Fact vs. Fiction: The Podcast and the Real People

[biakbiak]

3 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I agree. Makes me wonder if they're going to change things so that Veronica is the one to kill John.

 

I doubt it. In the podcast they mentioned more than once that his threats/focus were centered on Jacqueline/Veronica and that him going after Terra wasn’t something any of them had really considered. 

Edited January 1, 2019 by biakbiak

[mythoughtis]

I stumbled on a transcript of part of the podcast today. This one explained how she gathered up the $30,000 cash to leave. She didn’t withdraw it from the bank that day as the tv episode showed - she siphoned off a couple thousand at a time and gave it to her elder daughter to hold. The one John thought she wasn’t speaking to.  She had, however, brought the cash home and John found it and confronted her. So she gathered up stuff .... including just one shoe( the name of the episode), and left. 

[JessePinkman]

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Debra try to reconcile/reconnect with John after the incident in the last episode? I recall her visiting him in a house he owned out of state and one of them sleeping on the floor?

[MerBearStare]

10 hours ago, JessePinkman said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Debra try to reconcile/reconnect with John after the incident in the last episode? I recall her visiting him in a house he owned out of state and one of them sleeping on the floor?

If I recall correctly, they don't get back together. But, her dumbass visits him at the house he's staying in in Nevada (that she owns) while she's trying to get a restraining order against him, so the judge didn't grant her the restraining order because the judge didn't think she really had anything to fear because she was willing to visit him at home.

[Barb23]

I wonder how things would have turned out between Debra & John if circumstances were different. For example: what if Debra didn't have children or if she did but they could have cared less who their mom dated no matter how bad he was or how bad her dating & marital records were. What if there was no Roni & just Tera? It was Ronni who was against John from the get go & got the ball rolling with the PI.  Even Tera became forgiving of John & agreed with her mother that sometimes people deserve a second chance like her friend had been given. 

I was also wondering how John kept his drug using from Debra except she's so flighty she probably missed most of the signs. He had to be high most of the time, if not all.  I would think since he was using the hard core injectable surgical drugs for years he would have some type of track marks or scars on his arms. I guess he just explained them away as war injuries.  I'm surprised she was smart enough to realize he was injecting between his toes even though he told her the bleeding was from a popped blister.  In her defense, he did have years of experience in hiding his abuse & probably had explanations at the ready in case she caught him in the act or found bottles laying around. 

[mythoughtis]

31 minutes ago, Barb23 said:

 

I wonder how things would have turned out between Debra & John if circumstances were different. For example: what if Debra didn't have children or if she did but they could have cared less who their mom dated no matter how bad he was or how bad her dating & marital records were. What if there was no Roni & just Tera? It was Ronni who was against John from the get go & got the ball rolling with the PI.  Even Tera became forgiving of John & agreed with her mother that sometimes people deserve a second chance like her friend had been given. 

 

I’m not sure where you are going with this? Are you thinking Debra and John would have had a happy marriage without her kids? Are you thinking Debra might be dead had her kids not been involved?  John had a long criminal history of stalking, violence,  drug abuse and drug theft, various con artist schemes. He wasn’t going to change.  He married Debra for her money.  

[Barb23]

12 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

I’m not sure where you are going with this? Are you thinking Debra and John would have had a happy marriage without her kids? Are you thinking Debra might be dead had her kids not been involved?  John had a long criminal history of stalking, violence,  drug abuse and drug theft, various con artist schemes. He wasn’t going to change.  He married Debra for her money.  

I know John was after Debra's money & he was never going to change his ways  even though at first Debra thought he could (part of his con).  I was just wondering how long it would have taken Debra to realize John was a money seeking druggie con man if she hadn't have had concerned family members that were onto him from the get go.  He might have kept up the wining & dining for years (on her dime no less)  before she caught on.  Or it could have ended very badly very quickly for her.  We all know how his personality changed so quickly.  Just speculations on my part.

[mythoughtis]

18 minutes ago, Barb23 said:

I know John was after Debra's money & he was never going to change his ways  even though at first Debra thought he could (part of his con).  I was just wondering how long it would have taken Debra to realize John was a money seeking druggie con man if she hadn't have had concerned family members that were onto him from the get go.  He might have kept up the wining & dining for years (on her dime no less)  before she caught on.  Or it could have ended very badly very quickly for her.  We all know how his personality changed so quickly.  Just speculations on my part.

Now I understand. I think you are right. She might possibly have been in the situation a long time.  In that scenario, the situation would probably still be unfolding.   Tania ( his first wife) was married to him for years before she figured out who he was.   I’m sure he only became more violent and abusive in the years between her and Debra.  

Edited January 3, 2019 by mythoughtis

[littlecatsfeet]

On 12/19/2018 at 3:11 PM, Barb23 said:

On 12/19/2018 at 8:30 AM, QuinnM said:

Thank you, thank you, thank you.  It seemed every link I found had been ‘video removed’.  I was assuming that Dateline is looking to rerun it during prime time due to the current interest in the story.

