S02.E09: Alone

[Glade]

From the first episode I feared that this is was what would happen to Gianni's partner; there was no mention of a will even, and of course Donatella spent ep1 freely venting her straight privilege, casually denying him the kind of respect, legitimacy and consideration that would be automatically given if Gianni had a wife.  It was very painful to watch, because the same thing happened to me three years ago when my long-term boyfriend died suddenly.  His family inherited a very valuable estate, while I was snubbed at the funeral and thrown out of our home with nothing despite the fact that I was dependent on him at the time due to a chronic illness.  I was told that I only thought we had a relationship, and 'I wish you luck with whatever it is that you're planning for your future.'  The fact that gay marriage is legal doesn't change the culture that still allows people behave this way whenever they can get away with it.

The finale left me feeling sad and cold, between Andrew's final desperate moments (if he was still going out at night, surely he could find some way to surreptitiously buy food, or order delivery and like, wrap a towel around his head...) and I found no joy in watching all the heartbreak and chaos unfold.  I knew nothing about the case when I started watching, and I didn't come to learn about Versace's empire, but because I read that the show would be about homophobia in the 90's (i.e. my early childhood, when I certainly heard about OJ, but not the deaths of these gay men.)  And this was a brilliant showcase of that. particularly when it focused on the powerful stories of David, Jeff, Gianni's partner and Andrew himself.   It was very bold to throw out the courthouse setting of S1 and give us something completely different.  

Edited March 22, 2018 by Glade

[Blakeston]

30 minutes ago, Glade said:

From the first episode I feared that this is was what would happen to Gianni's partner; there was no mention of a will even, and of course Donatella spent ep1 freely venting her straight privilege, casually denying him the kind of respect, legitimacy and consideration that would be automatically given if Gianni had a wife.  It was very painful to watch, because the same thing happened to me three years ago when my long-term boyfriend died suddenly.  His family inherited a very valuable estate, while I was snubbed at the funeral and thrown out of our home with nothing despite the fact that I was dependent on him at the time due to a chronic illness.  I was told that I only thought we had a relationship, and 'I wish you luck with whatever it is that you're planning for your future.'  The fact that gay marriage is legal doesn't change the culture that still allows people behave this way whenever they can get away with it.

The finale left me feeling sad and cold, between Andrew's final desperate moments (if he was still going out at night, surely he could find some way to surreptitiously buy food, or order delivery and like, wrap a towel around his head...) and I found no joy in watching all the heartbreak and chaos unfold.  I knew nothing about the case when I started watching, and I didn't come to learn about Versace's empire, but because I read that the show would be about homophobia in the 90's (i.e. my early childhood, when I certainly heard about OJ, but not the deaths of these gay men.)  And this was a brilliant showcase of that. particularly when it focused on the powerful stories of David, Jeff, Gianni's partner and Andrew himself.   It was very bold to throw out the courthouse setting of S1 and give us something completely different.  

Ugh, so sorry this happened to you.

My guess would be that Gianni did have a will - it would be crazy for him not to, after the health problems he had. But I could see him making the will, and then losing control of the properties, and not realizing that he would need to secure Antonio's living space by other means.

Re: Andrew taking the stand - if he'd lived, and testified that David went with him because of a) fear and b) a desire to mitigate any further bloodshed, I think it would have meant a lot to David's family. It wouldn't have solved their grief, obviously, but I think it would have eased their burden.

However, would Andrew have testified that way? Would he even have believed that? If things went the way we saw them in this series, Andrew probably convinced himself that David went with him because he loved him unconditionally, in spite of Jeff's murder. And that he ended up going soft, and had to be disposed of.

Even if Andrew knew that David was horrified by the murder, who knows what he actually would have said on the stand. He would have said whatever best served his own twisted, ego-driven purposes.

[WednesdayAddams]

2 hours ago, MaryWebGirl said:

So I think there are is a big narrative parallel between this season and the OJ season, in that both stories are about murderers but they both illuminate a deeper injustice. In the OJ case it was money and celebrity and a frenzied media and racism, but all of that has been covered endlessly since the trial. The injustice with Andrew and his victims was the inherent homophobia hindering so many aspects of the case. That's something this season really helped bring to the forefront and will hopefully be part of the story of these murders from now on.

And for a less weighty thought, did they ever explain the wound on Andrew's leg that we saw in the first episode? Also one of the articles mentioned some sort of stomach wound.

Wasn't this to hint at the idea that he had AIDS? That's all I got from it.

[sugarbaker design]

7 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

However, would Andrew have testified that way?

Exactly.  By the end Andrew had morphed into a total monster.  Everyone involved is lucky he killed himself, else his path of destruction would've went on, even from his jail cell.

[madhacker]

2 hours ago, LilWharveyGal said:

15 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

 

 

Yep!  When the show started all I could see was Blaine.  By this episode, the image was totally gone.

 

2 hours ago, LilWharveyGal said:

Well, if nothing else, Darren proved he isn't just that "pretty boy from Glee" anymore.

The actor who played Versace (who was excellent, dont get me wrong) may have gotten top billing, but this was Darrens chance to shine. I really hope that he's either going be in the next season of 911 or especially AHS. I'd love to see Darren and Evan Peters play off each other.That and Darren and Matt Bomer just for the Glee inside joke especially if one kills the other.

[tennisgurl]

So, that was the tale of Andrew Cunanan and his many innocent victims. A story about fame, fortune, failure, and, ultimately, tragic, pointless death. Andrew ended up a star for a few minutes, then was just another name on a coffin in a long hallway filled with them. 

I thought this was a really good season, and I dont think its really fair to compare it to People V. OJ, even though its easy to. Its a very different story, and, while with OJ, we know so much about the trail, and the events surrounding the trail, that we have tons of information and sources to go on, while with this story, we just dont have a lot of answers. We dont know the exact motives of Andrew Cunanan or what exactly happened between him and his victims, and those answers died with Andrew. So a lot of this season was basically guesswork, and for that, I think they did a good job putting the pieces together with what we know happened, mixed with what we can guess happened. 

Loved seeing the return of several of the supporting characters, and of many of the former victims. Because, in these kinds of stories, with a media frenzy and the gory details of murder and a manhunt and endless people on TV talking about all the sociological and cultural implications of the crime and what can be done or not done about it, at the end of the day, innocent people died, and now their loved ones have to pick up the pieces. I especially loved Maryilyn doing her broadcast even after finding out how close they were to getting Andrew, and her tearing up as she saw all the wonderful, quiet things her husband did (and there was certainly a double meaning in her asking "why didn't he tell me?") and Davids father standing up for him on TV. It was interesting hearing all of the "why didn't he fight back?" style comments, both because thats classic victim blaming that has been increasingly called out as time has gone on, and because its something that a lot of people online said when they saw the episode about Andrew and Davids road trip from hell. We dont know what happened, but Davids dads hypothesis, that David thought he could stop the madness, probably mixed with pure fear and shock, seems real enough. While the star of the show was Andrew, I do appropriate that they spent so much time on the innocent victims, and their families.

