S08.E08: How It's Gotta Be

[SnarkyTart]

9 hours ago, ghoulina said:

Next up - why does it have to be so fucking dark???? I could not see a thing Half the time I had no idea who was doing what.

It's crazy!  Like @AngelaHunter, I already watch this show with CC turned on because the sound mix is so awful I can't understand the dialogue half the time.  Now the lighting is so dark the other half of the time I can't see what's happening anyway.  When you find yourself "watching" a show that you can neither see nor hear, you have to wonder why you're not reading a book instead. 

[Gobi]

12 hours ago, CrashTextDummie said:

With the episode a few hours behind me, I'm able to focus on the lighter, read: sillier parts of it that haven't been discussed much.

Like, remember how Morgan was a sniper keeping an eye on the savior compound? Never mind the fact that it's never established why they have 3 snipers (I'm pretty sure it was 3: north, east, west?) holding down the compound, I'm pretty sure savior people looked out the windows in the previous episodes and didn't get sniped. Clearly they also weren't there to signal the rest of the army in case something unexpected happened. Also never mind why Morgan became a sniper in the first place when last we saw him he had another existential crisis herding prisoners to the Hilltop, not to mention the fact that I don't think we've ever seen him fire a rifle, him being a big fan of sticks and all. So Rick arrives on the scene and the snipers are gone, or rather they don't respond on the walky talky. Where did they go? Did they flee? Did they run to warn the others? Were they killed?

Whatever the case may be, Morgan arrives alive and well at the Kingdom just in time to witness Zeke getting captured by the end of the episode. Since he arrives well after the saviors, I guess he was on foot? After all, why provide one of your abundant cars to the snipers.

At least one of the snipers was killed, Rick found zombies munching on him, and took his radio and rifle. Someone mentioned that the snipers had cars. Why Morgan went to the Kingdom, I do not know. I wasn't even sure it was him.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Gobi

[mrsh]

7 hours ago, FierceCritter said:

Gotta get to work, but wanted to pop in and make a point, sorry if I'm reiterating something that's been said since I last checked posts last night.

But with Carl dying, whether you liked him or not, he was the heart of the show. He was the reason Rick tried to be a good example and lead with mercy and understanding.

Now, he has zero reason to not pull his punches. He can go totally batshit and rip the world to shreds. Judith can end up one of the baddies from Mad Max with Mad Rick as an example.

I wanted the show to at least have heart. It obviously has none.

I will probably find myself watching a few more episodes, and then letting it go. And I never thought I'd hear myself say that.

Oh, and ditto-a-mundo to those who have complained about the bad plans going awry. I'm so sick of that. Sick of nothing ever working right except for the bad guys.

And sick of Daryl being instrumental in deaths and failures. Could have had him be a smart good ol' boy. Nope. Gotta make him a half-cocked, self-important dipshit. They're making me hate him, too. "What stupid thing is Daryl going to do next?"

And finally, someone spoke aloud my thoughts of how this compares to what I hate about Game of Thrones. Never-ending misery, with precious little to celebrate.

Work calls. Ta.

I absolutely agree. The future of this show will probably end up like the crap fest the last season of Sons of Anarchy was. Once they killed off Opie and Tara, Jax went mental and the show got progressively worse. The only good thing is at least SoA was in its final season while TWD is still poised to continue indefinitely.

[Anela]

9 hours ago, ghoulina said:

You ain't lying. I was worried they were going to kill him off, and I have this inexplicable attraction to Austin Amelio. 

 

I have to quote this post, because it is absolute perfection. Every word you said - 100% true. It especially angers me that they killed Carl in some lame stunt where he couldn't fend off a few bumbling walkers. This is the kid that mowed down an entire herd and saved his dad's life!!!

I miss Darabont like you wouldn't believe. What this show started as, and what it is now? Couldn't be further from each other. 

Yeah. I have goosebumps, thinking about that first episode, and also Jim - digging the graves, because he had a dream, and at the end, "I remember my dream now". The relief at being safe at the CDC, only to find that wasn't going to last long (and Daryl trying to break the glass, so that they could get out). 

 

Also, in last night's episode, I thought Negan wanted "the widow", do you were right. What's his name shouldn't have let her go. 

Edited December 11, 2017 by Anela

[millennium]

I did a bad, bad thing.   Instead of watching the marathon leading up to this incomprehensible, protracted fart of an episode, I rewatched the first two seasons, from start all the way through the Rick vs. Shane arc.

The prolonged exposure to good plot, strong characters and dramatic suspense left me ill-equipped to pick through the dung of this "mid-season finale."    I don't understand how the Saviors got out -- did anyone ever say?  All I heard was "Eugene rhubarb rhubarb rhubarb."   The only reason I know Neil's the one who got shot is because Maggie said it.    Where the heck was Rick while Alexandria was being attacked?   He came running in, but from where?   I saw the garbage trucks plowing through a barrier of cars, but then they were never seen again?   Where did they go?  Why is everyone giving Daryl a pass for blatantly disregarding the plan and jeopardizing everything?   Hasn't Daryl learned what happens when you put your personal agenda ahead of common sense?   Maybe Glen can explain it to him.

