S28.E12: Straw That Broke the Camel's Back

[Never Again]

Put me down as another one who sees merit in Kass. I can't say that I like her, but I respect her in several ways. Although I'm still annoyed with her for flipping in the beginning, and I was put off when she gave trish the finger tonight, she certainly is not afraid to speak her mind. She also is the only one not afraid to stand up to tony to his face. She makes moves that she thinks benefit her and is not subject to the herd mentality. She calls people out right to their faces and takes ownership of the things that she says. She's definitely charmless and disagreeable, but she's smart and she's fearless. That said, I'm rooting with all my might for a spencer win. That guy deserves it 100%. I've been wanting them to go back to a final 2 forever, but not this time. Spencer has to win immunity again to get to final 3, but final 2 would mean he has to win it twice more. That's a lot to ask for since he just won it already several times. If spencer gets Into the final I can't see how he can lose. But can he get there?

[dolphincorn]

Well, since this is the night to confess unpopular opinions, I think Tony is looking pretty hot now that he's slimmed down.

[bluebonnet]

This season has been pretty amazing.  I don't think I've ever been more entertained by an hour of Survivor than I was tonight.  The point of the show is to entertain me and these contestants delivered.  The producers struck gold with this cast as it's all been this perfect blended storm of awesome wonderful perfection.  Even at the beginning, when it's sort of slow because there are so many players and half of them remain nameless, I was still enjoying it.  I can't say there is one player since the merge that I actually hate.  I mean, sure, I might find several (or most) of them to be sort of disagreeable humans, at least as they have been edited for a game, but these players have made my Wednesday evenings such a joy.  Survivor had become something that I had playing in the background while I did my mid-week house cleaning.  Now my floors are forced to suffer the indignity of a full weeks worth of dust and germs for how juicy yummy this show has been.  I just can't believe how amazing the casting was for this season because I AM ENTERTAINED!

Edited May 15, 2014 by SystemRemote

[kikismom]

Yeah, it helps when they cast people who like and understand the game, instead of just 20 year olds who once won a wet t-shirt contest on spring break.

[Eggman]

Obviously, Spencer beats Tony at final tribal, but he couldn't vote for Spencer tonight.  I think Tony has a better chance against Woo or Kass than he does against Trish, and so getting rid of Trish was probably his best bet.  I was just surprised.

 

Indeed.  At first I thought, Tony, you idiot.  But no, Tony was going to blindside Woo (he said so in a talking head), and it's very possible he was also planning to blindside Trish.  He wants people at FTC he can make an argument against. 

 

Tony may not have explicitly presented his "this is good to F4" lie about the super-idol, and it's possible that when he does someone who is left will know better.  Then, if he doesn't win IC, he's in trouble, regardless.  Spencer has been doing a great job of banging the "Tony is gonna win this game" drum every chance he's gotten. 

If Tony had given immunity to Trish, who would they have voted for?

Assuming it was done before FTC they might have targeted Tony and then had to scramble when he pulled out the super-idol, but that goes against his plan to try to ride the super-idol all the way to F3.  

 

I'm coming around to the opinion that someone else floated that all this drama between Tony and Kass is manufactured by those two in order to hide their real strategic goal of taking each other to the end. 

 

I'm not here because everyone loves me. I'm here in *spite* of everything, because I played the game well. Isn't that worth a vote to win?"

  

Good luck with that. The jury does not vote for people they hate, unless there's someone that is hated even more.  Tony doesn't qualify in that regard.

[Turtle]

This has definitely been a great season.  And tonight was possibly the best episode of a season with many really good episodes.  Which makes it all the more awful that the stupid TP idol is in play (yeah, I'm not letting my anger about this go...).  

 

I think my biggest problem with Kass is that I don't think she has been playing any real strategy, or at least not a well thought-out one.  I think she's been played by others, like when Trish convinced her to vote for Sara.  Kass made that switch because she was mad that Sara was gloating that she (Sara) had all the power, and Kass gave her a way to get payback on Sara.  That's not strategy, that's emotional.  Imagine if Kass hadn't switched at that point - we might really be looking at a final three of Brains!  But Kass got mad, and Trish played to her ego.  

 

I also think that her idea of taking Tony as a goat is seriously misguided.  She seems to be pretty disliked by the jury, and even though Tony blindsided a bunch of people, I don't think she stands a chance against him at tribal.  He's not Russell; people don't revile Tony like they did Russell, and it's possible that this group of (mostly) fans/ strategists will respect Tony's gameplay.  At tribal this episode, she seemed totally clueless about how poorly she was coming off to the jury, and how well Trish was coming off.  Although, at this point, I really don't think she can win against anyone that is left, so I guess that's a moot point.  

