S08.E05: The Big Scary U

[Juliegirlj]

Daryl is feral, Rick is a hick, and Gabe is an idiot. Perhaps for my own sanity I need to start rooting for Negan?! I'm starting to wonder if the writers are pulling a long con on the viewers to see how long we watch this garbage. I keep telling myself it will get better. Still waiting on that...

[Nashville]

3 hours ago, Gobi said:

So, does anyone know what the episode title means?

It’s a lift of one of Gweggy’s lines when he’s making his timeshare pitch to Negan in the first few minutes of the episode.  Or maybe it was a condo development pitch.  Hell, they all sound the same....

 

Quote

Liked how they cut from Rick and Darryl's fight to Eugene playing an equally realistic video game of a boxing match.

Caught that too - and loved that too.

 

2 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

Is Simon really stupid enough to believe Gregory?

IMHO Simon doesn’t really believe Greggy, but Simon has to “believe” Greggy - or rather, Simon has a vested interest in ensuring Negan believes Greggy.  Because Negan thinking Gregory is full of shit somehow translates to Negan thinking Simon is full of shit, and that ends badly for Simon.  

I’m guessing it’s because Simon convinced a somewhat unwilling Negan to let Simon run Greggy and Hilltop for the Saviors - and I’m also guessing Negan was swayed on THAT decision solely on Simon’s promise of a significantly increased payout on down the line.  And Greggyweggy (which by extension means Simon as well) can’t deliver - which means it’s Simon currently sporting the latest fall lineup in shitting pants fashions, not FPP.  Simon’s entire “Breakfeast of Love” convo with Greggy was nothing more than a coaching attempt by Simon on the story line to sell to Negan with the lowest potential of Lucille action.  

Only problem is, Gregory’s believability is for shit; he stutters, he stammers, he won’t establish or maintain eye contact, and he sounds like a guy making a pitch to unload some Florida swampland or sign you up for Amway.  Hell, the only thing missing is a bad Powerpoint presentation.  Greggy comes across as a guy with a wet dick in a harem trying to say he wasn’t doing anything, and Negan isn’t buying it.

 

2 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

I actually liked Dwight ar the meeting. "Dude, I've heard weasels squirm before. Can I just grab a smoke while nothing interesting is happening?"

I truly enjoyed that, if for no other reason than I’ve done the exact same thing myself more than a couple of times in pointless meetings.  My boss knew it was code for, “This jerkoff is seriously doing nothing more than blowing smoke up our collective asses, and I’d rather do something more constructive - like, destroy some lung tissue.”

[JackONeill]

1 hour ago, EllenC said:

If you're going to give me some of his backstory, which I don't care about at all at this point, at least tell me that jacket belonged to his late wife and he can't bear to give it up.

 

That would be great and innovative. Considering the team of nitwits we're dealing with (note the number of times "dick" was a said) forget about it ever happening.

[Boofish]

I no longer feel sorry for the "workers." They didn't mind coming upstairs breaking bad all of sudden? They didn't know The Fonz was presumed dead. It's hundreds of them and from what they showed there is plenty of access to fashion some make shift weapons. Are they all that afraid of going outside and making it on their own? 

[qtpye]

Rick and Daryl...I just can't anymore with these two.  At this point all of Camp Dinner Bell could die and I might not care.  Negan is not a complex villain.  So what if he loved his wife, that he cheated around on before the ZA?

That being said is it wrong that I did agree with some of the things he said about Rick?

I have moved three states and birthed two children, the oldest of which is in first grade, in this show's slow as a walker timelime.

[Pondlass1]

Thing is - it's only about people now.  The zombies are just a backdrop, whereas when it all began it was all about the threat of creepy zombies.  Now it's just a drippy soap opera featuring characters who never use soap.

[iMonrey]

Are the writers so out of touch they thought we'd want an expanded episode for Negan's return? I guess it could have been worse: an entire hour of just Negan and Father Gabriel, with Negan and Gabriel flashbacks. In fact that's exactly what I thought it was going to be for the first fifteen minutes before the commercial break. At least we had some Rick and Daryl thrown in there but then . . . that all went to shit too.

This is the first time I've ever rooted for Negan to go ahead and kill someone, because once Gabriel failed to shoot him he officially became my most hated character on the show. What a useless idiot. I mean - he's always been useless, but now he's worse than useless, he's actively aiding and abetting the enemy. First with Gregory, and now with Negan. 

Quote

Negan's obsession with phallic imagery is so repetitive and boring.

I swear, somebody with more time and energy needs to go back and count how many times Negan said dick or balls or some combination thereof just in this episode alone. At least a dozen. WTF.

