S02.E03: Chapter Sixteen: The Watcher in the Woods

[The Crazed Spruce]

Quote

Frustrated by the lack of progress in his father's case, Archie takes matters into his own hands; Veronica is glad to introduce her father to her friends; Jughead befriends a Southside Serpent on his first day at his new school.

[WhosThatGirl]

Yay another episode!  This is the only show lately that I watch with anticipation and nerves and excitement all in one; I feel like I await every episode and dread every episode too. I can’t explain it, that probably made no sense.

 

Midget and Moose didn’t die! Which yay because that would be three dead people and that’s a heavy bottle count for three episodes in.

 

Poor Kevin can’t not be in criminal territory for his hookups.

 

Veronica and her priorities: “people are getting shot but The Bachelorette is on!” 

 

I don’t know how I feel about Toni Topez yet and look a lot of people are probably going to think I’m biased because I’m Bughead forever but that’s not it. I just don’t know how I feel about the character. Or any of the Southside High schoolers yet. Once again I’m throwing out that we may be getting too many new characters this season, like the show can barley handle the ones they have already.

 

But at least they’re finding a way to connect Southside High to Northside in some way. With the drugs and everything. 

 

And okay I’m confused because I know Archie feels like this is all connected to him, but.. is even that close to Moose or Midge? He’s getting real excited about this. It seems more random now I mean it’s probably not but still.. and I know later we got Alice’s fan mail with Faux Grundys glasses saying she was killed by him  and Fred’s Wally but again.. what do Midge or Moose have to do with Archie? I know moose plays football with Archie but still.. they aren’t super close and yes he didn’t kill them so maybe he was making a point? Just to scare people? But someone closer to Archie would have made a stronger point if you ask me? Even Reggie. 

 

Hermione sort of acted like herself from last season when telling Veronica to avoid the Archie dinner( which in the timeline it’s only been about a week since season ones finale so her 180 has really been a whiplash thing for me). 

 

Southside High is so cliche, I can’t take it. It really kind of is. 

 

Aw Jughead bringing back the Northside  high newspaper. Gives me feels.   Also someone tell me that actor who plays teacher and now editor in chief he was on a BtVs episode right? And probably a hundred other wb dramas as well they always recycled actors.

 

Cheryl is such a voice of reason, “Kevin wants validation, even if he needs to find it in in the woods. With a killer on the loose”.

 

Also Riverdale totally knew it was copying zodiac last episode and it was on purpose.

 

Also how is Sheriff Keller still the sheriff?  He’s kind of terrible.  

 

Hey look Polly! And she wants to leave.. bye! I mean.. what is she even still doing on this show? 

 

Eh.. Moose.. you weren’t nice to Kevin. I feel like I should have felt something for them in that moment in the hospital  but I didn’t.

 

Okay.. I’m varying between Veronica baiting her father and mother with the Archie dinner. Like she knows her dad is messed up and was playing him but really she wants her mom to admit that as well. Which.. okay. I don’t know what she hopes to gain from this.

 

Aw The Bughead scene in the red and black newspaper room adorable. And Betty already dislikes Toni, as I expected she probably would.

 

So Archie’s night watcher group or whatever the hell just drives around with weapons and then answers phone calls from people if they feel unsafe? Okay.

 

Um okay the scene with Betty and Cheryl and Kevin.. I mean I get it, he feels like he doesn’t have any options because he’s a gay teen in a small town.. but he does? It’s hard to sympathize there for me, sorry if that sounds mean. I just agree with Betty he has better safer options than going out into the woods and hooking up with a random person there. I don’t know.

Ugh, I hate that Jughead lied to Betty about how he got hurt. The cracks are starting to show and my heart is starting to hurt.

 

Oh Fred.. trying to parent Archie. Who’s running vigilant groups and having dinner with Hiram.

 

The Lodges.. eh. I’m already sick of it. That’s just me though.

 

Bye Polly! Like I said.. I don’t think

She’s going to be missed.

Also Hiram getting Archie drunk and telling him he needs to fight The Black Hood with fear like the Black Hood is doing with them.. uh.. how Hiram? The Black Hood is probably lugging at the red circle flyers and all that. 

 

Hey look Kevin making a good choice check and not getting in a randoms car! 