 

Sara sure won't vote for her.  I doubt Morgan will; Tasha sure won't, considering that if Kass hadn't switched Tasha and Spencer (along with Kass) could have made final 3; and I'm sure Trish won't, since Kass seemingly replaced Trish in what Trish thought would be the final 3.  LJ and Jeremiah?  No idea what they'll do, although I suspect LJ will vote along with Morgan, and based on their expressions at tribal, they were pretty shocked at Kass' personal attack on Trish.  Speaking of, the "skeletor" and "psychobitch" comments were way out of line, and, to me, yet further evidence that Kass is playing an emotional game, not a strategic one.  

 

Obviously, opinions vary widely on this one.  I just don't see any real strategy in Kass' game.  And I don't see any real intelligence in her.  To me, she does seem like the trouble-maker, perpetual victim that Trish called her out as.  And, as I've said way too many times, I don't think she is even half as smart as she thinks she is.

 

And I've officially spent way too much time and brain power on all of this!

 

I'm not here because everyone loves me. I'm here in *spite* of everything, because I played the game well. Isn't that worth a vote to win?"
 
Good luck with that. The jury does not vote for people they hate, unless there's someone that is hated even more.  Tony doesn't qualify in that regard.

 

I can't figure out sub-quotes, but to the second poster - Exactly!  You need a Russell Hantz at your side to make that argument work, and Tony is not that.  Kass is probably the most disliked person left in the game, and she hasn't done enough in the game to make the jury overlook their dislike of her.  Especially with Sara and her new BFF Morgan at Ponderosa.  

[KnitsWithRaceCars]

That was freakin' awesome!

 

Someone needs to give Trish a Snickers bar...  "Because you just aren't you when you're hungry."

 

Tony is either such a spaz, so stupid, or both that he didn't even pronounce "llama" correctly.  He was pronouncing it with a short "a" like in "lamb" instead of like "ah."  Reminds me of this one time when my idiot, jerk father was trying to convince me that my brother-in-law was "comma-tose" when going to work early in the morning, instead of correctly pronouncing "comatose."

 

I nominate the llama as a new Survivor archetype!

 

So Woo showed that he does actually have something besides air between his ears.  Though I agree that his flip could have been influenced by Tony.  At least he did appear to be seeing through some of Tony's crap.  I cracked up at his "dysfunctional family/foreign exchange student" comment.

 

I'm pretty tolerant, but I do call bull on Probie not saying that it was the last time an HII could be used.  If he did say it, then I think the editors erred in not showing it.

 

Am I the only one who wished someone would've given Probie a bear hug when they were all muddy after the RC?

 

#ChaosKass?  Try #CluelessKass!

 

Tony, who died and made you the only one who can talk about others?

 

Spencer for the win!!!  I'd like to believe that they wouldn't have shown him jumping/falling into the water if it meant he was out of the challenge.  Hoping that it is something like the challenge in Micronesia (? I think it was that season.) where they had to stand on poles and retrieve a key by means of buckets of water raising it, then jump in to swim to the next part of the challenge.  *Fingers crossed*

[Subrookie]

This season has had some pretty spectacular episodes. It's unfortunate that TPTB felt the need to have this special idol which effectively pissed me off more than it added to the game. The ones i havent liked were the previous several episodes with Tony being smug that he had not only it but the HII as well. Peaches shouldn't let him ruin the game by pretending it still works past 4. No one should ever have this much power in the game.

Tonight was fun. One of the more entertaining TC I can remember. Tony came out looking like a tool not using his HII to save his most loyal alliance member. Watching Trish was making me ill. I'm glad she's out and can eat again.

Spencer is the only one I want to win now. We've heard Woo talk about a big move and he finally made one but he's been coat tailing the whole game. Kass has actually played, I don't want her to win but she makes great tv. Tony can go to hell.

[SourK]

The one thing I admire about Kass has nothing to do with her gameplay at all, and it's just that she's not intimidated by things like Tony yelling at her. She's basically impossible to bully, and I like that.

 

As far as the game goes, though, I agree that she's basically an emotional player. I'm not sure she even realizes it, but her decisions are ruled by trying to feel one-up to everyone else rather than trying to win the game. She's done a good job of voting out who she wants to vote out, but a really poor job of setting herself up with the jury, because she's either not thinking that far ahead, or she's assuming that she can win them over with a logical argument, which usually doesn't work.

 

As far as Trish's rant about Kass playing the victim, I don't see that. I think what she's describing is that Kass likes to push people's buttons and then accuses them of behaving poorly when they respond. That's not really playing the victim so much as it's playing a stupid power game to prove that you can make someone flip out.

 

In other news, I'm really happy for Spencer that he won immunity. If he can somehow get himself into the finals, he deserves to win the whole thing. I laughed a bit when Jeff said, "The question is, does Tony know how to do a slide puzzle?" in a tone of voice that clearly meant "The answer is, Tony does not."

 

Speaking of Tony, he's gone to that place where he gets mad at anyone else who tries to play the game, and that's my least favourite place for a player to be.

