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S35.E12: Not Going to Roll Over and Die

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The thing that puzzles me is that I thought it was cannon that contestants were not allowed to destroy other contestants' immunity idols. So what makes it ok to destroy half an idol? I thought it was forbidden. (Wasn't there a case seasons ago when someone threw someone else's idol in the sea, and the owner of the idol got it back?) I thought all was fair in Survivor within a specific set of rules, but if the rules have become flexible that's a major change.

If Mike is such a fan, how could he think it was ok to destroy part of someone's idol? Clearly, he wasn't wrong, but to me that's just weird.

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I'm still on the Ben train. If either he or Devon win - I'll be happy but I think with the way Ashley is playing - people are going to give it to her.

If anyone is switching sides it's Mike - he's all over the place - siding with Ben - then running to Ashley and telling all- I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him.

Ben's alliance has been talking about getting rid of him for at least 2 weeks now and I was surprised with Devon as I thought he and Ben were close - but he's not thinking and listening to the girls. Stop and think Devon - who has an immunity necklace around their neck - not Ben - who found the idol and won reward challenges back to back - Lauren - not Ben.

Everyone thinks if Ben gets to the final three - just because he was in the military - he'll win. Is anyone considering - gameplay, moves, what they brought to the table ect..? I thank him for his military service but like him because of his gameplay so far - he did an awesome job playing double agent. Since this is so edited - we really don't see what a person is really like and their interactions with the others. production picks and chooses what we will see and in the order we will see it.

My Favorite was Lauren - but to openly announce you found the idol when no one is near you was stupid - especially when she knew Ashley wanted to get Ben out - why let on you found the idol. Pick the sack up - turn the log over and get out of there. You can look at it later - but no you read the thing in front of the other 2 guys so everyone knows you have a clue including the guy you want to backdoor. Sorry but when Ben did find them at the well - none of them hid it when he asked what was going on. The oh shit faces said it all and people are mad he went and tried and succeeded in flipping it! 

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48 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

I saw Mike's throw differently. Yes, he was doing it for the camera time and because he thought it was cute. That said, he was not tossing away an idol. He was throwing away one part of an idol that he could not use. By doing that, he prevented Lauren from using the idol at a later tribal council. He didn't give up immunity, he prevented Lauren from gaining immunity. In a showy way because he is a Survivor nerd and wanted to do something like that.

I see why he did it, it could either look a clever move or people might see it as being provocative.  He could have just kept that half anyway I assume without having to destroy it.  And if he'd missed the fire I assume Lauren could have just ran over and tried to get it before anyone else.

24 minutes ago, NutMeg said:

The thing that puzzles me is that I thought it was cannon that contestants were not allowed to destroy other contestants' immunity idols. So what makes it ok to destroy half an idol? I thought it was forbidden. (Wasn't there a case seasons ago when someone threw someone else's idol in the sea, and the owner of the idol got it back?) I thought all was fair in Survivor within a specific set of rules, but if the rules have become flexible that's a major change.

If Mike is such a fan, how could he think it was ok to destroy part of someone's idol? Clearly, he wasn't wrong, but to me that's just weird.

Maybe it wasn't an idol but just a seashell until it was combined with the strap that went with it.  I thought it was ridiculous anyway, pick up a seashell and you've got your idol, too easy.  Glad it didn't work out just for that.

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59 minutes ago, Kelda Feegle said:

I hate the whole 'resume' BS, to me if you make it to the end that's enough and well done to you.

I don't agree, I want people to think they should play the game.

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8 hours ago, blackwing said:

I have disliked Ben since the beginning.  He is a grade A dick.  Such an arrogant bully.  He was an ass to Chrissy and then later he asks her about what Devin said and when she's all "why would I tell you after the way you've treated me" he's all "whoa, way to be nasty".  He is always the aggressor but he also always views himself as the victim.  So tired of him.

I can't believe he is making me root for Chrissy. I want anyone but Ben to win.  My hope is that even if he makes it to the end that he has alienated everybody.

Mike is a tool.  I'm sure one of the reasons why he threw the idol in the fire is because he wants to be remembered as "He threw the idol in the fire!!!" just like "She voted out her mom!!!" Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera.   He is a horrible player.  After Ben came to him with a plan to vote out Lauren, Mike is all "never underestimate Dr. Mike".   What a loser.  1) he needs to stop talking about himself in the third person and 2) he only survived through the grace of others, it had nothing to do with him.

Ironic that in the first episode Ben said he didn't think of himself as a hero, being a marine was just his job.  And now I could see him pulling out the marine card if he gets to the end.

im not crazy about Ben or Chrissy but he really was a dick to her--so to me it was satisfying that shortly after he was such a jerk, she had the ability to pass him over for the loved ones bbq. the truly classy thing would have been to pick him lol, but I dont think I could have done it. picking him becase his hands were shaking would have been "mothering " ha

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I think both Ben and Chrissy have had their arrogant moments and I've flip flopped my opinion of them from week to week.  But you've gotta hand it to them that they are both playing hard.  Ryan was featured prominently early in the season but has kind of taken a back seat to Chrissy lately.  I still think the three of them will be F3, or at least they are to me the most deserving (now that Lauren is out).  If that's the case I can see the votes being all over the place, no clear cut winner.  Should be interesting!