Poor Antonio. The priest snubbing him, combined with being kicked to the curb by his partners family, and still dealing with the death of the person he loved, must have hurt so much. That was brutal to watch. Even if Donatella didn't like Antonio (and while I think there was some disappointment that Gianni didn't settle down with a wife and kids, I just think she disliked him anyway) he was still her brothers spouse in all but name, and he deserved to be treated as such. I know the family wasn't thrilled with this season, and I do now wonder if its because the family looks bad for how they treated Antonio, especially considering how much they have gone on about preserving Giannis legacy. Pretty sure he would want the person he loved to be treated with decency and respect too, you know? Maybe theres more to it, but it looks bad. I did feel bad when Donatella broke down about ignoring her brothers call before he died. Maybe thats why she was so awful towards Antonio? She felt guilt for her own actions, and needed a scapegoat. 

Modesto really was a piece of shit. I mean, it takes a special kind of asshole to make me feel bad for freaking Andrew for five seconds. I admit though, I kind of snickered when he saw his dad on TV, after putting all his hopes into his daddy saving him from his murder spree. Oh Andrew. Your dad is just the asshole your mom said he was, and only cares about you when it suites him. I dont know what happened to him (I fear to google him and have to throw something) but I hope he gained nothing from this whole disaster. 

I was very young when all of this happening (I was seven in 1997) so it was interesting to see it happening here. I remember this time period vaguely, in an auestitic way, but seeing what was actually going on has certainly been interesting. My only wishes for the show was that we had seen more of Gianni and Antonio before death (they had really nice chemistry) and we had seen more of the manhunt to find Andrew. It was apparently big time drama, and it really is crazy how far he got without getting caught, and almost could have made another show itself. All in all, it was a tragic story. You can hate Andrew and murderous rampage, while also feeling some sympathy for a person who was clearly VERY sick in the head, and think that maybe if he hadn't had such a messed up early life, or if he had found someone else who could have shown him a better way, maybe this all could have been avoided. Again, its not a "it was societies fault! And the parents! Its not Andrews fault!" thing, this is clearly still on him, but it is sad to wonder what could have been, and what lives his victims could have had if they had never met Andrew Cunanan. 

[sashayshante]

2 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

This season left me somewhat underwhelmed.  I really feel like they wanted to make this season about homophobia, and sometimes it worked, but other times it fell really flat.  To me, Andrew's killing spree really had little to do with his being gay, so much as he was shown to be a callow, spoiled man who went through life trying to con people into providing him with the lifestyle he thought he deserved, and when that failed, he began killing people.     

Agreed. I felt they could have focused more on the incompetance involved with the case and how homophobia contributed to that. That whole scene with Ronnie was written strictly to tell viewers that homophobia played an integral part in the story. Show, don't tell. Other than the interview scene between Will Chase and Ricky Martin , we really didn't see instances of societal homophobia. The internalized homophobia was covered and then some.

Wish they hadn't glossed over the fact that at the time of his death, Gianni and Donatella were somewhat at odds, enough for him to leave controlling interest of the company to his 14 yr old niece.

[Robert Lynch]

I wonder if Sal Mineo would be the next season of American Crime Story segments for Ryan Murphy. Sal's murder was unfortunate because the killer barely knew who the actor was. I know he is doing the feud series, but I wonder if Ryan can expand to the 1920s of Golden Hollywood scandals/murders. There was a lot of interesting tidbits going on back then.

[vixenbynight]

8 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

From what I've read over at Vulture, the call never occurred.  According to police records, Andrew actually reached out to an unnamed friend, not his father. 

This is something I'm curious about.  My understanding was that Donatella personally disliked Antonio, not because he was gay, but for other reasons that were personal to the two of them. 

I can understand disliking your sibling's significant other. Hell, I don't always get a long with my SIL, but there is no way in hell that I am going to disrespect her and her role in my sibling's life,  much less do it after he has died.

She just totally dismissed him and that he wasn't officially recognized at the funeral.

It was just wrong and I am not even thinking about the money, because Gianni made sure that Antonio was financially provided for the rest of his life.

[Spartan Girl]

4 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

Trials don’t always bring closure.  Add to that the media circus Andrew Cunanan’s trial would have created.  The media would have had a field day digging into Lee, David and Jeffrey's lives.  Andrew would have probably enjoyed a trial and being  the star of the show and Modesto would have racked up whatever profits he could from it.       

The whole point of the story is that there really is no closure for anyone when you kill good people like Lee, David, Jeffrey and Gionni.   

Besides I don’t think there really was a motives besides internalized homophobia, greed and jealousy.  Andrew was vain.  Andrew was lazy.  Andrew was a sociopath .  Sometimes that is enough. 

You're probably right.

I guess in the end that's the point this show made with both seasons: there's no real justice.

That, and cops/FBI are incompetent idiots. 

[truthaboutluv]

Quote

I honestly thought this came just shy to being on par to People vs OJ.   The only thing that was lacking was really not its fault and came down to semantics.  Everyone who was even remotely connected to the OJ trial either wrote a book or went on to fame and fortune.  Sometimes both.  No there is not much not known about the case.  The reverse is true about the Cunanan murders. A lot of what happened is rumor and innuendo which makes for a much harder storytelling.

Still in a lot of ways I enjoyed this more then I enjoyed the OJ story.  I found it all so fascinating and sad because so much was unknown and unknowable.   I wrote off Darren Criss because of Glee.  That might have been a mistake.

All of this. I've said before that to be honest, I think The People vs. OJ Simpson was a little overrated. Were Sterling K. Knight, Sarah Paulson and Courtney B. Vance all amazing, yes. But honestly, I felt like that season petered off in the latter part and I found the finale underwhelming. But ultimately, the lack of source material for this crime as opposed to O.J. Simpson's aside, I feel like the two seasons were different in tone and it's just a matter of what one's preference is. Someone noted above that The People vs. OJ Simpson had a few funny moments mixed in with the drama that helped lighten a heavy series, while this one didn't. Which is true.  And I can definitely see how having so many key characters/players helped make The People vs. OJ Simpson more engaging for viewers. 

But as sad and depressing and creepy as this season was, I liked that it gave voices to all of Andrew's victims, while of course emphasizing Ronnie's point of how no one really cared until he murdered a celebrity. Sure the police in those states were looking for him but it was ridiculous that dude was on America's Most Wanted, on the FBI Most Wanted List and he was casually roaming around for two months in Miami un-bothered. The fact is to the country at large, Andrew's crimes were virtually unknown until he murdered Versace.

So I liked that the show focused on each of these men's lives and stories and the tragedy of their deaths. And as others have noted, I for one never felt like the writers were trying to make me feel sorry for Andrew. I just think they approached it in the "every story has a beginning, including one of a murderous, self absorbed, psychopathic asshole" and this was it. But I never felt sorry for the character. All the series did was re-emphasize Cunanan as a lazy, selfish, entitled narcissist who lived his life believing the world owed him something.

Edited March 25, 2018 by truthaboutluv

[dubbel zout]

When the news reporters kept mispronouncing "Cunanan," I half expected Andrew to shout at the TV with the correct one. He seemed like someone who would be bothered by that.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

10 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

From what I've read over at Vulture, the call never occurred.  According to police records, Andrew actually reached out to an unnamed friend, not his father. 

