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ElectricBoogaloo

S05.E03: The End of the Tour

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Well.  Charles sure ripped off the bandaid, didn't he.

Everyone's had their turn to be pissed at Liza for The Truth, so this is fair.  And she's not the one who told him about it, which makes it nice & soapy.  

Ehhhhh...Pauline.  You are what I thought you were.  Now go away.

Josh!!   NOOOO.  Absolutely not!  Go find someone else to serial monogamize over.

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50 minutes ago, voiceover said:

Well.  Charles sure ripped off the bandaid, didn't he.

Finally he takes some action.

Jake (or whatever that D.C. guy's name is) is playing with fire wanting Kelsey and Zane work on his book. Those two are competitors as well as colleagues.

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So the whole Jon Favreau/Jake Devereux thing - was that planned??  Does Favreau know about it?  It made me squee (love his podcast) - but it seems like he's either in on it or knows nothing about it.

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1 hour ago, voiceover said:

Well.  Charles sure ripped off the bandaid, didn't he.

Yeah, but he'll soften in time.  I hate to say it, but it's so predictable.  After all, Josh got over it too.  Charles is too in love with her not to cave after a while.  I know it's complicated and it'll probably get a lot worse before it gets better between them, but I think it's probably inevitable at some point.  I see a potential set-up with him seeing her "in secret" in the future.  That would be kind of hot.

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Hey @voiceover, Lauren’s been crashing with them since Kelsey realized she was living in the bathroom of the women’s club at which they were having the party for Pauline and her book (Kelsey saw Lauren and she ran and tried to hide when K called out to her). 

I don’t remember which ep it was specifically, but it’s relatively recent in the show’s timeline. I’m thinking it was towards the end of last season’s chaos that surrounded the book. 

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I was disappointed (though not totally surprised) when Dianna lied to Charles about whose idea it was to pretend the relationship was working for the book tour.  I was likewise disappointed that Pauline didn't say something about not keeping to Diana's script--I feel like they are adding on chances for Charles to pick at Liza for things, but that it won't be addressed later that it was Diana's idea.

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Lizzie McGuire is stuck having to choose between 2 guys: Quentin Coldwater (who I'm always shocked that he gets as much ass as he does) and Marcellus Gerard (who I'm always shocked that he never gets as much ass as he should). Always pick Marcel because he is burning this up the house down boots. Yes, he is. However in this show, pick neither. Zane is the worst even if he's played by Charles Michael Davis.

13 hours ago, Adultosaurus said:

So the whole Jon Favreau/Jake Devereux thing - was that planned??  Does Favreau know about it?  It made me squee (love his podcast) - but it seems like he's either in on it or knows nothing about it.

Jon probably didn't know, but Darren Star has never been shy or inclined to seek permission.

7 hours ago, Ailianna said:

I was disappointed (though not totally surprised) when Dianna lied to Charles about whose idea it was to pretend the relationship was working for the book tour.  I was likewise disappointed that Pauline didn't say something about not keeping to Diana's script--I feel like they are adding on chances for Charles to pick at Liza for things, but that it won't be addressed later that it was Diana's idea.

This really pissed me off. There is no way that Pauline could have started on her book tour without Charles' ok on that strategy. So Diana omitting the truth and implying that Pauline was the source of the lies was an asshole move.

Charles jumped to conclusions that Liza was the source of the lying strategy. His assumption doesn't even make sense considering that this was an Empirical book.

Fuck you Charles. As always there is a grown-up way of dealing with things and he uses the most passive aggressive way. But thank god we're finally moving forward on getting Liza's secret out.

Edited by HunterHunted
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wow, I didn't think they would have Charles confront Liza so early in the season. I hope that it helps them move the story forward and not have him sulking until the season finale.

LOL Kelsey  ... does she only find proper authors when they come with the option that she can jump their bones?

Zane? is he just there to irritate Kelsey? and Pauline? is she just there to irritate us?

Josh - yeah, whatever. Please get him out auf that Liza-hole, this has been going on for far too long now (PS: I never liked him)

Why are there no promos for the next episodes this season?

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I thought that they would drag out Charles knowing Liza's secret for most of the season so even though his confrontation with Liza was not a good look, at least he told her that he knows because I was not looking forward to weeks and weeks of "they don't know that we know they know we know" à la Friends.


