S02.E06: Vergangenheit

[formerlyfreedom]

 

Quote

A secret World War II document opens Elizabeth's eyes to grim realities about a family member. The Duke of Windsor campaigns to re-enter public life.

 

[PeterPirate]

I am so monumentally thankful for this episode.  They didn't hold back anything.  It's a reminder that even a head of state can betray his country--wittingly or not--if it suits his own personal ambitions.  

I recall seeing comments from people about how the show went easy on David Windsor Saxe-Coburg-Gotha during the first season. But as I understand it, he was greatly beloved by the British public at the time. So they really set things up for this knockout punch. 

It was good to see Churchill and George VI again.  I'm also thankful for the straightforward portrayal of Billy Graham.  In the pantheon of American evangelists, he's about the only one with high degree of integrity (imo).  And since this was part of the episode, I'll add that my own understanding of Christian forgiveness is that a person seeking it is required to confess and repent--anything less is cheap grace, and David did neither.  This is apart from the issue that Elizabeth faced about whether to grant forgiveness. 

Edited December 9, 2017 by PeterPirate

[Roseanna]

I think that this was the best episode.

There were two parallel plots: Duke of Windsor became so bored that he tried with the help of his friend to find a job from the British government and in the same time historian wanted to publish German documents that revealed his dealings with Nazis. The duke showed again his famous charm and ability to explain everything to his own favor and Elizabeth, just after listening to Billy Graham, wanted to forgive him as a Christian should, but then Philip urged her to consult Tommy Lascelles who told her more.

I once heard a priest say that forgiveness doesn't mean that you have to sozialize with the person who has hurt you, it means only that you give up from revenge. 

[PinkRibbons]

The fact that there was an opportunity to watch the Queen Mother, Tommy Lascelles and Prince Philip getting shitty drunk together and it wasn't shown was a travesty.

[Bama]

I think QE has a bit of a crush on Ole Billy.

And I recently watched a BBC documentary on Netflix which explains the truth of the Duke of Windsor's relationship with Nazi Germany.

One of the British historians dryly said that Wallis Simpson should be the fourth plinth in Trafalgar Square.

It's a horror to think how WWII might have gone down had the Duke remained king.

[Mindthinkr]

What an eye opener this episode was! I found it to be good storytelling and the images of the real Ex-King at the end packed a punch to cement what we had just seen. 

Does the Queen always tote a purse? I've read that she keeps little more than a fresh pair of gloves and perhaps a lipstick in it. 

[roamyn]

This is a little off topic, and I apologize.

Forgiveness means different things to different people.  We shouldn't downplay when someone says they forgive a wrong-doer.

The Amish forgave the guy who killed their girls, and even went to his funeral.  Does their forgiveness mean less because he couldn't ask for it?

So if QE2 says she forgave the DoW, we should believe her.  After all she's very religious.

Edited December 9, 2017 by roamyn

[JustaPerson]

Philip's disdainful asides when the Duke's request was first brought up at the beginning of the episode were hilarious

[irisheyes]

17 hours ago, PinkRibbons said:

The fact that there was an opportunity to watch the Queen Mother, Tommy Lascelles and Prince Philip getting shitty drunk together and it wasn't shown was a travesty.

Please tell me that it’s a scene that was on the cutting room floor, and, someday, we’ll see it. 

[Roseanna]

15 hours ago, roamyn said:

This is a little off topic, and I apologize.

Forgiveness means different things to different people.  We shouldn't downplay when someone says they forgive a wrong-doer.

The Amish forgave the guy who killed their girls, and even went to his funeral.  Does their forgiveness mean less because he couldn't ask for it?

So if QE2 says she forgave the DoW, we should believe her.  After all she's very religious.

But in this show Elizabeth said just the opposite: that she would not forgive Duke of Windsor. To him this meant that she would not let him return to Britain nor let him get a job from the government.

Going to the funeral is an easier thing because then the person who has hurt you or your loved ones can hurt no more. But what if he is alive - is it right to let him do it again?      

Edited December 10, 2017 by Roseanna
correcting grammar

[Calvada]

I'm wondering how often after this the Duke of Windsor was permitted to return to Great Britain.  I know he came back for something to honor his mother, Queen Mary, and that Wallis came with him then. Was that the first time that Elizabeth met her?  I think he also returned for Marina, Duchess of Kent's funeral in 1968, but I'm not sure if Wallis came with him.  Off to Google . . .   Update - the Queen met Wallis in 1965 when David came to London to have eye operations.  The Queen Mary memorial was in 1967.  

