Super Social Analysis: Gender, Race, Ethnicity, and LGBT in Movies

[Hybridcookie]

Aladdin and Jasmine have been cast!

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/aladdin-disney-remake-finds-leads-1020047

[xaxat]

Is there any way I can hibernate for the rest of this awful year and just wake up in time for this and Black Panther?

[GHScorpiosRule]

I don't care how old he is, or what other shows and movies he's been in, but I want Oded Fehr to play Jafar! Hey, if they can cast Will Smith, who ISN'T an unknown, then Oded can play Jafar. Again, I don't CARE that he played him on Once Upon A Time.

Edited July 15, 2017 by GHScorpiosRule

[twoods]

I liked Naomi Scott in Lemonade Mouth, so hope she does well as Jasmine. Aladdin was my favorite Disney movie so excited about this- I just hope Guy doesn't screw it up.

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, Hybridcookie said:

Aladdin and Jasmine have been cast!

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/aladdin-disney-remake-finds-leads-1020047

Newcomer Mena Massoud, huh? Hmmm, let's see:

Ethnically appropriate? Check (was that so fucking hard?!)

Can sing? Remains to be seen.

Smokin' hot babe? Yup!

On that note, may I just say: DAAAAAAAAAAMN! I can't wait to see that in a shirtless vest!

On Naomi, I haven't seen her in anything, but I'm optimistic.

[spaceytraci1208]

Currently watching Major League II. They really just replaced Wesley Snipes with Omar Epps like nobody would notice SMH. Also Pedro Cerrano is a horrific racist stereotype, but damn Dennis Haysbert was fine in this movie...

[Silver Raven]

3 hours ago, Hybridcookie said:

Aladdin and Jasmine have been cast!

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/aladdin-disney-remake-finds-leads-1020047

Will Smith is the genie?  Yuck.

Quote

On that note, may I just say: DAAAAAAAAAAMN! I can't wait to see that in a shirtless vest!

 

Edited July 15, 2017 by Silver Raven

[Irlandesa]

What I think is funny is that, given the timing, it is very likely that when that article came out they were probably already negotiating a deal with the stars or even had it finalized but waiting to announce until the expo.

Edited July 15, 2017 by Irlandesa

[Spartan Girl]

I really have to stop going on Twitter.

Can I just say that I'm incredulous about the bitching over Naomi Scott casting, dismissing her as "white" when in fact she is Indian. At the same time, they bitch about that Avan Jogia guy not being cast as Aladdin, even though he's Indian and not Middle Eastern/Arabic, just like Naomi?!

I need to lie down...

[twoods]

Yeah, the hypocrisy was making me mad. Both of them are half Indian, but it's okay for Avan and not Naomi. They are just pissed because these fangirls (most of them are female) wanted Jade Thirlwall from Little Mix to be Jasmine. She is also mixed, but who cares right? She's not even an actress! 

Edited July 16, 2017 by twoods
I can spell, I promise!

[aradia22]

That's... weird. I'm a Little Mix fan and I would never have even pictured her as Jasmine. 

[callie lee 29]

8 hours ago, xaxat said:

 

Is there any way I can hibernate for the rest of this awful year and just wake up in time for this and Black Panther?

I've never had an interest in the novel, but this trailer looks really great. 2018 cannot come soon enough.

[andromeda331]

8 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I don't care how old he is, or what other shows and movies he's been in, but I want Oded Fehr to play Jafar! Hey, if they can cast Will Smith, who ISN'T an unknown, then Oded can play Jafar. Again, I don't CARE that he played him on Once Upon A Time.

Please, please, please make this happen! He would be awesome! Once Upon a Time doesn't counts they barely used him. 

[Spartan Girl]

Some info on Mena Massoud, in case anybody is interested

[galax-arena]

There's really no doubt that colorism played a role in Naomi Scott being cast (and yes, I'm aware that Jasmine in the animated movie isn't particularly dark either), but people actually calling her white are erasing biracial people and that's obviously nagl either.

ETA: And, while I don't blame the actors themselves, I do think it's worth pointing out the trend of Hollywood casting half-white actors in POC roles. There's a reason for that. And I say white because it's almost never biracial people who aren't part white. You don't see Sydney Park being cast in too many Asian roles. 

