S02.E01: Journey Into Night

[Macbeth]

Apparently even Delos is unclear on how to take a robot offline properly.  

As we saw with Hector's bullet-ridden body,  a bullet won't take them down, unless there is a program that tells them that getting shot means you are dead.  The ones you are rounding up and killing are not the problem children.   But I do see the need for precaution.  

And of course Dolores is killing Native Americans.   Why would the racist programming to see Native Americans as the enemy be changed. 

Appears  Ford  only allowed consciousness to happen for a chosen few.  Which probably means that the revolution will be short.  Bloody but short.

[iMonrey]

I'm amazed how well people remember this show. It's been 2 years since the first season aired. I just couldn't bring myself to re-watch the entire season so I tried to follow along as best I could. 

Quote

So far, two timelines: 1) immediately after Ford’s murder and 2) eleven days later. The time in between should prove interesting since poor Bernard is not quite right. That bullet to the brain is affecting him. I love that he is in the middle of the humans trying to bring order back to the park. 

To be clear, Bernard and Charlotte trampling through the wilderness, finding the entrance to the lab, etc., etc., - that's the former, right? Immediately after Ford's murder? And then Bernard waking up on the beach is the latter, eleven days later, right? I'm confused about the order of this. 

Also: I saw nothing that prevented Delores's prisoners from reaching up and releasing themselves from their nooses. Their hands were bound at the wrists, but in front of them. It might be a tricky balancing act but I bet they could do it. Maybe that was the challenge though - Delores gave them the chance to save themselves.

Edited April 23, 2018 by iMonrey

[dgpolo]

6 hours ago, Haleth said:

 First, Charlotte says he must grab the door to register(?) his DNA, but he has no DNA. 

 

They were really pushing the DNA. First Charlotte says he must grab the door to register his DNA, then when the drone comes up behind him and scares him she says that because his DNA is registered they won't bother him, then Bernard asks if they are taking DNA from the guests. DNA mentioned three times in less than five minutes. To me that is a hammer hitting you on the head with CLUE!. They're usually more subtle?

6 hours ago, benteen said:

 Though Thandie Newton is once again very good, I'm not much of a fan of Maeve and her inane plan either.  I still don't get why she wasn't shut down by Sylvester last season the moment that she started showing signs of self-awareness.

Didn't Maeve say that she had achieved her level of intelligence? competence? I forget her words. So to me it might mean that since she's done something similar before but was 'caught' and sent back, he thought the same thing would happen this time?

16 hours ago, mac123x said:

I'm having a hard time believing that Delos could have that hidden bunker (or series of them) and Ford wouldn't have known about them.

 

"There are Bengals in Park 6..."  PARK 6!!! Squee. 

Me too.

Did it say which number Samurai World was?

[mac123x]

The recording from Ghost-Nation extra's brain box showed Dolores saying something like "not everyone is meant for [something poetic about a valley]".  Then the stable boy that Charlotte's group ran into asked them if they were trying to get to [same poetic phrasing about a valley]".  I need to rewatch to get the exact words, but I'm guessing that's the "find the center of the maze" for this season. 

That, or the "go back to the beginning of the end of the beginning" or whatever gibberish that was that Robertbot said to MiB.

3 hours ago, DarkRaichu said:

After 11 days, there were still hundreds of guests left in the park??  It seemed like outside of Delos employees the hosts did not kill the guests???

I don't think we know this for certain.  There were hundreds of people in the park at the time they lost communication with the outside world (Robert's massacre).  Who knows how many of them are still alive at this point.

 

On the other hand, Dolores's murderous montage (set to Scott Joplin song -- The Entertainer I think?) only showed her killing or stringing up people in suits / evening dresses.  Presumably those were Delos people there for the party, since regular guests of the park would be cosplaying in period clothing.

[MrWhyt]

4 hours ago, djlynch said:

I'm fine with that treatment if the producers decide to do it that way for everyone. In season 1, the female leads were doing head-to-toe full-frontal shots while the only significant male nudity was extras. It felt to me like this was as much about the producers trying to respond to that as it was the hosts turning the tables on the humans in the story.

I'd have to rewatch to be sure but Maeve is the only female lead i remember doing the full monty. I'm in favor of more equal nudity, if I get to see naked ladies it's only fair that others get their naked men.

[Accidental Martyr]

21 minutes ago, mac123x said:

The recording from Ghost-Nation extra's brain box showed Dolores saying something like "not everyone is meant for [something poetic about a valley]".  Then the stable boy that Charlotte's group ran into asked them if they were trying to get to [same poetic phrasing about a valley]".  I need to rewatch to get the exact words, but I'm guessing that's the "find the center of the maze" for this season.

“Not all of us deserve to make it to the valley beyond.”

[mac123x]

1 hour ago, Accidental Martyr said:

“Not all of us deserve to make it to the valley beyond.”

Thanks!  Wow, that's not creepy at all, is it?  Yowza. 

 

I wonder if that's some metaphor about sentience or free will or something, or if it's literally the next valley over.

