S35.E16: Reunion Special

[ghoulina]

I rooted for Ben all season. Sure, I had my ups and downs with him; he's not always the easiest person to like. And before Lauren committed her big blunder, she was my #1. But I do find Ben very relatable and he was an underdog for a large portion of the game (both pre and post merge) - I can't help but love the underdog. He played hard. He made some smart moves (never telling people about his Idols). So if you had told me I'd be unhappy with a Ben win at the start of the finale, I'd have rolled my eyes at you. 

But this just doesn't feel right to me. I am usually one of the LAST people to call "producer shennanigans", but that fire-starting thing at TC felt like a last minute "save Ben" thing, to me. I wanted Ben to win. But I wanted him to win within the confines of the game. I actually don't mind the idea of the fire-starting challenge. I think it's interesting, and would like to see more "survival" type skills tested out there. If they had announced it from the start and planned to do it from now on, I'd probably be cool with it. But it seemed to come out of nowhere, and just felt like a last-ditch effort to get the desired winner to F3. 

I was super sad to see Ben lose that last IC (especially over an upside down U!), but that's the game. I don't feel like the game got him to F3. 

And, I hate to say, as much as I didn't care for Chrissy all season, I think if I had been on the jury she might have won me over. I thought her final speech was really good and engaging. And she DID have the resume. Like her or not, winning almost half of IIIs is pretty impressive. They both had a shitty social game, IMO, but I tend to think that most people thought Ben was just fighting really hard, and Chrissy's personality was more just who she was. 

I actually didn't mind Ben's "sob story" (as others like to call it), because he didn't lead with that. He kept it short and sweet, and then was told by the jury he needed to give more. I think they basically asked for it, so why not? 

REALLY hated how long this drug out and robbed us of a real "reunion". We didn't get to hear from anyone outside of the final four! Bullshit. 

[amazingracefan]

9 hours ago, Eolivet said:

Devon voted for Ryan because of who he was, not what he did.

While I was ok with Ryan being in the final I really think votes should be based on what people do in the game.

8 hours ago, NeverLate said:

Nah, Chrissy played a good game but she let Ben's game play become personal to her and turned her into a nasty shrew. Yes, he was gruff and off-putting at times but he was always playing hard

I think this is a fair point and a reason for her not winning.

8 hours ago, Wandering Snark said:

But that would cut out the part they like the best which is Probst and the show runners masturbating to their own non-hidden idol: The Game Of Survivor. They seem to love to blow their own horns about how fucking amazing their show is and anyone they can call on to do the same is fine by them.

The reunion was weird, you expect them to talk to members of the cast and we didn't get much at all, I've no idea why the change.

 

The final tribal council was ok though, we had the jury and finalists conversing over different issues and that was a different way of doing things.

[iluvobx]

I am fine with who won.  Once Lauren was gone, then it was Ben.  I am fine with the last twist.   In the beginning, the winner of the final challenge could only pick one person, so why not now?  The third person left had to earn their way to the final 3, it was not given to them.  I am so glad Chrissy didn't win.  

Get used to the final twist, as Jeff said that would be part of it from now on.

I think next season will be a good one,  at least interesting to see what was learned concerning the past idol mistakes.

[ProfCrash]

Ben and Chrissy both played hard, they sucked at the social game . but they played hard. I am fine with a Ben win.

The three hour period was awful. I hated Probst narrating as the show went on. Just show the episode, the vote and then learn how to run a reunion. You find the time to ask each person a question. You don't slobber over one person for an insane amount of time. I expected that they were going to slobber all over Ben whether he won or lost because he is a male and that is what Probst does. A woman wins, polite question from Jeff and then ignore her for the rest of the reunion. A man wins and the rest of the reunion is about him with 30 second snippets of other folks.

The only part of the three hours that I liked was when Probst talked to Mike and Devon after they were voted off. The rest of the audience stuff was stupid and wasted time.

[Daisy]

Just now, ProfCrash said:

Ben and Chrissy both played hard, they sucked at the social game . but they played hard. I am fine with a Ben win.

The three hour period was awful. I hated Probst narrating as the show went on. Just show the episode, the vote and then learn how to run a reunion. You find the time to ask each person a question. You don't slobber over one person for an insane amount of time. I expected that they were going to slobber all over Ben whether he won or lost because he is a male and that is what Probst does. A woman wins, polite question from Jeff and then ignore her for the rest of the reunion. A man wins and the rest of the reunion is about him with 30 second snippets of other folks.

