Gimme That Old Time Religion

[mimionthebeach]

On 2018-07-10 at 12:54 PM, Ijustwantsomechips said:

I read about this in an article on mikvahs. It has to do with the unfertilized egg not bringing forth life, hence death and uncleanliness during the period or something to that effect. Since the girl child would also carry unfertilized eggs, maybe that’s the reason for the longer wait period.  

 

The bible predates discoveries related to the biological mechanisms of reproduction, so that sounds like backsplaining to me. I'll continue to attribute these edicts to misogyny and fear. 

[Ijustwantsomechips]

1 minute ago, mimionthebeach said:

The bible predates discoveries related to the biological mechanisms of reproduction, so that sounds like backsplaining to me. I'll continue to attribute these edicts to misogyny and fear. 

I would assume it was from the Talmud or some midrash, but I couldn’t be sure.  Most likely it’s just misogyny like so many ancient customs.

[Temperance]

5 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

One thing about the Duggar kids that always amazed me when they were younger, was their seemingly total adherence to their parent's religious rules.  As a teen growing up fundie, whenever fundie teens gathered and discussed things in private, we were so NOT into that kind of thing.  We played our popular music (my parents did allow me to do that, but some didn't), discussed prohibited activities, and generally poked funny of those fanatics, as we called them. Those who had to follow the rules did, but, it was under protest.   We could hardly wait to get old enough to get AWAY from that stuff. And, most did. From my peers, I know of no one who stayed fundie after turning 18!  Most of what was seen at church and for the public was fake and I never developed any respect for it.  Most of us went on to other denominations with a kinder message and liberal approach.  When I see how almost all the Duggar kids emulate their parents......omg. It's just so bizarre to me. 

 

Well if they did step a toe or two out of line, it would be on television so Michelle and JB would find out about it. I'm sure they used television cameras (as well as the household cameras) to see how their children behaved and if something needed correcting. 

It surprises how many of the young people I know, who are fundie-lite from childhood have remained that way.  The one family had strict rules about their adult children not moving out until marriage and that seems to have helped, but I don't really know how the other families stayed that way.

Edited July 12, 2018 by Temperance

[SunnyBeBe]

Sadly, many of the fundie kids that I grew up with suffered a lot of problems.  They ranged from substance abuse, mental illness and instability. I was very fortunate to make it out okay.

  Some of the fundie churches have progressed though. My parents church/school recently sponsored a 1950's style program, complete with songs about Rock'n'Roll, lite dancing, dating, kissing, etc. Sort of a G rated Grease play.  Of course, before it started they announced that they in no way supported rock music or anything naughty.....lol.  I was shocked, but, it was really good. 

[Lady Edith]

Oh lort.

I saw this on Pickles. Some woman re-wrote the Harry Potter story to be more “family friendly” read: fundamentalist. 

https://m.fanfiction.net/s/10644439/2/

Harry Potter will not turn her kids into witches. The spells were made from contractions of words, from different languages primarily English and Latin. It’s not satanic language (as if there was such a thing).  

She wrecked a perfectly good story for the sake of...well...I don’t know. 

[latetotheparty]

3 hours ago, Lady Edith said:

Oh lort.

I saw this on Pickles. Some woman re-wrote the Harry Potter story to be more “family friendly” read: fundamentalist. 

https://m.fanfiction.net/s/10644439/2/

Harry Potter will not turn her kids into witches. The spells were made from contractions of words, from different languages primarily English and Latin. It’s not satanic language (as if there was such a thing).  

She wrecked a perfectly good story for the sake of...well...I don’t know. 

It’s FFN, not surprised. 

[allonsyalice]

4 hours ago, Lady Edith said:

Oh lort.

I saw this on Pickles. Some woman re-wrote the Harry Potter story to be more “family friendly” read: fundamentalist. 

https://m.fanfiction.net/s/10644439/2/

Harry Potter will not turn her kids into witches. The spells were made from contractions of words, from different languages primarily English and Latin. It’s not satanic language (as if there was such a thing).  

She wrecked a perfectly good story for the sake of...well...I don’t know. 

I am wholly speechless. In the next chapter this line appears

Quote

So different from all the girls in public school; who were focused on trying to be like the career women they saw on The Sex and the City.

That’s a good, relevant reference for your children to understand. Very good. 

[queenanne]

9 hours ago, Lady Edith said:

Oh lort.

