Super Social Analysis: Gender, Race, Ethnicity, and LGBT in Movies

[Scarlett45]

13 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

As a mixed person I thought it was so exciting to actually have a biracial character onscreen.... but the actor who is playing Lara Jean is NOT biracial.  She's full Vietnamese.  The actors playing her sisters definitely look biracial, and I feel like she doesn't look related to them at all.

It would have been easy to solve this problem.  Either hire a biracial actor, or simply make the character fully Asian.  I don't know why they insisted the movie be this way.

I fully respect and understand as a biracial person wanting to see biracial actors on your screen, (and they should be hired and allowed to play as such); but biracial people “look” all kinds of ways, so I disagree that Laura Jean didn’t look like she could be related to her sisters. Out of the 3 girls casting 2 that were actually biracial showed some self awareness on the part of the casting agents. Of course I understand that it’s not good enough!

On the flip side. Also I find with ethnic minorities they make them biracial to make them more acceptable to a white audience-as a black woman who’s not biracial I get annoyed when every light skinned black character is biracial! Every single one. We need stories that embrace diverse characters for themselves, not to make them “less ethnic” which I feel is a slap in the face to biracial people. 

[methodwriter85]

Honestly though? I come from a bi-racial Asian/German-American family. Two sisters completely pass for white. One looks bi-racial with Caucasian facial features and a deep tan. I look Mexican even though I'm Filipino..  Genetic phenotypes are a funny thing especially when it comes to mixed ethnicity.

On the flip side, Henry Golding's character in Crazy Rich Asians is not bi-racial even though he is.

Quote

On the flip side. Also I find with ethnic minorities they make them biracial to make them more acceptable to a white audience-as a black woman who’s not biracial I get annoyed when every light skinned black character is biracial! Every single one. We need stories that embrace diverse characters for themselves, not to make them “less ethnic” which I feel is a slap in the face to biracial people. 

I'm going to admit, when I was watching BlackkKlansmen, I rolled my eyes at the speech about having black features and black beauty that doesn't look like the whites as dark-skinned black faces get closeups. Because RIGHT behind the guy giving the speech was the light-skinned bi-racial beauty with an Afro-wig on playing the eventual love interest of the main guy. I don't begrude Laura Harrier for wanting to work given that she only started acting professionally 5 years ago but I thought that was jarringly tone-deaf on Spike Lee, especially given that he has addressed colorism in his films in the past.

Edited September 21, 2018 by methodwriter85

[aradia22]

@JessePinkman I had to look it up because I missed whatever was happening. I don't really follow movies through the production process anymore, especially if I think I'm going to see the movie because all those trailers and BTS info and interviews can sometimes ruin the surprises. 

I'm conflicted because while I appreciate them restoring her features and skin tone to some degree (though she looks oddly red?) I like the idea that in what looks like a sleepover scene, she let her natural hair be natural. I would have liked it if they had made it look more like natural hair and less like perfect curls instead of eliminating that scene which is what it seems like they did from the article I read. It would actually be nice to see more of the princesses with relaxed hair styles in that scene the way Frozen let us see Anna's real "I woke up like this" look. But less like a joke and more like... yeah, even princesses don't look made up (as in makeup, hair styling, etc.) all the time. I prefer 2D animation but one of the positives of CGI is the texture.

 

[Silver Raven]

Quote

On the flip side, Henry Golding's character in Crazy Rich Asians is not bi-racial even though he is.

How do we know he isn't bi-racial?  We see his Chinese mother, but not his father, and his last name is Townsend.

[JustaPerson]

1 hour ago, Silver Raven said:

How do we know he isn't bi-racial?  We see his Chinese mother, but not his father, and his last name is Townsend.

I think you're confusing his character in Crazy Rich Asians with his character in A Simple Favor. In CRA, his name is Nick Young. He's definitely supposed to be full asian. There was even backlash when he was cast because he is biracial and the character is meant to be full asian. 

Edited September 21, 2018 by JustaPerson

[Ms Blue Jay]

9 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

but biracial people “look” all kinds of ways

I do know this.  You don't have to mansplain my multiracialness back to me. I could tell immediately that Lana Candor was not biracial so it took me out of the story.  

@JustaPerson is correct.  Sean Townsend is in A Simple Favour with an ambiguous background.  Nick Young is in Crazy Rich Asians and is meant to be full Singaporean/Chinese.  