I saw commercial on the Oxygen channel that they will be playing the Dateline episode mid January (I think.) I'll have to pay better attention & get all the details. 

In looking at the Oxygen channel website, they will be running a Dirty John documentary in mid-January (the 14th,  I believe)  but I didn't see any mention of the Dateline episode. 

 https://www.oxygen.com/dirty-john-the-dirty-truth

[Starlight925]

12 hours ago, littlecatsfeet said:

In looking at the Oxygen channel website, they will be running a Dirty John documentary in mid-January (the 14th,  I believe)  but I didn't see any mention of the Dateline episode. 

 https://www.oxygen.com/dirty-john-the-dirty-truth

Thank you!  I hadn't seen these previews!  I'm going to set my DVR to record.  In looking at the preview videos, it looks great!

[Ninny]

Well, I've been a long time lurker and this TV show is the one that has made me register to comment!  

I seriously can't get over Debra, nor am I able to drum up any sympathy for her at all.  When John said something to the effect early in their relationship that he could take out her daughter (I forget which one he was speaking about) at 1000 yards, that's when I would have shown him the door.  When she said in the podcast that she just thought he was kidding and she giggled, I was thinking WTH.  That's not something you joke about - not about my kids anyway.  I can't imagine any decent mother that would have stood for that.  

I could barely get thru the podcast when Debra was speaking.  That giggling was more than I could take.  This is not a funny story you're telling lady.

[Barb23]

It was bad enough he said it in the first place but saying it in front of Toby was awful.  He played it all off as a joke but  he meant it.   

[lezlers]

On ‎1‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 8:30 AM, Barb23 said:

I know John was after Debra's money & he was never going to change his ways  even though at first Debra thought he could (part of his con).  I was just wondering how long it would have taken Debra to realize John was a money seeking druggie con man if she hadn't have had concerned family members that were onto him from the get go.  He might have kept up the wining & dining for years (on her dime no less)  before she caught on.  Or it could have ended very badly very quickly for her.  We all know how his personality changed so quickly.  Just speculations on my part.

All you need to do to answer that question is to look at his relationship with his ex-wife Tonia.

4 hours ago, Ninny said:

Well, I've been a long time lurker and this TV show is the one that has made me register to comment!  

I seriously can't get over Debra, nor am I able to drum up any sympathy for her at all.  When John said something to the effect early in their relationship that he could take out her daughter (I forget which one he was speaking about) at 1000 yards, that's when I would have shown him the door.  When she said in the podcast that she just thought he was kidding and she giggled, I was thinking WTH.  That's not something you joke about - not about my kids anyway.  I can't imagine any decent mother that would have stood for that.  

I could barely get thru the podcast when Debra was speaking.  That giggling was more than I could take.  This is not a funny story you're telling lady.

Debra is THE WORST.  She's as vapid as they come.

Edited January 5, 2019 by lezlers

[Quilt Fairy]

I would really like to know how Debra got her money.  She has a successful business, that's a fact, but she just doesn't seem very intelligent.  Is interior decorating such a lucrative field?  Or did she get it over the course of her 4 California-community-property divorces?

Edited January 5, 2019 by Quilt Fairy

[Starlight925]

7 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

I would really like to know how Debra got her money.  She has a successful business, that's a fact, but she just doesn't seem very intelligent.  Is interior decorating such a lucrative field?  Or did she get it over the course of her 4 California-community-property divorces?

 

She's a very intelligent businesswoman.  She parlayed her design business into very lucrative contracts with new home builders, where she designs and stages all the model homes.  So she doesn't just design for one person at a time, it's dozens of homes, with quick turnover, and dozens more, and so on.  

It's why she keeps that huge warehouse full of furnishings, so they can be used and re-used.  She's very sought-after by the builders.

She's a woman like so many women I know, myself included, where the only missing piece is the love of your life.  This great guy, who looks into your eyes and tells you how wonderful you are, brings you smoothies in bed, adjusts your shower temperature, well that can be intoxicating.  Look, I'm not excusing her for not leaving him the second she opened that drawer and found his papers with his trail of crime.  I'm just saying I know way too many women like her, women with PhD's even, who fall for this.

Edited January 5, 2019 by Sterling

[nikita]

If, like me, you are tired of uninformative TV listings of upcoming shows while waiting for a rerun of the Dateline ep, feel free to PM me for a link to a site that has the video. (If that doesn't break any forum rules.)

[athousandclowns]

1 hour ago, nikita said:

If, like me, you are tired of uninformative TV listings of upcoming shows while waiting for a rerun of the Dateline ep, feel free to PM me for a link to a site that has the video. (If that doesn't break any forum rules.)

I did a search both for title then the station it shows Dirty John at 8. &10 when I hit information it takes  me to Bravo. 

 I did see the oxygen site saying it’s 8 & 10 on 14th  so I’m taping the time slot. 