The only part of the three hours that I liked was when Probst talked to Mike and Devon after they were voted off. The rest of the audience stuff was stupid and wasted time.

 

the narrating needs to stop. 
stop pulling me out of my island adventure. i don't care what the audience thinks. geeze. 

[thejuicer]

Somewhere out there Kelly Wentworth is wondering why she didn’t play in a season with this secret advantage because she would be a million dollars richer. 

I like Ben but I feel bad for Chrissy. She set herself up with two of the goatiest goats who ever goated.  Then the show screws her over. 

Edited December 21, 2017 by thejuicer
Wentworth, not Wigglesworth

[ghoulina]

8 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

I hope Jessica realized she threw her game away for a moron.

And maybe Probst could have ASKED her about that, if we'd actually gotten a real reunion segment. 

 

6 hours ago, millennium said:

Probably an unpopular opinion but I don't entirely buy the sob story.   All talk of PTSD stopped cold the instant he started finding idols and became Mr. Shit-Eating-Grin.   He reveled in screwing over everybody else, with no hint of psychological impairment.   PTSD was never mentioned again until the final tribal council where he used it as emotional leverage.

To be fair, it was never SHOWN again. That doesn't mean he didn't talk about it. According to Ben, he had MANY conversations with some of the players about it, and nobody refuted his claim when he said that. Also, I don't want to say that you ever 100% recover from PTSD, but I don't think it's as severe as it was when he first came home. And I also think that being able to hyper-focus on something, like winning this game, makes all the other stuff temporarily get put aside. 

 

1 hour ago, Nashville said:

From what I've been reading, many (most?) people here feel the final twist was unfair simply because the outcome didn't favor their favorites.

Personally speaking, I don't think the validity/invalidity of a twist is proven or disproven based upon the contestants involved.

And to be perfectly honest, I expected Devon to win the firemaking challenge.  :)

Chrissy was NOT my favorite. I wanted BEN to win. And I hated the final twist. It felt cheap and unfair, to me. People are voted out of the game. Fire making is for a tie. That's the way it's always been. I appreciate that Survivor changes things up, but this late in the game? In a way that gives the person clearly favored by production (hey, I favored him too!) another chance? Yes, he still had to WIN that fire making challenge. But he shouldn't have even had another chance! He lost Immunity and that was that. He was supposed to go home. It felt like a desperate attempt to save him and it pissed me off. Largely because it robbed me of being happy with my favorite winning. 

Also, I had a feeling Devon was going to tank when they showed his flint break during practice and him laying down to meditate instead. 

1 hour ago, plurie said:

Sure Ben was "on the bottom" but HE PUT HIMSELF THERE. He HAD an alliance that he screwed over and lied so much that no one could trust him.

All due respect, I don't think that was the case. Ben had a solid thing with Lauren, Ashley, and Devon and was not even thinking about screwing them over. THEY were thinking about screwing HIM over, because they knew he was going to be a hard one to beat. All hell broke loose after they tried to get him out and he WAS on the bottom from then on out. 

[SourK]

Ugh. I felt bad for Ben when he lost the final immunity challenge, but my next thought after that was, "I guess that's the risk you take when your strategy relies on winning immunity to get to the end." I was very disappointed that there was a twist in the game to give him another chance. In general, I don't like the idea of adding a twist right at the end, because I feel like, in order for things to be fair, people need to be able to base their plans on something, even if it's just understanding the basic format of the game. He played better than most of the others in that he could keep a secret and tell a lie, but this was a disappointing season.

[Never Again]

9 hours ago, UncleChuck said:

 

I will prefer to believe that Ben actually found his idols and as a fellow vet, I was rooting for him, but...

 

Thank you for your service, Uncle Chuck.  Grateful beyond words.  Happy holidays!

[backformore]

2 hours ago, BetyBee said:

Survivor is usually a must see for me, but several times this season, I forgot to watch...including the finale - I missed the first hour!  I didn't find it a very compelling season, but I was satisfied with Ben winning.  Maybe if I'd seen more of the season, I would have felt differently, but I'm happy to see a veteran who played really hard and never gave up, become the sole survivor.  

Yeah, I saw it on my DVR last night, and my thought was, the finale already? And I watched some, but not all of it.  This whole season has been kind of a bore.

[ProfCrash]

I firmly believe that all contestants should understand how you make it to final tribal council before the game begins. I felt that way when they changed from a final two to a final three. I felt that way when they decided to go form a final three to a final two. And I feel that way now. Part of the game of Survivor is developing a strategy to get to the end. You cannot build to that if you do not know the end game requirements.