I'm realizing now that ASF is also based on a book, but no clue if Sean Townsend's ethnicity is named in there.

Edited September 22, 2018 by Ms Blue Jay

[Scarlett45]

6 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I do know this.  You don't have to mansplain my multiracialness back to me. I could tell immediately that Lana Candor was not biracial so it took me out of the story.  We can often recognize our 'own'.  Mixed people have stopped me on the street to talk to me about my background. 

@JustaPerson is correct.  Sean Townsend is A Simple Favour with an ambiguous background.  Nick Young is in Crazy Rich Asians and is meant to be full Singaporean/Chinese.  

 

I wasn’t trying to mansplain to you. I’m sorry if it came off that way. I wasn’t taken out of the story by Lana Candor’s appearance, although I did appreciate that they cast bi-racial Asian actresses as her sisters rather than white actresses that looked like John Cobert.

Yes, Henry Golding is biracial and has portrayed a full Singaporean/Chinese character in Crazy Rich Asian- @JustaPerson I do remember the backlash which I thought was silly. Especially given how hard minority actors have to fight for roles, not wanting someone cast for such a reason is petty- TO ME. 

Edited September 22, 2018 by Scarlett45

[twoods]

I wonder if they tried to hire a biracial actress to play Lara Jean, but that chemistry was just too good between Lana and Noah to pass up. My nieces are biracial, and two look like it while the third looks 100% Vietnamese so it didn’t take me out of the movie (plus, did I mention the fantastic chemistry?). The actress on the cover of the books is biracial, and I’m hoping that there are more scenes in the next movie that show some of the Korean traditions that the dad kept that were portrayed in the book.

Edited September 22, 2018 by twoods

[aradia22]

Quote

I do remember the backlash which I thought was silly. Especially given how hard minority actors have to fight for roles, not wanting someone cast for such a reason is petty- TO ME. 

I do understand it because it's like saying someone with more Western/Caucasian/European features is more attractive. It gets even more complicated when you're talking about specific ethnic groups that have experienced that kind of ranking like when they'll hire a black actress but they go for one who is lighter skinned and has a smaller nose and smaller lips. 

I haven't watched Crazy Rich Asians yet, but to me Henry Golding looks more Filipino than Chinese. 

[Raja]

58 minutes ago, aradia22 said:

I do understand it because it's like saying someone with more Western/Caucasian/European features is more attractive. It gets even more complicated when you're talking about specific ethnic groups that have experienced that kind of ranking like when they'll hire a black actress but they go for one who is lighter skinned and has a smaller nose and smaller lips. 

I haven't watched Crazy Rich Asians yet, but to me Henry Golding looks more Filipino than Chinese. 

Which makes since if the wiki is correct and his mother is from the Iban people of Malaysia and no direct  Chinese ancestry.  

[Scarlett45]

10 hours ago, aradia22 said:

I do understand it because it's like saying someone with more Western/Caucasian/European features is more attractive. It gets even more complicated when you're talking about specific ethnic groups that have experienced that kind of ranking like when they'll hire a black actress but they go for one who is lighter skinned and has a smaller nose and smaller lips. 

I haven't watched Crazy Rich Asians yet, but to me Henry Golding looks more Filipino than Chinese. 

Yes you’re right. Colorism in Hollywood (and the world) is a real thing. It seems that studios will do anything to white wash characters so telling actors “well you don’t look ethnic ENOUGH” is another silly excuse not to give them roles. Especially since most biracial actors (most not all) will not be hired to play white characters.

 

10 hours ago, twoods said:

My nieces are biracial, and two look like it while the third looks 100% Vietnamese so it didn’t take me out of the movie (plus, did I mention the fantastic chemistry?).

That’s what I was getting at above. Ditto. Noah and Laura sold it, and the photo that got snapped of them backstage showed it wasn’t fake (not insinuating anything tawdry was going on- but they are both single adults so whatever), they were cuddling out of character. 

So often in media Asian women are presented as sexual fetishes for white men, here we have a teen girl figuring things out and standing up for herself, enjoying her family relationships & getting the guy in the end. It’s a positive representation. 