[Joystickenvy]

At first I was all proud of Woo for doing a good job at convincing Tony at tribal that he was voting Kass, so Tony wouldn't play his HII for Trish and annoyed at Tony for making the stupid move of voting out the super goat just because she pissed him off, but after seeing Tony also voted Trish, I think the vote got changed or was always Trish and the editing monkeys just made it look like tony was going after Kass.

Trish lost some points both with her anti-Kass tirade and her vote. I guess she thought having unreliable Tony who has voted a different person than he told her twice as her only ally was more valuable than taking people she could actually maybe beat to the final. Trish made a couple of good moves that kept her alliance together, but overall her gameplay wasn't great.

At this point, I think it's a crazy move for anyone left to vote out Kass. This jury is as bitter as they come. I don't care if Kass is freakin Daniel Webster talking to the jury....she is not getting any votes.

Flipping off Trish on the way out makes me feel like the viritrol directed at Kass in social media and interviews may be more justified than I initially thought. That was a very low class, petty and immature thing to do. She is starting to remind me of that woman from season 1 that was so incredibly bitter.

Edited May 15, 2014 by Joystickenvy

[RescueMom]

Tony did/said two things this episode that impressed me.  First, as much as I hate the super special idol, it was smart of him to try to use it to help him out at F4.  I honestly don't know that I would have thought of using it that way, and it's a really good idea.  It may not work, but it can't hurt.

 

The other thing that impressed me was when he said in an interview (paraphrasing): "Kass may be a great person in real life, but she's not a great person in Survivor."  So many people talk about what a horrible person someone obviously is at the core because of how they play the game, like Jane did with Marty in Nicaragua (it was something like how he is such a terrible person that she'd never let her kids associate with his.) 

 

He definitely lost his cool tonight, he needs to stop talking so damn much, and his paranoid dial is all the way up to 11 - but he is still playing hard (not always well, but always hard) and seems to never forget that it's a game. 

 

When he picked Trish for the reward challenge, I wish he would have just said that while they are all hungry, she's clearly starving and badly needs the food.  I suspect that is the actual reason he picked her.  

[ShadowDenizen]

So Tony didn't play his SuperTylerPerryIdol.  Because of this decision,he's going to lose.  Ass thinks he's got the game in the palm of his hand without the idol.  Loved Spencer's game tonight, Tasha's jury reaction and hate to say it--Kass's moves.

 

I noticed that.  Jeff did not say the traditional "This is the last chance to use the Idol". TONY said that. I think/hope that will come back to bite him in the ass.

 

And what makes Kass think she stands a CHANCE in the Final 3, assuming she makes it that far? The jury hates her way more than they hate Tony.

 

And, by the way, Kass needs to be smacked with a bag of dicks.

Bwah Ha Ha. OK, you win the internet for that.

 

Yeah, it helps when they cast people who like and understand the game, instead of just 20 year olds who once won a wet t-shirt contest on spring break.

 

I dunno.  I think you need that mix.  Though still watchable and entertaining (this season has been awesomely unpredictable!), I miss the old days when people didn’t know the game so well and have plans based on knowledge of 20+ seasons of the show. I feel in the last few seasons that people are “PLAYING THE GAME” rather than actually playing the game, if that makes sense.

Edited May 15, 2014 by ShadowDenizen

[ElleryAnne]

When he picked Trish for the reward challenge, I wish he would have just said that while they are all hungry, she's clearly starving and badly needs the food.  I suspect that is the actual reason he picked her.

 

 

Didn't Jeff kinda help Tony out there by offering that interpretation for him?  I thought he said something about Tony picking Trish because Trish needed the food, based on how Tony referred to Trish when he picked her.  (I think Tony called her "Anorexia"?)

[JohnnyGilda]

 

I think what she's describing is that Kass likes to push people's buttons and then accuses them of behaving poorly when they respond.

 

This is a Top 5 play in the Smug Handbook to which Kass seems to be a devotee.  Name-calling -- "You're making an ass of yourself."  "Psycho-bitch..."  -- and bird-flipping are somewhere in the same volume.  Kass is playing a game, but I would not describe it as unemotional.

 

 

When he picked Trish for the reward challenge, I wish he would have just said that while they are all hungry, she's clearly starving and badly needs the food.  I suspect that is the actual reason he picked her.

 

He did say that, and in true Tony fashion, when he called her "Anorexia."

Edited May 15, 2014 by JohnnyGilda

[Tara Ariano]

Here's Trip's post on the episode!

[FineWashables]

My favorite part: Woo interviews that he really has to think about whether or not it's time to make a move, and falls silent.  While he does, there's an amplified sound of crickets in the jungle.  No kidding.  That was great!  

 

And that said, go Woo.  If I were on the jury I'd vote for Spencer because he never actually "betrayed" any of the jury members, being from another tribe, and because I like Spencer for the most part.  But if Spencer isn't in the final three, I'd vote Woo in a heartbeat.  Hasn't led an initiative to screw anybody over which does make him a coattailer but, at the same time, shouldn't really have made him any enemies either.  Tony and Kass, on the other hand, well, I keep using the word "odious" and I'm sticking with it.  Wouldn't it be horrible if her obnoxiousness paid off at the end?