[VagueDisclaimer]

On 1/1/2019 at 2:06 PM, jenrising said:

Right now I'm just kind of shocked how little of Terra we're getting on the show, especially this close to the end. It just seems like a strange storytelling decision. 

But even with the podcast, John’s presence was the least threatening in Terra’s life. Outside of the initial interactions and misgivings, Terra wasn’t very present. It was more Jacquelyn and Shad that drew his animosity, so no one fully expected him to take his anger out on Terra, though obviously she was the easier, more vulnerable target. I think, narrative-wise, that’s not bad storytelling, as people won’t be expecting it as much if they’re not familiar with the real story. 

[renatae]

On 11/26/2018 at 1:58 PM, yourmomiseasy said:

I think there's more to Debra's family of origin that set her up for this than the podcast covered.  I need to see if I can stream the Dateline episode and possibly do more reading to see if it gets touched on.  For those that didn't listen to the podcast, Debra's older sister got married very quickly at a young age.  The guy ended up being controlling and maybe abusive (I don't remember if it was divulged).  The sister eventually met someone else and left the husband.  The husband put a gun up against the back of her neck and shot her in response to her leaving him.  He then shot himself, but lived.  Debra's mother was all like "I still love you," to him and testified in his defense at his trial and seemed very proud that she felt responsible for him getting such a light sentence.  The DA said he'd never seen a victim thrown under the bus in such a way by her own family before. 

It was also hinted at that Debra had been in previous abusive relationships.

For both daughters to fall into abusive relationships and the mother to defend her daughter's murderer in such a way, I think there's definitely something going on in that family.  There's multiple mentions of being Christian, seeing the best in people, giving second chances, forgiveness, etc. But come on.

I think the mother and Debra just lack discernment to an alarming degree. It's one thing to be Christian and forgiving, but it's quite another to not be able to recognize danger, especially when someone has shown you who they are.

Also, Debra's elevator doesn't seem to go all the way to the top. She's very vague.

[Quilt Fairy]

I noticed that Debra's mother has that same giggling, breathy way of speaking that Debra has.

[renatae]

On 1/5/2019 at 8:32 PM, athousandclowns said:

I did a search both for title then the station it shows Dirty John at 8. &10 when I hit information it takes  me to Bravo. 

 I did see the oxygen site saying it’s 8 & 10 on 14th  so I’m taping the time slot. 

Thank you! I thought I taped this last night, but it turned out to only be a partial "sneak preview." My listings search turned up nothing. Glad I found this just in time. Thanks!

[CruiseDiva]

26 minutes ago, renatae said:

Thank you! I thought I taped this last night, but it turned out to only be a partial "sneak preview." My listings search turned up nothing. Glad I found this just in time. Thanks!

While they said it was a sneak preview, it was two hours long on Oxygen. I started watching it at 11pm after the last episode on Bravo and it ended at 1am. 

[renatae]

On 12/19/2018 at 5:11 PM, Barb23 said:

I saw commercial on the Oxygen channel that they will be playing the Dateline episode mid January (I think.) I'll have to pay better attention & get all the details. 

I'm seeing Dateline episode "The Women and Dirty John" will be airing  Monday, Jan 21st at 4 a.m. EST on USA.

38 minutes ago, CruiseDiva said:

While they said it was a sneak preview, it was two hours long on Oxygen. I started watching it at 11pm after the last episode on Bravo and it ended at 1am. 

Interesting, because mine only recorded an hour. It taped right after the series episode last night.

[mythoughtis]

Just watched the Oxygen special. Jaqueline comes off much better than Ronnie came across on the mini series. Both seemed intelligent, but Jaquelines voice sounds much less strident and much less vocal fry. Terra, on the other hand... it’s amazing how much different siblings can be. Debra’s voice seems much more normal than the actress’s  portrayal of her, but I still think her elevator doesn’t go to the top. 

Her description of the way Meehan treats her via texts and calls  while he is in the hospital, how scared she is ... and yet she goes back to him. It’s even stupider from this description than the mini-series portrayed it. 

Its’ amazing how many women he conned and then terrorized. Yet he never ever seem to really be held accountable for it. Some time in prison, but quickly out  and onto  the next victim. That’s the really sad part.  

Edited January 15, 2019 by mythoughtis

[car54]

There is also a program on this on CNN--it is called Inside Evil with Chris Cuomo--and I think the Dirty John episode may be the first one listed--but it's pretty clear from the description.    It has a bit more of Terra--I came away with the impression that this really changed her and she came off as much stronger and determined than they portray her in this show.

[qtpye]

On 11/26/2018 at 8:36 PM, Sterling said:

As crazy as it is, I know exactly first hand how Debra was so lovestruck she didn't run any background checks.  There's this inherent need to see the good in people, plus the fact that he was causing her oxytocin to rise exponentially, which was an enormous combination of being dumbstruck.

