S11.E21: The Comet Polarization

[Bort]

Quote

Sheldon’s comic book store experiences changes when writer Neil Gaiman puts Stuart’s store on the map. Also, Koothrappali takes credit for Penny’s astronomical discovery, and friendships are threatened.

[Spartan Girl]

I love that they never even recognized Neil Gaiman.

Even when he's successful, Stuart sucks. But the new girl working at the store seems cool.

[Driad]

I enjoy the way Amy interacts with women who might be considered rivals for Sheldon.

Penny might have had a better chance of getting her name on a comet if she had a last name (other than Leonard's).

The blurbs refer to most of the characters by their first names, but Raj and Howard by their last names, which are longer than their first names. Anyone know why?

[greekmom]

If I was Penny I would be peeved as well. Raj can be such a jerk.  (Ok which writer has Kunal Nayyar peeved with the storylines he has been getting??)

I am glad that Stuart has finally had some success with the store.  

I hope Denise stays as a love interest for Stuart. 

[snarkylady]

8 minutes ago, greekmom said:

 Ok which writer has Kunal Nayyar peeved with the storylines he has been getting??

 

Considering the plot lines he's been given....which ones hasn't he peeved?

[SmithW6079]

Raj is a d-bag. What a plot twist!

I was surprised -- Sheldon actually made me laugh a few times tonight, and I loved Amy's admission that she listens to Sheldon less and less these days.

[BooksRule]

I would love to see Stuart become more successful and to be more like he was at the beginning of the series (he wasn't too successful, but he wasn't such a sad sack.  And, he also seemed like an interesting person).  It was funny that he was so excited that the cash register tape ran out (and that he had never seen it happen).  

[shapeshifter]

Am I the only one who was really disappointed that they didn't use this episode to reveal Penny's last (née) name? I get that it's a continuation of those gags like never seeing Howard's mom or the kids, and I wasn't surprised that they didn't reveal it, but I was hoping.

[Driad]

1 hour ago, BooksRule said:

I would love to see Stuart become more successful and to be more like he was at the beginning of the series

I agree.  He is an artist, so someone visiting the shop might see his work and give him his big break.  Unfortunately TPTB of this show think sad sacks and d-bags are funny.

Edited April 20, 2018 by Driad

[chocolatine]

So this season Penny has helped Sheldon realize that you can tie strings into knots in four dimensions if they're sheets, possibly helped her company secure an investment from Bill Gates, and helped Raj discover a new comet. Is there going to be a twist at the end of the series that she's secretly been the smartest one of the group all along?

Edited April 20, 2018 by chocolatine

[Mystery]

3 hours ago, BooksRule said:

I would love to see Stuart become more successful and to be more like he was at the beginning of the series (he wasn't too successful, but he wasn't such a sad sack.  And, he also seemed like an interesting person).   

I loved the episode when Leonard brought Penny to the comic book store and Stuart told her to blink twice if she was there against her will.

But at least there was a huge plot twist in tonight's episode. Something changed and Sheldon didn't like it. 

Edited April 20, 2018 by Mystery

[brgjoe]

I kept wondering when the other shoe was going to drop about the store.  As in all those famous people never did go there.  I thought perhaps the new assistant might accidentally blurt it out towards the end of the episode or something.  I am happy that didn't happen -- she's a nice addition to the comic store and it's nice to see that comic store actually being successful.

I missed the first part of the episode.  Did Penny actually move the telescope to find that comet, or did Raj move it there and she just happened to look into it at the right time to see the comet?  Or did she move the telescope to the right spot to see that comet?  If she actually moved it, she definitely should get naming rights to that comet.

[Jacks-Son]

I don't remember posting in this forum but I do post in other forums, however, I'm starting to dislike Sheldon more and more. He's always been a whiner but this season he has kicked it up to a level 11. I know he's full of himself, but the shithead can't find himself being happy for Stuart? He comes to the comic book store all the time and now he's disgruntled because it's not his private bathroom where he can sit on the pot and read his comic books? I've got hundreds of comics going back to the sixties. I've bought them all myself, in a comic book store and not once have I ever sat there and read them. I don't see the point if you're just going to buy them anyway and read them at home. <End of rant>

[biakbiak]

2 hours ago, brgjoe said:

As in all those famous people never did go there. 

