S02.E05: The Kennedy Curse

[CooperTV]

Quote

When a mission goes awry, Wyatt and Rufus are forced to bring a 17-year-old John F. Kennedy with them to the present. But while the Lifeboat is recharging for the return trip, Kennedy escapes from the bunker… into modern day San Francisco. Anxious to return the future president to history, the team must find a way to work together to rescue JFK and return him to the past before Rittenhouse assassinates him in 2018.

Promos

[legaleagle53]

And it's going to be another "Oh, HELL no!" moment for Agent Christopher.  They're going to need a bigger bunker if this keeps up!

[smiley13]

Will they show 17 year old Kennedy out trying to pick up women, lol.

[kav]

Since the time team can not go to the same time in the past more than once, does that mean that different people are going to need to return him then originally go and is there going to be 4 people in the lifeboat again and cause more issues?

[Maverick]

 I believe the rule is you can't go to a time you already exist.  As long as they go back to a point in time after they left the first time, it should be fine.  

[legaleagle53]

1 hour ago, Maverick said:

 I believe the rule is you can't go to a time you already exist.  As long as they go back to a point in time after they left the first time, it should be fine.  

But the problem is that Kennedy will still be going back to a time when he already exists.  How are they going to get around that?

[redpencil]

I assume they take him back to a point in time after they extracted him (like a day or whatever). So he won't exist there at that point in time.

[bluestocking]

I'm looking forward to seeing if they tried to recreate the Choate School in Connecticut.  I wonder where they filled the boarding school scenes.

[Glambert123]

Spoilers for tonight (I watched at 7)

 

 

 

 

I loved the actor that they got to play JFK - he was perfect casting. He was very convincing - portraying the confusion, anger, and uncertainty in his situation. I felt awful for Rufus - AGAIN trying to save someone from a fateful death - and AGAIN failing. But did the change on the coin mean that he WAS successful? I didn't get a good look at it - just saw that it had morphed into something else.

I totally called it on the triangle to rectangle scenario. Lucy selflessly gave Wyatt up for Jess - now Wyatt is already giving her longing regretful looks - and Flynn is already starting to bond with Lucy.

Next weeks show looks AMAZING. I don't think Wyatt will be able to pull the trigger.

Edited April 16, 2018 by Glambert123
watched ahead of time

[smiley13]

37 minutes ago, Glambert123 said:

I loved the actor that they got to play JFK - he was perfect casting. He was very convincing - portraying the confusion, anger, and uncertainty in his situation. I felt awful for Rufus - AGAIN trying to save someone from a fateful death - and AGAIN failing. But did the change on the coin mean that he WAS successful? I didn't get a good look at it - just saw that it had morphed into something else.

I totally called it on the triangle to rectangle scenario. Lucy selflessly gave Wyatt up for Jess - now Wyatt is already giving her longing regretful looks - and Flynn is already starting to bond with Lucy.

Next weeks show looks AMAZING. I don't think Wyatt will be able to pull the trigger.

How have you already watched it?

[Glambert123]

I have satellite - and paid extra for the time shifting package. I get to watch it every Sunday at 7 on one of my Global stations

[Glambert123]

Sorry - hope I didn't spoil it for you. I did go back and edit my post

[KaveDweller]

2 hours ago, Glambert123 said:

Spoilers for tonight (I watched at 7)

I loved the actor that they got to play JFK - he was perfect casting. He was very convincing - portraying the confusion, anger, and uncertainty in his situation. I felt awful for Rufus - AGAIN trying to save someone from a fateful death - and AGAIN failing. But did the change on the coin mean that he WAS successful? I didn't get a good look at it - just saw that it had morphed into something else.

I totally called it on the triangle to rectangle scenario. Lucy selflessly gave Wyatt up for Jess - now Wyatt is already giving her longing regretful looks - and Flynn is already starting to bond with Lucy.

Next weeks show looks AMAZING. I don't think Wyatt will be able to pull the trigger.

I don't really get why the coin changed. I guess it was supposed to be that JFK running towards Emma was putting him in danger, but if the coin really changed it should have also made everyone forget who he was and what they were doing. It seemed to be just for dramatic effect, because it makes no sense that would change the coin, but not him being in 2018.