[Helena Dax]

Philip and Margaret can be big babies sometimes, but the only truly despicable guy in this TV show is Uncle Nazi. His lack of remorse is astonishing. I'm sure he wishes sometimes he hadn't abdicated, but just because what it means to him. He doesn't care about his brother, he doesn't care about anyone but himself, his horrible wife and those dogs. And I can't even sympathize with his lack of purpose, because he could have done something useful. He seems to like animals, so he could have worked with some charities, raising funds and things like that. They could have adopted some kid. But he's absolutely, completely useless. I loved when Elizabeth eviscerated him.

Philip was great in this episode. And add me to the list of people who feel robbed because we didn't get to see QM, Lascelles and Philip getting hammered and bitching about Uncle Nazi. Also, the actor who plays Tommy Lascelles is amazing. He has such a presence. Love him. 

[roamyn]

Pip Torrens plays Tommy Lascalles.  I never saw him b4, and aft S1, I searched out some other things he was in.

[formerlyfreedom]

59 minutes ago, Helena Dax said:

And add me to the list of people who feel robbed because we didn't get to see QM, Lascelles and Philip getting hammered and bitching about Uncle Nazi. Also, the actor who plays Tommy Lascelles is amazing. He has such a presence. Love him. 

This is another* web series they need to create. QM and Lascelles getting drunk with other characters.

*I say 'another' because I mention the first in the Episode 8 topic, but no spoilers!

[Peace 47]

Amazing pacing of this episode.  So many scene cuts, but it just flowed like water.

I’m so glad that they explored Edward’s Nazi collusion.  They really have done a great job with this character in the show.  He is so slick and smooth that you can see why he is popular amongst his society clique, continually saying anything to put himself in the best light (or in a victim light).  His letters to his wife/ those who knew him best (like Tommy) reveal his true character (or lack thereof), though.  When the rest of his family made real wartime sacrifice (not to mention the horrible, devastating toll of the war on his people at large), for him to have thrown in his hat with the Nazis is beyond the pale.  Those real pictures of him at the end playing nice with Hitler made me well up a bit.  It’s so horrible.

I don’t know Billy Graham from that era very well, but I thought the look and sound of him was spot on from what I do know. 

Loved Tommy’s eyeroll when the Queen moved his battle figurine and he had to move it back.  Like others, I am distraught we didn’t get the Tommy/Queen Mother/ Philip drinking scene.

I’d be idly curious to know if the American soldier at the very beginning of the episode was a British actor doing an American accent.  It was SO AMERICAN that it made me laugh.

Great episode.

Edited December 10, 2017 by Peace 47

[Calamity Jane]

So very pleased that they took the time to address the issue of Uncle Nazi's treason before and during the war.  (Thank you, thank  you, whoever came up with Uncle Nazi!!)  Still have some questions, but the big things were there.  

It's a little hard for me to believe that Elizabeth wasn't told until so long after the war what her uncle got up to then. It seems she would need to know why keeping him away, far away, was so important, even years later!  They put him in fairly high-level military jobs at first, and he was spectacularly indiscreet and lazy, then when he got sent to Lisbon he was actively trying to work towards being restored to the throne with Hitler's help, and then he had the nerve to bitch about being sent to the Bahamas. And he clearly never gave up on the idea of somehow sneaking back in to some position of power - wouldn't put it past him to have been plotting even during the 60s to get the throne back. The Windsors overall have never seemed particularly bright, but this one was a sociopath to boot.  

The other thing they didn't mention directly was whether the Marburg papers were made public then (I certainly don't remember it if they were), or if it was after the East German papers were found after the reunification of Germanys in the 90s.  I need to find that out for myself, obviously!  

And, lastly, I don't remember anyone saying in this episode that he should have been recalled during the war and tried for treason.  I guess it was too complicated politically, but that surely would have taken the shine off his reputation and silenced most of those who wanted him to come back.  Clearly they knew quite a lot before those papers were found, that's why he was shipped thousands of miles away to a place where he couldn't wreak too much havoc.  Surely the king had to know.  Well, if Uncle Nazi was miserable in Paris without a job, it was all entirely his own fault.  I kept thinking of how much good he could have done in the world (like someone above who mentioned animal charities).  After the war, France was pretty devastated, and there was plenty to do for anyone who was so inclined.  