Edited July 17, 2017 by galax-arena

[Scarlett45]

On 7/11/2017 at 10:30 AM, topanga said:

I totally agree, and even Peter's love interest is a woman of color. And I like that no one felt the need to discuss that Liz and MJ are black (biracial)  

Still, and I know this might sound like sound like sour grapes, but Hollywood is one again reinforcing the belief that according to mainstream movies, the only beautiful, desirable black women in are biracial. I'm not criticizing the young women who were in the movie: the actress playing Liz was good, and I've always liked Zendaya. But it would be nice to sometimes see a dark brown--or even a medium-brown-- actress in a blockbuster. I know Lupita has been in Star Wars and will soon be in Black Panther, but she's only one actress. 

I'd like to see a Riele Downs (Nickelodeon) or Imani Hakim or another black actress get a fair shot. 

Could it be that Hollywood execs are trying to appease the racist comic book fans who lose their shit whenever a person of color is cast in a movie about fictional cartoon characters who live in fictitious worlds? 

I understand what you're saying. It does ruffle my feathers that the vast majority of light skinned black women in the media (especially love interests) are bi-racial- not every light skinned black person is biracial!!! 

 

I did enjoy the fact that there was a mixture of ethnicities in a Queens NYC High School. 

[Zuleikha]

Quote

Newcomer Mena Massoud, huh? Hmmm, let's see:

Ethnically appropriate? Check (was that so fucking hard?!)

It wasn't so hard because no one from the production team ever said it was hard or implied it was hard. The whole to do was Internet bloggers completely misrepresenting the THR article that they were all linking to for easy snark (and I suspect a bunch of bloggers reading each other and not bothering to go back to the THR). The THR article explicitly listed three actors who were still in contention, one of whom was Mena Massoud. The THR article focused a lot more on the delay coming from production creating a chaotic testing process.

The snark on Naomi Scott is disgusting for so many reasons, not least of which is when people were snarking unjustly on the delay with casting Aladdin, one of the most common comments was "haven't they heard of Bollywood?" Naomi Scott was actually already identified as one of the two frontrunners for Jasmine and the other contender was Tara Sutaria, who's also Indian. No one said boo about it. Gujarat is in the part of India that was part of the Persian empire and had a lot of Persian mixing (and borders Pakistan), so is more appropriate than casting from some other parts of Indian would be. It gets complicated.

I don't know how much colorism does or doesn't apply in terms of Naomi Scott being biracial. I mean, I think colorism ALWAYS applies but at the same time, there are many Arabs and Indians who are as light or lighter than Naomi Scott. Tara Sutaria isn't biracial, but she's fairly pale--lighter than Naomi Scott I think. 

Apropos of nothing, I'm pretty much in love with Massoud already simply because of this quote, talking about Robin Williams as an acting inspiration: “He was an incredibly well-rounded actor but I grew up on his role in Mrs. Doubtfire,” Massoud said of Williams. “That role by itself is very well-rounded and he goes through an amazing journey in that movie. I think it’s very underrated.” That is not the conventional pick!

Edited July 18, 2017 by Zuleikha
wonky formatting

[galax-arena]

Oh, it's definitely true that colorism/light skin isn't synonymous with being partly white. I think I benefit from colorism as a light-skinned East Asian, and no one's ever gonna mistake me for white, half white, or anything but Asian lmao. I think with Hollywood, it might be a mix of both colorism and "foreign but not too foreign." 

Edited July 18, 2017 by galax-arena

[kiddo82]

http://www.indiewire.com/2017/07/films-pass-bechdel-test-dunkirk-their-finest-1201857842/

 

Good article how not every film needs to pass the Bechdel test.  I'm a woman and I'm pro woman and I love seeing my women people up there on the big screen not being defined by men etc. etc.  Having said that, and I'm speaking about Dunkirk specifically, the story that it told, and more importantly the way it was told didn't leave much room for that and that's okay.  Could there have been a nurse going "Golly, Nancy, those war planes sure are loud." and then the other nurse goes, "I CAN'T HEAR YOU, MARGE!  THE WAR PLANES ARE TOO LOUD!".  Sure.  But it wouldn't have made one iota of difference in terms of actual female representation in the movie.  And again, that's not inherently a sin especially when you see how the movie plays out.  Sometimes it just seems like mountains get made out of molehills because of this one made up assessment.  That's not to discount what it represents, and it really should be ridiculously easy to pass under most circumstances, but sometimes I feel like people use it as their only criteria without any context or critical thinking.