 

Tony in his SpyShack and hiding in the bushes -- that alone makes this an entertaining season.  

 

I think the reason Tony voted for Trish is fairly straightforward.  He understood that everyone else was going to vote her out and that there was nothing he could do to stop it -- other than give her one of his idols, which would have made great sense if he weren't threatened by her potential to beat him in the final three.  So he goes along in order to maintain the illusion that he's calling the shots.  Doesn't want his vote to appear irrelevant.  Ego.  Ego and SpyShack.  Now that would make a good title for a cop show.

[ProfCrash]

He should have still voted for Kass in order to maintain the illusion that he was working with Trish. One of the first things that the Jury at Ponderosa pointed out to Trish when she arrived is that Tony voted for her and that they could tell by his body language and his inability to look at Trish. She was shocked.

[LizBug]

Quick question:  The previews said something about the two-hour finale being next week.  Is that next Wednesday?  Or did they mean a regular episode on Wednesday and then the two-hour finale on the Sunday after that?

 

Nevermind ... found the answer:

 

"CBS announced its Spring 2014 finale dates on Thursday (March 20) morning and the major switch is that for the first time in 10 years, "Survivor" has opted not to go with a Sunday finale and will, instead, wrap the "Cagayan" season on the aforementioned May 21, sticking with the normal Wednesday air schedule."

Edited May 15, 2014 by DallasGypsy

[Etta Place]

I think Tony voted for Woo for two reasons: 1. that's the way the wind was blowing, and he didn't want to be on the losing side, and 2. Thinking that that puts Woo in the final 3 with him, he wants to be able to say that Woo's never made a big move on his own, never caught Tony off-guard.

[Miss Scarlet]

It's a really interesting personal dilemma to watch a fight between two people that I hate. 

ITA. This has been a good season, but I can't root for any of these players. Can we cast some likable people next season?

[picklesprite]

I've been working out a final TC defense for Woo in case he makes it to the end: "My strategy of playing dumb has worked!" Then he gives a big, triumphant grin, and then he strikes a classic Woo pose of staring blankly straight ahead, and then he laughs, and the jury is delighted with him.

 

The way Kass pushes people's buttons reminds me of TV attorneys who aggressively push and push to get a witness to explode. It's amazing to watch it work in real life. So, I admire that part of her performance in this episode, but I don't admire her overall play, because it's just so one-dimensional. She doesn't seem to have a clue what to do to advance her game *after* she provokes people. And her pattern of attacking and then doubling down by attacking her targets again when they respond to her is classic bully behavior. "You're ugly." "Ouch." "Wimp." She has the worst and most entertaining social game I've seen in a long time. But, hey, there she is, the only woman left on the island. Sucks to be her, though.

 

Tony has made this season for me. He's smart, he's dumb, he's sane, he's nuts, he's logical, he's irrational, he's a control freak, he's able to back off, he's. . .fantastically entertaining and makes everybody around him be more entertaining, too.

 

This is my favorite Survivor season of all, and maybe my favorite reality show season.

Edited May 15, 2014 by picklesprite

[survivinmt]

I keep going back and forth on Kass. LIked her, disliked her, REALLY disliked her, now I kind of like her again. She isn't playing the victim as Trish kept saying. She does however, quite annoyingly, keep saying stuff like, "I meant for you to hear. I meant for you to take it that way." etc. I think every once in a while its true but not nearly as often as she's saying it. I think anyone who doesn't take her to the end is crazy and I can't WAIT to hear her final arguments.

Really rooting for Spencer. He did great at the slide puzzle and really has fought hard in every challenge.

I loved that during the arguing - noone was lying. Everyone was just blowing up at each other. Tony thinking that no one else can talk to each other once he's talked to them is crazy. Just because you told Cass what you're going to do with the inherent reasoning that is what is best for Tony's game - why should Kass just lay back and accept that? She shouldn't, she did absolutely the right thing. And her question to Woo was a no-lose situation for her. "Did Tony swear to you on his wife and child?" No or yes, Tony comes out looking shady.

[leighdear]

I'm hoping that on the jury, there are a lot more sour grapes than gameplay admirers for Tony. He sucked at challenges, never once winning immunity. That's big for some jury members.

And the Ponderosa folks have a LOT of time & conversation with the others to get their personal winner-vote criteria straight in their minds. Just about any decision can be presented as "logical", if a jury member wants to be seen that way.

We've all seen the wild unpredictability of jury members in past seasons, and no matter how well a finalist has actually followed "Outwit, Outlast, Outplay", somebody on the jury is usually just going for the revenge vote. And I LOVE those folks! *LOL*

[kikismom]

survivinmt: Excellent point about the no-lose situation with her question. Maybe she did learn something in law school.