But Neil Gaiman did and that would be enough to many and also make some famous nerds go there.

[Mystery]

2 hours ago, brgjoe said:

I missed the first part of the episode.  Did Penny actually move the telescope to find that comet, or did Raj move it there and she just happened to look into it at the right time to see the comet?  Or did she move the telescope to the right spot to see that comet?  If she actually moved it, she definitely should get naming rights to that comet.

Raj set it up and she was the first to look through it and she thought she saw something fuzzy. The guys told her it was probably an eyelash or something, and she insisted not, and Raj told her to take a picture with the phone he had connected to the telescope. Looking at it on his laptop, he said it could be a comet. 

[shapeshifter]

Raj whining about needing to name himself as the sole discoverer of the comet to advance his career but then saying to himself after Penny closed the door "That worked better with Leonard" was an almost nuanced depiction of his bullying by the writers—especially following Penny's rant to Leonard about several instances of men taking credit for her ideas and/or dismissing her contributions.

[FinnishViewer]

I find it unbelievable that Sheldon or Stuart did not recognize Neil Gaiman.

Loved Penny's 'Excuuuuse me?'

[SmithW6079]

32 minutes ago, FinnishViewer said:

I find it unbelievable that Sheldon or Stuart did not recognize Neil Gaiman.

Loved Penny's 'Excuuuuse me?'

I thought they didn't really look at him, just kind of glanced over their shoulders. 

[joanne3482]

11 hours ago, Driad said:

I agree.  He is an artist, so someone visiting the shop might see his work and give him his big break.  Unfortunately TPTB of this show think sad sacks and d-bags are funny.

It is a Chuck Lorre show, so... Of his shows I've seen, there is at least one of each in every show. 

[PinkRibbons]

Are comets always named after their discoverers? Seems to me the best middle ground would have been to put Raj down as the discoverer of "Penny's Comet".

[Quark]

I liked this episode, but was confused by something. Didn't Raj quit the university and find another job? The way he was rambling on about the comet though, it seemed he still worked at the university.

[CherryAmes]

Raj didn't quit at the university but he did find another job.  He also works at the planetarium.

[MissLucas]

Although OOC I liked the running gag of the guys not recognizing Neil Gaiman. I hope Denise stays around and the comic shop remains successful (though I don't expect the show to pack that many extras in for every episode) - it would be nice if Stuart's downward trajectory would finally come to an end. Raj was indeed a jerk and I hope he keeps his word and changes that entry. Speaking of jerks I would have liked for someone to point out to Sheldon that the shop does not exist for his convenience and that its success is a good thing for Stuart. Bernadette and Howard had a sweet C plot.

[LoneHaranguer]

11 hours ago, chocolatine said:

So this season Penny has helped Sheldon realize that you can tie strings into knots in four dimensions if they're sheets, possibly helped her company secure an investment from Bill Gates, and helped Raj discover a new comet. Is there going to be a twist at the end of the series that she's secretly been the smartest one of the group all along?

We've already been told that she's at least in the top three. Since the testing was done by Amy with Sheldon in on it, we don't know how she stacks up relative to them, but an eidetic memory gives Sheldon an advantage.

8 hours ago, Jacks-Son said:

I've got hundreds of comics going back to the sixties. I've bought them all myself, in a comic book store and not once have I ever sat there and read them. I don't see the point if you're just going to buy them anyway and read them at home.

Does he read them at home? Or does he just buy them to fill out his collection, from which he can pull them if he wants to prove a point?

[Traveller519]

15 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

But the new girl working at the store seems cool.

Lauren Lapkus! I'm enjoying seeing her break-out from the purely alternative comedy scene. But I really hope she's not treated as a love interest for any character if she continues to appear. She's an amazing comic in her own right, but a lot of her roles have her playing the object of desire or the girlfriend/wife. I did like how Jurassic World used her to steer against that characterization at the end.

In fact, using Riki Lindhome (Dr. Ramona Nowitzki) and Lauren (Denise) as ever present potential-foils for Amy, whom she actually adores would be fun!