I thought the actor was great as well, and I really enjoyed the change in having the bulk of the story take place in the present. This show does a really good job with casting of historical figures.

[wanderingstar]

I enjoyed that!

The actor playing Young Jack Kennedy did a good job. I actually bought the connection between him and Kayla. I was surprised to see that he wanted to go back after learning of his fate.

Rufus, Rufus, Rufus - stop trying to fix history. You know that never works.

I continue to loathe Carol and Emma.

It's just a show, but a chill went down my spine when that coin changed from Kennedy to Nixon.

I'm liking some of the relationships - Agent Christopher/Connor, Lucy/Jiya - that have developed over the course of the show.

Flynn was right and ready to sidle up to Lucy during her moment of vulnerability. Hmm...

Next week looks great!

[Lilac2000]

I loved that Lucy was so happy to have a cell phone on a mission. "I can just call you wheeee!" 

The coin changing briefly to Nixon was chilling...but I guess Wyatt was close enough that JFK was never in truly mortal danger from Emma so they all still remembered their missions. At least that's what I'm going with.

I just don't see a romantic thing with Flynn and Lucy...I could be wrong but it's more like he wants to protect her most of the time. Will they ever explain the journal thing though??

[phalange]

I love how they changed things up by bringing someone from the past into the present. The actor playing young JFK was really good. The scene where he learns about the Kennedy Curse was heartbreaking. I gasped out loud when the coin changed. I loved his exchange with Lucy when he asks if he becomes a good president and she tells him, "One of the greatest." Poor Rufus, trying to prevent his death only to come back and find out JFK still dies, just in a different city. I'm glad he tried anyway; I would have. Plus, he had reason to think it would work, because when he offered advice to Hedy Lamarr, it changed things for the better. I guess JFK's death is meant to be a "fixed point." But, wow do I relate to Rufus when he said he hates the phrase "everything happens for a reason." I hate that saying with the fire of a thousand suns.

The dynamic of Lucy, Wyatt, and Jessica looking for JFK together didn't disappoint. Jessica was instantly clued into Wyatt's feelings for Lucy as soon as Emma grabbed Lucy and Wyatt couldn't take the shot (a nice callback to the pilot!). Lucy and Jessica's conversation outside the hospital was well done. Both were willing to be selfless and walk away, but of course it's not that easy. I loved Lucy and Wyatt's scene at the end, as sad as it was, especially the babydoll/sweetheart exchange (another nice callback). 

Agent Christopher continues to be a badass. Of course Rittenhouse would stoop to threatening her children, though. One of the best scenes was Agent Christopher telling Lucy she'd be proud of her if she was her mother. She's definitely a better mother-figure to Lucy than Carol could ever be, since that ship has definitely sailed. 

[The Wild Sow]

3 hours ago, smiley13 said:

. But did the change on the coin mean that he WAS successful? I didn't get a good look at it - just saw that it had morphed into something else.

It changed to NIXON!  When young JFK was running toward Emma.  Presumably it changed back after she failed to assassinate him -- but at the end when the Lifeboat Crew ask whether JFK got a 2nd term, they learn that he was still killed halfway through his first.  Just some details had changed (like with Lincoln in Season 1.)

[LittleIggy]

As with Lincoln, I teared up over JFK. I yelled at the TV “Shut up!” when the girl told JFK that he would be president.

[Manda317]

JFK was so cute lol. I was so sad when he started learning about what happened to his family. It is sad that he still ended up dying. It would be hard to prevent something like that by just going to a different though. The president visits are announced ahead of time. It may have been more effective to tell him to precautions against snipers. The idea that some things will always happen no matter what you do is always interesting though.

This is kind of weird thing to think about, but JFK didn't read about his sister who had a lobatomy. It would have been cool if he had and had been able to stop his father from having it done.

Flynn still stood out the most to me even though he was only in a few parts of the episode. I love how he is concerned about Lucy. I don't know what will happen, but their scenes just make me happy lol. 