Chrissy got screwed. That was not an advantage. She had done everything she knew to do to get to the point where her final three was set and then there is a new twist that screws up her end game. Production interference is suppose to end after the final five tribal. No more idols, no more advantages. The change was bullshit.

I am fine with Ben winning, he played the game the entire time. He played within the rules. He did what he needed to do. Had he legitimately made it to the final, winning the final immunity challenge, I would be 100% on board with his winning.  But this ridiculous Production interference screwed over the final vote.

The contestants should have known in advance. That they didn't, is bullshit and it taints the winner

[Never Again]

9 hours ago, Pamela said:

With blatant producer manipulation like we saw tonight, it felt more like watching Big Brother than Survivor. (And don't get me wrong -- I love Big Brother. But y'all know what I'm talking about.)

That's what I kept thinking too, this episode feels like Big Brother, though I wanted Ben to win, so I'm happy.  I do believe Ben deserves it and had a strong game, but come on. That was a producer last-minute trick, which ruins BB for me and I hope doesn't start ruining survivor.  

[seacliffsal]

With the ever increasing incorporation of puzzles into the challenges, there is a real advantage for players who are good with puzzles.  It seems like in past seasons there was more of a variety of challenges.  Now, it's go through an obstacle and get to the puzzle.  Many people think hidden immunity idols are advantages to those who are willing to go out and look for them non-stop.  However, the incorporation of puzzles into every challenge (not really, but it feels like it's every challenge) benefits those who are good with puzzles.  Also in the past many have complained that the physical challenges benefited physical players.  There's no way to create a challenge for which every single player will have the same opportunities to win.  That's Survivor.  The challenge for the players is to try to play a well-rounded game and to try to win every challenge or advantage they can whether it plays to their strengths or not.  Chrissy succeeded with the puzzles; Ben succeeded with the hustle.  Neither was the right way or wrong way to advance.

[Fallacy]

The final four challenge wasn't a puzzle though and Chrissy won that one too. 

[amazingracefan]

Keeping up all night to get idols probably hampered Ben in immunities.

[milner]

All those who think the producers manipulated the outcome need to consider a few things.  Maybe there are too many idols, but they were not labelled with Ben's name only, they all could have looked for them.  While he was out hunting, the others were sleeping.  They could have taken shifts and gone hunting as well.  He came very close to winning immunity except for the letter U and given his lack of sleep and not getting fed on rewards as often as others it would have been expected that he would have been too shaky to do well on that challenge.  And thinking of puzzles there were way too many this year in my opinion and that was very much to Chrissy.'s advantage.  The twist at the end allowed Chrissy to take one 'goat' with her for sure and a chance to get rid of Ben with the fire making.  It even allowed her to tell Devon so he could practice and he quit practicing because he got a 'sign'  If Ben had won immunity I have no idea how she would have done on fire making. 

 But in the end it comes down to a vote and 6 of 9 voted for Ben.  So maybe he wasn't as disliked as some people like to believe.  And Devon didn't  even vote for her.  Perhaps he just wanted to be kind to Ryan or maybe he spoiled his 'ballot' cuz he didn't want either of the other two. We all want our favorite to win but when they don't we can't blame TPTB.   Also, I didn't like Chrissy's speech about ALL mom's being heroes.  As in all things, there are some great, some mediocre and some terrible moms.   Declaring herself and all moms heroes was just an attempt to garner votes as was her interest in everyone's lives. Finally, don't 'game' shows have to submit their rules to some group before filming for the very reason to prevent producer manipulation?

  But all the above is  just my opinion afterall.  Lol

[Never Again]

7 hours ago, millennium said:

I also call foul on the "twist" at the end which served no purpose but to screw Chrissy out of her win and give it to Ben.

I'm also not a fan of the twist but I don't see how it "screwed Chrissy out of her win". She was still in F3 and was in position to receive votes and therefore able to win.  

[hyukx3]

2 minutes ago, SourK said:

Ugh. I felt bad for Ben when he lost the final immunity challenge, but my next thought after that was, "I guess that's the risk you take when your strategy relies on winning immunity to get to the end." I was very disappointed that there was a twist in the game to give him another chance. In general, I don't like the idea of adding a twist right at the end, because I feel like, in order for things to be fair, people need to be able to base their plans on something, even if it's just understanding the basic format of the game. He played better than most of the others in that he could keep a secret and tell a lie, but this was a disappointing season.