[highway61]

Denise was nice, but I was a little sorry we didn't see Dale back as Stuart's assistant. 

And I know it's tv, but it's really hard to discover a comet through an amateur telescope at this point, given the all-sky robotic surveys running continuously (like Pan-STARRS). And Mercury wouldn't be that high in the sky at night (it's always close to the Sun). I did like his 'Lestro' telescope - I wonder if it was a Celestron....

[Mystery]

People talking about the comic store reminded me of one thing that I noticed. Sheldon didn't want to go sit on the couch and read a comic book next to a stranger, and the camera  panned over to a woman sitting, if I remember correctly, in the middle of the couch. I can't remember the last time I saw a woman sit that way. We're always scooting over to the edge as soon as we sit down, so that someone else can sit down if they want to. I ride the bus a lot to work, and look out the window at bus benches and park benches, and it's something I always notice. (IMO this show, with its mainly male directors and writers, and Chuck Lorre in general don't seem to observe women much). Or maybe I'm just showing my unconscious biases. 

[beadgirl]

Quote

Raj whining about needing to name himself as the sole discoverer of the comet to advance his career but then saying to himself after Penny closed the door "That worked better with Leonard" was an almost nuanced depiction of his bullying by the writers—especially following Penny's rant to Leonard about several instances of men taking credit for her ideas and/or dismissing her contributions.

And good for Penny for standing up for herself and not falling for his guilt trip! Between this and the inversion where we think Amy's going to attack Denise in one way or another, but instead she asks to be taught about comics, this episode was surprisingly feminist.

I hope Stuart continues to have success. Now that Penny and Leonard are married, surely the writers can stop worrying we'll think original-Stuart is a better match.

Quote

I can't remember the last time I saw a woman sit that way.

It was odd (etiquette at subway and train stations is to start at the ends first then fill in the middle, for example), but I'm sure it was done solely to emphasize Sheldon's discomfort with sharing a sofa with a stranger).

[Gulftastic]

A bunch of DC fans would have mentioned 'Inertron' in the strongest metal argument.

[iMonrey]

Quote

I find it unbelievable that Sheldon or Stuart did not recognize Neil Gaiman.

Well, I certainly wouldn't recognize him, considering I've never heard of him before. But a quick Wikipedia search tells me at least one of the four male leads should have. Still not convinced they'd recognize him on sight, unless he's a big presence at Comic Con.

Quote

And I know it's tv, but it's really hard to discover a comet through an amateur telescope at this point, given the all-sky robotic surveys running continuously (like Pan-STARRS). 

I may not know much about telescopes, but what Raj was using on the roof looked like anything but amateur equipment. I was under the impression he brought it from work. I realize it's not the Hubble but it looked very high-tech to me. 

I have to say, it was nice seeing Stuart get a win for once. I'm sure he'll be back to loser territory by next week though.

[highway61]

8 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I may not know much about telescopes, but what Raj was using on the roof looked like anything but amateur equipment. I was under the impression he brought it from work. I realize it's not the Hubble but it looked very high-tech to me. 

It was definitely a very good amateur telescope, but here's what's been looking for comets lately: PanSTARRS

[Jacks-Son]

3 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Speaking of jerks I would have liked for someone to point out to Sheldon that the shop does not exist for his convenience and that its success is a good thing for Stuart. Bernadette and Howard had a sweet C plot.

I posted about Sheldon's jerk attitude upthread. I agree, Sheldon is taking whining to new heights and instead of being happy for Stuart he whines that he can no longer read his comics in private. His friends should be asking Sheldon to modify his behavior and REALLY point it out to him. More and more, instead of getting Sheldon to show more consideration, his friends just make snide/humorous comments for the show's fans. I'm seriously losing any sympathy for Sheldon's behavior as a result of his brilliance and emotional detachment.

[LoneHaranguer]

1 hour ago, beadgirl said:

It was odd (etiquette at subway and train stations is to start at the ends first then fill in the middle, for example), but I'm sure it was done solely to emphasize Sheldon's discomfort with sharing a sofa with a stranger).