Still couldn't care less about Lyatt. I feel like my love of them died. Maybe one day I'll be into it again, but right now I can't take my eyes of Garcy. Maybe Flynn will get his family back and then I will like them again. It would make more sense than Wyatt and Jessica getting back together since he seemed to be a good husband and father. I just feel a pull between Garcy that I don't feel between Lyatt. Lyatt is sweet and happy, but Garcy, whatever they are to each other, just seems intense and emotional.

[possibilities]

I really liked that Jessica and Lucy worked well together and respected each other and didn't resort to any pettiness or other shitty behavior. It makes both of them look good. Also, it seems like Jessica is not Rittenhouse, after all, which surprised me.

The girl who befriended "John" now knows time travel is real? I wonder if she shows up again. Seems like there'd be ripples from that discovery.

[Stuffy]

I don’t know if it was scripted, but I laughed out loud when Lucy pointed at Jessica when the guy said someone’s mom was at the party. 

[Badlands]

Since the coin changed to Nixon, I guess that means that in the alternate timeline Nixon was elected president in 1960 and then assassinated. Obviously, he wouldn't be on the half dollar in 1964 if he was still president (or just former VP).

I liked the gas station clerk's response when JFK asked where he could find a payphone: "Probably at a museum."

[bros402]

I really liked tonight's episode. How is the casting department so good on this show? Do they have a time machine to go back and get people? I really hope Flynn doesn't try to romance Lucy and it just becomes a friendship. A creepy friendship, but a platonic friendship.

[magicdog]

2 hours ago, Manda317 said:

This is kind of weird thing to think about, but JFK didn't read about his sister who had a lobatomy. It would have been cool if he had and had been able to stop his father from having it done.

Or a moment when he exclaims, "My brother Ted did WHAT at Chappaquiddick"????  

[The Wild Sow]

1 hour ago, magicdog said:

Or a moment when he exclaims, "My brother Ted did WHAT at Chappaquiddick"????  

Teddy would have been a "Baby Brother" at the time as he was born in 1932.

[BooBear]

6 hours ago, phalange said:

The dynamic of Lucy, Wyatt, and Jessica looking for JFK together didn't disappoint. Jessica was instantly clued into Wyatt's feelings for Lucy as soon as Emma grabbed Lucy and Wyatt couldn't take the shot (a nice callback to the pilot!). Lucy and Jessica's conversation outside the hospital was well done. Both were willing to be selfless and walk away, but of course it's not that easy. I loved Lucy and Wyatt's scene at the end, as sad as it was, especially the babydoll/sweetheart exchange (another nice callback). 

I enjoyed it. The actor who did Jfk was good again.  I kind of felt for him.  Though I was thinking when he returned  to his time -- instead of nasa they might have some sort of time travel agency where connor mason did his residency or something. 

Is that it for Lyatt? It really seemed like they both accepted that it was over.  I enjoyed that Jessica wasn't a tool and got it when she saw Lucy get threatened.  One thing I keep thinking - the theme of this year is that history enjoys "course correcting" and if so.. Jessica might not be long for this world. 

I will be disappointed if Garcia and Lucy start a thing. I don't get that vibe at this point and it seems so cliche'.  Heck they get together and Rittenhouse brings HIS family back from the dead. Lucy no more relationships with men who have families in the timeline .. mmmkkkkayyy?

If Rittenhouse really wants Lucy dead why not just erase her from time?   It kind of felt like a there was a reason for Lucy's mom to tell that adoption story. 

[legaleagle53]

6 hours ago, Manda317 said:

JFK was so cute lol. I was so sad when he started learning about what happened to his family. It is sad that he still ended up dying. It would be hard to prevent something like that by just going to a different though. The president visits are announced ahead of time. It may have been more effective to tell him to precautions against snipers.

I agree.  My advice to JFK wouldn't have been "Don't go to Dallas."  It would have been "Don't let Jackie wear that damn pink wool suit -- she won't be so warm in it in Texas that you have to ride around with the bullet-proof top of the convertible down!"