And now Jughead has to sit with the serpents. Ugh. And Kevin hates Betty because she didn’t want you to get hurt? Sorry not on his side.

Yeah I’m sorry Archie’s video.. okay? 

[Advance35]

Really surprised BOTH Moose and Midge survived.  Also interesting to see that it wasn't just hormones between Kevin and Moose, there seemed to be a genuine friendship there and it was really nice to see.

Hi Polly.  I forgot all about you.  And I was perfectly fine with that.

Hermione telling Veronica she doesn't have to be so "thirsty" CRACKED ME UP. LMAO.  

I liked the way Veronica was written this episode.  Selfish, Self-Centered and Self-Aggrandizing.  As far as Veronica Lodge is concerned, Riverdale, Archie Andrews, Hiram, Hermione, The Sun and the Earth all revolve around her.  She's just not malicious so for the most part she remains likable.  Though you can tell Jughead inwardly rolls his eyes when dealing with her.

The Lodge family dynamic continues to.......not devolve, but good lord.  Hermione and Veronica almost come across as RIVALS.  Though Veronica is WAY to cocky about her ability to maneuver Hiram, youth and ambition are nothing against experience and treachery.  And Hiram having a portrait of Veronica in his private study, yikes, the Lodge family dynamic is as macabre as the Blossoms.  Hiram, while seething malevolence, is much better at working his marks.  You could tell that he was trying to maneuver Archie on a path that will have a bad end.

[Last Time Lord]

Uh... I'm sure there's a reason literally everyone in the video was shirtless. Hell if I know what it is, but I'm sure one exists.

Holy shit, did they get me with the Kevin getting stabbed in the car fake out!

[bettername2come]

Okay, I'm gonna start with just how much I loved that moment between Archie and Ethel. I love when Archie's a good person.

Archie: Did you get a look at the guy?

Ethel: No, I'm sorry.

Archie: *talking over her* Are you okay? Don't be sorry. *hug*

 

I also love that Fake Zodiac called Grundy a child predator, although I don't think the letters are from the real killer.

 

I was kind of hoping Kevin was getting lightly stabbed after making terrible choices, but good on him for not getting in a random guy's car. Pretty sure that person's going to be relevant later. 

 

Hey, chick from My Babysitter's a Vampire. I'm waiting for you to bring supernatural shenanigans.

[Dee]

That final scene was cringeworthy. It looked like a BelAmi video. KJ Apa has improved as an actor, but he couldn't sell that dreck.

I could watch Hermione taunting Veronica all day.

Toni is adorable.

Sierra and Weatherbee continue to be window dressing.

Reggie remains on permanent sidekick duty.

Cheryl is useless. Amusing, with great hair, but still useless.

Also useless? Any Coopers, not named Alice or Betty.

Jughead and Betty need to be pushed into the sea.

Kevin slamming Betty was great. His Brokeback-esque self-pity party? Not so much.

Edited October 26, 2017 by Dee

[Last Time Lord]

1 minute ago, bettername2come said:

I was kind of hoping Kevin was getting lightly stabbed after making terrible choices, but good on him for not getting in a random guy's car. Pretty sure that person's going to be relevant later.

1

I was practically yelling at the TVs Five-year-olds are told not to get into the cars of strangers they don't know.

Like I said, they got me with that fake out.

[WhosThatGirl]

I kind of hoped Kevin got stabbed too, also don’t get why he’s mad at Betty. I really didn’t like his pity me speech. 

[SeanC]

Vanessa Morgan auditioned for Josie originally and became best friends with Madelaine Petsch in the process, so it's great for the two of them that she ended up on the show roundaboutly (particularly for Morgan, of course, since she gets paid now).  They're clearly at least teasing the idea that she'll be a rival for Jughead, but since comics Toni is bisexual, it would be more unexpected if she was interested in Betty.

For all that Kevin talks about a lack of options in Riverdale, the town appears to have a thriving gay cruising scene.

Everything to do with the Red Circle is kind of goofy, though I expect that's deliberate, from the comic book inspiration to the shirtless guys video at the end, but this episode did a lot more to sell me on Archie's drive to do something constructive.  I also like that rather than making the existence of the organization some big secret the football team is trying to keep, they just tell everybody about it.

New Reggie is a keeper.  It's probably a bit unfair to compare with Old Reggie, whose screentime was limited by actor availability, but Melton's version feels more like the comics Reggie to me.

