S02.E09: Chapter Nine: The Gate

[2727]

On 10/27/2017 at 9:15 PM, Pogojoco said:

Lucas' sister is the best. "Code Shut your Mouth"

Fun article from Mashable showing every instance of Erica being awesome.

[blueray]

I finally finished it. I really love this show and loved that they got mostly a happy ending. Mike and Eleven finally got to got to the dance. And poor Dustin, but at least Nancy was nice to him. I do wish that there were more scenes with Mike & Eleven. They really only had like two scenes together and one was a group one. I'm glad that they finally got some justice for Barb and now her parents can have the closer that they needed. I like that the sheriff took Eleven in permanently.

Anyhow, I generally liked this season, it wasn't as good as last one but that's okay. I do feel like the pacing could have been a little better, especially in the middle. I also didn't get the point of Max's step-brother other than him taking up screen time that could have gone to someone else. I didn't like his character and I didn't need any further explanation to Max's family other then they were abusive. I feel like I kept waiting for this to pay off and it never did. Oh well, it would be nice if we never saw him again. I do like Max though, she added to the story.

Overall, great show to binge and I really hope it gets a third season.

Edited October 29, 2017 by blueray

[Last Time Lord]

I knew a third season was already ordered before this one even dropped. Maybe the initial response was so great that they already ordered a fourth?

[scarynikki12]

The response to the Comic Con trailer alone would justify a fourth season.

Upon rewatch I think one of my favorite little bits of this episode is Mike's hatred of getting his picture taken juxtaposed with his mom's enthusiasm.  "Mooooooom!" "You look so handsome!"  That's such a middle school moment.

[Enigma X]

I like this season more for many of the reasons many liked it less.

I adore Max. Billy is a douche, but I don't mind him because it helps make Max more 3-dimensional. I also don't mind Eleven meeting her mother, aunt, and "sister" (and hope we see more like them in the future). Lucas and Dustin were more fleshed out this season and Will has become my favorite of the kids. I am glad Lucas and Max went to the dance together.I really like Mike but he was a bit annoying at times. Dustin needed a smack for keeping the demigorgon/dog. Unlike Mike, whom I liked  despite his annoying moments, I  really was annoyed  by Dustin (as I was in season one). Every group of friends needs that guy though. And Steve became another favorite of mine. I really wanted to hate him still. I couldn't.

The best relationship for me this season was not Mike and El (cute, but...) but was El and Hopper. I really loved the father/daughter dynamic.  

I actually liked that El was separated from the group as well.

And Bob. I am so glad you were a good guy and sad to see you go.

[backhometome]

The season started a little slow but the last half was really good.

 

Steve and the kids was the best part of the season for me. Sticking him with the kids was great. I was really worried that Billy was going to kill Steve the way he was wailing on him. Billy was the worst. Steve called himself a shitty boyfriend and I dont agree at all. He was good to Nancy this season and she didnt recognize it at all. 

 

Eleven was too separated from the group this season. It took too long for her to come back into the main group. I found her detour to her sister kinda boring. 

 

If I never hear Winona saying "my boy" ever again it will be too soon. She can be OTT but it works for this show I think.

 

Poor Bob. I liked him especially when he figured out the map. RIP.

 

The kid who plays Will was def. the MVP this season. He was really good. 

[Last Time Lord]

I... may have just purchased a Three Musketeers Bar. 

Curse your influencing ways, Stranger Things!

[EarlGreyTea]

Just now, Last Time Lord said:

I... may have just purchased a Three Musketeers Bar. 

Curse your influencing ways, Stranger Things!

I bought Eggos for the first time in about 15 years. Whatever Three Musketeers and Eggos are paying for the exposure, it isn't enough. The show is a phenomenon. I wonder if anyone else turned them down a la M&Ms in E.T.

Did anyone else notice Will drew a picture of Bob in a superhero costume in this episode, hanging on the wall? Adorable.

[blueray]

Quote

The kid who plays Will was def. the MVP this season. He was really good. 

I agree too. He did a great job especially during the excoism scene.

[SeanC]

58 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

Upon rewatch I think one of my favorite little bits of this episode is Mike's hatred of getting his picture taken juxtaposed with his mom's enthusiasm.  "Mooooooom!" "You look so handsome!"  That's such a middle school moment.

He had the same reaction in the montage of the kids and their Ghostbusters costumes back in Episode 2, so he's definitely not big on picture-taking.

It seems like Owens' suggestion that they wait a while before taking Eleven public is meant to allow Season 3 to show her integrating into Hawkins for the first time (in other circumstances, the show could just set the next season shortly after this one, but with the kids growing like weeds that's not viable).  Mike's parents being introduced to "Jane" is something they should get some mileage out of.

[absnow54]

3 hours ago, Blue Plastic said:

I felt just the tiniest bit sorry for Dart when he was lying there dead/dying next to a 3 Musketeers candy wrapper.  Like just 0.000000000000000001% sorry.  I love cats and he ate Dustin's cat so I hate that, but a small part of him trusted Dustin so I guess that's why I felt a tiny bit sorry.

The second Dart ate Mews he was dead to me, but I did feel bad for Dustin in that last scene.

1 hour ago, backhometome said:

Steve called himself a shitty boyfriend and I dont agree at all. He was good to Nancy this season and she didnt recognize it at all. 