[UNOSEZ]

This is why I didn't want Lucy and wyatt... Now we've got some kind if quqdrangle tyoe situation that even tho everyone seems like they're good is bound to flare back up... And that just eats up screentime.. . And puts the rest of the characters (all the minorities btw)  off to the side

[Clanstarling]

10 hours ago, Gillian Rosh said:

IIt's just a show, but a chill went down my spine when that coin changed from Kennedy to Nixon.

Kind of felt that way when Nixon was president - right there toward the end when he was clearly getting unhinged.

9 hours ago, phalange said:

I love how they changed things up by bringing someone from the past into the present.

 

7 hours ago, possibilities said:

The girl who befriended "John" now knows time travel is real? I wonder if she shows up again. Seems like there'd be ripples from that discovery.

Now that there's someone in the past, on the "good" side, who knows about them, I wonder if they'll pop in on Kennedy (in later years of course). Since it's not like he still isn't a target for Rittenhouse. And the girl - maybe she's our next time traveler.

Nothing about the bunker seemed to say "commuting distance to Palo Alto," so I was pretty surprised to see them act like it was a trivial drive.

[Stuffy]

So was the party in Palo Alto?  I guess none of the kids were history majors at Stanford because they would've recognized Dr. Preston.

[SWLinPHX]

Yeah, before it even happened I was thinking someone will probably accidentally call him "President Kennedy" and then he will be clued in to all.  But her looking him up on her iPad and him seeing all his family's tragedies was moving.  Plus there was the usual "fish out of water" trope that can be fun to witness.

[Writing Wrongs]

I like the possibility of Flynn and Lucy together.

Jessica didn't bother me this episode. 

[Shanna Marie]

They may have kicked off the Jessica thing in a cliched soap opera way, but I'm impressed with how they're handling it. Jessica isn't being portrayed as some kind of bitch. She's actually pretty cool, and in this episode she was smart and contributed to the team. I wouldn't want to see her joining the time travel adventures, mostly because there would be no reason for her to go and her smarts seem to mostly be about her awareness of the present reality, but she's proving to be an asset for the home base. She and Lucy both acted like adults who were trying to do the right thing for someone they care about.

But did Jessica imply that Wyatt cheated on her? I wonder if that was her timeline's Wyatt in the aftermath of the fight that ended up with her death in his timeline or if it was something our Wyatt did. I guess guilt about that could have a lot to do with the way he put her on a pedestal after her death, but it really doesn't sound like our Wyatt. I'm getting the impression that she's surprised by this Wyatt, that he's a very different person from the one in her timeline, and thus her willingness to give him another chance, like she's getting the man she always hoped her husband could have been.

5 hours ago, BooBear said:

One thing I keep thinking - the theme of this year is that history enjoys "course correcting" and if so.. Jessica might not be long for this world. 

When the shooting started at the party, that was exactly what went through my mind, that when the smoke cleared and they saved JFK, they'd find Jessica's body. If she dies again, Wyatt would probably snap. So, season finale, probably?

I'm sure the limited amount of time travel in this episode had something to do with the budget -- as close as they could get within the series format to a "bottle" episode -- but it was interesting mixing things up and mixing up the teams. Seeing them dealing with the present with stuff like having the "duh" moment about cell phones and being able to contact each other or not thinking about social media was fun. They're so used to having to improvise in the past that they don't think about using modern technology. It's also amusing to imagine what Flynn would have been up to while he was stuck in the past.

[saber5055]

JFK's accent was so OTT, I had to look the actor up to make sure it wasn't Vinnie from Doogie Howser. JFK had a Boston accent, not a Brooklyn gangster one.

Jessica now all of a sudden being all bad ass and part of the team ... no thanks. She'll be joining the Flying Eyeball team next. Glad she dropped the line about Wyatt being a cheater and womanizer though. If it's true, it's a big warn to Lucy. If it's not true, then Jessica was passive-aggressively telling Lucy to step off from her man.

I got a kick out of the Rittenhouse grandpa saying to get rid of Kennedy, they needed a president they could control, like Nixon. Funniest line of the night for me.

I didn't see the coin turn into Nixon, but no big deal since Nixon was elected president. It would have been better if it had turned into someone who never was president, although none of us would have recognized the person so there's that.