This is something I'm curious about.  My understanding was that Donatella personally disliked Antonio, not because he was gay, but for other reasons that were personal to the two of them. 

 

I think Donatella saw Antonio as her competition (as perhaps vis-versa) for Gianni's love and attention.  Gianni was seemingly devoted to both of them but I don't think Donatella liked sharing the brother she idolized with anyone else.  Add to that equation that the brother is also wealthy and gave her a place in world of fashion/fame...it becomes clear why she may not have liked sharing Gianni with him.  I get the impression Donatella was Gianni's favorite person until Antonio came along, and then he had two favorite people. 

8 hours ago, sugarbaker design said:

This went way beyond homophobia, Donatella herself said something like "If we had done what we were supposed to do, he wouldn't be dead"  Did Antonio ever have a job besides orchestrating threesomes?

Antonio was a former male model, just like Donatella's (now ex) husband & father of her kids, Paul Beck.  Antonio went on to work as a designer for Versace's Versus line after he stopped modeling (and after Gianni's death, debuted his own separate clothing line).  Antonio was employed by the Versace company for years, as was (and currently is) the man Donatella had married.  They're now divorced, but he still works for Versace (on the business side rather than design side).   I think it's fair to say that Antonio had more responsibilities than just finding guys for threesomes. 

In this case, what was good for the Gander's partner was apparently not good for the Goose's partner....according to "the board" and all.... 

I have not come away from this series with good impressions of Donatella. 

Ricky Martin's dramatic acting broke my heart this episode. I never thought I'd say that. (I'd seen him live on Broadway in Evita and he was phenomenal, but I wasn't expecting his grief to be so moving in this series.)

3 hours ago, sugarbaker design said:

Exactly.  By the end Andrew had morphed into a total monster.  Everyone involved is lucky he killed himself, else his path of destruction would've went on, even from his jail cell.

I agree. Although I can see why some of the victims' families would want to know the exact whys and hows, only Andrew could provide those answers.....but then they'd have to take Andrew's word, so....no answers there. 

I guess at least taxpayers didn't have to pay for a high-profile trial, appeals, and to feed/house/provide healthcare for Andrew in prison for life (or for decades on death row). 

Edited March 22, 2018 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[locomoco]

18 hours ago, TobinAlbers said:

Andrew really must have been done killing because he had clean shots at both the nosy lady on the boat and the old man in the houseboat. Hell, he fired a warning shot with the old man which basically brought the cops to him. I hate to admit it but I did laugh, that old man ducked and rolled with a quickness! He wasn't quite ready for that action.

According to reports, Andrew had fired Jeff Trail's gun only to kill his victims and himself. In reality, the shot the caretaker heard was actually Andrew killing himself, but that would have resulted in less dramatic television - what we saw was Andrew firing a warning shot, which allowed for a much more drawn out stakeout scene at the houseboat.

[Surrealist]

I read Orth's book as I was watching this series. The NY Post had a write up about the finale and its inaccuracies. I noticed that some thought Antonio was completely screwed over, but I didn't remember it that way when I got to the end of the book. Thankfully, the Post addressed that matter:

Quote

Another extremely annoying inaccuracy: Donatella Versace (Penélope Cruz) did not cut her brother’s partner, Antonio D’Amico (Ricky Martin), out of his inheritance, as the show clearly states.

Let’s go back to Orth’s book. “Antonio D’Amico was given approximately $30,000 a month, ‘inflation-proof,’ for life, and the privilege of living in any of Versace’s houses around the world,” she writes. “Antonio, however, told a Canadian newspaper, ‘I’ll never set foot [in those homes] because it would only be fruitless suffering.’ In a further distancing, Donatella and [Versace’s brother] Santo struck a deal with Antonio to take his monthly payments in one lump sum.”

As for the “Valley of the Dolls”-esque scene of Martin swallowing an entire bottle of blue pills, please. Orth reports D’Amico returned to Florence “to launch his own design company.”

The Finale's Inaccuracies

It sounds to me as if Antonio was provided for, but ultimately chose to take a lump sum. 

Now Donatella probably treated him poorly, but it doesn't sound as if Antonio was left twisting in the wind while out on the street. He has his own business and lives with his partner in Northern Italy.

While most of the book, and this story really, is based off speculation, there are indisputable facts that Murphy muddied by making certain scenes over-dramatic. Not to mention adding things to scenes that didn't happen: like Andrew firing a warning shot to alert Michael Ferreira when, in fact, that was Andrew's suicide shot.

Edited March 22, 2018 by Surrealist

[Florinaldo]

On 21/03/2018 at 11:16 PM, fellini said:

It was hilarious when Andrew tried to eat dog food.

Quite a step down from lobster at every meal.   ;-)

According to RM in this short interview summing up the series, it is a fact that AC was reduced to eating the stuff in the houseboat he squatted in. He adds a few other details about the show and his plans in this other article and in this piece also.

It was jarring after a few episodes of a relatively socially functional AC, living as a real person with feelings (even if they were twisted at times), to suddenly get back to how we first met him, as a mostly stone-faced and unfeeling violent killer. Although there were flashes of a real person emerging at times, like when he watched his mother and Lizzie on TV, when he chuckled at his "success", or when he joined the choir while watching the funeral. But he quickly reverted to his unfeeling and impassive persona, for example while watching Marilyn's interview on TV and after confronting his younger self.

For someone who craved fame and being a celebrity, in the end he dies with an audience of just one, watching himself in the mirror.

 

On 21/03/2018 at 11:32 PM, CeeBeeGee said:

I really wish they had committed to showing Cunanan's physical state at the end--the weight gain, the bloat, the dishevelment. Criss is giving a fantastic performance but he's awfully cut and cute for someone who's been on the road and the lam for months now.

It would have been difficult to have him gain weight for the last stage of AC's life, since a TV series has a short shooting schedule and is filiming scenes mostly out of sequence. It can be easier to fit a weight change in a movie because you can schedule the scenes in different blocks over a longer period.

The did try to make him look more haggard and sweaty in those scenes and DC persuadingly played him as impassive and listless (perhaps to try and hide the fact that as you say he looks much better than AC did at that stage), in contrast to the ebullient AC we saw in recent weeks. They even remembered the wound on his leg, which was pointedly featured in close-up in the first episode; you can spot it in a few shots in last night's episode, although we do not get an explanation for it (perhaps another of those bits that got edited out for time, as DC reported in interviews). Police reports mention that AC did have a wound, but on his stomach, and was treating it while in the boathouse; it would have been a visual distraction in the Speedo dancing scene for example which, I just checked, does not even feature the leg wound.

The opera scene made a comeback, still ambiguous as to whether it happened, if it was a metaphor or a hallucination in AC's mind: are we to believe that a technician was waiting in the booth to turn off the lights at just the most dramatic moment? Amusingly, even the two actors are still not quite sure whether it is a fantasy or real.

Is the shot of Donatella crying with smudged mascara suppose to make us feel sorry for how awful she was? It did not work for me, especially in the wake of the self-pitying "I ignored his call" ugly cry, so badly performed by PC.

Ronnie neatly summarised the season's message and the actor did an excellent job with it.