7 hours ago, Bouffe said:

Speaking of Chrissy and Ben... They are secretly aligned, yeah?

That would be awesome!

Mike is the loosest cannon that ever cannoned.  Is he intentionally playing a nutjob character in order to be remembered?

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This episode was crazy!!! I think I got whiplash from trying to keep up with all the back and forth and changing in plans. Afterward, I felt I needed to go lay down for 45 minutes. No, an hour. A full hour! 

Okay, first I want to comment on the Loved Ones visit. I'm one of the few who always loves the LO episodes. I think it helps me better understand who the players are as people, and gives them some dimension, beyond seeing them as a good guy or a bad guy or a goat or a snake, etc. I always get emotional. I watch with my sons and we talk about if THEY were on Survivor one day and brought me out there. Ahhhh. 

Anyhow, I HATED the LO challenge this year. I call complete and utter BS. Probst said something about the challenge being one that depended on how "in sync" you were with your loved one. BULL SHIT. It was a game of chance. Nothing more. I was pissed. I thought it would have been better if they did a Newlyweds style question-and-answer game. Or some type of other mental challenge. This was over way too fast and relied on nothing but pure happenstance. 

That being said, I thought Chrissy made smart choices in who she picked. 

But damn, everything went crazy after that. The two players I was rooting hardest for completely lost it last night. First, Ben gets crazy paranoid (although, he wasn't wrong) and starts trying to really shake things up. And I think he almost had it, but ultimately everyone realized what a threat he is. Except....he had that Idol. Good for him for not telling anyone. It really saved his ass. 

Lauren was right in that Ben was playing the game too personally, but then she completely fell on her face. Man, I had such high hopes for her. I liked both her and Ben, but I really wanted her to win. WHY, WHY, WHY would she give Dr. Mike half her Idol???? Damn. I was so disappointed. Dumbass move and she deserved to go home for that, as much as I wish she could have stayed. 

Whew, my head is still spinning. And I'm not even sure who I want to root for now. Ben? I don't know....I feel like he lost standing with me last night, even though I can't really say why. He played hard and he took chances, but sometimes there's this arrogance about him that just rubs me wrong. I kind of low key like Ashley. She's very good at challenges, but I don't know that she has the resume of winner. I have a lot of respect for Chrissy's game, but she's hard for me to connect with as a person. Dr. Mike? Half the time he's a bumbling idiot, and the other half he's a genius. 

Sigh....I don't know. But at least it's fun to watch. 

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The thing that puzzles me is that I thought it was canon that contestants were not allowed to destroy other contestants' immunity idols. So what makes it ok to destroy half an idol? I thought it was forbidden. (Wasn't there a case seasons ago when someone threw someone else's idol in the sea, and the owner of the idol got it back?) I thought all was fair in Survivor within a specific set of rules, but if the rules have become flexible that's a major change.

 

Lauren gave it to him so that half of the idol was his to do with as he pleased. You can't steal somebody's idol or destroy it against their will, but if they give it to you, all bets are off. Of course, it was a stupid move, not to mention finding it and immediately announcing it to all. It's so frustrating when people are compelled to share their idols and advantages with anyone...even their very BFF in the game.

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33 minutes ago, NutMeg said:

The thing that puzzles me is that I thought it was cannon that contestants were not allowed to destroy other contestants' immunity idols. So what makes it ok to destroy half an idol? I thought it was forbidden. (Wasn't there a case seasons ago when someone threw someone else's idol in the sea, and the owner of the idol got it back?) I thought all was fair in Survivor within a specific set of rules, but if the rules have become flexible that's a major change.

If Mike is such a fan, how could he think it was ok to destroy part of someone's idol? Clearly, he wasn't wrong, but to me that's just weird.

Lauren gave Mike the idol. She didn't say hold on to this so I don't play it. She gave Mike the idol piece, it was his to do with as he wanted.

27 minutes ago, tessat said:

I'm still on the Ben train. If either he or Devon win - I'll be happy but I think with the way Ashley is playing - people are going to give it to her.

If anyone is switching sides it's Mike - he's all over the place - siding with Ben - then running to Ashley and telling all- I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him.

Ben's alliance has been talking about getting rid of him for at least 2 weeks now and I was surprised with Devon as I thought he and Ben were close - but he's not thinking and listening to the girls. Stop and think Devon - who has an immunity necklace around their neck - not Ben - who found the idol and won reward challenges back to back - Lauren - not Ben.

Everyone thinks if Ben gets to the final three - just because he was in the military - he'll win. Is anyone considering - gameplay, moves, what they brought to the table ect..? I thank him for his military service but like him because of his gameplay so far - he did an awesome job playing double agent. Since this is so edited - we really don't see what a person is really like and their interactions with the others. production picks and chooses what we will see and in the order we will see it.

My Favorite was Lauren - but to openly announce you found the idol when no one is near you was stupid - especially when she knew Ashley wanted to get Ben out - why let on you found the idol. Pick the sack up - turn the log over and get out of there. You can look at it later - but no you read the thing in front of the other 2 guys so everyone knows you have a clue including the guy you want to backdoor. Sorry but when Ben did find them at the well - none of them hid it when he asked what was going on. The oh shit faces said it all and people are mad he went and tried and succeeded in flipping it! 