And yeah - Rick has gotten people killed but I'm really, really tired of this false equivalency that Rick is as bad as or worse than Negan. Rick didn't get Glen and Abraham killed - that's all on Negan. Just because he has crowned himself leader of the free world doesn't mean anyone who disobeys his rules is in the wrong. That's essentially what he's saying. That's just deflecting, not to mention delusional. Yet I'm starting to get the sense that the writers actually believe this crap. Negan isn't a god. He's a bully and a terrorist, and people who try to resist him or eliminate him aren't his equivalent.

[TigerLynx]

If the writers were actually going for a scenario of how far would you go to survive, what's the best way to lead, how do people from a technology advanced world learn to live in a ZA, the SLs might be more interesting, but I don't believe these writers are that smart.  Their only goal seems to be how gross can we make the zombies and everyone else look, how many horrible ways can we kill people off, and how many of these characters can we have drone on and on endlessly about absolutely nothing. 

Edited November 20, 2017 by TigerLynx

[qtpye]

35 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Are the writers so out of touch they thought we'd want an expanded episode for Negan's return? I guess it could have been worse: an entire hour of just Negan and Father Gabriel, with Negan and Gabriel flashbacks. In fact that's exactly what I thought it was going to be for the first fifteen minutes before the commercial break. At least we had some Rick and Daryl thrown in there but then . . . that all went to shit too.

This is the first time I've ever rooted for Negan to go ahead and kill someone, because once Gabriel failed to shoot him he officially became my most hated character on the show. What a useless idiot. I mean - he's always been useless, but now he's worse than useless, he's actively aiding and abetting the enemy. First with Gregory, and now with Negan. 

I swear, somebody with more time and energy needs to go back and count how many times Negan said dick or balls or some combination thereof just in this episode alone. At least a dozen. WTF.

And yeah - Rick has gotten people killed but I'm really, really tired of this false equivalency that Rick is as bad as or worse than Negan. Rick didn't get Glen and Abraham killed - that's all on Negan. Just because he has crowned himself leader of the free world doesn't mean anyone who disobeys his rules is in the wrong. That's essentially what he's saying. That's just deflecting, not to mention delusional. Yet I'm starting to get the sense that the writers actually believe this crap. Negan isn't a god. He's a bully and a terrorist, and people who try to resist him or eliminate him aren't his equivalent.

I am sure Negan is some wimpy messed up writer's version of the ulimate macho man.  Maybe Negan should form the ZA's version of the Village People.

[tiredofwork]

I see this as one of those unfortunate episodes used only to set in motion future scenarios that we may see played out before the winter break or before the end of the continuation of the season in May.

On Father Gabriel.., I think the oft repeated "I am not afraid of death, but afraid of a fruitless death" is telling in that Gabe has now gone fully away from FPP and into scheming mode in order to help defeat the Saviors.. I think once he realized his plight with Negan, he formulated a plan of sacrifice that will give the good guys a chance.. If he dies in doing it, he is a brave martyr... 

I don't think that it is disastrous that the big gun (50 caliber??) and the ammo was destroyed because at least it is not in the hands of the Saviors...  Negan/Simon, etc. mentioned they were waiting on that weapon from the outpost in order to regain the advantage..  They won't have that.

On the helicopter.., they did that plot mechanism before when in episode 1 or 2 the jet plane crossed the sky.. it was not mentioned again until the end of the next season when they showed that plane caused the beginning of the heard that overran the farm..  So it will be interesting to see what the random placement of the helicopter will be. 

[meep.meep]

Count me among those who aren't interested at all in the helicopter.  It's too late for CDB to be "rescued" by a more powerful, presumably kindly, force.

They guy playing Simon has moved firmly into the moustache twirling zone.  Maybe it's the writing, but I blame him.

[SimoneS]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

And yeah - Rick has gotten people killed but I'm really, really tired of this false equivalency that Rick is as bad as or worse than Negan. Rick didn't get Glen and Abraham killed - that's all on Negan. Just because he has crowned himself leader of the free world doesn't mean anyone who disobeys his rules is in the wrong. That's essentially what he's saying. That's just deflecting, not to mention delusional. Yet I'm starting to get the sense that the writers actually believe this crap. Negan isn't a god. He's a bully and a terrorist, and people who try to resist him or eliminate him aren't his equivalent.

Don't forget he is also a rapist. He is the Harvey Weinstein of the Zombie Apocalypse. Yet Kirkman seems oblivious to harm that Negan causes the women he victimizes which makes me wonder about him. However, I notice that they don't have Rick raping or coercing multiple women into having sex.

