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S07.E05: A New Bundle of Joy/S07.E06: Joy Gives Birth

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3 hours ago, sigmaforce86 said:

I can't follow the timeline on this at all.  I'd watch it again to get the details but that's too much to bother with right now so the basics.  The call comes to the TTH at 4 or 4:30am that Joy is in labor.  JB Duggar "announces" Joy is in labor to the youngers plus Ben was there at around 11am.  So did they all just wake up then?  By that count Joy had been in labor for 6 to 6.5 hours.  I know we've read they're not morning people but find it hard to believe they went until nearly lunchtime before Daddy Duggar said anything.  More likely - staged announcement for the film crew - they shouldn't have bothered with the time on the screen though, it just looks stupid.

Then, I don't have the exact time but JB get's the call that Joy has to go to the hospital.  It is still light outside when he hightails it to the car.  But then we're told she's been in labor 20 hours.  From the time that first call came in 20 hours later would be midnight.  Even being generous, she was in labor 2 hours before they called the TTH for MeChelle then 20 hours later would be 10pm.  It should be dark outside!  Were they doing that Duggar thing where she had a few twinges the day before so that was the "start" of labor?  We know from Jill and Jessa they like to pad their times a bit lot.  Or was it actually the next day and she'd gone over 24 hours and into the next morning?  Impossible to tell.

Either way, whether it was 20+ hours or 3-4 hours it's completely irresponsible to take so long to get her to the hospital.  We had several scenes of her in labor with sub-titles of 8 hours, 10 hours etc and we hear Jill and the face blurred faux midwife telling her the babies heartbeat is good, vitals are good.  And in that whole time they couldn't tell where the heartbeat was in relation to the babies position?  The worst part is I don't doubt at all that Joy thinks her labor was normal and was supposed to take that long and that they couldn't have "diagnosed" the breech any earlier than they did.

As for the rest of the episode - the bachelor party wasn't anything exciting although I share Jessa's hate for marshmallows.  It was interesting that some of the girls including Jana felt free to roll up their sleeves and bare shoulders.  Jinger's comment that 15 babies is a litter was really funny and I have to give credit she seems very comfortable with Jeremy now.  That year to settle in and not immediately pop out kids may have served them well.  If they're going to re-create things like baby announcements they need to make sure everyone is on-board and at least semi good at acting.  Because either Austin's parents are the worst actors in the free world or they are the least excited Grandparents ever.  Their response was on the excitement level of being told Austin had bought new shoelaces that morning.  And, of course, Michelle made it all about her - does she say "Your first baby"?  Nope, of course not, first comment is "MY tenth Grandbaby".  Yup MeChelle, your daughters popping out kids is all about you, keep playing mother of the year in your quest for the biggest fundie family.

Mechelle said in the car that Joy was already dilated to 6 when the call came in at 4am. The very first caption showed Joy laboring with the date 2/22 and noting it was her due date. This was before the 4am call to the TTH. 

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6 hours ago, sigmaforce86 said:

I can't follow the timeline on this at all.  I'd watch it again to get the details but that's too much to bother with right now so the basics.  The call comes to the TTH at 4 or 4:30am that Joy is in labor.  JB Duggar "announces" Joy is in labor to the youngers plus Ben was there at around 11am.  So did they all just wake up then?  By that count Joy had been in labor for 6 to 6.5 hours.  I know we've read they're not morning people but find it hard to believe they went until nearly lunchtime before Daddy Duggar said anything.  More likely - staged announcement for the film crew - they shouldn't have bothered with the time on the screen though, it just looks stupid.

Then, I don't have the exact time but JB get's the call that Joy has to go to the hospital.  It is still light outside when he hightails it to the car.  But then we're told she's been in labor 20 hours.  From the time that first call came in 20 hours later would be midnight.  Even being generous, she was in labor 2 hours before they called the TTH for MeChelle then 20 hours later would be 10pm.  It should be dark outside!  Were they doing that Duggar thing where she had a few twinges the day before so that was the "start" of labor?  We know from Jill and Jessa they like to pad their times a bit lot.  Or was it actually the next day and she'd gone over 24 hours and into the next morning?  Impossible to tell.

Either way, whether it was 20+ hours or 3-4 hours it's completely irresponsible to take so long to get her to the hospital.  We had several scenes of her in labor with sub-titles of 8 hours, 10 hours etc and we hear Jill and the face blurred faux midwife telling her the babies heartbeat is good, vitals are good.  And in that whole time they couldn't tell where the heartbeat was in relation to the babies position?  The worst part is I don't doubt at all that Joy thinks her labor was normal and was supposed to take that long and that they couldn't have "diagnosed" the breech any earlier than they did.