Edited March 24, 2018 by Florinaldo

[Ailianna]

9 hours ago, AttackTurtle said:

I loved how Mrs. Miglin let the officers know how disgusted she was that Cunanan was allowed to evade justice and essentially go on to kill two more people despite having limited means.  

I thought they would’ve given a little more attention to the manhunt as I recall it capturing pretty much the entire country’s attention.

I did empathize with her frustration, since even though they had his name almost from the moment of Lee's murder, they couldn't find him until he killed a celebrity.

I don't have any recollection of the manhunt at all, and didn't even know there was one until I started watching this show.  (And being continually spoiled by people assuming that "everyone knows" all about this case.)

8 hours ago, sugarbaker design said:

So a motive would've given the survivors' closure and not a funeral nor the death of the killer?  There was a sudden death in my family several years ago, and in the ensuing years the concept of closure seems more and more like a myth created by therapists. 

No one delivers irony like Judith Light!  When Marilyn said "It's over." (Like it's ever going to be over.)  and "Why didn't he tell me?" (Good works and secret life) I wept.

 

5 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I get that finding out the motive wouldn't really give the families closure (and I don't blame Marilyn for wanting to keep things quiet) but a trial would have at the very least give them the chance to vent out their hate for what he did to them. Plus, David would have been officially cleared.

I thought Marilyn's relief that "It's over" was part acknowledgment that if the FBI caught Cunanan, it would be only the beginning, with the media and the trial and potentially years in prison and if he were given a death sentence somewhere (given where the crimes were committed, it was possible), then every time they schedule an execution it would all come up again--it would NEVER be over.  The loss is forever, but the public discussion and debate and having it appear in front of you everywhere you go--that didn't have to be forever, and I think with his death, although there are a lot of unanswered questions, that part is less invasive.

 

4 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

 On top of that, it would not be humanly possible to swallow alll of those pills at once. 

Totally possible, if you have a good technique and willpower.  I speak from personal experience.  And none of those were huge--there were a lot but they were all small and so would be easier to swallow.  I don't know if there's any truth to the scene in this story, but it is perfectly plausible.

3 hours ago, Blakeston said:

Re: Andrew taking the stand - if he'd lived, and testified that David went with him because of a) fear and b) a desire to mitigate any further bloodshed, I think it would have meant a lot to David's family. It wouldn't have solved their grief, obviously, but I think it would have eased their burden.

However, would Andrew have testified that way? Would he even have believed that? If things went the way we saw them in this series, Andrew probably convinced himself that David went with him because he loved him unconditionally, in spite of Jeff's murder. And that he ended up going soft, and had to be disposed of.

Even if Andrew knew that David was horrified by the murder, who knows what he actually would have said on the stand. He would have said whatever best served his own twisted, ego-driven purposes.

This is the other part of having a trial--even when your loved one is the victim, there's a lot of mud slinging.  When one of the victims could be blamed for part of what happened with no ability to defend himself or produce any testimony or evidence on his own behalf.  And that would have been painful for David's family too.  Even the autopsy proving he died days before he was found hasn't cleared his name for some people even yet (more the "why didn't he do anything?" types, but still, blaming David for what happened).

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I thought this was a really good season, and I dont think its really fair to compare it to People V. OJ, even though its easy to. Its a very different story, and, while with OJ, we know so much about the trail, and the events surrounding the trail, that we have tons of information and sources to go on, while with this story, we just dont have a lot of answers. We dont know the exact motives of Andrew Cunanan or what exactly happened between him and his victims, and those answers died with Andrew. So a lot of this season was basically guesswork, and for that, I think they did a good job putting the pieces together with what we know happened, mixed with what we can guess happened. 

Actually, I think the truth died with each victim.  Because even if Cunanan were alive today and in prison (or out
 on parole...) and he told us what happened--who could believe anything he said?

[Surrealist]

36 minutes ago, Florinaldo said:

The opera scene made a comeback, still ambiguous as to whether it happened, if it was a metaphor or a hallucination in AC's mind: are we to believe that a technician was waiting in the booth to turn off the lights at just the most dramatic moment? Amusingly, even the two actors are still not quite sure whether it is a fantasy or real.

I rewatched this scene 7 or 8 times. What Gianni said to Andrew about doing great things versus talking about doing great things was on the money.

However, I struggled with this scene because while I know Andrew was a monster, I did feel a twinge of sympathy for him. Obviously this scene is speculative, but I kept thinking about it as if it had really happened. Like this particular moment triggered the evil in him because he was so despondent. This doesn't excuse the fact that he murdered five seemingly wonderful men, but I felt like this moment contained one shred of authenticity Andrew had. Yes, he was lazy and entitled, but it felt like he was awed by Gianni and in that moment, had a glimpse of (maybe) trying to get on the right path to success. These days young people doing internships, apprenticeships, job shadowing, volunteering, etc. I didn't think there was anything insidious about Andrew asking if he could assist Gianni and then when Versace gently let Cunanan down, it was as if there was real pain behind Andrew's eyes.

I know Andrew was a evil serial killer, but when he asks Gianni "Why can't you feel it?" I felt bad. I didn't think he was necessarily looking to be Gianni's boyfriend, even though he tried to awkwardly kiss him, only to be rebuffed. In that moment, despite all of his lies and general assholish behavior, I did kind of feel a little sorry for him. I don't know, maybe, like it was his last shot to do something legitimate and be someone who's authentic. 

I'm glad that a few of you brought up The Talented Mr. Ripley because the aforementioned scene reminded me of the final scene before Tom kills Peter. 

Quote

Tom: I’m going to be stuck in the basement, aren’t I? Aren’t I? And that’s my… terrible… and alone… and dark… and I’ve lied. About who I am, and where I am. And now no one will ever find me.

I found it to be a powerful scene because I had so many mixed emotions. Plus, it was beautifully acted by Darren Criss and Edgar Ramirez.

Edited March 22, 2018 by Surrealist

[Florinaldo]

5 hours ago, Glade said:

The fact that gay marriage is legal doesn't change the culture that still allows people behave this way whenever they can get away with it.

Even partners in straight relationships can be given the shaft by the family and legal heirs if there is no formal will. "Common-law" relationships are not as fully  recognized as some people assume.

From all accounts, GV's will was not the best crafted document from a legal standpoint; he provided for Antonio based on assets he did not own and he left his business to only one of Donatella's children, passing over her sibiling as well as her uncle and mother, which is a recipe for family tensions. Of course, he did not expect to be gunned down and have his life cut short.

4 hours ago, WednesdayAddams said:

Wasn't this to hint at the idea that he had AIDS? That's all I got from it.

It did not look like a Sakosi sarcoma lesion but more like a burn, perhaps from his drug use like crystal meth.

A weakness of the season may be the lack of attention to the manhunt itself; the FBI agent in the first episode is almost a blink-and-you-miss-it cameo for such a recognizable actor.

6 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

 

6 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Too bad this series ended up trying to make audience feel sorry for AC.

I didn't get that at all, but I can see how any explanation of his life might make that possible.