Steve was a shitty boyfriend last season, but this season he was flawless. Steve and Nancy were just a textbook case of "It's not you, it's me." I hope he gets a love interest who appreciates him next season, even though this cast is already crazy bloated. Maybe Steve will win the heart of Mrs Wheeler.

Slightly off topic, but I had forgotten a lot of details from the first season and was refreshing with a few clips, and didn't realize that Jonathan was the one who made the nail bat. Now I'm wondering if he gave the bat to Steve or if Steve stole it.

Edited October 29, 2017 by absnow54
Can't keep track of surnames...

[backhometome]

The Wheeler's seemed to be even more oblivious this season. They dont seem to care that both their kids disappear for long lengths of time. I did laugh when Mr. Wheeler said they didnt live here anymore.

[SeanC]

24 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

Maybe Steve will win the heart of Mrs Harrington.

I assume you mean Mrs. Wheeler, unless Season 3 is taking things in a very disturbed direction, heh.

[Dovega]

I enjoyed this season. I hope Noah gets recognition for his acting like Millie did last season because he shone brightly in all his scenes. I loved Joyce being a strong momma and doing everything to help her son.

Bob was such a great guy, he will be missed. At first it was like "really Joyce?" but as the episodes went on and I totally got it and thought he was a keeper. I'd gladly end up with a Bob.

I liked Hopper and Eleven but the scene where he kept yelling at her made me so uncomfortable due to my own bad experiences at home. I'm glad he apologized at the end and that he will have Joyce to confide now so he can keep his temperament in check.

I liked Max but I hated when she kept being treated badly by everyone, even the kids, especially Mike. Her brother was such a disgusting creep. I like that she defended herself from him but I can't see his abuse ending there.

I think Jonathan and Nancy do have chemistry so they make and okay couple but I hated how apart they were from the rest of the storylines. I do like the little touches that remind us that Nancy kicks ass though, like her grabbing the shotgun and later on when she helped burning the monster out of Will.

I could deal without so much of the romantic plots. It feels like everyone on this show has to be paired up.  I just can't get into Mike/Eleven and Dustin was annoying when he treated Max badly because she liked Lucas better. His last scene with Nancy was very cute though, I'm glad she was there for him.

Steve was at his best with Dustin and the kids. He was a much better character this season.

I felt so bad for Dustin's mom when her cat died. A pet is family. I tried not to get attached because I knew the cat was a gonner as soon as I saw that trash bin shaking but it was still horrifying to see his poor bloody and mangled body. Though I oddly feel bad for Dart dying as well.

I was pleasently surprised Paul Raiser's character ended up being a good guy who believed in Will (though he shouldn't have) and helped everyone to get out of the labs.

I could have done without Eleven's standalone episode but I didn't hate it, the placement was just unfortunate. 

Edited October 29, 2017 by Dovega

[2727]

I want a Steve and Dustin spin-off, just philosophizing about life and going to the mall to buy hair products. It could even be a YT series of 5 minute spots. Seriously want.

2 hours ago, Last Time Lord said:

I ... may have just purchased a Three Musketeers Bar.

They made me look up what the filling is ... I was very dubious about nougat. Wikipedia calls it "whipped nougat" but the official Mars site is silent on the matter, other than admitting to "cocoa powder processed with alkali, salt, egg whites, artificial and natural flavors."

#JusticeForMews

Edited October 29, 2017 by 2727

[AimingforYoko]

I would like to point out how badass Nancy was taking the hot poker to PosessedWill. I guess she was following Joyce's lead, but I don't know if I'd have the cojones to do that to a kid.

[moonshine71]

Loved this season, was a great follow up. But one minor complaint sticks out for me-

 

How creepy is it that middle aged, balding conspiracy nut guy is encouraging a couple of high school kids to bang in his guest room? After plying them with alcohol? And the "pull out" joke the next morning felt really out of place on this show. I'm not wilting flower, i like some raunchy stuff when it is in the right context, but i didn't really need images of Jonathan splooging on Nancy's stomach....

[Black Knight]

First off, overall I loved this season more than I did S1.

I wish they hadn't killed Bob. I've never felt any particular desire to see Joyce paired with Hopper, but it's worse now that the show gave Joyce someone who was a better partner for her and a more relatable stepfather for Will than Hopper ever will be.

Winona Ryder kicked ass all season.

I was amused at Eleven's jealousy when she saw Will and Max earlier in the season, but I do hope that when S3 starts she'll have gotten over that after realizing it had no true foundation and that she and Max are now friends. I don't want to see a rivalry over dudes continue and this show has no female friendships apart from Nancy/Barb which ended very early on.

I felt for Dustin, but at the same time I didn't want to see Steve's advice about playing games validated, so I appreciated that Max ended up liking the boy who was more direct with her.

[david gideon]

This was a good wrap-up for a so-so season. Things took a bit too long to get started, the gang were split apart and off doing different things too much, El was separated for too long and in clumsy, cliched ways (like the stereotypical misunderstood non-romantic encounter), and don't get me started on that episode from some other show that popped up right in the middle of a cliffhanger. Still, I'm a sucker for the Hardy Boys/Goonies teen adventure genre, newcomers Max and Bob were good, and when the show clicked it was first-rate. One more gripe: does every show have to include a presage-of-doom tag ending? Can't people be happy for a few months until the evil returns, as it inevitably will? But if you must leave on a note of impending evil, make it a little more gripping than the one they came up with. Overall: a solid B.