.

I hope the full fledged card carrying, medical/ residency school educated, state board certified licensed OB-GYN,MD {let me know if I left out any credentials)  that did the EMERGENCY C-Sect had a LONG talk with her at the follow-up appt. Again my memory fails, but I think after a c-sect the mom has an appt 2-6 weeks after the surgery. 

And to take it one step further - any "so-called-medical" personnel at that home birth - needs to have a hearing in front of some authority about their behavior and ethics. And yes, I am including you Jill.  Does births come under the charge of child endangerment ?

Edited by sATL
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I kind of like Austin's mother gingerly bringing up the subject of 'Plan B'.  She herself had a c-section with Austin so she realizes Joy's 'decision' to have a home birth could go awry.  

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5 hours ago, Loves2Dance said:

It's definitely not the norm, but there tends to be a belief that the weight of the parents can effect the weight of the baby. My sister has all normal sized kids 6-8 lbs, she was an average sized baby. I was 7 lbs 14 oz, my husband was 10 lbs 8 oz. First one was 10 lbs, second was 9 lbs so they favored his size over mine. If the Duggars grow them big, it'll be a trend. I don't remember Anna having huge babies though. 

We found out youngest was breech around my 30 week check-up, at 32 weeks when she hadn't moved they ordered an extra scan, did ultrasounds at 34 and 38 weeks to confirm size and positive. I was a stubborn one so I didn't let them touch her, via c/s, until I was past 40 weeks but I knew if I went into actual labor that I was to report to the hospital immediately, do not pass go, do not collect $200 type of fast. Our house was exactly 4 minutes by car to the hospital.

And while big babies are a risk when you have GD, I was cleared 3 times in each pregnancy. I just make them big.  

Anna's babies weren't small by any means, but they have been smaller than the Duggar daughters' babies. 

Which is why I am predicting that Kendra's baby will be the smallest out of all of them thus far.

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I don't mind they sent Jana a text, a phone call would have been nicer, but she was still the first Duggar they told, so Joy did tell her mom first, as it should be. 

Jinger is the first Duggar daughter who seemingly has a plan, or at least a pipe dream, on how to maybe be self supporting or not completely dependent on JimBob. Even if nothing ever comes of it, she's given some thought to things, which is more than any of her sisters, and most of her brothers. 

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We only got one episode on iTunes, Joy announces she‘s pregnant (with a baby that she has subsequently given birth to). 

The color timing on this show is very poor. Everyone was burnt orange and a whiter shade of pale in this episode. 

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I had to re-watch these episodes this afternoon so I could stay AWAKE. Did anyone else notice that Michelle's voice seemed way more normal for a grown woman her age? That wispy baby voice wasn't too prominent here. That makes me certain that the baby voice is and was totally fake.  I could also tell that Joy was not COMPLETELY overly happy to be pregnant. She seemed a bit hesitant and she had some fear also. ....but she quickly had to correct herself and tell everyone and herself that she was blessed and happy about the news. I'm sorry, but I don't think she is any where NEAR ready to be a mother to anything at this point...Kendra is in the same boat, they are both children.

I agree that their 'complexions' were all over the color wheel. 

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Joy has taken care of too many of her sib babies so they are not magical or awe inspiring so she is just glad to be done with her labor which could have gone south...but didn’t.

Hopefully, the experience was harrowing enough to make Austin and Joy slow their roll on having a sibling for Giddyup.

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9 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I haven't had a chance to watch the episode yet, but Daily Mail ran an article on it and there were 300+ comments wondering how the breech could've been missed. I think people are largely unaware that "lay midwives" exist and that there's a huge difference between them and a CNM. People unfamiliar with the family hear "midwife" and assume a real professional was involved.

Eta: DFO has deleted all negative comments regarding the birth. I also received a nasty response  from a Duggar leghumper who informed me the Duggar girls go to ALL prenatal appointments and have ultrasounds just like any OTHER woman and who am I to judge this family? So they were getting care all along and both Izzy and Gideon were missed breeches? Sure, Jan.

BitterApple, what does DFO stand for?  Thanks.  

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Didn't anyone notice that the "announcement" was probably filmed way after the fact that Joy was pregnant? Her belly looked HUGE.

