Super Social Analysis: Gender, Race, Ethnicity, and LGBT in Movies

[PepSinger]

To be honest, I am glad it IS being made because it's a story I haven't heard. 

Yes, while it is annoying when people of color are pushed to the sidelines, this movie doesn't qualify. This movie isn't about the slaves. It's about Newt Knight. It's telling his story. The movie's not usurping a story of a person of color in order to tell this story. Apples and oranges, IMO.

[methodwriter85]

I did like how they both explored to see whether or not they could do it,

Spoiler

but they still decided it wasn't for them. I'd kind of like to see one where the straight guy says, "Fuck it", and goes for it. Still, you're right, they were both interesting turns on the idea.

[Archery]

Did I say it shouldn't have been made?  No.  I said, What I really wondered was, What if they told the story from the point of view of the (so far) unnamed black guy who is in the background?  You may not consider it to be a white savior film, and that's fine.  I suspect we are not coming at it from the same perspective.  And, yes, I understand that it is about Newt Knight and that it is telling his story.  As hundreds of movies before this one have told the stories of white people standing up and being heroes.  I want to see movies about people of color standing up and being heroes -- in their own right, not appended to white people standing up and being heroes. 

18 hours ago, Rick Kitchen said:

And that's all well and good, but that's not what this movie is about.  White people have history, too.

Yes, I may have taken a course or two on the history of white people over the years.  People of color have history also, and those stories rarely get told by the movie industry is the point.

[ChelseaNH]

Hey, the new Roots is airing all this week; black history is so done at this point...

[ribboninthesky1]

The true story about Newt and Jones County is definitely not of a white savior.  Remains to be seen if the film will go there or not. The trailers I've seen definitely have that air about them, ironic given that Jones County supposedly had the smallest percentage of enslaved blacks in all of Mississippi.  

In any case, films about those against the Confederacy aren't exactly rare.  

[Ubiquitous]

Is it just me, or do the turtles in the latest Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie look more like black guys than turtles?

[Trini]

Well, Michelangelo in particular.

[kiddo82]

Exactly.

The last 6 or so paragraphs are gold, IMO.

[Rick Kitchen]

I don't know how I feel about the Magnificent Seven having to rescue poor white people instead of poor Mexican people.

 

[Raja]

On Thursday, June 02, 2016 at 8:42 PM, Rick Kitchen said:

I don't know how I feel about the Magnificent Seven having to rescue poor white people instead of poor Mexican people.

 

 

You're missing the gender twist it is a woman who gets the Six and joins as a seventh instead of a Mexican boy 

[xaxat]

A biopic about the Persian poet Rumi? That might be interesting. "Rumi film will challenge Muslim stereotypes, says Gladiator writer"

Quote

Franzoni and Brown said they would like Leonardo DiCaprio to play Rumi, and Robert Downey Jr to star as Shams of Tabriz,

Oh, Hell no!

[pivot]

Of course, they want to whitewash that movie. So offensive.

[Rick Kitchen]

Persians are white.  They're Aryans.  Thus "Iran".

[proserpina65]

17 hours ago, xaxat said:

A biopic about the Persian poet Rumi? That might be interesting. "Rumi film will challenge Muslim stereotypes, says Gladiator writer"

Oh, Hell no!

I would say hell no just because I think DiCaprio is a lousy actor.  But Persian is an ethnicity, not a race, and many Persians consider themselves to be white.  Now, Rumi may have been considerably darker than DiCaprio or he may not have been; photography wasn't around to give us an answer on that one.  I myself would probably try casting someone more racially ambiguous, but this isn't exactly the most glaring example of bad casting because of skin color.

Edited to note that the casting in Gods of Egypt was pretty egregiously awful in this respect, although I'm still gonna watch it when it hits non-premium cable 'cause scantily clad Nicolaj.

Edited June 9, 2016 by proserpina65

[Lugal]

I just can't see DiCaprio playing Rumi.  I personally would go with Hrithik Roshan or Ranbir Kapoor (who have a better claim to "Aryan" than DiCaprio).

[Rick Kitchen]

Ramin Karimloo needs a movie break-in, if he's interested.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I guess MRAs are not as upset about the All Female Ocean's 11 remake?  Trust me, I don't really care to find out.  I am sure that the Youtube video of the trailer will have 700 million dislikes or whatever.  I guess it's "different" for whatever reason(s)...?

[Ms Blue Jay]

Quote

I would say hell no just because I think DiCaprio is a lousy actor.  But Persian is an ethnicity, not a race, and many Persians consider themselves to be white.  Now, Rumi may have been considerably darker than DiCaprio or he may not have been; photography wasn't around to give us an answer on that one.  I myself would probably try casting someone more racially ambiguous, but this isn't exactly the most glaring example of bad casting because of skin color.