I just got out of a Dirty John relationship last year.  I'm around Debra's age, also divorced, also successful.  The only reason I came to my senses was that my Dirty John wasn't only after my money and home, he was foolish enough to try to keep me on my toes vis a vis other women.  There were always hints of other women, but I never could quite pin anything down.  But it pissed me off to where I finally left him. .  My Dirty John liked to dangle these women in front of me, but had he kept them completely secret, he'd have moved into a house that I was about to buy for us, and I'd have been just like Debra.  I admit it, I'd have screwed up in a massive way.

  Reveal spoiler

 In Debra's case, John was smart enough to keep all the other women hidden away, and she only found out about all of it by searching his computer after his death.  She found over 200 women's numbers, all well hidden in his computer.  Since he had cameras installed all over the house, she didn't dare look at it while he was alive.

Bravo to you for having the strength to walk away.

On 12/1/2018 at 9:36 PM, Showthyme said:

Successful women think that their instincts are correct and that they know more about people than they really do. They often contribute it to their success.

Don't be hating on me. I am a successful woman myself. I have just seen a few Debras who are so gullible when it comes to a man who tells them what they want to hear.

I didn't see the Dateline episode or listen to the podcast. I feel sick just reading here and seeing the Bravo episode.

I have my own theories about why smart successful women fall for these type of conman and I do not think desperation is really the key factor.

I could be desperately hungry but like most people understand why arsenic is a bad thing to ingest.

My husband had a friend who was an extremely successful single doctor in his early forties.

He had a boatload of amazing accomplished women that would love to be with him and he would never give them the time of day.

He would always pick women in their early to mid twenties and often help them pay for things like pharmacy school. They would also move into his apartment and stay for a while rent free. He never married any of them and would move on to another in a couple of years.

One day i just told him, "You know this girls only want your money" because I could not understand why he would turn down accomplished women nearer to his own age (some who looked better than the 20 year old he seemed to prefer).

He told me he did not care...he had a hard job and just wanted to come home to be adored.

That's when it hit me that men who are Master of the Universe often want this in their spouse.

I can understand that women who are similarly successful also probably want this as well. The problem is that it is hard to find that type of adoration in males. Also, most women do not want a himbo or a gigolo. They want adoration but a man with some level of accomplishment of his own.

This is a very difficult combination to find and it gets tougher as you get older.

Jon conned Debra because it was more important for her to believe the lie than to open her eyes and see an obvious truth. My husband's friend was under no delusion that those younger women loved him. He knew what they wanted and they knew what he wanted.

Debra's delusions sustain her. Some small part of her is still alive in the fantasy and it can be a very dangerous and baffling  mindset.

That is why she can giggle about the courtship, when the man literally tried to kill her daughter.

 

[Starlight925]

1 hour ago, qtpye said:

Bravo to you for having the strength to walk away.

I have my own theories about why smart successful women fall for these type of conman and I do not think desperation is really the key factor.

I could be desperately hungry but like most people understand why arsenic is a bad thing to ingest.

My husband had a friend who was an extremely successful single doctor in his early forties.

He had a boatload of amazing accomplished women that would love to be with him and he would never give them the time of day.

He would always pick women in their early to mid twenties and often help them pay for things like pharmacy school. They would also move into his apartment and stay for a while rent free. He never married any of them and would move on to another in a couple of years.

One day i just told him, "You know this girls only want your money" because I could not understand why he would turn down accomplished women nearer to his own age (some who looked better than the 20 year old he seemed to prefer).

He told me he did not care...he had a hard job and just wanted to come home to be adored.

That's when it hit me that men who are Master of the Universe often want this in their spouse.

I can understand that women who are similarly successful also probably want this as well. The problem is that it is hard to find that type of adoration in males. Also, most women do not want a himbo or a gigolo. They want adoration but a man with some level of accomplishment of his own.

This is a very difficult combination to find and it gets tougher as you get older.

Jon conned Debra because it was more important for her to believe the lie than to open her eyes and see an obvious truth. My husband's friend was under no delusion that those younger women loved him. He knew what they wanted and they knew what he wanted.

Debra's delusions sustain her. Some small part of her is still alive in the fantasy and it can be a very dangerous and baffling  mindset.

That is why she can giggle about the courtship, when the man literally tried to kill her daughter.

 

Funny, you quoted my post, which I wrote in Nov. 2018, over a year ago.  Re-reading my own post, about my own Dirty John, brought back memories....not fond ones, of him or myself, but memories nonetheless.

Now that I've had over a year to process it, move on, get therapy (lots), and move into a happy life (solo), I've had a lot of time to think about just why, for me, I couldn't seem to leave him until I finally did.

For me, a lot of what you said is true, just like you said that your doctor friend said he needs from the women he dates.  That I needed to be adored.  I needed to be loved.  I needed to be told how beautiful I was.  

But understanding the underlying reasons why I (or Debra) needed those things so badly is the key and for me, this newfound understanding is what's allowed me to move forward without so much as a second thought to my own DJ.  In my case, if his name is mentioned (we are in similar social circles), I smile, nod, and move on.  Zero emotion.