I was horrified for Joy because we all know she had zero prenatal care except for Dr. Jill Failure At Being a Midwife. I was worried that she would be delivering a dead baby with her around.

And the "fake" let's make food for Joy was beyond stoopid. MeChelle looked completely uncomfortable like why am in the kitchen uncomfortable. That scene was a waste of time.

I'm still getting over the fact that these yahoos think that just because you can have a home birth that it is the bestest idea when they have unqualified women guiding them. I sure hope Kendra is running to the nearest hospital when their baby is due.

Just like you guys it was a wasted hour of my life I will never get back.

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23 hours ago, madpsych78 said:

Jinger wanting to learn how to roast coffee is something that is very in character for her. 

Sometimes she reminds me of a Portlandia character. Or straight out of some quirky, indie movie.

Edited by woodscommaelle
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27 minutes ago, Fuzzysox said:

And the "fake" let's make food for Joy was beyond stoopid. MeChelle looked completely uncomfortable like why am in the kitchen uncomfortable. That scene was a waste of time.

And WTH was up with those "enchiladas" that were wrapped like underfed burritos in flour tortillas and had some abomination of a white sauce on them?

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3 minutes ago, jcbrown said:

And WTH was up with those "enchiladas" that were wrapped like underfed burritos in flour tortillas and had some abomination of a white sauce on them?

Right? Everyone knows enchiladas are made with corn tortillas!

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4 hours ago, Jenilane6 said:

I kind of like Austin's mother gingerly bringing up the subject of 'Plan B'.  She herself had a c-section with Austin so she realizes Joy's 'decision' to have a home birth could go awry.  

Personal pet peeve—when someone describes a c-section as the dr. “taking the baby”.  I’ve known people who use that expression and it drives me nuts. Just no. 

Jana looked fabulous on the boat. Loved seeing her in shorts. Go, Jana!

When they set off that confetti canon, all I could think was “oh, great, more mess for Jana to clean up”.  I’d be so ticked if somebody set one of those things off in my house.  If I was Jana, I’d “lose” the confetti canon.  

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2 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

Joy has taken care of too many of her sib babies so they are not magical or awe inspiring so she is just glad to be done with her labor which could have gone south...but didn’t.

Hopefully, the experience was harrowing enough to make Austin and Joy slow their roll on having a sibling for Giddyup.

One would have also thought Jessa would have also had that mindset.... hemorrhaging.. blood transfusion...But looks like they don't "remember" until its time to push the next one out...

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3 minutes ago, alegtostandon said:

My guide only showed part of the episode description, it said:

"Joe and Kendra have a joint..."

Hilarious! That I would watch.

Edited by EVS
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Joe did say that they don’t need drinking alcoholic beverages to have fun...maybe some wacky tobaccy is exactly what this bunch needs....

Edited by humbleopinion
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36 minutes ago, EVS said:

Hilarious! That I would watch.

I was scrolling thru the guide, didn't think much about it when I saw that, then a few scrolls later, I thought "did I just read a Duggar is smoking pot on that new Duggar show?!", lol!

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12 hours ago, starlightlost said:

Weird question...what is this metal thing with purple pool noodles on it and a bowl underneath at Joy's house?

IMAG2240_1.jpg

The seat is a newer model baby bouncer/rocker, whatever that thing is with the pool noodle I don' know. And who knows why they have a bowl there? Weird

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Wow, that's a significant jump in ratings from the previous episodes which had been hovering around 1MM. Pregnancy/birth episodes still sell with these idiots. 

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31 minutes ago, Canadian Girl said:

What date was the wedding and what date was the birth? 

What does TTH mean? 

Tater Tot House.  What we call the Duggar compound, named after their "famous"  (gag) tater tot casserole (also known as the instant sodium death meal).  Recipe here if you dare: http://www.duggarfamilyblog.com/2011/10/duggars-tater-tot-casserole.html

Reminds me - that's one thing I didn't see the meal prep team making to freeze at Joy's house..........Progress!

Oh, also, it means Tinker Toy House, named for the way JB "built" it himself with later help from TLC.  I think Tinker Toy is the more common meaning here but I've seen both phrases used and I lean toward the tater tot house phrase.

ETA:  Wedding May 26th, Pregnancy announcement (public) August 30th, Birth February 23rd.   

Edited by sigmaforce86
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32 minutes ago, Canadian Girl said:

What date was the wedding and what date was the birth? 

