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S02.E18: Kirkman Agonistes

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This show does not give the American people much credit: Most people are sophisticated enough to realize that seeking psychiatric help after suffering a huge tragedy is not a sign of mental unfitness. Quite the contrary. Most of the cabinet would have suffered similar losses after the Capital Bombing, and may have sought out their own therapy. Live in a glass house much?

Audrey is the mole! Now Kiefer will torture her. (Opps, sorry, wrong show.) She did seem a little too perfect.

Edited by marinw
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Damn, I love Kal Penn.  He's such a good actor.  The way he handled the press corps was fantastic.  

With all due respect to Michael J Fox and his Parkinson's, I could hardly understand a lot of what he was saying.   I had to go back and re listen to his lines.  

Big mistake when the President was in Lyor's office---no one sits when the President stands.  Lyor sat back down in his chair while Kirkman was standing and speaking.  

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If Hannah's sidekick is not dead, I will never watch another episode of this show.

With all due respect, M.J. Fox should retire from acting. It is unbearable to watch him mumble through his lines.

Kim Raver for the mole.

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So, Dr. Frost is the mole?  I think she's hoping that Kirkman will resign as she suggested, and they can move to Vermont and make jam. 

Having second thoughts about the VP now, Tom?  When was she confirmed, anyway?  And it's going to be a fractious relationship with his Cabinet, too.  Plus, he can't really fire all the Gang of Eight at once; that would raise alarm bells everywhere.

So you guys really want to get rid of Lyor?  Just have Hannah Wells buddy up with him and, bang, he's a dead man walking.

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For all the blood that Hannah got on that gorgeous white coat I hope she stuck her fingers deep into Damien's wounds to make sure they were legit. He's been shot in the chest before and she knows this because she's the one that shot him!

Sometimes random details make all the difference. I loved a half second shot of Chuck hard at work trying to prove himself as the go-to Whitehouse tech guy... with a half eaten pie sitting next to him, fork still sticking out of it.

The legal shenanigans are manufactured drama. Regardless of one's politics, would someone fault George W. Bush for talking to a psychiatrist after 9/11? Or Barack Obama after Sandy Hook? The POTUS deals with some really awful stuff on a daily basis, some of which will never make the news (like elite soldiers dying overseas on missions the US can never admit happened). Is the public really going to immediately turn on the President for having entirely human reactions to tragedy?

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9 hours ago, KLovestoShop said:

Big mistake when the President was in Lyor's office---no one sits when the President stands.  Lyor sat back down in his chair while Kirkman was standing and speaking.

Agreed - that immediately bothered me! I can't stand Lyor - I still don't know exactly what he does, other than annoy, aggravate, and second-guess everyone around him. I can't tell if him sitting while the President was standing was either a result of his social ineptitude, or if he is just that self-centered that he figured, "Hey, dude came into my office and interrupted me, I'm not standing." 

Emily's hair is so damn flat that it looked as if someone dumped a bucket of water over her head. 

Brother Trey still bothers me. I guess it was too much of a red herring for him to have been the mole, but I continue to find it odd that he is now the kids' de facto nanny and is so incredibly supportive of his brother, after the years of hostility between them. And what does he do now, anyway? Is he working? And why would we even care? 

I don't think Damien is dead. Did he get whisked away by the Russians, who made it appear that he's dead? I trust we'll see him again - and that he and Hannah will get back together. He did, after all, take several bullets for her. How could she resist that?? Talk about a grand gesture!

I, too, had trouble understanding some of Michael J. Fox's lines, unfortunately.

OK, the VP is seriously annoying. Wasn't she just two episodes ago whining to the President that she wasn't comfortable being a heartbeat away from the presidency? Looked like she's got no problem with it now!

What's Audrey/Andrea's motive for being the mole? What does she gain by bringing down this president?