Edited November 20, 2017 by SimoneS

[theredhead77]

I don't have an issue with Father Gabriel not killing Negan in cold blood despite the atrocities Negan has committed. Gabriel is a Priest, after all. He may have killed at the satellite outpost but that doesn't mean he doesn't regret his choice and won't do it again. I'm sick of Negan and Negan is ruining JDM for me but Gabriel is one character that I would never expect to kill Negan unless it was straight up self defence. 

[TigerLynx]

I don't understand Rick's attitude about the workers, or Jesus about the Saviors who surrendered.  Before going up against a group with superior numbers, lead by a psycho, you should really have a game plan that everyone knows.  The plan seemed to be we have to kill Negan, even though every single time they've had a chance to do so, they don't do it.  When they first arrived at the main Savior compound, Rick made the offer that if Negan would give himself up to be killed, the others could live.  That seemed to be off the table once Negan declined the offer.  They left to deal with the other outposts, and killed people there.  Now suddenly Rick is worried about the workers, but killing people while they slept (something they did before they ever met Negan) was okay.  Pick a road and drive it already.  You don't win a war by half-assing around, having moral crisises in the middle of battle, and then after lots of people are dead go, "Hey, maybe we should be doing things differently."

[heisenberg]

The whole savior place is powerd by diesel generators...   WTF?  

Is it the NRA and the oil lobby that finance the show?  

Every week we see more and more big trucks going around at 10 miles per gallon and a building that is powered by diesel, do they have some oil refinery operating near by?   

[Gobi]

1 hour ago, heisenberg said:

The whole savior place is powerd by diesel generators...   WTF?  

Is it the NRA and the oil lobby that finance the show?  

Every week we see more and more big trucks going around at 10 miles per gallon and a building that is powered by diesel, do they have some oil refinery operating near by?   

They run on bottled gas collected from Negan during his monologues. They have enough  to last centuries.

[peach]

15 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

I believe the Savior that Rick stabbed last week told them what they did before he died.  And he was friendly enough to let them know that Ezekiel ("The King"), Jerry ("axe-wielding guy"), and Carol ("short-hair woman") were the only survivors, so therefore Rick and Daryl where just like "Oh, so all the guys whose names we know are still alive?  That's cool, I guess!  I mean, it sucks for all the nameless folks who probably have family and loved ones, but we don't know them, so, again, cool!" 

Ok, thanks.  I was half-watching and half-surfing the net, and I didn't quite get what that guy was mumbling about.  I thought he was defiantly threatening them or something, like that one guy did when he told Rick his boy was going to die right before Rick unleashed a walker on him.  And then Rick and Daryl promptly shook it off like it was no big deal, like you said, so I thought it wasn't a big deal either.  I think losing the whole Kingdom team warrants more than a shrug.  No wonder Daryl wanted to go blow them up and end it in time for dinner. Like Scott Evil.

 

[nodorothyparker]

Rick asked the guy who won the battle.  Before going full dramatic forearm to the forehead death scene worthy of a high school theater production, he said no one and then rattled off that he and Ezekiel, Carol, and "the ax man" Jerry were the only survivors as far as he knew.  Daryl managed to at least look a bit taken aback by this and immediately seized on the idea to use the explosives to finish the war as soon as they found them because as he kept saying, they no longer have the numbers since they don't have the Kingdom anymore.  All Rick could do was keep babbling about sticking to "the plan" between punches.

[Gobi]

Not for nothing, but in real wars the usual ratio of killed to wounded is 1:3. Granted, these morons don't know enough to seek cover, but on the other hand, neither side is all that good with aiming. Even with American Civil War levels of medicine (about what they have in the ZA), not all the wounded die.  And keeping a tripod mounted .50 caliber machine gun on target requires a lot of training. Just sayin', more people should be left alive.

[Dobian]

I actually kind of liked this episode, until the end when Negan had to open his big mouth and give his stupid speech to the workers.  I agree that the workers are incredibly lame and spineless, still following a bully and his lackeys when they have the numbers to just take over and make Sanctuary a better place.  They'll get what they deserve in the end.  I'm so sick of Eugene though, and his ridiculous idiosyncratic dialogue.  And next week we will be subjected to the garbage pail gang again, ugh.  The writers are just great at creating all these crazy characters that are fascinating because they talk like no one else on the planet.  Sure...

Edited November 21, 2017 by Dobian

[Nashville]

9 hours ago, qtpye said:

I am sure Negan is some wimpy messed up writer's version of the ulimate macho man.  Maybe Negan should form the ZA's version of the Village People.

I think it's even more basic than that.  Pre-ZA Negan worked with kids?  Simple: Negan is actually Mr. Woodcock.