With so many characters, I'm guessing the writers wanted to shuffle Polly offscreen for the time being while this plot takes centre stage; she'll be back, I'm sure, between the babies' birth and whatever drama will eventually happen with the lost Cooper sibling they teased at the end of Season 1.

[Lady Calypso]

I continue to be impressed with Archie's story. It's not an original story for a main character to go dark for a while, but they're handling it pretty well. Though how nobody is even remotely concerned about Archie's dark path is pretty sad. 

Though, yeah, that video with the Red Circle was pretty odd. Fred seems very unconcerned with everything. I'm not sure whether they're heading to some PTSD of his own, or if they simply don't know what to do with him for his recovery.

I'm glad Kevin got to ream Betty out, because she can be stuck in her own head, but what Kevin is doing is dangerous and stupid. Also, his reasons for getting mad at her were very much out of left field. I just simply didn't understand Kevin's subplot here. 

I'm glad Moose and Midge are alive, only because we only met Midge and we barely had Moose last season. I will say that Moose is pretty but the actor isn't good and he has no chemistry with Kevin. I do like their friendship, though. 

Toni's....alright, I guess. I'm a fan of the actress, but they're going to need to give me more with her that's not just a potential third of a love triangle. Hopefully, they go another route with her. I do like Bughead so I was glad to get more of them. 

[Jeddah]

Oh, Kevin. You’d think after his hookup with Moose ended with them finding Jason’s body that he’d stop hooking up in the woods or “night jogging.” I liked his conversation with Moose in the hospital. I was glad his dad ended up being more concerned than angry. Betty was being patronizing towards him, even if she had good reason to be.

”I self identify as a loner.” That’s the truest thing Jughead has ever said. Has the show forgotten that Jughead went to Southside High last season? We saw him entertaining everybody at lunch! Also, how wasn’t he already zoned for Southside?

Archie and the Red Circle was hilarious. The Sheriff disapproves for a half second, and then just lets it go. And Ethel called Archie instead of 911. Sure, let the high schoolers take care of everything!

I am not liking anything about Hiram. Other characters are evil, but still entertaining. Hiram doesn’t even have that.

[catrice2]

What happened to Mark C's face?  I am so distracted by his nose that I can't evaluate his acting or anything else. 

[AdorkableSars]

1 hour ago, Last Time Lord said:

Uh... I'm sure there's a reason literally everyone in the video was shirtless. Hell if I know what it is, but I'm sure one exists.

It's the CW...they hadn't filled their "shirtless bod" quota for the episode yet, and they realized it when filming the final scene. So they had the dudes strip it on down.

49 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Toni's....alright, I guess. I'm a fan of the actress, but they're going to need to give me more with her that's not just a potential third of a love triangle. Hopefully, they go another route with her. I do like Bughead so I was glad to get more of them. 

I liked Toni. She was feisty and funny, and I'm glad that it seems Jughead has an ally/protector at Southside High. But I too am dreading a potential love triangle. Hopefully they go somewhere else with the character. I really adore Betty & Jughead together, and it seems they'll have enough drama without adding a love triangle into the mix.

19 minutes ago, Jeddah said:

Oh, Kevin. You’d think after his hookup with Moose ended with them finding Jason’s body that he’d stop hooking up in the woods or “night jogging.” I liked his conversation with Moose in the hospital. I was glad his dad ended up being more concerned than angry. Betty was being patronizing towards him, even if she had good reason to be.

”I self identify as a loner.” That’s the truest thing Jughead has ever said. Has the show forgotten that Jughead went to Southside High last season? We saw him entertaining everybody at lunch! Also, how wasn’t he already zoned for Southside?

Archie and the Red Circle was hilarious. The Sheriff disapproves for a half second, and then just lets it go. And Ethel called Archie instead of 911. Sure, let the high schoolers take care of everything!

I am not liking anything about Hiram. Other characters are evil, but still entertaining. Hiram doesn’t even have that.