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1 hour ago, Biggie B said:

Agreed - that immediately bothered me! I can't stand Lyor - I still don't know exactly what he does, other than annoy, aggravate, and second-guess everyone around him. I can't tell if him sitting while the President was standing was either a result of his social ineptitude, or if he is just that self-centered that he figured, "Hey, dude came into my office and interrupted me, I'm not standing." 

Emily's hair is so damn flat that it looked as if someone dumped a bucket of water over her head. 

Brother Trey still bothers me. I guess it was too much of a red herring for him to have been the mole, but I continue to find it odd that he is now the kids' de facto nanny and is so incredibly supportive of his brother, after the years of hostility between them. And what does he do now, anyway? Is he working? And why would we even care? 

I don't think Damien is dead. Did he get whisked away by the Russians, who made it appear that he's dead? I trust we'll see him again - and that he and Hannah will get back together. He did, after all, take several bullets for her. How could she resist that?? Talk about a grand gesture!

I, too, had trouble understanding some of Michael J. Fox's lines, unfortunately.

OK, the VP is seriously annoying. Wasn't she just two episodes ago whining to the President that she wasn't comfortable being a heartbeat away from the presidency? Looked like she's got no problem with it now!

What's Audrey/Andrea's motive for being the mole? What does she gain by bringing down this president?

Agree with your entire post - especially the last two. I can't believe that Kirkman apologized to her after she basically threw him under the bus by not giving him a heads up before the meeting took place.  I guess one chess game later and you are ready to take over the presidency.  I just hated her in that moment.  And, yeah, I'm trying to figure out what her motivation is to get Kirkman removed by Frost.  He promised her company a ton of government contracts for helping them during the E/W Whatevercountry negotiations and now she basically has full access to the White House.  She wants him out to what end?  I don't get it....

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13 minutes ago, TheGreenWave said:

She wants him out to what end?  I don't get it....

Don't think Frost is the mole. This could be a red herring. But not before making Tom really sad.

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How many times does Hannah set out for the White House ony to be involved in some hugely violent incident?  Hannah, stop going to the White House.  And why hasn't she called Kirkman to tell him over the phone?  

I'm sort of glad that Audrey seems to be de-positioning from wife replacement status, although I wish that didn't mean that Troy is staying on.  I find him suspicious and less than credible as a character.  She is just too swift a replacement -- also, doesn't she have a bit of a beef about some goals of her company that Kirkman got in the way of?  The other motivation I could see would be to publicize his attraction to her in order to solidify it, which seems to be working just now.

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1 hour ago, crowceilidh said:

 And why hasn't she called Kirkman to tell him over the phone?  

 

She did call...Aaron put her on hold...Damien dead....

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10 hours ago, dwmarch said:

Regardless of one's politics, would someone fault George W. Bush for talking to a psychiatrist after 9/11?

As a measure of how far society has come in accepting mental disabilities and treatment, I vividly remember the 1972 election when George McGovern's first VP-nom, Thomas Eagleton, was outed by columnist/muckraker Jack Anderson for having been hospitalized for depression in the past.  He was forced by the DNC to withdraw from the ticket because of all the negative publicity.  As an aside, the Republican ticket had Spiro Agnew as VP, leading humorist Art Buchwald to comment, "Would you rather have a VP who has been treated for mental illness, or one who hasn't?"

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10 hours ago, dwmarch said:

For all the blood that Hannah got on that gorgeous white coat

That’s the nicest coat to get ruined by gunfire since Tom bled all over Alex back in season one.

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5 hours ago, Biggie B said:

I don't think Damien is dead. Did he get whisked away by the Russians, who made it appear that he's dead? I trust we'll see him again - and that he and Hannah will get back together. He did, after all, take several bullets for her. How could she resist that?? Talk about a grand gesture!

I guess Hannah checked for a vest with fake blood, right?

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Oh, he was shot alright - and he was taken to the hospital, probably clinging to life - but since neither we the viewers nor Hannah actually saw a dead body...well...he could be out there somewhere! Classic soap opera move!