Altogether, though, a very satisfying episode that I enjoyed completely.  

[QuinnM]

Wait, are we hoping and wishing there was a deleted scene of Mom, Tom, and Phip in their cups or was this a real deleted scene?

 

I remember remarking about the French in WWII and it was pointed out that it wasn’t an accident that the Duke ended up living there.  The history professor said that it was that or Brazil.  And the Marburg papers were published.  There is so much documented history from the Nazi archives that it’s overwhelming.

I did like that they really laid out the Duke’s duplicity.  I always thought he really wasn’t a Nazi he was just so selfish he didn’t care what he had to do to as long as he was King again.

And isn’t his casual style horrid?  Those plaid pants, gag.

[PinkRibbons]

I keep thinking wondering what exactly Windsor thought would happen to his brother+family if overthrown. For me personally it conjures up horrific images from a basement in 1918 with Margaret and Elizabeth instead of the four Romanov girls. Or if we wanted to be specifically British, of two Princesses in a Tower.

Like any Jew born in the last century, I've grown up with the holocaust haunting a corner of my mind. I can't hear any story without the very clear knowledge that but for an accident of time and place, it would have been me. Me that died in any number of horrific ways. Me that starved and slaved and lost everyone I ever loved. I expect I'm projecting, but I watched the dawning horror on Elizabeth thinking she was imagining how close she and her family came to a terrible end at the willing hands of a member of their own family.

I wouldn't exactly expect the Nazis to consider how in the civilized modern world, one no longer kills off "extra" Royals.
 

[anna0852]

This series is really presenting an appalling picture of Elizabeth being unprepared for the throne she was going to inherit. She should have been made well aware of what Uncle Nazi was up to. Not to mention the education issues that were raised last season.

[andromeda331]

6 hours ago, Calamity Jane said:

So very pleased that they took the time to address the issue of Uncle Nazi's treason before and during the war.  (Thank you, thank  you, whoever came up with Uncle Nazi!!)  Still have some questions, but the big things were there.  

It's a little hard for me to believe that Elizabeth wasn't told until so long after the war what her uncle got up to then. It seems she would need to know why keeping him away, far away, was so important, even years later!  They put him in fairly high-level military jobs at first, and he was spectacularly indiscreet and lazy, then when he got sent to Lisbon he was actively trying to work towards being restored to the throne with Hitler's help, and then he had the nerve to bitch about being sent to the Bahamas. And he clearly never gave up on the idea of somehow sneaking back in to some position of power - wouldn't put it past him to have been plotting even during the 60s to get the throne back. The Windsors overall have never seemed particularly bright, but this one was a sociopath to boot.  

The other thing they didn't mention directly was whether the Marburg papers were made public then (I certainly don't remember it if they were), or if it was after the East German papers were found after the reunification of Germanys in the 90s.  I need to find that out for myself, obviously!  

And, lastly, I don't remember anyone saying in this episode that he should have been recalled during the war and tried for treason.  I guess it was too complicated politically, but that surely would have taken the shine off his reputation and silenced most of those who wanted him to come back.  Clearly they knew quite a lot before those papers were found, that's why he was shipped thousands of miles away to a place where he couldn't wreak too much havoc.  Surely the king had to know.  Well, if Uncle Nazi was miserable in Paris without a job, it was all entirely his own fault.  I kept thinking of how much good he could have done in the world (like someone above who mentioned animal charities).  After the war, France was pretty devastated, and there was plenty to do for anyone who was so inclined.  

Altogether, though, a very satisfying episode that I enjoyed completely.  

That's the part I had trouble with. I can see why her father might not have told her. But find it hard to believe Queen Mother didn't tell her about it or bring it up in any rants she had about David. I doubt she held back. I don't see Tommy not telling Elizabeth to prepare her for dealing with David. But I am still glad we had this episode. David was awful. 

4 hours ago, anna0852 said:

This series is really presenting an appalling picture of Elizabeth being unprepared for the throne she was going to inherit. She should have been made well aware of what Uncle Nazi was up to. Not to mention the education issues that were raised last season.