I liked JFK coming into the present though. Even the gas stations are different now. The boy was tripping for sure.

[magicdog]

7 hours ago, The Wild Sow said:

Teddy would have been a "Baby Brother" at the time as he was born in 1932.

True, but it would have been hilarious if it were followed with a line like, “He can’t ride a tricycle yet! “ .   Either way it would have been a shocking revelation.  I did feel for him when he read about the other tragedies that befell the family over the years.  That would hurt anyone.

[sempervivum]

1 hour ago, saber5055 said:

I didn't see the coin turn into Nixon, but no big deal since Nixon was elected president.

The point of this was that there would never have been a JFK coin (in our reality) if he hadn't been a beloved personality who was also assassinated. Despite Lucy breathlessly telling him he was one of the greatest presidents, he isn't really regarded that way by historians, and it's unlikely he would have merited a coin under normal circumstances. The only 20th century president to get a coin was FDR.

The coin turning to Nixon would have to mean that in the alt past, Nixon would have been 1) a great or at least very popular president and 2) assassinated. Writers didn't think this through very well, but I do agree that it was rather chilling on screen.

On the romance front, I'd much rather see more of Rufus and Jiya than the other 2 (or 3!). 

[iMonrey]

For a show that's more icing than cake, I have to admit, this episode was a lot of fun. I got a big kick out of someone from the 1930s reacting to all the modern day technology. Although the idea that he fell back into his "smooth operator" with a girl persona so quickly was a little far-fetched. 

That said, I'm still banging my head against the wall because Rittenhouse's plans make no sense whatsoever. Let's say they accomplish their goal and kill a young Kennedy. They have no idea how history will change as a result of that despite their best guesses and whatever sleeper agents they have planted in time. It is in fact quite likely their own memories - or even their own existences - will be wiped out of existence and they won't even realize it! And as someone above quite rightly pointed out, the minute Kennedy's face on the coin was replaced with another, everyone involved should have forgotten who he was and what they were doing with him. I mean, in the very same episode, Denise says Kennedy was assassinated in Austin, like that had always been the case. She was unaware of any alternate version of that story. So, should the coin changing mean Kennedy never became president, in which case, Rittenhouse would never have gone back in time to kill him, in which case, Emma wouldn't be after him? Realistically (if such a term can be applied to a time travel show), the coin shouldn't have changed unless Emma actually succeeded in killing him. I think that was probably something that seemed compelling/exciting on paper but it didn't really work.

I suppose it's possible Nicholas Keynes would be immune to the timeline changes since he's from somewhere else - meaning if they change history he'll still remember the original version. But that could not be said for Emma or Lucy's mother - Keynes could suddenly find himself in a completely Rittenhouse-free world with no support and out on his ass. I just don't understand how these people think they can change history to their own advantage if they suddenly lose their ability to remember what they were doing in the first place as a result of changing that history! The only way it would work is if everyone in Rittenhouse went back in time every time they  changed something, so they could all remember it when they got back to the "new" history.

Quote

Despite Lucy breathlessly telling him he was one of the greatest presidents, he isn't really regarded that way by historians, 

Nor by a lot of Republicans. I bet that line pissed off a lot of right-wingers.

Edited April 16, 2018 by iMonrey

[saber5055]

15 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Nor by a lot of Republicans. I bet that line pissed off a lot of right-wingers.

It was just a nice thing to say to him whether true or not. The guy just learned pretty much his entire family was going to be killed, including him. He needed to hear something positive before going back to live it.

16 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Denise says Kennedy was assassinated in San Antonio,

Actually, she said Austin, not that it makes any difference where he was killed. I just anticipate you getting a lot of corrections here. LOL!

[iMonrey]

Thanks - fixed it!

[JackONeill]

I hate to say this but — Wyatt got his ass kicked by a woman!!!!

(No offense meant to Emma.)

[Dowel Jones]

Emma must have watched last week's episode of The Americans.  Sure glad Wyatt is along to provide the muscle for the travelers.  He even got knocked down by teenage JFK.