What does TTH mean? 

If you go to the thread 19 questions and counting and go to the first page there is an amazing "dictionary" of Duggar talk.  It was a goldmine when I first got here.

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Both Jim Bob and Michelle had massive amounts of time on camera in these two episodes.  After three years, it looks like they are part of reality TV again.  How in the world did this happen and why did TLC change its mind?  Josh and Derick are gone forever or can we expect them to reappear too someday?  I'm truly disgusted to see these sexual-abuse-cover-ups back on this family show.

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12 hours ago, Fuzzysox said:

Didn't anyone notice that the "announcement" was probably filmed way after the fact that Joy was pregnant? Her belly looked HUGE.

 

And the "fake" let's make food for Joy was beyond stoopid. MeChelle looked completely uncomfortable like why am in the kitchen uncomfortable. That scene was a waste of time.

 

And Jana was just the opposite.  She seemed to be flitting around getting things done while the others were telling baby stories.  Not sure if they showed Jessa actually doing anything except sitting on sofa holding Henry.  I agree that enchilada dish looked nasty.  Joy couldn't even handle writing the cooking instructions on the finished casseroles. 

9 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

Joe did say that they don’t need drinking alcoholic beverages to have fun...maybe some wacky tobaccy is exactly what this bunch needs....

You are so right.  I know the Bates follow the same ideas, but they are a much happier group.  

Couldn't TLC think of another idea for the party? It didn't seem like many of them participated in the water sports. Even Joe said he did it for Kendra but otherwise didn't enjoy the water.   You would think since JD has his own boat & MEchelle was the water skier more of them would have an interest.  It shows they (mainly the guys)  would rather sit around no matter where they are.  In this case, on a pontoon boat driven by their father eating snacks prepared by their sisters. 

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That chair thing with the bowl looks like a portable toilet - maybe so the birthing mom doesn't have to go to far from the room or have a "toilet water" baby like ANNA?

Just my opinion!

Kendra needs to lay off the self tanning lotion.

I actually am liking Jeremey and Ben more and more (hides in the corner alone...)

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I thought it was a squat bar to push out the placenta!  Handy bowl and all.  However, it seems too narrow for a laboring Joy to squeeze into!

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23 hours ago, starlightlost said:

Weird question...what is this metal thing with purple pool noodles on it and a bowl underneath at Joy's house?

IMAG2240_1.jpg

I thought it was maybe a contraption to squat on and the bowl was to collect body fluids?  I have never seen such a thing?  It looks really low to the floor and not very sturdy IMO.

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31 minutes ago, louannems said:

I thought it was a squat bar to push out the placenta!  Handy bowl and all.  However, it seems too narrow for a laboring Joy to squeeze into!

that thought passed though my mind too... and if so, what happens to the bowl afterwards? I mean it looks like the run-of-the-mill mixing bowl..

Yes, cleaners/bleach exist for a reason, BUT, I wouldn't want a device used for body fluids to go back into the kitchen cabinet...

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just saw an article on a somewhat untrustworthy site that said the Duggars may have covered up Joy's premarital pregnancy.

I have a really hard time keeping up with the timelines and editing on these shows to know what is happening when.  They mix up the events on purpose to confuse us.

But apparently Joy and Austin were planning an October 2017 wedding, but moved it up to May suddenly?  And her pregnancy pics posted on social media don't appear to match with the stage of pregnancy.  I also noticed when they were making their "announcement" to the family she looked very obviously pregnant. And no one seemed particularly surprised.

I didn't catch Ben's TH where he said he came home from work and Jessa told him that Joy had the baby- but on the show it was staged to show everyone sitting around waiting for the news.  

Again, take this with a grain of salt, but maybe some one is a better sluther than me and can confirm whether this is possible or not!

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I doubt a Duggar girl would have been allowed to be alone long enough to have sex before marriage and even if she did, it's a non-issue.  Better to call out the other things the Duggars do that are worthy of derision.  It's quite a long list, and they keep adding to it.

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On 3/20/2018 at 5:52 PM, starlightlost said:

Weird question...what is this metal thing with purple pool noodles on it and a bowl underneath at Joy's house?

IMAG2240_1.jpg

Well, the pool noodles are for floating and the bowl is to catch a baby.  Put them together and they are just more of midwife Jill's toy medical things for use in a birthing pool. 

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Hmm, are they really just one thing?  Or is the contraption next to the bouncy seat.  maybe the contraption goes in the birthing pool so the laborer can puke into it instead of the tub?