Edited October 30, 2017 by david gideon

[raven]

55 minutes ago, AimingforYoko said:

I would like to point out how badass Nancy was taking the hot poker to PosessedWill.

I like that the show continues the theme of badass women; I loved that Joyce jumped right into the hole to go after Hopper. much to poor doomed Bob's consternation.  Joyce is on edge and all that, but I can't help but like her and the way she fights for Will.  I also found her over protectiveness to be completely in character and totally understandable.  Max held her own and ultimately downed her dick step brother and El of course is the ultimate badass, showing up to save her friends from the pack.

Other things I liked:

After rescuing Hopper, the "Hey Bob" "Hey Jim" exchange between the two men like they're at a barbecue or something.

The fun side characters - Lucas's sister; Hopper's staff (especially the woman in the office who gives him the apple and his keys); the woman in the school office who kind of rolls her eyes and points to the phone when Joyce calls; awesome science teacher Mr. Clarke, though making new kid Max stand at the front of the class and be introduced was not cool.

Movie callbacks - Aliens when the soldiers get surrounded and killed by the demadogs; Jurassic Park when Bob has to turn on the breakers and reboot the system; E.T. with El and dressing as a ghost with a sheet and wanting to go home; I'm sure there are more.

I also loved the El and Hopper relationship - the scene where he does a a little dance and we see her "dad embarrassment" was great.  Though the argument was uncomfortable, it was really well acted and Hopper is not a perfect character so it made sense.  I think he did not tell Joyce about her because she had her hands full with Will's recovery.  It was obvious Joyce and all the kids felt he was the main contact if things were going wrong (how many times did we hear "did you call/tell Hopper") so he may have been feeling the pressure of holding everything together and thought he could do it on his own. 

Though the Barb closure was probably driven by fan service, I was glad we got it; it gave depth to Nancy and Steve and gave Nancy and Jonathan a side story about bringing things into the open and letting Barb's parents know she was dead.  Steve I believe was on his way to college (I think she is helping him with an admissions essay in one of the early episodes) so we may not see him in a subsequent season - just my guess, while Nancy and Jonathan are both still in HS. 

Steve of course got great development as head babysitter and yes, he was brave.  The whole junkyard sequence was so tense, I thought for sure he was a goner!  So if he isn't back, at least he got some great final bits.  I also enjoyed his mentoring of Dustin, though his advice about women was terrible.   Dustin tearing up at the dance broke my heart a little so I was so happy that Nancy asked him to dance.

I was apprehensive but ultimately enjoyed El's side trip to find her momma and lost sister.  Not sure how I feel about that group running around murdering people, even if they are evil and awful, but it helped El with her powers and to decided for herself that she wants to be in Hawkins, which I liked.   Plus there is the hint that Matthew Modine's character might still be alive, though I thought we saw him chewed up last season. 

Like most of you, I really like the Mike/El relationship and I thought Lucas and Max worked really well.  The kids portray their emotions so believably.  My heart also broke a little for Will, trying so hard to be brave and face the creature like Bob did in his dream, only to have it all go wrong.  I also hope Will gets a break in upcoming seasons, poor kid has been through enough.   I loved that he drew a picture of Bob as a superhero though.  Aw Bob, as soon as you paused in the lobby, I knew you were dead.  Just to remind us that the demadogs are not really cuddly pets, I guess.  We do see Dart dead at the end, next to the 3 Musketeers wrapper, and I felt a little badly.  He did let Dustin and friends go.

I think next season we'll see El and Max be friends.  Maybe there will be a time jump (the kids will be older and probably look it, Finn Wolfhard towers over everyone else in group photos) and maybe we'll see El, now Jane, being integrated into school and everything else. 

Oh I almost forgot, I didn't even recognize Paul Reiser when he first appeared!  Damn I feel old.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

I am surprised that so many people are glad El is ending up with Hopper when her mother is cationic mess from the heartbreak of loosing her. I was hoping El would rejoin her family and they could start healing. The aunt seemed like a good hearted woman. While Hopper is okay and I don't doubt that he loves El, he did keep the traumatized girl isolated for a whole year. That is a big deal that I feel is brushed aside. Also, what did he mean by her mother is gone when she asked about her? I would be more into the idea of El living with him if she didn't already have a family who could love and nurture her better than the well meaning guy who kept her hidden for a year. She can go to school at Hawkin's middle school and continue to see all her friends. 

As for this season as a whole, I liked her as much as I did season 1. I was too little to remember most things in the 80's, I recognized most of the songs but the most touching was "Time After Time". I guess the fact that all the kids survived the upside world again made me emotional.

I hope they recognize Max as an official member of the party next season. She's earned her place. Now that is a little girl who could use the groups distraction. Her mother is sweet but she is not always around to protect her from her tyrant stepbrother. 

RIP Bob. I was hoping Hopper/El would run into an alive Bob when they came across the doctor. Oh well, he went down a real hero.  