That part still amazes me. After being unprepared to be King, that George didn't do anything to prepare his daughter for the role. 

[Roseanna]

10 hours ago, Helena Dax said:

Philip and Margaret can be big babies sometimes, but the only truly despicable guy in this TV show is Uncle Nazi. His lack of remorse is astonishing. I'm sure he wishes sometimes he hadn't abdicated, but just because what it means to him. He doesn't care about his brother, he doesn't care about anyone but himself, his horrible wife and those dogs. And I can't even sympathize with his lack of purpose, because he could have done something useful. He seems to like animals, so he could have worked with some charities, raising funds and things like that. They could have adopted some kid. But he's absolutely, completely useless. 

Yes, his lack of remorse is the crux of matter.

Many people, also inside the British government, had sympathy toward the Nazis, believing them to be the bulwark against Communists, and/or preferred peace to war and some were even willing to make a peace after France had fallen in 1940, but most of them did their duty during the war.      

7 hours ago, Peace 47 said:

I’m so glad that they explored Edward’s Nazi collusion.  They really have done a great job with this character in the show.  He is so slick and smooth that you can see why he is popular amongst his society clique, continually saying anything to put himself in the best light (or in a victim light).  His letters to his wife/ those who knew him best (like Tommy) reveal his true character (or lack thereof), though.  When the rest of his family made real wartime sacrifice (not to mention the horrible, devastating toll of the war on his people at large), for him to have thrown in his hat with the Nazis is beyond the pale.  Those real pictures of him at the end playing nice with Hitler made me well up a bit.  It’s so horrible.

I also think that the writer has made really a good job. After telling what the Germans documents said about the duke's relations with Germans during the WW2, he was let to present his own interpretation and then let Tommy Lascelles present his.

Because I have read history, I don't buy all what was said: the documents about the conversations themselves don't "tell the truth" as the writer always interprets what the other party has meant with his words and often wants to how the recipient how good job he has made. 

Also Lascelles isn't impartial as he was greatly biased against Edward VIII already as Prince of Wales and then as King.  Only a part  what he tell Elizabeth in the show can proved by evidence, the other things were conclusions based on coincidence.

Before all, treason is a political crime. If the political system is overthrown, those who have been earlier condemned as traitors for helping the enemy, become heroes and martyrs, f.ex. those Germans who resisted the Nazis or even revealed the German war plans to the Allies.

That said, your analysis about the duke's character is splendid. He is completely unable to compare which of moral principles is more important: "I love for my wife and want her to have a title and position that my family and government wrongly took from her" or "I love my country and I would not betray it".

I also wonder how much his talk about putting peace first is actually due to his fear of losing his own priviledges. I stronly suspect it would be okay for him that Germany would have fought against Soviet Union and won its war of annihilation.  

[AttackTurtle]

I loved this episode enough to view it twice already.   I think the show has actually gone to easy on Edward and his beloved Peaches.    

Having read that Ms. Simpson put American diplomats lives at risk during WWII to retrieve her favorite bikini, I think she and Eddie were probably very compatible.

[wlk68]

Best episode of S2 so far. I knew about all of this prior to viewing it but damn, they did a good job. Pulled no punches. And then to throw in all the real photos at the end. Chilling to imagine how WWII could've gone down if he hadn't abdicated. Makes my blood run cold.

Edited December 10, 2017 by wlk68

[MissL]

13 hours ago, Peace 47 said:

 

Loved Tommy’s eyeroll when the Queen moved his battle figurine and he had to move it back.  Like others, I am distraught we didn’t get the Tommy/Queen Mother/ Philip drinking scene.

Great episode.

Oh my I laughed SO HARD when he did that. I would have done the same thing because she put it back in the wrong spot.  Of course I'm also the person whose coworkers moved stuff around on her desk before she came to work in the morning and watched as she moved it all right back while laughing at me madly.

Definitley sad we missed the drinking party and I'm loving Philip with a bit of a sense of humor for a change... "gold star from Jesus" indeed. 

[Mindthinkr]

6 minutes ago, wlk68 said:

Best episode of S2 so far. I knew about all of this prior to viewing it but damn, they did a good job. Pulled no punches. And then to throw in all the real photos at the end. Chilling to imagine how WWII could've gone down if he hadn't abdicated. Makes my blood run cold.