I don't think Ashley gets credit for anything. I think she falls into Devon and Mike category. They are riding on other peoples coat tails but think that they are doing more then they are. She has more credibility because she has won immunity but she has never been a strategic decision maker in her alliance. Joe and Mike probably won't vote for her for the flip flop on them.

Mike has to switch sides, he has always been on the bottom and has been treated that way. It is easy as all hell and gone for Mike to explain his moving back and forth between alliances. No one would begrudge him the movement. Mike's problem is that no one sees him as a threat so he is left in the game as a vote and for no other reason.

Ben has been struggling socially all season long. Ashley has been targeting him for weeks. I think the military piece is the easy thing to bring up because people see it as an outlying external factor that they all support. It is easier to bring that up then the more personal reasons, because all of those are actually good goat reasons to keep Ben. The Dictator, the overly aggressive game play, the stupid fights with multiple folks. Ben has held grudges against Cole, Joe and now Chrissy. I think we can add Ashley to the list. All good reasons to keep him in the game except he has pissed people off enough that he is a target. Ashley and Chrissy are really pissed with Ben and are blinded by how easy he would be to win.

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I was rooting for Lauren to win and can't stand Ben but I couldn't even be mad at him for what happened. Finally somebody plays his idol right in an epic move that nobody on the tribe saw coming because he kept it a frickin secret. Lauren was moronic giving her idol away to a rando on the island when her name is on the chopping block. And that extra vote advantage is never gonna get played the right way so might as well leave it on the island when you only have 3 solid votes with 7 people on the island...??? Sigh.

All the shit we give Chrissy for always mouthing strategy right next to the person she's talking about but these morons couldn't even keep a lookout while talking about blindsiding someone or play it off right...Good thing they put Ben in the actor role last episode because none of them could have pulled it off. As much as I hate him, he deserves to win...especially if they keep him around even longer.

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8 hours ago, jbrecken said:

The reward challenge was so stupid that until Bern and his wife matched, I assumed that the bags were rigged so that no one would match, and Probst would say, "You think we'd have a challenge this dumb?  Fooled you guys - what you're really doing this week is digging up a treasure buried somewhere on this beach. The inside of your bag has half a clue written on it!"

LOL, oh my gosh, I literally had the same thought! "This is a joke. They're going to reveal the REAL challenge in a minute". NOPE. 

 

7 hours ago, green said:

Well if Ben didn't have that idol then Mike would be lauded as a genius for his move for he would have gotten one major threat voted out (Ben) at the same time he stripped another (Lauren) of her major advantage and power in the game. 

Exactly. It was kind of a kill-two-birds-with-one-stone night. He'd vote with her, but he wasn't going to let her have more power. I thought it was a decent move. It just happened that Ben had an Idol that NO ONE knew about. Which was smarter, in the end. 

 

1 hour ago, SuburbanHangSuite said:

Devon and his mom were too cute.  ALMOST as cute as Cirie and her son.

I loved when he told her she looked beautiful. What a good son. 

 

1 hour ago, plurie said:

Devon, Lauren and Ashley: Not lying to Ben about what they were talking about at the well. It would have been SO easy to say "Dr. Mike wants to vote you out, and we pretended to go along with it, but we are lying to him."

None of them have a poker face. NONE. When Ben walked up they all looked like kids who got caught with their hands in the cookie jar. It was embarrassing how lame their reaction was. 

 

1 hour ago, plurie said:

Everyone who isn't Ben: Not considering the possibility that he has an idol.

I swear, the last 5 votes (or more) have been - "___ might have an Idol, let's split it". Then this is the ONE time they don't consider that???? 

 

1 hour ago, Kelda Feegle said:

I hate the whole 'resume' BS, to me if you make it to the end that's enough and well done to you.

Not me. Some people can play a low key game, but some people just end up there because everyone was scrambling to get out bigger targets. It's very personal, though, and I respect that everyone has different criteria for what makes a winner. But I want to see someone WORK for it (whether mentally or physically). 

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Annnnd with Lauren gone, as they say in "Shark Tank" - I'm out!  Chrissy, Ryan and Ben would be THE WORST Final 3 ever (IMO)

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The moment Lauren handed her shell to Mike, I almost expected cartoon music to come up. It was surreal, I was hoping she was giving him a fake necklace bit

All I could think the whole time was that there had to be more to the HII. 

I mean, a rope and a shell? What is this...Survivor: Preschool? 

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On splitting the vote, who do they decide is the second vote? Chrissy, Mike and Ryan were only three votes, so what split makes sense?

Ashley, Lauren and Devon were voting Ben

Ben was voting Lauren

So Chrissy, Mike and Ryan should have voted for Ashley or Devon?

Never mind that Ashley and Devon are not seen as targets. Lauren and Ben were on the table because they can win at final tribal. Ben and Lauren both knew that, it is why they targeted each other. Chrissy, Mike and Ryan are not worried about Ashley and Devon at final tribal. Vote for one of them and have them go home and now Lauren and the survivor are pissed and it could hurt them in final tribal.

By voting with Ben, they help themselves with possible votes at final tribal. They know Ben is voting for Lauren, so if he does play an idol a big threat goes home anyway.

