S07.E09: Drink the Kool-Aid

[AmandaPanda]

Quote

Episode description to come. 

[Spartan Girl]

Watching Ivy die a slow, agonizing death was the best Halloween present ever.

I must admit, I actually thought Ally bought the whole "I was so lost" bullshit. But when Ally started calmly serving her that oh-so-romantic dinner that she herself didn't take a bite out of, I knew what was coming. And it was glorious. 

Sarah Paulsen is finally bringing her A-game. Ally has gone from puppet to master.

Watching Winter get slapped by Beverly and Ally was pretty good too.

Poor Oz. Wasn't expecting the twist of him being used as Kai's "messiah baby." I sure hope he gets out okay.

Edited November 1, 2017 by Spartan Girl
Edited to clarify the "plot twist"

[mamadrama]

I felt a little sorry for Ivy at first but then, sometime after the 2nd drink of wine, decided the bitch had it coming anyway.

Favorite line: "the Kanye of leaders..."

Oh, Kai. You so batshit crazy.

[Chaos Theory]

Ivy you know shit has gotten real when Ally is the calm rational one.  I did kinda feel sorry for her for a hot minute but then I remembered everything she put Ally though.  Ally has found her strength and only wants two things and has managed to get them both.  In for a penny Ally right?

Still kinda sweet in a way putting Ivy in the room with Kai's parents.  

[mamadrama]

I'm gonna be real pissed if the Hale-Bop people were right.

[TobinAlbers]

Ha! At least Vincent got a place on the family bed of lye!

Ivy and Winter had some frakking nerve. They're groveling to Ally wasn't anything about remorse but about fear of being caught and wanting help getting away from Kai. Ivy showed her true colors when after Ally revealed her feelings over dinner, she sneered that Ally was a coward and wouldn't do poop- which was rich because Ivy waspissing her pants in every moment with Kai. She's such a sad weak, easily swayed person. Her death was earned.

Having said that watching Ivy and Dark!Ally execute their own war of the bloody roses would've been great. They really really detested and loathed each other.

Kai broke Beverly. The way she was screaming after the kool aid test ...they only thing that might bring her back is filling her hole of insanity with rage and revenge by killing Winter.

Love that we know we have dark Ally by her excessive use of eyeliner. 

[mamadrama]

Now that Kai has drank his own Kool Aid, he is much easier to screw with.

[ShadowHunter]

Beverly may be on the verge to cracking up. It was in her laugh or she is already gone. Yes it was nice to see her slap Winter.

I am glad Ivy is dead. People on Twitter were also saying they don't feel bad for her or Winter since they two have stood around while others were killed. Hopefully winter goes next.

I knew the Kool-Aid scene was a test but still a twist cause not drinking it killed you.

Nice seeing Evan play all the Cult leaders. Talk about a true Horror.  He has also now played more characters in AHS history then any other actor.

The scene with Kai and Ozzy was real creepy. I was worried about what Kai would do. Evan get this look on his face.

I will say the actor Cooper Dodson looks like he could be Evan Peters son.

Kai is getting crazier as well and still popping Adderall.

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

Poor Oz. Wasn't expecting the twist of him being Kai's baby. I sure hope he gets out okay.

Was he Kai's baby? I thought that photo in the file at the clinic was a whole different guy, and that Ally replaced it.

[Pixel]

16 minutes ago, TattleTeeny said:

Was he Kai's baby? I thought that photo in the file at the clinic was a whole different guy, and that Ally replaced it.

You are correct. Ally confirmed that it wasn’t Kai’s sperm that was used, and then got the receptionist to help her get Kai’s file to use as proof to lie to Kai. 

Arsenic would not kill you that fast. It takes minimum a couple of hours, and that’s if you really dose a lot. I hate when shows do this crap. If she’d just said it was cyanide I’d have bought it. 

[Valny]

24 minutes ago, TattleTeeny said:

Was he Kai's baby? I thought that photo in the file at the clinic was a whole different guy, and that Ally replaced it.

That's right. Ally saw the pic of the guy and was relieved it wasn't Kai, then asked the clinic lady to do something else for her(replacing it with the photo of Kai)

No way I felt sorry for Ivy. I had a smile on my face and was laughing a little when I saw Ally wasn't drinking the wine. (didn't know she poisoned the sauce too! :) Get down with your bad self Ally!