With the new JFK getting shot in Austin, and the Tower killings a couple of years later, Austin would not be the place to go anymore.  No more Austin City Limits.

It would have been cool if they had in fact chosen some unknown for the coin. Stuart Symington and Pat Brown were both in the running for the Democratic nomination.  An astounding Who? from the audience...

Other advice Rufus should have given to JFK:  Keep your dick in your pants.  Vietnam is a lost cause.  Get out now.  Watch out for J. Edgar Hoover.  And listen to your conscience, not those racist Congressmen from the South who wanted to maintain segregation.

[reggiejax]

On 4/9/2018 at 11:23 PM, legaleagle53 said:

But the problem is that Kennedy will still be going back to a time when he already exists.  How are they going to get around that?

By the logic of the time travel shown here, as long as they don't take him back to a time before he took his trip to 2018, he won't run into himself. In 1934, when JFK gets on the lifeboat, he does not continue to exist in 1934 at the same time he is in 2018. At least not per his perception as he travels along the timeline of his existence. Best comparison I can make is to think of it like regular travel. If you go to Hawaii for a week, you don't continue being in your own hometown at the same time. Nor does it prevent you from returning to your hometown at the end of your vacation. It's a crude comparison, I admit, but it is the best way I know to explain it. Or another simple way to explain it is that JFK always traveled through time. He himself found out about it at age 17, Lucy and company only realized it when it happened. 

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go to the ophthalmologist as I have gone cross-eyed. 

Quote

 

Quote

Despite Lucy breathlessly telling him he was one of the greatest presidents, he isn't really regarded that way by historians, 

Nor by a lot of Republicans. I bet that line pissed off a lot of right-wingers.

 

Historians give him a bit of a pass by saying his Presidency was too short to give a full assessment of it's quality. 

And some Republicans wouldn't be mad at that assessment, as there exists a subset that believes JFK was really just a conservative Republican in liberal Democrats clothing. And that gives them a chance to vicariously claim a great President as their own. I think that is simplistic and opportunistic as hell, but that is a discussion for another day. 

This was easily one of my favorite episodes of the show. It would have been anyway, as I am a tried and true Democrat (and Catholic), who naturally worships JFK, even though I was not alive when he was.  

But I admit some things were confounding, namely great Grandpa Rittenhouse's (or whatever his name is) plan. So he wanted to kill JFK in order to prevent a Presidency he thinks went against what Rittenhouse stood for. Maybe it did, but since he was already killed before he could truly make an impact, it seemed like a lot of work for nothing. 

Not to mention that it seems destiny was prepared to foil his plans. We got a Back to the Future style tipoff that maybe JFK would die at 17 when we saw the Kennedy Half Dollar turn into a Nixon Half Dollar. But, as a few above have mentioned, that can only mean one thing. Namely that Nixon being on the coin meant he won the 1960 election (per grandpa's plan), but it also meant he too met an early end. The coin was still dated 1964, and we do not put living people on our currency. So cue a WAH WAH sound effect for Rittenhouse.

Rittenhouse, more like Shittenhouse, amirite? 

Edited April 16, 2018 by reggiejax

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, reggiejax said:

But I admit some things were confounding, namely great Grandpa Rittenhouse's (or whatever his name is) plan. So he wanted to kill JFK in order to prevent a Presidency he thinks went against what Rittenhouse stood for. Maybe it did, but since he was already killed before he could truly make an impact, it seemed like a lot of work for nothing. 

Not to mention that it seems destiny was prepared to foil his plans. We got a Back to the Future style tipoff that maybe JFK would die at 17 when we saw the Kennedy Half Dollar turn into a Nixon Half Dollar. But, as a few above have mentioned, that can only mean one thing. Namely that Nixon being on the coin meant he won the 1960 election (per grandpa's plan), but it also meant he too met an early end. The coin was still dated 1964, and we do not put living people on our currency. So cue a WAH WAH sound effect for Rittenhouse.

Rittenhouse, more like Shittenhouse, amirite? 