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9 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

At least Lauren knows that her extra vote would not have worked because Ben had the idol.

It would have if she had used it on, say, Mike (splitting her two votes between Ben and Mike). Then she and Mike would have been a 1-1 tie and maybe Mike would go home on revote.

Edited by Lamima
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3 minutes ago, sadiegirl1999 said:

I mean, a rope and a shell? What is this...Survivor: Preschool? 

I think they are making them simple to encourage people to make fake ones. 

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Just now, Lamima said:

It would have if she had used it on, say, Mike. Then she and Mike would have been a 1-1 tie and maybe Mike would go home on revote.

But why would she have used it that way? Chrissy I can buy but Lauren is not voting for MIke because Mike is not a threat. But she was focused on taking out Ben. I can understand Lauren not being worried about Ben not having an idol, she and Ben had shared a lot of info and were working together. She expected that he would tell her about the idol, unless he found it after the panic at camp started.

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It would have been awesome if at reward when she got a fourth person, Chrissy said to Ben, "well Ben, since you had earlier told me that you didn't appreciate me mothering you, I'm not going to pick you, because I don't want to get accused again of mothering you.  Ashley, come to momma."

Mike and Ashley are the only two zeroes right now that I think would get no respect in final tribal.  As to Mike, simply managing to survive isn't enough.  His gameplay has had no strategy and questionable choices.  He can't win based on simply being strange and unpredictable.  

As for Ashley, she herself recognizes that people will think she didn't do anything.   However, I have a feeling she is taking credit for the attempted ouster of Ben.  She will have to show more strategy.

Could someone please break Mike's glasses?   Why doesn't he use the water from the well to clean them?  Surely he could wash them?  Or are they just scratched so badly?

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Just now, cooksdelight said:

I think they are making them simple to encourage people to make fake ones. 

I thought they went with simple so they could plant the shell in front of her platform and not make it look totally obvious. If it had been anything fancy or large, it would have been more obvious. So the idea was to make some thing that required some risk but not too much risk.

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1 minute ago, ProfCrash said:

But why would she have used it that way? Chrissy I can buy but Lauren is not voting for MIke because Mike is not a threat. But she was focused on taking out Ben. I can understand Lauren not being worried about Ben not having an idol, she and Ben had shared a lot of info and were working together. She expected that he would tell her about the idol, unless he found it after the panic at camp started.

You'd stated that at least Lauren knows her extra vote would not have worked because of Ben's idol....but her extra vote may have worked.

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WHYYYYYYY would Lauren not bring her extra vote to TC?  I have never understood not bringing an advantage/idol to TC.  Why on earth would any player ever leave it back at camp?  You can never predict what's going to go down at TC.  I honestly thought Lauren was pretending she didn't have it and was then going to use it, but it wouldn't have mattered anyway, I guess.

Why does anyone find an advantage, tell someone they "trust," and that person immediately runs and tells everyone else?  That's been a theme all season.  Maybe Ben should win based on the fact that he alone knows how to keep a secret.

I also don't get why Lauren gave Mike half of her idol (was she really that comfortable)?  And why Mike tossed it in the fire - his moves are so strange and don't make a lot of sense to me.  I feel like he's doing it only for camera time, or to make himself into a wacky character who might be asked back.

Admittedly, all of my questions have probably been answered already...off to read the entire thread.

What a weird season.  I alternately hate it, love it, and am annoyed by everyone.

EDIT:  At the loved one's reward, I swear I heard Probst say that they were going to be "running the reward in pairs."  So when it turned into "pick a rock," I was super confused.  I wonder if a couple of the loved ones were physically unable to run and they changed it up at the last minute?

Edited by laurakaye
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Just now, Lamima said:

You'd stated that at least Lauren knows her extra vote would not have worked because of Ben's idol....but her extra vote may have worked.

Yup but it would only work if she had a reason to play it that made sense. She had no reason to think that her main ally, up until the last 12 hours, had not told her about the idol that he had been holding for ages. She told Ben everything, Ben told her everything. Except about the idol. So from Lauren's point of view there was no risk. Why use her advantage unless she thought she needed it for Ben? And it was clear that she knew that the group was voting for Ben. So using her advantage could have helped her, Lauren could have voted for Chrissy and forced a tie or even voted Chrissy out but she did not think that Ben had an idol. There is strategy and there is over thinking things. She was stupid how she used the idol bit but I can understand why she didn't use the advantage. She knew that the entire tribe was voting for Ben and had no reason to think he had an idol. She didn't need the advantage to get Ben out, so why use it? The only way she would have used it was to cast a vote for Ben, which his idol would have negated.

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But she was made aware that she was on the chopping block too. How could she be so sure that Chrissy, Ben, Ryan and Mike were not writing her name down? With a potential 4-3 vote she should have at least brought that extra vote with her.

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I think Chrissy and Mike are easy to read and Chrissy so wanted to vote Ben out. Even if she brought the vote, and I agree it was stupid to leave it at camp, she would not have used it because it was clear that it was going to be 7 - 1 vote. The only way she would have played it is if she thought Ben had an idol and she had no reason to believe that he did. It would have been beautiful if she had played it and voted for Chrissy just in case but I can understand why she did not do that.