I remember in the episode, Tony told Woo : "I swear on my father's grave"...does he have a whole list of family-swears? Are they ranked in order of culpability? Can you break a promise to the dead, but not to the living?

What will he do next week at TC when he can't bring out his bag of trickeration (tm Charles Barkley)?

[survivinmt]

That mud pit looked fantastic! I want access to a fresh mud pit about twice a year. They all looked so funny with mud in their hair. Tony made up for no hair with just more skin area. But him eating that pizza was not something I'd want to sit across from. Never know when your hand might get tangled with his and before you know it . . . fewer fingers!

Woo's description of the dysfunctional family was pretty spot on and quite funny. I would really like him if he just had a little more brain power.

Did anyone catch Trish's face as she voted? And her voice-over was saying how she was too nice for the game. Frightening, just frightening.

[henripootel]

That mud pit looked fantastic! I want access to a fresh mud pit about twice a year.

You might want to think twice.  Mud pits are now common at survival-marathon races and are apparently a hotbed for, ugh, fecal contamination and cross-infections.  Make sure you get some nice fresh mud, survivinmt.

[Gentian root]

In light of the recent climate change report, I cringed when I saw the pizzas being delivered by helicopter

 

A drone would have been cool.

[survivinmt]

I hear you henripootel, about fresh mud. I was just thinking how if I tried to make my own mud with what is in my yard it would be full of bison, elk, deer, dog, and coyote crap. Ah, the delights of living outside a National Park.

 

I think the liklihood of winners of the four left are Spencer, Tony, Woo, and Kass. I get why, or I think I get why, Tony voted for Kass but I think Woo is a more likely vote for Tony on the jury. I think Trish votes either Woo or Spencer, depending on who makes the end. Spencer I think will be true to his word and vote for Tony in the end. If Tony gets bumped though, I have no idea who he would vote for. I think Spencer has either Kass or Woo's vote now if they get booted.

[ratgirlagogo]

Reposting from TWOP:

The one thing I can say about this episode is that it completely confirmed my suspicion that Trish was playing a much stronger game than we were being shown.  Tony was planning to take her right to the end, and then ditch her, I think - I believe he was never planning to have her next to him at FTC.  I think he was originally planning to ditch her next week,though, and all the hoo-hah with Woo and Kass made him change his plan.    Tony's dream final three is Tony/Woo/Kass and I think has been that for a while now.  If that IS the final three, I think Tony wins, with Woo getting a couple of votes and Kass getting none,  but if Spencer wins another immunity I believe he wins the million handily.

 

If Kass has been playing for the goat position all season, she has played brilliantly.  But I believe she has been actually trying win, and in that case she has played idiotically.  She cannot win and I believe will not get a single vote. 

 

Quote

    I'm not here because everyone loves me. I'm here in *spite* of everything, because I played the game well. Isn't that worth a vote to win?"

 

Good luck with that. The jury does not vote for people they hate, unless there's someone that is hated even more.  Tony doesn't qualify in that regard.

It will be interesting if it does end up being a F2 with Tony and Kass, since they have both been such emotional players, in different ways.  Tony's clear inability to control his feelings will play better with the jury, I suspect, even with the jurors who are angry with him.  I don't think Kass will be able to prevent herself from ridiculing the jurors and I believe still has no idea that she's the goat.

 

Edited for spelling.  I need to figure out how to make my spellcheck work for me on this site.

Edited May 16, 2014 by ratgirlagogo

[Yeldarbe]

While we were watching, Mr. Yeldarbe was convinced that Tony was giong to win since he was so far ahead. I told him not to worry as I doubted Tony knew a thing about slide puzzles. I was so excited that I was right! I'm still rooting for Spencer but unless he wins immunity he's toast.

[henripootel]

I hear you henripootel, about fresh mud. I was just thinking how if I tried to make my own mud with what is in my yard it would be full of bison, elk, deer, dog, and coyote crap. Ah, the delights of living outside a National Park.

 

Wow.  Couple of days ago I confronted a bear in my trash, which is not rare but still notable here in the Blue Ridge of Virginia.  Man, you win.

 

Every now and again I come across those shots of hippies frolicking in the mud at Woodstock, and these days I gag a little.  Can you even imagine the filth they were splashing in?  I got a whiff of that queasiness last night when they started rubbing mud on their heads.  I may be spoiled for life, and too bad as I love playing in mud.

Edited May 15, 2014 by henripootel

[ReadingZombie]

I know the episode titles are always a quote from a Survivor, but I think it would have been better if the title had been "The Straw that Broke the Llama's Back." 

 

I don't recall Jeff ever losing it at Tribal Council the way he did last night. You could tell he was trying not to laugh, but when Tony did his llama thing he couldn't help himself. 

 

 

The other thing that impressed me was when he said in an interview (paraphrasing): "Kass may be a great person in real life, but she's not a great person in Survivor."  So many people talk about what a horrible person someone obviously is at the core because of how they play the game, like Jane did with Marty in Nicaragua (it was something like how he is such a terrible person that she'd never let her kids associate with his.)

