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Whimsy

S35.E12: Not Going to Roll Over and Die

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10 minutes ago, sadiegirl1999 said:

I hate calling shenanigans on things but 1-you need the other half of the idol, 2-it's right there, easy to grab and 3-it JUST SO HAPPENED TO BE IN FRONT OF LAURA'S PLATFORM? 

What if it had been in front of someone else's? That really (almost) screams producer interference. 

Jeff did NOT say--or it was not aired--"we'll draw for spots". 

It smells fishy to me. 

<putting on tinfoil hat> 

Probst said the platforms were custom built for each player as they would need to be because each player's wingspan would be different. Devon's arms stretched out would require a wider base than Ryan etc.

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3 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

At least Lauren knows that her extra vote would not have worked because Ben had the idol.

Lauren had two votes.  She could have put one on Ben and the second on Chrissy.

 

3 hours ago, laurakaye said:

if a couple of the loved ones were physically unable to run

I wonder if Ryan would have collapsed in his Father's arms.  

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9 minutes ago, enoughcats said:

Lauren had two votes.  She could have put one on Ben and the second on Chrissy.

And why would she think about putting a vote on Chrissy? That implies that she knew or thought Ben might have an idol. She had shared everything in the game with Ben and thought Ben had done the same with her. She had no clue Ben had an idol so she had no good reason to use her advantage, splitting her vote or doubling down on Chrissy.

What she should have done is keep her immunity idol and use it at tribal. Hell put it on before the vote so people knows she is using it. Then she is safe and Ben votes for Chrissy. When Ben plays his idol, Chrissy goes home. Lauren is safe and she has her advantage, Ben is still there but Chrissy is gone.

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25 minutes ago, cujo said:

Probst said the platforms were custom built for each player as they would need to be because each player's wingspan would be different. Devon's arms stretched out would require a wider base than Ryan etc.

Ha! I wasn't listening apparently! (My son was talking during the show...probably for that!) 

Thanks for the clarification! Tinfoil removed! 

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42 minutes ago, bunnyface said:

Do you think it's the deprivation; lack of food, lack of sleep, lack of comfort, or do you think it's greed, dangling of money right in front of their noses, that turns supposedly reasonable people into very black-and-white one dimensional characters who believe "Everything I do to try to win this game is good and justifiable, but everything YOU do to try to win this game makes you a low-down dirty dog who can't be trusted.  Even though you are doing the exact same things I'm doing."  Because they almost all seem to revert to that character in this game sooner or later.  I didn't really care for Joe but liked that he said "eh, they got me" and still showed up all smiles at Tribal.   That doesn't seem to happen as often as the bitter ones, even though they all know going into it than only ONE person is going to make it. 

 I think it's easy to be sore when someone you really did feel loyal to decides to switch loyalties and tank your game this close to the end.  But I find myself thinking the same thing when we see that anger.  I would like the more pertinent question to come out... "Why would you want to go to the end with Devon, Lauren and Ashley instead of me and Ryan?"

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I like Ben too.  I don't think he's taking the game too personally.

His plan for his fake idol seemed really personal. The whole point of it seemed to be to embarrass Chrissy at tribal. That doesn't help his game or give him any kind of advantage, he just wanted to make Chrissy look stupid for playing a fake idol. That's just personal, nothing else.

I'm guessing the reason the reward "challenge" was "pick a marble" was because they waste a shit-ton of time on Probst wringing the tears out of the loved ones by making them stand there in front of him for several minutes so he can say things like "So what does it mean to you see your loved one? Tell me what you are feeling right now? How special is this loved one to you? How important is this loved one in your life?" Ugh. Talk about milking it. That's the part that really annoys the shit out of me. Probst's 3-minute therapy sessions with every pairing. 

I do think it's awfully fishy that the only pairs who matched were the two married couples. 

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I wish Jeff had made that snarky comment about Chrissy instead of Mike. "Come on out Chrissy's husband, we all want to meet the dude that decided to marry her". (Or something like that)

Lauren nooooo!

I guess I hope Ashley or Devon wins. I guess. Or perhaps Ryan.

I was confused about Lauren's idol because I thought for sure she needed another piece for it to work. I mean it was just a rope and shell? If that was it and she had a complete idol then she really did make a stupid move. It was stupid the moment she yelled that she had found it. Shove it down your pants like most people do.