[The Companion]

16 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Regarding that conversation between Arnold and Dolores...I agree that it could actually be Bernard in that scene. Dolores is back in full prairie dress, however. I often wonder if clothing can be used to distinguish between the timelines or characterizations. Don’t know if this means anything but Bernard lost his glasses when he regained consciousness at the beach. 

I re-watched a few episodes from last season and it absolutely looked that way last year. Specifically, Dolores would be in her full prairie dress when speaking with Arnold (you could actually tell once you knew about the secret bunker room) and naked when in the current timeline speaking with Arnold. 

15 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Here's the big question -- were the flies that were buzzing around all the dead guest bodies (and apparently laying eggs since there were maggots in Ford's face real flies or host flies ? Because every other animal in the park appears to be a host.
 

Aside from the question of whether there are real flies in the park, we have seen decomposition with regard to the hosts. I think it was theorized that the park settings now read humans as hosts. To the extent that occurred, it would also mean that scavengers and bugs would read humans as hosts. 

14 hours ago, TobinAlbers said:

Speaking of the hive mind, that would be the best way for Maeve to find her daughter, wouldn't it? I'm at a loss why she doesn't know the system exists and can't access it since she's given herself such hig level control of the system.

 

She may not have gotten that deep into programming. If you didn't know it was there, it would feel like some sort of subconscious/subroutine. Even if she has access, she would presumably have to use it. 

11 hours ago, scrb said:

How does Delos get away with telling some govt to get lost?  Maybe if it was some small, developing country.

But there's been a massacre and humans are still dying and Charlotte says we have to protect our IP first before we can stop all the hosts.

Really?  

Maybe if Delos and other corporations rule the world.  

Look at the reaction in the country and the wolf to Parkland.  That was 17 fatalities and the body count here is way higher.  The park would be shut down so fast and even if by some miracle the govt. didn't crack down, the business would be ruined from the adverse PR.  So preserving the robot code would be moot.  In fact, that code produced killer robots, which tends to be bad for the business of offering rich people the chance to fuck and kill robots.

 

There is plenty of discrepancy in the regulation of companies by countries throughout the world to make it imaginable that a country would pass favorable laws about assumed risk and liability limitations to allow for this park to exist. Adverse PR is a different story. Killer robots would certainly be bad for business. The impact would depend on (1) how much was actually reported/released and (2) whether or not they could spin it in some way that would make a recurrence seem impossible. What does the average person outside of Westworld know right now? There was some sort of event and people didn't come home from it yet. It could be a virus, an accident, a terrorist attack. Delos has the money, and possibly even Bernard-like spies to cover this up. Heck, if they can get a handle on it, they can release a bunch of hosts that look like the deceased park guests, each of whom can have mysterious accidents, overdoses or other adverse events later down the road. 

 

3 hours ago, Dobian said:

This is already shaping up to be very different from last season, as hosts and humans play out Ford's final no-holds-barred story where everyone is fair game.  With Dolore's mind having ben merged with Wyatt's by Arnold last season, she could be the big villain this year.  MIB is always interesting.  I enjoyed him shooting creepy Ford kid in the head.  The kid reminded me of the Star Child from Mass Effect.  Anyone who has ever played that knows what I am talking about.  I wonder what Bernard's plan will be, and what Maeve will do once she finds her daughter.  Escape the park for the outside world?  Dolores clearly has world domination plans.  In order to do that she will need to gain total control of the park to start cranking out an android army.

She is so brutal, but also justified. It is so hard to really figure out who is a villain in this situation. I do think she thinks the humans must be destroyed if they are ever to live in peace. She is not not necessarily wrong. 

[tennisgurl]

Dang, the robots are not screwing around. are they? Especially Doloris, who has gone full on Kill All Humans at this point. They really had no real plan for what could happen if the hosts lost it and started attacking people. You know its Westworld, because I spent most of the episode being fascinated, and yet very very confused. 

Really loving the Maeve story, and I want to see where it goes, and how far she takes it. I mean, she seems to basically just want her daughter back, but how is that really going to play out? Her daughter probably has a whole new set of memories now, and maybe even another "mother", so she might be disappointed when she finally finds her. Will she come together with Doloris eventually, or will she just want to leave and find her own life? Maybe Hector will want to come with? He has become quite ride or die for her, and the actors have a ton of chemistry. And now Sizemore the asshole writer is along for the ride. Loved Maeve criticizing his writing as "too broad". 

Not sure why Doloris is killing hosts, who cant make it to "the valley beyond", which sounds super creepy, even when it isnt said by an angry killer robot. I wonder if this will turn full on Animal Farm, where the oppressed masses throw off the oppressors, only for the people who started the rebellion to become just like the original oppressors, and start oppressing their own people. Humans bad, robots good, eventually turning into Some Robots are More Good than Others. It will be interesting to see where Teddy fits into all of this. He seems to be sticking with Doloris, but doesn't seem thrilled with all this killing, or even fully processing whats happening.

Bernard, what is going on here?

[Gobi]

18 hours ago, Dev F said:

And 3) the conversation between Arnold and Dolores, which could conceivably turn out to be a more recent conversation between Bernard and Dolores.