For me, it was all the therapy, lots of self-help books, youtube channels, and message boards that got me to the heart of my own "why".  For me, it's rooted in childhood stuff, and I suspect it is for Debra as well.  There's something missing from there, that the child in me needed to fill, and no amount of bad behavior allowed me to move away from the overflowing outpouring of love and affection that was also present.  

I first listened to the podcast about 2 months after my own breakup, and I listened all in one driving trip.  I kept saying, O.M.G.!!!  I can totally relate!!!

I do hope that by now, Ms. Newell has sought the help she needs to never again allow this type of behavior, even in the smallest sense, to invade her life again.  I'm at such peace now, which I wish for her.

 

 

Edited January 2, 2020 by Sterling

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Broderick vs. Broderick – the divorce trial before the murder

Betty Broderick tells her version of marriage to Dan Broderick (1989)

1998 interview with Betty Broderick

* The San Diego Reader is an independent newspaper and does far better investigative journalism than the San Diego Union-Tribune, which is the mainstream paper. Because the Reader is a local paper, there may be some references to neighborhoods that don't mean much to you if you aren't from San Diego. Clairemont (where the Brodericks initially lived) was a middle class neighborhood and the Mount Soledad neighborhood of La Jolla where they later moved is known for having views of the ocean.

[geauxaway]

I think this is the correct place to put this.  I’ve seen the Lifetime Betty movies but it’s been a good 20 years.  Was Linda pregnant at the time of the murder?  

[AZChristian]

23 minutes ago, geauxaway said:

I think this is the correct place to put this.  I’ve seen the Lifetime Betty movies but it’s been a good 20 years.  Was Linda pregnant at the time of the murder?  

One source I read said no.  I'm pretty sure if she had been, the info would have been out there from the beginning.

[geauxaway]

1 minute ago, AZChristian said:

One source I read said no.  I'm pretty sure if she had been, the info would have been out there from the beginning.

That’s what I thought, too.  For some reason I thought maybe she was.  But again, it was along time ago, so I could very well be mixing it up with any number of true crime stories.  
 

Thanks!

[lovesnark]

@chick binewski commented in the episode thread about Betty's daughter Kim seeming to be the only one who realized and said that Betty needed professional help. When she rammed her Suburban into Dan's door and was put on a 72 hour hold, seeing a mental health professional was recommended. Every one of the attorneys she had tried to get her to get professional help. Her friends told her she needed help. The court ordered psychiatrists/psychologists all told her she needed intensive help and she was uncooperative and refused to participate when she was seeing them. One of the court mandated psychiatrists she saw warned Dan TWICE (she was able to use what's called a Tarasoff warning to break the doctor patient confidentiality rule) because she believed Dan's life was in danger due to what Betty said to her. Dan didn't think she'd follow through on her threats to kill him and told friends and colleagues he didn't need an alarm system or a guard dog or a gun when they begged him to protect himself.

Betty was a perfect example of 'you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink'. She went to a therapist when she was ordered to, but refused to admit she was there because she needed help. She was there because Dan and Linda made her do bad things. 30 years later, she still believes this.

[geauxaway]

1 hour ago, lovesnark said:

@chick binewski commented in the episode thread about Betty's daughter Kim seeming to be the only one who realized and said that Betty needed professional help. When she rammed her Suburban into Dan's door and was put on a 72 hour hold, seeing a mental health professional was recommended. Every one of the attorneys she had tried to get her to get professional help. Her friends told her she needed help. The court ordered psychiatrists/psychologists all told her she needed intensive help and she was uncooperative and refused to participate when she was seeing them. One of the court mandated psychiatrists she saw warned Dan TWICE (she was able to use what's called a Tarasoff warning to break the doctor patient confidentiality rule) because she believed Dan's life was in danger due to what Betty said to her. Dan didn't think she'd follow through on her threats to kill him and told friends and colleagues he didn't need an alarm system or a guard dog or a gun when they begged him to protect himself.

Betty was a perfect example of 'you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink'. She went to a therapist when she was ordered to, but refused to admit she was there because she needed help. She was there because Dan and Linda made her do bad things. 30 years later, she still believes this.

I’d have to believe she has to go thru a psych eval at parole reviews, too.  Not to mention she had all the money and the means for top shelf help.   
 

To be honest, for some reason I thought Betty had cancer.  Maybe that was some other elderly real life famous female inmate.  When this all started I did have to look up and see if she was still alive.  I really did think she had died of cancer or something.

[lovesnark]

1 hour ago, geauxaway said:

I’d have to believe she has to go thru a psych eval at parole reviews, too.  Not to mention she had all the money and the means for top shelf help.   
 

To be honest, for some reason I thought Betty had cancer.  Maybe that was some other elderly real life famous female inmate.  When this all started I did have to look up and see if she was still alive.  I really did think she had died of cancer or something.

 Susan Atkins, one of Manson's women died of cancer in prison. Maybe that's who you were thinking of? She died in 2009 at the age of 61.