 

That impressed me, as well. It also impressed me that he wasn't hyperventilating when he gave that confessional. He seemed calm and rational. Makes me wonder how often Tony was giddy and hyper and downright crazy out there and how often he was calm and well, fairly normal and we just weren't seeing it. 

 

I didn't like how he was angry that Kass was also playing the game and I thought she had a good point there. Of course, we all know how Boston Rob forbade anyone in his alliance to talk to anyone outside of the alliance, so maybe he was trying to take a page out of that handbook? He should have known it would never work with this bunch.

 

I'm still holding out hope that somehow Spencer manages to get to FTC. I think he can beat Tony. Especially since we seem to be dealing with more than a few Bitter Betty's on the jury. We know everyone is gunning for Kass to be sitting next to them. She's the only totally beatable one. Woo may pull a few votes in if he is sitting next to Tony. I think most people see him as Tony's sheep, so I'm not sure how many he can get, but based on his confessional, Tony seems worried Woo will pull in votes, too. We'll see if Spencer can keep up his immunity run. I really hope he can. I'd love to see a Tony/Spencer showdown at FTC. I think it could be epic.

[dolphincorn]

 

I'm hoping that on the jury, there are a lot more sour grapes than gameplay admirers for Tony. He sucked at challenges, never once winning immunity. That's big for some jury members.

 

At the moment, though, there's only one challenge-winner on the jury: Tasha.  It would by rather hypocritical of the jury to put such a high premium on challenge wins. But juries are always hypocritical, so I wouldn't be surprised if it comes up.

[bluebonnet]

It's weird.  I've never been all that impressed with someone who can win immunity.  Sure, it's neat to watch a player with a certain set of skills that can totally dominate in the challenges.  The challenges are fun to watch but I never really cared before, probably because I'm somewhat clumsy and ungraceful so I know that I would suck super bad at them.  However, this season, I have been totally captivated by the challenges and who wins.  I think some of it was because I naturally want to root for the underdog.  But a large part of it is how they divided the teams.  I wouldn't be all that impressed with Tasha or Spencer if it was just a typical divide, but the division of Brawns/Beauty/Brains has allowed for a lot of flipped stereotypes to be played out on TV.  You don't expect the ones classified as the nerds to be so dominate in events so when they are, it's impossible not to cheer.  I was on the edge of my seat just hoping with all my might that Spencer would win.  When he won, it felt like I won too.

[JustAlison]

 

I believe still has no idea that she's the goat.

 

Kass was pretty upfront last night, I thought, on this issue. She does know she is disliked. She is just hoping Tony is more disliked. 

And I think it's worth noting, jury votes or no, second place gets Kass a hundred grand.

The real 'goats' here are those jury members who allowed Tony to run their game. IMO.

[piewarmer]

I just about wore out my 5 second rewind button last night. There was pandemonium on the sofa as we celebrated Tony's llaaaaaama talk (why llamas, WHY?  But yay!) and Skeletor slinging (I will always wave my Skeletor finger in your face!). I did note last night that despite his seemingly vacant expressions, Woo (my fake Survivor boyfriend who has great island hair) uses some polysyllabic words.

[leighdear]

As far as Individual immunities go, the breakdown is thus:

Day 19 - Woo

Day 22 - Spencer

Day 25 - Tasha

Day 28 - Tasha

Day 30 - Tasha

Day 33 - Spencer

Day 36 - Spencer

 

Not a single person on the jury won an Individual Immunity challenge, so it's true they could easily discount those victories.  But them giving no creedence at all to those wins would seem petty to me.  I think it's a big thing, but I'm not sitting on the jury.  

 

Sadly, Tasha was a casualty of war, but I could see her win Fan Favorite for her awesomeness.  Doesn't compare, but it's something.  

Edited May 15, 2014 by leighdear

[FineWashables]

Yeah, Leighdear, you're right: Tasha should be the fan favorite.  If -- I guess I have to say when -- they cast their next All-Stars, or whatever other excuse they'll have for rerunning some of this cast, I hope Tasha is the one who gets to try again.  That said, it will be Tony and/or Kass who they bring back because they are the exact opposite of awesome, and TPTB seem to think we'd rather watch annoying players.

 

If it is a final two with Kass vs Tony, then Tony will -- and should -- win.  Kass is condescending.  Tony won't set out to annoy the jury, but Kass will set out to condescend to them.  She's really invested in trying to convince both herself and the world that every move she makes is a strategic decision powered by an intellect more powerful than that of anyone around her.  Since no one who's lived with her on the island and watched her play will see how that could be true, she'll explain it to them in her condescending way.  I'm expecting Kass to deny that her gameplay has been a series of spiteful impulses driven purely by emotions she doesn't know herself well enough to acknowledge.  And that should be that.