[AngelaHunter]

The endless, pointless gabby flashbacks, Gregory looking shifty, Negan and PeePants speechifying at each other, Simon's evil "Muah-ha-ha"ing constantly, the goddam MUSIC - the blaring, ominous/heart-rending/dramatic music, drowning out the boring dreary dialogue. Rick and Daryl playing Dumb&Dumber again with their little spat. I really can't stand looking at Daryl with the hair hanging directly in his eyes anymore.  The only thing that kept me awake was needing to know if Negan would break his record of dick, balls, ass, piss, shit and I actually think he did, and even added a couple new sophomoric ejaculations, with his... well - ejaculation in the very spot Pee sat (do men really inform each other when they "rub one out"?)and FP didn't even move.  And then for the grand finale we had Negan reciting a poem about his "nutsack" while everyone fell to their knees.  Excellent. And I am so over the smearing of zombie guts yet neglecting to put any on their fresh, warm heads.  Don't give a shit about the helicopter. It's probably filled with more evil, blood-thirsty lunatics armed with blow guns or something.

10 hours ago, qtpye said:

I am sure Negan is some wimpy messed up writer's version of the ulimate macho man.

Oh, I'm positive it's Kirkman's idea and self-insertion. In his sweaty little fantasies, he is Negan.

1 hour ago, Nashville said:

Simple: Negan is actually Mr. Woodcock.

That name would just tickle his balls.

[tennisgurl]

I am 100% certain that Negan had his dick eaten by a zombie at some point, and thats why he cant go three sentences without mentioning dicks and piss and shit. Dude might as well have named his bat "Overcompensation" and gotten it over with. 

However, I will say that Jeffrey got a few good acting moments in, and I did kind of understand more of how his mind work, and how the Saviors function, beyond just endlessly rambling between killing people. He is truly the head of a cult, and the people who work there really do see him as a strong leader who can protect them. In desperation, I can certainly see some people buying what he was selling. Granted, these are people who probably dont hear him talk very much (where he sounds like that guy in every small town who works part time at the 7/11 and cant stop talking about that touchdown he scored in high school), so he can still come off as badass to them. I did enjoy the "I enjoy killing people" line. That sounded pretty cool. 

Darryl and Rick need to get it together. Come on guys, you both sound ridiculous. And are both so desperately in need of a bath and/or comb. 

[Black Knight]

I kept falling asleep during this episode. At one point I woke up to find Daryl choking Rick, and briefly was intrigued by the idea that Daryl had turned traitor. Of course, after rewinding I learned it was just a stupid fight, because Daryl and Rick are children.

In an episode that was the dullest of the season (and it's had some serious competition for that dubious honor), I did laugh at Carol being described by the dying Savior as the "short-haired psycho woman."

Danai Gurira must be thrilled that she wasn't available for most of this shitshow of a season. It's her gain and our loss.

[CletusMusashi]

10 hours ago, heisenberg said:

The whole savior place is powerd by diesel generators...   WTF?  

Is it the NRA and the oil lobby that finance the show?  

Every week we see more and more big trucks going around at 10 miles per gallon and a building that is powered by diesel, do they have some oil refinery operating near by?   

As zombies decompose, they turn into oil. The virus was created by Dick Cheney. 

[jaigurudeva]

16 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

Worse, the show has so muddied the waters of who did what to who and who started it and based subsequent storytelling on so much blatant stupidity that I'm struggling to know who or what I'm supposed to be rooting for anymore.  When your biggest baddest big bad is making more sense in calling out the initial attack on the outpost for what it was, murdering people in their sleep, and correctly identifying that your lead's greatest accomplishment seems to be getting people killed while that lead can't even be bothered to react to news that an ally he did his best to browbeat into joining him has been mostly wiped out because he's too busy getting into pointless fistfights with his lieutenant, that's a problem.  

I understand from Negan's perspective the Alexandrians' attack on his Outpost was a jerk move, but I don't think the show is seriously trying to objectively retcon it.  Straight up, Negan's people started it. The very first time they show up, they ambushed a group of Rick's people and stole vehicles and weapons from them, attempting to kill them when Rick's people resisted.

Later, at the Hilltop, CDB learned that the Saviors have been extorting goods from the Hilltop, and killing some of them when they fail to meet their quotas. Twice now that they've witnessed the ruthlessness of the Saviors, and CDB also learns their M.O. of extorting goods from innocent communities makes Alexandria a target, too. On top of that, the Saviors put a bounty on Gregory's head, and attempted to murder him (this was before we learned how much of an asshole Gregory is, so it seemed worse at the time ;P).

Alexandria then aligned with the Hilltop and agreed to help them fight, including orchestrating a sneak attack on the Outpost (what they believed to be the full extent of Negan's force at the time). The Alexandrians didn't murder all children or anything, they killed murderers who hung Polaroids of their victims over their beds like trophies.