I am rooting for Steve and Nancy to make up. The thing with Johnattan is too emo for my liking. Also don't want to see Hopper/Joyce

Edited October 30, 2017 by Deputy Deputy CoS
Added more thoughts

[AimingforYoko]

24 minutes ago, raven said:

Movie callbacks - Aliens when the soldiers get surrounded and killed by the demadogs

Also the control room when the power went out, "What do you mean they cut the power?!? They're just a bunch of dumb animals!"

[raven]

8 minutes ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

I am surprised that so many people are glad El is ending up with Hopper when her mother is cationic mess from the heartbreak of loosing her. I was hoping El would rejoin her family and they could start healing. The aunt seemed like a good hearted woman.

I thought the mother was the way she was because of the shock treatment.   I don't think El could go to school in Hawkins if she lived there, she had to hitch a ride to get to the house, I don't think they are that close in distance. 

I do agree with your larger point that El should have a relationship with her aunt and her mother if possible.  When she was there, all I could envision for her was that she would feel should would have to take care of her catatonic mother.  While Hopper keeping her cooped up was wrong, she is not going to be safe anywhere really and I think Hopper and her friends can at least be aware of trying to help keep her safe.

I actually don't want to see Hopper/Joyce either, I like them as friends.  I really liked how Bob jumped in to help and accepted things, more reasons I was not happy to lose him.  It was so nice for Joyce to be with a regular, happy guy who didn't have a tragic past.

[MisterGlass]

5 minutes ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

Also, what did he mean by her mother is gone when she asked about her?

I think that is from the Obi Wan Kenobi style of answering difficult questions - true from a certain point of view.  As far as Hopper knew her mother was locked in and unable to communicate, and in that context gone from the world.  He probably thought it would be easier or safer to say that than to explain the details.  He knew her aunt didn't believe that Jane was alive, and it's possible that her aunt would have been monitored by the government to see if El showed up.  Legally her aunt should be her guardian.  However, of three possible homes that El visited this year, she chose Hawkins.  Hopefully she will be able to have some relationship with her aunt going forward.

3 hours ago, absnow54 said:

Steve and Nancy were just a textbook case of "It's not you, it's me."

I think that sums it up.  Steve was a pretty decent guy.  I was prepared to dislike him forever when I thought for a few minutes that he left her alone and drunk at that party, but no, it turned out he made sure she had someone to take her home.  He just liked her more than she liked him, and that he can accept that shows that he's grown as a person.

14 minutes ago, raven said:

After rescuing Hopper, the "Hey Bob" "Hey Jim" exchange between the two men like they're at a barbecue or something.

I loved that moment.

[EarlGreyTea]

25 minutes ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

I am surprised that so many people are glad El is ending up with Hopper when her mother is cationic mess from the heartbreak of loosing her. I was hoping El would rejoin her family and they could start healing. The aunt seemed like a good hearted woman. While Hopper is okay and I don't doubt that he loves El, he did keep the traumatized girl isolated for a whole year. That is a big deal that I feel is brushed aside. Also, what did he mean by her mother is gone when she asked about her? I would be more into the idea of El living with him if she didn't already have a family who could love and nurture her better than the well meaning guy who kept her hidden for a year. She can go to school at Hawkin's middle school and continue to see all her friends.

Agreed, but I think it's established that the mom and aunt live a good distance away, so not good for a commute. No way are they letting Eleven leave Hawkins away from the storyline action (or at least, they better not). Ideally, the aunt and mom would have the resources to move to Hawkins and they could work out some shared custody deal with Hopper, although I can't imagine him not allowing her to visit. I already mentioned my dislike of the Hopper/Eleven storyline, so maybe I'm being unreasonable, but I didn't like how the aunt wasn't mentioned at all re: adoption in this episode. Hopper is barely home as it is, with more issues than Reader's Digest to boot, so I hope they work something out. The actress playing Becky, the aunt, was so good. She brought some depth to the role and helped us understand how much that family has lost. She even offered to take Eleven in, so skating over that in this episode was kind of annoying.

I still kind of miss Mike's idea of letting Eleven move in with him, even giving her his bedroom, but that was always a pipe dream. No way those absentee parents can handle another kid, and one who's romantically involved with one of their own kids at that.

Edited October 30, 2017 by EarlGreyTea

[starri]

Was Finn Wolfhard off filming It when this was in production?  Because it seemed like with El off on her own, Mike got benched a lot over the season.  

[EarlGreyTea]

3 minutes ago, starri said:

Was Finn Wolfhard off filming It when this was in production?  Because it seemed like with El off on her own, Mike got benched a lot over the season.  

No, IT wrapped in summer 2016, and ST season 2 began filming in October 2016. It's possible he was busy with reshoots, but as far as I know, the main filming was done by that time. Speaking of filming, seems possible we won't be seeing season 3 until 2019, since it looks like they're nowhere near ready to begin even pre-production for season 3.

Edited October 30, 2017 by EarlGreyTea

[secnarf]

43 minutes ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

I am surprised that so many people are glad El is ending up with Hopper when her mother is cationic mess from the heartbreak of loosing her. I was hoping El would rejoin her family and they could start healing. The aunt seemed like a good hearted woman.

It wasn't from losing her daughter. The mother shows us in those flashbacks that she was essentially "short-circuited" by the "bad men" in order to shut her up and stop her from interfering/looking for Jane. The impression I got was that it was irreversible, although I suppose the show could change their minds about that at any point since it's not like they are restricted by real life.