[Apprentice79]

20 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

I'm going to admit, when I was watching BlackkKlansmen, I rolled my eyes at the speech about having black features and black beauty that doesn't look like the whites as dark-skinned black faces get closeups. Because RIGHT behind the guy giving the speech was the light-skinned bi-racial beauty with an Afro-wig on playing the eventual love interest of the main guy. I don't begrude Laura Harrier for wanting to work given that she only started acting professionally 5 years ago but I thought that was jarringly tone-deaf on Spike Lee, especially given that he has addressed colorism in his films in the past.

I had no problem with Laura Harrier being in the movie. I had no idea that she was biracial, until I read your post.  There are plenty of Black girls walking the earth who look like her who are not mixed race.   I don't think her casting was ironic due to Spike Lee addressing colorism in his movies in the past. 

Edited September 22, 2018 by Apprentice79

[Athena]

22 hours ago, twoods said:

I wonder if they tried to hire a biracial actress to play Lara Jean, but that chemistry was just too good between Lana and Noah to pass up. My nieces are biracial, and two look like it while the third looks 100% Vietnamese so it didn’t take me out of the movie (plus, did I mention the fantastic chemistry?). The actress on the cover of the books is biracial, and I’m hoping that there are more scenes in the next movie that show some of the Korean traditions that the dad kept that were portrayed in the book.

I read an interview with the director who said that when Lana came in, she captured the character better than the others who auditioned. Having read the books, I agree with that. I think they did perfect casting with Lana and Noah. While Noah doesn't look like how I thought Peter would look, he captures a lot of the character's charm which matters. Also: chemistry. 

[aradia22]

Quote

It seems that studios will do anything to white wash characters so telling actors “well you don’t look ethnic ENOUGH” is another silly excuse not to give them roles. Especially since most biracial actors (most not all) will not be hired to play white characters.

I didn't know that about Golding. I don't think it's silly to say you're not the right ethnicity and close enough is not good enough when you keep trying to make us interchangeable. Iranian is not Indian or Egyptian or Colombian or Greek, etc. Malaysian is not Chinese or Vietnamese or Korean or Japanese, etc. And just because some people can't see the difference it doesn't mean everyone can't and it shows a disrespect towards those audiences. 

[galax-arena]

I was watching a clip from a couple of years ago featuring Molly Ringwald and Ally Sheedy reminiscing over The Breakfast Club. Molly said she wasn't really on board with a straight-up remake - she said she thinks Hollywood could do a movie inspired by TBC instead - because, as much as the movie spoke to a lot of people, in hindsight the movie is "so incredibly white." lmao I liked that. She obviously has fond feelings for the movie but is also self-aware enough to point out the lack of diversity. I think a lot of people could take a leaf from her book when it comes to talking about classic movies. 

(I wonder what she thinks about Bender's harassment towards Claire nowadays. But I digress.)

Re: biracial actors being told that they're not ethnic enough, or asian actors being told that they're not the exact right ethnicity - as a Korean, for the most part I don't give a shit if another East Asian is cast as a Korean. If Asians had to wait for roles written for their exact ethnic group, many wouldn't be working at all. There are some exceptions, of course - if you're making a movie about comfort women, maybe don't cast a Japanese actress. If you're making a movie about a real Korean person, cast a Korean. If you're making a movie about an important Korean folk hero, cast a Korean. (Similarly: As much as I like Jamie Chung, I think a Chinese actress should have played Mulan in OUAT.) And don't cast an East Asian as a South Asian or Southeast Asian, or vice versa. 

But about biracial actors being told that they're not ethnic enough, well, I think it's telling that almost all of the biracial actors we talk about when this conversation comes up are part white. And that's what people have an issue with. Of course their whiteness is working to their advantage! When Hollywood casts biracial actors in Asian roles, they're not casting actors like Sydney Park (Black/Korean). So I don't think this is a case of mean poc excluding biracial people, it's about recognizing that Hollywood thinks it's being slick by specifically casting biracial people who are part white in roles that aren't supposed to be white at all. Wake me up when Sydney is cast in a role for a Korean character. 

ETA: As a digression, I think it's weird that some people think that Lucy Liu must be biracial because "Asians don't have freckles." Erm, okay. 

Edited September 23, 2018 by galax-arena

[HunterHunted]

On 9/23/2018 at 12:24 AM, galax-arena said:

ETA: As a digression, I think it's weird that some people think that Lucy Liu must be biracial because "Asians don't have freckles." Erm, okay. 