Edited July 30, 2017 by kiddo82

[Irlandesa]

I'm not terribly impressed by the article because I don't think it's really saying anything new.  A lot has been written on the test.  A lot.  And a lot of that discussion does talk about how the simplistic test can lead to movies that overall are feminist movies to not pass the test for....reasons and for movies which aren't very good at representing women to pass the test with a scene similar to what you wrote about.

Sure, some people are ridiculously nitpicky and can make big deals out of one movie not passing the test which then leads people to dismiss the test as stupid BUT for the most part, the strength of the test has always been in its broad application.  It's not about this movie or that movie (unless there's really no reason why the movie shouldn't pass the test) but as a way to look at the industry overall.  Because it's such a simple test, those good women movies that don't pass and bad women movies that do will likely cancel each other out. 

It's about percentages.  Percentage of movies overall that pass the test.  Percentage of movies that pass that test in a given year.  Percentage of Oscar nominated movies which can pass the test.  Percentage of an author's oeuvre that can pass the test.  And that's where Nolan gets into trouble, IMO.  The author of the article barely touched on it and then breezed past it. The percentage of Nolan's films that pass the test is below the industry average.*  That author wants to make a "what could you realistically expect from this kind of movie?"  point.  But critics are taking the "From Nolan?  That's basically what we'd expect" approach.   Sure, this movie is probably one that is going to be male heavy but Nolan's history really hasn't earned him much consideration.

Not that it matters.  It's making money and it's earning accolades. 

*And that's just the Bechdel test.  It's interesting to read about how women are actually portrayed in his movies.

Edited July 30, 2017 by Irlandesa

[kiddo82]

9 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Sure, some people are ridiculously nitpicky and can make big deals out of one movie not passing the test which then leads people to dismiss the test as stupid BUT for the most part, the strength of the test has always been in its broad application.  It's not about this movie or that movie (unless there's really no reason why the movie shouldn't pass the test) but as a way to look at the industry overall.  Because it's such a simple test, those good women movies that don't pass and bad women movies that do will likely cancel each other out. 

That's exactly my point.  In being literal about the criteria on an individual basis it just makes it easier to poke holes through its weaknesses and then dismiss it.  It's a tool for the broad spectrum but it shouldn't be the be all and end all case by case.  And I'm no Nolan fan girl so I have no cause to defend or dismiss his history, but comparing a fantasy movie like The Dark Knight with so many scenes, locations, characters, and moving pieces to Dunkirk is like apples and wrenches.  I just feel that coming down on a particular film about gender roles where the criticisms can be very reasonably hand waved away makes it easier to hand wave away the next set of criticisms which will undoubtedly have a stronger foundation.  

Edited July 30, 2017 by kiddo82

[Irlandesa]

4 hours ago, kiddo82 said:

I just feel that coming down on a particular film about gender roles where the criticisms can be very reasonably hand waved away makes it easier to hand wave away the next set of criticisms which will undoubtedly have a stronger foundation.  

I did a quick Google search to see if I could find this massive feminist backlash to Dunkirk.  Now, I could be missing it but what I don't see is some massive "we're coming for you" feminist targeting of Dunkirk for failing to pass the Bechdel Test.

What I do see, however, is A LOT of "The Bechdel Test is stupid/I don't need no black people or stinkin' women in my movies" write-ups.  All this ink is being written, not in response to a larger theme in think pieces but rather in reaction to one line in an overwhelmingly positive review.  That line  is basically "the fact that there are no women or people of color might rub some people the wrong way."  That's it.  Acknowledging that when it comes to spending their money, there are people who are looking to spend it on movies that feature women and diversity. And how dare the reviewer, who again, gave the movie a positive review, point that out for moviegoers looking for that kind of information?  