Sheriff Keller and Kevin have a really sweet relationship. Also, I'm not sure what did a bigger 180 since last season - Hermoine Lodge or Jughead @ Southside High. Like you said, last season showed him fitting right in at the school. But I guess what wouldn't be fitting for the DRAMA. Also agreeing about Hiram. I don't see anything redeeming about his character at this point. Even his love for his daughter seems so twisted and conniving. Oh wait...he is super eye candy. I guess that's redeeming. (FP is still the hottest Daddy though. Ew. I hate that I said that. Sorry...blame the wine I'm drinking, please?)

Not gonna lie, I cougared over badass Archie holding a gun as some dude scream sang "I'M A BAD MAN" at me. then that final scene with the video happened, and this cougar got declawed. 

Loved Jughead reviving the "Red and Black". He looked so happy when he got the go ahead. But then Jughead can never stay happy, and it turned into him getting his ass kicked. And now it's seeming he'll have no choice but to become a Serpent.

Overall, a solid episode. Setting up a lot of potential storylines for the season, and it's gonna be good, I think!

Edited October 26, 2017 by AdorkableSars

[catrice2]

I think Toni will end up with someone unexpected, like Cheryl or Reggie.   Speaking of Reggie, I think the new actor is doing a good job.  Since they are not following the comics and having Reggie as Veronica's backup, I can't see him with Cheryl, and if Midge is with Moose, that leaves him with Toni, possibly, or Josie or a Pussycat.  It's been a while, but wasn't Ethel crazy about Jughead?   I found the video cringeworthy, and the Lodge family interactions and dynamic as extremely boring. 

[bmoore4026]

Well, The Red Circle is gayer than Kevin, I see.

It almost seemed like they were making Daddy Lodge look like The Black Hood.  My guess is it's actually Chris Bruno.  The reason I say this is, if Mark Consuelos is around, Chris Bruno is not far behind.

Case in point:

Edited October 26, 2017 by bmoore4026
Something occured to me.

[VCRTracking]

Sheriff Keller may be a horrible law enforcement officer but he's a great dad. Kevin broke my heart this week.

Veronica's parents this episode, whew! Her mom with that "Poor little princess..." line and her dad encouraging Archie's new group of "concerned citizens" to go ISIS!

I don't dislike Toni but I hope she doesn't come between Betty and Jughead.

[Cthulhudrew]

I feel like there was a scene that got cut with Archie and Weatherbee discussing the Red Circle (either before or after Archie's run-in with Sheriff Keller). If so- even if not- that was definitely a missed opportunity to do something with a character that has been mostly non-existent in this show.

[thuganomics85]

Surprised both Moose and Midge survived.  Either this hooded guy really sucks at the whole killing thing or he wants everyone to only be injured and not dead.  Then again, Fred was apparently close to death, so I don't what exactly he is planning here.  Well, I guess there this whole "after sinners" claim, but I think there is more to it.  Also, what did Ethel (hey again, Shannon Purser!  Perfect time to remind me that Stranger Things is coming back in about 24 hours!) do that could fit that category, assuming he was the one that was stalking her?

I love that Southside High is pretty much just prison, apparently.  Drugs, gangs, and trying not to get beat-up or shanked (I really wouldn't be surprised if that happens!) in the hallways.  I knew Jughead's attempt to remain neutral wasn't going to work.  Intrigued by the Toni character and I like the character.  But was that guy's name really Sweet Pea?  I guess that really isn't any weirder then Moose or Jughead, to be fair.

The Lodges are straight-up nuts!  I love Heromine mocking Veronica when Hiram only allowed Archie to go to his study, because it was just hilarious seeing a mother acting that petty and childish towards her daughter.  And, of course, Hiram did the whole "scary father" act on Archie, but his main goal seems to be trying some kind of bizarre mentorship with him, because it looks like he needs Archie to go all vigilante for some reason?  What are you up to, Hiram?!  And now Veronica herself wants to take a more "active" role in the business.  This should be fun!

Hi, Polly!  Bye, Polly!  Naturally, Alice would still print that story despite her daughter's protests.

I've definitely warmed up to New Reggie now.  I feel like the actor has settled in.

Not enough Cheryl stirring the pot, but I enjoyed the moments we got.

I understand why Kevin feels like he doesn't have many options, but going out into the woods for random hook-ups while a crazy man is out and about, is risky as hell, and I don't blame Betty for being concerned, even if she really could have worked on her approach better.  I did like Keller being supportive.  He may suck as a sheriff, but he's at least trying to be a decent dad.  Just because I wouldn't even trust him to find a missing dog doesn't mean he's a bad guy!