Yes, the Alexandrians went in there to kill them all (a fact that perturbed them all), because they already knew that the Saviors were violent maniacs who would never broker a peace.  Had they attacked during the day, only more Alexandrians would have been killed.  Had they never attacked, the Saviors would have continued terrorizing the Hilltop, the Kingdom, other communities like Oceanside (where they killed all the men because the community tried to revolt), and eventually Alexandria.

Also, most of the oh, so devoted people under Negan who aren't in his inner circle are basically third class citizens working in a gulag at best, and coerced concubines at worst. No, I don't think the show can make us sympathetic towards Negan and the Saviors after all that, just by saying that, "Sure, Negan and his people enjoy killing people, but only when it serves their purpose."  That's practically the definition of sociopathy.

[ShadowSixx]

I didn't watch it. Reading all your comments and very low score ratings I made the right decision. Just about anything Negan is a no go for me. He's not sympathetic at all and writers had the opportunity to flesh his character out in S7 and decided not to and instead make him a frat boy. Negan is still the worst villain of the show.

[KirkB]

The main issue I had with Rick and Daryl's argument is this. Daryl suggested blowing holes in the Savior's building so the walkers could get in and eat everyone. Game over. Threat done. Rick said he was worried about families, innocent people, and making potential new enemies if anyone survived. But no one in the building is going to get out as long as the walkers are surrounding the place. So it's either death by walker now or a slow death by starvation.

[TigerLynx]

17 minutes ago, KirkB said:

The main issue I had with Rick and Daryl's argument is this. Daryl suggested blowing holes in the Savior's building so the walkers could get in and eat everyone. Game over. Threat done. Rick said he was worried about families, innocent people, and making potential new enemies if anyone survived. But no one in the building is going to get out as long as the walkers are surrounding the place. So it's either death by walker now or a slow death by starvation.

This.  Also, some of the people they have already killed could very well be relatives, friends, etc., of the people in the Savior building.  Either they are at war, or they aren't.  If they can't finish the job, they never should have started it in the first place.

[AngelaHunter]

9 hours ago, Black Knight said:

I kept falling asleep during this episode. At one point I woke up to find Daryl choking Rick, and briefly was intrigued by the idea that Daryl had turned traitor. Of course, after rewinding I learned it was just a stupid fight, because Daryl and Rick are children.

I kept nodding off as well, and the only thing I found interesting in the Rick/Daryl "Are not!" "Am too!" "No fair chokehold!" scuffle was that when Daryl went to punch Rick on the ground, he missed (unfortunately) and his fist smashed into the ground with enough force to break his fingers yet left not a mark on his knuckles. Why did Daryl ride away on his bike and Rick walked? I must have zoned out during the explanation.

 

2 hours ago, ShadowSixx said:

He's not sympathetic at all and writers had the opportunity to flesh his character out in S7 and decided not to and instead make him a frat boy. Negan is still the worst villain of the show.

He's not even scary in the least. Unlike Gareth or the Governor, he's just silly and annoying. How intimidating is someone standing there, waving a baseball bat around and  yelling, "My dick is bigger than yours, Rick!"? I wish someone would say to  him, "Stop talking about your penis! Grow up, FFS!" There's not one ep he doesn't mention it, I dont' think. We should have made a drinking game out of it. Every time he refers to his genitals (or makes scatalogical/urological references) - drink!

[mightysparrow]

2 hours ago, KirkB said:

The main issue I had with Rick and Daryl's argument is this. Daryl suggested blowing holes in the Savior's building so the walkers could get in and eat everyone. Game over. Threat done. Rick said he was worried about families, innocent people, and making potential new enemies if anyone survived. But no one in the building is going to get out as long as the walkers are surrounding the place. So it's either death by walker now or a slow death by starvation.

Rick didn't seem too concerned about the families in Oceanside that he left defenseless.  And he wasn't able to squeeze out a single tear for the families in the Kingdom that had lost their loved ones.  Yet he's so concerned about Saviour families that he would fight his 'brother' over them.   Rick didn't show that level of compassion for the families in Alexandria, the people who took his raggedy, dog-eating ass in.

[HighMaintenance]

I purposely did not watch.  I feared I would lose brain cells listening to Negan's ramblings and (unlike Abraham) even his foul mouthed expletives are uninspired and pedestrian.  No regerts on my part. 

 

However, I do enjoy reading the snarktastic comments which are infinitely more entertaining that my (former) fave show that has been decomposing as badly as the undead,  I'm very perturbed by this show's lack of cohesiveness, character motivations that change on a whim, and storytelling that drags on for seasons and doesn't really push the story forward.  I no longer really care about any of the characters because they're all just sloppily written.  I will (maybe) continue to watch, because I really have nothing that exciting going on in my life on Sunday nights.  But I can't even HATE watch because the story is so dull and trying.