I saw this on Pickles. Some woman re-wrote the Harry Potter story to be more “family friendly” read: fundamentalist. 

https://m.fanfiction.net/s/10644439/2/

Harry Potter will not turn her kids into witches. The spells were made from contractions of words, from different languages primarily English and Latin. It’s not satanic language (as if there was such a thing).  

She wrecked a perfectly good story for the sake of...well...I don’t know. 

I frankly couldn't make it to the spells but, I'll just leave this here:

Quote

"How will we get to this school, Hagrid?" Harry queried curiously.

"We will pray," Hagrid retorted knowledgeably.

"How do we do that?" Harry solicited inquisitively.

Aside:  I wanted to say, that aren't some of the Rowling spells just wordplay?  Just like "Diagon Alley", is so clearly a creative corruption of "Diagonally", I thought that "Avada Kedavra", for one example, was so clearly meant to be a corruption (or purification, depending upon your point of view) of "Abracadabra".  (I mean, given my above examples we've got worse to contend with in the pantheon of crimes against literature, as clearly this lady hasn't made it past that deleterious and hideous middle school lecture we all got on "choosing 'colorful' speech tags to keep your readers from 'being bored'", but I just wanted to throw that out there while I thought of it.)

Edited July 14, 2018 by queenanne
sorry, I can't fix this quote box!

[Triple P]

I read all 14 chapters of the HP fundamental fanfic.

Highlights(?):

Harry is saved in the first chapter. It seems the KJV bible was downloaded to his brain because he is soon quoting scripture and understands how to apply it to his daily life.

Dumbledore and McGonagall are married and Hermione is their daughter.

Dean Thomas says everything intelligently and pronounces each word of "That's alright" correctly. (It is not clear if he is black in this story, but if he is, I sense some covert racism here.)

The Slytherins are Catholics. Their leader doesn't really love them because he is a Socialist and doesn't really know the Bible and the U.S. constitution. (Hogwarts has been moved to the U.S.)

The Weasleys are irresponsible for having too many children, which I found to be a surprising judgement, but they are Slytherins (Catholic) in this story.

Luna is a vegetarian hippy Democrat and biblical cherry picker . She eats fake bacon, which Harry thinks is morally reprehensible. (There is a lot of focus on bacon.)

It is ok to treat the Lord like a short order cook when it is time to eat. The Lord knows exactly how to make potatoes just like your Grandma used to. Also you don't need to walk anywhere, just pray to the Lord to take you there, even if it is just from the front hall to the kitchen.

Voldemort is trying to persecute Christians by forcing anti-Christian laws through Congress. But at the end, he turns out to be only an atheist Reddit troll, who wears sweatpants and drives an eco-friendly car?

If you aren't saved you will become a drug-addicted Evolutionist. This will happen because your mom had a career.

The author doesn't know the meaning of "retorted".

She clearly has the hots for Snape. He is the "right" kind of Christian (Gryffindor, adheres to the KJV bible), his chest hair is described in detail, and she mistakenly refers to him as Greg (her husband) at the end of one chapter. Oh and you won't believe this, but he wears shoes on BOTH his feet!! SQUEEE!

She recommends the "life-changing" book, Made to be His Helpmeet by Debi Pearl to show that she doesn't hate women. 

At chapter 3 or 4, the author says she wasn't sure if she should continue writing, but her husband, Greg/Snape, wants her to continue with the Lord's work.

Then at chapter 6 or 7, she starts taking a writing class, with a male instructor. At the final chapter (14), she recounts a discussion with her husband and it is decided that the writing class and fan fiction is preventing her from meeting her wifely and motherly duties and the project is dropped. Plus she stayed after class a few times to have her teacher review her work.

And in response to some readers' questions, she reassures us that she doesn't own Harry Potter. He is J.K. Rowling's creation.

Edited July 14, 2018 by Triple P
Spelling

[cmr2014]

I would say that this is got to be some kind of hoax and we're being punked, but 14 chapters is a little long for a joke.

She took a class? She gave this to a teacher to read? That poor guy must have gotten carpal tunnel from crossing out adverbs (and they all came back anyway!).

[queenanne]

5 hours ago, cmr2014 said:

I would say that this is got to be some kind of hoax and we're being punked, but 14 chapters is a little long for a joke.

She took a class? She gave this to a teacher to read? That poor guy must have gotten carpal tunnel from crossing out adverbs (and they all came back anyway!).

If she is serious, read: joking, she's in fact very talented, because it's tough to write that badly on purpose, I retort.