Literally, the first thing I said when I turned on my first LCD tv was "Lucy Liu is covered in freckles. She's gorgeous, but completely covered in freckles." I couldn't tell with my old crappy cathode ray tube.

[methodwriter85]

Which brings is to Lou Diamond Phillips, who I believe is Filipino but was the go-to guy in the 80's and 90's for ethnic young guys. He played Mexican and Native American a good deal of times. It makes me think of my niece, who is 12 and interested in acting. She's mixed with German, Filipino, Scottish, and Native American genes. She was told that her ethinically ambiguous look is "hot" right now and that she could play Asian, Latino, white, etc. The blonde white girl look isn't as in as it used to be, apparently. At least with casting agents on the West Coast for kid shows.

[Raja]

1 hour ago, methodwriter85 said:

Which brings is to Lou Diamond Phillips, who I believe is Filipino but was the go-to guy in the 80's and 90's for ethnic young guys. He played Mexican and Native American a good deal of times. It makes me think of my niece, who is 12 and interested in acting. She's mixed with German, Filipino, Scottish, and Native American genes. She was told that her ethinically ambiguous look is "hot" right now and that she could play Asian, Latino, white, etc. The blonde white girl look isn't as in as it used to be, apparently. At least with casting agents on the West Coast for kid shows.

Filipinos are like most Black Americans in that they accept you as one of them, even if you are mestizo, if any Filipino can be traced to the family. As compared to some societies who treat you as an outsider if they can identify an ancestor from an outside group. I do wonder given how American culture is evolving  that if he was a young breaking actor today if he would only be allowed to play Filipinos even though his dad is a White American.

Edited September 26, 2018 by Raja

[Silver Raven]

13 minutes ago, Raja said:

Filipinos are like most Black Americans in that they accept you as one of them, even if you are mestizo, if any Filipino can be traced to the family. As compared to some societies who treat you as an outsider if they can identify an ancestor from an outside group. I do wonder given how American culture is evolving  that if he was a young breaking actor today if he would only be allowed to play Filipinos even though his dad is a White American.

My one quarter Filipino niece is blonde and fair skinned.  Her Dad is very Asian looking.

[Dee]

Wanna see racism in action?

Just look at the careers of Ashton Sanders & Timothee Chalamet.

[Scarlett45]

21 hours ago, Dee said:

Wanna see racism in action?

Just look at the careers of Ashton Sanders & Timothee Chalamet.

What happened?

[methodwriter85]

I mean, Ashton is getting to star with Denzel Washington in a hit movie so I feel like it's a stretch to say he's completely getting ignored by Hollywood. Sure, Chalamet is an "it boy" and it helps that he's white, but Ashton doesn't seem like he's hurting for roles.

[Dee]

The BEST Ashton gets, after winning raves for starring in an unprecedented best picture oscar winning masterpiece, is to play a sidekick in one of Denzel's third rate later career genre films.

Meanwhile Timothee is a Hollywood IT boy, starring in tons of films and fielding tons of potential offers.

Edited September 30, 2018 by Dee

[Silver Raven]

On 9/28/2018 at 7:38 AM, Dee said:

Wanna see racism in action?

Just look at the careers of Ashton Sanders & Timothee Chalamet.

I never  heard of Ashton Sanders.

[AimingforYoko]

1 hour ago, Dee said:

The BEST Ashton gets, after winning raves for starring in an unprecedented best picture oscar winning masterpiece, is to play a sidekick in one of Denzel's third rate later career genre films

Uh, the man's playing Bigger Thomas in next year's Native Son.

[Dee]

A film remake, with absolutely no buzz, that won't be nearly as high profile as any of Timothee's three Oscar nominated/affiliated roles in the past two years.

[Raja]

10 hours ago, Silver Raven said:

I never  heard of Ashton Sanders.

Maybe a function of my age but for both actors listed I went to Djimon Hounsou"s "Whooo?" line from Guardians Of The Galaxy. After google and seeing the pictures the Black kid was in Equalizer 2., after seeing him the White kid  still could be just any other actor playing between teens and young adult roles.

[starri]

Apparently, some fans have somehow latched onto the idea that Disney will be giving Elsa a female love interest in Frozen 2: Electric Boogaloo.  Why set yourself up for disappointment like that?

[Wynterwolf]

1 minute ago, starri said:

Apparently, some fans have somehow latched onto the idea that Disney will be giving Elsa a female love interest in Frozen 2: Electric Boogaloo.  Why set yourself up for disappointment like that?