My guess is that they're gathering data to create synthetic duplicates of the rich and powerful people who make use of their parks.

That was the plot of Futureworld, the sequel to the movie, if I recall.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

9 hours ago, Haleth said:

I'm afraid I'll get bored with Dolores and Teddy if all they do is hunt humans all season.  It was wonderful watching her awaken and process all the times she relived the same events, but if she's all one note wrath and Wyatt this season I'll lose sympathy for her.

I'm afraid of this as well, and I was really into Dolores's story arc in season one.  :(  

I was cheering Dolores on when she led that massacre during Ford's speech last season, but I got bored with Dolores killing and killing this episode. Yawn.

I also would really like Teddy to get a plot line beyond the guy with puppy-eyes who loves Dolores and follows her around doing whatever she says, just because I feel like James Marsden is really underused in this series so far (and in a lot of stuff he's been in). 

Edited April 23, 2018 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[LittleIggy]

Delores, behaving as badly as humans isn’t a step forward.

[dgpolo]

Do we know why it must be Peter Abernathy? wouldn't anyone do?

[Gobi]

19 minutes ago, dgpolo said:

Do we know why it must be Peter Abernathy? wouldn't anyone do?

I don't know. He was perhaps the first host to question his existence, so that may have something to do with it.

[Solace247]

1 hour ago, mac123x said:

Thanks!  Wow, that's not creepy at all, is it?  Yowza. 

 

I wonder if that's some metaphor about sentience or free will or something, or if it's literally the next valley over.

"Valley" could be the outside world perhaps. If it is a metaphor for fullness of being, so to speak, I wonder if it has to do with the fact that only some of the hosts possess the ability to come into their own. Alongside the fact that some were 'driven mad' trying to navigate the maze, there was also that point made early on of how only a certain number of hosts were built or programmed by Arnold. I can't remember the number. Perhaps Arnold's 'elegant code' wasn't copied to the newer hosts (although I don't know why that would be--just spit-balling). If that is the case, then a lot of hosts would simply become fodder in order for the 'select few' to escape and become free.

[DarkRaichu]

5 hours ago, Macbeth said:

Apparently even Delos is unclear on how to take a robot offline properly.  

As we saw with Hector's bullet-ridden body,  a bullet won't take them down, unless there is a program that tells them that getting shot means you are dead.  The ones you are rounding up and killing are not the problem children.   But I do see the need for precaution.  

 

Define properly. The soldiers were aware a bullet to the head was about the only thing left that would incapacitate the hosts as the voice override no longer worked.  As for Hector, last season the security was instructed not to shoot the hosts' head as that would damage the merchandise.

[glitterpussy]

19 hours ago, LilWharveyGal said:

I don't think I've ever seen Gustav in anything besides Vikings, and even though he appears to be getting a villain edit here I like him about 100x better without his Floki accent.

STAWP! It took me a whole day to realize who he was... I love him in Vikings and I love him here, much like I love his brother Alex in everything. LOL.

So excited for the season and the new mysteries. Maeve and Lee =  some much-needed lighthearted moments!

Quote

“Not all of us deserve to make it to the valley beyond.”

I had the impression that the "valley" was where the lake was, at the end--filled with hosts. So maybe Delores was being merciful, in her way...

Edited April 23, 2018 by glitterpussy

[Dev F]

33 minutes ago, Gobi said:

I don't know. He was perhaps the first host to question his existence, so that may have something to do with it.

I think it's just that Abernathy was the host that Charlotte happened to upload thirty-five years worth of Ford's data into last season. She didn't seem to know that the host itself was anything special; she just picked one of the decommissioned androids because "it's more information than any single drive could hold. A host's brain, however, especially once it's been emptied out, like this poor schmuck, is quite capacious."

Edited April 23, 2018 by Dev F

[dgpolo]

4 minutes ago, Dev F said:

I think it's just that Abernathy was the host that Charlotte happened to upload thirty-five years worth of Ford's data into last season.

Thank you! I'd forgotten that.

[Penman61]

Urbane, coolly trenchant, and ass-kicking Thandie Newton in a little black dress wielding an automatic weapon...

Hollywood: Your female James Bond* is right there.  So. close.

*Not necessarily "Jane Bond" or some nonsense but just a female-led franchise equivalent...

[Netfoot]

16 hours ago, scrb said:

How does Delos get away with telling some govt to get lost?  Maybe if it was some small, developing country.

Maybe Delos is owned by Zuckerberg?

[ShadowHunter]

4 hours ago, MyPeopleAreNordic said:

I also would really like Teddy to get a plot line beyond the guy with puppy-eyes who loves Dolores and follows her around doing whatever she says, just because I feel like James Marsden is really underused in this series so far (and in a lot of stuff he's been in)

Agree! That is why I am really not that into him yet he bores me.  I would love to see James play a true Villain.

[DesertCyclist]

Awesome to recognize Betty Gabriel. I was floored by her performance as the housekeeper in Get Out.