Edited November 1, 2017 by Valny

[acid burn]

9 minutes ago, Pixel said:

Arsenic would not kill you that fast. It takes minimum a couple of hours, and that’s if you really dose a lot. I hate when shows do this crap. If she’d just said it was cyanide I’d have bought it. 

That kind of bugged me, too, although I was so happy to watch Ivy bite it by Ally's hand that I decided I could fanwank it away.

The way Kai indoctrinates the men into the cult reminds me of hazing culture. I guess they are actually similar, but those guys even have the stupid nicknames, FFS. I was a frat sweetheart during undergrad (ugh, I know) and even though the frat boys I knew never did a murder, that whole Jonestown Kool Aid fake-out business was basically one paddling scene away from being just another night at hell week. 

[ShadowHunter]

Winter never heard of Jim Jones? Okay. I had heard of him long before I was in College.

“Doubters get no cookies! I can get behind that slogan lol.

Kai had his Fight Club guys beat up that other Council member. His look right at them sealed that.

[HunterHunted]

Ally and Beverly smacking the shit out of Winter is my new people slapping Joffrey Baratheon. I could watch that shit forever.

[AnimeMania]

3 hours ago, ShadowHunter said:

Nice seeing Evan play all the Cult leaders.

Including Jesus Christ!

[ShadowHunter]

6 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Including Jesus Christ!

Last season really no Evan Peters. This season everyone is Evan Peters. 

[darkestboy]

Damn, that was good. Evan seemed to be having fun as Koresh, Jones and Jesus Christ and Kai is finally falling victim to his own hype.

He believed a little too easily from Ally that Oz was their son, so his downfall is going to be a bit sweeter now.

Winter deserved getting slapped by both Ally and Beverly this week. Ivy deserved the poisoned meal Ally gave her as well. 

None of Kai's new followers/frat boys have any personalities but I guess that's the point to them.

Only two more to go, 8/10

[beaker73]

God, that was a good episode.  I, too, felt bad for Ivy for a hot second and then just sat back and enjoyed her demise.  Evan Peters and Sarah Paulson were fantastic this week.  

[TobinAlbers]

It's always weird and fun to remember how each actor plays different characters in relation to each other each season.

Last season EP was given short shrift but was lovey dovey with SP's character and they both died.

This season they're in a warped cult story manipulating and terrorizing each other.

In Coven, Mare Winningham's mother was sexually abusing EP's son character, in Hotel she was in love with his psychopathic ways, in Cult she detested his crazy cult leader and was killed by him.

Have they teased what next season is going to be about?

[Captanne]

Slightly OT?  My love for Mare Winningham knows no bounds.

[RedMal]

They got back on track with this episode after two extremely disappointing ones.

Okay, so I understand why they put Evan play all these cult leaders. But why was he also Andy Warhol? It's not a big deal, just wondering.

I knew immediately that Ivy is dead, when they sat down to dinner. And I'm glad I was right. But at the same time, Ally was being such a coldhearted psychopath in the scene, that there's really no one to root for anymore. I hope they all die.

[luna1122]

17 minutes ago, RedMal said:

They got back on track with this episode after two extremely disappointing ones.

Okay, so I understand why they put Evan play all these cult leaders. But why was he also Andy Warhol? It's not a big deal, just wondering.

I knew immediately that Ivy is dead, when they sat down to dinner. And I'm glad I was right. But at the same time, Ally was being such a coldhearted psychopath in the scene, that there's really no one to root for anymore. I hope they all die.

I think Evan was Andy just because he made such a GOOD Andy. That's been the highlight of the season for me.

I was gratified to see Ivy die, and Winter smacked (tho, man, that sounds really awful of me), but yeah, no real good guys here, anywhere. Except Oz. Loved him correcting Kai on the Jim Jones details. Also, Jim Jones high fiving Jesus was hilarious.

This season has gone a little off the rails, like most AHS seasons do. I still love it, but I wish it were...tighter, more controlled and less over the top batshit sometimes.

Sarah and Evan just have chemistry together. When Kai slinked up behind Ally at the stove to make yummy noises over the manwiches, for a minute I forgot he was a psycho freak and she a screamy neurotic who both should probably just die. There's just an innate, weird sizzle between them onscreen.

 

oh, Jim Jones being the "Kanye of cult leaders" was the funniest line of the nite.

Edited November 1, 2017 by luna1122

[TattleTeeny]

Yeah, if arsenic killed so fast, people who eat a lot of rice would have some real issues to deal with!