What is this helicopter folks are discussing above?   I don't think I've seen a helicopter since Season 1. 

I'm starting to think that before you can become a Savior, they subject you to 1000 hours of Quentin Tarantino/Joss Whedon dialogue so that you can bring snarky repartee in both fists.   The Saviors are clearly the most menacing talk show hosts in the universe.   When Simon was monologuing in the road, I ached for the camera to pull back just a teensy bit to show another Savior holding up cue cards.

Carl.   Just when you started to get interesting.     My hatewatcherwank  is that Carl won't die, but instead will serve as an indicator that the virulence of the zombie virus has weakened to the point that it can no longer be transmitted by just a bite.   Rick kneeling beside a cross in the preview was a red herring, IMHO.

[AngelaHunter]

1 hour ago, peach said:

I have finally met someone IRL who thinks Negan is awesome and hilarious and the best character.

I just hope this person is under 17 years old. Or a fanfic writer. Or a dick joke afficionado. Or a grown man who still finds jokes about bodily functions hilarious. No one else who has connected brain cells or even a modicum of good taste should think the Fonz is "awesome."

1 hour ago, peach said:

And that Rick is boring and terrible.  

Well, he is NOW, and add "stupid" and "naive" to that. Writers and Gimple, if that was your aim, you can claim a resounding success.

[nodorothyparker]

I've noticed now on a couple of different outings that fairly young grocery store and convenience store clerks seem to find Negan funny and/or badass.  And they don't seem to care that the show is obviously stretching all of this out waaaay beyond anything that makes any reasonable sense.  Because otherwise it would be over too quickly.  At least that's been my experience in buying milk the morning after episodes in which he appeared. 

[peach]

11 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

I just hope this person is under 17 years old. Or a fanfic writer. Or a dick joke afficionado. Or a grown man who still finds jokes about bodily functions hilarious. No one else who has connected brain cells or even a modicum of good taste should think the Fonz is "awesome."

It was a seemingly normal 40 something man.  I was left speechless, really.
 

 

12 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

Well, he is NOW, and add "stupid" and "naive" to that. Writers and Gimple, if that was your aim, you can claim a resounding success.

True, but that doesn't make Negan good!  lol

 

3 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

I've noticed now on a couple of different outings that fairly young grocery store and convenience store clerks seem to find Negan funny and/or badass.  And they don't seem to care that the show is obviously stretching all of this out waaaay beyond anything that makes any reasonable sense. 

My sons are 18 and 21 and they think this show is garbage and can't believe I still watch it.  And they think the writing for Negan is childish and stupid.  lol  And redundant.  Case in point:  "I hope you got your shittin' pants on..."  okay that's dumb but not that bad... but then he just has to spell it out for you like you're an idiot..."because you're gonna shit your pants."  O RLY?  I couldn't guess that from the whole shittin' pants line.  They hate it.  They moved on to Game of Thrones a long time ago.  And the younger one is into Riverdale, because that's what the kids are into these days.  Certainly not TWD.

[jls1792]

1 hour ago, Ohwell said:

Upon rewatch, I did like how Jadis and the dumpsters just basically said "Fuck it, my name is Bennett and I ain't in it" and just turned around and hightailed it out of there.  I wonder how many survived?  Not that I care.

I did find it odd that when Rick was walking in the tunnel and looking at the sad faces, Ezekiel was the only one who seemed to have a smile on his face.  He looked strange.

I put Enid on my ever-growing list of those who I want to die.  She shot grandma, who was minding her own damn business. 

As someone else said, they were showing everyone, whether they were in the tunnel or not.  

Daryl, Carl, Judith, Tara, Rosita, Dwight, some other Alexandrians and Rick and Michonne were in the tunnel.  Morgan, Gabriel, Eugene, Carol, Ezekiel and Maggie were not in the tunnel, but they were still shown. 

[Ohwell]

7 minutes ago, jls1792 said:

As someone else said, they were showing everyone, whether they were in the tunnel or not.  

Daryl, Carl, Judith, Tara, Rosita, Dwight, some other Alexandrians and Rick and Michonne were in the tunnel.  Morgan, Gabriel, Eugene, Carol, Ezekiel and Maggie were not in the tunnel, but they were still shown. 

Yes, I know.  Gobi gave me an answer about an hour ago and I responded.

[jls1792]

Just now, Ohwell said:

Yes, I know.  Gobi gave me an answer about an hour ago and I responded.

I've only seen a few clips from the episode.  I think Ezekiel was captured by the Saviors, right?  I'm not sure where Morgan, Maggie, and Carol were.  Were they at the Hilltop or out on the road?

[SimoneS]

3 hours ago, Smad said:

Here is a question though. The virus is in everyone but dormant until a person dies. Presumably because the person's immune system fights it constantly and keeps it in check. That's why we don't have healthy, living people turning. People who are bitten/scratched get additional infections due to the zombies being rotten corpses etc.. So the immune system can't fight both the zombie virus and the additional infections and the person dies. But technically there should be a small percentage on earth that is immune to the zombie virus. If Carl were such a person then technically all his body would fight after being bitten is whatever the zombie gave him.