Hope springs eternal.  ;-)  Someday, they'll be right.  

Seriously, though... I do think Disney is kinda, sorta, trying to get there.  On some property.  But... yeah, it's more of a 'believe it when you see it' kind of thing.  

[starri]

I mean, I think Elsa's probably the best candidate for it out of all of the Princesses.  Although really, your only other choices are Merida or Moana since they don't have love interests.

But if "Let It Go" isn't a gay anthem by now, I'd be very surprised.

[Wynterwolf]

39 minutes ago, starri said:

But if "Let It Go" isn't a gay anthem by now, I'd be very surprised.

Oh yeah, it totally is.

eta:  Also, I'm actually excited about the PG-13 version of Deadpool2 that is coming out, because I think one of the main stumbling blocks for queer content in big budget movies has been that they would have to automatically forgo income from China, but (and this is obviously not a perfect solution, but I think it's a start) bringing in the mechanism to have multiple versions of a property could help that.  It still means that any queer content would have to be easily lifted out, but I think it would be a positive start... priming the pump, so to speak.    

As for big budget properties, I think the Star Wars universe is probably the likeliest possibility, since the books already have queer content and toxic fanboy already hate it.   

Edited September 30, 2018 by Wynterwolf

[starri]

7 hours ago, Wynterwolf said:

Oh yeah, it totally is.

Answering my own question, I discovered an EP with four dance remixes on it.

[Scarlett45]

I just saw that Gemma Chan is playing Bess of Hardwick in the new Mary Queen of Scots film. I wonder how much vitriol will be thrown her way. Will they try to ugly her up like Margot & Sariose?

(I didn’t spot her in the trailer though)

On 9/29/2018 at 6:46 PM, methodwriter85 said:

I mean, Ashton is getting to star with Denzel Washington in a hit movie so I feel like it's a stretch to say he's completely getting ignored by Hollywood. Sure, Chalamet is an "it boy" and it helps that he's white, but Ashton doesn't seem like he's hurting for roles.

 

On 9/29/2018 at 9:33 PM, Dee said:

The BEST Ashton gets, after winning raves for starring in an unprecedented best picture oscar winning masterpiece, is to play a sidekick in one of Denzel's third rate later career genre films.

Meanwhile Timothee is a Hollywood IT boy, starring in tons of films and fielding tons of potential offers.

Thank you for responding. 

[methodwriter85]

I really want to see a School Daze type of movie that addresses the reality that historically black colleges are facing the need to recruit non-black students in order to keep their numbers up:

https://www.tmcf.org/tmcf-in-the-news/black-colleges-seek-white-latino-asian-students-amid-tight-state-budgets/9020

Pretty interesting, and I feel like you could go some pretty interesting ways with that. I didn't know that DSU has dropped down to 68 percent black.

[Dee]

Spike is in the process of adapting School Daze for Broadway.

[methodwriter85]

I'm also really obsessed with the idea of him updating Do the Right Thing, but against the backdrop of a once-black Brooklyn neighborhood becoming increasingly white. His whole rant on hipsters was interesting to read.

Edited October 2, 2018 by methodwriter85

[Dee]

Right now he's mainly focused on his semi-successful reboot of She's Gotta Have It, which addresses many of the same issues.

[Just Here]

Uh, maybe Callie Khouri (Thelma & Louise, Nashville) would have been a better choice?

 

 

From Variety:

Quote

Lena Dunham will write the harrowing survival tale of a Syrian refugee stranded at sea for the big screen.

Dunham has been tapped by co-producers Steven Spielberg and J.J. Abrams to adapt “A Hope More Powerful Than the Sea: One Refugee’s Incredible Story of Love, Loss, and Survival.”

The nonfiction release comes from author Melissa Fleming, the chief spokeswoman for the United Nations High Commissioner [for Refugees] and Flatiron Books. It documents the true story of Doaa Al Zamel, a mother of two fleeing Egypt for Sweden by boat. Shipwrecked along the way, Al Zamel survived for days in open water holding two small children in each arm with only the support of an inflatable water ring.

The Variety article and other write-ups state that Al Zamel was a "mother of two," but that appears to be an error (conflating the children she rescued as her own or something). 