Arguably some of the biggest pieces of legislation LBJ's administration pulled off - in particular the Civil Rights Act - can be attributed to JFK's assassination. Nothing rallies the masses like a martyr. So Rittenhouse's strategy makes sense, if we can ever believe any of it makes sense. 

I was alive, though young, when JFK was killed, not Catholic, but certainly in a Democratic household, so we loved him and mourned. My views on him are more nuanced now, I wouldn't call him the greatest president, he made some bonehead errors. But he died before he could really prove himself.

[dargosmydaddy]

Jessica annoyed me last week, but add me to those who enjoyed her and her relationship with Lucy this week.

I don't quite get Rufus's issues, or the obsession with fate being fate/ the world course-correcting itself. Clearly, over the past season and a half the team has made plenty of changes to history (including recently, when they saved all the condemned witches). So is it just that Jiya's visions will always come true regardless? I mean, I guess I can understand Rufus not wanting any more "sneak previews" from Jiya after what happened the first time, but his attitude in general seemed contradictory to his actual experiences.

And I didn't get the coin change at all. Nothing should have changed unless JFK actually died in 2018, which never happened. Why would just running in the direction of danger change anything?

[KaveDweller]

4 hours ago, magicdog said:

True, but it would have been hilarious if it were followed with a line like, “He can’t ride a tricycle yet! “ .   Either way it would have been a shocking revelation.  I did feel for him when he read about the other tragedies that befell the family over the years.  That would hurt anyone.

I also thought the actor did a good job with his reaction to seeing "world war II." Even if his brother didn't die he would have known how huge that was. But at least he didn't have to read about his son dying young too. That may have been too much.

If I was Rufus I would have wanted to know if Kennedy was still killed by Oswald, if Jack Ruby still killed Oswald, and if there were still a million conspiracies about the whole thing.

[Clanstarling]

18 minutes ago, dargosmydaddy said:

And I didn't get the coin change at all. Nothing should have changed unless JFK actually died in 2018, which never happened. Why would just running in the direction of danger change anything?

I know, right? Even Marty McFly's picture just started getting gradually dimmer...

[tennisgurl]

Forever and ever, my favorite thing about the show is its guest stars. Seriously, like, every person they cast just nails the historical figure they're playing, and is instantly likable and interesting. The guy playing young JFK this week was especially good. Its really hard to do a good JFK (They had a really crappy on over on The Crown not long ago) and I think he nailed it. Yeah, the accent wasn't exactly right, but the attitude was basically exactly what I imagined a teenage JFK would be like. 

I also enjoyed them staying in 2018 this time, and instead of having modern people dealing with the past, you had past people dealing with the modern world, and it was a good change up. I loved how they emphasized even a simple gas station is basically a science fiction novel to a person from the 30s, and everything from the doors to the cell phone (where can I find a pay phone? A Museum?) to the kids of various ethnicity's and genders going to school together would be mind blowing. And of course teenager JFK goes into charmer form as soon as he sees a cute girl. I liked Kayla, and I actually did buy her connection with young JFK. And he really sold his reaction to seeing what happens to him and his family. No matter what you think of JFK, thats a heartbreaking thing to find out. At least he didnt see that his son will die young too. Bad enough to see that he and most of his family will die tragically, and there are even more miserable conflicts in the world, but finding out about his son just seems too cruel. Its amazing that he still wanted to go back! I admit, I've always had a soft spot for JFK and a fascination with the Kennedy's (I`m too young to remember JFK, but my dad has always been a big fan) and while he made some boneheaded choices, and was a very flawed man, I do think its hard to imagine a more charismatic person who rallied people together the way JFK did, and I think if he hadn't died, he could have done a lot of good things. 

Jessica seems like a cool person, and I liked her interactions with Lucy and Wyatt. That being said, no way does this go well. I think the past will "correct" itself, and Jessica will still die. Or something like that, that seems to be decently consistent with how the show has done its time travel. Lucy and Wyatt will still end up together, the only question is how. 