So all this worry that people who pay attention to/discuss/think about The Bechdel Test or women in movies aren't seeing the forest for the trees seems misguided to me.  People who pay attention to diversity and The Bechdel Test are largely ignoring the movie and letting it live in its context while there seems to be a lot of write-ups pretending that the opposite is happening.

[DisneyBoy]

Quote

And let's not even talk about The Killing Joke.

Let's also not talk about Batwoman either then *shudder*.

That film was lame. It was a weak backdoor pilot for three new characters with nothing new about them who stole all the focus away from the original cast of characters who at the time were making their last appearances since the end of TNBA. I don't think we ever saw Conroy's Batman with Gordon again (that actor passed on), and they even recast Paul William's delightful Penguin and Bane.

So...yes, there were three ladies of various ethnicities shown....but I hated how forced it all felt and resented them. Hardly ideal representation.

Amanda Waller on JLU was a much better example of integration.

And I definitely want animated BOP, Batgirl and WW movies. The director of the only WW DTV actually pitched a Batgirl DTV idea and was turned down. She no longer works for WB.

[methodwriter85]

 

You had me at Armie Hammer wearing a lime green mid-thigh swimsuit. And damn, their contrast in looks is hot.

[aradia22]

Quote

I don't know if that's going always going to be a hard and fast rule.  Considering the size of the 14-25 demographic on Tumblr that seems obsessed with homoeroticism, I can't imagine that in ten, fifteen years we won't see that.  For that matter, look at the outsized followings of so many of the gay YouTube "stars."

I read a pretty persuasive theory--and I am fully aware that I am saying this as a middle-aged gay man, so I'm very very sorry if this comes off like mansplaining--that said that slashfic is a safer way for women to objectify men because two men together completely eliminates male gaze from the equations.  And while on the one hand, I think it's great that people have an outlet for sexytimes, I also find myself somewhat annoyed that it's burst forth into a plethora of self-published male/male erotic ebooks.  I think it's great that these women have found an audience and a following, but if you try to find gay male content on Amazon, that's like 95% of it now.  But that's a gripe for the book forum.

TL;DR:  I think demographically the super-duper leading man heartthrob may be on its way out.

The bigger challenge, perhaps, is the male power fantasies:  your Jason Bournes, James Bonds, James T Kirk...

I know I'm getting to this late but... yes, that's a good way of characterizing that Tumblr weirdness. "Obsessed with homoeroticism." It doesn't come off as mansplaining. I've read that theory before too. I'm just not sure I buy it. It's almost like the classic homoeroticism example in fiction of two men competing over a woman because they can't express their desire for each other. Sure, it's probably relevant some of the time... but not all of the time. Anyway, I've never gotten that culture on Tumblr or fanfiction or whatever corner of the internet it's currently brewing in. I can certainly still find a gay actor attractive and a viable male lead but outside of that, if I know a guy is gay, there goes my desire. It's the same basic idea of why would you be interested in someone who isn't attracted to you? I feel like with teenage girls, the homoeroticism is often on the level of mashing two Barbie dolls together. I don't think it's an accident that oftentimes the men (straight or gay) in question have a twink-like body type or could in some way be seen as more stereotypically feminine or sensitive or artistic. If I had to hazard a guess, it's not the male gaze that's eliminated but a more threatening, aggressive straight male sexuality. Perhaps it's also a way of (trying) to picture healthy relationships outside the confines of a male/female dynamic which has so much baggage. 

As for the gay male erotic content that's a whole 'nother bag of nonsense. I know it's not a fetish, but same with every other targeted "genre" like BDSM, polyamory, various kinks, etc. it seems to mostly be written by people who know very little about what they're writing about... and often very little about good writing in general. I think that's a separate point from the teenage girl/fanfiction homoeroticism, even if they're both in the self-publishing space. I tend to read more conventional romances... historical fiction mainly. But I get the feeling a lot of these writers have baggage they haven't dealt with or at least they've internalized a lot of terrible societal messages. Way too many of these relationships are misogynistic and/or abusive and often those parts are even romanticized. I don't really read it but I can only imagine how bad it gets given how the characters are fetishized most of the time you read a romance that isn't about two white people. I imagine there's a lot of homophobia and misinformation that slips in.