Concerning the sudden morality that Rick (and Jesus and Maggie) have suddenly found - it makes absolutely no sense.  EVERY "Negan-ite" has shown they are the evilest evil that ever eviled.  You need to put your moral compass in your pocket if you are in the middle of "all out war".

[Ocean Chick]

Rick is worried that there are more Gracies in The Sanctuary.  Problem is, is that Rick only worries about the innocents when the story calls for it.  Didn't worry about Oceanside, but he worries about the GPKs?  I can't even with him.

[AngelaHunter]

56 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I don't think so, because they would have shot at Nagen when he escaped with Gabriel back to the building complex.

Or maybe shot at him as he obligingly stood broadside while Rick was aiming at him with an automatic weapon, after announcing to him, "I told you twice (I was going to kill you.) but surprise! I didn't then and I won't now. Maybe one of your wives is enciente and I'm such a compassionate person I wouldn't want to leave a pregnant woman with no husband and a child with no father. Whut? Maggie? Maggie who? Oh, yeah. Right. So. I'm going to kill you! Sometime. Probably the next time you present yourself as a perfect target. Yep, for sure then!"

2 hours ago, mightysparrow said:

Rick didn't seem too concerned about the families in Oceanside that he left defenseless. 

Left defenseless after first terrorizing them with explosives and threats.

[iMonrey]

I missed something. When that one Savior brought in the bag or whatever it was that had the red paint on it (which Eugene recognized as coming from Dwayne's chess pieces) - what was in it? Guns? I remember her saying they were the Saviors guns but where did she get this bag and how did she determine they were their guns?

[Gobi]

3 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I missed something. When that one Savior brought in the bag or whatever it was that had the red paint on it (which Eugene recognized as coming from Dwayne's chess pieces) - what was in it? Guns? I remember her saying they were the Saviors guns but where did she get this bag and how did she determine they were their guns?

The bag had guns. Not sure where they got them, or how they knew the guns were theirs, though.

[Raven1707]

The Sunday Cable ratings are in for Episode 805, "The Big Scary U":

Sunday was not a great night for cable originals. Several shows took ratings hits, and “The Walking Dead” — though still on top — suffered the biggest one.

“The Walking Dead” recorded a six-year low in adults 18-49 with a 3.4 rating (it was off half a point vs. last week). The last time it scored that low was Nov. 20, 2011, when episode 6 of Season 2 drew a 3.1.

The show’s 7.85 million viewers were its fewest since the next-to-last episode of Season 2 in March 2012. [7.845 million viewers]

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/daily-ratings/sunday-cable-ratings-nov-19-2017/

So this is what the Live + Same Day ratings look like for Season 8 so far:

10-22-17 “Mercy” 11.439 million
10-29-17 “The Damned” 8.923 million
11-05-17 “Monsters” 8.519 million
11-12-17 “Some Guy” 8.688 million
11-19-17 “The Big Scary U” 7.845 million

That's a pretty significant drop, but Sunday Night Football drew a 7.0 rating & 21.06 million viewers. Still, I have to wonder...could some of that drop-off be related to the return of Negan?

[raven]

8 hours ago, mightysparrow said:

Rick didn't seem too concerned about the families in Oceanside that he left defenseless.  And he wasn't able to squeeze out a single tear for the families in the Kingdom that had lost their loved ones.  Yet he's so concerned about Saviour families that he would fight his 'brother' over them.   Rick didn't show that level of compassion for the families in Alexandria, the people who took his raggedy, dog-eating ass in.

Well, I don't care about Oceanside either :)  Seriously, I think there is a difference between that society, who are not trapped in a building, who were left with their knives and whatever other non-gun weapons they had, and the workers trapped in the Sanctuary.    No one has had time to process what happened to the Kingdom (thought I doubt the show will address it) and they're still fighting.   As far as Alexandria, I'm not sure what you are referring to (I tend to forget a lot of what happens) but for sure the show has been wildly inconsistent.  From what we saw, the Sanctuary workers are unarmed and unable to leave the building -  they told Negan's council that they were supposed to be defending them.  Rick has a plan and doesn't want to kill these people; there's not guarantee about Daryl was proposing anyway.  I guess Dwight passed this info on.

Daryl came off looking like an idiot because we have had no lead up to why he suddenly feels this way.  Daryl would usually be the one to worry about collateral damage I think,  Is he supposed to be broken or something because of his time in the Sanctuary??  It's just so messy.   When going to "war" you would normally have direction about what to do with prisoners and non combatants.  Why is everyone all over the place?  Like so much on the show, it makes no sense.  Rick and Daryl have been through so much shit together "brothers" maybe they disagree but they should fundamentally be on the same wavelength.

