Super Social Analysis: Gender, Race, Ethnicity, and LGBT in Movies

[methodwriter85]

I don't know, I think her features are pretty close to Euro and some make-up and a good wig would help.

Gugu M'Batha-Raw would have been good for a passing movie, I think.

Too bad it's not the mid-90's. They could have gotten Vanessa Williams and Jasmine Guy. Although knowing Hollywood, they have cast Mira Sorvino and Laura San Giacomo and called it a day.

[VCRTracking]

I can think of an actress, but she's busy going out to fancy receptions and parades and meeting dignitaries around the world with with her new husband.

Edited August 8, 2018 by VCRTracking

[JessePinkman]

18 hours ago, Dejana said:

I downloaded the story last year but found it hard to get into. With this news, I read the Wikipedia summary and

  Reveal hidden contents

there's an ambiguous conclusion: the heroine is found out and falls from a skyscraper to her death, but did she jump or was she pushed, and for the latter, was it her awful bigot husband or her frenemy, convinced her own husband was having an affair with her bestie?

In the right hands it could be really melodramatic and one of those hotly debated movie endings.

And I hope this isn't taken the wrong way, but is it bad that I kind of wish this is been made 10 years ago with, IDK, Maya Rudolph and Rashida Jones? I am just thinking of how they are going to make Tessa Thompson look like someone who does/could go through life passing for white and am imagining a really regrettable makeup job. 

Ruth Negga is the one passing for white, which is much more believable to me.

[Dejana]

5 hours ago, JessePinkman said:

Ruth Negga is the one passing for white, which is much more believable to me.

In the book, they both could pass for white (and are assumed to be white by others at different points), but only one does: a two sides of the coin, "road not taken" sort of thing. But an adaptation can easily make a few story changes.

[JessePinkman]

1 hour ago, Dejana said:

In the book, they both could pass for white (and are assumed to be white by others at different points), but only one does: a two sides of the coin, "road not taken" sort of thing. But an adaptation can easily make a few story changes.

Ah. Yeah, that's gonna be hard to pull off.

[starri]

Trick, a relatively inoffensive little movie with supporting performances from Miss Coco Peru and a surprisingly good Tori Spelling, is getting a sequel 20 years later.  I just hope the guys actually get to do it this time.

It BURNS!

[Luckylyn]

1 hour ago, starri said:

Trick, a relatively inoffensive little movie with supporting performances from Miss Coco Peru and a surprisingly good Tori Spelling, is getting a sequel 20 years later.  I just hope the guys actually get to do it this time.

It BURNS!

I’m so excited but weary too.

[methodwriter85]

I wonder if they'll make the guys conform to current gay standards- beard, precision buzzcut, tattoo, and a lumberjack costume.

[starri]

58 minutes ago, methodwriter85 said:

I wonder if they'll make the guys conform to current gay standards- beard, precision buzzcut, tattoo, and a lumberjack costume.

As a shaved-headed, beard-having, tattooed gay man who owns more than one flannel shirt, I might be on board with that...

[Bastet]

4 hours ago, starri said:

Trick, a relatively inoffensive little movie with supporting performances from Miss Coco Peru and a surprisingly good Tori Spelling, is getting a sequel 20 years later.

I don't remember much about it, other than I liked it and I had no idea Tori Spelling could act, so I'll have to re-watch it and then keep an eye out for the sequel.  Thanks for the heads-up.

[starri]

11 hours ago, Bastet said:

I don't remember much about it, other than I liked it and I had no idea Tori Spelling could act, so I'll have to re-watch it and then keep an eye out for the sequel.  Thanks for the heads-up.

It appears the DVD is out of print, and the only place that even has it for rent is iTunes.  I'd like to see if I like it as much as I remember.

I do remember being frustrated that the guys didn't even kiss until the very end.

[methodwriter85]

On 8/11/2018 at 10:02 PM, starri said:

As a shaved-headed, beard-having, tattooed gay man who owns more than one flannel shirt, I might be on board with that...

I don't know, I kind of miss the clean-shaven era of candy-color polo shirts with coordinating flip-flops and cute bedhead-achieved-with-gel looks. Of course, that wasn't the era of the first Trick, either. We're talking Eating Out 1/Mulligans era for that.