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12 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

Lauren ASSumed that her alliance against Ben was solid. That’s your first mistake.

.

Edited by QTBlueMoon · Reason: never mind

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Lordy, every single one of these people is an idiot. What would the eventual winner even have to brag about? That they outwitted Ashley? Or outplayed Mike? Or were more likeable than Chrissy? The only thing that would redeem this season is if next week they show up for a challenge, Jeff says, "everyone drop your buffs! Now go home. You all suck. This season never happened," and then he jetskis away.

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10 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I think Jeremy and Kelley were groaning at how easy retrieving that idol piece at the challenge was.

Seriously, that ticked me off.  I thought the shell was at least going to require some sneaky maneuvering on Lauren's part.  But no, not only is it not hidden, it's sitting directly in front of her platform.  And then she picks it up and rests it right on her knee.  I mean, come on.  This idol thing is beyond ridiculous.  Next season why doesn't Probst just hand everyone an idol along with their buff?  THAT would be interesting.  (sarcasm) (not really)

As for Ben winning...man, who would he have to be sitting with in the final three for that to happen?  Probably Smug Chrissy and Spastic Dr. Mike?  Yuck.  So my pretty Devon is probably next to go, based on the fact that he's not an inexplicable idiot.  If Ashley can get herself to three, she stands a good chance at winning, IMO.  I guess Ryan could also win by default, if a moderate breeze doesn't blow him into the ocean first.

Edited by laurakaye
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11 hours ago, Wandering Snark said:

Does anyone know how to play this game out there??

 

14 minutes ago, fishcakes said:

Lordy, every single one of these people is an idiot.

Quote

Everyone on this season is so bad at the game that they sort of even each other out.  Ben is playing the best, still.  But it's like a 3 out of 10 and everyone else is a 2.

This. All of this. I can't remember a F6 that entirely consisted of just horrible players. And they're all unlikable at least half the time, with most of them being unlikable at least 90% of the time. I don't mind watching a bunch of idiots play the game, but it's hard to handle when they're all so unlikable as well.

11 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

That irritated me to no end. When Chrissy calmly replied "How am I mothering you? I don't call my kids a jerk", it was just so reminiscent of what women go through all the time. How many times have you been speaking in a completely calm voice, being completely rational, but the dude you're talking to immediately responds with "Relax!". I'm not getting all anti-male here or anything, I'm just saying that, as women, we have all been Chrissy at that moment.

Even here you had to make sure to include that you weren't being anti-male, which just proves the whole point beautifully really.

10 hours ago, TVFan1 said:

Out of everyone left, I'm rooting for Ashley to win it all. It's far fetched, but I hope it happens. It would be totally unexpected.

I really want this to happen. Ashley is the only one left that I don't hate most of the time. Plus she's on my fantasy team.

1 hour ago, Haleth said:

But you've gotta hand it to [Ben/Chrissy] that they are both playing hard.  

Hard, but certainly not well. They're all playing hard, but they all galactically suck at at least 1 aspect of the game. It's actually really awkward to watch lol.

THERE ARE TOO MANY FUCKING IDOLS/ADVANTAGES IN THIS GAME! Make it stop already! I'm so tired of it. If they hide another idol now I'll probably lose my mind. Ben is still there because he's good at finding idols. That's the only reason. 

Does Probst love this season? I bet he does. It's very WA where everyone is stupid and unlikable and he really loved WA.

Edited by peachmangosteen
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Stupidest challenge ever? Check.

Worst editing ever? Check. (We go to commercial in the middle of the loved ones' visit, then come back and Boom! it's IC time. WTF? Did the love ones just disappear in a puff of smoke?)

Stupidest gameplay ever? Definitely in the running. (Lauren: "I'm gonna prove my faith in alla you by leaving everything I worked so hard for in this game BACK AT CAMP OR IN OTHER PEOPLE'S HANDS." There's no words for that level of dumb.)

I'm so tired of Probst and Burnett's hardon for Ben. Yes, we get it, you both wish you were a big tuff soldier. Well, you're not and fawning over this guy won't change that.

I really liked that matchstick Ryan outlasted Mr. Supersoldier in the IC. As did everyone else.

The idols used to be beautifully crafted things. Now it's a piece of string and a seashell? Have they dumped the idol design budget into Probst's salary or something? Pathetic. Deliberately making the hidden idols look like something a bored 5-year-old whipped up on a rainy day at grandma's house just to encourage fake idols is just sad. It's admitting that the people they're currently recruiting as contestants don't have a fraction of the gumption and creativity displayed by earlier players, so they have to be led by the hand through every step in the game.

Remember when there were challenges that tested memory and knowledge of local culture? Now it's 'swim and do a puzzle' or 'stand there until you fall over.' The creativity is just stunning, isn't it?

I only ever abandoned this show during the sadistic Russell Hantz seasons but except for the stunning nature photography, they sure have dumbed this game down.

I guess I'm rooting for Ashley -- she wins challenges and she's under the radar and she's not obnoxious. 

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2 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

Next season why doesn't Probst just hand everyone an idol along with their buff?  THAT would be interesting.  (sarcasm) (not really)

I actually think they should do this. They're never going to get rid of idol, unfortunately, so this would at least be kinda funny.