[Chaos Theory]

Every episode of this season (except for maybe the Andy Warhol episode) has been all kinds of amazing.  This is by far the best season the show has ever done.  I am looking forward to every episode of the show and looking forward to what both Kai and Ally do next.  I was a little worried at first when the show made it about politics but so far it has worked in truly thrilling and scary ways.  I see where all the main characters are at least coming from.  Ivy was just tired and afraid and needed someone.   The marriage wasn’t an equal partnership by any definition and she needed that so when Kai comes along and offers her a quick easy answer the floodgates open.  Even Winter who like a lot (I said a lot) of millennials got told throughout their lives that they just had to try their best and they would get what they wanted learned so fabulously that life doesn’t work like that just gave up completely,

The irony is that Ally might actually be the strongest one of them all.  Ain’t that a bitch.

As for the arsenic issue.  The average tv watcher understands arsenic.  It might be as simple as that.  Using other poisons might be more realistic but realism isn’t always necessarily a good thing.  Sometimes going with what people understand is just easier.

i also think this season is the tightest best written the show has ever been.  It’s horror so it is bound to go a little off the rails.   Nature of the beast.  But by keeping it in large part in the “real world” the show has kept mostly scary and creepy instead of off the wall batshit like other seasons have been.

i approve by the way.

Edited November 1, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[Stringey]

Oh wow I get now why they made the character of ally so weak it was so she could be reborn. When she started dipping that pasta on to the plate and was talking i could feel the anxiety in my stomach rising. Bravo for the tension. That scene of ivy dying  which most agree was deserving could have been cheesy but was creepy as fuck. So now I guess ally is going to tell Ozzie that ivy just left them.  This season and especially this episode has been I want to say the most

realistically scary I guess. Evan Peters role this season has played out the best and scariest. His angry face when he moved up close to oz because oz contradicted him was very believable.

 

11 hours ago, Stringey said:

Oh wow I get now why they made the character of ally so weak it was so she could be reborn. When she started dipping that pasta on to the plate and was talking i could feel the anxiety in my stomach rising. Bravo for the tension. That scene of ivy dying  which most agree was deserving could have been cheesy but was creepy as fuck. So now I guess ally is going to tell Ozzie that ivy just left them.  This season and especially this episode has been I want to say the most

realistically scary I guess. Evan Peters role this season has played out the best and scariest. His angry face when he moved up close to oz because oz contradicted him was very believable.

I read above that arsenic will not kill you fast like ivy died. If that's true I had no idea. Her physical reaction though as she was dying was good and creepy though. Also your just imagining all that's going through her head as she is gagging blood.

[Lady Iris]

2 hours ago, Captanne said:

Slightly OT?  My love for Mare Winningham knows no bounds.

Agreed! She's always awesome.

 

2 hours ago, luna1122 said:

Sarah and Evan just have chemistry together. When Kai slinked up behind Ally at the stove to make yummy noises over the manwiches, for a minute I forgot he was a psycho freak and she a screamy neurotic who both should probably just die. There's just an innate, weird sizzle between them onscreen.

This! Yes! Felt that too.

[ShadowHunter]

2 hours ago, luna1122 said:

I think Evan was Andy just because he made such a GOOD Andy. That's been the highlight of the season for me.

I was gratified to see Ivy die, and Winter smacked (tho, man, that sounds really awful of me), but yeah, no real good guys here, anywhere. Except Oz. Loved him correcting Kai on the Jim Jones details. Also, Jim Jones high fiving Jesus was hilarious.

This season has gone a little off the rails, like most AHS seasons do. I still love it, but I wish it were...tighter, more controlled and less over the top batshit sometimes.

Sarah and Evan just have chemistry together. When Kai slinked up behind Ally at the stove to make yummy noises over the manwiches, for a minute I forgot he was a psycho freak and she a screamy neurotic who both should probably just die. There's just an innate, weird sizzle between them onscreen.

 

oh, Jim Jones being the "Kanye of cult leaders" was the funniest line of the nite.

Agree about that scene with Evan and Sarah.  Even the way he said "Only for you" was softer and a bit sexy.

I think Evan was best at playing David Koresh. I liked all of them but for some reason that one hit me the most. 

Since Kai has gone to that clinic though he could have some kids out there. 

[iMonrey]

Would the academy just go ahead and give Evan Peters an Emmy already? That guy is such a chameleon. I don't get why he isn't a more famous star, doing blockbuster films and such. 