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Ok, I just did the math. May 26 to Feb 23 is exactally  40 weeks which is how long pregnancy is. I always say that they lie to you. They say it is 9 months but it is really  40 weeks. Isnt that 10 months LOL So  Joys little chubby baby was probably a wedding night baby.

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I don’t think those two items go together. I’m guessing the thing with the pool noodle is some kind of baby contraption. Not a walker, but something the baby can stand and hold on to?  I think the bowl looks like a dog water bowl or a mixing bowl and someone just stuck it under the other contraption.  Neither Jill nor Jessa is neat or organized so I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that Joy shoves random crap in the corners of rooms. Maybe Joy wants to be slightly less sloppy than Jessa so the metal bowl will go on top of a dresser for collecting the dirty diapers. 

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2 hours ago, MV713 said:

just saw an article on a somewhat untrustworthy site that said the Duggars may have covered up Joy's premarital pregnancy.

I have a really hard time keeping up with the timelines and editing on these shows to know what is happening when.  They mix up the events on purpose to confuse us.

But apparently Joy and Austin were planning an October 2017 wedding, but moved it up to May suddenly?  And her pregnancy pics posted on social media don't appear to match with the stage of pregnancy.  I also noticed when they were making their "announcement" to the family she looked very obviously pregnant. And no one seemed particularly surprised.

I didn't catch Ben's TH where he said he came home from work and Jessa told him that Joy had the baby- but on the show it was staged to show everyone sitting around waiting for the news.  

Again, take this with a grain of salt, but maybe some one is a better sluther than me and can confirm whether this is possible or not!

That article has been around for months. The wedding was never planned for October. They just used Joy's birthday as a placeholder on their registry. The wedding was always planned so predictably that I picked the day (even on a Friday, which is now the thing for these rushed nuptials).

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2 hours ago, MV713 said:

But apparently Joy and Austin were planning an October 2017 wedding, but moved it up to May suddenly?  

No they didn't.  It's just a gossip magazine trying to make something out of nothing.  Joy and Austin used her birthday on the registry because they didn't want to put the actual date of the wedding.  Pregnancy lasts 38 weeks.  But since most women don't know when they conceive, but do know the date of their LMP, it's calculated from that which adds two weeks.  40 weeks equals approximately nine months because all months are longer than four weeks except non-leap year February.  It averages to 4.3 weeks per month. 52 divided by 12 = 4.33  And that's the math lecture of the day.  :)

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2 minutes ago, XrystalPond said:

In Georgia, CDL drivers are considered a hard to fill field. So the Technical College System of Georgia provides a grant to those wanting to learn. It's an eight-week class and then the exam for a total of $1,100. The state grant gives you $1,500, which basically means you put money in your pocket to learn to be a truck driver. 

Good to know.  My friend's brother is in CA and it cost him about 4500 to do his 8 week course and get certified and take the test.  

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MY take-away from seeing snippets of this:

Jana is wearing shorts. OK, big step, but they looked like Denim &Co., ordered off QVC late at night.

WTF was that confetti about? I noticed Jackson frolicked in it for the remainder of the scene.

Aren't Jessa's kids already on the "Cousin Crew"? Like many times over?

Mullet's voice was all screechy and high-pitched during the "grandbaby" announcement , of course she was in the presence of JB.  Then when she was in the kitchen (out of her element), I wondered who had the low drag-queen voice. Also: The announcement was all about JB and Mullet...."Oooh, our tenth grandbaby!" "We're in double digits now!"  "Let's see if we can say their names."  Puke.

Austin's mom was cute when she was young. These Fundies (Is she a Fundy?) go down hill quickly, I guess.

All of a sudden, there's someone familiar getting married to a hunky guy! Oops, that's Kindra and her hot dad...... and her guy's not hot.

The Babes will never have a coffee business, but props to them for getting TLC to buy them a nice new roaster for the episode. And I noticed that Jinge wears skirts (albeit short ones) for filming.

Just how is Jessa going to have only 6 or 7 kids? I wish someone had asked her. She's trying so hard to be the next Joanna Gaines. Too bad she's an uneducated bumpkin.

Joy will have the quintiten-whatever-it-was litter of kids because she won't know how not to.

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On 3/20/2018 at 8:52 AM, starlightlost said:

Weird question...what is this metal thing with purple pool noodles on it and a bowl underneath at Joy's house?