[Unusual Suspect]

1 hour ago, methodwriter85 said:

You had me at Armie Hammer wearing a lime green mid-thigh swimsuit. And damn, their contrast in looks is hot.

... Dayum. *fans self*

[DisneyBoy]

I've been seeing a lot of talk online about Henry Cavill being gay. People seem convinced that his female relationships are all for show and I don't think that one day sighting shopping with Kelly Cuoco a while back did much to help that perception.

It got me thinking about how the public would respond to Superman being played by an actor who is openly gay. There was talk that Brandon Routh was gay or bi back when Superman Returns was in cinemas. Of course there was also talk about them having to digitally shrink his package so who knows how much any of that is true. But it's noteworthy to me that Routh hasn't had the best career since then. Some even say he only got the job as Superman because of the casting couch and Bryan Singer being gay. Again, who knows... and from a documentary I watched and things I've heard, Singer seems to be into really young guys anyhow. *side-eye*

In any event, the public seems to like Cavill and sympathize with the fact that his Superman has been completely hamstrung by crappy direction and writing. Would North America accept him if he came out and continue to play the role? Or would the studio flip out because of international markets and how it would affect the bottom line?

[starri]

On 7/30/2017 at 5:41 PM, DisneyBoy said:

That film was lame. It was a weak backdoor pilot for three new characters with nothing new about them who stole all the focus away from the original cast of characters who at the time were making their last appearances since the end of TNBA.

Not from Mysteries of the Batwoman.  Batman: Bad Blood, which introduced the modern Batwoman, Kate Kane, Bruce Wayne's cousin, kicked out of West Point for being a lesbian, trained by her ex-military father to be a one-woman army defending the children of Gotham City.

They've tweaked her origin a few times in the past ten years, but those are the basics  The movie itself is kind of run-of-the-mill, but she (and the re-introduction of her sometimes-girlfriend Renee Montoya) was awesome.

[Scarlett45]

21 hours ago, aradia22 said:

I don't think it's an accident that oftentimes the men (straight or gay) in question have a twink-like body type or could in some way be seen as more stereotypically feminine or sensitive or artistic. If I had to hazard a guess, it's not the male gaze that's eliminated but a more threatening, aggressive straight male sexuality. Perhaps it's also a way of (trying) to picture healthy relationships outside the confines of a male/female dynamic which has so much baggage. 

As a 31 year old heterosexual woman I most certainly agree with this. 

I am not certain who the original poster was (speak who spoke regarding his experience as a gay man), but women learn very very young (sadly) that with heterosexual sexual expression there is a risk of violence and a social power imbalance. We are taught to fear rape right after we learn our address. I think the visual representation of two men together (if the woman is heterosexual) is appealing because 1. More sexy male bodies, 2. The power dynamic/fear for your safety has been removed and 3. Heterosexual pornography and eroticism is designed for the straight male gaze- the WOMAN is objectified, with two men they are the objects towards each other. 

[Silver Raven]

In a Heartbeat, a short animation about young gay love.  The cartoon was crowd sourced.  After being released in July 31, it has over 8 million views.

[Unusual Suspect]

On 06/05/2017 at 1:00 PM, starri said:

...because that's all we get.

There's a podcast called BGM: Bad Gay Movies, Bitchy Gay Men that's kind of like How Did This Get Made for these little gay indies.  The content is kind of a bit too bitchy at times, and I've honestly disagreed with their assessments of quite a few of the films.  But they had an episode recently with an actor who's been in a few of the movies they've covered, and even he admitted "Yes, we know they're terrible."

Well, thanks. New podcast obsession. I'm loving the Toronto references and local recommendations.

[JBC344]

On ‎8‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 11:45 AM, DisneyBoy said:

I've been seeing a lot of talk online about Henry Cavill being gay. People seem convinced that his female relationships are all for show and I don't think that one day sighting shopping with Kelly Cuoco a while back did much to help that perception.