How can one argue that this it not about skin colour?  DiCaprio and Downey Jr. are both white - they want to cast the movie with white leads.  How much more clear can it be?  And DiCaprio's a "lousy actor"?  For all the reasons to disagree with the casting, you pick his acting ability, which has been nominated for dozens of awards over a span of decades?  This thread is about race and ethnicity in the movies, so in my opinion this is a willful dismissal of the topic.

Edited June 9, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[Trini]

I just wish they wouldn't keep calling it an "All Female Ocean's 11 remake". (Even if it is.)

Edited June 9, 2016 by Trini

[raezen]

I don't understand why they don't just call it the Sandra Bullock(that's who I think they want) heist film. 

[Dejana]

Chadwick Boseman to star in a Thurgood Marshall biopic. On one hand I like that they are making a movie about him, but of course if a black movie has any aspirations for prestige/awards it has to be about racial strife some way (that, or about a singer).  Also, I have to say my first reaction was to think something is off with Hollywood thinking the giu who played Jackie Robinson and James Brown is the one to go to for Thurgood Marshall. Actors frequently aren't the spitting image of the real life figures they portray, but there's really not a hint of a resemblance beyond them possibly checking the same box on the census. I mean, if they were doing The Nicole Kidman Story and Mila Kunis and all these other olive skinned actresses were interested, TPTB would just openly point out the absurdity. But here, I have to wonder if there's a fear of being perceived as racist or "seeing color" in any way. I mean, I saw that clip of Chadwick Boseman in Gods of Egypt, I get him not turning down a good role and the story of Brown v. Board of Education was more than about whether the black people involved were light or dark-skinned, but IDK, I can't help but feel there's an element of "well, you know, they all look the same" attached.

Edited June 10, 2016 by Dejana

[Trini]

I think it may be the issue of "there are only so many black actors 'allowed' to be A-list at a time". Those who are automatically get on the shortlist when a project needs a black lead.

And with a film that aims for some prestige, Hollywood is going to cast for a recognizable name before a similar likeness. And that happens with many historical biopics regardless of race.

[manbearpig]

In any case, a movie that is supposedly going to feature Sandra Bullock, Cate Blanchett, Mindy Kaling and Helena Bonham Carter is something I need to see. I would have preferred a different title though, if only because reading about the Ghostbusters situation has been exhausting and I don't want to see a similar reaction to this movie.

[ribboninthesky1]

Was Boseman cast in the Thurgood Marshall film before all of the Civil War press? I don't know that I would have considered him A-List before signing on with Marvel. He does seem to be the current go-to for "historically significant black male" characters. I mean, if Don Cheadle hadn't written and produced the Miles Davis biopic...

[AimingforYoko]

So, if you were the first black anything, expect Chadwick Boseman to play you. First black in the Majors: Check. First black comic-book superhero: Check. First black on SCOTUS: Check. I guess he can just book that Obama biopic now.

[kili]

Quote

I guess MRAs are not as upset about the All Female Ocean's 11 remake?

I don't know about those yahoos, but I'm feeling kind of used.

On the one hand, a movie with Sandra Bullock, Cate Blanchet, Mindy Kaling and others mentioned? Count me in.

On the other hand....I'm suspicious. I have visions of Movie Execs sitting around a room having the following discussion:

Exec 1: "We have a few more movies to green-light for this cycle. Let's brainstorm new ideas"

Exec2: "Oh, I know,  American Sniper made like $350M. Let's remake that"

Exec3: "I don't know, Moe. That just came out last year. Isn't it a bit soon for a remake? What happened to our wait-at-least-three-years-between-remakes rule we introduced after the Spiderman complaints?"

Exec 2: ":Larry, you got to think outside the box! We'll do it with an all-female cast. An elite army group of females led by Jennifer Lawrence. Nobody will complain about the too-soon-remake, they'll be too excited about how open-minded we are!"

"Exec 1: "I like that kind of original thinking! Let's also green-light an all-female Imitation Game and Creed while we are at it."

How about an all-female movie that at least pretends to be original? Let's not just use it as a lazy excuse to put out remakes at an ever increasing pace while preening about how great you are to cast women. And while they are at it, how about just doing reasonable casting jobs in the first place? The world contains a variety of people - why did the original/remade Ocean 11 exist in a Smurf-like world with just one female?

[Joe]

2 hours ago, kili said:

 An elite army group of females led by Jennifer Lawrence.

I know what you're getting at, but you've hit on a decent idea there. I would go and see the Jennifer Lawrence military action movie.

[Julia]

I've been bummed about the missed opportunity of the remake of The Women for years.

[Bruinsfan]

I was deeply unimpressed with that movie.