[Jynnan tonnix]

4 hours ago, cmr2014 said:

I would say that this is got to be some kind of hoax and we're being punked, but 14 chapters is a little long for a joke.

She took a class? She gave this to a teacher to read? That poor guy must have gotten carpal tunnel from crossing out adverbs (and they all came back anyway!).

I only read the first couple of chapters, but it strikes me as obvious parody. It's pretty hilarious, and so much of the pointed commentary on thee unsaved is just too ham-handed not to have been intentionally exaggerated,  ("Five years down the road, Harry might have been a fornicating, drug-addicted Evolutionist!", for example).

If you read it with the mindset of it being parody to start with, it all makes sense. But that's Poe's law in action for you https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Poe's Law .

[queenanne]

2 hours ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

I only read the first couple of chapters, but it strikes me as obvious parody. It's pretty hilarious, and so much of the pointed commentary on thee unsaved is just too ham-handed not to have been intentionally exaggerated,  ("Five years down the road, Harry might have been a fornicating, drug-addicted Evolutionist!", for example).

If you read it with the mindset of it being parody to start with, it all makes sense. But that's Poe's law in action for you https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Poe's Law .

My only problem with thinking it a joke or parody is, surely by now this writer wants the credit for being this clever, no?  A quick Google showed only people taking it seriously (including an article by the Daily Mail!), instead of my expected "some corner of LiveJournal/forums/Wiki out there which outs the author", though happy to be proven wrong.

[Jynnan tonnix]

15 minutes ago, queenanne said:

My only problem with thinking it a joke or parody is, surely by now this writer wants the credit for being this clever, no?  A quick Google showed only people taking it seriously (including an article by the Daily Mail!), instead of my expected "some corner of LiveJournal/forums/Wiki out there which outs the author", though happy to be proven wrong.

Who knows...maybe the author is secretly relishing the act of sitting back, watching people taking it seriously, and noting the reactions from both sides. Is there any info on the author out there at all, or are all the discussions just those responding to the story? As much as you can't ever believe someone is exactly who they portray themselves as online, I wouldn't put it past someone to concoct an alternate fundie identity for the purpose of writing a story like this then watching the fireworks. I mean, yes, it's possible that it's all on the up-and-up, but it just doesn't read that way to me. 

[Triple P]

2 hours ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

Who knows...maybe the author is secretly relishing the act of sitting back, watching people taking it seriously, and noting the reactions from both sides. Is there any info on the author out there at all, or are all the discussions just those responding to the story? As much as you can't ever believe someone is exactly who they portray themselves as online, I wouldn't put it past someone to concoct an alternate fundie identity for the purpose of writing a story like this then watching the fireworks. I mean, yes, it's possible that it's all on the up-and-up, but it just doesn't read that way to me. 

That is definitely a possibility.

In the final chapter, Voldemort states that he likes being a Reddit troll because he likes stirring things up. He is poking fun at Christians and and anti-Christians. Still, Dumbledore shames him when he can't properly support his reasoning. (People who are not the "right" kind of Christian are always too dumb and uneducated to support their reasoning.) Voldemort walks away, destined to always be a fornicating, drug-addicted Evolutionist.

There is an intro at the beginning of each chapter in which the author tells the reader about what is going on in her life in order to explain why it is taking her so long to post each chapter. I got the info about her husband's opinions and the writing classes from the intros. I didn't read any of the comments on the chapters. I am not that much of a glutton for punishment!

Something that made me think it is a parody is that the author opines that Rowling's Dumbledore is presented as unflawed and always right, so it is terrible that the kids disobey him. In her story, it is ok that they are occassionally disobient because Dumbledore's thinking is flawed since he accepts all Christians into Hogwarts in an effort to unite them against Voldemort. Or the author hasn't read the books or seen the movies after The Chamber of Secrets.

I forgot fornicating in my original post. Thank you @queenanne. FYI, you must retort pleasantly or knowingly, if you are to retort at all! ?

Edited July 14, 2018 by Triple P

[cmr2014]

6 hours ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

I only read the first couple of chapters, but it strikes me as obvious parody. It's pretty hilarious, and so much of the pointed commentary on thee unsaved is just too ham-handed not to have been intentionally exaggerated,  ("Five years down the road, Harry might have been a fornicating, drug-addicted Evolutionist!", for example).

If you read it with the mindset of it being parody to start with, it all makes sense. But that's Poe's law in action for you https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Poe's Law .

Okay, I read through to the end, and you're right. I still think that the poster has too much time on his/her hands, and that it went on too long, but the last chapter makes it very clear that it's a parody.