[poeticlicensed]

10 hours ago, geauxaway said:

o be honest, for some reason I thought Betty had cancer.  Maybe that was some other elderly real life famous female inmate.  When this all started I did have to look up and see if she was still alive.  I really did think she had died of cancer or something.

Apparently Betty does have health issues. Her age, combined with being incarcerated for nearly 30 years has probably done a number on her health. Lots of research that shows that prisons are unhealthy, from the poor nutrition, to lack of activity, being in close proximity with others, and lots of other factors. People who are incarcerated, even for short periods of time, come out looking like they have aged rapidly. As for Betty, her lawyer, who BTW is the same lawyer who defended her at trial (can you imagine, him staying with her for 3 decades?) is trying to get her released because there is Covid in her prison and between her age and her health issues, places her at higher risk. 

[Persnickety1]

Betty won't be eligible for another parole hearing until she's in her 80s.  

https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/infamous-la-jolla-killer-betty-broderick-denied-parole/509-0882e571-ec82-4af2-8630-188977a7df73

"Elizabeth Broderick remains an unreasonable risk of danger to society," District Attorney Bonnie Dumanis said before the hearing at the California Institution for Women.

"She still has not developed appropriate insight or remorse for these gruesome murders, which she committed with a callous disregard for human suffering." 

(Snipped from linked article)

[lovesnark]

This is from her parole hearing in 2011. There is a Part 2 that plays after this one. It's interesting to hear him tell her that she's still stuck in 1990 and hasn't changed or evolved at all. 

She also changes her story about the shootings. In court, she said she couldn't remember anything, that she just had 'an impression' of it being dark, then BOOM, the gun went off and she ran. In this she says Linda lunged at her and she fired the gun. Then says she didn't think Dan was injured because he was talking to her and she ran because she thought Dan was chasing her and was going to call the cops.

[divsc]

On 6/18/2020 at 1:25 PM, geauxaway said:

I think this is the correct place to put this.  I’ve seen the Lifetime Betty movies but it’s been a good 20 years.  Was Linda pregnant at the time of the murder?  

In Bella Stumbo's book, she describes the bedroom setting at the time of the murders and writes, "In the bathroom was the Big O calendar. Ovulation time. They were going to have a new family. He was trying hard to impregnate her. She was trying even harder to get him to."

[Razzberry]

We know Betty has been professionally diagnosed with both of these disorders, and I gotta say they seem bang-on. While I can empathize with her situation, I don't believe Dan was responsible for her personality disorders, only aggravating them. Having a medical degree, he should have known better. Do the descriptions fit him as well?   

From Psychology Today

Narcissistic Personality Disorder
The hallmarks of narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) are grandiosity, a lack of empathy for other people, and a need for admiration. People with this condition are frequently described as arrogant, self-centered, manipulative, and demanding. They may also have grandiose fantasies and may be convinced that they deserve special treatment. These characteristics typically begin in early adulthood and must be consistently evident in multiple contexts, such as at work and in relationships.

People with NPD often try to associate with other people they believe are unique or gifted in some way, which can enhance their own self-esteem. They tend to seek excessive admiration and attention and have difficulty tolerating criticism or defeat.

Symptoms
Individuals with narcissistic personality disorder, according to the DSM-5, exhibit five or more of the following, which are present by early adulthood and across contexts:

• A grandiose sense of self-importance
• Preoccupation with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
• Belief that one is special and can only be understood by or associate with special people or institutions
• A need for excessive admiration
• A sense of entitlement (to special treatment)
• Exploitation of others
• A lack of empathy
• Envy of others or the belief that one is the object of envy
• Arrogant, haughty behavior or attitudes

 

Histrionic Personality Disorder

People with this disorder are usually able to function at a high level and can do well in social and occupational environments. They may seek treatment for depression when their romantic relationships end. They often fail to see their own situation realistically, instead tending to overdramatize and exaggerate. Instead of taking responsibility for failure or disappointment, those with the disorder typically cast blame on others.

Symptoms
According to the DSM-5, for a diagnosis of histrionic personality disorder to be given, five or more of the following symptoms must be present:

• Self-centeredness, feeling uncomfortable when not the center of attention
• Constantly seeking reassurance or approval
• Inappropriately seductive appearance or behavior
• Rapidly shifting emotional states that appear shallow to others
• Overly concerned with physical appearance, and using physical appearance to draw attention to self
• Opinions are easily influenced by other people, but difficult to back up with details
• Excessive dramatics with exaggerated displays of emotion
• Tendency to believe that relationships are more intimate than they actually are
• Is highly suggestible (easily influenced by others)

[Mrs. Hanson]

1 hour ago, AZChristian said:

Interesting . . . but I couldn't find anything to confirm that online.

I tried to remember last night:  Death Hag, Find a Death....I was spending too many brain cells on it, actually.  I am sure the Kolkena family wants it all to go away but never can, so they are not talking, nor should they!!

I do remember when she was up for parole in January 2010 - she went on and ON about how Dan and Linda made her do this, they were to blame, etc.  I am sure the parole board (who I assume have heard A LOT) were like......"really?"