Best ending ever!  That video had me in stitches. I guess Archie was going for threatening, but those randomly shirtless red-hood guys just made it look like they were getting ready to kick off the weirdest porno ever.  Never change, Archie!  You may be a goof, but you just keep being you, buddy!

[Snookums]

Quote

He’s getting real excited about this. It seems more random now I mean it’s probably not but still..

When the hell was the last time Archie slept? At all? No wonder he's on the verge of a friggin' meltdown--between the patrolling and "sure, I'll please my girlfriend by AGREEING TO GUARD THE ENTIRE TOWN, GF'S FATHER WHOM I LITERALLY MET FIVE MINUTES AGO" and the bizarre willingness of every single adult in Riverdale to allow a sixteen year old boy to take on a totally illegal responsibility that results in a vigilante group posting videos on the net taunting a crazy killer, I'm surprised he's not flapping his arms up and down and insisting he's The Ostrich of Justice or something.  Seriously, what is in the water in this place? Does it all run through the 'maple syrup' *wink wink nudge nudge* factory or what? 

Also, I think the Black Hood may have given away more than he meant to when he said he was shooting "sinners" and claimed Fred was an adulterer. Um, no, he's not; he and his wife have been long divorced and he and Hermione, like, smooched a couple of times. That's it. If anybody in that duo was the adulterer, that is, cheating on a spouse, it's Hermione. That plus Hiram's persistence in the  creation of The Littlest Vigilante Gang makes me think he's the one behind all this, for God only knows what bizarre reason. 

(Also, is there nobody around who can point out to decompensating Archie that since the Hood has apparently declared his intent and it's got nothing to do with Archie personally, or even the school, he needs to calm down and take a nap before he explodes? Like, say the mayor or the principal? Or the sheriff, who is a very good dad but absolutely terrible law enforcement officer?) 

Cheryl didn't have much to do but destroy Betty and Kevin's friendship this week (and considering last week I don't blame her that much) but honestly, Kevin: this whole "Whaaaaa you can do anything and have nice things but I can only be a rent boy in the park for rando guys who don't mind hooking up with the underage son of the sheriff" thing is ridiculous. I mean, I get the self-pity, we've all thrown that party at some time or other, and in season One he did point out that he's basically the only kid out in his school, which cannot be fun. And Cheryl was on the nose about the whole validation thing.

BUT. Although they tried to paint this as some personal crisis (like when he told Moose he knew it was dangerous but "it's like I don't even care") and the actor does a good job, he's trying to sell himself as both forgetful (he had a relationship with Joquin! First kiss and all!) and total idiot, which I am not buying because it is simply not true at all. Yes, it's not the first time a teenager did something insanely stupid and dangerous for no good reason at all, but the show is trying to sell us on this group being the new Bloodhound Gang on one hand and some kind of teen indie film on the other, and the two don't mesh. Betty was completely right in doing everything she could to save him. During the sequence where he gets imagine-stabbed I yelled "She tried to tell you! You wouldn't listen!" Gah!

Hi, Polly! Bye, Polly! I don't blame her for wanting to get the hell outta Dodge, and that scene where the Coopers all have the confrontation and Betty gives Alice that hysterical "go ahead and blame THIS on me too, MOTHER" look was terrific. As was the bit where Polly's leaving and Betty asks if she doesn't want to say goodbye, she's sure Mom's sorry. And Polly just says "she always says she's sorry until the next thing." Yep. Ride off into the Sanity Sunset with Nana Rose, Polly. Don't look back.

Edited October 26, 2017 by Snookums

[paulvdb]

1 hour ago, thuganomics85 said:

And, of course, Hiram did the whole "scary father" act on Archie, but his main goal seems to be trying some kind of bizarre mentorship with him, because it looks like he needs Archie to go all vigilante for some reason?

I thought Hiram just didn't like Archie dating his daughter so he's setting him up to do something reckless and stupid that will get Archie killed. Of course Archie is one of the main characters which means that there's no chance that that plan will succeed.

[PeekaBoo]

Star of the show : The fog!!

Man, they are really are getting darker aren't they??!?!

I'm glad that Moose and Midge made it, just couldn't see them killing off someone that's part of the comics...