On re-watch, this was a really good episode for Seth Gilliam.  We'll either now not see him in forever or he'll die.  I like his blend of creepy yet thoughtful yet compassionate.  He comes off a little wacky, I like it.  I also liked his nifty move to nab the gun from Negan, yes, I wish he would have shot Negan, but that was never going to happen so I'll go with "that's not who Father G is".

Steven Ogg as Simon is SO much more interesting and threatening then JDM's Negan.  Negan almost kind of worked in the quieter moments with Father G, further showing that the ridiculous, over the top mannerisms and speech just.don't.work.  I can't picture that Negan taking over the Sanctuary, unless he talked them to death.  For me, we've been stuck with this awful, annoying Negan for so long, I don't care about whatever his backstory is.  Everyone has a sad story and OMG he couldn't kill his zombie wife??  Seriously??? The lamest of the lame.

I find that I kind of like Dwight, I think the actor is decent and that I'm over Eugene. 

It seems like the show is just writing the characters to get from point to point, rather than thinking about who these people are.

[ShadowSixx]

13 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

He's not even scary in the least. Unlike Gareth or the Governor, he's just silly and annoying. How intimidating is someone standing there, waving a baseball bat around and  yelling, "My dick is bigger than yours, Rick!"? I wish someone would say to  him, "Stop talking about your penis! Grow up, FFS!" There's not one ep he doesn't mention it, I dont' think. We should have made a drinking game out of it. Every time he refers to his genitals (or makes scatalogical/urological references) - drink!

 

Yep, Gareth is still the best villain in the series so far followed by Shane (even though Shane was more grey than a real villain). No one else has been able to do creepy like Gareth. Does anyone else wish he would come back to life so he can eat Negan's tongue? That way Negan will finally be able to STFU. Gareth's backstory of being trapped in a boxcar while the women were being sexually assaulted and going hungry had more depth than anything Negan.

[Black Knight]

5 hours ago, raven said:

Daryl came off looking like an idiot because we have had no lead up to why he suddenly feels this way.

We did receive a explanation for that. Daryl was unnerved to learn that everyone from the Kingdom squadron except Ezekiel, Carol and Jerry are dead, and consequently they are now at a disadvantage numbers-wise again. So he wanted to change the plan and go for what he believes will be a quick death blow.

The thing is, because we still don't know all of the plan, we can't judge whether Rick or Daryl are correct. Well, I suppose we can, because obviously Rick will defeat Negan in the end, but that's meta-show reasoning rather than in-show logic. Rick's never been a good strategist, but I don't recall Daryl ever strategizing at all, so I can't trust one's judgment over the other (plus, Rick did not come up with this plan all on his own, so just because he's not a good strategist doesn't mean that the plan isn't strategically good). I understand and sympathize with both arguments in the abstract - Daryl is worried about the numbers, Rick doesn't want to panic and impulsively deviate from the plan - but again, can't judge who is right in this instance because we don't know the plan. At this point in the timeline of the plaaaaaaaaaaaan, it may not be as much of an issue as Daryl thinks that they have lost the Kingdom's fighters (maybe their main assignment was to shut down the outpost, which Carol did handle). Then again, maybe it is. Who the hell knows, apart from meta-show "Rick will beat Negan eventually" reasoning?

[KirkB]

I wouldn't necessarily trust Rick or Daryl to come up with a strategy under most circumstances. But in this case Daryl's was pretty foolproof. Blow open the walls and lets the walkers in to eat the rest of the Saviors inside is pretty solid and has little in the way of a downside. The only potential flaw is if the Saviors have some secret way out, like a tunnel or something, but if they had such a thing they would have used it already and the whole surround them strategy would have been pointless in the first place.

[TheRabbi]

I'm skimming some of the comments, and I'm most surprised that some folks have the stomach to watch this twice. I nodded off a couple times the first time. I liked Negan a bit better this episode when he actually resembled a real person for a few minutes, but the Rick/Daryl stuff was beyond ridiculous and stupid, the zombies not getting to FPP/Negan was almost as ridiculous as the Glenn dumpster save, and the Gregory stuff is laughable.  When the Negan stuff is the highlight of the episode, that's a problem. 

Edited November 22, 2017 by TheRabbi

[ShadowHunter]

14 hours ago, ShadowSixx said:

 

Yep, Gareth is still the best villain in the series so far followed by Shane (even though Shane was more grey than a real villain). No one else has been able to do creepy like Gareth. Does anyone else wish he would come back to life so he can eat Negan's tongue? That way Negan will finally be able to STFU. Gareth's backstory of being trapped in a boxcar while the women were being sexually assaulted and going hungry had more depth than anything Negan.