Or did I understand the workings of the virus/bite/scratch wrong?

Kirkman has never gone into the virus' pathology. I doubt that he knows anything about how viruses actually work. However, you are right that there must be a minority of people who have some immunity to the virus. Carl isn't one of them and the show is unlikely to ever have the characters encounter someone with immunity until the last season or episode.

[dwarmed]

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

Quote

I have finally met someone IRL who thinks Negan is awesome and hilarious and the best character.  And that Rick is boring and terrible.  Pretty sad, considering the Rick Grimes who went into Terminus.  

Does his last name rhyme with Dimple?

Or Dirkman?

[stormy weather]

43 minutes ago, Anela said:

Also, in last night's episode, I thought Negan wanted "the widow", do you were right. What's his name shouldn't have let her go. 

That's another of the insanities of this episode where I wanted to go back and check if I had missed something they said or some part of this "box for Neil" deal they got going on, (which of course I didn't do 'cause at this point, honestly, who cares) because why in the world would you pull over one of the three Most Wanted People in Wherever-they-are-at-this-point, GA, confiscate her and everyone else's weapons, threaten to kill one of her allies if she doesn't comply, actually kill one of her friends just because, and then... trust her enough to let them all go back to Hilltop to organize, regroup and, while they're at it, kill a prisoner Savior "just so we're even" without even following them to check out Hilltop, see if they have prisoners, make sure they start plowing and harrowing asap or just, I don't know, keep an eye on them?

[Anela]

49 minutes ago, jls1792 said:

I've only seen a few clips from the episode.  I think Ezekiel was captured by the Saviors, right?  I'm not sure where Morgan, Maggie, and Carol were.  Were they at the Hilltop or out on the road?

 I was wondering if he died, because the actor was on TD, but they wouldn't just leave him grinning and pressed up against a gate, would they? I guess he was captured, unless Morgan saves him. 

[KirkB]

1 hour ago, peach said:

And they think the writing for Negan is childish and stupid.  lol  And redundant.  Case in point:  "I hope you got your shittin' pants on..."

That scene would exemplifies one of the things wrong with Negan. It might have worked if Gabriel had a moment to relax, thinking he's safe and alone, then a voice from the shadows says "I hope you got your shittin' pants on..." Cue Gabriel's terrified face as Negan swaggers out of the shadows, smirks, and the episode ends. But no. Negan needs to explain his own joke. Is that the writers assuming viewers are too stupid, or is Negan deliberately being written as an ignorant teenager who finds himself hilarious? Either way it's annoying, and I like JDM.

Edited December 12, 2017 by KirkB

[FishyJoe]

What was the point of the garbage people other than to demonstrate how stupid Rick & Co. are? 

I don't expect these people to be military geniuses, but anyone who has played Call of Duty could create a better battle plan. Really, the plan revolved around trusting the garbage people, leaving the sanctuary to the walkers unattended, and having all the other areas completely undefended? 

[Dobian]

Gimple needed to kill Carl off so that the show can focus on the characters we love, like Tara and Eugene.  And more Negan.  And garbage pail kids.  Carol and Michonne will be next to go because who likes them?

Edited December 12, 2017 by Dobian

[Save Yourself]

Haven’t had a chance to read through all the post ep comments yet but did read the pre and live ones (wish I could join in but live in Australia!), the couple of pages I’ve read though shows me that we had similar reactions:

• didn’t understand wtf was happening for most of it - I thought my TV was messing up because it was so hard to see anything 

• incredibly boring, I kept checking how long there was left to go, the ep was only about 60 mins, can’t imagine having to watch it stretched out to 1.5 hours due to ads

• those ‘arty’ close up face shots were so stupid and pretentious 

• I had to keep rewatching the very start of it trying to work out the timing based on Rick’s beard because these time jumps have made it so utterly confusing 

• I had NO idea that Carl was bitten, when a few of you speculated that last week I thought you were mad! Sorry about that! ?

• I actually cried when we found out Carl *had* been bitten, I love Carl, he’s so sweet, brave and kind and I feel very sad for Rick. I still care enough about them that it’s heartbreaking. I woke up this morning and remembered and felt sad. Both Carl and Rick deserve better. WE deserve better.