Edited by kimbrchick · Reason: More thoughts.
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I am fine with Chrissy Lannister winning. Devon would be okay too. Mike would be one of the worst winners ever. Ashley is just there. Ryan has been in Chrissy’s shadow. Ben is deserving of winning if he reaches the end, but I can’t stand it when a person’s personal life is used as a reason for voting for a winner. Judge their gameplay, not their life story. 

 

I have enjoyed this season more than most, but losing The Rimmer has me bummed. 

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2 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

I like this cast. There are some people I like less, Joe, but they are all playing. They might be sucking in one area, most of them are failing socially, but they are playing. They are not making moves to make moves and there is a logic behind their decisions. There is no blind play, even the people riding on other peoples tail coats are trying to make moves and have done something a bit unique. Mike has done a decent job of flipping, he and Joe blew that one flip area but I can see why they did. Devon suggested that Ben be a double agent. Ashley has targeted Ben when others were more willing to let him coast a bit.

Desi and Joe were playing hard. Cole was an idiot in the social area but was trying to play on challenges and make alliances. JP is really the only one who made it to the merge who seems like a waste of a spot. Even most of the pre-jury vote outs were playing and, for the most part, out played.

Ben and Chrissy are aggressive people who are not likely to be embraced by the viewing audience but have moments of great play and are getting in their own way more then anything.

I am enjoying this season.

Totally agree.

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19 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I do think it's awfully fishy that the only pairs who matched were the two married couples. 

I think there were three married couples.   I also think that Standards & Practices is out there for the challenges.  

15 minutes ago, ImpinAintEasy said:

 but I can’t stand it when a person’s personal life is used as a reason for voting for a winner. Judge their gameplay, not their life story. 

Me too.  And in my mind being a Marine is nothing to brag about, anyway.   

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14 hours ago, mojoween said:

That Reward Challenge was SO lame that I wonder if one of the loved ones was unable to compete in something physical.  Either one of the ones we saw or one of the ones who would have been there if a different contestant had made that point in the game.

I mean, draw marbles?  Fuck on outta here with that.

It was totally lame.  But every season I feel sorry for the parent family members.  Typically the winners of the reward are siblings or a married couple, and the older parents realize that they were a detriment to their child winning.  If I were ever on the show - I wouldn't be - I would plan on one of my healthiest, most in shape male cousins.

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But if a loved one gets out there and can't run, isn't that just the luck of the draw?  I mean, Colby's brother couldn't throw water in a bucket worth crap, but it still went on.  ;-)  Unless it was scrapped for a real safety reason, like a water challenge that was unsafe, wouldn't it still go on?  Otherwise, it could be construed as changing the challenge to benefit a contestant and S&P wouldn't go for that.  Probst claims it was to save time to show more loved ones visit, but they didn't seem to show any more than usual.  Which is perfectly okay too.

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I had convinced myself that Lauren was playing Mike and was convinced she was going to whip out the REAL shell................ and then she didn't.

 

I don't much like anyone else.  Devin seems nice, but he still thinks he's the brains of the game.  Dr. Mike thinks he's somehow responsible for being "back on top" instead of being used as a pawn again.  Chrissy and Ben?  Just no.  Ryan... meh.  Ashley by default....

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5 hours ago, CloudySky said:

I was rooting for Lauren to win and can't stand Ben but I couldn't even be mad at him for what happened. Finally somebody plays his idol right in an epic move that nobody on the tribe saw coming because he kept it a frickin secret. Lauren was moronic giving her idol away to a rando on the island when her name is on the chopping block. And that extra vote advantage is never gonna get played the right way so might as well leave it on the island when you only have 3 solid votes with 7 people on the island...??? Sigh.

All the shit we give Chrissy for always mouthing strategy right next to the person she's talking about but these morons couldn't even keep a lookout while talking about blindsiding someone or play it off right...Good thing they put Ben in the actor role last episode because none of them could have pulled it off. As much as I hate him, he deserves to win...especially if they keep him around even longer.

As with many castaways this season, I go back and forth on if I like them or not. I guess that's what happens when no real clear favourites emerges early in the season. LOL I like Ben but he was a total ass this episode. But... As you pointe out... Who can be mad at him for playing the idol the right way? No one knew about it. He acted like an ass to ensure all votes would go to him, therefore ensuring that whoever he voted for would go home. Gotta say, that was a good move.

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"Oh, also when Chrissy said 'Ben picked the wrong time to mess with me (approx) because now he won't see his sweet (wife's name).' I literally said out loud 'Bitch!' gads she takes petty to a new high. She just relished it, you could tell."