[satrunrose]

15 hours ago, queenanne said:

15 hours ago, queenanne said:

"How will we get to this school, Hagrid?" Harry queried curiously.

"We will pray," Hagrid retorted knowledgeably.

"How do we do that?" Harry solicited inquisitively.

So, to clarify, if we pray hard enough, will we be transported to Real Hogwarts or creepy fundy Hogwarts? 'Cause if it's the former I guess I'm off to church! (j/k)

[queenanne]

4 hours ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

Who knows...maybe the author is secretly relishing the act of sitting back, watching people taking it seriously, and noting the reactions from both sides. Is there any info on the author out there at all, or are all the discussions just those responding to the story? As much as you can't ever believe someone is exactly who they portray themselves as online, I wouldn't put it past someone to concoct an alternate fundie identity for the purpose of writing a story like this then watching the fireworks. I mean, yes, it's possible that it's all on the up-and-up, but it just doesn't read that way to me. 

It looks like this so-and-so had a brief flurry of answering questions on Reddit, but in more of the same vein, so not really!  Maybe they were more interested in lampooning fundamentalists than Harry Potter?  In which case I suppose it would make sense they're not a secret well-known underground HP fanfic author.

[Jynnan tonnix]

3 minutes ago, queenanne said:

It looks like this so-and-so had a brief flurry of answering questions on Reddit, but in more of the same vein, so not really!  Maybe they were more interested in lampooning fundamentalists than Harry Potter?  In which case I suppose it would make sense they're not a secret well-known underground HP fanfic author.

That's pretty much my thinking. The whole thing is just so over-the-top awful in various directions, from the fundie stuff to the writing style that it's really kind of brilliant.

[Lady Edith]

But...the CHEST HAIR!!!!  The CLOSELY CROPPED CHEST HAIR!!!!!  My question is, if Snape is wearing a black suit and a red tie, how in Hogwarts is anyone able to see his chest hair?  Let alone, know that it is closely cropped?

Angels bring the mail... I’m sure they have bigger and better things to do with their time. 

The thing is, I’m not so sure of the parody thing.  There is enough twisted thinking going on in this cult for this to be real...

[sixlets]

@Triple P, thank you for taking one for the team!  I have never read any of the HP books, and I've only seen about 15 minutes of one of the movies.  I'm not a fan of movies in general, and I tend to only read non-fiction and auto/biographies.  I can't tell if this woman is an awesome troll or so deeply entrenched in cult thinking.  Does she say how long it took her to write all 14 chapters?  Either way, that's some dedication.  

[Jynnan tonnix]

4 hours ago, Lady Edith said:

But...the CHEST HAIR!!!!  The CLOSELY CROPPED CHEST HAIR!!!!!  My question is, if Snape is wearing a black suit and a red tie, how in Hogwarts is anyone able to see his chest hair?  Let alone, know that it is closely cropped?

Angels bring the mail... I’m sure they have bigger and better things to do with their time. 

The thing is, I’m not so sure of the parody thing.  There is enough twisted thinking going on in this cult for this to be real...

I didn't get that far, but may have to bite the bullet...Having a definite "thing" for Snape in the form of Alan Rickman, I'm really rather interested in how much lechery she might have managed to bury in the fundie language there! LOL

[queenanne]

I'm busy wondering, if men actually "crop" their chest hair at all!

I mean, I can see them shaving it, or even waxing it if they're swimmers and divers, etc., but... "cropping"?  Like, with nail scissors or something??

[awaken]

Maybe hair clippers, so it’s shadow, but for the chest?!

[Triple P]

1 hour ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

I didn't get that far, but may have to bite the bullet...Having a definite "thing" for Snape in the form of Alan Rickman, I'm really rather interested in how much lechery she might have managed to bury in the fundie language there! LOL

Here are the physical descriptions of Mr. Snape:

Now, at the beginning of the breakfast meal, Harry had noticed, a tall, mysterious-looking man with long dark hair and gaunt, enigmatic features. He was dressed stylishly in a crisp, black suit; and his tie made a shock of red in the otherwise totally black outfit. The dark hair on his pale chest was neatly trimmed but still noticeably thick; and he wore elegant, black leather shoes on both of his feet. It was now that he noticed that, on the table that this man was sitting at, was a placard that said on it, "Mr. Snape."