[proserpina65]

On ‎06‎/‎09‎/‎2016 at 4:58 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

How can one argue that this it not about skin colour?  DiCaprio and Downey Jr. are both white - they want to cast the movie with white leads.  How much more clear can it be?  And DiCaprio's a "lousy actor"?  For all the reasons to disagree with the casting, you pick his acting ability, which has been nominated for dozens of awards over a span of decades?  This thread is about race and ethnicity in the movies, so in my opinion this is a willful dismissal of the topic.

I'm sorry that my opinion on the potential casting for this one film doesn't match yours.  There are many other films on which I think we'd agree - I did, after all, mention Gods of Egypt as an egregious example.

[aradia22]

I know C. Robert Cargill from back in the old spill.com days. I think his response was fairly well put. It's hard to bring out characters from a less culturally sensitive past and sell them to a mass audience in the most palatable way. I don't think he says anything that awful aside from the SJW crack. And he is a Republican, last time I checked, but he's a nice one who lives in Austin and has mostly liberal friends. I've never thought of him as a hateful person. I just wish, as the writer of the article points out, that the solution to sidestepping possible controversy was not still "white as default" because somehow it's more generic and less offensive.

[Constantinople]

On 6/10/2016 at 7:39 PM, kili said:

How about an all-female movie that at least pretends to be original?

That's why I'm not particularly enthusiastic about the Ghostbusters remake.  A 30 year old hand me down seems like an odd idea of progress, though I'm sure I'll watch it once it hits cable (I don't go out to the movies anymore).

[Bruinsfan]

I don't know him, but based on the interviews I've read and seen my impression is not a good one, no matter how many liberal friends the guy can claim. And I think defending the casting decision as one meant to avoid stereotypes is a poorly chosen hill to die on when talking about a movie that's whitewashing the protagonist's wise, powerful mentor but keeping his Asian houseboy.

Edited June 19, 2016 by Bruinsfan

[Trini]

In an interview with Allure magazine, 'Zoe Saldana Fires Back At Critics Of Her Nina Simone Biopic Appearance.'

[ribboninthesky1]

Not at all surprised - Zoe has been tone deaf for years, and it's finally catching up to her.  That entire production was a mess from the beginning, and instead of doubling down, Saldana needs to step back, take it for what it is - a poor decision - and chill.  Where is her PR team? Good grief. 

[Bruinsfan]

On 5/15/2016 at 4:06 PM, BookWoman56 said:

I remember by age 10 having decided that marriage pretty much sucked, because it meant that instead of your parents telling you what to do, your husband would now be doing that, and with no hope of you becoming old enough to leave home and do what you wanted. Not to mention the indignity and unfairness of having a husband or boyfriend who would feel free to spank you if you dared to disagree with him or think for yourself.

I think the movies included a good bit of wish-fulfillment by American men about maintaining control of the uppity women, though, rather than reflecting the universal reality of married life at the time. My parents met in the late 50s and married in the early 60s, and based on Mom's reaction the first time the issue of spanking me came up, I suspect if Dad had ever tried to spank her I'd have been raised by a widow.

Edited June 23, 2016 by Bruinsfan

[Cobalt Stargazer]

On 6/10/2016 at 5:39 PM, kili said:

Exec 2: ":Larry, you got to think outside the box! We'll do it with an all-female cast. An elite army group of females led by Jennifer Lawrence. Nobody will complain about the too-soon-remake, they'll be too excited about how open-minded we are!"

I'm pretty sure you're being facetious, but regardless it wouldn't work. Like Joe, I'd go see such a movie, but people who have been annoyed by Jennifer Lawrence since Silver Linings Playbook would complain because someone older wasn't cast.

Edited June 24, 2016 by Cobalt Stargazer

[Julia]

On 5/20/2016 at 1:05 AM, kiddo82 said:

People are dumb.  I mean, people can like or not like whatever they want and I'm certainly not telling anyone how he should feel, however, if you don't want to see the movie then don't seen it.  (I'm not 100% sold I want to see it in all honesty).  It's not rocket science.  We're talking about grown ass adults spending productive daylight hours whining over a movie about scientists who drive around in a hearse and trap ghosts in tiny boxes.  That says way more about them than it does about anything else. 

It's not about the movie. It's about bored, discontented children whose goal is to make it too unpleasant or too intimidating to say anything they don't like on the internet because they can.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

4 hours ago, Julia said:

It's not about the movie. It's about bored, discontented children whose goal is to make it too unpleasant or too intimidating to say anything they don't like on the internet because they can.

More than that, both extreme sides feed off of each other. The people who are on the 'net griping about the movie have been named 'manbaby fanboys', which brings to mind some Seth Rogen-shaped manchild who still lives in his parents' basement and spends the money he makes writing code on Star Wars action figures, etc while having a pot dealer on speed dial. Because that isn't hostile at all. I guess if you're a guy who intends to see the movie whether it's any good or not, you don't out and out support misogyny? Because that's kind of what the argument boils down to, IMO.