I am also of the opinion that it is not what the series intended. They showed that he was human, with all of the inherent contradictions;  being human is a complex reality and there are few of us who are absolutely good or absolutely evil. the series does a good job at confronting us with this reality, as well as our discomfort with the fact that we may find at times AC to be a sympathetic and likeable person in his younger days.

Edited March 22, 2018 by Florinaldo

[Ailianna]

15 minutes ago, Surrealist said:

murdered four seemingly wonderful men

 

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

The whole point of the story is that there really is no closure for anyone when you kill good people like Lee, David, Jeffrey and Gionni.  

Five people--Jeff, David, Lee, William, Gianni.

[Surrealist]

5 minutes ago, Ailianna said:

 

Five people--Jeff, David, Lee, William, Gianni.

GAH. I had actually typed out "five" before editing it. I always think of Andrew's death as number five, instead of number six. I definitely don't see him as a victim. Thanks!

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

Too bad this series ended up trying to make audience feel sorry for AC.

To clarify my earlier comment, I don't think the entire series was meant to make the audience feel sorry for AC. However, I do think the final episode sort of went that way. Andrew trapped and alone, forced to eat dog food, watching his father pretty much betray him on national TV, seeing his mother taken into custody by law enforcement. Seemed to me all that was an attempt to put AC in a sympathetic light. If the reactions on this forum are any indication, apparently those efforts were wasted.

[Chaos Theory]

25 minutes ago, Florinaldo said:

I am also of the opinion that it is not what the series intended. They showed that he was human, with all of the inherent contradictions;  being human is a complex reality and there are few of us who are absolutely good or absolutely evil. the series does a good job at confronting us with this reality, as well as our discomfort with the fact that we may find at times AC to be a sympathetic and likeable person in his younger days.

I think there is a difference between a show trying to make a character "likeable" and trying to make a character "understandable".   We inherently don't want to understand evil or evil deeds and when bad people show even a little bit of humanity especially on tv people balk and say that the writers are trying to make them likable when it fact they are just trying to keep them human, relatable, and maybe even sympathetic.  That doesn't mean we have to like them.  Just understand why they did what they did.   

In Andrews case he was in alot of ways a product of his upbringing.   And no I am not solely blaming his parents.  However they did play a part.  Especially Modesto who showered Andrew with empty praise and no responsibility.  Andrew grew up expecting to get what he wanted just because he was special and when he didn't he didn't know how to handle the rejection.  He felt is as rejection of his entire being.    Telling Andrew 'no' regardless of the reasons made him feel invisible and for someone who needed to be in the spotlight that was a fate worse then death.   

I also think he might have been a product of his time.  Honestly if he grew up in todays climate I can see him as some sort of reality tv star.  Reality TV was made for a narcissistic personality like his.  However in the 80's he was without money and too lazy to get a job and to proud to be kept for long periods of time.   The one thing I don't understand is how and why things blew up with the guy (and I forget his name now) that he was living with before his killing spree.  That is the one aspect of the story that seems odd to me.  Andrew had everything he wanted but I guess he couldn't swallow his pride or maybe he couldn't accept that he wasn't getting more.   Either way I don't need to like a character to understand them.  As a matter of fact I tend to be better at understanding characters I don't like.  

[txhorns79]

Quote

Another extremely annoying inaccuracy: Donatella Versace (Penélope Cruz) did not cut her brother’s partner, Antonio D’Amico (Ricky Martin), out of his inheritance, as the show clearly states.

Let’s go back to Orth’s book. “Antonio D’Amico was given approximately $30,000 a month, ‘inflation-proof,’ for life, and the privilege of living in any of Versace’s houses around the world,” she writes. “Antonio, however, told a Canadian newspaper, ‘I’ll never set foot [in those homes] because it would only be fruitless suffering.’ In a further distancing, Donatella and [Versace’s brother] Santo struck a deal with Antonio to take his monthly payments in one lump sum.”

As for the “Valley of the Dolls”-esque scene of Martin swallowing an entire bottle of blue pills, please. Orth reports D’Amico returned to Florence “to launch his own design company.”

The fact that show made it appear that he had been fully cut out and essentially left to twist in the wind with nothing because he was Versace's gay partner, and not a legal spouse is kind of disgusting if the actual reality was the opposite of what was portrayed.  It's extremely unfair to the Versace family, as well as Antonio.  This is what I was saying earlier where I thought the show wanted to make a point about what it was to be gay in America during this period, and essentially tried to cram this story into it's thesis, regardless of whether the truth was something entirely different.     

Edited March 23, 2018 by txhorns79

[J.D.]

I'm sad that the series is over.  I think it was very well done.  I wish Cunanan hadn't killed himself.  I would have preferred him alive and in prison.  I think he's a interesting study of the human mind.  True, lots of people murder, but Cunanan's high IQ made me want to know WHY he felt he had to do the things he did.  I would have loved to hear his side of the story, and since Cunanan craved the spot light, his ego would have forced him to tell his story.  I wonder what's become of the rest of Cunanan's family. 

I hope Antonio found happiness, and that he's living his life to the fullest.  He seemed like a loving and devoted partner to Versace.  Too bad Donatella couldn't have helped him out, even if only in the memory of her brother. 

[caracas1914]

I certainly don’t expect that a series like this is going to be accurate to real life, no real life bio ever is.   So  sure,  the series is going to take dramatic creative license, blended in with some real life details.  It happens and the real life persons portrayed are rarely (understandably) happy with results. 

Antonio DA’mico himself is critical of how he was portrayed.

So yeah, all padded in details of how the Versaces callously and blatantly  disregarded Gianni’s will should be taken with a grain of salt.   I’ve been involved in way too many cases where XY has supposedly “robbed” Z out of their portion of a will and it’s not always so cut and dry.  

Anytime a will has terms like “for life” it invariably gets complicated...  What if the company was foundering in red ink, etc, etc, is the reaction others have.  I’ve been there.  

Plus the financial viability of Versace the company continuing without it’s founder was very much in doubt the first year after Versace death and indeed the company hovered on the brink of dissolution/being sold even  five years after Gianni’s demise.  Add the clause of residence for Antonio D’Amico in all the houses owned by the company and NOT  Gianni himself, so yes in most of those type of cases, negotations/settlements do happen.   It’s not automatically the cruel bitch Donatella robbing noble Antonio of his share.  Let’s not forget that some legal experts have said Gianni’s will was a mess and sloppy in many ways, causing more potential rifts than healing.

What happened behind closed doors per the dynamics between  the Verace family and Antonio, hell any family,  recriminations, perceptions, past greviances, slights, etc, etc, and yes, disputed wills aren’t some sort of shocker.

In real life.

Edited March 23, 2018 by caracas1914

[Glade]

56 minutes ago, Florinaldo said:

Even partners in straight relationships can be given the shaft by the family and legal heirs if there is no formal will.