Sorry if this is off topic but there is a show that shows what the world could have been like if the Allies had lost WWII. Man in the High Castle on Amazon. 

[Eri]

I concur with everyone else's views - this is definitely one of the more memorable episodes of the season.  It's always interesting to learn more about the Duke of Whinge-sor and his slippery past.

And I love love love the actor who plays him! He portrays such a good "villain" and still makes me feel a small portion of empathy for him no matter his unforgivable actions, maybe it's the facial expressions? After the Queen told him firmly where to go, he looked embarrassed and ready to weep as he was leaving the country with his tail between his legs, and well he should! Now he'll be stuck in his lavish home with a wife who barely tolerates him leading a monotonous life of costume galas, gardening and doggy birthday parties. How sad for you! *eye roll*

Tommy Lascelles is a hoot and a half whenever he's on-screen. I swear the phrases "Duke of Windsor" and "HRH, the Former King" must be trigger phrases to turn the mustache into a bristley scowl - still, it's nice that he feels indebted to help the family out even in his retirement years.

Edited December 10, 2017 by Eri

[Jodithgrace]

The way I see it, "The Crown," could never forgive the Duke of Windsor. After all, he betrayed the country. But Elizabeth, personally, probably did forgive "Uncle Nazi." (great title) Which is why he was allowed back in for funerals, etc. Officially, he remained persona non grata for the rest of his life. 

I remember the Duke and Duchess of Windsor, from when I was a kid. They were considered the epitome of style. However, it wasn't until i was much older that I got at least part of the story. I had heard he was a Nazi sympathiser, but had no idea of the full extent until now. Good lord! 

I really appreciate the glimpses of real history that we are getting this season. Like the previous episode, I was wondering if that Lord whatshisname was an actual charactor or just a composite of Elizabeth's critics of the period, but no, at the end we got to learn all about him. And then in this epsiode they showed actual photographs of DOW with Hitler. Incredible! Well done, show.

[Lillith]

Ok this show, as an Anglophile, history nerd and lover of costume dramas is just hitting all of my sweet spots!! 

I'd read about the Duchess of Windsor and knew she was suspected of banging Von Ribbentrop and I knew he was a sympathizer. But somehow I didn't know, or forgot that he was fine with his brother being overthrown so he could take the crown back. How did he thing that was going to work? And being ok with his subjects being killed to achieve it?  And seeing those real photos at the end, some of which I'd seen previously but now put into full context was chilling to me. 

Claire Foy in particular is a treasure, but the whole cast is just impeccable. I can't gush about this show enough, it's truly top notch. 

[andromeda331]

3 minutes ago, Lillith said:

Ok this show, as an Anglophile, history nerd and lover of costume dramas is just hitting all of my sweet spots!! 

I'd read about the Duchess of Windsor and knew she was suspected of banging Von Ribbentrop and I knew he was a sympathizer. But somehow I didn't know, or forgot that he was fine with his brother being overthrown so he could take the crown back. How did he thing that was going to work? And being ok with his subjects being killed to achieve it?  And seeing those real photos at the end, some of which I'd seen previously but now put into full context was chilling to me. 

Claire Foy in particular is a treasure, but the whole cast is just impeccable. I can't gush about this show enough, it's truly top notch. 

That's what I want to know. People were sympathetic to him but did he really think they'd still be sympathetic after his brother is overthrown and whatever would happen to him and his family? That they'd accept him as King after that? 

[Ellaria]

2 hours ago, Jodithgrace said:

I remember the Duke and Duchess of Windsor, from when I was a kid. They were considered the epitome of style. However, it wasn't until i was much older that I got at least part of the story. I had heard he was a Nazi sympathiser, but had no idea of the full extent until now. Good lord! 

I remember them as well. Years ago they were definitely referenced as the "epitome of style" and also as a great love story. (The latter, as we know, is a bit of an exaggeration.)

However, my father - a WWII vet - was always honest that, in his opinion, the Duke was a Nazi sympathizer.  I am very glad that this show addressed this issue. While it didn't come as a surprise to me, I appreciate that they didn't mince words. And those photos at the end...wow! This was a great episode. It could stand alone from the series entirely. It is a great commentary on family loyalty, misguided ambition, selfishness, betrayal, self-preservation, etc.