So now the only main character who doesn't know Liza's secret is Diana. I feel like of everyone on the show, she will have the mildest reaction. It will probably be something along the lines of "Your age had nothing to do with what a terrible assistant you were at the beginning. You're still not that great. Why isn't my lunch here yet? Get back to work!"

I kept thinking that Quentin Coldwater's White House character was named Jack Devereux, which was the name of one of the characters on Days of Our Lives so I kept laughing until I realized that his character was actually named Jake, not Jack.

Marcel > Quentin > Zane (honestly, I had a hard time deciding who was worse between Zane and Quentin, but in the end I decided that as annoying as Quentin is, Zane will straight up stab you in the back)

Although I find Pauline extraneous, I did feel bad for her. Charles ended their relationship and then Diana advised her to tell people that they were still together. That sucks. On the plus side, at least she finally had a revelation and realized what was wrong with their marriage. Charles didn't deny any of what she said so I'm guessing that it's not entirely untrue.

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
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5 hours ago, cork dork said:

Hey @voiceover, Lauren’s been crashing with them since Kelsey realized she was living in the bathroom of the women’s club at which they were having the party for Pauline and her book (Kelsey saw Lauren and she ran and tried to hide when K called out to her). 

I don’t remember which ep it was specifically, but it’s relatively recent in the show’s timeline. I’m thinking it was towards the end of last season’s chaos that surrounded the book. 

Yes!! Thanks!!  I completely forgot that incident.

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48 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

On the plus side, at least she finally had a revelation and realized what was wrong with their marriage. Charles didn't deny any of what she said so I'm guessing that it's not entirely untrue.

Yeah, but it was so unrealistic that she chose to say what she did to Charles at that moment, in front of Liza, and in front of the crowd which was probably still looking at her...and it was also so unrealistic that Charles stared so intently at Liza while saying what he did.  Depending on how hurt or angry Pauline still is, she could use the info that she clearly just figured out, to ruin Charles and maybe Empirical, all while her book sales would probably go through the roof.

Also, when Charles mentioned wanting to talk with Liza after the book tour (prior to their blow-up), she seemed totally fine waiting how ever many weeks that would be.  It's just so stilted that after finding out for sure that his marriage is over, she'd be fine waiting that long to even have a personal conversation with this guy that she's so gaga over.

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4 hours ago, Aulty said:

Zane? is he just there to irritate Kelsey?

I know. In theory I don't think it's a bad idea for Kelsey to have a professional rival, but I'm always surprised Zane isn't stroking his mustache. They've made him such a cartoon.

3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

So now the only main character who doesn't know Liza's secret is Diana. I feel like of everyone on the show, she will have the mildest reaction. It will probably be something along the lines of "Your age had nothing to do with what a terrible assistant you were at the beginning. You're still not that great. Why isn't my lunch here yet? Get back to work!"

I hope that's her reaction. There should be one person who doesn't clutch her pearls over Liza's lie. Diana is certainly pragmatic enough to understand why Liza would do it, and Diana is all about being good at one's job. Liza is definitely good at her job.

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4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

So now the only main character who doesn't know Liza's secret is Diana.

Lauren doesn't know yet, does she? I don't think she qualifies as "main" but Diana doesn't really either.

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I hope this is the end of the Pauline storyline. Or at least, less appearances for JW. She just has that weird affect in her speech when she tries to emphasize something as truly emotional or noble. It bothers the crap out of me. A better actress would have made Pauline a little more bearable. 

2 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

I hope that's her reaction. There should be one person who doesn't clutch her pearls over Liza's lie. Diana is certainly pragmatic enough to understand why Liza would do it, and Diana is all about being good at one's job. Liza is definitely good at her job.

I hope so too. I don't mind Diana being mildly upset. Who wouldn't be upset about being lied to? But Diana has shown to be the most pragmatic and practical character so far, and I think her taking on the mentor role for Liza will help her understand why she did what she did. And I don't think it would be totally out of character for her to understand what Liza did. Over the seasons she has shown to tell Liza (and even Kelsey at times), to take care of themselves, not depend on a man, be financially independent, grab on all opportunities in front of you because they disappear as you get older, especially for women, fight off sexual harassment, etc. It will not be a total 180 for her character.

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11 hours ago, Aulty said:

Why are there no promos for the next episodes this season?

They show them after the episodes on my station. I watch right on TVland. That’s strange that not everyone would see them! 