• There was a lot of foreshadowing for Carl but I thought they were red herrings - I was worried Michonne was going to be the one to die 

• I’m angry about Carl dying as, like many people (even the actors), I thought the last season would reveal that this was never Rick’s story but Carl’s -I just don’t see any point at all now to the show, it’s completely nihilistic, there is no hope whatsoever. I don’t see why Rick would want to go on after this, he was only ever pushing on for Carl - he doesn’t have the same connection with Judith, I don’t think because she’s likely Shane’s but just because of the timing of her birth - so why would he keep going? It’s this completely fucked world with no joy at all, nothing to look forward to just more cruelty and hardships and now he doesn’t even have his son to protect and watch grow. I don’t think Michonne makes it worth him wanting to live because he’ll most likely lose her in some horrific way just like most other people he’s loved. I don’t want to see Rick so broken by losing Carl, this show is already depressing enough, now they’ve taken one little glimmer of hope that he might some sort of peace and happiness

• I hate, hate, hate Scott Gimple, he’s an absolute no talent arrogant idiot with no nuance, no understanding of his audience and no respect for the fans of this show. I don’t think I’ll over get over HBO passing on TWD, imagine what a show it could have been with a decent budget and a talented showrunner 

Edited December 12, 2017 by Save Yourself
My phone sucks

[oakville]

6 hours ago, jcin617 said:

You wouldn’t put it past the writers to have Carl eventually recover?   Somehow his immune system fights it off?   I totally assume he’s a goner but still I wouldn’t be surprised.  

Haven't they filmed the next 8 episodes? Would Gimple respond to a fan backlash about killing Carl. ?

[TigerLynx]

If they wanted so desperately to keep Negan around, there were ways to do it without screwing up the entire show.  I believe Negan when he says he likes Carl, and wishes he had a son just like him.  None of Negan's followers will ever be like Carl, Michonne, Carol, Glen, Maggie, etc. because they are only part of Negan's group out of fear or possibility of reward.  Like the workers said, they put up with Negan and his henchmen and work for them for protection.  Rick's group will kill for each other, but they will also die for each other.  They could have had Negan do something to save Judith or Carl leaving Rick in the uncomfortable position of wanting Negan dead, but knowing he saved his baby daughter and his son.  Killing Carl was just dumb.

[Dodginblue]

I haven't watched this episode yet, I am just not in the mood, maybe I never will be.  Anyway Chandler Riggs isn't being shy about speaking out as to what happened, being told he would be on for another 3 seasons, went ahead and planned his life around that and then was killed off.   His Dad has said some things as well.    I checked IMDB and he's been cast in a movie with Josh Hartnett and Bruce Dern, something called Inherit the Viper.  Looks like he has one of the lead roles.    Maybe he should be thankful he's off TWD now, it's gotten so bad.   

My favorite Carl episode:  the one where he wanted to get the picture of their Mom for Judith off the wall of that bar and Michonne helped him, it's when they first started to bond.     

[heisenberg]

2 hours ago, Gobi said:

At least one of the snipers was killed, Rick found zombies munching on him, and took his radio and rifle. Someone mentioned that the snipers had cars. Why Morgan went to the Kingdom, I don't not know. I wasn't even sure it was him.

At first I misread "Someone mentioned that the walkers had cars."...  Up to that point on this show it could be the next step.  Meh... Who knows..

Edited December 12, 2017 by heisenberg

[ShadowSixx]

My favorite Carl moments was when Michonne arrived on horseback and brought Carl back a comic and she headed out again and Carl asked her, "You're leaving?" cause he didn't want her to leave. Another was after Carl's eye was shot out and Michonne kissed him on the forehead and the bet they had while walking on the rails on the railroad track. I have more Carl & Michonne moments more than Carl & Rick.

[Dodginblue]

5 minutes ago, ShadowSixx said:

My favorite Carl moments was when Michonne arrived on horseback and brought Carl back a comic and she headed out again and Carl asked her, "You're leaving?" cause he didn't want her to leave. Another was after Carl's eye was shot out and Michonne kissed him on the forehead and the bet they had while walking on the rails on the railroad track. I have more Carl & Michonne moments more than Carl & Rick.

Another of my favorite moments is after the prison fell and everyone scattered and Rick and Carl are holed up in that house sitting on the floor with their back to the door and somebody knocks, startling them and then Rick goes to the door, sees that it's Michonne and turns around and says to Carl, with joy in his voice, "It's for you".

[AllyS]

3 hours ago, SnarkyTart said:

It's crazy!  Like @AngelaHunter, I already watch this show with CC turned on because the sound mix is so awful I can't understand the dialogue half the time.  Now the lighting is so dark the other half of the time I can't see what's happening anyway.  When you find yourself "watching" a show that you can neither see nor hear, you have to wonder why you're not reading a book instead. 

At this point, they should have ALL the characters writing there lines on neon posterboards, kinda like Andrew Lincoln in "Love,Actually". The neon posterboards would be highlighted in the darkness. 

[FierceCritter]

I have to say, even though I post far from regularly here, I'm really glad to be able to commiserate with like-minded people about this show. Even those who feel differently than I do. It's made it a little easier to deal with it when the show really falters.

Group hug.

[Dodginblue]

I should have included in my earlier posts that I realize Carl isn't actually dead yet and, out of respect for everyone else here, I didn't mean to get ahead of where the show is.      There's probably another place I should have posted about Chandler Riggs' reaction to what's happened, so sorry about that.  

P.S.  Based on what I'm reading on Twitter Scott Gimple better be holed up in a secret location somewhere.  Maybe  in the sewer pipe under his house.

[AllyS]

I haven't commented on Carl's death yet. To me he was the heart and soul of the show, what all of them fought for...the future. I am a comic book reader and won't elaborate, but soooo many missed and lost storylines.