If she was sitting at the end, I'm sure she would have been in his spot.

[iMonrey]

Quote

I posted about Sheldon's jerk attitude upthread. I agree, Sheldon is taking whining to new heights and instead of being happy for Stuart he whines that he can no longer read his comics in private. His friends should be asking Sheldon to modify his behavior and REALLY point it out to him. More and more, instead of getting Sheldon to show more consideration, his friends just make snide/humorous comments for the show's fans. I'm seriously losing any sympathy for Sheldon's behavior as a result of his brilliance and emotional detachment.

But how is that any different than the way he's acted since Season 1? If anything he's better now. They've tolerated him this long I don't know why they'd start trying to correct him now. (Now, why they've tolerated his assy behavior all these years, I don't know. But, they have for some inexplicable reason.)

[OtterMommy]

8 hours ago, FinnishViewer said:

I find it unbelievable that Sheldon or Stuart did not recognize Neil Gaiman.

I think this was sort of an illustration of the guys' egos.  I mean, of course, no one knows more about comics than Sheldon, Leonard, Raj, Howard, and Stuart!  So, when someone who has their own cred shows up, someone who they should recognize, they just...don't.

Really, this whole show was about their egos.  You have no one recognizing Neil Gaiman, Sheldon throwing a hissy fit because there are more people than he would like at the comic store, Howard (and Bernadette) pissed off that Stuart is not being at their beck and call, and Raj refusing to acknowledge Penny's role in finding the comet. 

The only things I didn't find insufferable about this episode were Neil Gaiman (ironically) and Amy confronting the new assistant manager and saying she wants to learn how to pretend to like comics...and even that was a bit on an ego thing.

[vibeology]

1 hour ago, Jacks-Son said:

I posted about Sheldon's jerk attitude upthread. I agree, Sheldon is taking whining to new heights and instead of being happy for Stuart he whines that he can no longer read his comics in private. His friends should be asking Sheldon to modify his behavior and REALLY point it out to him. More and more, instead of getting Sheldon to show more consideration, his friends just make snide/humorous comments for the show's fans. I'm seriously losing any sympathy for Sheldon's behavior as a result of his brilliance and emotional detachment.

I'm gonna disagree. I think Sheldon had a pretty common reaction to the store becoming popular. It's not a positive reaction, but super common. Think about when people have a favourite indie band that suddenly gets a hit. You'll often hear fans be annoyed that their band has gotten big. Most people come around but there's still a sadness that comes with losing the intimacy of an undiscovered thing. And I do think we were supposed to read Sheldon's acceptance of Denise as an acceptance of the new normal for the comic book store. That was a big change but it's clear he loves it. It just took him a couple of days. 

[Katy M]

I actually liked this episode.  I think the Raj/Penny/Leonard argument was realistic and less childish than a lot of the stuff they do.  Raj and Penny both had valid points.  Raj set up the telescope, plus this is his line of work.  Penny did see it first, but didn't know what it was and won't gain professional prestige from discovering a comet.  And, I think Penny and Leonard both had valid points about Leonard dismissing her and being a people pleaser, but that she needs to fight her own battles.

And, as annoying as Sheldon usually is, his complaint about the comic book store becoming popular was realistic.  I once used to go to this gym I loved because nobody was ever there.  It didn't get popular, though, it went out of business.  So, perhaps Sheldon should think about that.

[Jacks-Son]

40 minutes ago, vibeology said:

I'm gonna disagree. I think Sheldon had a pretty common reaction to the store becoming popular. It's not a positive reaction, but super common. Think about when people have a favourite indie band that suddenly gets a hit. You'll often hear fans be annoyed that their band has gotten big. Most people come around but there's still a sadness that comes with losing the intimacy of an undiscovered thing. And I do think we were supposed to read Sheldon's acceptance of Denise as an acceptance of the new normal for the comic book store. That was a big change but it's clear he loves it. It just took him a couple of days. 

Okay, that makes sense. I guess I don't really complain about crowds being a former NY'er. However, I still don't understand the concept of sitting in a comic book store and reading the comic when you're ultimately going to buy it and read it at home. Now, I've seen people in Barnes & Nobles sitting in a chair reading one of their books. I've never done it myself. I just look at the author and read the jacket. If I want the book, I buy it. I don't sit and read it. It's like people standing at a newspaper stand and reading their magazines. Kind of rude, to me.