It got me thinking about how the public would respond to Superman being played by an actor who is openly gay. There was talk that Brandon Routh was gay or bi back when Superman Returns was in cinemas. Of course there was also talk about them having to digitally shrink his package so who knows how much any of that is true. But it's noteworthy to me that Routh hasn't had the best career since then. Some even say he only got the job as Superman because of the casting couch and Bryan Singer being gay. Again, who knows... and from a documentary I watched and things I've heard, Singer seems to be into really young guys anyhow. *side-eye*

In any event, the public seems to like Cavill and sympathize with the fact that his Superman has been completely hamstrung by crappy direction and writing. Would North America accept him if he came out and continue to play the role? Or would the studio flip out because of international markets and how it would affect the bottom line?

I've actually haven't heard anything about Henry Cavill being gay.  I'm wondering where that comes from?  Usually there is some sort of nonsensical event or behavior that tends to send the rags down that path.  Either way I'm still a fan but it would be interesting to see people's perceptions after the fact.  I remember a couple of years back before she passed away Jackie Collins revealed that Matt Bomer lost out on being Superman because he is gay and the producers thinking the public wouldn't buy a Superman played by a gay man. 

Just a sidenote, I'm a gay man living in LA and I can tell you Brandon Routh is definitely not Bryan Singers "type".

[Silver Raven]

Dutch-Tunisian actor Marwan Kenzari has been cast as Jafar in the live-action Aladdin

http://www.eonline.com/news/871510/marwan-kenzari-to-play-jafar-in-disney-s-live-action-aladdin

[aradia22]

He seems... attractive? And... young? Not like a heartthrob or anything but... it's Jafar, not Maleficent or Gaston. 

[Spartan Girl]

SNL's Nasim Pedrad is also going to play a new character, Jasmine's handmaiden.

So with the exception of Jasmine, so far this casting hasn't been too bad, right?

[Jazzy24]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

SNL's Nasim Pedrad is also going to play a new character, Jasmine's handmaiden.

So with the exception of Jasmine, so far this casting hasn't been too bad, right?

I'm not to mad about Jasmine's casting(that's my name :-) and one of my all time favorite Disney Princesses so don't mess this up Disney. 

 

Im more worried about how they are going to properly give an Islamic(?) though somewhat fictional culture respect on screen without any stereotypes and give it proper representation. Plus I hope that the sexualization of Jasmine is off screen completely. There is that all too familiar stereotype that WOC and different nationalities are over sexual and exotic. Jasmine was 15yr old in a Aladdin and she was probably the most sexualized in all the Disney movies. 

Edited August 5, 2017 by Jazzy24

[Spartan Girl]

I'm not that mad about Jasmine's casting either. I will reserve judgment until the final product. But I do hope they will have a sensitive portrayal of Islamic culture too.

Wait, Jasmine was 15 in the cartoon? Disney characters always look older than they are...

[Jazzy24]

19 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

I'm not that mad about Jasmine's casting either. I will reserve judgment until the final product. But I do hope they will have a sensitive portrayal of Islamic culture too.

Wait, Jasmine was 15 in the cartoon? Disney characters always look older than they are...

Yep, Jasmine is said to be 15 and Aladdin 18(crazy)

[Scarlett45]

22 hours ago, Jazzy24 said:

I'm not to mad about Jasmine's casting(that's my name :-) and one of my all time favorite Disney Princesses so don't mess this up Disney. 

 

Im more worried about how they are going to properly give an Islamic(?) though somewhat fictional culture respect on screen without any stereotypes and give it proper representation. Plus I hope that the sexualization of Jasmine is off screen completely. There is that all too familiar stereotype that WOC and different nationalities are over sexual and exotic. Jasmine was 15yr old in a Aladdin and she was probably the most sexualized in all the Disney movies. 

Yes Jasmine most certainly was. I was concerned before The Princess and the Frog came out but thankfully Tiana didn't get that treatment. She did get the "hard working black woman" treatment, BUT of all stereotypes at least it was a good one. 

@Spartan Girl Snow White was 14! And Aurora was celebrating her 16th birthday during most of the film (where as Jasmine was almost 16). 

[aradia22]

Quote

I'm not to mad about Jasmine's casting(that's my name :-) and one of my all time favorite Disney Princesses so don't mess this up Disney. 

 

Im more worried about how they are going to properly give an Islamic(?) though somewhat fictional culture respect on screen without any stereotypes and give it proper representation. Plus I hope that the sexualization of Jasmine is off screen completely. There is that all too familiar stereotype that WOC and different nationalities are over sexual and exotic. Jasmine was 15yr old in a Aladdin and she was probably the most sexualized in all the Disney movies. 