Mr. Snape looked over in their direction and he saw the commotion that was going on at that moment. He was dressed very dapperly today in a freshly pressed dress shirt and practical pants that complimented his long, muscular legs perfectly. Above the top button of his shirt a hint of the thick carpet underneath was visible. He carried with him a big, heavy, King James Version of the Bible as he sauntered across the cafeteria.

[Sew Sumi]

I never read Harry Potter or seen the movies, but it's getting harder and harder to resist the siren's call of this fanfic.

Edited July 15, 2018 by Sew Sumi

[Nysha]

23 minutes ago, Triple P said:

he wore elegant, black leather shoes on both of his feet.

I'm guessing she thinks the unsaved masses typically wear mismatched shoes? He's got a red tie on, but "the thick carpet underneath was visible"? Yet, in the previous paragraph his chest hair was closely cropped?

[Zella]

7 minutes ago, Nysha said:

I'm guessing she thinks the unsaved masses typically wear mismatched shoes? He's got a red tie on, but "the thick carpet underneath was visible"? Yet, in the previous paragraph his chest hair was closely cropped?

I can't get over what kind of suit he must be wearing that would include a tie but display so much of his chest! LOL

[kalamac]

36 minutes ago, Zella said:

I can't get over what kind of suit he must be wearing that would include a tie but display so much of his chest! LOL

 

[Zella]

8 minutes ago, kalamac said:

 

Bahaha that would do it! :D

[Future Cat Lady]

It seems that Harry is the one who notices the chest hair. That’s disturbing. 

[Jynnan tonnix]

7 hours ago, Zella said:

Bahaha that would do it! :D

But in that case, we'd probably get a description of his nipples as well...

[satrunrose]

9 minutes ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

But in that case, we'd probably get a description of his nipples as well...

No, no silly! "Thick carpets" of chest hair are manly and therefore Godly. Ladies have nipples too, which makes them dirty and unmentionable.

On the fundy or parody question, I honestly can't tell. The description of "Mr" Snape seems to owe way more to Fifty Shades than to Harry Potter, though.

[kokapetl]

“No sooner had the thought crossed his mind when the Reverend Dumbledore came onto the Great Hall's stage; and dropped down to his knees; and raised his hands skyward; and screamed , "DEAR LORD, PLEASE PROVIDE THESE DEVOUT YOUNG ONES WITH THREE STRIPS OF BACON OR LINKS OF SAUSAGE EACH-TWO FOR THE LADIES-A BOWL OF HARDY OATMEAL FLAVORED WITH CINNAMON AND APPLE CHUNKS; TWO POACHED EGGS COOKED ALL THE WAY THROUGH; HOME FRIES SEASONED WITH GARLIC; A GLASS EACH OF ORANGE JUICE AND MILK; AND DISHES UP TO THE TASK."”

WTF

Gotta keep those witches trim, I guess. And bacon or sausage, it’s your choice my Lord. And this breakfast is totally culturally authentic for the UK. No way would dumbledore say “sausages”.

Added the all caps since rev dumbledore did scream.  

Edited July 15, 2018 by kokapetl

[Triple P]

2 hours ago, kokapetl said:

Gotta keep those witches trim, I guess. And bacon or sausage, it’s your choice my Lord. And this breakfast is totally culturally authentic for the UK. No way would dumbledore say “sausages”.

Ah, but Hogwarts is in the U.S. in this story! I think it might be in Texas, where the author lives. 

[satrunrose]

3 hours ago, kokapetl said:

“No sooner had the thought crossed his mind when the Reverend Dumbledore came onto the Great Hall's stage; and dropped down to his knees; and raised his hands skyward; and screamed , "DEAR LORD, PLEASE PROVIDE THESE DEVOUT YOUNG ONES WITH THREE STRIPS OF BACON OR LINKS OF SAUSAGE EACH-TWO FOR THE LADIES-A BOWL OF HARDY OATMEAL FLAVORED WITH CINNAMON AND APPLE CHUNKS; TWO POACHED EGGS COOKED ALL THE WAY THROUGH; HOME FRIES SEASONED WITH GARLIC; A GLASS EACH OF ORANGE JUICE AND MILK; AND DISHES UP TO THE TASK."”

WTF

Gotta keep those witches trim, I guess. And bacon or sausage, it’s your choice my Lord. And this breakfast is totally culturally authentic for the UK. No way would dumbledore say “sausages”.

Added the all caps since rev dumbledore did scream.  