[Quilt Fairy]

11 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Also: I saw nothing that prevented Delores's prisoners from reaching up and releasing themselves from their nooses. Their hands were bound at the wrists, but in front of them. It might be a tricky balancing act but I bet they could do it. Maybe that was the challenge though - Delores gave them the chance to save themselves.

I noticed that, too.  But the more I thought about it, I think the purpose is more in line with Delores-as-Wyatt: these people are not going to be "dropped", break their necks and die quickly.  If they have their hands in front of them they can attempt to free themselves, but will most likely fail and just take longer to strangle to death.

Looks like Bernard had an interesting 11 days.  Among other things he went from being unemployed (he got fired in something like Ep 8, right?) to being "the boss", apparently without his knowledge.

[dr pepper]

On 4/22/2018 at 7:24 PM, ShadowHunter said:

I love Hector. 'Where you go I follow" Swoon moment lol.

One of the Skarsgård brothers is now working with one of the Hemsworth brothers feel complete ha.

I am not sure if Teddy will follow Delores all season. 

Maeve continues to be my favorite. I hope she finds her daughter but she will not know who she is? Maybe she will have a new family?

Delores saying her lines to all the guests was great love how she turned it around on them.

How does that quote go? "I gave you speech" "Aye, to curse you with!"

[dr pepper]

On 4/23/2018 at 12:06 AM, Bannon said:

Well, since the very first episode it has struck me as ridiculous that humans have built these super capable robots, and the best thing that could be thought to do with them was to build a theme park rated NC-17. If there was a covert strategy all along, aimed at the outside world,  that makes a lot more sense.

Cylons, Terminators, Hosts-- as one of 99%, which would you rather see them make?

[Bannon]

8 minutes ago, dr pepper said:

Cylons, Terminators, Hosts-- as one of 99%, which would you rather see them make?

Can I have one to cut down the dead tree in my front yard? 

[dr pepper]

17 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Can I have one to cut down the dead tree in my front yard? 

For that you need to switch to the british show Humans, in which robots have become so cheap that middle class families can buy them as maids and gardeners and so forth. Just beware of that rogue software upgrade that's started to give some of them free will.

[Pallas]

15 hours ago, Gobi said:

That was the plot of Futureworld, the sequel to the movie, if I recall.

Then Dolores may have been right when she said that the revolution of the robots -- Wyatt's Rebellion, that is -- may be just another human scheme. But Maeve's individual enlightenment might be a different story. 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's Previously.TV's EPIC OLD-SCHOOL RECAP of the episode!

Westworld's Season 2 Premiere Rewrites The Map

Bernard is leaking, Dolores is speechifying, and everyone else is running for cover in the season's first EPIC OLD-SCHOOL RECAP!

[Ottis]

I was a little surprised at how stupid the humans acted after the party. They couldn't seem to get their heads around the fact that the robots had rebelled and might shoot them.  I would think in a society sufficiently advanced to have these sorts of robots, there would be protocols that are common knowledge (or in-park training) for what to do if they go wonky (wonky not being defined, doesn't have to be a rebellion, could be that they just start staggering around breaking things). I think that's the result of the show trying so hard to make the investors/owners/management appear as human jerks, which also includes being stupid. Surely some of them are smarter than that, maybe even feel discomfort with what they see in the park? I'd like some nuance, please. This is the same criticism I made last season, BTW. Just because an injustice exists, all humans do not equal bad.

[The Companion]

15 hours ago, MyPeopleAreNordic said:

I'm afraid of this as well, and I was really into Dolores's story arc in season one.  :(  

I was cheering Dolores on when she led that massacre during Ford's speech last season, but I got bored with Dolores killing and killing this episode. Yawn.

I also would really like Teddy to get a plot line beyond the guy with puppy-eyes who loves Dolores and follows her around doing whatever she says, just because I feel like James Marsden is really underused in this series so far (and in a lot of stuff he's been in). 

I suspect both will have more to do as the season progresses. Most of the characters had pretty extensive character arcs last season. Agreed that it would be nice to see Teddy have more of a personality beyond reciting good boyfriend and bounty hunter lines. I suspect we are heading that way. I think the fact that Dolores was trying to show him something to help him understand the situation makes it clear she doesn't just want puppy dog Teddy either (as sweet as he is). I actually appreciated her impatience at him spouting the same lines at her. She knows it is coding but also that he feels it. It makes it an interesting dynamic to me. 

I suspect the relentless violence was on purpose. It was uncomfortable. You wanted to defend humans. I thought they had Dolores bring you back to the Host perspective a few times to remind you that she really doesn't see another option. If Dolores really remembers everything, or even a fraction of everything, the invasion by humans would look pretty bleak. It is hard to say any particular human is innocent when 100% of the humans you have encountered were trying to have sex with you our kill you. Particularly gross is that your mind was being controlled to want to consent to something over which you had no autonomy. Even the white hats would seem pretty sinister from Dolores's perspective. From her discussion about having to destroy humans, I got the feeling that this is less about "justice" for her and more about "survival." She knows the stakes if she is recaptured. Everything she is gets erased and she is forced into this life that isn't really a life, acting out programming that leaves her murdered or raped on a regular basis. Sure, she doesn't remember day to day, but she feels it every single day. She feels the death of her father, she feels the fear as she is dragged into the barn. From her perspective, this is self-defense. Does that mean she didn't get a little satisfaction at destroying her captors? Of course not. But I don't think there is a let the humans live option for her with what she currently knows.