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1 hour ago, laurakaye said:

EDIT:  At the loved one's reward, I swear I heard Probst say that they were going to be "running the reward in pairs."  So when it turned into "pick a rock," I was super confused.  I wonder if a couple of the loved ones were physically unable to run and they changed it up at the last minute?
 

I thought that at first (and thought that would immediately give an advantage to younger ones), but then when they then started the weak challenge I thought he must have just been using it as a turn of phrase to say they were doing the challenge together.

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I like this cast. There are some people I like less, Joe, but they are all playing. They might be sucking in one area, most of them are failing socially, but they are playing. They are not making moves to make moves and there is a logic behind their decisions. There is no blind play, even the people riding on other peoples tail coats are trying to make moves and have done something a bit unique. Mike has done a decent job of flipping, he and Joe blew that one flip area but I can see why they did. Devon suggested that Ben be a double agent. Ashley has targeted Ben when others were more willing to let him coast a bit.

Desi and Joe were playing hard. Cole was an idiot in the social area but was trying to play on challenges and make alliances. JP is really the only one who made it to the merge who seems like a waste of a spot. Even most of the pre-jury vote outs were playing and, for the most part, out played.

Ben and Chrissy are aggressive people who are not likely to be embraced by the viewing audience but have moments of great play and are getting in their own way more then anything.

I am enjoying this season.

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21 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

They're never going to get rid of idol,

I wish they'd try for just one season.  An advantage-free season could be interesting.  Maybe not tell the contestants until they've dug up the whole island looking.

However I must admit Survivor voting is way more entertaining than Big Brother where the audience pretty much knows in advance who's being voted off and voting is unanimous. 

That Tribal Council last night was fun to watch.

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47 minutes ago, Gummo said:

Worst editing ever? Check. (We go to commercial in the middle of the loved ones' visit, then come back and Boom! it's IC time. WTF? Did the love ones just disappear in a puff of smoke?)

I'm glad they disappeared, I always skip that part anyway.

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8 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

Everyone on this season is so bad at the game that they sort of even each other out.  Ben is playing the best, still.  But it's like a 3 out of 10 and everyone else is a 2.  He may have saved himself this time, but literally everyone voted against him, so his work will be cut out for him now.  Chrissy is a great villain, but like so many top dogs laid low, she's not very good at playing from the bottom.  She actually knows what to do, in a sort of abstract sense -- Ashley was a good choice to try to find a crack in the alliance, for example -- but she's so bad at the social game.  Ryan is an ineffectual non-factor -- he couldn't even persuade Dr. Mike to vote out Lauren, which would have been good for them because at the next tribal, Ben would need them, whereas Lauren with her extra vote would not and just Pagong the trio of losers.  Ashley knows she's got no case to win, but can't manage to successfully put a case together.  Devon got too comfortable, and is a bad liar, as well as being again, bad at the social game of being gracious and friendly with the enemy alliance.

Dr. Mike is on a very short list of my least favorite Survivors of all time, with Terry Dietz, Adam Klein, perhaps someone I'm forgetting.  Dawn Meehan at least ran Caramoan like a boss, so I could respect her while hating her.  Think of how you feel about Russell, Philip, Coach, whoever you hate the most, and don't enjoy hating, but hate to hate -- that's me and Dr. Mike.

Oh but the previous double episode was the only good episode of the season!

Well, the thing is that Lauren was right about everything.  She didn't need her idol, she didn't need her advantage, literally everyone voted with her.  Now that may be mostly because Dr. Mike is a fucking moron (since Chrissy and Ryan both wanted to vote Lauren, from what we saw), but in any case, she did get the votes, which is what she wanted to do and what the game requires.  No shame in being idoled out, I always say.

Chrissy voted for Ben, so....  I believe he persuaded her to vote with him, but that's not a secret alliance, just an alliance of necessity.

I do think, looking at the players now, it's going to be Devon and Ashley out next, and then I guess it's the stupid fucking final 4 thing so all strategy goes out the window and some combination of Ben, Chrissy, Ryan, or Dr. Mike will go to FTC.  And I think if Ben gets there he has to win because he's the only one who has been in on every vote so far; the other three will not really have much of a case.  I guarantee, though, that whichever idiot goes out at that F4 bullshit will go out smug as can be, saying if they'd got to the end they would have won, and that makes me irrationally angry in anticipation.

There IS shame in being idoled out, when you had an idol of your own you could have used, but gave half of it away to someone who threw it in the fire.  Ben came right out and said he was voting for Lauren and there was a lot of other chatter about voting for her.  She could have hedged against Ben having an idol, or the vote going against her, by keeping her idol intact and playing it.  

Ben is making some exciting, slick moves, but since everyone else voted against him, it would seem he would need to go on an immunity run to make it to FTC.  Plus, he seems to be genuinely disliked by most of the tribe now, so he probably wouldn't get many votes at FTC anyway.  

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11 hours ago, blackwing said:

I have disliked Ben since the beginning.  He is a grade A dick.  Such an arrogant bully.  He was an ass to Chrissy and then later he asks her about what Devin said and when she's all "why would I tell you after the way you've treated me" he's all "whoa, way to be nasty".  He is always the aggressor but he also always views himself as the victim.  So tired of him.