 

On 8/3/2018 at 7:38 PM, starri said:

 There are exceptions to that, of course, but it seems like I only truly buy it when at least half of the pair is actually gay.  I was watching the wrap-up movie for Looking, which was 50/50 in terms of the stars, and it just kind of clicked for me that it's the X factor that makes me actually buy something.

Probably the best straight boy/straight boy chemistry I've ever seen was Wes Ramsey and the former actor formerly known as Steve Sandvoss. They just had it, to the point where I was shocked to learn years later that Wes Ramsey is straight.

Armie Hammer and Timmy C were also pretty great.

To be honest, I feel like I was never convinced by the love story in Brokeback Mountain, and maybe it's what you're saying here, Both of the actors were straight, and they were friends...but I don't know, I never really got into Brokeback Mountain and maybe that's why.

[Unusual Suspect]

On 8/13/2018 at 1:11 AM, methodwriter85 said:

Probably the best straight boy/straight boy chemistry I've ever seen was Wes Ramsey and the former actor formerly known as Steve Sandvoss. They just had it, to the point where I was shocked to learn years later that Wes Ramsey is straight.

Armie Hammer and Timmy C were also pretty great.

Agreed, I think it's quite possible for two straight actors to have good chemistry, and I think the lack of that has more to do with ... the niche quality and low budget of most queer themed movies in past years. I also liked the two leads in Shelter, and I could also name a few TV queer couples that have great chemistry despite being portrayed by straight actors.

Why I want more queer roles for queer actors, is that I simply want more queer actors to get more roles, in general. I don't like pigeon-holing actors so that they can only play their sexual identity.

[Silver Raven]

There's a major flap going on now over straight actor Jack Whitehall being cast as the first openly gay character in a Disney movie, in the upcoming Jungle Cruise movie.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

1 hour ago, Unusual Suspect said:

I don't like pigeon-holing actors so that they can only play their sexual identity.

 

1 hour ago, Silver Raven said:

There's a major flap going on now over straight actor Jack Whitehall being cast as the first openly gay character in a Disney movie, in the upcoming Jungle Cruise movie.

Oh, irony.

[Wynterwolf]

1 hour ago, Silver Raven said:

There's a major flap going on now over straight actor Jack Whitehall being cast as the first openly gay character in a Disney movie, in the upcoming Jungle Cruise movie.

I think particularly because the character is described as 'femme' and 'campy', there is (completely justifiable, based on vast past experience) concern that if this character is being creating through a solely straight lens (behind and in front of the camera), the possibility that it will be problematic is high.  Hopefully they approach this respectfully and will go though some sort of extensive sensitivity testing with the queer community before they release a finished product.  

[Unusual Suspect]

4 hours ago, Silver Raven said:

There's a major flap going on now over straight actor Jack Whitehall being cast as the first openly gay character in a Disney movie, in the upcoming Jungle Cruise movie.

... I'm willing to imagine he's gay.

[Silver Raven]

Asian people react to the trailer for Crazy, Rich Asians.

[UYI]

A very touching article in Vox by an Asian-American journalist on what a movie like Crazy Rich Asians means to her:

 

https://www.vox.com/first-person/2018/8/8/17662164/crazy-rich-asians-movie-premiere

Edited August 16, 2018 by UYI

[UYI]

[methodwriter85]

For some reason I'm thinking about the new Mission Impossible, and if Tom Cruise had to wear compression shorts to keep himself from being "too excited" due to being in close proximity to Henry Cavill.

(I remember there being a really funny rumor on General Hospital that Jacob Young and Colton Scott who were playing brothers had to stop scenes and adjust themselves because they were so turned on. Although Henry likes 'em young, so I'm not sure he'd switch teams for Cruise.)

Anyway, with summer winding to a close, I had to rep "Were the World Mine" again. I love Shakespeare, and this was such a fun modern (well, 2008) gay take on it.

[Luckylyn]

I adore Were the World Mine.  The music and the story work so well 

[Unusual Suspect]

23 hours ago, Luckylyn said:

I adore Were the World Mine.  The music and the story work so well 

Same. I do wish the movie had more of a middle, too much time before the pansy got into the picture. More shenanigans.