[SourK]

Trish lost some points both with her anti-Kass tirade and her vote. I guess she thought having unreliable Tony who has voted a different person than he told her twice as her only ally was more valuable than taking people she could actually maybe beat to the final. Trish made a couple of good moves that kept her alliance together, but overall her gameplay wasn't great.

 

I think Trish was playing a different game called "Who deserves to win for being an awesome teammate?" It goes right back to day one, when she took the extra rice instead of looking for the HII. I don't personally think that Survivor should be "Who deserves to win for being an awesome teammate?" but a sizeable minority of players seem to think that that's what it's about and, from that perspective, it makes sense that she would want to punish Kass for being a sucky teammate and go to the end saying, "I was loyal to Tony and Woo, and I carried all the fire wood, and I got the extra rice, etc, etc." It depends on what you expect to be rewarded for at the end.

 

Nevermind ... found the answer:

 

"CBS announced its Spring 2014 finale dates on Thursday (March 20) morning and the major switch is that for the first time in 10 years, "Survivor" has opted not to go with a Sunday finale and will, instead, wrap the "Cagayan" season on the aforementioned May 21, sticking with the normal Wednesday air schedule."

 

This pleases me because, for the first time in 10 yesrs, Survivor will not conflict with any of my other shows.

[Alapaki]

Kass is condescending.  Tony won't set out to annoy the jury, but Kass will set out to condescend to them.

 

 

I agree with this.  And I think that Kass' presence at the FTC, either as juror or finalist, could have an unexpected influence.  Personally, I can't stand Kass so much that I'm inclined to support whoever she's attacking, regardless of how I feel about that person on their own merits.

 

I think Kass' "gameplay" is the equivalent of a little kid holding their finger an inch from their siblings' face and squawking "I'm not even touching you, I'm not even touching you, I'm not even touching you."  And, to her credit, she's good at it.  It's not easy to that big an asshole.  But to what end?  Blowing up someone else's game doesn't automatically inure to her benefit.  The jury will always have a non-Kass alternative to vote for.

 

In that sense, I see Kass as the same as Russell and Amanda, in that she thinks that merely getting to FTC entitles her to $1 million regardless of how the jurors feel about her.

 

I do agree that Tony's fate depends on whether the jurors are bitter or are the type to "reward gameplay".  In that regard, we really haven't gotten many juror reaction shots towards Tony as far as I can tell.  Certainly not the way we got reaction shots to Kass and Trish last night.  I realize that editing has a lot to do with that.  But the absence of any such shots leads me to think that Tony either gets shut out, or gets a lot of votes.

 

I can't wait to see.

 

for the first time in 10 years, "Survivor" has opted not to go with a Sunday finale and will, instead, wrap the "Cagayan" season on the aforementioned May 21, sticking with the normal Wednesday air schedule."

 

 

Jeff described it as a "two hour finale."  Don't they usually talk about a "3 hour EVENT"?  I wonder if we're getting an abbreviated result/reunion show.

 

Also interesting that we didn't get a "loved ones" episode this season.  We also didn't get an immunity challenge that reveals the pecking order.  

[Alapaki]

edited to add:

 

According to Probst's Q&A at ew.com, there is a finale after the 2-hour episode.

 

Also, Dalton captures my thoughts about Kass' gameplay:

 

Look, I have no problem with anyone saying anything to further themselves in the game, but this is a perfect example of stirring the pot for no reason whatsoever. This is the time in the game when Kass should be trying to rebuild her reputation, not pissing people off. She may be dragging Tony down a bit by going back and crowing to Woo about what he said, but she drags herself down in the process, especially later when this information is once again relayed to a head-shaking jury. You have to look at risk vs. reward in every situation, and there was no reward to be had here.

 

[MMLEsq]

Jeff described it as a "two hour finale."  Don't they usually talk about a "3 hour EVENT"?  I wonder if we're getting an abbreviated result/reunion show.

I just looked on the TV Guide website -- it shows a 2-hour finale, with a 1-hour reunion special following it.

 

ETA:  Posted before I saw Alapaki's second post....

Edited May 15, 2014 by MMLEsq

[Wandering Snark]

It's still a three hour feature, two hours of the conclusion to the season and then the standard one hour "Probst talks to his favorites" show. (At least according to tivo that is).

 

This year they did get letters and also product placement smartphone videos right? But yeah surprising they didn't have any loved ones visits. And yeah there were no 'cut the ropes holding your figure from being smashed' or 'Feast or Fight for Immunity' challenges either? (Though I may be wrong on the last one?) Odd.

 

ETA: Interestingly in this change-back they are going head to head with the American Idol finale.

Edited May 15, 2014 by Wandering Snark

[Snaporaz]

 

And I think it's worth noting, jury votes or no, second place gets Kass a hundred grand.

I've actually wondered about this.  Does 2nd place still get $100,000?  They never mention that anymore, and I thought they did away with it in favor of the Fan Favorite prize.

[txvoodoo]

According to my cable guide:

• 8 eastern, 7 central: 2 hour finale. 
• 10 eastern, 9 central: reunion special. 