No, partners in straight relationships are not 'given the shaft' in the same way that historically gay people are, where it's more about shoving the deceased and you into the closet and insisting how disgusting, how fake and unreal you and your relationship and your feelings are/were, using homophobia to silence and invalidate and erase you from existence.   Common law marriage often requires that you are publicly presenting yourselves as a couple, which is obviously not possible if one or both of the people in the relationship is in the closet to any extent.  The societal pressures faced by gay people to not openly present themselves to the world and thus qualify as a common law marriage are great indeed, and the burden of having to 'prove' a relationship thus can become insurmountable.  Greedy, malicious straight people often find that latent cultural homophobia works in their favor as a legal strategy, so they openly use it, such as the parasitic niece in the story below:

Quote

“He had 50 years to put Tom’s name on any of these papers,” Ms. DeMaio said. “The will was never a valid will.” Ms. DeMaio suggested that perhaps the two men were just “friends” or “great companions.”https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/24/nyregion/a-brownstone-and-the-bitter-fight-to-inherit-it.html

[txhorns79]

Quote

No, partners in straight relationships are not 'given the shaft' in the same way that historically gay people are, where it's more about shoving the deceased and you into the closet and insisting how disgusting, how fake and unreal you and your relationship and your feelings are/were, using homophobia to silence and invalidate and erase you from existence. 

I think there are plenty of second and third wives who may disagree.  But I'd also say it isn't a competition to decide who has had things worse off.  Hell, think of it this way, Sally Hemming's children with Thomas Jefferson weren't formally acknowledged by the Jefferson family until DNA proved they were related in 1998, nearly two hundred years after the relationship would have occurred.  I am disappointed the show chose to go the way it did with the Antonio storyline. 

[MerBearStare]

Even though I've watched every episode, I didn't realize until this one that Ronnie was played by Max Greenfield (Schmidt from New Girl). He did a great job transforming himself into the character.

I think it was probably for the best that Andrew killed himself. The trial would have inevitably become the Andrew Cunanan Show and he could have especially disparaged David, Jeff, and Lee during the trial. YMMV, of course.

I understand why some think season one was better, but personally I thought this season was better because they had way less material to work with than they did with the OJ trial. We already knew everything about that trial from start to finish, but aside from Gianni Versace and the manhunt after that, I think most people, myself included, didn't know much about the other victims and the timeline of the murders. 

Between this series and the Waco mini-series, I've had my fill of seeing government officials royally fuck up on the job. Hopefully they've learned in the 20-odd years since both of these events. If Ryan Murphy is still at this in 20 years, it'll be interesting to see what stories he creates from things going on right now.

[helenamonster]

I didn't realize there was a standoff with police before Cunanan committed suicide...I'm not sure what I thought happened, maybe that he killed himself and then the owner of the houseboat eventually returned and found him? It was also unclear to me how he was found. The property manager got a call, but from whom? Was it from somebody who knew that the current resident of the houseboat was away and got suspicious when light and music started coming from it (and it must have been loud, if Cunanan had three tvs going at once).

I threw up in my mouth a little bit watching him eating dog food. Technically that stuff is fit for human consumption but it is really, truly, not made for us.

Seeing Lady Di at Versace's funeral knowing that her own funeral would be the next month gave me the heebie jeebies.

I think even if the Versace family had requested that Antonio be included in the homily, the priest would have rejected it. This is the Catholic Church. In Italy. In 1997. There was no Pope Francis asking "Who am I to judge?" I heard an anti-gay homily at the church I grew up in as recently as 2010. It's foul and uncalled for (hate the sin not the sinner my ass), but welcome to Roman Catholicism. They are very much Not Cool with it.

Cunanan (as portrayed) actually expecting Modesto to come for him was delightfully pathetic. Really? That guy?

And entirely fitting...Versace gets a funeral that is broadcast on television. Marilyn receives letters about Lee's generosity. David's father defends his son on tv. Jeff is portrayed as a stand-up military man in the news coverage. And Cunanan is entombed among a hundred others. Forgotten. Ignored. Alone.

[Florinaldo]

1 hour ago, Glade said:

Common law marriage often requires that you are publicly presenting yourselves as a couple, which is obviously not possible if one or both of the people in the relationship is in the closet to any extent. 

No. Even presenting your partner as a spouse in a longtime couple does not give you the legal protection of marriage, except under some collective agreements for specific social benefits for example. In most jurisdictions in North America, unless you are legally married  you are not automatically considered a legitimate heir and can be excluded from medical decisions or funerals and be thrown out of what you thought was your home; it's happened to straight people as well as gay people. Which is one reason why we in the gay community demanded for so long that same-sex marriage be legalised; not only for social recognition and acceptance, but also for legal protection regarding financial and personal matters. But as @txhorns79 rightly says, it is not a contest to establish who suffered the most.

 

33 minutes ago, helenamonster said:

And Cunanan is entombed among a hundred others. Forgotten. Ignored. Alone.

That columbarium sure seemed like it did not receive visitors very frequently; not a single one of those flower holders held anything.

 

2 hours ago, J.D. said:

Too bad Donatella couldn't have helped him out, even if only in the memory of her brother. 

She did say in interviews posted in other threads that they did not get along and that she did not like him. So she would not have had much incentive to overcome the shortcomings of GV's will, as someone who must have had an influential voice on the board, or to go beyond the strict minimum that can be expected in out-of-court settlements that are common for such cases. Showing him attempting suicide was rather excessive in terms of artistic license, especially since there were no updates in the closing credits telling us that he survived and what happened to some of the other people, which is common practice in such recreations of real stories.

2 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

That doesn't mean we have to like them.  Just understand why they did what they did.   

But I think that it is possible in the process of understanding them to not only see their humanity and how it got twisted, but to also find likeable traits in them. We do not have to like them, but it may an inevitable by-product of the complexity of their character and personality. It can generate conflicting feelings in the viewers but it can also make for an interesting intellectual or emotional challenge.

Edited March 23, 2018 by Florinaldo

[caracas1914]

26 minutes ago, Glade said:

No, partners in straight relationships are not 'given the shaft' in the same way that historically gay people are, 

That’s not what the poster said.  He said “Even Partners in straight relationships are given the shaft”. Which is factually true.   

BTW, the case you stated is a bad example, because since NY didn’t recognize common law spouses (straight or gay) and the will only had one signature , a straight couple could be screwed in THAT particular case.

[J.D.]

I guess I just have more compassion than the average person, but to me Donatella should have had lots of incentive to want to help Antonio.  Her personal opinion of him shouldn't have mattered.  All that should have mattered was what her brother would have wanted. And, if Donatella ignoring Gianni's last phone call actually happened and she was a heartbroken over that event as this series portrayed her to be, that alone should have given her enough incentive to try and 'right the wrong' that weighed so heavy on her heart.

[sashayshante]

1 hour ago, J.D. said:

I guess I just have more compassion than the average person, but to me Donatella should have had lots of incentive to want to help Antonio.  Her personal opinion of him shouldn't have mattered.  All that should have mattered was what her brother would have wanted. And, if Donatella ignoring Gianni's last phone call actually happened and she was a heartbroken over that event as this series portrayed her to be, that alone should have given her enough incentive to try and 'right the wrong' that weighed so heavy on her heart.

Having gone through a very nasty probate case that involved a very large estate/properties, one thing I learned was that once that person is dead, very few people care what the deceased would have wanted. That's when all the bitterness and resentment and dysfunction really comes out. Grudges bubble to the surface. Donatella knew what Gianni would have wanted and she didn't care. My gut says she learned Gianni didn't leave her controlling interest and decided to screw Antonio over. In fact, at the time of his death, I'm pretty sure Gianni and Donatella were somewhat estranged.