 

That's not a fair assessment. When everybody is against you, what choices do you have left? He didn't chose to have no alliance. The alliance turned on him and the rest follows suit, since their head won't be on the chopping block.

 

Anyway, like Ryan said, social parlayed into strategy. With that in mind, I have a problem with Joe arguing again with Ben about their arguments on the island. Is Joe too stupid to see that his social game hurt him? He accused Ben of causing chaos when it was him the one causing chaos. He's the one starting arguments. And calling people goats among other crass behavior here and there in little moments.

 

As for Cole wanting Ben to clear his name, he also can't self-examine his own behavior to see how rude and selfish he was.  He put the whole spoon holding the jam into his mouth then put it back in the jar. When he caught a decent size fish, he cooks then eats it alone. I believe that eating is not part of gameplay for some Survivors. It's real. So when you have something, you share it. Because everybody is out there surviving.

 

I think Ben spoke very poorly at final tribal. He may said in response to Cole that it was strategic, but I believe what Ryan said, that social parlayed into strategic. So I believe that Ben was just humoring Cole...and Joe. And that comes off as insincere. If I was in Ben's shoe, I would just call out Cole and reinforce my opinion. If Cole won't give me the million because of it, it just speaks clear about his character.

 

And I forgot about who asked the question, "why you deserve it"? I thought it was outwit, outplay, outlast. Is it American Idol where we gonna listen to their sob story so they deserve the money? Tell me why Tony Vlachos won the million? I thought most of the jury knows what Survivor is about?

[himela]

Sorry was that the reunion of Season 35 or was it a promotion episode for Season 26? Only 4 players got to talk? Random people from the audience got to talk more than the actual players? What the hell is this? It was not a great season but I'd like to see how the lives of the players are now. Why Probst and Co?

[hyukx3]

The season is too short. I think I would prefer 24 Survivors and 52-59 odd days like the Australian Survivor and a final 2 instead of 3. There are only 13 episodes. Maybe because they broadcast 2 seasons in 1 year, it's 26 episodes and that's like 1 season for them.

[millennium]

6 minutes ago, Rbonnie said:

I'm also not a fan of the twist but I don't see how it "screwed Chrissy out of her win". She was still in F3 and was in position to receive votes and therefore able to win.  

If she'd gone to final tribal council with Devon and Ryan, she would have won hands down.   The Powers That Be put their thumbs on the scale to make sure that scenario didn't happen.  

[Rachel RSL]

Quote

I'm also not a fan of the twist but I don't see how it "screwed Chrissy out of her win". She was still in F3 and was in position to receive votes and therefore able to win. 

It screwed her because she was forced to give Ben a chance to stay in the game. She knew she could beat Ryan and Devon and had absolutely no intention of taking Ben to the F3. Yes, it was possible that Ben could have lost the fire making challenge but the fact is that without that stupid "advantage", he never would have even been in the position to win. That challenge never should have happened. Basically, it forced Chrissy to do something that completely went against her strategy and caused her to end up in the F3 with Ben, the one person she absolutely didn't want to be sitting next to.

Edited December 21, 2017 by Rachel RSL

[ghoulina]

19 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

I firmly believe that all contestants should understand how you make it to final tribal council before the game begins. I felt that way when they changed from a final two to a final three. I felt that way when they decided to go form a final three to a final two. And I feel that way now. Part of the game of Survivor is developing a strategy to get to the end. You cannot build to that if you do not know the end game requirements.

THIS. Exactly this! If they want to make F3 be up to a fire challenge, go ahead. Announce it from day one. I don't want to sound like a whiny child, but it's unfair for contestants to put so much work into the game, to have none of that matter at the end. Ben was great at finding Idols, but he painted a target on his back early on and his lost of that final IC sealed his fate. That should have been the end of it. Chrissy had built her F3 well and she had it in the bag. I couldn't stand the woman most of the game, but this was just total BS. 

 

11 minutes ago, Rbonnie said:

I'm also not a fan of the twist but I don't see how it "screwed Chrissy out of her win". She was still in F3 and was in position to receive votes and therefore able to win.  

But you want your F3 to give you the best shot of winning. Chrissy NEVER would have included Ben in her F3. She brought Devon and, especially, Ryan along to the end for a reason. She legitimately beat Ben at the final IC. She did everything she needed to do in order to give herself the BEST chance of winning, not just A chance, and then the rug got pulled out from under her. 

[amazingracefan]

I don't know how anyone can say the end wasn't great tv - it was.