 

We still get our 3 hours! I'm pleased as punch, because Sunday night on CBS is usually a mess, due to sports and stuff. I noticed that they're moving Amazing Race to Friday nights next season, which makes me happy for the same reason. 

[EC Amber]

Due to a family event I missed the episode, here are my thoughts... even though I'm coming in late with this. 

The mud challenge - both the winner and the fact that he took Trisha with him came as no surprise. I did like his reason for picking her and actually take it on its face. 

Kass just comes off as a horrible person. What is starting to amuse me is how she has played this game in one of the worst ways possible and thinks her game play is actually working. There is this weird blind spot she's got that I've seen in other players (Russell, Phillip come top to mind). What is it about them that makes them so delusional? 

I am really enjoying the abundance of camp clips. There seems to be a lot going on and it's refreshing to actually see what felt like a lot more of it. 

I really thought Tony had it in the bag until I saw him attack the slide puzzle. 

This is sadly one of those seasons where the people who have some seriously repellant personalities hold on at the expense of folks who have a personality that you want to see win. 

Tony with his ability to swear on anything without discrimination. It's so nauseating to watch because there is just no substance to it. 

I don't think I've ever seen such a giggling Tribal Council - even Probst pointed it out! Woo was surprisingly insightful. Is there a reason that Tony didn't give his idol to Trish? Could he not? 

And again, like last week: fuck Kass. 

Holy crap! It wasn't until I saw the Ponderosa video that I found out Tony voted against Trish. 

[Joystickenvy]

To some extent, Kass' plan appeared to work, in that Tony appeared to lose his cool & Woo tried to have thoughts, but I couldn't figure out what she thought she was accomplishing by it. I guess she thinks she is stirring up more anti-Tony resentment on the jury and his flipping on Trish actually did seem to result in that based on the Ponderosa footage, but in the process she's burning bridges with Trish and fueling the jury hatred of herself.

I guess she is still underestimating just how much people don't like her or she really is playing for an invite back, rather than to win. If there is a second place prize, tempting people to vote you out because you are so unpleasant, when you're nearly a lock to get there if you just hang tight doesn't make much sense either.

[KimberStormer]

I don't know what game people are playing unless

it is a final 2 and everybody knows it; but that doesn't make sense either because they keep talking about Final 3. I don't understand why Kass would stir up trouble when her guaranteed F3 is Tony and Trish--the two people, I would say, she has the best chance with. Tony who Kass thinks everyone hates, and Trish who everyone thinks is Tony's puppet (even people who are watching on TV and have seen her save her alliance when Tony was telling her not to bother trying to flip Kass).  If it's an F2 and she knows it then I guess she's thinking (correctly, probably) that Trish wouldn't take her to the end in the event that she wins final immunity?  I don't understand why Tony would get rid of Trish, who is, even if he thinks she can beat him, another vote in his corner to fend off the others at F4, unless he knows it's F2 and he had to get rid of Trish anyway to drag Kass to the end so might as well now when everyone's voting that way anyway.

  I guess I get what Woo is doing, and of course Spencer is just doing whatever to get him to the end where he will beat anyone.

 

As long as we're making unpopular confessions, I hate this season.  It was really good to start off, but as soon as that damn Yul idol came in I've lost all interest in the game, and I don't like anyone on the island, and Ponderosa makes me pretty unenthusiastic about everyone else too.  Not the first time I've been in the minority opinion on a season--I am not a Cook Islands fan, I love One World once Colton goes home.  I just wish I could enjoy this one the way everyone else does.  Maybe I'm just all Survivored out finally.

[samuel]

I don't think the players are told in advance whether it will be a final 3 or final 2. I think they (and most of us, it seems) are all assuming it will be a F3 because that's how the past several seasons were. We'll see, I guess.

Edited May 16, 2014 by samuel

[susannot]

The one thing I admire about Kass has nothing to do with her gameplay at all, and it's just that she's not intimidated by things like Tony yelling at her. She's basically impossible to bully, and I like that.

 

I like that about her too.  That's her trial lawyer skill set. A female trial lawyer ( I was one) doesn't get far unless she develops a hard shell and learns how to deal with bullies.  Many male trial lawyers will try anything to bully, intimidate, loom over, and even physically dominate their female opponents.  Good female trial lawyers will act exactly like Kass-take no bullshit, don't back down, laugh at the bullyboy tactics, and be smarter than them.

 

That said, I don't think Kass can win because most people don't like hard-shell bitchy female trial lawyers.  Most people like cops, even asshole cops, better.

I don't think the players are told in advance whether it will be a final 3 or final 2. I think they (and most of us, it seems) are all assuming it will be a F3 because that's how the past several seasons were. We'll see, I guess.

 

The website Survivor Whispers is saying it will be a Final 2.  If so, if either Spencer or Woo get there, they win.  Against each other?  I think Spencer wins.

Edited May 16, 2014 by susannot