It is shameful that Pimple told him he had at least 3 years, he (at 18! buys a house and plans on college, because they always worked with him) but 2 fracking weeks before is 18th birthday....hence emancipation, legal adult, they fire him for a plot driven point. Especially one that comes from left of center.

Kirkman says he uses the comics for canon, then Pimple says he extrapolates on this. This whole thing is BS, I can't see how this series can move seriously forward after they stuck to the canon of the comics (minus Daryl existing and the GPK), they went off the rails, not just "jumped the shark", that's to easy of a cop out.

And Ezekiel, well I have no words, lest I go to the Comic Book thread and I can give 2 figs to post all over again.

I do not hate watch, I watch with my daughter while online in Ann Arbor. It has been "our favorite" show, me text together and then critique later in the week.  We'l both continue to watch, but half hardheartedly.

[Smad]

2 hours ago, FishyJoe said:

What was the point of the garbage people other than to demonstrate how stupid Rick & Co. are? 

I don't expect these people to be military geniuses, but anyone who has played Call of Duty could create a better battle plan. Really, the plan revolved around trusting the garbage people, leaving the sanctuary to the walkers unattended, and having all the other areas completely undefended? 

The garbage people just turning and running right when they notice the Sanctuary isn't what it was in Rick's photographs, aka surrounded by walkers, makes the previous episode of Rick putting himself in danger, put in a box and fighting to the death just that much more redundant. So what was the freaking point of wasting all that time on the garbage people in the previous episode? It ws a waste of freaking time because it lead nowhere.

Rick at the beginning was contacting posts I think. He said 'north, west, south' into the walkie. Whether that means they were posted right outside the Sanctuary or on the roads out of that place I have no idea. But either way, stupidity is the way to go on TWD. We've had Seasons that proved that. I mean these people collectively couldn't come up with a way to make the prison more secure. While we had the Governor securing a whole town and Morgan (by himself) made part of a town a completely death trap. I firmly believe that being in the vicinity of Rick Grimes makes people stupid.

[FierceCritter]

31 minutes ago, Smad said:

 

Quote

SMAD: I firmly believe that being in the vicinity of Rick Grimes makes people stupid.

I love Rick. I hate all the failures they write for him.

Edited December 12, 2017 by FierceCritter
Quoting is sometimes as hard as mathing for me.

[rmontro]

Now that I've had a day to digest this, I have to say that I am angry and disgusted.  Most of that ire is directed at Gimple.  I am not a huge fan of Carl by any means, but Gimple is spitting on the whole premise of the source material by going into business for himself and deciding to kill off Carl.  If anything, The Waking Dead was supposed to be his story, and he was supposed to survive and represent the future.

I have resisted all those posters who have talked about how this show has jumped the shark, and I have continued to anticipate new episodes.  But I think at this point, I have to join those posters.  This is the jump the shark moment, it betrays the premise, and it was all presented on a screen so dark you could barely see what was going on.  Small wonder viewers have been so confused.

Gimple acts like he is making high art that is above reproach (top secret high art, at that).  He referred to the Clarks from Fear the Walking Dead as "the family that we love" when they are the biggest bunch of unlikable characters on TV.  I'll continue to watch, at least for now, but this show has lost me.

[AwesomO4000]

5 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

I just hope this person is under 17 years old. Or a fanfic writer. Or a dick joke afficionado.

Not necessarily. I have an inner 12 year old. She enjoys a good dick joke. These are not those.*** It also doesn't help that Negan is not a character I remotely enjoy.

*** Season 7 of Supernatural had a main bad guy called Dick Roman, and there were dick jokes aplenty. (Even in show news headlines: "The Rise of Dick"). I enjoyed them all. It also helped that I found Dick Roman to be an awesome kind of villain who would find Negan completely gauche and unworthy of his time.

[mightysparrow]

3 hours ago, Dodginblue said:

Another of my favorite moments is after the prison fell and everyone scattered and Rick and Carl are holed up in that house sitting on the floor with their back to the door and somebody knocks, startling them and then Rick goes to the door, sees that it's Michonne and turns around and says to Carl, with joy in his voice, "It's for you".

That's one of my favourite moments too.  Ever since Michonne got with Rick, she and Carl haven't spent much time together, but the REAL relationship has always been Carl and Michonne.  Rick said 'it's for you' because he knew how close they were and that even though Michonne would be happy to see him, she would be OVERJOYED to see Carl.

I just don't know how Michonne is going to handle Carl's dying.  As far as we know, he's the only one who knows about the Peanut.  They pledged that if either one was bitten, the other would end the bitten one's life, because that's what you do for someone you love.  How will she be able to bear losing another child?  Maggie forgave Daryl (even though his impulsiveness gave Negan the excuse to kill Glenn, Negan is the one who is responsible for Glenn's death) but I don't know how Michonne will be able to forgive him.  His going against the plan gave Negan and his Grand Army the chance to escape and destroy Alexandria.  Now Carl has to die in a sewer tunnel. 