I'm in agreement. And yet suddenly I'm seeing why casting a younger Jafar makes sense to remove at least some of the ick. 

[methodwriter85]

On 8/4/2017 at 11:57 AM, JBC344 said:

I've actually haven't heard anything about Henry Cavill being gay.  I'm wondering where that comes from?  Usually there is some sort of nonsensical event or behavior that tends to send the rags down that path.  Either way I'm still a fan but it would be interesting to see people's perceptions after the fact.  I remember a couple of years back before she passed away Jackie Collins revealed that Matt Bomer lost out on being Superman because he is gay and the producers thinking the public wouldn't buy a Superman played by a gay man. 

Just a sidenote, I'm a gay man living in LA and I can tell you Brandon Routh is definitely not Bryan Singers "type".

Brandon Routh allegedly got fired from One Life to Live, way back in the day, because they were planning to do a gay love story with his character and he didn't want to play it. But then again, pretty soon after, he played a gay character in a love story on Cold Case, so maybe that fan theory isn't true. Or he realized that personal beliefs get trumped by the personal need to eat and have a roof over your head.

Brandon seems like he'd be too tall for sugar daddy type. They always seem to like twinky guys more- probably helps the son/daddy roleplaying.

Henry Cavill has never pinged my gaydar but whatever.

Conversely, Armie Hammer actually has but he's married to a woman and I'll take his word for it. I guess he's just metrosexual.

[Unusual Suspect]

45 minutes ago, methodwriter85 said:

Henry Cavill has never pinged my gaydar but whatever.

Conversely, Armie Hammer actually has but he's married to a woman and I'll take his word for it. I guess he's just metrosexual.

I thought I remembered an unflattering piece on Cavill, that he was only into acting for the ... attention of female groupies, shall we say. But between my memory and the nature of said article, I wouldn't take my word on the matter.

Armie Hammer just comes across as so comfortable in his own skin, that whatever he does is natural for him.

[Bastet]

2 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

Brandon Routh allegedly got fired from One Life to Live, way back in the day, because they were planning to do a gay love story with his character and he didn't want to play it. But then again, pretty soon after, he played a gay character in a love story on Cold Case, so maybe that fan theory isn't true. Or he realized that personal beliefs get trumped by the personal need to eat and have a roof over your head.

I'm not familiar with Brandon Routh, but I love Cold Case, so I just looked up which episode he was in.  As soon as I saw a picture of him, I recognized him as the victim's boyfriend in the episode, A Time to Hate.   That was a great episode, about a 1964 hate crime in which a (gay) college baseball player was beaten to death outside a gay bar (a bar that was constantly raided by the cops for being a gay bar).  Routh did a good job, but he was playing a closeted character, and we didn't see a lot of him.  So, he was playing a gay character involved in a romantic relationship, but wasn't actually acting any of that out.  So, if the OLTL rumor was true, him taking the CC role could have been, like you said, about paying the bills despite his personal issues, and he also could have drawn a distinction between a one-off role where he didn't have to be physically affectionate with a male co-star and an ongoing soap opera role.

(Like I said, I know nothing about him, but I know Cold Case like the back of my hand, so that jumped out at me.)

[aradia22]

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Henry Cavill has never pinged my gaydar but whatever.

Conversely, Armie Hammer actually has but he's married to a woman and I'll take his word for it. I guess he's just metrosexual.

I haven't gotten that from Cavill or Hammer but I feel that way about some Broadway actors. Ryan Silverman is married and has a daughter but still... https://www.instagram.com/ryanbsilverman/

[Silver Raven]

Has Jasmin's father been cast yet?

[JBC344]

7 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

Brandon Routh allegedly got fired from One Life to Live, way back in the day, because they were planning to do a gay love story with his character and he didn't want to play it. But then again, pretty soon after, he played a gay character in a love story on Cold Case, so maybe that fan theory isn't true. Or he realized that personal beliefs get trumped by the personal need to eat and have a roof over your head.

Brandon seems like he'd be too tall for sugar daddy type. They always seem to like twinky guys more- probably helps the son/daddy roleplaying.