[arc]

To All The Boys I’ve Loved Before didn’t get traction at first because nearly every prodco wanted to whitewash the lead character: 

Quote

 

Even before the book came out in 2014, there was interest in making a movie. But the interest died as soon as I made it clear the lead had to be Asian-American. One producer said to me, as long as the actress captures the spirit of the character, age and race don’t matter. I said, well, her spirit is Asian-American. That was the end of that.

[…]

I ended up deciding to work with the only production company that agreed the main character would be played by an Asian actress. No one else was willing to do it. Still, I was holding my breath all the way up until shooting began because I was scared they would change their minds. They didn’t.

 

[methodwriter85]

I'm pretty positive the only reason Eleanor and Park hasn't been made yet is because the lead is supposed to be a chunky redhead and the love interest is supposed to be half-Vietnamese.

[PepSinger]

13 hours ago, arc said:

One producer said to me, as long as the actress captures the spirit of the character, age and race don’t matter. I said, well, her spirit is Asian-American. That was the end of that.

Of course they say then when trying to white wash a character. It never works in the opposite direction.

[raezen]

16 hours ago, arc said:

But the interest died as soon as I made it clear the lead had to be Asian-American. One producer said to me, as long as the actress captures the spirit of the character, age and race don’t matter. I said, well, her spirit is Asian-American. That was the end of that.

Good for her. Producers will say things like that to a writer's face but the casting call will say Caucasian actresses are needed. 

[Athena]

Same thing happened to Crazy Rich Asians. An early producer suggested that the female lead Rachel Chu should be Caucasian. The author Kevin Kwan vehemently rejected it and only worked with producers that would be true to the characters from the books.

[Joe]

In other news, Kelly Marie Tran speaks up about the harassment she's taken. Just WTF is wrong with people? Oh, I don't like her. I'd better make her life hell for daring not to be a white man in a piece of fiction.

Also, in this context, how do you pronounce Loan?

[SnoGirl]

22 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

I'm pretty positive the only reason Eleanor and Park hasn't been made yet is because the lead is supposed to be a chunky redhead and the love interest is supposed to be half-Vietnamese.

I hope like crazy that Rainbow Rowell has been holding back on a movie is bc she’s waiting for producers who will make a movie with an actual chunky female lead and a half Vietnamese lead (I’m looking at you Love, Simon. Katherine Langford is not chunky like Leah was written in the books). And I’m also hoping because of Black Panther, Crazy Rich Asians and To all the Boys I’ve Loved, a true version of Eleanor and Park will be coming soon. I love Eleanor and Park.

[methodwriter85]

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Shannon Purser's new Netflix movie coming up is actually decent because I have fancast her so hard as Eleanor, but I don't know yet if she can handle a lead role.

[VCRTracking]

6 hours ago, Joe said:

In other news, Kelly Marie Tran speaks up about the harassment she's taken. Just WTF is wrong with people? Oh, I don't like her. I'd better make her life hell for daring not to be a white man in a piece of fiction.

Also, in this context, how do you pronounce Loan?

[Joe]

1 hour ago, VCRTracking said:

Low On is fine by me. I'm the kind of person who tries to pronounce Saladin correctly. Sal Ah Deen, I think. :)

[topanga]

On 8/21/2018 at 9:36 AM, Athena said:

Same thing happened to Crazy Rich Asians. An early producer suggested that the female lead Rachel Chu should be Caucasian. The author Kevin Kwan vehemently rejected it and only worked with producers that would be true to the characters from the books.

Someone actually said that with a straight face?

[Athena]

19 minutes ago, topanga said:

Someone actually said that with a straight face?

It's the "Hollywood logic" that cast Johansson in Ghost in the Shell.

From the Hollywood Reporter:

Quote

Before going with Color Force, Kwan fielded pitches that included turning his heroine into a 
white woman; "It's a pity you don't have a white character," he was told by one producer.

[ChelseaNH]

Reading the articles about Crazy Rich Asians, the whole "Asians are unattractive" thing caught me by surprise.  Sure, everyone's got their own eye, but you've never seen a handsome Asian man?  'Cause I sure have.

[Dee]

That was really brave of Kelly Marie Tran. Bravo.

[JustaPerson]

I loved Rainbow Rowell's other novel, Fangirl but I'm hesitant to read Eleanor and Park because I read some criticisms from asian-americans of the way it depicted Park (who's half Korean, not Vietnamese) and his family. 