 

I had the exact same reaction.  Such deep anger. Who knows how one would react out there.  I would hope I would still have enough empathy and compassion to at least acknowledge how much it meant to him.  I think she's that mad because  most due to he put on the act that he was still with them.  It's one thing to be betrayed, it's another to feel like a fool because you bought the act hook line and sinker.  She couldn't stand that she was made to feel stupid.

I'm not so bothered by Ben.  it was funny to see them all yelling at him for abandoning the alliance when they've been talking about getting rid of him for 2 weeks.

and by now, why is everyone looking at these men as physical threats?  The women have been winning.  

I also gave Ben points for being the only married guy who asked about his kids.

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2 hours ago, bunnyface said:

Do you think it's the deprivation; lack of food, lack of sleep, lack of comfort, or do you think it's greed, dangling of money right in front of their noses, that turns supposedly reasonable people into very black-and-white one dimensional characters who believe "Everything I do to try to win this game is good and justifiable, but everything YOU do to try to win this game makes you a low-down dirty dog who can't be trusted.  Even though you are doing the exact same things I'm doing."  Because they almost all seem to revert to that character in this game sooner or later.  I didn't really care for Joe but liked that he said "eh, they got me" and still showed up all smiles at Tribal.   That doesn't seem to happen as often as the bitter ones, even though they all know going into it than only ONE person is going to make it. 

I think it's human nature. It's like people waiting to turn left in their car at an intersection, complaining about the asshole that went through the intersection late. All they did was doing the same thing the one turning left wanted to do; still go through the intersection when the red comes on. You (the general you) are a lying bag of turd when you manipulate and lie to the other castaways, but if I do it, it's ok because it is me.

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1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

His plan for his fake idol seemed really personal. The whole point of it seemed to be to embarrass Chrissy at tribal. That doesn't help his game or give him any kind of advantage, he just wanted to make Chrissy look stupid for playing a fake idol. That's just personal, nothing else.

He was accused of that, but couldn't Mike or Ryan have picked it up as well?  I don't think planting a fake idol was a bad idea, but telling others about it wasn't good, it just made him look an even bigger player.

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What I don't get about Lauren's move is how she expected it to go. I mean, if she had taken Mike aside, talked to him, given him a way in, schmoozed him a bit, then given him half the idol as a sign of trust, then, well, maybe I could understand what she was thinking.

 

But lazily lying on the hammock, then saying out of nowhere "Oh, here, you can have this by the way" without context, or discussion afterward, I don't get at all.

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2 hours ago, amazingracefan said:

Lauren could have looked for another white shell and given Mike that instead.

And another thing about that stupid shell idol...

Could Mike have thrown it into the fire because he thought it was fake?  If Mike is a Survivor superfan - or even a casual fan - and another player hands him a seashell and says, "this is part of my idol, it's for you...the other part is a string and I have it"...why should Mike believe that?  It's kind of a stretch that a random seashell could be part of an idol in the first place...almost as big a stretch as a face carved into a stick.

But that's one of my problems with this season - idols are everywhere, and they don't even have to look like idols anymore.  Mike should comb the beach for another pretty seashell or a random piece of crap, hand it to Ben and say, "this is part of another idol.  I have the string.  Don't tell anyone."  I mean...sheesh.

8 minutes ago, Charlesman said:

What I don't get about Lauren's move is how she expected it to go. I mean, if she had taken Mike aside, talked to him, given him a way in, schmoozed him a bit, then given him half the idol as a sign of trust, then, well, maybe I could understand what she was thinking.

 

But lazily lying on the hammock, then saying out of nowhere "Oh, here, you can have this by the way" without context, or discussion afterward, I don't get at all.

Neither do I.  It was so out of context.  Between leaving the extra vote back at camp and handing Mike half of her idol, I just have no clue what Lauren's game was all about.  I honestly thought she was running the show.

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1 hour ago, amazingracefan said:

He was accused of that, but couldn't Mike or Ryan have picked it up as well?  I don't think planting a fake idol was a bad idea, but telling others about it wasn't good, it just made him look an even bigger player.

I agree with the previous poster who said that Ben was mean-spirited with respect to the idol.  I 100% agree that he was making it personal.  Didn't he say something like "I hope Chrissy finds it and tries to use it"?   He singled her out as someone he wanted embarrassed.  That's personal.