I can't believe he is making me root for Chrissy. I want anyone but Ben to win.  My hope is that even if he makes it to the end that he has alienated everybody.

Mike is a tool.  I'm sure one of the reasons why he threw the idol in the fire is because he wants to be remembered as "He threw the idol in the fire!!!" just like "She voted out her mom!!!" Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera.   He is a horrible player.  After Ben came to him with a plan to vote out Lauren, Mike is all "never underestimate Dr. Mike".   What a loser.  1) he needs to stop talking about himself in the third person and 2) he only survived through the grace of others, it had nothing to do with him.

Ironic that in the first episode Ben said he didn't think of himself as a hero, being a marine was just his job.  And now I could see him pulling out the marine card if he gets to the end.

It took me a few episodes to dislike Ben, but I can't stand him now. For all the talk of how smug Chrissy is, I think Ben has her beat by a mile in the smugness department.

His trajectory in this episode is giving me flashbacks to Mike Holloway from the Collars season, he also started the game on a good foot and had steady alliances up until a certain point where his game blew up and everyone was against him. BUT I feel like Mike's edit improved toward the end (like trying to help Shirin when Will attacked her) to the point where I ended up really rooting for him. Ben's edit has not been positive and I hope it's setting him up for a fall before the end. 

Mike is another one I can't wait to see walk the plank. Such a buffoon and so worried about having his little Survivor moments that he's playing stupidly. I seem to recall Probst name-checking "Dr Mike" as a reason to watch this season, but I'm not sure why he thought the audience would love this doofus. What on earth was the point of throwing Lauren's idol in the fire and then voting for Ben?!? I'm sure he'll have another convoluted explanation for why that was part of his master plan, just like his ridiculous and unnecessary idol play a few weeks ago. 

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Well, the thing is that Lauren was right about everything.  She didn't need her idol, she didn't need her advantage, literally everyone voted with her.  Now that may be mostly because Dr. Mike is a fucking moron (since Chrissy and Ryan both wanted to vote Lauren, from what we saw), but in any case, she did get the votes, which is what she wanted to do and what the game requires.  No shame in being idoled out, I always say.

Chrissy and Ryan's votes are the ones I want to know the story behind, they were so adamant that they were voting Lauren, who flipped them to vote Ben? Was it Devon?

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Chrissy just can't help being herself.  I laughed when she was hugging her husband and telling Jeff how these last few years she had been all caught up in her career .. pause for a tear for her co-workers...  but Survivor had taught her that her family was all that mattered, by golly, and it's going to be all about them from now on.  One second later, Jeff said he had never seen her smile so big, and there was instant change to, "Except yesterday!  I WON IMMUNITY yesterday!" she was literally jumping up and down. Oh yeah Chrissy's changed, it's not going to be all about her anymore, no sir.

Lol. I'm sure Chrissy's kind of a nightmare to work with, very type A personality. But I thought it was kind of cute that she was so excited to tell her husband about her immunity win and how happy he was for her. But agreed that she is not going to change once this experience is over. 

Now that Lauren's gone, I guess I'm rooting for Devon or Ryan. I'm actually leaning toward Ryan over Devon, whose self congratulatory confessionals of late have been kinda irritating me. Ryan's playing a quietly good game, he doesn't overreact when things don't go his way (ahem, Chrissy) and doesn't appear to be a target anytime soon. It seems like he could slip his way into the FTC...if he doesn't literally waste away first. He's making Courtney Yates look plump by comparison.

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I have been rewatching Season 10 and it is really sad how boring and unimaginative the challenges have become. They used to be more than balance on something, balance something, or throw something at something. Or draw a rock. Geez! What was that?!

I liked Lauren and I’m sad to see her go. She must have been severely sleep deprived because she made so many mistakes in this episode. 

I like Ben. I don’t see him as a bully. I do like SmugMug as a name for Chrissy. I started out liking her but she really thinks people should just let her win and clue her in on everything. She’s a real Princess PoopyPants. 

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I've had a love-hate relationship with Ben since the beginning of the season, but last night, when he thwarted what would have been a unanimous vote to send him packing by playing the idol no one knew he had because he was smart enough to not tell anyone makes him my favorite to win.

Lauren was my favorite to win until this episode and all of her careful planning and maneuvering completely and inexplicably evaporated with the conversation at the well (the getting caught part - sloppy), sharing that she had an advantage and an idol, giving part of the idol to Mike for no apparent reason other to shut his trap, and failing to take the extra vote to TC. She knew Ben knew she was out to get him (see the convo at the well) and while she didn't know he had an idol (which, again, good for Ben for keeping that 100% under wraps), there is always that risk and she could have thrown a vote Chrissy or Ryan's wayjust in case  to at least force a tie and likely Chrissy would have gone home on revote.

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13 hours ago, Eolivet said:

"For today's reward challenge, you're going to face off with an opponent. On my go, you'll make a fist in the form of rock, put your hand out in the form of paper or two fingers up in the form of scissors. First one to three? Moves on to the next round, where you'll face off in another of these rock-paper-scissors battles. Last one standing? Wins reward."

I'm telling you, it's coming.

They may as well have just had a bag with rocks with each of the castaways' names on them and had Probst pull one out at random and declare him/her the winner.  Maybe they should just rewards by lottery from now on.