Sigh... Can someone tell me where in the most holy KJV God promisses hot breakfast to those who scream their prayers? Was that part edited out in my NRSV? Is that what makes it evil?  What is it with these people!? The Bible must be interpreted literally. It is the only source of everything, but we can completely make up random crap about God being a Denny's short order cook? What happened to take up your cross and follow me?

[kokapetl]

1 hour ago, Triple P said:

Ah, but Hogwarts is in the U.S. in this story! I think it might be in Texas, where the author lives. 

My God you’re right 

“The Reverend beamed. "Why thank you, little one!" His voice had a distinctive southern twang to it that made Harry feel so safe and welcome. He knew in that moment that the Reverend was a man of God.”

”

"My father says that dark times are coming," Hermione spoke worriedly. "There is a man named Voldemort who wants to destroy all that we stand for. He is pushing an agenda in congress which will stop us from practicing our faith freely."

"But that is what our founding fathers built this nation for!" Harry cried indignantly. "The freedom of religion!"

”Harry Potter walked back to the table of redheads. It was only now that he noticed that they were all wearing black and green baseball caps with snakes on them”

”After that was lunch in the Great Hall. After lunch were more classes about American History; and Constitutional Law; and Missionary Training.”

”Dean Thomas nodded sagely and muttered to himself in disgust, "First they try to change the Pledge of Allegiance. Now they don't want us to be Christians. Next they'll be killing us all. It's a bad time to be a true Christian in America."

”Harry gasped; and Dean Thomas gasped too; and Hermione burst into tears; as Voldemort ambled through the parking lot.”

So is Hogwarts now in a castle in Texas? How on earth could there be castles in Texas?

Edited July 15, 2018 by kokapetl

[Lady Edith]

I guess there ARE castles in Texas, after all... 

https://austinot.com/texas-hill-country-castles

But the question remains, why is there a parking lot?  Don’t they just pray their way to places?  ?

[kokapetl]

20 hours ago, Lady Edith said:

I guess there ARE castles in Texas, after all... 

https://austinot.com/texas-hill-country-castles

But the question remains, why is there a parking lot?  Don’t they just pray their way to places?  ?

Harry Potter first attends Hogwarts in 1991. Those Texan castles weren’t even built in 1991. 

[Ohiopirate02]

I found this today at work.  This would probably be a reason for JB not to send his kids off to college even a "Christian" one. 

https://lithub.com/aisha-tyler-on-possibly-the-worst-night-of-her-comedy-life/

[questionfear]

It scares me as well - I watch a fair number of atheist podcasts and debates, and while I realize that some of their statistics, etc, may be somewhat biased, I keep trying to figure out what would push someone to retreat so far into that, as you say, insular sort of Christianity. Some of them seem barely short of being Flat Earthers - and, in fact even the Flat Earthers are gaining adherents.

I saw one talk by Neil deGrasse Tyson on YouTube about a year ago, and wish I could find it again - I've found a couple of similar ones, but this one was done particularly well  - following the history of Christianity and Islam, and the way the era of the Inqusitions led to the Dark Ages in which Science, which had been poised to make some major advances, was demonized, and so much knowledge lost for centuries. I've never had a particularly good grasp of History, and have forgotten some of the details since I watched it, but Islam was, in fact, the far more enlightened civilization during that period, and much of the mathematics and science we use today had its roots in that part of the world. Since those days, of course, they have plunged into Dark Ages of their own, and I fear Christianity is about to follow suit. The pieces are certainly falling into place that way.  I simply can't fathom the sort of fear which makes retreating into ignorance preferable to pushing forward with knowledge.

This is very true. I took a class in college called something like "A history of violence in western civilization", and we spent a good chunk of time comparing crusades-era Christian writing with early Islamic writing. If you didn't know anything about either religion outside of those writings, you would be seriously frightened by Christianity and see Islam as a beautiful and peaceful religion. 

I have said this many, many times, but as a lesbian Jewish woman in America in 2018, I am in far more danger from fundie and evangelical Christians than I am from Islam, so the Islamaphobes can shove it up their asses. The vast majority of all major religions just want to be left alone to practice in peace, but the fundies are hell bent on converting everyone, and their attempts to put a stranglehold on secular law make them a very immediate threat that can and has caused real damage to my life and to the lives of many of my friends.

[GeeGolly]

https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/life/a22800075/pure-book-excerpt-author-linda-kay-klein/

I just read an article/short excerpt from a book. The book was about purity, while the article was interesting it really didn't apply to the Duggars aside from purity and Christianity. Until one paragraph that stopped me in my tracks, a paragraph not about purity, but one describing the setting where a conversation takes place: 

“Should we check it and see if it’s ready to eat?” she asked as she opened the oven door and pulled out a chicken dish heaped with seasoned cheese and cream of mushroom soup."