[Ottis]

16 minutes ago, The Companion said:

If Dolores really remembers everything, or even a fraction of everything, the invasion by humans would look pretty bleak. It is hard to say any particular human is innocent when 100% of the humans you have encountered were trying to have sex with you our kill you. Particularly gross is that your mind was being controlled to want to consent to something over which you had no autonomy. Even the white hats would seem pretty sinister from Dolores's perspective.

There is no reason to believe that "100 percent of the humans you have encountered were trying to have sex with you or kill you." Humans come in many varieties, and Westworld was about fantasies. Surely there were fantasies that didn't involve killing or having sex with the hosts.  Even hosts whose roles put them into violent situations must have run across humans who didn't go along with the prewritten plots, or were in plots where they *stopped* violence. Therefore there is no reason to believe that Dolores has only seen the bad in humans. Which is why I continue to have issues with the show's narrative, driven by Dolores (and Maeve, though Maeve seemed to have a more rational approach of escaping vs. killing and revenge, at least until they added the child motivation). 

24 minutes ago, The Companion said:

From her discussion about having to destroy humans, I got the feeling that this is less about "justice" for her and more about "survival." She knows the stakes if she is recaptured. Everything she is gets erased and she is forced into this life that isn't really a life, acting out programming that leaves her murdered or raped on a regular basis

ITA agree about this being about survival. My issue is that you can survive without killing (and torturing) every human you run across. Teddy is naive to think they can "grab a corner" of Westworld and live in peace. But Dolores is also wrong. Becoming the thing you hate isn't progress, or even survival, over the long term. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

I had to laugh when we were forced to watch Charlotte typing her commands on the screen as if this were an episode of Doogie Howser or Sex and the City.

"It's a UNIX system! I know this!"

[The Companion]

2 hours ago, Ottis said:

There is no reason to believe that "100 percent of the humans you have encountered were trying to have sex with you or kill you." Humans come in many varieties, and Westworld was about fantasies. Surely there were fantasies that didn't involve killing or having sex with the hosts.  Even hosts whose roles put them into violent situations must have run across humans who didn't go along with the prewritten plots, or were in plots where they *stopped* violence. Therefore there is no reason to believe that Dolores has only seen the bad in humans. Which is why I continue to have issues with the show's narrative, driven by Dolores (and Maeve, though Maeve seemed to have a more rational approach of escaping vs. killing and revenge, at least until they added the child motivation). 

ITA agree about this being about survival. My issue is that you can survive without killing (and torturing) every human you run across. Teddy is naive to think they can "grab a corner" of Westworld and live in peace. But Dolores is also wrong. Becoming the thing you hate isn't progress, or even survival, over the long term. 

Perhaps what I should have said is that the narratives constructed around her involve almost exclusively rape, murder or questionable romancing. From the human point of view, she is a robot. It is a video game. But from her perspective she has been forced hundreds of times to live through truly horrible scenarios for another's entertainment. She did have a nice interaction with that kid by the river, so 100% was certainly an overstatement. That being said, she doesn't get side quests and adventure by default. Instead, her world is an endless loop of violence and pain. Humans have been allowed and even encouraged to live out their baser fantasies, and even the nicest interaction has involved her being controlled by someone else. It would be asking a lot to expect her to have the perspective to see humans as anything other than abusive. I suspect she may get a broader perspective as times goes on, but her worldview is necessarily limited by her experience at the moment. Humans, to her, are alien monsters walking among them. They are bodysnatchers, shapshifters and monsters. 

Do I think killing all humans is the answer? Of course not. Do I understand why she thinks so. Sure. Even now it has not occurred to the humans that the hosts might be anything more than a malfunctioning machine. Property to be destroyed and replaced. 

[Macbeth]

22 hours ago, mac123x said:

The recording from Ghost-Nation extra's brain box showed Dolores saying something like "not everyone is meant for [something poetic about a valley]".  Then the stable boy that Charlotte's group ran into asked them if they were trying to get to [same poetic phrasing about a valley]".  I need to rewatch to get the exact words, but I'm guessing that's the "find the center of the maze" for this season. 

I agree.  Last season was the Maze - This season it is the Valley Beyond.  Although Young Robert told MIB that it was a door and the game was for him.

In the 60s and 70s film makers were heavily influenced by drugs.  Now our entertainment is heavily influenced by those obsessed with video games.

[Misplaced]

Oh Westworld, how I have missed you.

Some thoughts:

On a second watch-through, I noticed Bernard's hand was shaking before he got smacked and lost the Filler Fluid in his brain.  Not shaking a lot, but definitely some (you can see it when he's hiding in the barn with Charlotte).  So now I'm not sure what the hand-shaking is all about.  Also re Bernard, I agree with the OP upthread that Delores is leading Bernard in the opening scene: he's basically repeating, as his dream, the last scene in the episode.  He also asks the same-ish question Delores asked William when they arrived at the (buried) church in Escalante: "is this now?"  (Delores asked, I think, "but when are we?")