[Silver Raven]

Israel Broussard, one of the co-stars of To All The Boys I've Loved Before, is being dragged on social media for his racist and homophobic posts and likes.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/to-all-the-boys-ive-loved-before-star-israel-broussard-outed-for-racist-homophobic-tweets-and-likes-2?ref=home

Edited August 23, 2018 by Silver Raven

[methodwriter85]

Well, damn. There goes the crush I had on him from Happy Death Day.

*To be noted though, he did actually play a gay role in The Bling Ring about three years after that Tweet, although we never see him do anything with a guy.

[starri]

Apparently, the role of Ariel is Zendaya's if she wants it.  I've only seen her in Spider-Man: Homecoming, but I did like her in that.

I'm assuming that the usual corners of the internet will be howling over casting a biracial actress in the part.

[Spartan Girl]

2 hours ago, starri said:

Apparently, the role of Ariel is Zendaya's if she wants it.  I've only seen her in Spider-Man: Homecoming, but I did like her in that.

I'm assuming that the usual corners of the internet will be howling over casting a biracial actress in the part.

I think she'll be a fine Ariel. But I am so not looking forward to the racist trolling that's sure to follow. Especially after what those subhumans did to the actress that's going to play Batwoman...

[ancslove]

My knee-jerk reaction is that Zendaya is too old to play a sixteen year old, but then my brain kicks in and reminds me that a) Shake It Up was after, instead of current with High School Musical and b) aging Ariel up (or letting me pretend that Ariel has been aged up) is a good thing!

[Trini]

10 minutes ago, ancslove said:

My knee-jerk reaction is that Zendaya is too old to play a sixteen year old,

Isn't this the age she plays in Spider-man: Homecoming ?

[starri]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

I think she'll be a fine Ariel. But I am so not looking forward to the racist trolling that's sure to follow. Especially after what those subhumans did to the actress that's going to play Batwoman...

Wasn't the complaint about Ruby Rose that she wasn't gay ENOUGH?

I swear, nothing makes anyone happy.  Ever.

[ancslove]

1 hour ago, Trini said:

Isn't this the age she plays in Spider-man: Homecoming ?

Hell, you're right!  I was thinking of her in The Greatest Showman, where she seemed to be playing a 20-something.

[methodwriter85]

4 hours ago, starri said:

Wasn't the complaint about Ruby Rose that she wasn't gay ENOUGH?

I swear, nothing makes anyone happy.  Ever.

Also, because she's not Jewish. Because gentiles can't possibly play Jews, given that they're a race! (Seriously though, did they even get how racist that sounded?)

Edited August 24, 2018 by methodwriter85

[Zuleikha]

Quote

Also, because she's not Jewish. Because gentiles can't possibly play Jews, given that they're a race! (Seriously though, did they even get how racist that sounded?)

No, that wasn't racist. Those critiques were primarily driven by us, Ashkenazi Jews. And we are increasingly fed up with the way the social justice movement erases our identity, is complicit in our marginalization, and consistently talks over us when we point out problems.

While Jews are not a monolith in any way shape or form, so I'm sure there are many (perhaps you?) who feel just fine with the casting and the general casting of non-Jewish actresses as Jewish women, there are also many of us who are tired of not seeing ourselves in Jewish characters, particularly young Jewish female characters. Ashkenazi IS a specific ethnicity. It is not racist to respect and acknowledge our lived experience. 

I've spent my whole life having strangers interrogate me about what I am; I don't need Ruby Rose or her rosary and cross tattoos misrepresenting us.

I may not understand the issue with whether she's lesbian enough, but as I understand it, Ruby Rose literally does not identify as a woman. I don't think it's this irrational thing for lesbians to be upset that a genderfluid actor was cast, given that the casting was very specifically for a lesbian. 
 

Edited August 24, 2018 by Zuleikha

[Spartan Girl]

What IS irrational is viciously harassing Ruby Rose online over it.

[Zuleikha]

I'm not on Twitter and none of the articles  I read about it actually quoted any examples of harassment. So  I don't know if she was actually harassed, or if the fact that there was pushback is being deemed harassment.

And even if there was some actual line crossing harassment that is still no justification for invalidating Jewish feelings about our own identities and representation or lesbian 's feelings about the same.