 

As for the killing spree, it seems that the only true intended victim of all of this was Jeff Trail. Trail was exposing all his lies. Because of the blood spatter found on the door frame (which meant the door to the apartment was open), we know Andrew blitz attacked Trail as soon as he entered, which meant he lured Trail there with the intention of killing him. The rest were just collateral damage as Andrew tried to escape. I simply don't believe Andrew had some life-long obsession with Versace and that's why he killed him. I think by that point, Andrew was in full psychotic break mode.

[bosawks]

I ended up really liking the reverse chronology after, initially, being kind of "meh" on it.  I think it helped mitigating the sympathy you might have felt for Andrew since, by the time we saw his formative years, we had seen him destroy the lives of Jeff, David, and Lee who we had come to care for.

It felt more like acknowledging a monster may be created but at the end of the day it is still a monster.

[lovinbob]

On 3/22/2018 at 12:37 AM, Shadow Wave said:

I think the wistful piano music Andrew was playing on the cassette was George and Ira Gershwin's The Man I Love. "Someday he'll come along/The man I love/And he'll be big and strong/The man I love/And when he comes my way/I'll do my best to make him stay."

Yes, it was a great song choice. Apt and sickening and sad.

14 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

I also think he might have been a product of his time.  Honestly if he grew up in todays climate I can see him as some sort of reality tv star.  Reality TV was made for a narcissistic personality like his.  However in the 80's he was without money and too lazy to get a job and to proud to be kept for long periods of time.   The one thing I don't understand is how and why things blew up with the guy (and I forget his name now) that he was living with before his killing spree.  That is the one aspect of the story that seems odd to me.  Andrew had everything he wanted but I guess he couldn't swallow his pride or maybe he couldn't accept that he wasn't getting more.   Either way I don't need to like a character to understand them.  As a matter of fact I tend to be better at understanding characters I don't like.  

Not to nitpick, but this was the 90s. In the 80s he was a kid, up through high school and early college. 

13 hours ago, J.D. said:

I'm sad that the series is over.  I think it was very well done.  I wish Cunanan hadn't killed himself.  I would have preferred him alive and in prison.  I think he's a interesting study of the human mind.  True, lots of people murder, but Cunanan's high IQ made me want to know WHY he felt he had to do the things he did.  I would have loved to hear his side of the story, and since Cunanan craved the spot light, his ego would have forced him to tell his story.  I wonder what's become of the rest of Cunanan's family. 

Ugh, I am so glad he died. Can you imagine the defense he would have put on for himself? I fear he'd have used his homosexuality and the prejudice gays face/faced, especially then, as justification for his psychopathy, and that would have just added to his crimes. 

12 hours ago, MerBearStare said:

Even though I've watched every episode, I didn't realize until this one that Ronnie was played by Max Greenfield (Schmidt from New Girl). He did a great job transforming himself into the character.

OMG, I knew that actor looked familiar, but I forgot about that after the first episode he was in—he was excellent and devastating. Great work. (Someone upthread mentioned he looks like Freddy Mercury—has he played him? He'd be perfect.)

[Florinaldo]

I should have mentioned in my previous post that I do not think that we can really fully understand AC and his motivations; there are too many pieces of the puzzle missing since we do not have his testimony nor that of his victims regarding what exactly transpired between them and how he moved from entertaining liar to full-blown mythomaniac engaged on a killing spree. Only some of the players, like Norman Blatchford, were still around to be interviewd by police and others. Even there, their memories of AC's personality and behaviour are often contradictory, painting him as a proteiform con man who could adapt himself to what each person expected. It's difficult enough to understand a person close to you whom you know thoroughly, let alone someone who left a fragmentary and unreliable record. Which means must must fill some of those blanks through plausible speculation, as the series did most of the time.

When the home video is released for the series, I hope they include some good bonus material (the OJ one appears to be rather meager as far as bonuses), like all those deleted scenes and beats that were dropped from many episodes according to interviews. It might fill some of the gaps and flesh out what happened to some of the people, like Antonio or AC's mother; her short appearance in this episode was so heartbreaking, as she was portrayed like a small frightened animal pursued by hungry predators (the various TV cameras and flashes).

 

4 hours ago, sashayshante said:

Having gone through a very nasty probate case that involved a very large estate/properties, one thing I learned was that once that person is dead, very few people care what the deceased would have wanted. That's when all the bitterness and resentment and dysfunction really comes out. Grudges bubble to the surface. Donatella knew what Gianni would have wanted and she didn't care. My gut says she learned Gianni didn't leave her controlling interest and decided to screw Antonio over. In fact, at the time of his death, I'm pretty sure Gianni and Donatella were somewhat estranged.

 

I have heard a few horror stories from colleagues and friends of what happened after a death, with people haggling over mere baubles. That's when the knives come out, sometimes literally: I was told of siblings fighting over a set of chef's knives and not even high quality ones, just very average. I consider myself lucky that the two times I played the role of executor there were no conflicts and the most anmoying thing was the bureaucracy involved.

So I have no trouble thinking that DV may well have acted her feelings towards her brother's lover, either actively or by doing nothing to correct the situation or to get him a more generous final settlement.

Edited March 23, 2018 by Florinaldo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

4 minutes ago, Florinaldo said:

I have heard a few horror stories from colleagues and friends of what happened after a death, with people haggling over mere baubles. That's when the knives come out, sometimes literally: I was told of siblings fighting over a set of chef's knives and not even high quality ones, just very average. I consider myself lucky that the two times I played the role of executor there were no conflicts and the most anmoying thing was the bureaucracy involved.

There was a squabble in Mr. EB's family over someone contesting a will. This happened maybe 30-40 years ago and there are some relatives who are still not speaking to each other over it. Since then, everyone in their family has a stipulation in their will that says anyone who contests the will loses anything that was going to be left to them.

In the case of Gianni's will, it was obviously more complicated since he left behind more than some trinkets and baubles, but still. I felt for Antonio because even knowing what was really in Gianni's will (versus what was shown in this episode), Gianni's family essentially said now that Gianni's dead, you aren't part of the family so go away. I know I am very lucky that Mr. EB's family loves me like their own and would not treat me like that. I can't imagine being kicked out of the home you shared and where you had so many memories.

[txhorns79]

Quote

There was a squabble in Mr. EB's family over someone contesting a will. This happened maybe 30-40 years ago and there are some relatives who are still not speaking to each other over it. Since then, everyone in their family has a stipulation in their will that says anyone who contests the will loses anything that was going to be left to them.

I hope you live in a state that will actually enforce that type of clause.  There are some states that will not enforce it.  Though I would also guess if you are to the point where you are challenging the will, you likely did not get a lot to begin with, so it may be worth your while to roll the dice on a court challenge. 

[Blakeston]

16 hours ago, Surrealist said:

I read Orth's book as I was watching this series. The NY Post had a write up about the finale and its inaccuracies. I noticed that some thought Antonio was completely screwed over, but I didn't remember it that way when I got to the end of the book. Thankfully, the Post addressed that matter:

The Finale's Inaccuracies

It sounds to me as if Antonio was provided for, but ultimately chose to take a lump sum. 