 

From the A.V. Club write-up:

Quote

Dunham’s a curious choice for the project, what with Girls having long been criticized for its lack of inclusivity and the actress herself having been accused of “hipster racism” by former colleagues. But it’s got ample support from Paramount Pictures, which will team with the high-profile likes of Abrams’ Bad Robot and Spielberg’s Amblin Partners for the film.

 

For some background, Marie Claire has a long excerpt from the book (so spoilers).  The UNHCR website also has a short excerpt (so spoilers).

Edited October 29, 2018 by Just Here
forgot to add a link

[dusang]

"Hipster racism"? There's something really funny/tragic how that connects so seamlessly to the above quoted Spike Lee rant from 2014.

[methodwriter85]

 

I really shouldn't be surprised at the fact that they're focusing

Spoiler

on his straight relationship and only paying slight lip service to his gay side.  Bisexual erasure, yay!

Of course, the problem with doing a honest rock biopic is that you need to be able to get the songs to do the movie, and in order to do that, you to give the band members have some measure of creative control over the movie. Sometimes you get band members that are willing to have an honest portrayal- I thought the Runaways movie was pretty good even though I think Cherie was miscast, and Boy George's Worried About the Boy was very well-done. But it seems like the surviving band just wanted a crowd-pleasing jukebox musical instead of any real honesty about their rise to fame.

[NUguy514]

22 minutes ago, methodwriter85 said:

 

 

I really shouldn't be surprised at the fact that they're focusing

  Hide contents

on his straight relationship and only paying slight lip service to his gay side.  Bisexual erasure, yay!

Of course, the problem with doing a honest rock biopic is that you need to be able to get the songs to do the movie, and in order to do that, you to give the band members have some measure of creative control over the movie. Sometimes you get band members that are willing to have an honest portrayal- I thought the Runaways movie was pretty good even though I think Cherie was miscast, and Boy George's Worried About the Boy was very well-done. But it seems like the surviving band just wanted a crowd-pleasing jukebox musical instead of any real honesty about their rise to fame.

Yep,

Spoiler

I had been hearing for a while now that Freddie was basically straight-washed.  Rami Malek also gave a really annoying, tone-deaf interview last week that Freddie didn't ascribe to labels, so...I don't know, it's OK to ignore his homo-/bisexuality.

I blame Brian May, in particular.

Edited October 30, 2018 by NUguy514

[methodwriter85]

I read somewhere that any authorized biopic of James Dean isn't going to explicitly show James Deans bisexuality because his family won't allow it. The one movie I've seen that explicitly show it was Joshua Tree 1951, which was actually decent for a low-budget pic but the actor didn't feel like James Dean at all.

Edited October 30, 2018 by methodwriter85

[starri]

So much this.

[methodwriter85]

It's amazing that even in 2018, when most of the teenagers I know really don't give a shit about being gay, it's still hard to find happy, positive portrayals of being gay. We still have to feel surprised/grateful like we did when Latter Days and Shelter had happy endings.

Anyway, back to the shorts...Queen:

Such a sweet movie.

Edited November 1, 2018 by methodwriter85

[Cobalt Stargazer]

On 10/30/2018 at 1:42 PM, methodwriter85 said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

on his straight relationship and only paying slight lip service to his gay side.  Bisexual erasure, yay!

Of course, the problem with doing a honest rock biopic is that you need to be able to get the songs to do the movie, and in order to do that, you to give the band members have some measure of creative control over the movie. Sometimes you get band members that are willing to have an honest portrayal- I thought the Runaways movie was pretty good even though I think Cherie was miscast, and Boy George's Worried About the Boy was very well-done. But it seems like the surviving band just wanted a crowd-pleasing jukebox musical instead of any real honesty about their rise to fame.

About ten years before Bohemian Rhapsody became a project, Sacha Baron Cohen and Stephen Frears were going to collaborate on a biopic about Freddie Mercury, with Cohen playing Freddie.

https://www.indiewire.com/2018/11/sacha-baron-cohen-freddie-mercury-movie-r-rated-homosexuality-1202017243/

All things considered, I'm thankful that Brian May and Roger Taylor stepped in and said, 'yeah, we don't like it, so either dial it back or don't do it at all.' I'm all for telling as truthful a story as you can, but I don't like Cohen from what I've seen of his films, and I mightily distrust what he probably thinks 'edgy' means.

[methodwriter85]

On 10/31/2018 at 8:50 PM, starri said:

So much this.