Not that there's anything wrong with being part of the Ryan Murphy franchise, I'm sure it's very lucrative creatively and financially. But it often seems like some of the stuff he produces is his own personal maturbatory fantasy, like all these hot guys sitting around in their wife beaters and long johns. WTF? They're all sleeping down in the basement together? 

Quote

Arsenic would not kill you that fast. It takes minimum a couple of hours, and that’s if you really dose a lot. I hate when shows do this crap. If she’d just said it was cyanide I’d have bought it. 

Yeah - not to mention, where do you even buy arsenic? "Hello, I've just been released from the psych ward and I'd like to buy a lethal dose of arsenic, please. OK thanks bye."

[Mattipoo]

Evan Peters was great playing all the cult leaders through history. I think he deserves an Emmy for this season.

YES! Ivy is dead! Good riddance.

[Broderbits]

3 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Would the academy just go ahead and give Evan Peters an Emmy already? That guy is such a chameleon. I don't get why he isn't a more famous star, doing blockbuster films and such. 

He's always my favorite part of the X-Men movies, so that's 2 franchises he's part of.

[ShadowHunter]

9 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Would the academy just go ahead and give Evan Peters an Emmy already? That guy is such a chameleon. I don't get why he isn't a more famous star, doing blockbuster films and such. 

Not that there's anything wrong with being part of the Ryan Murphy franchise, I'm sure it's very lucrative creatively and financially. But it often seems like some of the stuff he produces is his own personal maturbatory fantasy, like all these hot guys sitting around in their wife beaters and long johns. WTF? They're all sleeping down in the basement together? 

Yeah - not to mention, where do you even buy arsenic? "Hello, I've just been released from the psych ward and I'd like to buy a lethal dose of arsenic, please. OK thanks bye."

Evan has a indie movie coming out this December. Another Indie movie coming out next year,as well as the next X-Men movie. He also got announced for Ryan's new show "Pose".

I agree he needs to finally get nominated but he seems like he is starting to have a lot of work come out.  Check his IMBD page he is busy.

You know Manwich if played around with is also Man Witch lol. Idk if that could be a season 8 clue.

[Georgia]

Oz was literally the child from The Emperor's New Clothes. They did a good job of showing how Kai is devolving by his reaction to questions that could have easily been explained away.

They also made a point to tell us that his name means king of kings. That, coupled with the paternity stuff, makes me wonder if they're setting it up for Ally to take over the cult for Oz to inherit. What are their options at this point? 

[LoneHaranguer]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Yeah - not to mention, where do you even buy arsenic? "Hello, I've just been released from the psych ward and I'd like to buy a lethal dose of arsenic, please. OK thanks bye."

Over the net through her business? Even though arsenic has been phased out of pest control products, a chemical supply company would probably sell it to a restaurant wanting to use it for that purpose. Or, maybe they already had some.

[kira28]

Haven't enjoyed a season this much since Murder House 

 Some of the others didn't even keepy attention past the first 3 episodes but this one is addictive. Love that Aly killed Ivy. She so deserved to die. She didn't even regret Gaslighting Aly and sending her to the psych ward or keeping oz from her. Love his Ally is so confident and kick ass now. Hated that ivy had no problem leaving her innocent son with a man she knows, is psycho just so she could save herself. I think that is why Ally decided to kill her.  Evan is a remarkable actor. 

[Empress1]

I knew Ivy was toast at that dinner and like I said, I am here for it! Good riddance!

[Anela]

Bye, Ivy! 

I'm glad Ally is fighting back. 

My DVR started recording at 11pm, so it caught the end, before the rerun. It started as she was bashing on his front door, and cut out just as Ivy was about to eat, so I don't know how much I missed, aside from Ivy actually dying, which I didn't need to see. 

I'm glad that Oz isn't really Kai's child - that Ally is just using his own delusions against him. I hope he isn't somehow playing her in return. He's treating her like his new favourite - the way he treated the reporter at first. I have a lot of trouble watching him, because he makes my skin crawl.

Edited November 2, 2017 by Anela

[TudorQueen]

Would the academy just go ahead and give Evan Peters an Emmy already? That guy is such a chameleon. I don't get why he isn't a more famous star, doing blockbuster films and such. 

I was furious when he wasn't nominated for his James P. March in "Hotel" - it was his first 'grown-up' role in the franchise and I couldn't get over how well he nailed it. (I was also furious that there was no nomination for Dennis O'Hare that year because his Liz Taylor was a brilliant creation.)