But why should I worry?  Gimple doesn't give a fuck about Michonne, so why would he take time away from a Negan monologue to spend it on Michonne and her grief?

[AngelaHunter]

1 hour ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Not necessarily. I have an inner 12 year old.

Oh, so do I. My taste is humour is not of the high brow sort. I adore nonsense and silliness, no matter how vulgar (even fart jokes. Check out "Bargearse" on YT. I howled)  - when it's funny or clever. And nope, Negan is neither of those. He's just silly, repetitive and tedious with no redeeming qualities at all.

[Anela]

3 hours ago, AllyS said:

At this point, they should have ALL the characters writing there lines on neon posterboards, kinda like Andrew Lincoln in "Love,Actually". The neon posterboards would be highlighted in the darkness. 

"Negan...

on this Christmas...

I promise everyone that...

I'm gonna kill you."

only that wouldn't work, if they're determined to keep him alive. 

17 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

Oh, so do I. My taste is humour is not of the high brow sort. I adore nonsense and silliness, no matter how vulgar (even fart jokes. Check out "Bargearse" on YT. I howled)  - when it's funny or clever. And nope, Negan is neither of those. He's just silly, repetitive and tedious with no redeeming qualities at all.

Just the word "Uranus" gets me. I don't Negan, though.

I know a couple of guys who love Negan. The first one I'm surprised by. The second one, not so much, and he's over fifty now, I think. I'm not sure. He fan girls over a lot of things I don't understand, though. 

[Smad]

41 minutes ago, mightysparrow said:

That's one of my favourite moments too.  Ever since Michonne got with Rick, she and Carl haven't spent much time together, but the REAL relationship has always been Carl and Michonne.  Rick said 'it's for you' because he knew how close they were and that even though Michonne would be happy to see him, she would be OVERJOYED to see Carl.

I just don't know how Michonne is going to handle Carl's dying.  As far as we know, he's the only one who knows about the Peanut.  They pledged that if either one was bitten, the other would end the bitten one's life, because that's what you do for someone you love.  How will she be able to bear losing another child?  Maggie forgave Daryl (even though his impulsiveness gave Negan the excuse to kill Glenn, Negan is the one who is responsible for Glenn's death) but I don't know how Michonne will be able to forgive him.  His going against the plan gave Negan and his Grand Army the chance to escape and destroy Alexandria.  Now Carl has to die in a sewer tunnel. 

But why should I worry?  Gimple doesn't give a fuck about Michonne, so why would he take time away from a Negan monologue to spend it on Michonne and her grief?

I'm wondering how much she is going to blame herself for leaving Alexandria with Rosita. These people should know by now that Carl sneaks away as soon as your back is turned. You leave him completely unsupervised and it gets even worse. It sort of mirrors how her child died, except worse. She left her child with her bf and friend to go on a run and when she came back...well we all remember that story. But this time she left 'her child' for no good reason and he got bitten.

Of course all of that depends on whether Gimple and the writers even remember she had a child once...

[FortKnox]

Just a reminder people, they're not in Georgia, they're in Virginia and have been for the last few seasons. Remember them going to DC because Eugene had a cure?

Not that matters. Hell why not show DC or politicians, secret service, etc?

[Nashville]

On 12/10/2017 at 9:57 PM, ShadowSixx said:

Goodness Enid shoot the very person you're trying to get on your side. You might be doomed.

I am totally NOT on board with the "stupid Enid" bandwagon.  Neither Enid nor Aaron knew exactly where Oceanside was; they were going off Tara's directions, so I sincerely doubt they planned to park in the dark within a patrol perimeter.  And what the hell was Enid supposed to do - let whoever was fixing to bash in Aaron's skull go ahead and do the deed, on the off-chance the basher is somebody they don't want to offend?  

The Scepter of Stupid in this scenario goes not to Enid, but to the Bitchy Old Lady who thinks she has a God-given right to just walk up and kill anybody she pleases - and if the rest of the Oceansiders are so brain-wrecked as to think defending oneself from such an aggressive unprovoked attack is somehow horrible and wrong, then they get the Flying Fickle Finger of Fate runner-up prize.  Feh.

 

On 12/10/2017 at 10:21 PM, oakville said:

I am watching Talking Dead & Gimple still won't explain what Eugene's plan was. This is very annoying.

I thought it obvious from Gimp's evasive behavior; Eugene's brilliant counteroffensive to save the Saviors will be flashback-covered in the MSP, so Gimp isn't going to spoil it.

Assuming, of course, we're still watching by then.  And I for one am seriously pondering whether or not that's a given.

 

12 hours ago, Gobi said:

"And yet I smile."

My thought exactly.

-----------------------------

And now a few thoughts of my own:

• Dear Production: so much for "returning to the canon" of the graphic novel source.  Fuck you, hypocrites.
• I'm seriously wondering if this is signaling the beginning of the end for the series - if Season 8 or 9 might be its intended closeout.  Even if it wasn't intended to be, that may just well end up being the case thanks to Gimp's hamfisted machinations.  It would be funny, wouldn't it, if this particular showrunner killed AMC's most popular current series, wouldn't it?  Gimp would be lucky to get work afterwards doing dog food commercials.
• The thought this once-proud television powerhouse's last surviving remnant would be FTWD fills me with sadness - and more than a little throw-up in my mouth.