Now I am wondering what became of the idol that Ryan secretly gifted to Chrissy in the first episode.  She didn't use it.  Does she still have it?  After learning about Ben's fake idol, wouldn't it be awesome if she pulled it out and put it on at tribal, in a Tony Vlachos or Joe "go ahead and vote for me, I have an idol" move?   Only she and Ryan would know that it no longer has any power.  If Chrissy does this and manages to turn it into a Ben eviction, I'd do the Snoopy happy dance.

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1 hour ago, amazingracefan said:

He was accused of that, but couldn't Mike or Ryan have picked it up as well?  I don't think planting a fake idol was a bad idea, but telling others about it wasn't good, it just made him look an even bigger player.

He was accused of it because he specifically mentioned Chrissy when going to plant it. Sure, the other two could have found it. But I bet if Chrissy had been evicted last week, he would not have bothered.

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4 hours ago, blackwing said:

Now I am wondering what became of the idol that Ryan secretly gifted to Chrissy in the first episode.  She didn't use it.  Does she still have it? 

It could only be used for the first tribal council. When she didn't use it, it became null and void.

Edited by eel2178

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1 minute ago, eel2178 said:

It could only be use for the first tribal council. When she didn't use it, it became null and void.

But if she still has it, she can plant it as a fake idol.

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Lauren's ponderosa vid talked about the fake idol, Lauren said that it was meant for Joe first to embarrassed him, and the other jurors laughed about it.

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6 hours ago, Gummo said:

Remember when there were challenges that tested memory and knowledge of local culture? Now it's 'swim and do a puzzle' or 'stand there until you fall over.' The creativity is just stunning, isn't it?

Remember when a reward was one slice of pizza and a 3 minute phone call home? Or a beer and 10 minutes of TV time with Jeff? I'm tired of every reward being a huge meal or advantage in the game. I'd really like to see a "back to basics" season.

Edited by eel2178
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Just now, eel2178 said:
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Now I am wondering what became of the idol that Ryan secretly gifted to Chrissy in the first episode.  She didn't use it.  Does she still have it? 

It could only be use for the first tribal council. When she didn't use it, it became null and void.

Right, but if she is still physically in possession of it, it could be used as an idol decoy since only she and Ryan know about it and its special set of instructions. 

On the topic of other fake idols, how do they always have so much material laying around for people to make idols out of? 

Quote

 

What I don't get about Lauren's move is how she expected it to go. I mean, if she had taken Mike aside, talked to him, given him a way in, schmoozed him a bit, then given him half the idol as a sign of trust, then, well, maybe I could understand what she was thinking.

But lazily lying on the hammock, then saying out of nowhere "Oh, here, you can have this by the way" without context, or discussion afterward, I don't get at all.

 

That was so odd. It was one of those moves that I thought (hoped) would be one of those seemingly crazy moves that would ultimately work out (sometimes the things people do on this show seem completely wrong to me and then end up being the ultimate feather in the cap move), but no dice. 

The recipient of it was the main problem, Dr Mike is not only not playing well, he's not playing with any kind of logic besides "I've seen this on TV and now I want to do it too!!" superfan goofiness. 

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11 minutes ago, eel2178 said:

Remember when a reward was one slice of pizza and a 3 minute phone call home? Or a beer and 10 minutes of TV time with Jeff? I'm tired of every reward being a huge meal or advantage in the game. I'd really like to see a "back to basics" season.

Yeah, but I also remember when a reward was a car.

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Earlier in the thread I commented that giving the idol piece to Mike was inexplicably dumb of Lauren, but I'm retracting that. It was still dumb in a "NEVER give your idol to someone else" sort of way, but there might be an explanation. Lauren may have traded all that stuff for the Ben votes, and, as has been pointed out, she got them. Her fatal flaw was that it did not occur to her that it was possible that Ben had an idol and did not tell her.

Lesson. You can never trust too much (unless you do and it works out). And that's why this game is delicious.

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I actually liked Chrissy less this episode than Ben.  Just because she was tricked in recent days (and it wasn't just Ben others were in on it, and it wasn't just her tricked) she refused to make a move on Lauren despite her advantages.  I wonder, going by the remarks on the 'mothering' comment, whether more women support Chrissy than Ben.  Chrissy just came across as angry in this episode.

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38 minutes ago, ljenkins782 said:

Right, but if she is still physically in possession of it, it could be used as an idol decoy since only she and Ryan know about it and its special set of instructions. 

Yes, that is what I was suggesting.  Ryan is Chrissy's only solid ally.  If I were Chrissy, and felt in danger at the next tribal, I'd pull it out and wear it and announce that I was going to use it for either myself or someone else.  Invite them to guess.  