4 minutes ago, millennium said:

If she'd gone to final tribal council with Devon and Ryan, she would have won hands down.   The Powers That Be put their thumbs on the scale to make sure that scenario didn't happen.  

Instead we got more deserving finalists and an exciting end, win win.

[Special K]

I'm not going to comment on the unfairness or producer manipulation, which I believe happened.  I'm just going to say that I think Ben is an arrogant and aggressive asshole, and I wish he hadn't won.  Yes, you can be a veteran whose service is honorable and to be admired and also be an asshole.  Plus I hate when the sob story wins.

[watch2much]

as regard to the twist.  Remember, Ben was on his way to winning the final challenge.....and not just once.  He very well could have won and then Chrissy would have got a chance to make fires.  

Chrissy lost because she's a phony and most everyone saw it.  If she's still unemployed with her credentials, it's by her choice.  unless the potential employers watched the show and realized the personality they would be bringing on board.

[seltzer3]

This season just needs to chill with their twists and advantages.

We have 8 hidden immunity idols (2 Joe, 3 Ben, 1 Ryan, 1 Lauren, 1 Mike) and 2 advantages (Ryan, Jessica) and probably more if I'm forgetting. 

Its become a parody at this point.  Its like as if SNL is doing a skit on Survivor. I mean the reunion a had a clip highlighting every single idol and advantage given to contestants for crying out loud. You would think production would think the overbundance with idols and advantages would be problematic (especially after Cirie). But they actually think the solution is to be more. Seriously the people who think about this needs to be fired.  The game has always been about the social and relationships.  It feels like Probst hates the UTR social winner (hate them or not, they are legitimate winners), and is trying to get rid of them.

 

At this rate, we are going to have a season, where every contestant is going to have a HII.  Maybe they'll do it like a college meal plan, where they all start off with 50 swipes (HII).

Edited December 21, 2017 by seltzer3

[Special K]

6 minutes ago, watch2much said:

Chrissy lost because she's a phony and most everyone saw it.  If she's still unemployed with her credentials, it's by her choice.  unless the potential employers watched the show and realized the personality they would be bringing on board.

Isn't she a Vice President with Prudential or some other financial services giant?

[Rachel RSL]

9 minutes ago, watch2much said:

Remember, Ben was on his way to winning the final challenge.....and not just once.  He very well could have won and then Chrissy would have got a chance to make fires

And it would have been bullshit in that scenario too.

[hyukx3]

4 minutes ago, watch2much said:

as regard to the twist.  Remember, Ben was on his way to winning the final challenge.....and not just once.  He very well could have won and then Chrissy would have got a chance to make fires.  

Chrissy lost because she's a phony and most everyone saw it.  If she's still unemployed with her credentials, it's by her choice.  unless the potential employers watched the show and realized the personality they would be bringing on board.

I agree. I don't see Ben as arrogant. I see Chrissy as a phony.

[amazingracefan]

16 minutes ago, Special K said:

I'm not going to comment on the unfairness or producer manipulation, which I believe happened.  I'm just going to say that I think Ben is an arrogant and aggressive asshole, and I wish he hadn't won.  Yes, you can be a veteran whose service is honorable and to be admired and also be an asshole.  Plus I hate when the sob story wins.

Chrissy has a sob story they were pushing towards the end as well, about how hard it is to be a mother and how she was an example for all mothers.  So we would have had one of those moralising stories with either of them.

[seltzer3]

Isn't Ben a phony as well?  Being completely passive aggressive to Cole.  You know if Chrissy did something like that to Cole, she would get crucified for that.

[hyukx3]

8 minutes ago, seltzer3 said:

Isn't Ben a phony as well?  Being completely passive aggressive to Cole.  You know if Chrissy did something like that to Cole, she would get crucified for that.

On the island or at final tribal? On the island, sure he talked bad about him behind his back, with good reasons, but so what if he act cool in front of him? That's not phony. I guess in real life that would be phony. But in real life, you don't have to be around Cole. On the island, you still gotta play Survivor. That's not phony.

Chrissy on the other hand prepared on every Survivor, knowing at least something about them, but I don't think she sincere about it. See how she acts around you when she wants you gone. To Ben, to Ali, a small degree to Ashley.

Also, I think Cole said just because you know something about me doesn't mean we have a close relationship and Ryan said she was just spewing facts. I don't see her being sincere, especially about Joe. She hated Joe.

Edited December 21, 2017 by hyukx3

[cooksdelight]

I’m glad Ben won. 

Ryan was trying too hard, since he did nothing else all season.