 

23 hours ago, Helena Dax said:

And I can't even sympathize with his lack of purpose, because he could have done something useful. He seems to like animals, so he could have worked with some charities, raising funds and things like that. They could have adopted some kid. But he's absolutely, completely useless. 

This! I was thinking the exact same thing. With his money and his connections, he could have been a force for good but he chose a different path. History remembers him accordingly.

Edited December 11, 2017 by Ellaria Sand

[CloverTracey]

I just did internet search on "Marburg files", seem to have been released publicly in 1996, based on article in British newspaper.....finally, as a Christmas present to you all, I share the historical anecdote that the Duke of Windors beloved, and plentiful, doggie besties were in fact not house trained.  After watching this episode, I take pleasure in reflecting that, literally, the Dukes years in exile were spent, literally, surrounded by 

 

$&@!.   You are welcome, and happy Christmas to you all.

[dubbel zout]

I was surprised the government had no problems with the Duke of Windsor working again. Elizabeth by that point was firmly established as monarch, so it's unlikely he'd be any sort of threat that way, but to have a former king representing the government in any manner seems like playing with a bit of fire. And given his perpetual whining about money, I'd worry he might be making side deals. 

I loved Elizabeth's reply when David said he wanted the chance to serve England: "You had a chance. The greatest chance there is." Here's yet another person who wants the perks of royalty without having to put in the effort.

[Ina123]

8 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

I loved Elizabeth's reply when David said he wanted the chance to serve England: "You had a chance. The greatest chance there is."

I loved that response. I get chills when I think, "what if there had never been a Wallis Simpson?"

[Carolina Girl]

On 12/9/2017 at 4:25 PM, Helena Dax said:

Philip and Margaret can be big babies sometimes, but the only truly despicable guy in this TV show is Uncle Nazi. His lack of remorse is astonishing. I'm sure he wishes sometimes he hadn't abdicated, but just because what it means to him. He doesn't care about his brother, he doesn't care about anyone but himself, his horrible wife and those dogs. And I can't even sympathize with his lack of purpose, because he could have done something useful. He seems to like animals, so he could have worked with some charities, raising funds and things like that. They could have adopted some kid. But he's absolutely, completely useless. I loved when Elizabeth eviscerated him.

Philip was great in this episode. And add me to the list of people who feel robbed because we didn't get to see QM, Lascelles and Philip getting hammered and bitching about Uncle Nazi. Also, the actor who plays Tommy Lascelles is amazing. He has such a presence. Love him. 

 

That photo of Her Royal Bitchness Wallis Simpson smiling as she shakes Hitler's hand and the fact that jerk she married actually VISITED a Concentration Camp and wasn't repulsed summed them up to me.   The fact that these fascist sympathizers were the post-war toast of American and European society for decades afterward makes me sick to my stomach.  Didn't these people KNOW what he did - after all, even the British papers were given permisison to publish.  

Interesting that Netflix had a documentary about the Windors' Nazi sympathies that I watched on Friday night before hitting the binge watch of the Crown on Saturday morning made episode Six all the more interesting.  

[dubbel zout]

3 hours ago, Ina123 said:

I get chills when I think, "what if there had never been a Wallis Simpson?"

Edward VIII blew it so badly. By all accounts he had great personal charm and charisma—you can tell the queen is very fond of him on a familial level, and she was fine with "David" being the last of Prince Harry's given names, so there couldn't have been too much grudge-holding—but he was also colossally selfish and immature. And though he recognized that a life of leisure had its limits, he couldn't understand why a public position wouldn't be possible. So much wasted potential. (This is setting aside all the terrible Nazi stuff, of course.)

[Carolina Girl]

11 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Edward VIII blew it so badly. By all accounts he had great personal charm and charisma—you can tell the queen is very fond of him on a familial level, and she was fine with "David" being the last of Prince Harry's given names, so there couldn't have been too much grudge-holding—but he was also colossally selfish and immature. And though he recognized that a life of leisure had its limits, he couldn't understand why a public position wouldn't be possible. So much wasted potential. (This is setting aside all the terrible Nazi stuff, of course.)

I wonder sometimes if Edward really wanted to be King.  