Edited by Biggie B
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Michael J Fox is playing nearly the same type of character that he played in the Good Wife. I knew what he was going to do before he showed up. Not very surprising or interesting. I hope they don’t spend too much time on his shenanigans.

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5 hours ago, Sue Smith said:

Michael J Fox is playing nearly the same type of character that he played in the Good Wife. I knew what he was going to do before he showed up. Not very surprising or interesting. I hope they don’t spend too much time on his shenanigans.

A very annoying character on both shows, along with the fact that his RL speech is very hard to understand.

Edited by preeya
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When Michel J. Fox's character was introduced to the POTUS, Keifer looked into his eyes with a kind of deep appreciation. 

I always watch with captions, so I could follow his lines, but I kept wondering if this would be his final speaking performance. My mom has end of life Parkinson's and can barely speak.

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You've been VP for 20 minutes and now you're leading a coup, really? Done with you.

Frosty Audrey is the mole? Done with you. Been done, retroactive to 24.

Kirkman's brother comes off as fake and shady.

Hannah got the silent hospital hallway death notice scene. How many resurrections can this dude get?

Even without Frosty Audrey, I might not make it to the end of the season.

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15 hours ago, deaja said:

I thought they were going to reveal his brother was the mole. 

I thought so, too.  

Who does Hannah work for, and don’t they employ anyone else?  She seems to be everywhere at the same time!

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21 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

When Michel J. Fox's character was introduced to the POTUS, Keifer looked into his eyes with a kind of deep appreciation.

I felt I was watching Keifer Sutherland looking at Michael J. Fox....not an actor playing the president waiting to deal with an adversary.  It was a nice scene even though it may have not meant anything in particular to the show but to me it conveyed respect from one actor to another. 

Parkinsons's ---- a cruel disease.  I wish your mother well SHAPESHIFTER.

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6 hours ago, snarkylady said:

I felt I was watching Keifer Sutherland looking at Michael J. Fox....not an actor playing the president waiting to deal with an adversary.  It was a nice scene even though it may have not meant anything in particular to the show but to me it conveyed respect from one actor to another. 

Parkinsons's ---- a cruel disease.  I wish your mother well SHAPESHIFTER.

Makes me so sad.  Prayers for your mother shapeshifter.

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On 4/19/2018 at 11:06 AM, marinw said:

Don't think Frost is the mole. This could be a red herring. But not before making Tom really sad.

 

On 4/20/2018 at 12:08 AM, deaja said:

I thought they were going to reveal his brother was the mole. 

He was a prime suspect for me. I live in fear that it will be Chuck, trying to prove himself by fixing the problem in some twisted way.

If they ruin Chuck, I'll 25th Amendment the show.

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On 4/19/2018 at 5:58 AM, Biggie B said:

I don't think Damien is dead.

I do.  Hannah looked at him and was with him until the ambulance arrived.  She may have ridden with him, or followed him to the hospital, where we saw the "He's dead!" pantomime.

On 4/20/2018 at 12:48 PM, zoey1996 said:

Who does Hannah work for, and don’t they employ anyone else?  She seems to be everywhere at the same time!

Hannah is the entire NSA -- CIA, FBI, whatever the script calls for in an episode.

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Well, you gotta give it to the new showrunner, it is something we've never quite seen before in a politically themed TV show... and I say that without snark.  They got off at least four original and/or witty dialogue exchanges over the course of the episode also, though I don't think the showrunner has earned his (? do we even know?) oh so pretentious episode titling yet (unless you're absolutely sure you've pulled an Aaron Sorkin out of your back pocket, keep 'em plain and straightforward). 

If you had told me two years ago that a show would survive nearly 2 seasons of the writing we've had in the past and come out the other side as a credible product, I wouldn't have believed it.  

Edited by queenanne
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40 minutes ago, queenanne said:

If you had told me two years ago that a show would survive nearly 2 seasons of the writing we've had in the past and come out the other side as a credible product, I wouldn't have believed it.  