I had a couple of episodes earlier that I was not feeling, to the point that I was considering dropping the season, but I'm glad I stayed because these last two episodes have been far better and gotten more into the dynamics of the cult - not the recruitment, but what happens after you have your core membership and what are you going to do next - and Ivy's death was made of solid gold. I agree with those who shed not a tear for her after the way she tormented her supposed love, a woman she knew was fragile.

I do miss Wes Bentley, Lily Rabe, Dennis O'Hare and - especially - Kathy Bates. Hope they're all back next season, and/or get roles in Pose or the Feud franchise.

[Fable]

I thought this episode was pretty good. Evan Peters does a remarkable job playing the multiple cult leaders, and Kai is certainly charismatic, but I didn't find Ivy/Ally very interesting.  Never for one second did I believe Ally had forgiven Ivy, so their story was predictable.  Also, as much as didn't like Ivy, I also disliked Ally, so I didn't find Ivy's death very satisfactory.  She could have killed Ally instead and I would have been just as indifferent.  

[lyric]

Evan Overload!! 

This is my first season of AHS, and it was bonkers for a couple of eps, but pretty darn good.  I appreciate Evan - he's done a great job across all of these roles but I did feel, during this last episode, that I was watching that Eddie Murphy joint where he plays all the characters -  it was a bit much.

Ditto with those who mentioned the chemistry between him and Paulson over the stove - sizzling hot.   Those two are such solid, compelling actors.  Billie Lourd - not so much.

[Stringey]

So hey I just saw the title for the next episode. Are we going to see a Manson flashback.

[Hazel55]

A fantastic episode, to my mind. 

They included all of the things that have made this season great-- dark characterizations, excellent plot twists, a compelling look into the psychology of leadership and following-- while avoiding some of some of this seasons biggest pitfalls-- gratuitous, uneccesarily graphic blood and gore, violence thrown in for shock value, plodding episodes that don't advance the plot. 

This episode was fast paced and compelling. (Quite a relief after a few previous episodes, including the Lena Dunham endless water treading hour.) Compared to past episodes, the peek at suicidal cults in the beginning was both mercifully brief and well integrated into the main plot line. 

Lessening the overly graphic nature of the torture and death scenes was both a welcome relief and a fantastic technique to deepen the impact of what we're seeing on screen. The brief shots the terrified facial expressions of Jim Jones's remaining followers when they realize that this death is not going to be the peaceful release their leader promised was far, far more powerful than extended sequences of a man in a gimp suit having holes ripped into his flesh. The psychological element they're exploring is far more powerful than anything else, and when they leave out the gratuitous violence and sex thrown in for shock value, the psychological element is really able to shine. 

Evan Peters deserves an effen emmy. Just give him one, already. Paulson has already been loaded with awards, and she is (in my opinion) a far less nuanced and versatile actress. 

Speaking of Paulson, she was far better here than she's been all season. (Though if I was going to knitpick, I might complain that her portrayal of Ally is almost exactly like her portrayal of Marcia Clark, which was almost exactly like her portrayal of Lana Winters, which was very much like her portrayal of Cordelia Foxx. Though I'm not sure if this limited range is her fault or Ryan Murphy's; he's not great at varying the characters he has her play.) It's a relief to see her get her life back, not only so that she can rescue Oz, but because I think we were all tiring a bit of her hand wringing. 

Speaking of Ally, she's a pretty chilling character. Don't get me wrong-- what Ivy did to Ally was inexcusable; Ivy was easily the most despicable character on this show-- worse even, I'd argue, than Kai. I'm sure that many people were cheering Ally during the scene in which she informs Ivy that she's just poisoned her. But personally, I can't get behind Ally's actions 100 percent, morally speaking. Yes, Ivy was despicable and deserved to die, but she was still Oz's mother. The fact that Ally killed Oz's other mom, whom she knows her son loves, and is happily planning to lie to her son for the rest of his life, telling him that he was abandoned, disturbs me. Not nearly as bad as Ivy's manipulation of Oz to believe that Ally was bad/ going crazy; yet both actions are in the same vein of cruel manipulation of children for personal gain and control. 