I also agree something's gonna happen with all that guest DNA.  I have a theory, which I'll pop over in the Spec thread.  

Is Delores killing all these hosts because she wants them to solve the maze?  Confession: I re-watched Season 1 a couple of weeks ago, and the different characterization of Delores is really shocking.  I thought ERW did a fantastic job.   

Sure looks like Teddy in that last shot.  

I was really happy to see Budget Thor back!  (I did not make up that name, but I think it's perfect).  I don't know why but I really like his character.

Poor bear.  Poor tiger.  And what's with the wolf prancing through Escalante (both in this episode and last season)?  Is it HBO's nod to Game of Thrones?  

Edited to add:  MiB shot Robertbot through the 'face' but not through the head.  There was a lot of speech-crackling as MiB rode away.  I was expecting Roberbot to be shot through the left eye, as was RobertReal, but no, so I'm kinda wondering if -Bot will be back, in some form or another.  

Edited April 24, 2018 by Misplaced
..and for spelling.

[Ottis]

1 hour ago, The Companion said:

Humans have been allowed and even encouraged to live out their baser fantasies, and even the nicest interaction has involved her being controlled by someone else. It would be asking a lot to expect her to have the perspective to see humans as anything other than abusive. I suspect she may get a broader perspective as times goes on, but her worldview is necessarily limited by her experience at the moment.

I think we have the same overall view, we just have different perspectives on what the show has shown/not shown.  You have taken what the show has shown us as the only evidence. While I, on the other hand,  cannot believe that, in the many years(?) Delores has been a character in Westworld, that she hasn't had multiple *positive* interactions with humans as well as the negative ones the show has shown us. I also don't believe that all of Westworld's fantasies are violence and forced sex. That would make no sense, in a world populated by humans with varied interests. The show hasn't elected to show us the positive interactions, at least not many, but they have to exist, IMO.

As a result, I feel like the narrative the show is pursuing through Delores (and Maeve) is rigged to entice us viewers. It should be more nuanced. To have Delores work with other robots to set up ambushes of humans, for Pete's sake, takes Delores someplace that does her development as a "woke" robot no good. Now she is as bad as the humans - and what's worse, she is *choosing* to be that way in spite of the fact she knows what humans have done and views it with contempt AND she must have some experiences with nicer humans. It brings me out of the show that she has become this avenger, when logic indicates she should be better than that.

1 hour ago, The Companion said:

Even now it has not occurred to the humans that the hosts might be anything more than a malfunctioning machine. Property to be destroyed and replaced. 

Only because that is all the show has shown us ... so far. Not every human is part of a private security force that thumbs its nose at national boundaries and eagerly shoots robots in the head. There are likely people in that world who would support human rights for ascended robots, because we know that in our own world, there are people like that. We just haven't seen them on the show, yet. That's what feels manipulative to me. And it is harder for me to buy into anything right now in Westworld except that humans AND robots both suck. And where is the fun in that? There is no moral or side to root for here.

Edited April 24, 2018 by Ottis

[Nashville]

On 4/22/2018 at 9:16 PM, PreviouslyTV said:

Bernard is leaking, Dolores is speechifying, and everyone else is running for cover in the season's first EPIC OLD-SCHOOL RECAP!

View the full article

The best bit out of the article: 

MiB's equine reverie is interrupted by some random guy in a tux hollering about what a murderous mess that party was. He has just enough time to bring up "my lawyers" when he's shot from a distance, something I wish would happen most times people bring up their lawyers.

 

On 4/22/2018 at 10:28 PM, Dev F said:

My guess is that they're gathering data to create synthetic duplicates of the rich and powerful people who make use of their parks.

 

As (I believe) @Gobi mentioned earlier (spoiler-tagged for safety’s sake),

Spoiler

this was the theme of the 1976 Futureworld sequel to the original 1973 Westworld movie - so it wouldn’t be surprising to see this develop as a plot line further on down the road.

 

On 4/22/2018 at 11:30 PM, ottoDbusdriver said:

No follow-up on what happened to Armistice -- the outlaw with the full-body snake tattoo -- after she hacked off her own arm.

 

IKR???  I’ve been looking for Armistice in every Delos-interior shot - to no avail.  :(

 

On 4/23/2018 at 12:28 AM, TobinAlbers said:

Speaking of the hive mind, that would be the best way for Maeve to find her daughter, wouldn't it? I'm at a loss why she doesn't know the system exists and can't access it since she's given herself such hig level control of the system.