[SnoGirl]

17 minutes ago, starri said:

Was Finn Wolfhard off filming It when this was in production?  Because it seemed like with El off on her own, Mike got benched a lot over the season.  

Well, if you think about it, everyone had stories that further their character's growth. El found out her family's story AND we saw her story with Hopper. Lucas was intertwined with Mad Max but we also met his family, Dustin had Dart and then Babysitter/older brother Steve story and his family story, and Nancy and Jonathan went off on their journalist story. Not to mention Will had his own story he was present for. With this season only being one episode longer, something had to give. I think this season, it was Mike. It was really his and El's story last season, so I appreciate him taking the backseat. Plus, he was really involved in Will's story.

Im hoping that next season they're all together. I like the story better when the gang is together. Im also really pulling for some El/Max/Joyce/Nancy bad-ass scenes together. They each had their moments, but I'd kill for a scene to have more females than males in it next season. I think the closest we got to it was when El was with Kali and her gang. It would be a sweet bonus if Erica or Mrs. Wheeler were involved too. 

I'm also seconding Steve becoming a Cop. He could join Hopper's crew, who already has some crazy characters in it. 

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

19 minutes ago, secnarf said:

It wasn't from losing her daughter. The mother shows us in those flashbacks that she was essentially "short-circuited" by the "bad men" in order to shut her up and stop her from interfering/looking for Jane. 

How is it not from losing her daughter?

I understand the distance being an impediment to Jane being part of the crew but still, the adoption doesn't sit well with me. Not when she has perfectly accepting family of her own. 

[secnarf]

2 minutes ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

How is it not from losing her daughter?

I understand the distance being an impediment to Jane being part of the crew but still, the adoption doesn't sit well with me. Not when she has perfectly accepting family of her own. 

Because we were shown that it was from electricity short-circuiting her brain?

I'm not sure what you're asking here.

[SeanC]

1 hour ago, Black Knight said:

I was amused at Eleven's jealousy when she saw Will and Max earlier in the season, but I do hope that when S3 starts she'll have gotten over that after realizing it had no true foundation and that she and Max are now friends. I don't want to see a rivalry over dudes continue and this show has no female friendships apart from Nancy/Barb which ended very early on.

I don't think there's going to be anything more on that front.  Eleven momentarily misunderstood things, but by the end of the season she and Mike are finally able to be around each other and Max is with Lucas.

I agree that I hope to see more of the two girls interacting (as well as Eleven and Nancy, one of the main character pairings that the narrative has heretofore not had any room for).

39 minutes ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

I am surprised that so many people are glad El is ending up with Hopper when her mother is cationic mess from the heartbreak of loosing her. I was hoping El would rejoin her family and they could start healing. The aunt seemed like a good hearted woman. While Hopper is okay and I don't doubt that he loves El, he did keep the traumatized girl isolated for a whole year. That is a big deal that I feel is brushed aside. Also, what did he mean by her mother is gone when she asked about her? I would be more into the idea of El living with him if she didn't already have a family who could love and nurture her better than the well meaning guy who kept her hidden for a year. She can go to school at Hawkin's middle school and continue to see all her friends. 

On a writing level the degree of secrecy that Hopper deemed necessary may seem a bit contrived, but in-universe I don't think there's ever any indication he was wrong that she needed to stay hidden away.  It's only Dr. Owens' document forgery and/or any additional behind the scenes lobbying he may have done that facilitates any prospect of Eleven living openly, and even then Owens suggests they shouldn't be in a rush to do that.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

Just now, secnarf said:

Because we were shown that it was from electricity short-circuiting her brain?

I'm not sure what you're asking here.

Which happened because she was looking for her stolen child. 

Am I not following the events properly or something? You stated yourself why she was electrocuted but then go on to say assert it wasn't why she is catatonic. 

[secnarf]

29 minutes ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

Which happened because she was looking for her stolen child. 

Am I not following the events properly or something? You stated yourself why she was electrocuted but then go on to say assert it wasn't why she is catatonic. 

The initial post stated that the catatonia was due to the heartbreak of losing her, and implied that Eleven coming to live with them would allow them to heal from the heartbreak.
Won't work because electrocution was the direct cause of the catatonia. I don't see any heartbreak at any point - just desperation similar to Joyce in season 1.

Edited October 30, 2017 by secnarf

[wingster55]

1 hour ago, MisterGlass said:

I think that sums it up.  Steve was a pretty decent guy.  I was prepared to dislike him forever when I thought for a few minutes that he left her alone and drunk at that party, but no, it turned out he made sure she had someone to take her home.  He just liked her more than she liked him, and that he can accept that shows that he's grown as a person.

I loved that moment.

Truth be told I always thought Johnathan was lying about that. Covering for Steve, who he grew to tolerate (at worst). 

In regards to that triangle it's definitely not over if Steve's final shot is anything to go by...I do hope that all three form a friendship. 

[kitcloudkicker]

2 hours ago, MisterGlass said:

I think that sums it up.  Steve was a pretty decent guy.  I was prepared to dislike him forever when I thought for a few minutes that he left her alone and drunk at that party, but no, it turned out he made sure she had someone to take her home.  He just liked her more than she liked him, and that he can accept that shows that he's grown as a person.