I feel like these seem to be the general plots of movies centered about gay men:

1.) Happy- Urbane, witty sophisticated men who live in fabulous gayborhoods deal with a series of wacky mishaps as they find Mr. Right, who is always invariably a totally masculine dude. There will be plenty of shirtless shots to show off waxed gym bunnys and little twinks. And don't forget the sassy female best friend who looks and acts like Mary Cherry from Popular. Our lead is usually a slightly-to-moderately feminine twink who obsesses over the straight-acting Abercrombie ad.

2.) Sad- AIDS, AIDS, and more AIDS. Maybe diabetes to change things up a bit, but still, likely AIDS. There could be a happily sad ending where the partner doesn't die, but they still have AIDS and will probably die soon after but the couple is determined to live out an abbreviated happy ending.

3.) Sad- If not death by AIDS, death either by suicide or a gay bashing. Or a vague death that was deemed an "accident" but was probably still a gay bashing.

4.) Sad- Two men have a beautiful, lovely relationship. If one or both of them aren't killed either by Number 2 or Number 3, they still break up because of either

i. Disapproving family...if the parents are dead then it's a homophobic sibling/aunt/uncle. Or their best friend, who is a lonely female with a secret crush on their gay best friend.

ii. The jock one (there's ALWAYS the jock boy counterpart to the feminine twink) is either married to a woman, dating a girl, or doesn't want to come out to their jock buddies. The feminine twink realizes that although it will be sad for a bit, they WILL move on and find happiness beyond their Closeted Gay Jock Top.

iii. Inner homophobia...there aren't any actual obstacles with them getting a happy ending beyond the self-hatred of the closeted one. Displayed to perfection with that one gay 90's Australian movie about a Greek god who ruins his chance with a hot dude that looks like Jake McDorman because he can't handle having any kind of intimacy during a sexual act with a guy.

5.) Happy- Generic guy comes out as gay to his friends/family, and the movie focuses on how the straight people surrounding him show off their own love and eventual acceptance of their gay friend, who might or might not get a token romance with some possible closed-mouth kissing or a Hug of the Gays. Or a suggestive look and then a fade to black as we infer that some riding the Greek saddle happened. But the real story is about the straight people, even though it's marketed as a gay movie.

6.) Happy- Basically, Magical Queers who make the lives of the straights all around them better by virtue of being fabulous. Often with a plot about a straight guy rooming with a gay guy and seeing their lives improve as a result. Sometimes they'll make an entire town better by virtue of their gayness.

i. In this same vein, you'll get a plot of a straight man (sometimes a straight woman) who goes undercover as a gay man for plot reasons and sees wackiness/character growth as they get to know what it's like to be queer. They even manage to find the love of a good (cisgender) woman in the process.

Sometimes you get gay cinema that goes beyond all this (Weekend and Estereos were fabulous movies that took familiar tropes but went somewhere different) but man. There's this nagging part of me that thinks recent period gay films (The Miseducation of Cameron Post, Call Me By Your Name, Boy Erased, 1985, Monster Pies) etc etc are being utilized by writers in order to use the same dramatic devices gay dramas have always used even though being gay in 2018 is a helluva lot different than being gay in 1988 or 1998.

Edited November 3, 2018 by methodwriter85

[NUguy514]

2 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

I feel like these seem to be the general plots of movies centered about gay men:

1.) Happy- Urbane, witty sophisticated men who live in fabulous gayborhoods deal with a series of wacky mishaps as they find Mr. Right, who is always invariably a totally masculine dude. There will be plenty of shirtless shots to show off waxed gym bunnys and little twinks. And don't forget the sassy female best friend who looks and acts like Mary Cherry from Popular. Our lead is usually a slightly-to-moderately feminine twink who obsesses over the straight-acting Abercrombie ad.

2.) Sad- AIDS, AIDS, and more AIDS. Maybe diabetes to change things up a bit, but still, likely AIDS. There could be a happily sad ending where the partner doesn't die, but they still have AIDS and will probably die soon after but the couple is determined to live out an abbreviated happy ending.

3.) Sad- If not death by AIDS, death either by suicide or a gay bashing. Or a vague death that was deemed an "accident" but was probably still a gay bashing.