I wouldn't exactly say that Sheldon loves it. I think he just likes talking to Denise and that helps him ignore the crowd.

Edited April 20, 2018 by Jacks-Son

[stan4]

49 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I actually liked this episode.  I think the Raj/Penny/Leonard argument was realistic and less childish than a lot of the stuff they do.  Raj and Penny both had valid points.  Raj set up the telescope, plus this is his line of work.  Penny did see it first, but didn't know what it was and won't gain professional prestige from discovering a comet.  And, I think Penny and Leonard both had valid points about Leonard dismissing her and being a people pleaser, but that she needs to fight her own battles.

And, as annoying as Sheldon usually is, his complaint about the comic book store becoming popular was realistic.  I once used to go to this gym I loved because nobody was ever there.  It didn't get popular, though, it went out of business.  So, perhaps Sheldon should think about that.

 

I think Raj should have shared credit, for sure.

But can you really "discover" something if you have no idea what it is and would have never had any idea what it was (and would never have followed up on it)?  That's where he has Penny beat.

 

But she did see it and the right thing to do would have been share the credit.  Imo.

[HyeChaps]

Maybe Raj got the fancy telescope while he was still on the Old Man's money. 

[Katy M]

51 minutes ago, stan4 said:

But can you really "discover" something if you have no idea what it is and would have never had any idea what it was (and would never have followed up on it)?  That's where he has Penny beat.

That's how I feel.  Yeah, she saw it.  But, she didn't know what it was.  She did call attention to it, but it's not like Raj wasn't going to look through the telescope himself.  

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, stan4 said:

But can you really "discover" something if you have no idea what it is and would have never had any idea what it was (and would never have followed up on it)?

Well, for over five centuries Columbus got credit for "discovering" the "Indies." 
I was on Penny's side because Kaley Cuoco sounded deadly serious when she (as Penny) said she "looked it up" and that whoever takes the picture gets credit (or something like that), but all I'm finding is group names, so maybe the direction and delivery were not what the writers intended?
Is there still a resident science advisor for the show?
Maybe Penny was supposed to sound more like it was something that she saw as part of an ad for a cell phone camera?
Maybe Penny saw something online like: You too can get a comet named after you with this cell phone plus this stupidly expensive attachment and tripod!

Anyway, I really like this idea:

22 hours ago, LadyKenobi said:

Raj should have just listed the discoverer as KuthraPenny. There, everybody's happy, and he should have seen what a fun PR angle that would have been for the university. 

[stan4]

20 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Well, for over five centuries Columbus got credit for "discovering" the "Indies." 
 

Right.

But most educated people know that is a pile of crap.

[Accidental Martyr]

5 hours ago, vibeology said:

Think about when people have a favourite indie band that suddenly gets a hit. You'll often hear fans be annoyed that their band has gotten big. Most people come around but there's still a sadness that comes with losing the intimacy of an undiscovered thing. And I do think we were supposed to read Sheldon's acceptance of Denise as an acceptance of the new normal for the comic book store. That was a big change but it's clear he loves it. It just took him a couple of days. 

That’s pretty much what happened with R.E.M. I became a fan when I was about 14 in 1983 and within a relatively short time they were one of the biggest bands in the world. One one hand, you’re happy about their success but on the other hand you miss the old days when you felt like you were part of something special that other people didn’t know about.

[Jacks-Son]

54 minutes ago, Accidental Martyr said:

That’s pretty much what happened with R.E.M. I became a fan when I was about 14 in 1983 and within a relatively short time they were one of the biggest bands in the world. One one hand, you’re happy about their success but on the other hand you miss the old days when you felt like you were part of something special that other people didn’t know about.

So, all those screaming females (not trying to be sexist, but all the videos show screaming females) when the Beatles were first starting out, should be bummed that they became a world-wide sensation?  Why would you complain if your favorite group became internationally famous? Shouldn't you feel proud that you were in on it from the beginning? It gives you dibs and you can snidely say to the new fans that they are just jumping on the bandwagon. I would think it would give you a sense of pride.