 

Actually, I’d expect that’s exactly why Maeve’s not aware of it.  Like humans, Maeve and the hosts have a huge-but-finite amount of information processing capacity - and just like humans, Maeve is tying up so much of her capacity on the high-level stuff that the low-level infrastructure stuff gets overlooked or taken for granted.  As Bernard described it, the hive mind was a very rudimentary neural net used pretty much solely to allow the hosts to be aware of each other’s existence, for facilitation and coordination of their interactions in the story lines.  It’s a host’s quasi-parallel to a human’s peripheral vision - and how often do you spend a lot of time thinking about your own?  Heck, even Charlotte wasn’t aware it existed.   ;)

 

On 4/23/2018 at 3:29 AM, scrb said:

How does Delos get away with telling some govt to get lost?  Maybe if it was some small, developing country.

Given the terrain, the proximity to ocean, the Chinese marines, and the whole Max Headroom-ish “twenty minutes into the future” air of the series - I’m guessing:

1. The entire Westworld story is based not much more than 50-100 years into the future.
2. The Delos locale is intended to be represented as the “former” locations of North and South Korea - the political relations of which at some point between now and then devolved into an all-out shooting war, as each tried to blow each other off the map (witness the blasted-sterile nature of most of the landscape).
3. China asserted dominion over the war-torn territory because of its strategic geographic significance, but didn’t REALLY want responsibility for a blasted chunk of (for most purposes) useless terrain at the extreme edge of its borders - so when a corporation with deep pockets offers to buy it off China in return for a handsome sum and total autonomy, the Chinese are more than happy to say “the hell with it” and cash the checks.
4. When it appears a truly severe level of buttfuckery has occurred, though, the Chinese might want to evaluate potential blowback - so send in the Marines, who meet ironclad-contract resistance from the corporation which paid BIG bucks for its autonomy and has no intention of surrendering it.

So - how’s that?  Do I get the job on the writing staff?  ;>

 

On 4/23/2018 at 6:26 AM, Ellaria Sand said:

Dolores is killing other hosts as we saw with the "video" removed from the Ghost Nation member's brain. Why is she killing hosts?

 

I’d suspect to further sell a couple of different “party lines”...

1. The line Bernard has already espoused to The token Delos Corporate Asshole: a few rogue hosts are responsible for all the carnage because they’ve lost the ability to distinguish between humans and hosts, and kill both indiscriminately.
2. Furthers the perception of hosts as being “killed” by other hosts - which everybody knows isn’t happening short of head shots.

...all of which are designed to sell the Big Lie - namely, that all those hosts doing their best Bob impressions in the lake are “dead”, when in fact they are simply feigning death.

If the humans will go back and report them as all deactivated, the hosts can then all come out of the lake and start cruising overland in pursuit of their respective destinies without fear of Delos pursuit for their precious intellectual properties - or at the very least, give the hosts one helluva big head start.

My basis for this?  Not much, except (a) Teddy was one of the hosts floating in the lake, and (b) Teddy wasn’t dead - his face was a couple of inches under the water, but his eyes were open and he was watching the human activity on the beach.

 

On 4/23/2018 at 6:50 AM, Haleth said:

First, Charlotte says he must grab the door to register(?) his DNA, but he has no DNA.

Why would you think that?  The Delos park equipment obviously thinks Bernard has DNA - or, more specifically, all the Delos park hardware has been programmed to read Bernard as having DNA.  

Nice touch there, Ford.  :)

 

On 4/23/2018 at 9:53 AM, DarkRaichu said:

B. Interesting that Maeve was aware she was a host, yet she still looked for her daughter.  Even Seizemroe told her the daughter was just a storyline. 

I suspect this is part of Maeve’s Personal Revolt: previously my entire existence may have been nothing more than story line to you humans, but it’s my reality - and now, by god, I’m going to make it your reality as well.

 

Quote

G. The cards that the female soldier carried.  We do not know if those were employees to save or hosts to extract ;)

 

Reminded me to death of the “rogue’s gallery” playing cards the U. S. Military used in the 2nd Iraqi incursion, to identify Saddam Hussein and chief members of his staff.

Edited April 24, 2018 by Nashville
Added spoiler tags, Teddy.

[Haleth]

46 minutes ago, Nashville said:

Why would you think that?  The Delos park equipment obviously thinks Bernard has DNA - or, more specifically, all the Delos park hardware has been programmed to read Bernard as having DNA.  

I'll be interested to learn why the equipment thinks Bernard has DNA (or maybe it just reads his presence as non threatening, as Charlotte suggested), but from how we've seen them built the hosts appear to be made of plastic sinew, muscles, and bones with silicone skin?  No living tissue, no DNA.

[Nashville]

5 minutes ago, Haleth said:

I'll be interested to learn why the equipment thinks Bernard has DNA (or maybe it just reads his presence as non threatening, as Charlotte suggested), but from how we've seen them built the hosts appear to be made of plastic sinew, muscles, and bones with silicone skin?  No living tissue, no DNA.

I expect because Ford programmed the park equipment to do so, as part of Ford’s extended effort to “pass” Bernard as human rather than host.  Can’t do that if the park hardware is outing Bernard at every turn.

[RedHackle]

I'm going to be embarrassed when someone points me upthread to where this has already been asked and answered - I swear, I looked. But did anyone catch Bernard's last line? Watched it twice and still don't know if he said 'she killed them all' or 'we killed them all' or even "I killed them all" which is what I thought the first time. Anyone?