4.) Sad- Two men have a beautiful, lovely relationship. If one or both of them aren't killed either by Number 2 or Number 3, they still break up because of either

i. Disapproving family...if the parents are dead then it's a homophobic sibling/aunt/uncle. Or their best friend, who is a lonely female with a secret crush on their gay best friend.

ii. The jock one (there's ALWAYS the jock boy counterpart to the feminine twink) is either married to a woman, dating a girl, or doesn't want to come out to their jock buddies. The feminine twink realizes that although it will be sad for a bit, they WILL move on and find happiness beyond their Closeted Gay Jock Top.

iii. Inner homophobia...there aren't any actual obstacles with them getting a happy ending beyond the self-hatred of the closeted one. Displayed to perfection with that one gay 90's Australian movie about a Greek god who ruins his chance with a hot dude that looks like Jake McDorman because he can't handle having any kind of intimacy during a sexual act with a guy.

5.) Happy- Generic guy comes out as gay to his friends/family, and the movie focuses on how the straight people surrounding him show off their own love and eventual acceptance of their gay friend, who might or might not get a token romance with some possible closed-mouth kissing or a Hug of the Gays. Or a suggestive look and then a fade to black as we infer that some riding the Greek saddle happened. But the real story is about the straight people, even though it's marketed as a gay movie.

6.) Happy- Basically, Magical Queers who make the lives of the straights all around them better by virtue of being fabulous. Often with a plot about a straight guy rooming with a gay guy and seeing their lives improve as a result. Sometimes they'll make an entire town better by virtue of their gayness.

i. In this same vein, you'll get a plot of a straight man (sometimes a straight woman) who goes undercover as a gay man for plot reasons and sees wackiness/character growth as they get to know what it's like to be queer. They even manage to find the love of a good (cisgender) woman in the process.

Sometimes you get gay cinema that goes beyond all this (Weekend and Estereos were fabulous movies that took familiar tropes but went somewhere different) but man. There's this nagging part of me that thinks recent period gay films (The Miseducation of Cameron Post, Call Me By Your Name, Boy Erased, 1985, Monster Pies) etc etc are being utilized by writers in order to use the same dramatic devices gay dramas have always used even though being gay in 2018 is a helluva lot different than being gay in 1988 or 1998.

I wish I could like this one million times.  The feminine twink (bottom) getting the closeted jock (top) always makes me so mad because that just doesn't happen.  It's like there always needs to be a feminine guy and a masculine guy together, and that's a pairing you almost never see in real life; I mean, everyone wants the jock, but the only one who actually gets him is another jock.  It's yet another manifestation of heteronormativity in movies, even LGBT-centric movies, that really annoys me.

[methodwriter85]

There are some movies that take that trope and make it more realistic, because one thing I really liked about Latter Days is that Christian was a femme twink in the body of a 6 foot tall jock who could play basketball because he knew that was the way to seduce jock boys. But yeah, Christian and Elder Aaron looked waaaaayyyy more realistic as a couple than say Steven and Not Christian Bale in Get Real. Or basically any of the Eating Out movies that follow the femme twink/masc jock template to a tee.

One thing I did think was interesting about the casting of Dream Boy is that Book Nathan and Book Roy seemed to follow that as well, but they kind of went with a twink type for both of them in the movie. Roy was described as ruggedly handsome but they went with a total pretty boy with Shaun Cassidy hair that seemed like he might have been shorter than Nathan.

[NUguy514]

11 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

There are some movies that take that trope and make it more realistic, because one thing I really liked about Latter Days is that Christian was a femme twink in the body of a 6 foot tall jock who could play basketball because he knew that was the way to seduce jock boys. But yeah, Christian and Elder Aaron looked waaaaayyyy more realistic as a couple than say Steven and Not Christian Bale in Get Real. Or basically any of the Eating Out movies that follow the femme twink/masc jock template to a tee.

I was actually thinking of Get Real specifically with the twink/jock pairing, too!  So unrealistic.  Also, a terrible movie called Love or Whatever had a spin on that pairing, and it was ridiculous.  And yeah, I agree 100% about Latter Days: Christian was pretty feminine, but he was also a jock (which, as we know, is not the most unusual thing in the world of gay men) and looked completely right with Aaron.

[starri]

51 minutes ago, NUguy514 said:

I was actually thinking of Get Real specifically with the twink/jock pairing, too!  So unrealistic

But hasn't that been a constant problem in a lot of movies or TV shows?  Each high school has exactly enough gay students so they can date?

...I loved Get Real.