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14 minutes ago, amazingracefan said:

I actually liked Chrissy less this episode than Ben.  Just because she was tricked in recent days (and it wasn't just Ben others were in on it, and it wasn't just her tricked) she refused to make a move on Lauren despite her advantages.  I wonder, going by the remarks on the 'mothering' comment, whether more women support Chrissy than Ben.  Chrissy just came across as angry in this episode.

I loathe Ben and I wasn't a fan of Chrissy before.  I still don't like her.  But if one of them has to win, I'd rather it be Chrissy.  I still think she is smug and I agree that her issue is that she is getting offended by people that are simply playing the game.  I think Ben communicated this in a jerk store way to Chrissy, but I did agree with his sentiment.  She  is angry and upset with moves made against her.  It reminds me very much of Stoopert during his first season when he angrily roared "WHO VOTED FOR ME" after a TC in which he got votes.  She seems to have a similar sense of entitlement that he did.  Like they were already the ordained winner and how dare anyone stand in the way of that destiny.

But like I said, if it came down to Ben or her as the winner, I would prefer her.

Unfortunately I think they all have faults.  If I was a juror, I would hold my nose and ask the spirit to move me and randomly vote for one of them.  

Ben - DICK

Chrissy - smug

Devin - conceited, "they don't know how good I am at this game!"

Mike - idiotic, clueless, cartoon character tool

Ashley - useless

Ryan - not as smart as he thinks he is

 

I guess Ryan or Ashley for the win?  Those two are the least offensive to me at this point.  But they all suck.  Worst final 6 ever in my book.

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5 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

What she should have done is keep her immunity idol and use it at tribal. Hell put it on before the vote so people knows she is using it. Then she is safe and Ben votes for Chrissy. When Ben plays his idol, Chrissy goes home. Lauren is safe and she has her advantage, Ben is still there but Chrissy is gone.

If only any of them were that smart to figure that out.

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Negative Nelly signing in.

I'm so sick of the elapsed time endurance tests.  But I guess when you get down to the final seven there's only so much you can do.  But they bore me out of my skull.

I had hopes Chrissy would get sent packing, but it wasn't to be.  I just don't like her.

Is the tribe number reduced to where we can't hope for a Survivor auction?  Those are my favorite episodes.

Right now I'm rooting for Devon, so he'll probably go home next week.

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3 hours ago, Bouffe said:

I think it's human nature. It's like people waiting to turn left in their car at an intersection, complaining about the asshole that went through the intersection late. All they did was doing the same thing the one turning left wanted to do; still go through the intersection when the red comes on. You (the general you) are a lying bag of turd when you manipulate and lie to the other castaways, but if I do it, it's ok because it is me.

I agree with your point but, for the record, in that traffic situation the car running the light going straight is in the wrong so the left turner has a legitimate gripe.  Lol

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When Lauren said that her sister had to drag her to a casting call and that it was her sister who was the real survivor fan, some of her actions and attitudes during the game started to make sense to me.  If she wasn't a real fan, she may not have been aware how many idols are available or how easily alliances change.  It was interesting to watch her during the family visit-when each family member came out, everyone clapped for everyone else except for Lauren.  She just stood there with her arms crossed.  She never really seemed to go out of her way to develop her social game.  She expressed her annoyance with tribe mates earlier in the game and didn't seem to know how to really bring in Mike as an ally outside of giving him half of her idol.

I liked Ben's intuition that his alliance was going to turn on him.  And, I really appreciate the fact that he kept his idol secret.   I would be very happy if he won.

I think that Ryan just doesn't have the energy to strategize and play.   Although I do think they had to change the reward challenge, I think they had to change it due to his weakened physical state (they do not want another "Caleb" medical emergency).  I'm surprised his dad didn't react more when he saw Ryan's emaciated state.  If Ryan makes it to the end I hope he wins, or at least gets several votes.  To be trying to play hard, last in the endurance competition as long as he did, and remain loyal to Chrissy while in his current physical state deserves some reward or recognition.

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7 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

Ryan's playing a quietly good game, he doesn't overreact when things don't go his way (ahem, Chrissy) ...

I think Ryan has been playing a horrible game, but I do appreciate the way he has reacted to the blindsides and his alliance deteriorating. It's a far cry from how badly he reacted to betraying Ali. Maybe he's only acting well becasue he's too tired and hungry to be mad anymore!

1 hour ago, ljenkins782 said:

On the topic of other fake idols, how do they always have so much material laying around for people to make idols out of? 