Edited by srpturtle80 · Reason: clarity is my friend :)

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I think that, logically, Diana will have a pragmatic reaction, and will understand why a woman would lie about her age in order to further her career.  It's not that much of a stretch to imagine that Diana has shaved off a year or two here or there as time when on either.  And I think she will be the one to explain it so that Charles understands why Liza did it, and that it isn't some inherent dishonesty, but desperation and the only chance to get where she was trying so very hard to get.  But I do want to see her initial conversation with Liza when she finds out.  And I would kind of like Liza to confess to her.

Although if Charles tells Diana in an effort to win her to his side for some reason, I would love for her to think it was no big deal, since the work she's done, the sacrifices she's made for the company, and the things she has brought in mean more than her age.

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I think that, logically, Diana will have a pragmatic reaction, and will understand why a woman would lie about her age in order to further her career.  It's not that much of a stretch to imagine that Diana has shaved off a year or two here or there as time when on either.  And I think she will be the one to explain it so that Charles understands why Liza did it, and that it isn't some inherent dishonesty, but desperation and the only chance to get where she was trying so very hard to get.  But I do want to see her initial conversation with Liza when she finds out.  And I would kind of like Liza to confess to her.

I think Diana will have a pragmatic reaction because she isn't as personally invested in Liza as Josh, Kelsey or Charles were and she's about a thousand times cooler than all of them.  Part of me hopes Diana sees it as a bonding moment, presses a button on her desk that opens a closet full of statement necklaces and she offers one to Liza as part of a 40-something woman bonding ritual.  

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1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

I think Diana will have a pragmatic reaction because she isn't as personally invested in Liza as Josh, Kelsey or Charles were and she's about a thousand times cooler than all of them.  Part of me hopes Diana sees it as a bonding moment, presses a button on her desk that opens a closet full of statement necklaces and she offers one to Liza as part of a 40-something woman bonding ritual.  

Oh that would be awesome lol. 

I agree that Diana may have a less visceral reaction because, while I think she might actually like Liza, she is not as emotionally attached to her as the others are. 

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Pauline can leave now. I feel no sympathy for her. She needs to step up and take some responsibility for her marriage failing. It's a two way street and you don't get to abandon your kids and husband for months and then waltz back in and be all hey we are meant to be together!

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Plus, if Charles were really so terrible, why would she want to get back with him so bad?  I think that speech from her had more to do with him saying it wasn't going to happen than it did with their actual marriage.  She put just enough truth in to make Charles feel guilty, but didn't put in everything.

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5 hours ago, Ailianna said:

Plus, if Charles were really so terrible, why would she want to get back with him so bad?  I think that speech from her had more to do with him saying it wasn't going to happen than it did with their actual marriage.  She put just enough truth in to make Charles feel guilty, but didn't put in everything.

Yeah, they have not really fleshed out Pauline's character or story enough for us to empathize. And I hate to pile on, but the actress is kind of awful. I don't recall seeing her in anything else, so I don't know if she is usually this way, but as others have said, her breathy voice and stilted delivery are just bad.

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On 6/20/2018 at 12:22 PM, dubbel zout said:

I know. In theory I don't think it's a bad idea for Kelsey to have a professional rival, but I'm always surprised Zane isn't stroking his mustache. They've made him such a cartoon.

Agreed, I'm sick of him and their competitiveness. He doesn't seem like a real person.

I was tickled by the Jon Favreau-like character as I am a Friend of the Pod. I saw on Twitter he responded saying "sounds like me except for the fact I would never be able to finish writing a book." LOL.

I'm glad Liza knows that Charles knows. I was fearing they'd draw it out all season. 

I saw a preview for next week after the episode. Looks like Christian Borle will guest star!

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On 6/21/2018 at 3:59 AM, Ailianna said:

Plus, if Charles were really so terrible, why would she want to get back with him so bad? 

Lots of people want their shitty exes back, even abusive ones. I'm not saying that Charles was a terrible husband or abusive, just that people are weird and often want to get back together with someone who makes them miserable. The reason cited on Jerry Springer back in the day was usually along the lines of "But I loooooooove him!" Logic isn't always utilized when it comes to relationships!

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Pauline never says she loves him though.  She actually never really gives a reason to be together, other than it "feels right."  And I get that people are often entirely stupid about whom they choose to be with, but in this case "right" seems like it really means "safe."

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21 hours ago, Gothish520 said:

Yeah, they have not really fleshed out Pauline's character or story enough for us to empathize. And I hate to pile on, but the actress is kind of awful. I don't recall seeing her in anything else, so I don't know if she is usually this way, but as others have said, her breathy voice and stilted delivery are just bad.