I love Steve’s character development. I also thought it was rather telling (and a bit heartbreaking) in Nancy’s drunken “bullshit” speech when she tells him, “We killed Barb.” For Nancy, she can’t get over the guilt that if she hadn’t been so horny for Steve, Barb would likely still be alive. (I mean, they were pretty shitty to Barb.) That makes it hard to have a normal relationship with him now. 

[Black Knight]

3 hours ago, SeanC said:

I don't think there's going to be anything more on that front.  Eleven momentarily misunderstood things, but by the end of the season she and Mike are finally able to be around each other and Max is with Lucas.

Well, the Duffer brothers have already said that Max and Lucas might not last more than a couple of weeks, since relationships at that age generally don't last long, and there's always a big time jump between seasons. So it sounds like they won't be together when S3 begins. I can live with that, it would be pretty silly for people their age to be in LTRs, but I'd hate if it meant that instead of the girls being friends they're going to be rivals. So hopefully the writers won't take it in that direction.

[afrocorgi]

Can I just say how seriously impressive it is that the kids are not just as good as they were last season, but even better? I have watched too many movies/TV shows with adorable, precocious kids who give adorable, precocious performances only to lose their minds a couple of years later to awkwardness and self-consciousness as they go through puberty. It seems as soon as growth spurts start happening and voices start deepening, an alarming number of kid actors simply forget how to act (recent good example: Modern Family), and I was terrified it was going to happen to the kids on this show. I am stunned that not only has that not happened, but every single member of the kid cast has far surpassed their work in the last season. Brown, Wolfhard and Schnapp are turning in better dramatic turns than a lot of actors twice their age and I dare you to find a more funny, likeable performance than the one Matarazzo gave this season. Dustin did about twenty stupid things per episode this season and it's only by virtue of his charm that we're never annoyed with him for it. 

I hope all the kids get serious pay bumps when they go into renegotiation for their contracts next season, because they deserve every penny they can squeeze out of Netflix.

[Paloma]

On 10/28/2017 at 10:35 PM, MerBearStare said:

It's one thing to be a surly, misunderstood teen with parent issues, but he's a psychopath. And for me, that's no fun to watch. I was glad when Max got him towards the end.

I was glad when she gave him the knockout drug also, but it really made me worry what he would do to get revenge on her and her friends. 

19 hours ago, Blue Plastic said:

20 hours ago, Dev F said:

So someone on Reddit proposed a particularly interesting idea about where they might be going with Billy's storyline. They pointed out that Max injected him with the same needle they were using to sedate Will. If we're going with the "Mind Flayer = virus" analogy, couldn't that mean that Billy is now infected through blood-to-blood contact?

Granted, it wouldn't exactly be in keeping with the gang's theory that cutting the hosts off from the Mind Flayer would inevitably kill them, but maybe they were wrong about that where human hosts are concerned. And it would make sense that the writers might want to transfer the Big Bad from one of their protagonists to a character who's already a villain, so they don't have to repeat the same Save our possessed friend! beats to get the Mind Flayer back in play.

Interesting theory.  Gives them a good excuse to kill Billy next season since he's already horrible and being infected with the hive mind will only make him even worse.  There would really be no way to rescue him like there was for Will.

I'd be OK with that theory if the virus kills Billy before he can take his revenge for Max knocking him out.

[Paloma]

12 hours ago, raven said:

I think next season we'll see El and Max be friends.  Maybe there will be a time jump (the kids will be older and probably look it, Finn Wolfhard towers over everyone else in group photos) and maybe we'll see El, now Jane, being integrated into school and everything else. 

I don't see how they can film another season without a time jump, probably to the younger kids' high school years (at least 9th grade), but I hope that doesn't make them focus on romantic relationships. For me the depiction of young friendship was a big part of the appeal of the first two seasons, and I would prefer El and Mike to be best friends rather than lovers--though I'd be OK with an innocent "first love" relationship if it doesn't get sexual. I also want to see El and Max become friends, because girl friendships are important, too! El and Max would make a great evil-fighting duo, with or without the boys.

12 hours ago, raven said:

Oh I almost forgot, I didn't even recognize Paul Reiser when he first appeared!  Damn I feel old.

Me, too. And at first I didn't even think of his Aliens role--when I finally recognized him, I thought of Mad About You. But then again, I am old. 

[benteen]

I finished this show yesterday and I very much enjoyed it.  I liked the first season better but still, very happy that this show returned.

Very impressed with the acting from the cast and crew, especially the kids.  Millie in particular...you can see El is learning more and more words but she's very convincing portraying someone who really is learning to talk extensively for the first time.  She and Harbour were excellent together and the rest of the kids remain stellar.  I liked the character of Max although she really doesn't affect the plot very much.

The guy who played Billy looked so much like Rob Lowe it was distracting.  He really looked like St. Elmo's Fire Rob Lowe.

Astin was awesome...was very sad to lose Bob.

Although if anyone was put through the ringer this season, it's Will.  It's brutal what he went through and I really hope this is the end of his demonic possession.  Give the poor kid a break!

While I love the visuals in the Upside Down world, the world itself continues to be boring.

Edited October 30, 2017 by benteen

[nodorothyparker]

Didn't the aunt tell Eleven that the doctors believed that her mother's condition is irreversible and unlikely to ever improve?  It's pretty heavily implied in Eleven's visions that the ECT her mother received short circuited her brain to put her in the state she is now to shut her up about her missing baby.