Henry Cavill has never pinged my gaydar but whatever.

Conversely, Armie Hammer actually has but he's married to a woman and I'll take his word for it. I guess he's just metrosexual.

Yeah, I wouldn't be shocked if Armie was gay but I've personally never got that vibe from him. 

 

6 hours ago, Unusual Suspect said:

I thought I remembered an unflattering piece on Cavill, that he was only into acting for the ... attention of female groupies, shall we say. But between my memory and the nature of said article, I wouldn't take my word on the matter.

Armie Hammer just comes across as so comfortable in his own skin, that whatever he does is natural for him.

I so agree, he is someone who comes across as knowing exactly who he is.  Maybe it's his family's roots and famous/infamous history, or the fact that he spent some of his childhood raised in the Cayman Islands.  He tends to have a very cultured calming presence as opposed to an "in your face male energy" (good or bad).

[Luckylyn]

Brandon Routh played a gay character in Zack and Miri Make a Porno and was a gay character on the short lived tv show Partners.   He was the highlight on that show.

[galax-arena]

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And damn, their contrast in looks is hot.

See, I can't get behind the movie because Timothee Chalamet looks like a 14-year-old, while Armie Hammer looks like a thirtysomething. The age difference in the book (17 and 24) was bad enough!

The "In a Heartbeat" short is super cute. I've seen some grousing about sexualizing children's media. Dude, if you think that a middle school crush is suddenly unnecessarily sexualized just because it involves two people of the same sex, that sounds like a personal problem to me.  The sad thing is that it's not just rightwing assholes saying this.

Edited August 7, 2017 by galax-arena

[Proclone]

I watched a movie called Below Her Mouth (and even after watching I have no idea why it's called that) on Netflix last night and while it was apparently shown at TIFF, it's little more than soft-core lesbian porn.  And much like 50 Shades of Grey, it gives you way more plot with your porn than you ever wanted, but also like 50 Shades (though for very different reasons) the plot really annoyed me.  It's a typical straight girl meets lesbian, falls in love, leaves boyfriend (fiance, husband, whatever) story.  The thing that annoyed me is that the movie seemed to reinforce the idea that bisexuals don't exist.  Towards the end after Jasmine gets caught having sex with Dallas, by her fiance, Rile (I swear I'm not making up these names), Rile comments that she must be a lesbian because she enjoying having sex with the female Dallas so much.  She never corrects him (just tells him that things can go back to the way they were).  Later another character comments that she's straight because she chose her fiance over Dallas.  No one, including Jasmine, ever brings up the possibility that she's bisexual and was sincerely in love and attracted to her fiance prior to meeting Dallas.  No, the implication throughout the movie is that Jasmine is a closeted lesbian that was never really attracted to her fiance and was deluding herself.  And while I'm not saying that never happens, it just reinforces the unfortunate implication that bisexuals don't exist or that bisexuality is a stop on the road to gay.  I hate the idea that sexuality is this strictly binary thing (the way it's often portrayed in media).  You're straight or your gay, one or zero.  If you don't identify as either, you're confused or denying who you really are.  Human sexuality is way more complicated than that.  And  when fiction does admit that bisexuality exists, there's been really few depictions in TV or movies that don't include the character being very promiscuous or cheating on their partner.  When it is a character that we're supposed to root for, their bisexuality (it's usually just mentioned as a past relationship) is generally used to show how edgy and/or how much of a free spirit they are.  I would love to see an normal, average, well adjusted person who just happens to date both men in woman in the media.  The recent, Atomic Blonde, actually comes pretty close.  The main character is bisexual and it's never really a big deal, but I'm not sure I could describe Lorraine as normal, average, or well adjusted.  * Edited to Add*  And while I'd like not to be cynical and give the film makers credit, I have a feeling that the idea of being able to give Charlize Theron and Sofia Boutella a fanservice-y love scene probably played into the decision to make the character bisexual more than a sincere desire to present bisexuality in a positive light.

Edited August 7, 2017 by Proclone

[Unusual Suspect]

May I recommend Bedrooms and Hallways? It's not perfect, but it's a charming movie that definitely has fluid characters. Also, best dream sequence ever.