She is an awful actress. Hard to believe she was with Jon Hamm for 8 years! Or maybe it was longer. I never understood what he saw in her. 

Peter Hermann is married IRL to Mariska Hargitay. I never knew that. What a gorgeous couple. 

Back to the show. Josh needs to go away. They keep trying to find a place for him but his time is up. Who cares about this guy and his undying love for his soulmate Liza. Ugggh. 

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1 hour ago, bichonblitz said:

She is an awful actress. Hard to believe she was with Jon Hamm for 8 years! Or maybe it was longer. I never understood what he saw in her. 

Peter Hermann is married IRL to Mariska Hargitay. I never knew that. What a gorgeous couple. 

Back to the show. Josh needs to go away. They keep trying to find a place for him but his time is up. Who cares about this guy and his undying love for his soulmate Liza. Ugggh. 

Pauline is not the best actress at all. I remember way back in the day her big break-out was a movie Kissing Jessica Stein which I believe she also wrote and possibly directed. She was also in a pretty funny sitcom about being pregnant but it got canceled. So she's not terrible but she strikes me as someone who is more of an indie writer/actress than a soap actress. Plus, her current addiction to face fillers makes her look super weird. When will aging actresses learn that face fillers do not make you look young. They just make you look like a gelfling from the Dark Crystal. 

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4 hours ago, EdnasEdibles said:

Pauline is not the best actress at all. I remember way back in the day her big break-out was a movie Kissing Jessica Stein which I believe she also wrote and possibly directed. She was also in a pretty funny sitcom about being pregnant but it got canceled. So she's not terrible but she strikes me as someone who is more of an indie writer/actress than a soap actress. Plus, her current addiction to face fillers makes her look super weird. When will aging actresses learn that face fillers do not make you look young. They just make you look like a gelfling from the Dark Crystal. 

That reaction shot after Charles said he was blind to Liza was some really terrible acting.  I think Joey Tribbiani's "smell a fart acting" was better than that reaction shot. 

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I wish they'd made Pauline a little less apologetic for leaving Charles. I'm sure there are a lot of women in stale marriages who would love to leave but are too afraid of what people would think of them. I go to a gym on the UES and there are a ton of UES mommies who hang out there after classes and do nothing but bitch. They all seem so frazzled and stressed.  I think the gym is their sanctuary.

Dear god, please don't return to the Josh storyline. The show was so much better without it. It was always ridiculous that Josh took dating a 40 year old woman so seriously and vice versa.

Zane sucks. I'm glad they diversified the cast ever so slightly, but the character is just completely unnecessary.

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54 minutes ago, sashayshante said:

I wish they'd made Pauline a little less apologetic for leaving Charles.

Same here. I don't mind Pauline having second thoughts or regrets, but there's no shame in leaving a relationship that isn't working out. The show keeps painting Charles as some great catch, which on paper he is, but we've seen he's no emotional picnic to be with.

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11 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

Hard to believe she was with Jon Hamm for 8 years! Or maybe it was longer. I never understood what he saw in her. 

It was 18 years. She was part mom and part manager for Hamm. I also think his drinking just broke the relationship.

1 hour ago, sashayshante said:

I wish they'd made Pauline a little less apologetic for leaving Charles. I'm sure there are a lot of women in stale marriages who would love to leave but are too afraid of what people would think of them. I go to a gym on the UES and there are a ton of UES mommies who hang out there after classes and do nothing but bitch. They all seem so frazzled and stressed.  I think the gym is their sanctuary.

20 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Same here. I don't mind Pauline having second thoughts or regrets, but there's no shame in leaving a relationship that isn't working out. The show keeps painting Charles as some great catch, which on paper he is, but we've seen he's no emotional picnic to be with.

 

We've seen how passive aggressive and emotionally constipated Charles can be. I wish we saw Pauline driving the conversation between the two of them. The man won't talk unless you force him. It's a serious failing of his. He dithers and would have continued dithering in his marriage if Pauline hadn't left him. I just wish Pauline would turn to him and say "I had to leave because you couldn't or wouldn't talk about what wasn't working. I had to do something even if I wrecked our life."

Edited by HunterHunted
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2 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

We've seen how passive aggressive and emotionally constipated Charles can be.

What a great phrase...and so appropriate because during those emotional times when he's bottling things up, he even looks constipated!