I'm damn sure Wallis wanted to be QUEEN (despite her sweet lemons reasoning when she was told "no way")!

[greekmom]

On 12/9/2017 at 2:41 AM, Bama said:

And I recently watched a BBC documentary on Netflix which explains the truth of the Duke of Windsor's relationship with Nazi Germany.

Please advise which documentary this is! Thanks.

My overall thoughts on the episode was Phillip's attitude towards Uncle Nazi.  Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones and lets not forget his sister was also very heavy in the Nazi party due to her husband's involvement. 

I am not saying that Phillip shouldn't have a small opinion but compared to the Queen Mum and Tommy L. he really should have bit his tongue after voicing his first opinion.

[PeterPirate]

40 minutes ago, greekmom said:

Please advise which documentary this is! Thanks.

My overall thoughts on the episode was Phillip's attitude towards Uncle Nazi.  Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones and lets not forget his sister was also very heavy in the Nazi party due to her husband's involvement. 

I am not saying that Phillip shouldn't have a small opinion but compared to the Queen Mum and Tommy L. he really should have bit his tongue after voicing his first opinion.

It's called Edward VIII: The Nazi King.  The film is from 2009, but it appeared on Netflix just a couple weeks ago, which I don't think is a coincidence.  

As the title indicates, it is pretty heavy on proclaiming Edward as guilty as Tommy Lascelles says he was.  It does raise some doubt as to whether Edward deliberately gave some information to the Nazis or if he was just loose with his tongue.  

[Peace 47]

1 hour ago, greekmom said:

My overall thoughts on the episode was Phillip's attitude towards Uncle Nazi.  Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones and lets not forget his sister was also very heavy in the Nazi party due to her husband's involvement. 

The only thing that I would say is that the real Philip had legitimate grounds to be as contemptuous of Uncle Nazi as he was, given that Philip saw actual combat in WWII and served honorably to defend his country from people like Edward (who certainly engaged in some “treason-adjacent behavior” at the very least), whereas Philip’s sisters weren’t British citizens, right?

Edited December 11, 2017 by Peace 47

[Carolina Girl]

1 hour ago, greekmom said:

Please advise which documentary this is! Thanks.

My overall thoughts on the episode was Phillip's attitude towards Uncle Nazi.  Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones and lets not forget his sister was also very heavy in the Nazi party due to her husband's involvement. 

I am not saying that Phillip shouldn't have a small opinion but compared to the Queen Mum and Tommy L. he really should have bit his tongue after voicing his first opinion.

Edward VIII:  The Nazi King

Englightening.  And Disgusting.

[dubbel zout]

15 minutes ago, Peace 47 said:

The only thing that I would say is that the real Philip had legitimate grounds to be as contemptuous of Uncle Nazi as he was, given that Philip saw actual combat in WWII and served honorably to defend his country from people like Edward (who certainly engaged in some “treason-adjacent behavior” at the very least), whereas Philip’s sisters weren’t British citizens, right?

Philip's sisters weren't British citizens. And he's not responsible for their actions. They weren't invited to his wedding because of their wartime activities.

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, PeterPirate said:

It's called Edward VIII: The Nazi King.  The film is from 2009, but it appeared on Netflix just a couple weeks ago, which I don't think is a coincidence.  

As the title indicates, it is pretty heavy on proclaiming Edward as guilty as Tommy Lascelles says he was.  It does raise some doubt as to whether Edward deliberately gave some information to the Nazis or if he was just loose with his tongue.  

I wonder that until they got to him visiting a concentration camp, and his explanation to Elizabeth that no one knew at the time. He does often come off like he's just loose with his tongue, someone who's not careful about who he talks to or that maybe he was naïve about Hitler. Which is probably what he wants people to think. Except he knew. He visited a concentration camp. You can't claim not to know what Hitler was about after visiting a concentration camp. He also agreed to the plan that would put him back on the throne. With no thoughts to what would happen to his brother and his family or how many people in his country would be killed. He didn't upon hearing the plan get the heck out of Germany and far away from Hitler. He won't even act like he's disgusted by Hitler like others who once thought similar but changed their mind after the invasions and Holocaust. Even after everything he doesn't act like he did anything wrong.   