I'm assuming Production is leaving things there because they want them to create fake idols. Which is another reminder that this is a TV show first and foremost.

I forgot to mention in my first post how much I hate Mike. I really hate Mike. I don't know if there's ever been a more arrogant stupid player ever. Maybe Russell, but somehow Mike seems even worse than him. I'm astonished.

Edited by peachmangosteen
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Sigh.  Just when I was really rooting for you, there you go Lauren.  I can't quibble too much, since you were eliminated by someone who knew how to keep his mouth shut.  I thought you were smarter than that.

Speaking of smarter than that, a bunch of us were wondering what on earth prompted you to just gift Dr. Mike with half of your immunity idol?  It seemed to have come out of the blue.  Was it bad editing?  Had you been trying to make a deal with Mike, and he asked for a signal of trust, so you pulled out half of your idol for him?  Did the sun get in your eyes while you were swinging there in the hammock and you thought you were giving it to Devin?

1 minute ago, seacliffsal said:

I'm surprised his dad didn't react more when he saw Ryan's emaciated state.

No kidding.  I'm surprised he didn't burst out crying, or at least make some sort of shocked exclamation about it.  But...Ryan did start this game skinny as a rail.  That seems to be his body type.  Remember that first challenge when he shockingly hauled that heavy weight up the structure hand over hand by himself with the rope?  Yeah.  Right now I don't think he could lift his own body weight out of the hammock.

I think the loved ones challenge was always going to be pulling marbles.  There was no other challenge set up in sight, not anywhere visible from the overhead drone shots either.  I'm not sure they can switch filming locations spontaneously like that, it takes a lot of planning.  Yeah, it was kind of lame, but it got to the best part of the loved one visit--picking other participants for the reward--much faster than a challenge would have.   So, four out of the seven got the reward.  Since the reward was back at camp, what did the other three do?  Were they corralled by production to a separate area where, *gasp*, Lauren found the clue and half an immunity idol?  Or were they just supposed to mill around camp, jealously observing the BBQ, so Lauren, Devin, and Ben wandered off on their own?

Chrissy and Ben are like two hissing cats circling each other right now.   I figure next week is going to be one, long, passive-aggressive cat fight between the two of them, and that's just based on what we saw last night, not on anything from the previews.  Which I missed.  Huh...

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7 minutes ago, HurricaneVal said:

Chrissy and Ben are like two hissing cats circling each other right now.   I figure next week is going to be one, long, passive-aggressive cat fight between the two of them ...

Not gonna lie, I might enjoy that.

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7 hours ago, iMonrey said:

His plan for his fake idol seemed really personal. The whole point of it seemed to be to embarrass Chrissy at tribal. That doesn't help his game or give him any kind of advantage, he just wanted to make Chrissy look stupid for playing a fake idol. That's just personal, nothing else.

I feel totally bad for anyone who likes him.  Once someone's called out on playing personally, they aren't winning.

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It’s funny how most of season was about Ryan running the game and being a potential (edit) winner. He’s been the narrator for most the season but lately he’s been on the bottom. Now, I’m trying to decide if he is able to scratch and claw his way to the Final 3 or not?! What are his odds? Do you think he makes the finals now? He was such a big part of the season even before it aired. Remember he was heavily promoted in the previews during the Game Changers Finale. Thoughts?

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5 hours ago, 303420 said:

Earlier in the thread I commented that giving the idol piece to Mike was inexplicably dumb of Lauren, but I'm retracting that. It was still dumb in a "NEVER give your idol to someone else" sort of way, but there might be an explanation. Lauren may have traded all that stuff for the Ben votes, and, as has been pointed out, she got them. Her fatal flaw was that it did not occur to her that it was possible that Ben had an idol and did not tell her.

Lesson. You can never trust too much (unless you do and it works out). And that's why this game is delicious.

But she didn't have them going into tribal.  See below.

5 hours ago, amazingracefan said:

I actually liked Chrissy less this episode than Ben.  Just because she was tricked in recent days (and it wasn't just Ben others were in on it, and it wasn't just her tricked) she refused to make a move on Lauren despite her advantages.  I wonder, going by the remarks on the 'mothering' comment, whether more women support Chrissy than Ben.  Chrissy just came across as angry in this episode.