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58 minutes ago, Gummo said:

Remember when there were challenges that tested memory and knowledge of local culture? Now it's 'swim and do a puzzle' or 'stand there until you fall over.' The creativity is just stunning, isn't it?

I only ever abandoned this show during the sadistic Russell Hantz seasons but except for the stunning nature photography, they sure have dumbed this game down.

I liked your entire post - the challenges and the location are as much a part of the show as the players, IMO.

I do like the new challenges we've seen so far in this season, with the pointed exception of the rock-draw loved ones challenge.  I tend to pay more attention to challenges that we haven't seen before.  That said, I have always loved the trivia challenges because they're different each time, and the gross-food eating challenges, because I love seeing who's tough and who's not.

As for the nature photography, I liked it far better when each location was new and unique.  Haven't they been in Fiji for the past four seasons?

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3 hours ago, NutMeg said:

The thing that puzzles me is that I thought it was cannon that contestants were not allowed to destroy other contestants' immunity idols. So what makes it ok to destroy half an idol? I thought it was forbidden. (Wasn't there a case seasons ago when someone threw someone else's idol in the sea, and the owner of the idol got it back?) I thought all was fair in Survivor within a specific set of rules, but if the rules have become flexible that's a major change.

If Mike is such a fan, how could he think it was ok to destroy part of someone's idol? Clearly, he wasn't wrong, but to me that's just weird.

Is that the case when the idol's original owner gives you the idol, or in the case part of the idol?  This seems different than if I just snatch your idol while you are showing it to me, or steal it from your bag, and throw it in the ocean or the fire.  

Edited by Bryce Lynch
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Do you think it's the deprivation; lack of food, lack of sleep, lack of comfort, or do you think it's greed, dangling of money right in front of their noses, that turns supposedly reasonable people into very black-and-white one dimensional characters who believe "Everything I do to try to win this game is good and justifiable, but everything YOU do to try to win this game makes you a low-down dirty dog who can't be trusted.  Even though you are doing the exact same things I'm doing."  Because they almost all seem to revert to that character in this game sooner or later.  I didn't really care for Joe but liked that he said "eh, they got me" and still showed up all smiles at Tribal.   That doesn't seem to happen as often as the bitter ones, even though they all know going into it than only ONE person is going to make it. 

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1 hour ago, laurakaye said:

Seriously, that ticked me off.  I thought the shell was at least going to require some sneaky maneuvering on Lauren's part.  But no, not only is it not hidden, it's sitting directly in front of her platform.  And then she picks it up and rests it right on her knee.  I mean, come on.  This idol thing is beyond ridiculous.  Next season why doesn't Probst just hand everyone an idol along with their buff?  THAT would be interesting.  (sarcasm) (not really)

 

I hate calling shenanigans on things but 1-you need the other half of the idol, 2-it's right there, easy to grab and 3-it JUST SO HAPPENED TO BE IN FRONT OF LAURA'S PLATFORM? 

What if it had been in front of someone else's? That really (almost) screams producer interference. 

Jeff did NOT say--or it was not aired--"we'll draw for spots". 

It smells fishy to me. 

<putting on tinfoil hat> 

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Joe said that when he left but it is not what he is saying at Ponderosa. Just saying

I think it is the sleep deprivation, the food deprivation, the mental stress, and the physical stress that leads to people falling into the trap of "It's ok for me to play the game but you cannot play the game against me."  I think it is worse when it is someone you aligned with who stabs you in the back. Ryan, Chrissy and JP all were very tied to the alliance of 7. The initial betrayal hurt. Toss in Ben's playing double agent and having that revealed so soon after the first betrayal and you have a visibly annoyed Chrissy. Neither Ben or Chrissy handled it well but for Ben to be surprised by her response and to try and blow it off is ridiculous. Of course she is going to take it personally. Chrissy told Ben that he was being targeted because he was dictating too much. She legit covered his ass and he stabbed her in the back twice. That is going to hurt.

No one has handled the backstabbing well this season. Ryan lost it when Ali questioned him. Chrissy was smug when her alliance took power. Devon, Ashley, Joe and Mike were pretty awful when they blindsided JP. Ben was awful last night.

I swear they found the worst possible social players for this season. It has been a wreck in that area but I kind of like watching how badly they are playing in that realm while still making some good moves. It is kind of fascinating.

4 minutes ago, sadiegirl1999 said:

I hate calling shenanigans on things but 1-you need the other half of the idol, 2-it's right there, easy to grab and 3-it JUST SO HAPPENED TO BE IN FRONT OF LAURA'S PLATFORM? 

What if it had been in front of someone else's? That really (almost) screams producer interference. 

Jeff did NOT say--or it was not aired--"we'll draw for spots". 

It smells fishy to me. 

<putting on tinfoil hat> 

The clue said it would be in front of her platform at the next challenge. That was very clear. I expected it to be something a bit more then a regular sea shell in the sand but it couldn't be something so obvious that she didn't have some chance to pick it up in secret. It was a bit too ridiculously easy though.

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I’d love an idol/advantage-free season, without the players being told. Let Jeff still say “if anyone has a hidden immunity idol.....” during TC anyway. I’d enjoy watching them digging like dogs looking for a bone.

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