Gareth though could have become annoying if he had lasted for a full season or more.  He did have an advantage of being killed off early. He was good to watch and yes had a better backstory.  People got tired of the the Gov. as well. Many felt he lasted longer then he should have. 

Agree with others about Shane. He would be #1 for me had he not been obsessed with Lori. Why he wanted her or Carl is a mystery to me lol.

Edited November 22, 2017 by ShadowHunter

[AngelaHunter]

3 hours ago, ShadowHunter said:

Agree with others about Shane. He would be #1 for me had he not been obsessed with Lori. Why he wanted her or Carl is a mystery to me lol.

I didn't see Shane as a villain at all. I saw him as a passionate, hot-tempered, frustrated and yes - heart-broken man who made some bad choices. BUT, at least he - unlike our dick-obsessed cartoonish Negan - seemed like a real person.  As to why he wanted Carl and Lori - well, no one ever really knows what someone sees in another person.

 

4 hours ago, TheRabbi said:

I'm skimming some of the comments, and I'm most surprised that some folks have the stomach to watch this twice.

Yeah, I could barely watch it once. With my fave shows over the years (HBO and Showtime which don't turn their popular series into ridiculous, merchandise-peddling  circuses) I'd watch and ep and then immediately watch it again, knowing I'd probably missed some nuanced/intelligent/brilliant moment. Not so with this show.

[ShadowSixx]

5 hours ago, ShadowHunter said:

Gareth though could have become annoying if he had lasted for a full season or more.  He did have an advantage of being killed off early. He was good to watch and yes had a better backstory.  People got tired of the the Gov. as well. Many felt he lasted longer then he should have. 

Agree with others about Shane. He would be #1 for me had he not been obsessed with Lori. Why he wanted her or Carl is a mystery to me lol.

That's the thing with villains. You have to know how long to keep them around or when to give viewers a break from them. Negan's expiration date has come a long time ago but writers and Kirkman have such a hard on for Negan's character. IDK why since other sites I visited are pretty underwhelmed or tired o him.

[Prairie]

It's hard to believe that the show we watched Shane on is the same show that we watch Negan on.

Actually, maybe more sad than anything cause I loved the show  that Shane was on.

Edited November 23, 2017 by Apricotte

[spiderpig]

Late to the party again...just watched this ep with Mr. pig.

We've been with this program since the beginning, and I had to keep pausing to ask "are we in a flashback or not?"   I hate it when that happens.  I also had to pause to scream that the script and direction were abysmal, I couldn't tell what was going on, and that the episode sucked.

Rick is the Gomer Pyle of state police, and I'm tired of him.  Coral was more competent back in Season One.

As far as the confessional, we were both screaming "make it stop!!!".

Carol appears to be the only survivor with a functioning brain in the post-ZA.    

[Yolapukka]

I not only forgot to watch this week, I could not even remember if I had skipped it. I had to come here and look at the most recent episode thread.

 

Having read through the thread, I am now utterly confused as to whether I will attempt to watch on a later airing, eventually catch it ad-free on Netflix so I can FF when the stupid burns too much or just forget about it.

Edited November 23, 2017 by yuggapukka

[oakville]

23 hours ago, spiderpig said:

Late to the party again...just watched this ep with Mr. pig.

We've been with this program since the beginning, and I had to keep pausing to ask "are we in a flashback or not?"   I hate it when that happens.  I also had to pause to scream that the script and direction were abysmal, I couldn't tell what was going on, and that the episode sucked.

Rick is the Gomer Pyle of state police, and I'm tired of him.  Coral was more competent back in Season One.

As far as the confessional, we were both screaming "make it stop!!!".

Carol appears to be the only survivor with a functioning brain in the post-ZA.    

The time jumps are confusing to watch. Why are they doing this?

I don't understand why Rick & Darryl would fight over a box of dynamite. It could be used at a later date.

I am curios about the helicopter.

Negan is still annoying.

[AngelaHunter]

11 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

A complete waste of time on a poorly written shit show.

Yes, but you're forgetting that we've been given a glimpse into Negan's sensitive side, with this touching tour de force poem he penned on the spot and recited for the benefit of his awestruck subjects:

"I wear a leather jacket.

I have Lucille

And my nutsack

is made of steel."

So, yeah - maybe everything else is poorly written shit, but don't try to say that is not golden. Bravo, writers. Oh, bravo!

Edited November 25, 2017 by AngelaHunter
Realized the POME wasn't formatted the best way