[BetyBee]

I've been hearing that Fear the Walking Dead has gotten much better (I don't watch).  That show is not based on a comic.  I suspect that the showrunners for WD are leaving the comics behind in their quest to write their own story too.  One problem with that plan is that they are not good writers.

Edited December 12, 2017 by BetyBee

[jcin617]

14 hours ago, millennium said:

What is this helicopter folks are discussing above?   I don't think I've seen a helicopter since Season 1. 

Rick saw a helicopter fly by overhead when he has on his way to visit trash dump people three episodes ago.

[luna1122]

I sadly know several people in real life who think Negan is awesome. One is a guy in his 50s...who looks a little like JDM, rides a bike, leather jacket. He's constantly posting on FB about random girls and women stopping him in coffee shops and bars and calling him Negan and he takes it as the HIGHEST compliment. maybe he is high.

I also know several women who say they love Negan when, I THINK what they mean is they love JDM. I hope. I don't even like JDM, as I've never really seen much of anything else he's ever done, and Negan is such a fail of a character that I'm not impressed by him in any way. He's probably attractive and might be the nicest, coolest man in the world in real life, but I am not sure I'd ever be able to admit or see that. He's ruined this show for me.

I still feel shockingly sad about Carl, and even more about Chandler, which is probably silly. He'll be fine. I just feel bad for the kid. He thought he had a family and security and Scott Gimple kicked his ass out as soon as hit legal adulthood. Welcome to being an adult, kid. I don't honestly know how great an actor he is beyond Carl, but I wish him well.

[BellyLaughter]

Just curious, would Chandler Riggs have been up for a serious payrise as he turned 18? I thought it was interesting that his father used the words “2 weeks before his 18th birthday” in the answer he gave on Facebook... it seemed awfully specific. 

I just can’t buy this was a decision based on “creative” choices.... mind you this show has been vomiting dumb creative decisions for a while now....

[HighMaintenance]

14 hours ago, millennium said:

I'm starting to think that before you can become a Savior, they subject you to 1000 hours of Quentin Tarantino/Joss Whedon dialogue so that you can bring snarky repartee in both fists.   The Saviors are clearly the most menacing talk show hosts in the universe.   When Simon was monologuing in the road, I ached for the camera to pull back just a teensy bit to show another Savior holding up cue cards.

LOVE THIS!

[Tvfangirl]

On 12/10/2017 at 10:18 PM, catrox14 said:

I meant from the pilot. Sorry for the confusion. I should edit my comment. Well I guess Morgan but he left and came back.

Maybe not..maybe they it will be some Groundhog thing and it will be the same day forever. 

[TigerLynx]

If they really wanted to be free of the Saviors, and just couldn't bring themselves to blow them all up when they were penned in at the main Savior compound, they could have packed everyone up and left town.  They might not have wanted to leave Alexandria, the Kingdom and the Hilltop behind, but since they weren't willing to go the distance and do what was necessary to take out all the Saviors, they would have been better off to get as far away as possible.

I thought most of the Alexandrian's headed for the Hilltop, and it was only a small group that stayed behind for the ambush on the group with Dwight.  I thought they were 1) buying the other people time to get away, and 2) trying to kill anyone who followed them while Carl was setting off the smoke grenades in Alexandria to distract the Saviors.

[Persnickety1]

On 12/10/2017 at 8:21 PM, oakville said:

I am watching Talking Dead & Gimple still won't explain what Eugene's plan was. This is very annoying.

Gimple is a furtive-eyed rat-faced piece of rancid shit.  

This episode....

Okay, so Carl is being killed off.  I was okay with this when I thought the kid wanted out of the show to pursue his education or other acting opportunities.

Then to find out that rat-faced weasel blindsided the kid and apparently arbitrarily just decided to kill him off around episode 6?  GTFO.

I find it extremely difficult to buy into Gimple's fuckery about needing to kill Carl to progress the storylines for Rick and Michonne.  Nope.  Had killing off Carl been a long-range plan, I highly (HIGHLY) doubt that he would have waited until the episode where Carl is actually bitten to give Riggs a heads up.  All of the other cast members knew in advance when their time was coming, so his half-assed explanation does not compute in my brain.  It's like Judge Judy says...if it doesn't make sense, it's a lie.  

So, just why was Riggs unceremoniously dumped from the show?  Maybe there was a clause in his contract that his salary would increase once he turned of legal age?  Did Gimple decide Riggs didn't have the acting chops to carry off the storyline as depicted in the comics and decide to cut the character?  Did AMC decide they couldn't afford an adult Riggs since they reportedly just gave Lincoln and Reedus sizable salary increases (and AMC is notoriously cheap, so I can't help but think this was in the end a financial maneuver rather than a storyline driven decision).

Riggs and his father were apparently led to believe by Gimple/AMC that Carl was going to be around three more years.  Yeah, something smells like bullshit about this clusterfuck.