Chrissy was a bitch to too many people. End of story.

[funandfitpt]

I don't understand why people were saying it was an advantage only for Ben. The twist was mentioned before the final immunity challenge, so unless they had different twists depending on who won, then it would have been an advantage for anyone. If Ben had won the immunity challenge then would people being saying it was unfair? Someone still would have had to make fire to get into the final 3. I didn't like the twist, but I don't believe it was a blatant attempt by production to get Ben into the final 3.

[seltzer3]

3 minutes ago, hyukx3 said:

On the island or at final tribal? On the island, sure he talked bad about him behind his back, with good reasons, but so what if he act cool in front of him? That's not phony. I guess in real life that would be phony. But in real life, you don't have to be around Cole. On the island, you still gotta play Survivor. That's not phony.

Chrissy on the other hand prepared on every Survivor, knowing at least something about them, but I don't think she sincere about it. See how she acts around you when she wants you gone. To Ben, to Ali, a small degree to Ashley.

Both.  At FTC, he claimed it was for strategic reasons.  Which it clearly wasn't.  A lot of things Ben did was incredibly petty.  One was where he wanted make a fake idol for Chrissy, because it would be hilarious.  Lauren stated in her ponderosa video, how essentially their alliance had to talk Ben out of it.  I'm not saying Chrissy was all that great (I do tolerate her more, because I understand her field more, and her quirks are something that people can see as very arrogant or fake).  I just feel like Ben gets a total pass for his behavior.

[amazingracefan]

Don't forget Chrissy's glee with her fake idol at the end, which Ben knew was fake.

[ProfCrash]

24 minutes ago, seltzer3 said:

This season just needs to chill with their twists and advantages.

We have 8 hidden immunity idols (2 Joe, 3 Ben, 1 Ryan, 1 Lauren, 1 Mike) and 2 advantages (Ryan, Jessica) and probably more if I'm forgetting. 

Its become a parody at this point.  Its like as if SNL is doing a skit on Survivor. I mean the reunion a had a clip highlighting every single idol and advantage given to contestants for crying out loud. You would think production would think the overbundance with idols and advantages would be problematic (especially after Cirie). But they actually think the solution is to be more. Seriously the people who think about this needs to be fired.  The game has always been about the social and relationships.  It feels like Probst hates the UTR social winner (hate them or not, they are legitimate winners), and is trying to get rid of them.

 

At this rate, we are going to have a season, where every contestant is going to have a HII.  Maybe they'll do it like a college meal plan, where they all start off with 50 swipes (HII).

You missed Lauren's advantage and the final "advantage".

[blackwing]

The "advantage" that Chrissy got should have been much more than simply knowing it was going to be fire making and telling someone so they can practice.  If they were going to call it an advantage it should have come with more than that.  Like maybe she could have given some matches to her choice.  Or better burning wood.  Or something.

As it was, Ryan got a pass to final 3 basically because he sucks at anything physical.  Devon could have practiced more but now he has to live with the fact that he was on the jury and not in final three because he was being perceived as more competent at things than Ryan.

7 minutes ago, amazingracefan said:

Don't forget Chrissy's glee with her fake idol at the end, which Ben knew was fake.

I see that as different.  She wasn't trying to plant a fake idol to make Ben find it and try to use it and have it get thrown in the fire.  He wanted to embarrass her and said so.  She was trying to use it so that Ben would think more than one of them had immunity.  At tribal she was keeping up the pretense to demonstrate that he had been outplayed (obviously he was wrong, but if he had been on the jury it would have been a great item on her resume to bring up, that she tricked him into not looking for an idol).

[hyukx3]

12 minutes ago, seltzer3 said:

Both.  At FTC, he claimed it was for strategic reasons.  Which it clearly wasn't.  A lot of things Ben did was incredibly petty.  One was where he wanted make a fake idol for Chrissy, because it would be hilarious.  Lauren stated in her ponderosa video, how essentially their alliance had to talk Ben out of it.  I'm not saying Chrissy was all that great (I do tolerate her more, because I understand her field more, and her quirks are something that people can see as very arrogant or fake).  I just feel like Ben gets a total pass for his behavior.

well, like I said, Ben wasn't phony on the island. He even talked about it with Cole on the island. He might be lying at final tribal, but he was on trial. Chrissy I believe tried to be personable but I don't believe her. That's the thing. She tried to be someone she's not. Ben is just being Ben.

[Lamb18]

1 hour ago, Rbonnie said:

I'm also not a fan of the twist but I don't see how it "screwed Chrissy out of her win". She was still in F3 and was in position to receive votes and therefore able to win.  