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3 hours ago, sashayshante said:

Dear god, please don't return to the Josh storyline. The show was so much better without it. It was always ridiculous that Josh took dating a 40 year old woman so seriously and vice versa.

Is it just me or did the show seem to be chemistry-testing Josh and Lauren in this episode?

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8 hours ago, kariyaki said:

Is it just me or did the show seem to be chemistry-testing Josh and Lauren in this episode?

They definitely seemed to be chemistry-testing those two, which wouldn't be a bad pairing.

Quote

It was 18 years. She was part mom and part manager for Hamm. I also think his drinking just broke the relationship.

Absolutely. From the stories out there, it appears he's a mean son of a bitch when he drinks. I don't think he's changed from the days when he assaulted that pledge in college. He's still the same guy, which makes me sympathize for Westfield . She must have endured some serious emotional abuse from Hamm.

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13 hours ago, sashayshante said:

Dear god, please don't return to the Josh storyline. The show was so much better without it. It was always ridiculous that Josh took dating a 40 year old woman so seriously and vice versa.

Really! Also, he made it clear that he eventually wants kids. She made it clear she doesn't. That should be the end of the story. 

51 minutes ago, sashayshante said:

She must have endured some serious emotional abuse from Hamm.

And she stayed with him for 18 yrs? Wow. 

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Dear god, please don't return to the Josh storyline. The show was so much better without it. It was always ridiculous that Josh took dating a 40 year old woman so seriously and vice versa.

I don't know.  They seemed to have a mostly healthy relationship in general.  I don't think it should be defined in terms of age.  He said he was fine without kids, though it seems like he wants them.  I'm more confused by the fact that last season, right after they broke up, it was mostly fine with them being friends - like they didn't really care.  That was super bizarre to me...at least until the night before his wedding.  

 

I"m so glad they had Charles reveal that he knew.  I was on the cusp of 'out the door' if we had an entire season of bitchy Charles without the reveal.  

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All the Jon Hamm talk reminds me of when I read that the second choice to play Don Draper was...Peter Hermann!

I don't hate Liza/Josh, but I want to see her with Charles first.

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On 6/22/2018 at 4:30 AM, Ailianna said:

Pauline never says she loves him though.  She actually never really gives a reason to be together, other than it "feels right."  And I get that people are often entirely stupid about whom they choose to be with, but in this case "right" seems like it really means "safe."

She did.  Last season when she and Liza were having lunch discussing the book, she said she loved Charles.  That she was mad about him. Then asked if Liza could understand that. Cue awkward moment, Liza gulping and saying "Yes, I can"

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16 hours ago, traveladdie said:

She did.  Last season when she and Liza were having lunch discussing the book, she said she loved Charles.  That she was mad about him. Then asked if Liza could understand that. Cue awkward moment, Liza gulping and saying "Yes, I can"

Although did she ever say it to him?!?! I would think that would be the first thing to say!

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On ‎6‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 9:17 PM, kariyaki said:

Is it just me or did the show seem to be chemistry-testing Josh and Lauren in this episode?

That would be a refreshing development.  I mostly like this show, but I'm so bored with the Liza/Charles/Josh storylines.  A Josh-Lauren fling could be fun for a change.  I'd also like to see some new storylines for Maggie and Diana. 

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I watched this and couldn't help thinking "You're just upset because your fantasy 27 year-old subordinate is actually age-appropriate?" Yes, he should fire her or let her resign before they start dating. Yes, if he got away from the fact that he's not with some hotty half his age, he'd understand why she did what she did and why she was absolutely not able to tell her boss/owner of the company about it.

Sorry, he really annoys me as a character even though he's 99% going to be endgame. When Josh turned up, I suddenly relaxed into the show.

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I just laughed when I recognized the "Jon Favreau" character being interviewed by a "Trevor Noah" character and saying the exact same thing he'd done on the actual show.  :D

Annoyed at Charles. So, his fantasy 27-year old isn't 27.... and...???

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Jake Deveraux? Oh my God, do NOT tell me they tried to write a Jon Favreau character into the universe of this dumb show. Also, I really hope Kelsey doesn't get involved with him because it's a bad look if every time she gets a male author, she ends up sleeping with him. 

Pauline being messy on her book tour is not funny but I'm also not emotionally invested. Why is this happening?

What is Kelsey doing? Charles told them to work together. They got the go ahead. Why is she trying to sabotage it and claim the writer for herself? 

Oh my God, Charles' shady comments are endless. At least the truth is out there between them now. Maybe the comments will stop.

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