3 hours ago, Carolina Girl said:

 

That photo of Her Royal Bitchness Wallis Simpson smiling as she shakes Hitler's hand and the fact that jerk she married actually VISITED a Concentration Camp and wasn't repulsed summed them up to me.   The fact that these fascist sympathizers were the post-war toast of American and European society for decades afterward makes me sick to my stomach.  Didn't these people KNOW what he did - after all, even the British papers were given permisison to publish.  

Interesting that Netflix had a documentary about the Windors' Nazi sympathies that I watched on Friday night before hitting the binge watch of the Crown on Saturday morning made episode Six all the more interesting.  

This is the part that also gets me. He spent all of the time as toast of American and European society. He had so many people feeling sorry for him. How after the papers were publish did he still get a pass? Its one thing to feel sorry for a man who gave up his throne for love. Its completely different when he colluded with Hitler. He betrayed his family and his country. 

[Eyes High]

On 12/9/2017 at 10:14 PM, Peace 47 said:

His letters to his wife/ those who knew him best (like Tommy) reveal his true character (or lack thereof), though.  

His hilariously bitchy and self-pitying letters are one of my favourite parts of the show. The funniest bit was when he was whining about his fellow travelers wanting to buy him drinks and play cards with him. The horror!

 

Quote

Also Lascelles isn't impartial as he was greatly biased against Edward VIII already as Prince of Wales and then as King.  Only a part what he tell Elizabeth in the show can proved by evidence, the other things were conclusions based on coincidence.

I don't know that Lascelles was "biased" against Edward, since that suggests an unfair prejudice. His low opinion of Edward's character was the product of bitter firsthand experience.

Edited December 11, 2017 by Eyes High

[MissLucas]

3 hours ago, greekmom said:

Please advise which documentary this is! Thanks.

My overall thoughts on the episode was Phillip's attitude towards Uncle Nazi.  Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones and lets not forget his sister was also very heavy in the Nazi party due to her husband's involvement. 

I am not saying that Phillip shouldn't have a small opinion but compared to the Queen Mum and Tommy L. he really should have bit his tongue after voicing his first opinion.

I don't see why Philip is living in a glass house here. He directed his barbs against Edward and not against the Windsors. He was not responsible for his sisters just like Elizabeth was not responsible for her uncle. He fought in the war against the Nazis (something dear uncle did not) and his mother has a place in Yad Vashem.

[Roseanna]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

I wonder that until they got to him visiting a concentration camp, and his explanation to Elizabeth that no one knew at the time. He does often come off like he's just loose with his tongue, someone who's not careful about who he talks to or that maybe he was naïve about Hitler. Which is probably what he wants people to think. Except he knew. He visited a concentration camp. You can't claim not to know what Hitler was about after visiting a concentration camp. 

The Nazis had a model camp that was shown to visitors, a kind of Potemkin scenery.  It's naive to think that seeing a dictoriship "with your own eyes" is the best method to find the truth. 

There were enough information available. But the duke wasn't interested in reading. 

[anna0852]

Model camp or not, the mere fact that the place existed should have been an enormous red flag to Uncle Nazi.

[Lillith]

11 minutes ago, anna0852 said:

Model camp or not, the mere fact that the place existed should have been an enormous red flag to Uncle Nazi.

The concentration camp is a British invention. They used them during the Boer war, so many people found them acceptable. Like prison camps. This in no way give Uncle Nazi a pass and I believe Wallis Simpson was an anti-Semite but I just wanted to mention it for context. As awful as they were, the actors are so engaging I'd almost like to see a spinoff covering their lives. 

[andromeda331]

14 minutes ago, anna0852 said:

Model camp or not, the mere fact that the place existed should have been an enormous red flag to Uncle Nazi.

Exactly.

[MarysWetBar]

Uncle Nazi indeed! Count me in as being disappointed not seeing the 3 amigos getting loaded together and slamming uncle nazi.

Am i the only one who literally sniffs and says" oh, you horrible woman" every time i see Wallis? 

I read a book years ago by one of her maids or a nurse maybe.. about her later years. She was a narcissistic mess. 

I couldn't seperate Billy Graham from the last character i saw the actor portray on house of cards, so i kept expecting him to jump on Liz like he would on Clare. ?

[LilWharveyGal]

I can't stand either one of them as people, but I always enjoy the show's brief forays into The Surreal Life with David and Wallis.  Please forgive me.