Sure, in the real world a blood relative would generally likely be a preferred placement for guardianship, but Dr. Owens suggested at the end that it still may take some time for things to completely settle to the point where Eleven can live anywhere openly and try to have a normal life.  He even suggested they wait another year, which by now Hopper understands can't look like the year preceding it.  I think this also goes back to one of the Lost Sister episode's themes of choice.  Eleven has had precious few choices in her life thus far and she chose to go back to Hawkins where she has friends and someone willing to step into that parent role.  She's also old enough that any court or child services type agency is going to take her wishes into account.  Most people would be hard pressed to not give that a fair amount of weight.  

[ghoulina]

17 hours ago, lora said:

Also El was amazing in closing the gate, her sister had a purpose after all, she kinda helped her learn how to use her power.

I kind of took issue with that. I get that that's what they were trying to do, with El meeting Kali, who is older and wiser and has been using her powers longer. But....El didn't seem to have any trouble using her powers last season. Sometimes she got too physically drained to go on, but she was tossing vans and snapping necks without any trouble. So it seemed kind of a retcon, to me, that she suddenly struggled to use them. I do think she is better able to harness the energy to use them when she's upset, angry, stressed out. But, IMO, that's a good thing. It reigns her in a bit. But it's not like she'd be feeling all calm, cool, and relaxed when shutting down the Shadow Monster. So I didn't think she needed anyone to teach her how to do that. 

 

17 hours ago, Last Time Lord said:

I knew a third season was already ordered before this one even dropped. Maybe the initial response was so great that they already ordered a fourth?

I just recently read that the Duffer brothers said they saw this as a 4 season show, and that they do have a general idea for an ending in mind. 

 

16 hours ago, EarlGreyTea said:

Did anyone else notice Will drew a picture of Bob in a superhero costume in this episode, hanging on the wall? Adorable.

YES. That was so sweet. Bob was a really good guy. I'm sad they lost him; Joyce and her sons needed a decent guy like that around.

 

13 hours ago, moonshine71 said:

How creepy is it that middle aged, balding conspiracy nut guy is encouraging a couple of high school kids to bang in his guest room? After plying them with alcohol? And the "pull out" joke the next morning felt really out of place on this show. I'm not wilting flower, i like some raunchy stuff when it is in the right context, but i didn't really need images of Jonathan splooging on Nancy's stomach....

I got worried for a minute that that guy was going to try and do something to them. 

 

13 hours ago, raven said:

I loved that Joyce jumped right into the hole to go after Hopper. much to poor doomed Bob's consternation.  Joyce is on edge and all that, but I can't help but like her and the way she fights for Will.  I also found her over protectiveness to be completely in character and totally understandable.

Amen. I love Joyce. She is the personification of "Mama Bear". She will believe her son, advocate for her son, FIGHT for her son. She's been consistent from start to end and I think her OTT ways totally work in this context. 

 

13 hours ago, raven said:

After rescuing Hopper, the "Hey Bob" "Hey Jim" exchange between the two men like they're at a barbecue or something.

I loved that too. Bob could have been jealous that Joyce was so concerned about Hopper. Hopper could have been like, "Why is this guy all up in our business now?" But they were both cool and confident, loved it. 

 

13 hours ago, raven said:

Movie callbacks - Aliens when the soldiers get surrounded and killed by the demadogs; Jurassic Park when Bob has to turn on the breakers and reboot the system; E.T. with El and dressing as a ghost with a sheet and wanting to go home; I'm sure there are more.

When El would blindfold herself in front of the static TV, I kept getting Poltergeist vibes. 

 

13 hours ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

I am surprised that so many people are glad El is ending up with Hopper when her mother is cationic mess from the heartbreak of loosing her. I was hoping El would rejoin her family and they could start healing. The aunt seemed like a good hearted woman.

Her mother was a catatonic mess from extensive Electroconvulsive Therapy. I don't think Jane could have ever brought her back from that. And, while the aunt seemed nice enough, she was ready to turn Jane over. After all that had happened to her sister, why would she trust anyone with her niece??? I just found that house depressing as hell, and I don't think it would have been good for El. 

[sacrebleu]

Quote

I hope Billy has a larger purpose than looking like Jared Leto's greasy younger brother.

See, I thought his purpose was to show us what would happen if Jame "Buffalo Bill" Gumb were straight. 

I was so happy to see Steve's character growth,  and as cheesy as it was-- I loved the school dance finale.  To me though, Harbour was the MVP of this season. He makes every actor he's in scenes with better. (Ryder, Astin, the kids, even Paul Reiser at the end) . 

[nodorothyparker]

What a terrific ending to a mostly terrific season.  I can quibble along with the rest about how long it took to reunite Eleven with the main cast, but it still worked for me pretty much on all fronts.  One of the things that I really appreciated was how much of this season's story was simply about dealing with the fallout, both emotionally and all the loose ends, from last season in ways that felt organic rather than rush to introduce another big bad.  For as much monster hunting as these kids did, it also managed to feel like the show was giving them room to breathe a bit and come to terms with the fact that the Hawkins they inhabit is the kind of place where these things happen.  Sure, resolving Barb's story and the John Hughes style school dance at the end may have been a bit fan servicey but they both still made sense for the characters and their world.  I like that all of the adults this season were well meaning enough regardless of how effectual they might actually be rather than EVIL.