Of course, Ivy represented a threat to Ally and her rescue of Oz, which would make Ally's actions more understandable. Yet Ally clearly did it first and foremost for revenge, and "to have Oz all to myself." She picked a slow and painful way for Ivy to die, carefully plotted it out, than gleefully watched it happen. Not nearly as bad as Ivy's slower, crueler, much more intricately plotted revenge. And it could be argued that Allly needed to kill Ivy to rescue Oz; and that Oz is better off without Ivy. Still, I'd find it far more admirable if Ally figured out a way to get Oz out, then turned Ivy (and Kai) into the proper authorities. Ivy's deeds would almost surely put her in prison for the rest of her life; and if Ivy chose to claim that Ally had been an accessory in the murder of her former shrink, the fact is that Ivy's words would almost surely have no credibility. Better to let Ivy be punished by the judicial system for what she did, tell Oz about it when he's old enough to know, then let him decide about whether or not he ever wants to visit her in prison or see her again. 

Edited November 2, 2017 by Hazel55

[ShadowHunter]

Props to Angela Bassett for directing this episode. While we saw Evan play 3 cult leaders in a few minutes it took hours/day to shoot that stuff.

Ally is better and more easier to watch but she annoyed me for most of the season so I still cant seem to like her. 

4 minutes ago, Hazel55 said:

Evan Peters deserves an effen emmy. Just give him one, already. Paulson has already been loaded with awards, and she is (in my opinion) a far less nuanced and versatile actress. 

Nice to see Evan getting Emmy love from fans.  I feel the same way about Sarah she falls into the overrated category for me. 

[Hazel55]

On 10/31/2017 at 10:13 PM, Chaos Theory said:

Ivy you know shit has gotten real when Ally is the calm rational one.  I did kinda feel sorry for her for a hot minute but then I remembered everything she put Ally though.

I think that scene was quite cleverly constructed to make us root for Ivy's death and torture, even as she slowly coughed up blood. Her speech to Ally ("You are a weak coward, and you're never gonna really kill me! Nahh na nahh na nahh na!") was clearly constructed to incite ire in the viewer, and remind us all just how very much Ivy deserved it. And she did-- Ivy was vile. Yet encouraging viewers to cheer on a woman's slow, violent death feels the slightest bit disturbing to me. 

However, Ivy's last words were quite true to the characteristic that has most colored her character-- immense hypocrisy. It's never her fault-- she didn't know, she was driven to it, it wasn't fair, if only those around her (namely Ally) would have acted as they should have, she, Ivy, have done what she did. Why did Ivy join the cult? Well, she just HAD to, ya see-- because Ally had the nerve to scream during labor, and accidentally call Oz "my baby" on one occasion. She simply had to gaslight Ally, because Ally was totally annoying Ivy with all of her phobias... which made Ally deserve to be psychologially tortured and deprived of her child. Oh, and even though Ivy apparently met Ally shortly after the former had a full mental breakdown after 9/11, Ivy had no idea (no idea! None!) that Ally would be at all neurotic or mentally ill in the future of their relationship. 

Oh, and Ally also voted for Jill Stine. SO naturally Ivy had to torture her, steal her son, and have her thrown in a mental institution. Yup. 
Ivy's explanation for why she tortured Ally and threatened her son's life by dragging him into a cult was similarly astounding-- well, you see, Hilary lost the election. And Ivy just wanted somebody to take care of her. So... she joined a murderous clown cult? Ivy's logic is truly one of a kind. 

Beverly and Winter, who have passively witnessed and participated in just as many atrocities as Ivy, are less obnoxious to me, since they at least are fairly honest about the motives behind their despicable deeds. If confronted with all she's done, Beverly would at least not even attempt to make excuses or make herself out to be the victim. (Or, at least, she wouldn't until this episode; now she seems to be utterly breaking and losing it.) 

[Hazel55]

On 10/31/2017 at 11:05 PM, Pixel said:

You are correct. Ally confirmed that it wasn’t Kai’s sperm that was used, and then got the receptionist to help her get Kai’s file to use as proof to lie to Kai. 

Arsenic would not kill you that fast. It takes minimum a couple of hours, and that’s if you really dose a lot. I hate when shows do this crap. If she’d just said it was cyanide I’d have bought it. 

Not only that-- arsenic takes hours and hours to work, and would lead to a very slow, very painful death. Far worse than what we saw onscreen. 

 

16 hours ago, ShadowHunter said:

Last season really no Evan Peters. This season everyone is Evan Peters. 

He should have played Valerie Solanas rather than Lena Dunham. That would have been awesome. 