But her group of three DID plan to vote Lauren out originally.  When the first convo started -- the one between Ryan and Mike -- you saw Ryan saying something to Ryan.  Then you heard or read (this part was subtitled for us to read) that Ryan replied that Mike should stay strong and go with the original choice.  Later in the convo he made it clear that was Lauren.  It seemed it was only when Devin came over and joined in that minds began to change to voting out Ben.

So it seemed that originally Chrissy, Ryan and Mike agreed that Lauren was the biggest threat due to her advantage since they had no idea that Ben had an idol.  What Devin threw into the mix I don't know but the opinion on who to vote for seemed to switch after he talked to Ryan.

1 hour ago, ByaNose said:

It’s funny how most of season was about Ryan running the game and being a potential (edit) winner. He’s been the narrator for most the season but lately he’s been on the bottom. Now, I’m trying to decide if he is able to scratch and claw his way to the Final 3 or not?! What are his odds? Do you think he makes the finals now? He was such a big part of the season even before it aired. Remember he was heavily promoted in the previews during the Game Changers Finale. Thoughts?

I think Ryan is in better shape right now than he has been the last few tribals.  With both Ben and Chrissy as bigger targets right now it looks good for him surviving next time around but hey I thought Lauren was on a cakewalk to the final three before this episode so what do I know.

Ryan had the narrator edit early but no more it seems.  And I don't know if a narrator edit is a winner's edit because I don't think he has a resume to top either Chrissy or Ben right now.  But I think he has a pretty good shot now to make the final three because he is no longer considered to be a mover and shaker and he can't win an immunity challenge if it was presented to him on a silver platter.  He is a safe guy to bring along with you or at least not vote out in the near future.  Barring endless advantages and idols and crap like that that has ruined Survivor of course.

As to why he has become a back bencher I agree his lack of physical reserve after 30 days may be a part of it.  He was a real "hustler" early on and now he is more a "stroller" at best with a very low energy level.

Edited by green
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On 12/7/2017 at 10:35 AM, Pondlass1 said:

I wish they'd try for just one season.  An advantage-free season could be interesting.  Maybe not tell the contestants until they've dug up the whole island looking.

Never gonna do it.  The HII is one of the prime producers of the beloved #BLINDSIDE!, many of which are ... not actually blindsides.  They're also a standard pagong-buster, and (it has crossed my mind more than once) an easy way to give a doomed player a second chance at life, likely by sending a PA to stare pointedly at some log or random patch in the sand.  Without them we'd be back to just good ole alliance making and maintaining, which I'll admit can get pretty boring week after week.  They are getting ridiculously common but I'll give the producers credit for trying new things, although many of them (the extra vote, the idol of power) turn out to be useless.

Edited by henripootel
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2 hours ago, Star Aristille said:

I feel totally bad for anyone who likes him.  Once someone's called out on playing personally, they aren't winning.

And there have been comments here about how personal and vindictive Chrissy is for not picking Ben for the reward out of spite. 

Ben and Chrissy deserve each other. 

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On 12/6/2017 at 10:35 PM, mythoughtis said:

Both Ben and Chrissy are taking this game and everyone’s actions way too personally. They both have fallen into the Survivor hole of thinking people on their alliance are always going to be in their alliance. Thus when a player betrays them, the betrayed one demands an explanation as if they are owed one. As if the other player was supposed to sacrifice their game to save them. 

I'm definitely on the side of saying "This is a game and you can't be mad at people for playing it" but I also think sportsmanship matters -- to me, that includes understanding that a win for you is a loss for your opponent, and not rubbing it in their face or being insensitive about that. Neither Chrissy or Ben are covering themselves in glory when it comes to sportsmanship, but I also understand that, when you play a game where people win by ganging up on each other, it can feel a lot more personal.

17 hours ago, millennium said:

Me too.   I don't get it.  There are people whose "loved ones" (hate that phrase now) get sent off to prison or war or wherever and when they finally reunite after three or six months it's nothing like the spectacle of a Survivor loved ones episode.

 

Ever since this show began, I've always said that I wouldn't want anyone to come visit me if I were competing, because it would be a distraction. I can understand the POV where it's an advantage to have someone who's not part of the game who you can talk to about your stress, but I feel like they already have that when they film their interviews each day.

On the other hand though, if you're not used to being separated from your family or the people you're closest to, the first few days of that separation are the most painful -- when you combine that pain with the stress of being on a physically and mentally exhausting gameshow where everyone you interact with is an opponent, I can understand crying about it.

What I dislike most about the loved ones visits is the way the show taunts people who are very vulnerable with the possibility of seeing someone they love and then rips it away.