IMAG2240_1.jpg

It's called a birthing stool. It helps the mom sit in the squat position and at the same time give the birth attendants access. You can also hang on to it for balance when you're on your knees. And the bowl is for collecting fluids...but mostly for collecting poop.  

Source: I'm a midwife! But a real one, not a "midwife" like Jill. 

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On 3/19/2018 at 11:28 PM, SuzyLee said:

You know this show has officially hit the skids when the highlight of an episode is the sight of poor Joe bouncing around on top of Kendra in that inflatable raft.  If you promise not to tell anyone, I will admit to LOLing a bit.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

I could not believe my eyes! If Joe had a boner he may have impregnated her on that raft. 

 

Sorry I think my Kindle is dying and I'm having trouble typing!

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1 hour ago, rubot333 said:

It's called a birthing stool. It helps the mom sit in the squat position and at the same time give the birth attendants access. You can also hang on to it for balance when you're on your knees. And the bowl is for collecting fluids...but mostly for collecting poop.  

Source: I'm a midwife! But a real one, not a "midwife" like Jill. 

thanks. I just did a google image search on "birthing stool". nice to see all of the different models..

Edited by sATL

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Just caught up on both episode's since I had a snow day today.

Bachelor Party/Pregnancy: eh, boring as usual. Austin continues to be a dick (shocker) as he has to scream out "where's your chaperone" as Joe straddles Kendra during whatever that water/jet ski activity way. I suspected Jana ONLY got a text instead of in person news like Jessa bc she's single. I mean they don't view her as a grown adult bc she isn't a married woman. (And Jill likely got a visit off camera, but even if she didn't - that one at least makes sense bc you can blame it on TLC cameras not wanting to see Jill/Derick).

I did notice Jer was enthusiastic when Jing said at the coffee shop that she had been thinking of roasting coffee as a side gig. Actually his eyes kind of lit up as he said "like a part time job?!" And then suggested she could debut her blend at Joe/Kendra's wedding. I think Jer is saavy and thinking about how to capitalize on their "fame" while the show is still on the air. It's not like selling bags of coffee will pay the mortgage, but frankly it could buy the groceries/clothes/utilities and thus allow them to save a bit more/pay down their mortgage a bit faster. Jer may be the only one of these idiots who realizes life is expensive and extra money never hurts. Bags of coffee beans sell for $6-15ish usually depending on the brand. If she were to push this endeavor via social media, I bet she could get Duggar/Bates leghumpers to buy. Go debut the coffee at Joe/Kendra or Josiah/Lauren or Carlin/Evan or Josie/Kelton's weddings (probably for free) and there are thousands of additional leg humpers who could be a potential market. Frankly the Duggar weddings are sad enough that you could set up a table outside and sell. Bates - may not allow that but you could hand out little cards or something w the coffee cups giving people a discount code with a coupon. These people LOVE a bargain.

Delivery episode: what is there to say. These people are playing Dr. with childbirth -- and don't seem to get that things could go REALLY wrong, despite already needing 3? emergency c sections in the family (2 - Jill; 1 -Joy) plus having a dangerous bleeding situation after (Jessa). Maybe it's bc I've never lived in the country but when Austin's mom asked if there was a plan b for the birth and Joy casually goes - yeah if I need to get checked out, we can go to the hospital it's ONLY 30 min away - I was like WTF!?! If a baby is stuck with a decelerating heart rate or there is profuse bleeding -- ONLY 30 min -- won't be so comforting. And we can't count on Dr. Jilly Muffin to be able to anticipate such things say an hr or 3 hrs in advance so the patient can get their safely with time to spare. I mean it seems like she was taken to the hospital around 2:30-3 pm with the baby born at 3:39 pm - so transported there after 20 hrs of labor (so starting ~6:30 the evening prior, probably labored thru the night until calling the grandmas at 4 am).  Neither Dr. Jilly nor any one of the other 12 people in the room (at least a few of whom were medical "professionals" and almost all have birthed kids) could figure out from 4 am-2 pm in 10 hrs -- hmmmm -- the bowling ball that is the head isn't anywhere near the crotch -- hmm, maybe this isn't right!?

Joy looked REALLY pale to me post delivery. Blood loss? Hopefully it was in a controlled way in the hospital and actual MDs were on top of it.

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I'm waiting for a Duggarling or spouse to look up after a botched birth and scream "I'm never, ever doing THAT again!" and mean it. 

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