What it screwed Chrissy out of is voting Ben out at Final 4 thus making it easier for her to win.

[ItsJessMe]

1 hour ago, ghoulina said:

All due respect, I don't think that was the case. Ben had a solid thing with Lauren, Ashley, and Devon and was not even thinking about screwing them over. THEY were thinking about screwing HIM over, because they knew he was going to be a hard one to beat. All hell broke loose after they tried to get him out and he WAS on the bottom from then on out. 

This!!!  I never understood why Devon, Ashley and Lauren were so nasty towards Ben when he tried to get them out when they had just been trying to do the same to him.   They were plotting against them, he responded, and then they got all mad at him for breaking the alliance.  Huh??

[ghoulina]

18 minutes ago, funandfitpt said:

I don't understand why people were saying it was an advantage only for Ben. The twist was mentioned before the final immunity challenge, so unless they had different twists depending on who won, then it would have been an advantage for anyone. If Ben had won the immunity challenge then would people being saying it was unfair? Someone still would have had to make fire to get into the final 3. I didn't like the twist, but I don't believe it was a blatant attempt by production to get Ben into the final 3.

Yup. If Ben had won and they pulled this fire-starting BS, I would have been mad as well. They changed how you get to the end at the last minute and it's not cool. I wouldn't put it past production to have several different options for the advantage. There just doesn't seem, to me, a reason to pull this shit out of nowhere except to get him to the end. And I LIKED Ben. But he lost final Immunity, he should have gone home. 

[Special K]

9 minutes ago, hyukx3 said:

well, like I said, Ben wasn't phony on the island. He even talked about it with Cole on the island. He might be lying at final tribal, but he was on trial. Chrissy I believe tried to be personable but I don't believe her. That's the thing. She tried to be someone she's not. Ben is just being Ben.

Actually, in his TH, he did say that he was only humoring Cole when they had that discussion and he still didn't care for him.

Honestly, I think Chrissy, as a woman, was held to a higher standard for "niceness" or personability than Ben was.  Both in the game and on some of the board discussion.  Like it's OK for Ben to be arrogant, petty, mean-spirited, and not bond with people since he played a good hard game.  But Chrissy needed to both play a good hard game AND be everyone's (genuine) BFF and/or Mom figure.  Stinks.

Edited December 21, 2017 by Special K

[hyukx3]

3 minutes ago, ItsJessMe said:

This!!!  I never understood why Devon, Ashley and Lauren were so nasty towards Ben when he tried to get them out when they had just been trying to do the same to him.   They were plotting against them, he responded, and then they got all mad at him for breaking the alliance.  Huh??

I don't think they were nasty to each other. Just a lot of, "well now it's in the open, I'll just openly say that I want you gone."

[SecretSK]

I'm thrilled Ben won. I don't love the producer shenanigans, but their fingerprints were all over the season, not just on this final twist. I didn't love Ben for most of the season, but I'm thrilled he won.  Chrissy was incredibly unlikeable throughout the season, treated people horribly unless she had a use for them, and was smug once she finally had the numbers in her favor to freeze Ben out. I agree the final "advantage" was not a real advantage, but I can see why they want to shake up the final few tribal councils to keep the players on their toes after 30+ seasons. It did not skew in Ben's favor. They showed Devon building a fire easily early in the episode for a reason, IMO. It was fully in his grasp to win that challenge and he choked.

 

Yes, that's unfair on some level, it moves the goal posts for the players, but it didn't screw Chrissy, specifically. I'm pretty confident her smug attitude at the final tribal did her in more than Ben's really awful attempts to win the jury over. She was speaking to them as if she already won and this was a mere formality in her victory lap.  That comment about being a winner they could all be proud to have represent their season was the icing on the cake, for me. 

 

I'm a mom, I'm very impressed by her challenge wins and how far she came through the season. If that were enough, she would have won. Obviously, it wasn't enough.

Edited December 21, 2017 by SecretSK
Typo

[Jeanne222]

Seventeen years of watching survivor and last night I was disappointed.

 

Jeff's talk about last year WE had transgender and this year PTSD.  

 

That is never what this show has been about!  It's been about surviving.

 

Chrissy should have won.  She played the hardest.  A 47 year old woman won the most contests and left with the most friends.  She was able to convince the most people every tribal counsel.

 

I'll never believe Ben found all those idol necklaces fair and square.  No way!

Who knew Ben could whip up a fire so fast?  Devin made most of the campfire fires!