[Lady Edith]

So this nice long weekend I’m with my kiddos at our summer place. My youngest and I went to the grocery store.  A large family walked ahead of us, cutting me off and making me nearly crash into them with my cart.  Not an apology to be heard. So I noticed each of the seven kids...girls wore long sleeved shirts and heavy, long (ankle length), denim skirts with socks and sneakers in 90 degree heat.  Long hair pulled up in tight buns, including mom.  The boys in polo shirts and jeans.  Dad was also in the same attire.  All looked miserable except for a young teen daughter (maybe 13).  She was bee-poppin’ along to the music playing over the speakers.  Mom stopped cold in her tracks and said “Stop it now.  We don’t do that”.  Daughter looked like she was just caught doing something horrible.  I felt so badly for her.  The girl wasn’t even dancing, just walking with a bounce to the music.  It made me so sad to see.  

Faith should make you feel free, not oppressed.  

[Ijustwantsomechips]

What a jerk!  There’s a reason babies shake and jook naturally to the sound of music;it’s because it’s NATURAL!!! I love these fundies ignore all references to dancing amd making a joyful noise unto the Lord in the Bible. They really cherry pick what they want from the Bible. 

[MamaMax]

On 8/27/2018 at 7:33 PM, GeeGolly said:

https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/life/a22800075/pure-book-excerpt-author-linda-kay-klein/

I just read an article/short excerpt from a book. The book was about purity, while the article was interesting it really didn't apply to the Duggars aside from purity and Christianity. Until one paragraph that stopped me in my tracks, a paragraph not about purity, but one describing the setting where a conversation takes place: 

“Should we check it and see if it’s ready to eat?” she asked as she opened the oven door and pulled out a chicken dish heaped with seasoned cheese and cream of mushroom soup."

https://www.npr.org/2018/09/18/648737143/memoirist-evangelical-purity-movement-sees-womens-bodies-as-a-threat

 

I listened to this the other day and MANY MANY times I was reminded of the Duggars. VERY interesting.

[Zella]

5 hours ago, MamaMax said:

https://www.npr.org/2018/09/18/648737143/memoirist-evangelical-purity-movement-sees-womens-bodies-as-a-threat

 

I listened to this the other day and MANY MANY times I was reminded of the Duggars. VERY interesting.

I got to listen to part of this, too, and also thought of the Duggars! Thanks for posting this--reminds me I wanted to read the book. 

[Churchhoney]

The backers of that anti-social-justice document Jer signed are really on a tear these days. He's tweeted some articles from their website, and of course his idol John MacArthur is one of the big spokespeople, and they really seem to be getting themselves into a frenzy about some apparent swelling interest in social justice by -- horrors! -- evangelical churches. Must be some hellish conspiracy by Catholics and the mainline Protestants to taint the evangelicals and drag them down to hell too! 

ICYMI, here's MacArthur proclaiming that evangelical churches are all about respect for diversity -- 

'Continuing his controversial series on the social justice movement among Christians, Pastor John MacArthur says he had no idea racism was a problem in the evangelical church until the rise of the "social justice" movement four years ago."Four years ago, I would not have thought it possible for Bible-believing evangelicals to be divided over the issue of racism. As Christians we stand together in our affirmation of the second great commandment ('You shall love your neighbor as yourself'—Leviticus 19:18). We therefore stand together against every hint of racial animus," wrote MacArthur who leads Grace Community Church in California, as well as The Master's College and Seminary, on Monday.While admitting that racism is a "stain on American history" with lingering vestiges, MacArthur argues that civil rights legislation now guards equal rights for all Americans.He says while he can understand why those in secular culture will seek to fight racism under the banner of social justice, he sees no reason for evangelicals to take up that cause because he has never seen racism as a problem in any authentic evangelical church."I understand when fallen, worldly people filled with resentment lash out at others that way. I don't understand why Bible-believing Christians would take up that cause. I thought the evangelical church was living out true unity in Christ without regard for race," MacArthur said."That has certainly been my experience in every church I've ever been part of, and it's also what I have seen in the wider evangelical world. I don't know of any authentically evangelical church where people would be excluded or even disrespected because of their ethnicity or skin color," he continued.'