I know we've all written plenty of accolades for the truly amazing kid actors the show was lucky enough to find, but this finale left me feeling like not enough good things have been said about the relatively low-key performance David Harbour has been consistently putting in for two seasons.  His early in the episode scene with Finn Wolfhand where he mostly quietly let Mike rage at and against him was a thing of beauty in showing me with very few lines that he understood both why the kid was so angry and that he knew he had handled hiding Eleven from the other people who love her all wrong.  His later scenes with Millie Bobby Brown in the truck confirmed that.  He's really terrific acting off these kids and in showing us a man who knows he's faulty but is still trying his best to do right by everybody anyway.

The action throughout this episode was very tight in evoking the best of those '80s movies it borrows so much from.  Loved Steve and Dustin wrecking the Byers kitchen to make room for the dead demogorgon in the fridge "for science" and remarking that they didn't think Joyce would mind.  It's not a season finale if the Byers house isn't pretty much destroyed.   Eleven and Hopper were channeling Temple of Doom in their descent in the cage into the red hell while Joyce was having her own Exorcist moment trying to force that thing out of Will.  Hopefully Billy will have a larger more coherent purpose next season, but right now, all he's giving me is every douchebag teenager/older sibling from nearly every Stephen King story ever.

This has been such a fun bingewatch.

[absnow54]

I am surprised that so many people are glad El is ending up with Hopper when her mother is cationic mess from the heartbreak of loosing her. I was hoping El would rejoin her family and they could start healing. The aunt seemed like a good hearted woman.

I was surprised they kept her real mother on her birth certificate if the point was to hide her and keep her safe from those who might be looking for her. The aunt did seem nice, and I hope El/Jane is able to maintain a relationship with Momma, but I don't think we've reached the point of "And they lived happily ever after" yet. I'm betting El hasn't told Hopper that Matthew Modine might still be alive, which is another reason that El shouldn't be placed in the Ives home, because that would put all three of them in danger.

[Athena]

Aside from the fact that El herself wants to be in Hawkins with Mike and Hopper, I think her Aunt wouldn't really know how to raise or support El. She was well meaning and does seem to care for Jane, but she has no idea what Eleven is capable of or has been through. Hopper has been pretty clueless and is still trying to figure it out, but at least he knows the extent of her abilities and they have even been in battle together. I hope Eleven is able to have a relationship with her Aunt, but it makes complete sense that Eleven would opt to stay in Hawkins with her friends. They give her a lot of strength nor would they judge her. 

[Lady Calypso]

14 hours ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

I am surprised that so many people are glad El is ending up with Hopper when her mother is cationic mess from the heartbreak of loosing her. I was hoping El would rejoin her family and they could start healing. The aunt seemed like a good hearted woman. While Hopper is okay and I don't doubt that he loves El, he did keep the traumatized girl isolated for a whole year. That is a big deal that I feel is brushed aside. Also, what did he mean by her mother is gone when she asked about her? I would be more into the idea of El living with him if she didn't already have a family who could love and nurture her better than the well meaning guy who kept her hidden for a year. She can go to school at Hawkin's middle school and continue to see all her friends. 

Well, I think it's the fact that Eleven made the chose to go back to Hawkins, even after getting to meet her mother and aunt, as well as Kali. Plus, Eleven going back home isn't going to magically cure her mother from her catatonic state. Her mother's catatonic state was a direct result of the electro shock that she had to endure. I'm sure she'll go to visit her mother and aunt whenever possible, because they are still family, but she also considers Hopper and Mike her family too. Eleven's had many different choices in her path this season, but it's not surprising she's going back to the one that she feels safest at. She can still go into the Void to see and talk to her mother. It wasn't like her mother was able to communicate with words in the Void, anyway. 

As for Hopper keeping her isolated, it wasn't a healthy way to protect her and he made several major mistakes, but it was clear that he did it completely out of love for her. Just like Eleven's learning how to live in the real world, Hopper's learning how to be a dad again. I can't remember how old his daughter was when she died, but it's a learning process to him too. He thought he could only protect her by keeping her away from everyone. He's learned from that mistake and things will be different this go around. Clearly, Eleven's aunt felt like Hopper would be a great father to her, as I assume she would have had to give her consent so that Hopper could legally become her father. Eleven has so many people in Hawkins to be able to care for her. Her mother cannot care for any of her needs in any way, shape, or form, and her aunt seemed overwhelmed by Eleven's powers in the first place, hence why she was calling to get a hold of Hopper or Joyce. 

[benteen]

Yeah, I think Hopper is the right person to raise El and it's the best situation for her.  But I hope that El hasn't given up on her aunt though.  Her aunt is ill-prepared to take care of someone like Eleven but seems to be a good person who cares for her niece. 

[Sakura12]

El's mom is definitely in no shape to be able to take care of her. Hopper is the best choice. I do hope Aunt Becky comes to visit one in awhile. 

While I know a lot of people didn't like the El's sister episode. I wouldn't mind if Kali shows up in Hawkins. They could always use more help to fight the latest threat. Plus El would have to explain where she went since Hopper thinks Aunt Becky gave her the punk clothes. She'd have to let him know she found another girl that is like her.