Survivor let me down this season!

[Daisy]

5 minutes ago, Special K said:

Actually, in his TH, he did say that he was only humoring Cole when they had that discussion and he still didn't care for him.

Honestly, I think Chrissy, as a woman, was held to a higher standard for "niceness" or personability than Ben was.  Both in the game and on some of the board discussion.  Like it's OK for Ben to be arrogant, petty, mean-spirited, and not bond with people since he played a good hard game.  But Chrissy needed to both play a good hard game AND be everyone's (genuine) BFF and/or Mom figure.  Stinks.

 

that's how I see it. 
i mean - I hate my people, and I i like my people for a myriad of reasons, but I don't understand why Chrissy. is hated for being smug, or arrogant etc, where Ben basically did the entire thing, including #BenBombs which weren't necessary (imo) and that's fine. there were a lot of things Chrissy said (or Ryan said) during the finale that people had an issue with. and I just found them funny, because imo. at that point of the game I could see myself saying it because I'd be so over it. (which is probably why I'd A: never be on the show for that long, or B: not win). 

There were moments about her game where I thought she was like. .... not seeing the forest for the trees in regards to her behaviour but i find most players tend  to have those moments. I don't understand the Chrissy hate (for a lot of the reasons why people say) but i mean i respect it coz we all have whom we like. but this one really makes me go hmm. 

[ljenkins782]

7 hours ago, MsTree said:

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 Ben didn’t win, IMO, as much as production gave him $1,000,000. Couldn’t they have done that without the production of a whole season? 

Hmm...I'm pretty sure BEN made the fire himself, which got him into the finale of which he WON.

Except that production is the one who put this new "twist" in place that made the fire-making challenge happen. This wasn't a situation of a tied vote, Ben was 100% gone at F4 if they hadn't monkeyed with the system. 

I'm not necessarily on the train of thinking that anything was rigged specifically in Ben's favor, this twist may have been planned before the season started for all I know. But I do think it undermined the game that the others played, particularly Chrissy. They made their alliances, they pulled through to the bitter end and one of them won that final immunity, so they should have had their choice of who to get rid of. 

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Chrissy really needs to stop groping Ben.

I was actually shouting, Get your hands off him! It just went on and on! I thought once the votes were read, she'd settle. but no, more thigh grasping this time! Ye gods!

 

I couldn't take my eyes off that either. Had she been sitting in between Ben and Ryan with a hand on each of them, it wouldn't have looked quite so weird. And yeah, I thought it would stop after the suspense of the vote reading, but nope. 

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And, I hate to say, as much as I didn't care for Chrissy all season, I think if I had been on the jury she might have won me over. I thought her final speech was really good and engaging. And she DID have the resume. Like her or not, winning almost half of IIIs is pretty impressive. They both had a shitty social game, IMO, but I tend to think that most people thought Ben was just fighting really hard, and Chrissy's personality was more just who she was. 

I would say genders played a role in the difference between the way they were viewed. Men who are fiercely competitive and not quite likable get a pass for that behavior far more than women do. 

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REALLY hated how long this drug out and robbed us of a real "reunion". We didn't get to hear from anyone outside of the final four! Bullshit. 

I seriously could not believe the length of that intro last night. I don't think the show started until after 8:15 (was watching on a bit of a delay so I could FF) and there was NOTHING of interest in those 15 minutes. We really needed to have Jeff hiking through the fake forest on the stage blathering on about people watching with their kids? I kind of assumed the next season was going to be another Blood vs Water after all the yammering, but no. So what exactly was the reason for all that crap? 

And then to not to speak to anyone outside of the Final 4 (except to rub Lauren's nose in her mistake), but to randomly quiz audience members that no one cares about?? 

It's like there was a most-hated aspect of the reunions bingo card that Jeff was determined to fill out. The only thing missing was a visit from old Survivors or a random celeb. 

[peachmangosteen]

4 hours ago, Nashville said:

From what I've been reading, many (most?) people here feel the final twist was unfair simply because the outcome didn't favor their favorites.

I mean I have hated Chrissy all season and I think nearly every post I've made has mentioned that and I still think that twist was some utter bullshit, so no that's not the reason.

1 hour ago, Special K said:

Yes, you can be a veteran whose service is honorable and to be admired and also be an asshole.

+1

38 minutes ago, cooksdelight said:

Ryan was trying too hard, since he did nothing else all season.

Ryan was so desperate at FTC. It was half hilarious and half cringe-worthy.