https://www.christianpost.com/news/john-macarthur-says-he-doesnt-know-any-authentic-evangelical-church-where-racism-is-a-problem-227084/

And then there's an ever-growing collection of little gems like this from the group that put out the big letter of opposition _-- 

https://statementonsocialjustice.com/articles/social-justice-is-an-attack-on-the-sufficiency-of-scripture/

"Social Justice Allows Victimology to Replace Theology

It must not be understated that one of the central problems with the social justice agenda is its fascination with victimology. In many ways, the evangelical version of social justice is following in the footsteps of the secular version. Colin Kaepernick, a former quarterback in the NFL, was unsuccessful as an athlete, but eventually became the face of the National Anthem protest that was greatly controversial. Although he was unsuccessful as a professional athlete, Kaepernick has become the face of a movement and is now one of the leading faces of the Nike corporation. How did Kaepernick receive a lucrative contract from Nike? It wasn’t because of his performance on the football field, it was because of the fact that he took a knee as a victim to “systemic racism.”

There is power in victimhood, and many women have come to recognize that reality. Following closely behind racism is the oppression of women. Within evangelicalism there has been a sudden surge among women who want to have their voices heard too. More than that, they expect absolute equality of roles and position across denominational lines. This trend for women under the banner of social justice was fueled by Beth Moore who wrote an article titled, “A Letter to My Brothers” at the beginning of this summer. In the article she complained of mistreatment and systemic oppression within the evangelical community.

Her letter resulted in a flood of support from major evangelical leaders and a massive tidal wave of support from her fans across evangelicalism. Thabiti Anyabwile responded with an open apology letter titled, “An Apology to Beth Moore and My Sisters.” In his letter Thabiti Anyabwile writes:

I do now commit to being a more outspoken champion for my sisters and for you personally. Not that you need me to be but because it is right. I hope, with God’s help, to grow in sanctification, especially with regards to any sexism, misogyny, chauvinism, and the like that has used biblical teaching as a cover for its growth.

Dear Beth, and all my sisters, I hope you will forgive me.

Just like that—a new wave of “women empowerment” and “women equality” was fueled. It was one more example of how to use victimhood as a means of moving forward into greater success. I’m not at all suggesting that people haven’t mistreated or misrepresented Beth Moore in person or online, but the victim card is the new method of instant success. Beth Moore’s move was one that not only helped her, but it added a great deal of momentum behind conversations regarding how women should serve in evangelical conferences, in denominational positions, and within the local church. Suddenly, a large percentage of people within evangelical circles are rethinking the historic position of complementarianism.

Other groups are quickly following behind seeking to get a seat at the social justice table as well. One such group is the “LGBT Christian” group who claims to be oppressed within evangelicalism and is demanding that we redeem queer culture (the language used in the recent Revoice conference) and embrace them as brothers and sisters in Christ. There is no avoiding the issues in the social justice agenda—and it quickly becomes a slippery slope that leads to disaster. Many different voices are claiming to be oppressed and are demanding an apology for their victim status.

Social Justice claims to run to the aid of the oppressed and the victims of discrimination, racism, and other evils of society. What Christian doesn’t want to help the oppressed? What Christian wants to turn their back upon the evils of discrimination and racism? The problem with the social justice movement is that it leads to oppression rather than liberation. Social justice fuels the idea of victim status while promoting false ideas of systemic racism and systemic oppression of women within evangelicalism. Finally, social justice often uses political methods and cultural ideas as the answer to these problems rather than the sufficient Word of God."

 

I guess the good news is that this level of panic from the straight-white-male-dominated organs suggests that elsewhere in the evangelical world, some people ARE beginning to wake up to sexism, racism, etc. ... I mean, How DARE anybody intimate that any of these guys has ever oppressed them!!!!?  

[Absolom]

48 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Suddenly, a large percentage of people within evangelical circles are rethinking the historic position of complementarianism.

Well thank the Lord for that, John!  I love his astonishment that women might actually think they're worth the same value, recognition, and treatment as men.   If they let women think that, then everyone else is going to want equal treatment, too.  Can't have that.  

[awaken]

Wow wow wow. I feel ill after reading that. I wish they could see how incredibly unlike Jesus they are. 

[Sew Sumi]

A poster at FJ went down a Twitter rabbit hole and looked up posts that Jeremy liked. Sadly, most conform to this sad line of "theology." Jeremy may not speak it out loud like his BIL Derelict, but he's every bit as hateful and misogynistic in his worldview. 

#freeFelicity