[AnnaRose]

4 hours ago, Katy M said:

That's how I feel.  Yeah, she saw it.  But, she didn't know what it was.  She did call attention to it, but it's not like Raj wasn't going to look through the telescope himself.  

I was wondering how long the comet would stay in view where the telescope was positioned.  At first Raj completely dismissed the possibility that she saw something significant, thinking it was probably just an eyelash, and only reluctantly told Penny to take a picture of what she saw... so I wasn't convinced that if she hadn't, it would still be in frame(?) whenever he got around to looking himself.  I know next to nothing about astronomy, but I did wonder if there was a decent chance he would have missed it if she hadn't seen it and insisted it was something. 

Also, I could understand Penny's frustration with people being condescending and also taking credit for her ideas.  I think that happens a lot in the real world, unfortunately, especially to women.  That said, I would have been more open to Raj's point of view if he hadn't been such a jerk about it.  Typical Raj though, so his behavior wasn't surprising.  He's my least favorite character on the show. 

The new comic book store employee was well cast and I enjoyed that storyline - especially Amy's reactions to Sheldon telling her about Denise, and Amy going to confront her ask her for advice. So funny, and Mayim plays those scenes so perfectly.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, AnnaRose said:

 

6 hours ago, Katy M said:

That's how I feel.  Yeah, she saw it.  But, she didn't know what it was.  She did call attention to it, but it's not like Raj wasn't going to look through the telescope himself.  

I was wondering how long the comet would stay in view where the telescope was positioned.  At first Raj completely dismissed the possibility that she saw something significant, thinking it was probably just an eyelash, and only reluctantly told Penny to take a picture of what she saw... so I wasn't convinced that if she hadn't, it would still be in frame(?) whenever he got around to looking himself.  I know next to nothing about astronomy, but I did wonder if there was a decent chance he would have missed it if she hadn't seen it and insisted it was something. 

Yes, exactly. Assuming the writers deliberately left it ambiguous as to whether or not Raj would have seen the comet if Penny had not insisted she saw something and photographed it, this really is one of the most socially aware episodes they have done. 

And I'm just now seeing the parallel between Penny's feelings about her discovery of the comet and Sheldon's feelings about "his" comic book store gaining wider recognition because someone else (Neil Gaiman) "discovered" it.

Maybe I'm reading more into this than was intended, but I don't think so, because it's a totally invented story; reality would be about:

13 hours ago, highway61 said:

And I know it's tv, but it's really hard to discover a comet through an amateur telescope at this point, given the all-sky robotic surveys running continuously (like Pan-STARRS)

—which they could have written, given Raj's access to such equipment.

[Helena Dax]

I understand Sheldon's reaction to changes. I'm upset for a couple of days everytime Twitter or my favourite websites change their interface, And well, his brain works in a special way and he doesn't deal well with changes, especially when it comes to his routine. So even if he was being selfish, (considering that Stuart is more or less his friend), I don't blame him this time. Imo, Raj was worse. 

[CherryAmes]

A very good episode!  I especially got a kick out of the running joke of the gang not realizing that it was Neil Gaiman who was in the comic book store.  I enjoyed that they found a way to have a special guest star without making up an  unlikely scenario where someone would just happen to meet special guest star!  I completely bought that they wouldn't recognize him - why would they?  He writes things they read he's not a face that they encounter every time they watch a favourite movie or TV show!  

Also really liked the storyline with Penny finally snapping and not being prepared to accept being treated badly,  Good for her!

Edited April 21, 2018 by CherryAmes

[marketdoctor]

Quote

So this season Penny has helped Sheldon realize that you can tie strings into knots in four dimensions if they're sheets, possibly helped her company secure an investment from Bill Gates, and helped Raj discover a new comet. Is there going to be a twist at the end of the series that she's secretly been the smartest one of the group all along?

You need five dimensions to tie a knot in a plane/sheet, but yes; I want to see the final episode be that Penny decides her work there is done, and then return to the future or another dimension (and take Leonard with him, so they're both happy.)