The fact that this kid gave nearly half of his life to this show and then being treated like this by Gimple/AMC really just pisses me off, and I loathed the little shit up until about mid way through season 3.

As for the episode in general, why the fresh hell did Simon allow Maggie to make a choice?  Wasn't there a bounty on her head by Negan, along with Rick and Ezekiel?  Here again, this makes no sense.  And who the fuck was that dude Maggie chose to shoot?  He tried to kill Jesus?  Hell, I spent two episodes wanting to kill Jesus.  I didn't even remember the guy or the situation when he was chosen...and with that repugnant Jared standing right in that vicinity, a threat to all of them.  Well, at least she nutted up and shot the dude.  That was a split second of entertainment.  

And speaking of Maggie, could somebody on that set PLEASE get LC to a diction coach?  Her over-enunciation of every single word combined with her horrific fake southern accent is positively cringeworthy.  I can't even take anything the character does too seriously because I'm so disconcerted by her "technique."  

I really wanted Father Gabriel to die, turn, and then go rip out Eugene's throat.   If they're going to kill off Gabriel, at least let him put Eugene out of his misery on his way out.  

I'm hoping Daryl and Tara take off in search of supplies....and never return.  

And how is it Rick can't seem to kill Negan, no matter what the circumstances?  It's like Negan is coated with Rick repellant or that leather jacket has some sort of force field surrounding it that doesn't let any harm befall him.  Just stop putting Rick in situations where he easily could/should be able to kill Negan. 

I understand storyline dictates that Negan will survive another season or two, but then again that theory didn't work out too well for Carl, so...

Darabont may be batshit crazy and have no respect for budgets, but damn if I wouldn't love to see what this show would be like today with him still on board.  

I think this show is going to have abysmal ratings after the MSP, and maybe that will be the catalyst for AMC to kick Gimple to the curb.  

Edited December 12, 2017 by Persnickety1

[Persnickety1]

On 12/10/2017 at 9:26 PM, Kiki777 said:

Gimple's a shady-lookin dude.  Did anyone catch him on Talking Dead, all jittery and shifty-eyed and not admitting exactly when Carl got bit even though it was on an episode that ALREADY AIRED?  Wtf is wrong with this man?

And how about his befuddlement that fans didn't REALIZE when Carl was bitten?

Yeah, I saw the scene and, yeah, I thought "Oh, shit, Carl got bit!," but then...well, no mention was made of it and this show has some pretty craptastic editing at times, so I wrote it off to a poorly edited/choreographed scene.  I'm sure I'm not the only one who did the same thing.

So, Gimple, go fuck yourself.  NOTHING was clear about that scene and it was intentionally choreographed to be vague.  Don't act like the fans are too ignorant to appreciate the wonders of your self-perceived brilliance.  

[Dobian]

If Carl is really done for then so is this show.  This isn't simply about a major character dying but about maybe THE major character dying because he is supposed to be the future of this world.  Instead, Gimple has turned TWD into the Cult of Rick, going to extremes to turn him into this superhero which actually backfires and makes both Rick and the show more ridiculous every season.  He's become the Frank Sinatra of the ZA, it's Rick's world and everyone else just lives in it.  Who cares about the young up-and-coming leader who would guide humanity into the future like Alexander the Great when you have Rick and his six shooter?  Rick will rule all from atop a mountain of trash with his new wife Jadis standing by his side and a cgi sunset behind them as they speak their decrees in the new language of the land.

[Raven1707]

I won't have a chance to catch up to the thread till later this week, but the Sunday Cable ratings are in for Episode 808, "How It's Gotta Be":

The final “Walking Dead” episode of 2017 improved a little bit in the ratings, but the first half of the season is still way down from last year.

Sunday’s episode drew a 3.4 rating in adults 18-49 and 7.89 million viewers, up from 3.3 and 7.47 million the previous week. The first half of Season 8 as a whole averaged 3.8 in the 18-49 demographic, down 33 percent from 5.7 for the same time frame last year. [7.885 million viewers]

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/daily-ratings/sunday-cable-ratings-dec-10-2017/

10-22-17 “Mercy” 11.439 million
10-29-17 “The Damned” 8.923 million
11-05-17 “Monsters” 8.519 million
11-12-17 “Some Guy” 8.688 million
11-19-17 “The Big Scary U” 7.845 million
11-26-17 “The King, The Widow, & Rick” 8.282 million
12-03-17 “Time For After” 7.468 million
12-10-17 “How It’s Gotta Be” 7.885 million

And for comparison's sake, here are the ratings for the first 8 episodes of Season 7:

10-23-16 “The Day Will Come When You Won’t Be” 17.029 million
10-30-16 “The Well” 12.455 million
11-06-16 “The Cell” 11.721 million
11-13-16 “Service” 11.402 million
11-20-16 “Go Getters” 10.996 million
11-27-16 “Swear” 10.403 million
12-04-16 “Sing Me a Song” 10.481 million
12-11-16 “Hearts Still Beating” 10.583 million

Something's definitely broken.