1 hour ago, Goodtimes said:

I am reading "The 12th of Never" while watching the show. It's a great book on the case, so much information that's not being shown. The book states that Betty asked for a $1 million lump sum along with the $25k a month for 10 years but was so surprising to me was she didn't ask for custody of her kids. She wanted to "travel and heal herself" before spending extended time with them. Also, while this was in process, Betty left for a weekend trip to Hawaii without telling anyone. Everyone showed up for court but Betty - unfortunately, this was common for her.

I need to read that book!  I am surprised that she did not ask for custody.  The thing that gets me is Betty had this great life, lots of money and, I am sorry to report, her hubby had a wandering eye.  Welcome to the club.  She was offered A LOT of money and presumably, never would have to work if she did not choose to, yet she still blew it.  If my ex hubby offered me that much in alimony, I would be making him brownies every month and delivering them!

As for her parents saying, no, we are done:  Can you imagine being around her?  It would be EXHAUSTING.  And let's face it, parents know their kids.  They knew she needed to reel it in as well.

I do NOT get how the jury did not find her guily of first degree.  Second degree (as I understand it) means no intent.  She harrassed them, threatened them and drove over, broke in WITH A GUN and shot them!  How does that NOT show intent?

[Razzberry]

13 minutes ago, Mrs. Hanson said:

She harrassed them, threatened them and drove over, broke in WITH A GUN and shot them!  How does that NOT show intent?

And not just any gun, but a snub-nosed 38 special which are not known for "just going off" by themselves.  Same gun Jack Ruby used on Lee Harvey, one and done.  Here's an ammo chart for comparison.

 

[Mrs. Hanson]

1 minute ago, Razzberry said:

And not just any gun, but a snub-nosed 38 special which are not known for "just going off" by themselves.  Same gun Jack Ruby used on Lee Harvey, one and done.  Here's an ammo chart for comparison.

 

My hubby is a gun enthusiast and when he heard that, he just went "Wow."  

[poeticlicensed]

27 minutes ago, Razzberry said:

And not just any gun, but a snub-nosed 38 special which are not known for "just going off" by themselves.

And I guess the phone ripped itself out of wall and out the door all by itself also? The gun went off by itself is pure BS

[lovesnark]

1 hour ago, Mrs. Hanson said:

I tried to remember last night:  Death Hag, Find a Death....I was spending too many brain cells on it, actually.  I am sure the Kolkena family wants it all to go away but never can, so they are not talking, nor should they!!

I do remember when she was up for parole in January 2010 - she went on and ON about how Dan and Linda made her do this, they were to blame, etc.  I am sure the parole board (who I assume have heard A LOT) were like......"really?"

I need to read that book!  I am surprised that she did not ask for custody.  The thing that gets me is Betty had this great life, lots of money and, I am sorry to report, her hubby had a wandering eye.  Welcome to the club.  She was offered A LOT of money and presumably, never would have to work if she did not choose to, yet she still blew it.  If my ex hubby offered me that much in alimony, I would be making him brownies every month and delivering them!

As for her parents saying, no, we are done:  Can you imagine being around her?  It would be EXHAUSTING.  And let's face it, parents know their kids.  They knew she needed to reel it in as well.

I do NOT get how the jury did not find her guily of first degree.  Second degree (as I understand it) means no intent.  She harrassed them, threatened them and drove over, broke in WITH A GUN and shot them!  How does that NOT show intent?

First degree has to show premeditation. The DA didn't think they would be able to convince a jury she premeditated the murders after her testimony, so they went with murder 2. Murder 1 was never an option for the jury. It was murder 2 or manslaughter.

I posted a link to her parole hearing in 2011 in the Fact vs Fiction thread. She completely changes the story about the murders from what she testified to and she still takes no responsibility. She's had one more hearing in 2017 and said pretty much the same thing. Nothing was her fault, Dan and Linda made her do bad things. She's not eligible for another parole hearing until 2032.

[Mrs. Hanson]

26 minutes ago, lovesnark said:

First degree has to show premeditation. The DA didn't think they would be able to convince a jury she premeditated the murders after her testimony, so they went with murder 2. Murder 1 was never an option for the jury. It was murder 2 or manslaughter.

I posted a link to her parole hearing in 2011 in the Fact vs Fiction thread. She completely changes the story about the murders from what she testified to and she still takes no responsibility. She's had one more hearing in 2017 and said pretty much the same thing. Nothing was her fault, Dan and Linda made her do bad things. She's not eligible for another parole hearing until 2032.

Thank you for that clarification on it being between manslaughter and Murder 2.  Parole in 2032?  She will be 84 or so? Apparently her second daughter Lee is all for Betty living with her.  I do not think Betty would hurt anyone else, she is no Night Stalker nor Ted Bundy, but she does need to pay for her crimes!  She shot two defensless people!  Five times and killed them.