And before anyone says it, yes, I am aware that there are men who would rather never see women do anything on the big screen. But if this was really about the Ghostbusters remake, then I guess you're also sexist/misogynistic if you don't like Twilight. Sure, Bella Swan was a total cipher, and Kristen Stewart is one of the worst actresses I've ever seen, but it's still centered around a female protagonist. In fact, between Gillian Flynn Gone Girl, Stephenie Meyer Twilight, and E.L. James Fifty Shades of Grey, it hardly seems as if any Seth Rogen wannabes are actually the problem. Or at least not the whole problem.

[Rick Kitchen]

There is going to be a big screen version of "Lone Wolf and Cub" with, as the producers say, "an essentially all-Japanese cast".  But as the io9 article says, that probably means a big white actor in the lead with a bunch of Japaense actors surrounding him.

 

http://io9.gizmodo.com/lone-wolf-and-cub-to-get-english-language-remake-with-e-1782738397

[JessePinkman]

Everyday I thank my lucky stars we're not getting Black Panther starring Channing Tatum.

[Trini]

“Ghost In The Shell” Producer Defends Scarlett Johansson’s Role In The Film

Quote

While the original Ghost in the Shell takes place in the fictional Japanese city of Niihama, Niihama Prefecture, Paul referred to the setting of Ghost in the Shell as “an international world.” “There [are] all sorts of people and nationalities in the world in Ghost in the Shell,” he said of the cast, which also includes Pilou Asbaek, Michael Pitt, Takeshi Kitano, Juliette Binoche, Kaori Momoi, and Chin Han. “We’re utilizing people from all over the world. … There’s Japanese in it. There’s Chinese in it. There’s English in it. There’s Americans in it.”

...

“I don’t think it was just a Japanese story. Ghost in the Shell was a very international story, and it wasn’t just focused on Japanese; it was supposed to be an entire world,” he said. “That’s why I say the international approach is, I think, the right approach to it.”

[JBC344]

I swear that these "explanations" for the casting choices always come off as "afterthought excuses".  They always sound so forced, flimsy, and complete BS. For once I would really like an honest answer of "We wanted to get this movie financed and we needed a "non minority" star to do that.  We don't make the rules we just try to play within them."  Now, not that any of that would be ok, but at least your not insulting our intelligence by at least giving us the truth.

[xaxat]

12 hours ago, JBC344 said:

For once I would really like an honest answer of "We wanted to get this movie financed and we needed a "non minority" star to do that.  We don't make the rules we just try to play within them."

Here ya go!

Quote

Like most high-profile religious pictures since Martin Scorsese’s 1988 “The Last Temptation of Christ,” “Exodus” became the subject of intense media scrutiny before Scott had ever exposed a frame of (digital) film on stages at London’s Pinewood Studios and on location in Spain. Much of the outcry online stemmed from his decision to cast white American, European and Australian actors in most of the key roles, no matter that the same could be said of “The Passion of the Christ,” “Noah,” “The Ten Commandments” and virtually any other big-budget Bible movies. “I can’t mount a film of this budget, where I have to rely on tax rebates in Spain, and say that my lead actor is Mohammad so-and-so from such-and-such,” Scott says. “I’m just not going to get it financed. So the question doesn’t even come up.”

[JustaPerson]

[galax-arena]

“That’s why I say the international approach is, I think, the right approach to it.”

Not that I don't think that the international excuse is bullshit for other reasons, but since when does "international" translate to white lead? 

And notice how Scarlett's character's mother is still being played by a Japanese actress... 

[Rick Kitchen]

I'm kind of leery about the upcoming Hidden Figures.  Even though the plot description says 

"The film recounts the true story of the African-American mathematician, Katherine Johnson, and her two colleagues, Dorothy Vaughan and Mary Jackson, who helped NASA catch up in the Space Race. Using their calculations, John Glenn became the first American astronaut to make a complete orbit of the Earth."

every cast listing I see has Kirsten Dunst and Kevin Costner listed first.

[xaxat]

I hope the don't screw it up. I have the book on pre-order and am really looking forward to learning the story.

One great thing about the movie is that it is the rare biopic featuring POC who are not famous athletes, musicians or civil rights leaders. White subjects routinely are the focus of movies about exceptional, but relatively unknown, people doing relative mundane things like inventing mops, windshield wipers and doing math/physics.

POC? Not so much.

Edited July 8, 2016 by xaxat

[Luckylyn]

Underwritten Female Characters: The Movie We’ve Been Waiting For

[Bastet]

Quote

Underwritten Female Characters: The Movie We’ve Been Waiting For

"I used to be an actress, but then I turned 36 and got fired from Hollywood."