Now Donatella probably treated him poorly, but it doesn't sound as if Antonio was left twisting in the wind while out on the street. He has his own business and lives with his partner in Northern Italy.

I believe $30,000 a month was significantly less than Gianni wanted Antonio to receive. I've previously heard that Gianni's will said Antonio was supposed to get $50K per month, but that was negotiated down when the powers that be (like Donatella) didn't want him to get that much.

$30,000 a month - or the lump sum that he preferred - was undoubtedly a ton of money. But it's also got to be a lot less than he would have received if they'd been married (absent a very restrictive pre-nup).

[txhorns79]

Quote

$30,000 a month - or the lump sum that he preferred - was undoubtedly a ton of money. But it's also got to be a lot less than he would have received if they'd been married (absent a very restrictive pre-nup).

Given Gianni purposefully left 45%-50% of Versace to his then 11 year old niece in his will, I don't know if it is safe to presume Antonio would have gotten a lot more had they been married. 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's Previously.TV's EPIC OLD-SCHOOL RECAP of the episode!

American Crime Story Is Out Of Time

It's the end of the line for Andrew Cunanan, but for others, a long sad story is just beginning in our Epic Old-School Recap of the season finale.

[Blakeston]

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

Given Gianni purposefully left 45%-50% of Versace to his then 11 year old niece in his will, I don't know if it is safe to presume Antonio would have gotten a lot more had they been married. 

My understanding is that he made it clear he wanted Antonio to get more than $30K a month.

I think a spouse would generally get at least a quarter of the deceased's estate, which would probably be substantially more than what Antonio got.

[Florinaldo]

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

Given Gianni purposefully left 45%-50% of Versace to his then 11 year old niece in his will, I don't know if it is safe to presume Antonio would have gotten a lot more had they been married. 

A financial interest in a successful multinational design company would probably offer potential for much higher long-term returns than any lump sum payment. But often in settlements, people choose the immediate solution even though it goes against a strictly accounting analysis, simply because it brings matters to an end. Considering how matters are reported to have stood between the family and Antonio, I am not surprised he would have chosen to cut all ties in one fell cash swoop.

[MaggieG]

On 3/22/2018 at 1:32 PM, sugarbaker design said:

I don't know if it was televised live, but it sure was televised.  I was tending bar at the time and it was must see TV.  We were all engrossed with Princess Di consoling Elton.  Of course it would be a short time later that Elton would be performing at Diana's service.

Gosh, that was so eerie, knowing what happens to her. I just realized this but that was probably not a good couple of months for Elton.

Edited March 23, 2018 by MaggieG
spelling

[MaryWebGirl]

17 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

The one thing I don't understand is how and why things blew up with the guy (and I forget his name now) that he was living with before his killing spree.  That is the one aspect of the story that seems odd to me.  Andrew had everything he wanted but I guess he couldn't swallow his pride or maybe he couldn't accept that he wasn't getting more.   Either way I don't need to like a character to understand them.  As a matter of fact I tend to be better at understanding characters I don't like.  

Maybe he wanted to genuinely be loved for who he was and be in a real relationship, hence his pursuit of David. Of course that could never happen because he didn't know who he was.

[sugarbaker design]

2 minutes ago, MaggieG said:

Gosh, that was so eery, knowing what happens to her. I just realized this but that was probably not a good couple of months for Elton.

In the bar we had a pool when Elton was going to break down during his performance of Candle In The Wind at Diana's service.  God bless him and  his English stiff upper lip, he pulled through!

[candall]

On ‎3‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 10:32 PM, CeeBeeGee said:

A stroke of genius to show Marilyn again (and later on, David's father). Keep reminding us of the human toll this monster caused. Fantastic acting by Judith Light--you could see her relax ever so slightly when they said her children were safe.

I can well believe Andrew fell asleep to the lullaby of his own TV coverage.

Ronnie's statement to the police skated right up to the edge of being an apologia for Andrew. Homophobia was an important factor in this but Andrew is one of the biggest homophobes in the series.

I really wish they had committed to showing Cunanan's physical state at the end--the weight gain, the bloat, the dishevelment. Criss is giving a fantastic performance but he's awfully cut and cute for someone who's been on the road and the lam for months now.

Where did Andrew get the money to call overseas?! $.25 for four more minutes, do those rates sound legit? I always used a calling card in those days.

Jesus, Modesto is a monster. 

FUCK YOU, Donatella, for callously turning your back on your brother's lover. And FUCK YOU to the bishop who refused to name Antonio in his homily and who rebuffed him. FUCK YOU HOMOPHOBES. FUCK ALL OF YOU.

Beautiful scene where Andrew was watching the funeral, and fell on his knees, singing along. The patterns of childhood, the music, the rhythms, are powerful.

YES, Marilyn telling us about Lee's good deeds. Remind us again about the victim. Also maybe an interesting reference to his hidden life.

Jesus, dude, is it even possible to swallow that many pills at once? I thought when people OD'ed it was 2-3 at a time, not 15. Did Antonio really try to kill himself?

Andrew's final resting place--he is naught but ashes, in a white drawer, just one of many, nothing special.

 

I have such complicated feelings about this season. I felt I had to keep watching, to honor the victims, to bear witness to their suffering and agony. And a lot of the homophobia on display and that was talked about here, was honestly new to me. Here's where I was in '97--living with a gay man, working with a ton of gay men in musical theater, living in a major East Coast metro area. I was in a big sweet bubble of denial--there was no homophobia in our circle at all and we didn't talk about it that much, except for DADT. I had NO IDEA it was that bad. I remember warning my roommate about Cunanan, saying stay away from the clubs, I'm worried for you. (ironically I went to gay clubs more than he ever did, because the dancing was so excellent there and you knew no one would hit on you. MAN, do I miss the club scene of the late '90s in DC. The Zei Club, Wet, Decades....)

I was, and am, grateful for this board. This was difficult to watch. Thank you for listening to me and to each other. Rest in peace, stalwart Jeffrey, sweet David, kind Lee, decent William, beauty-creating Gianni. Let flights of angels sing thee to thy rest.

I have all nine hours, unwatched, on my DVR.  So I slipped in here to scan the comments and see whether the show was good, or great, or I could reclaim the space. 

This post was such a loving, angry affirmation, it made me cry.

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, sugarbaker design said:

1 hour ago, MaggieG said:

Gosh, that was so eery, knowing what happens to her. I just realized this but that was probably not a good couple of months for Elton.

In the bar we had a pool when Elton was going to break down during his performance of Candle In The Wind at Diana's service.  God bless him and  his English stiff upper lip, he pulled through!

He was really shattered during Versace's funeral. That was where he and Diana reconciled. (She was miffed that he included a picture of her and the boys in a book that included some arty nude shots.) I remember reading that in order to get through singing at her funeral, he told himself to just do it and not to look at the families, especially the boys.

[sugarbaker design]

5 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

That was where he and Diana reconciled. (She was miffed that he included a picture of her and the boys in a book that included some arty nude shots.)

Right!  I knew there was an extra layer of drama on an already dramatic day.