Edited April 20, 2018 by tennisgurl

[Manda317]

4 hours ago, reggiejax said:

By the logic of the time travel shown here, as long as they don't take him back to a time before he took his trip to 2018, he won't run into himself. In 1934, when JFK gets on the lifeboat, he does not continue to exist in 1934 at the same time he is in 2018. At least not per his perception as he travels along the timeline of his existence. Best comparison I can make is to think of it like regular travel. If you go to Hawaii for a week, you don't continue being in your own hometown at the same time. Nor does it prevent you from returning to your hometown at the end of your vacation. It's a crude comparison, I admit, but it is the best way I know to explain it. Or another simple way to explain it is that JFK always traveled through time. He himself found out about it at age 17, Lucy and company only realized it when it happened. 

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go to the ophthalmologist as I have gone cross-eyed. 

Historians give him a bit of a pass by saying his Presidency was too short to give a full assessment of it's quality. 

And some Republicans wouldn't be mad at that assessment, as there exists a subset that believes JFK was really just a conservative Republican in liberal Democrats clothing. And that gives them a chance to vicariously claim a great President as their own. I think that is simplistic and opportunistic as hell, but that is a discussion for another day. 

This was easily one of my favorite episodes of the show. It would have been anyway, as I am a tried and true Democrat (and Catholic), who naturally worships JFK, even though I was not alive when he was.  

But I admit some things were confounding, namely great Grandpa Rittenhouse's (or whatever his name is) plan. So he wanted to kill JFK in order to prevent a Presidency he thinks went against what Rittenhouse stood for. Maybe it did, but since he was already killed before he could truly make an impact, it seemed like a lot of work for nothing. 

Not to mention that it seems destiny was prepared to foil his plans. We got a Back to the Future style tipoff that maybe JFK would die at 17 when we saw the Kennedy Half Dollar turn into a Nixon Half Dollar. But, as a few above have mentioned, that can only mean one thing. Namely that Nixon being on the coin meant he won the 1960 election (per grandpa's plan), but it also meant he too met an early end. The coin was still dated 1964, and we do not put living people on our currency. So cue a WAH WAH sound effect for Rittenhouse.

Rittenhouse, more like Shittenhouse, amirite? 

I think the reason they feel that killing JFK could of made a difference is JFK came out of nowhere to beat Nixon. He was a shock even to the Democratic Party, who I believe expected Johnson to take the nomination. There was all kinds of backhanded stuff going on during JFK's campaign. If JFK would not have been alive, Nixon would easily have won that election. It was one of the closest elections in history, and it is possible JFK did not even really win. There was fraud that may have flipped his home state, which would have elected Nixon if it had gone to him. The tricks that the Kennedys played during the election had a huge effect on Nixon, and it is possible they influenced his actions during Watergate. 

[saber5055]

Wyatt needs to pack some Bic razors when he time travels further back than 1980. And how about a comb and some Brylcreem. Lucy changes her hair but Wyatt stays 2018 cool, even during WWII. Wyatt, we'll still love you if you shave and fix your hair once in a while. You know, so you don't get tossed in jail as a vagrant when you go back to a year when men cared about their appearance.

[shapeshifter]

• Young JKF actor's accent: What was that? I even heard some Southern twangs mixed in. I don't usually complain about (or even notice) fake accents, but that made Dick Van Dyke's infamously poor Cockney accent in Mary Poppins seem downright authentic in comparison. Would it have killed the young actor to prepare by listening to a few JKF recordings?
   
• The coin changing:  Just because it no longer has Kennedy on it doesn't mean he was killed—although the threatening situation in the room sort of implied that. It could have just meant he lived long enough into his presidency to fall from popular grace (e.g. caught in bed with someone not his wife and photographed and leaked to the sleazier presses). Or maybe he decided not to run at all. But frickin' Nixon on the coin? Nixon and his sweaty face took way too long getting out of Vietnam, plus the spying and, worst of all, the rabid Antisemitism. 
   
• Jiya's premonitions:  She seems to only see things that cannot be significantly changed by any time traveler's shenanigans. And a lot of other changes are insignificant. The writers seem to be implying some things lie outside of the realm of chance, but are instead predestined—which implies Rittenhouse is either doomed to fail or can only be defeated at great cost.

Edited April 17, 2018 by shapeshifter