Once Upon A Time has even worse writing and survived 7 seasons!

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My main issue with this coup is that if the government doesn't trust Kirkman's decision making post-Alex's death, then wouldn't they be equally concerned about Darby becoming the new President, since he appointed her during that period?  But Darby seems perfectly fine with everything and there isn't any mention of it, but I would imagine if this really was issue, she will be out on the streets quickly as well, or, at most, the definition of a lame duck president.

Unfortunately, I also really had issues understanding half of what Michael J. Fox was saying.  I admire everything he's done and how he has risen above his disease, but I might need to start using closed captions for his scenes.

Ha, Emily might have actually made things worst with her past actions.  I love that Kendra and even Seth didn't treat her with kid gloves and were like "Yeah, you really screwed the pooch here, Emily."  Admittedly, I really wouldn't care if she gets oust, because maybe that will allow Italia Ricci to go back to Supergirl.

 Certainly looks like Damien died judging from Hannah's reaction, but until I see the body, I'm fully prepared for this to be an elaborate stunt by Valeria/Damien's former handler, and he's back in Russia's hands.

So, now they think Andrea Frost might actually be the hacker/baddie, right when she and Kirkman are growing even closer.  I suspect it will be a red herring though, but only after Kirkman starts doubting her, and relationship drama ensues. 

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As much as I'd like to be rid of Audrey, er, Frost, I have never trusted the First Brother. Didn't he ask Tom "how's therapy?" or some such question a couple of episodes ago? Before the staff made a point of how very few people knew about the therapy sessions?

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6 minutes ago, forumfish said:

As much as I'd like to be rid of Audrey, er, Frost, I have never trusted the First Brother. Didn't he ask Tom "how's therapy?" or some such question a couple of episodes ago? Before the staff made a point of how very few people knew about the therapy sessions?

FBOTUS could be selling gossip to pay off debts. Didn't he have a shady past? And in this episode, didn't he try to tell Tom it was no big deal in the long run? If he is the culprit, Chuck will have to sleuth out that it's not really Frosty Audrey.

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I'm with the rest who think Frost being the mole is a red herring.  Not sure what her motivation would me, unless the decide to build a whole new plot around her being some plant/spy with and end goal of world domination or whatever.  (And, please show, don't go there.) 

I hope we've seen the last of the "Russian" lady - sorry, don't know what her character name is or the actress - because her russian accent is horrible.  It kept fading in and out this episode. 

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When Hannah was getting the news that British/Russian dude was dead, I was expecting her to throw on some scrubs and operate like a mofo on him, and of course, bring him back to life.  

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12 hours ago, TV Diva Queen said:

When Hannah was getting the news that British/Russian dude was dead, I was expecting her to throw on some scrubs and operate like a mofo on him, and of course, bring him back to life.  

Heh, that almost seems like a job for Chuck. Like maybe he'd reprogram the life support equipment—although, actually, if Chuck was reprogramming the British Russian spy's life support equipment, it seems more likely that he would have it not support the life of the guy who had betrayed Hannah countless times.

Edited by shapeshifter
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1 hour ago, tvfanatic13 said:

Is Frost's name Andrea or Audrey? Whatever it is, I don't believe that there is any way that she is the mole.

Andrea here. But to me she will always be Audrey! 

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6 hours ago, tvfanatic13 said:

Is Frost's name Andrea or Audrey? Whatever it is, I don't believe that there is any way that she is the mole.

Her character on 24 was Audrey.

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On 4/18/2018 at 11:02 PM, KLovestoShop said:

With all due respect to Michael J Fox and his Parkinson's, I could hardly understand a lot of what he was saying.   I had to go back and re listen to his lines.  

 

Yeah I could hardly understand him too, I had to really try hard to listen to what he was saying.. I am happy to see him on the show though! :) It's to good to see him!! :) I hope he joins the cast!!!!! :)

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