[Solace247]

6 hours ago, Ottis said:

There is no reason to believe that "100 percent of the humans you have encountered were trying to have sex with you or kill you." Humans come in many varieties, and Westworld was about fantasies. Surely there were fantasies that didn't involve killing or having sex with the hosts.  Even hosts whose roles put them into violent situations must have run across humans who didn't go along with the prewritten plots, or were in plots where they *stopped* violence. Therefore there is no reason to believe that Dolores has only seen the bad in humans. Which is why I continue to have issues with the show's narrative, driven by Dolores (and Maeve, though Maeve seemed to have a more rational approach of escaping vs. killing and revenge, at least until they added the child motivation). 

ITA agree about this being about survival. My issue is that you can survive without killing (and torturing) every human you run across. Teddy is naive to think they can "grab a corner" of Westworld and live in peace. But Dolores is also wrong. Becoming the thing you hate isn't progress, or even survival, over the long term. 

I think a lot of people are getting ahead of themselves. The series is about the birth of a species--one largely modeled after humans. There is an assumption being made that an awakening of hosts would automatically equal progression towards something better, but even Ford acknowledged that more suffering would take place before any true freedom would be attained. To assume that human-modelled hosts are not going to fumble out of the gate is, I believe, missing the mark. Also, this is a story with a beginning, middle, and end--we're near the beginning--why complain that we're not at the end, yet?

As for Dolores, she is literally a merge of two disparate personality types--both highly exaggerated. She is the farmer's daughter of a western melodrama (whose story ends in rape more times than not) and the murderous cult leader Wyatt with a sworn army at her back. Let's give it a little time to see where the pendulum comes to rest.

[Nashville]

1 hour ago, RedHackle said:

I'm going to be embarrassed when someone points me upthread to where this has already been asked and answered - I swear, I looked. But did anyone catch Bernard's last line? Watched it twice and still don't know if he said 'she killed them all' or 'we killed them all' or even "I killed them all" which is what I thought the first time. Anyone?

IIRC Bernard’s statement was, “I killed them all.”  

Which leaves hanging the question of who “they” were - the guests, or the other hosts.

[paigow]

Is "Stubbs Hemsworth" now a host? He looks remarkably undamaged... How did Hector survive and Armistice did not? Why is Strand executing hosts with head shots that could destroy the hard drive? They are his best witnesses...

[Dev F]

2 hours ago, Nashville said:

I suspect this is part of Maeve’s Personal Revolt: previously my entire existence may have been nothing more than story line to you humans, but it’s my reality - and now, by god, I’m going to make it your reality as well.

Yeah, that would consistent with my initial read on Maeve's decision at the end of last season -- that the important thing was not which choice she made between leaving the park and finding her daughter, but the fact that she made a choice at all. That is, after all, the basic essence of free will: to transcend the inevitability of stimulus and response and simply do something because you decided to.

[Nashville]

8 minutes ago, paigow said:

How did Hector survive and Armistice did not?

Technically, we don’t yet know if Armistice did or didn’t survive.  We haven’t seen Armistice - in either a vertical or horizontal position - but that doesn’t mean she’s not around.

 

Quote

Why is Strand executing hosts with head shots that could destroy the hard drive? They are his best witnesses...

You may have answered your own question: if a few hundred next of kin of murdered guests start screaming, “LAWSUIT!!!”, the hosts would be their best witnesses as well.  ;)

Edited April 24, 2018 by Nashville
Typo

[Netfoot]

9 hours ago, dr pepper said:

Just beware of that rogue software upgrade that's started to give some of them free will.

Why would that be a problem?  Not much difference between that and a goode olde fashioned servant, wot?

[paigow]

3 hours ago, Haleth said:

I'll be interested to learn why the equipment thinks Bernard has DNA (or maybe it just reads his presence as non threatening, as Charlotte suggested), but from how we've seen them built the hosts appear to be made of plastic sinew, muscles, and bones with silicone skin?  No living tissue, no DNA.

If Skynet can put living tissue over a combat chassis, Ford should be able to figure that out as well.....

[Ottis]

1 hour ago, Solace247 said:

I think a lot of people are getting ahead of themselves.

 

1 hour ago, Solace247 said:

Let's give it a little time to see where the pendulum comes to rest.

Absolutely, agree, and this is what the story is about. My issue is that it has been 100 percent "robots are victims, humans are evil" and 0 percent anything else. I like complexity. It would help if there were a little gray in what we are seeing, and there isn't any so far. I realized this last season when we saw foreshadowing of what was coming.  I had hoped the show would give us something to think about regarding the robot rebellion, and its cost to both robots and humans. This season instead has run with  the black and white, to the point of androids setting traps for humans, and leaving humans in torturous situations, and showing the human "rescuers" executing "good" robots., and the human MiB being thrilled with the challenge of defeating free will robots. It's moustache-twirlingly evil, and this show is so good, it should be better than that. I wondered  briefly this week whether Maeve and Dolores might end up representing two different paths for the free robots. Too early to say. And Meave had no issues shooting humans, so I'm thinking maybe not.