[poeticlicensed]

28 minutes ago, lovesnark said:

First degree has to show premeditation. The DA didn't think they would be able to convince a jury she premeditated the murders after her testimony, so they went with murder 2. Murder 1 was never an option for the jury. It was murder 2 or manslaughter.

Depending on how she was charged, a first degree charge with no lesser charges could have gotten her off if they couldn't prove premeditation.  I don't think the DA wanted to take that chance. 

That's what happened in the Casey Anthony case, the DA overcharged, first degree murder. There was no option for the jury to find her guilty of second degree or manslaughter. Of course everyone knew she did it, but if they had given the jury some options, they may have gotten a conviction.

I've been on a jury (not murder, but attempted murder) and it's really tough to find someone guilty, even if it's obvious they did it. The guy in my case came to his exe's house at dawn with a crowbar, nunchucks, zip ties, a tarp, lighter fluid and lighter, sprayed her with lighter fluid and tried to light her on fire. Even though it was obvious that he premeditated, and he didn't even put on a defense,  there were 2 people on my jury (men!)  that wanted to convict on a lesser degree. They started supposing all kinds of what ifs in the jury room. What if she called him and invited him over, what if she was a tease? I mean seriously. The other women and I just kept saying stick to the evidence people!

[lovesnark]

1 minute ago, poeticlicensed said:

Depending on how she was charged, a first degree charge with no lesser charges could have gotten her off if they couldn't prove premeditation.  I don't think the DA wanted to take that chance. 

That's what happened in the Casey Anthony case, the DA overcharged, first degree murder. There was no option for the jury to find her guilty of second degree or manslaughter. Of course everyone knew she did it, but if they had given the jury some options, they may have gotten a conviction.

I've been on a jury (not murder, but attempted murder) and it's really tough to find someone guilty, even if it's obvious they did it. The guy in my case came to his exe's house at dawn with a crowbar, nunchucks, zip ties, a tarp, lighter fluid and lighter, sprayed her with lighter fluid and tried to light her on fire. Even though it was obvious that he premeditated, and he didn't even put on a defense,  there were 2 people on my jury (men!)  that wanted to convict on a lesser degree. They started supposing all kinds of what ifs in the jury room. What if she called him and invited him over, what if she was a tease? I mean seriously. The other women and I just kept saying stick to the evidence people!

Casey Anthony was exactly what I was thinking of. The DA in Betty's case knew she'd have a much better shot at a conviction by going for the lesser charge or Murder 2 or Manslaughter. They overcharged Casey Anthony and it backfired horribly.

[Mrs. Hanson]

29 minutes ago, poeticlicensed said:

I've been on a jury (not murder, but attempted murder) and it's really tough to find someone guilty, even if it's obvious they did it. The guy in my case came to his exe's house at dawn with a crowbar, nunchucks, zip ties, a tarp, lighter fluid and lighter, sprayed her with lighter fluid and tried to light her on fire. Even though it was obvious that he premeditated, and he didn't even put on a defense,  there were 2 people on my jury (men!)  that wanted to convict on a lesser degree. They started supposing all kinds of what ifs in the jury room. What if she called him and invited him over, what if she was a tease? I mean seriously. The other women and I just kept saying stick to the evidence people!

Not to be off topic but that is classic victim shaming/blaming right there.

[DanaK]

On 6/24/2020 at 5:57 PM, lovesnark said:

This is from her parole hearing in 2011. There is a Part 2 that plays after this one. It's interesting to hear him tell her that she's still stuck in 1990 and hasn't changed or evolved at all. 

She also changes her story about the shootings. In court, she said she couldn't remember anything, that she just had 'an impression' of it being dark, then BOOM, the gun went off and she ran. In this she says Linda lunged at her and she fired the gun. Then says she didn't think Dan was injured because he was talking to her and she ran because she thought Dan was chasing her and was going to call the cops.

Damn, all that "not my fault" whining and crying from 9 years ago reminded me of her similar antics nearly 30 years ago

[Mrs. Hanson]

On 6/24/2020 at 4:57 PM, lovesnark said:

She also changes her story about the shootings. In court, she said she couldn't remember anything, that she just had 'an impression' of it being dark, then BOOM, the gun went off and she ran. In this she says Linda lunged at her and she fired the gun. Then says she didn't think Dan was injured because he was talking to her and she ran because she thought Dan was chasing her and was going to call the cops.

One would think with all that time on her hands she could get the story straight,

I read a story a while back (I am sorry I can't remember the source) where someone was interviewing Betty and the big takeaway was: Every other woman seemed to be bitter or mad but Betty was as happy a little chickadee, happily talking to others and just as happy as can be!  Either she is delusional or really likes prison life.  I also read that she wants visits on her birthday and Mother's Day but not Christmas or Easter or big events, she does not want the kid's memories of Christmas being in a jail.

I truly hope, for her sake, that when she goes again at age 84 she shows some remorse.  "Well I had 40 years to mull this over....turns out I was wrong!  I never should haev shot Dan and Linda!!"