[Stringey]

8 minutes ago, Hazel55 said:

I think that scene was quite cleverly constructed to make us root for Ivy's death and torture, even as she slowly coughed up blood. Her speech to Ally ("You are a weak coward, and you're never gonna really kill me! Nahh na nahh na nahh na!") was clearly constructed to incite ire in the viewer, and remind us all just how very much Ivy deserved it. And she did-- Ivy was vile. Yet encouraging viewers to cheer on a woman's slow, violent death feels the slightest bit disturbing to me. 

However, Ivy's last words were quite true to the characteristic that has most colored her character-- immense hypocrisy. It's never her fault-- she didn't know, she was driven to it, it wasn't fair, if only those around her (namely Ally) would have acted as they should have, she, Ivy, have done what she did. Why did Ivy join the cult? Well, she just HAD to, ya see-- because Ally had the nerve to scream during labor, and accidentally call Oz "my baby" on one occasion. She simply had to gaslight Ally, because Ally was totally annoying Ivy with all of her phobias... which made Ally deserve to be psychologially tortured and deprived of her child. Oh, and even though Ivy apparently met Ally shortly after the former had a full mental breakdown after 9/11, Ivy had no idea (no idea! None!) that Ally would be at all neurotic or mentally ill in the future of their relationship. 

Oh, and Ally also voted for Jill Stine. SO naturally Ivy had to torture her, steal her son, and have her thrown in a mental institution. Yup. 
Ivy's explanation for why she tortured Ally and threatened her son's life by dragging him into a cult was similarly astounding-- well, you see, Hilary lost the election. And Ivy just wanted somebody to take care of her. So... she joined a murderous clown cult? Ivy's logic is truly one of a kind. 

Beverly and Winter, who have passively witnessed and participated in just as many atrocities as Ivy, are less obnoxious to me, since they at least are fairly honest about the motives behind their despicable deeds. If confronted with all she's done, Beverly would at least not even attempt to make excuses or make herself out to be the victim. (Or, at least, she wouldn't until this episode; now she seems to be utterly breaking and losing it.) 

Despite the fact ivy was so evil I could not help being creeped out by the scene of her dying and her  knowing her son will think she just ran away and nothing she can do about it. Basically imagine feeling both physical anguish and emotional anguish simultaneously to the biggest degree. 

[In a dream]

I've got to say, I didn't have one iota of sympathy for Ivy.  Any spouse that had done the things Ivy had done could never be trusted again. Especially if you're fighting for the life of your child.  Ivy was too big of a liability to hold onto, too many liars and backstabbers around.  Glad Ally had the resolve to get rid of her.

Edited November 2, 2017 by In a dream
correction

[Captanne]

5 hours ago, ShadowHunter said:

Props to Angela Bassett for directing this episode.

Interesting.  This is the first time in the whole series that I actually noticed the direction and it took me out of the story.  I thought to myself, "Oh, that's amateurish."

It was the angle down at Ally in the front hallway of their house with Oz as they reunited.  The camera was looking from way above but over Oz's left shoulder and then moved in a really distracting way down to the kneeling Ally.

Such a bad setup that I actually noticed it, was removed from the scene, and remember it still.

Edited November 2, 2017 by Captanne

[TobinAlbers]

5 hours ago, Stringey said:

Despite the fact ivy was so evil I could not help being creeped out by the scene of her dying and her  knowing her son will think she just ran away and nothing she can do about it. Basically imagine feeling both physical anguish and emotional anguish simultaneously to the biggest degree. 

Which was exactly how Ally said she felt in the institution- physically in distress because of her phobias, emotionally dying from her torture by Ivy and knowing Ivy put her there and from the separation from her son and anguish in not knowing his fate, left for dead by Ivy who was telling their son all kinds of lies about Ally to drive a wedge between them. Ivy did stand around and watch Ally's suffering both as the 'concerned' spouse and as one of the clown mask wearers. Ally just served alllll that back to Ivy with Ally's triumphant face being the last thing Ivy sees as she writhes in agony.

It was pretty poetic. 

[buttercupia]

my take on kai playing the cult leaders and warhol-all of these stories are coming from his twisted pov. granted we didn't know that about warhol until after the fact when they showed him commiserating w/frances conroy. it would have been interesting to have him play solanas too, but that might have given too much away.

[Blinkoshuman]

Lyric said: "Those two are such solid, compelling actors. Billie Lourd - not so much." Agree....Billie Lourd is terrible. She has literally zero facial expressions.