15 hours ago, Jodithgrace said:

Lauren gave it to him so that half of the idol was his to do with as he pleased. You can't steal somebody's idol or destroy it against their will, but if they give it to you, all bets are off. Of course, it was a stupid move, not to mention finding it and immediately announcing it to all. It's so frustrating when people are compelled to share their idols and advantages with anyone...even their very BFF in the game.

I would have liked to hear more of the discussion Lauren and Mike had about the idol for exactly this reason. I also get that it would take away from the immersion and stuff if we saw exactly how production explains things to the contestants, but, on occasions like this, I always wish that I had known the full set of rules.

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12 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

I've had a love-hate relationship with Ben since the beginning of the season, but last night, when he thwarted what would have been a unanimous vote to send him packing by playing the idol no one knew he had because he was smart enough to not tell anyone makes him my favorite to win.

Lauren was my favorite to win until this episode and all of her careful planning and maneuvering completely and inexplicably evaporated with the conversation at the well (the getting caught part - sloppy), sharing that she had an advantage and an idol, giving part of the idol to Mike for no apparent reason other to shut his trap, and failing to take the extra vote to TC. She knew Ben knew she was out to get him (see the convo at the well) and while she didn't know he had an idol (which, again, good for Ben for keeping that 100% under wraps), there is always that risk and she could have thrown a vote Chrissy or Ryan's wayjust in case  to at least force a tie and likely Chrissy would have gone home on revote.

Yeah, I'm with you. I was all mad for Lauren to win, but have always had a soft spot for Ben since that scene on the beach in the water early on... I realized last night when it was either Lauren or Ben going (or it could have been Chrissy, I should be so lucky) that I actually wanted Ben to stay more, weirdly. Lauren was playing so well and then one bad move and weird decision after another. She left well! I love a good-spirited final confessional. And she's shed a bit of keg, so I think she's done well out of her time on the show. I'd really like to see her play again some day.

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5 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I'm assuming Production is leaving things there because they want them to create fake idols. Which is another reminder that this is a TV show first and foremost.

Such was my assumption too.  Seems to me that the best way to do this would be to make a fake and wrap it up in the cover from a legit idol (assuming you can lay hands on one), then 'hide' it badly for someone to find.  Question: has anyone done this?  If not, I wonder if they're being told not to.  Seems like it'd be legit to me.

5 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I forgot to mention in my first post how much I hate Mike. I really hate Mike. I don't know if there's ever been a more arrogant stupid player ever. Maybe Russell, but somehow Mike seems even worse than him. I'm astonished.

Surprising how fast he gets on ones tits.  He really seems determined to be 'memorable'.

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12 hours ago, sadiegirl1999 said:

I hate calling shenanigans on things but 1-you need the other half of the idol, 2-it's right there, easy to grab and 3-it JUST SO HAPPENED TO BE IN FRONT OF LAURA'S PLATFORM? 

What if it had been in front of someone else's? That really (almost) screams producer interference. 

Jeff did NOT say--or it was not aired--"we'll draw for spots". 

It smells fishy to me. 

<putting on tinfoil hat> 

This challenge had to have custom spots premade for each contestant, so that their arms were just touching the disks when held out straight.

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11 hours ago, Charlesman said:

What I don't get about Lauren's move is how she expected it to go. I mean, if she had taken Mike aside, talked to him, given him a way in, schmoozed him a bit, then given him half the idol as a sign of trust, then, well, maybe I could understand what she was thinking.

 

But lazily lying on the hammock, then saying out of nowhere "Oh, here, you can have this by the way" without context, or discussion afterward, I don't get at all.

This show is edited.  I am sure such a discussion took place.  They just edited it out.

9 hours ago, eel2178 said:

Remember when a reward was one slice of pizza and a 3 minute phone call home? Or a beer and 10 minutes of TV time with Jeff? I'm tired of every reward being a huge meal or advantage in the game. I'd really like to see a "back to basics" season.

Remember when they gave them raincoats and canned goods and let them sleep at tribal if it was raining?  On the first season?  There's no basics to go back to.

1 hour ago, henripootel said:

Such was my assumption too.  Seems to me that the best way to do this would be to make a fake and wrap it up in the cover from a legit idol (assuming you can lay hands on one), then 'hide' it badly for someone to find.  Question: has anyone done this?  If not, I wonder if they're being told not to.  Seems like it'd be legit to me.

I think they have, but of course I can't remember any examples now.  But I feel like someone did this in a relatively recent season.

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