The whole KEvin thing, I don't know... I feel sorry for the guy,  with his predicament and all but he should still have some common sense. Is he that down/heartbroken that he's willing to stupidly risk his life?? Betty tried to do what she could to help him, to save him but he probably wasn't willing to listen to it there and then... And annoying Cheryl butting in and splitting the two (hopefully she gets a better story than meddling into everyone's relationship).... I got scared when Kevin got "stabbed", I was like "no, they couldn't", relieved it was only a dream or wheatever... Gotta admit The Kellers seem to have a great relationship and I was relieved that the sheriff wasn't that angry towards Kevin (but then again, what can he do besides giving advice?). I'm quite happy the show gave KEvin a good storyline, with that I mean not just being the gayfriend with all the quirky snaps and comments, like to hear about his struggles about being the "only gay guy" in town and the whole gaycruising thing...

With the riff between kevin and Betty, who tried to do good, I think Betty is going darker for each day... You could notice her little struggles last episode...

Introducing Toni -- Hard to tell whether she's likeable after one episode... She seems alright, a reasonable Serpent... So far I like her! I don't see her enterfering with bughead (I think we would have seen some "sparks" already had there been some in these soapy drama worlds), but I think misunderstandings or interruptions or late nights "working at the newspaper" might bring a bit of tension and assumptions...

Man, I swore at the beginning of the show I could see Archie going totally Bruce Wayne, cape crusader... He's going serious with this and as cheesy as the rest of the storyline is, its kinda cool... ITs taking off the edge of the whole music-thing he has/had going on. I'm kinda liking it although I could not help but just laugh at the ending with the whole Red Circle thing... I mean come on, hello Sherif! Hello Fred?! Stop him! Someone please stop him and put some sense into him!?!?!?!

The lodges?!!? OMG ! ONe freaky family! I don't know who's most evil nowadays?!! They all seem to be screwing each other while wearing happy smiles... And Hiram, encouraging Archie to go cape crusader on the town?!! The hell!! He is so oozing evil that it makes no sense... My theory (if I take the comics into consideration) is he is going to try to create (indirectly mind you) a lot of chaos in Riverdale, revelling into this North/SouthSide rivalry and the black hood murderer and then he'll come out of no where and run for mayor or something like that, blaming McCoy and the Sherif for their lack of doing anything productive (or so it seems). He is going to step up somehow and not for the good, is he behind the murders? God I hope he isn't THAT evil.... And Hermione, I'm so not certain she's that evil at heart, that maybe she's just trying to protect herself and veronica to an extent.

I was surprised Jughead actually bothered showing up at the Lodges and that he was civil, does he not know what FP + Hiram were up to? probably all the bad shit he made FP do... Didn't make sense to me but...

Poor jughead!! I felt sorry for him but goddamn it think about it, boy! Did he really think he could have stayed hidden in SSHS and come out unscathed?!!? Does he not know that he's going in the worst high school in the entire US lol?!?!? I just don't get that type of school though, you'd think there was a freaking wall built between the North Side and the South Side? Is there some sort of tunnel in that town that leads the south side to some underprivileged place in NYC/LA or whatever...  

And Bughead -- You know, I think they are going to be -that- couple- that you see on all those tv shows, the ones that should really be together and you see the tension and the innuendos but then they just get interrupted all the freaking time and then something happens (tteribble secret, cheating, old boyfriend or girlfdriend shows up) and in the end they never happen... REally show!!! Work a different angle than that, it really is annoygin for us bughead fans!!!

Sad to see Polly go but what more could they do with her character... And now that CHic is coming, Alice will have the best opportunity to transfer her mothery-feelings towards Chic since Polly's gone...

And what is it with all these 180s??? Where are the "friends" that jughead had made last season? Did they just disappear?

I'm surprised they're already going for a NorthSide vs SouthSide thing next week. Didn't think they'd go about it so quickly!! probably has to do with jingle jangle... Not looking forward to it...

Great episode though...

Edited October 26, 2017 by PeekaBoo
adding some new POVs instead of writing a new thread...

[Bugs Meany]

You’d expect Hiram to have a talk with Archie over a glass of scotch. Straight rum?

The Betty-Kevin argument was so contrived. Kevin seemed on the verge of calling her homophobic, which she clearly isn’t. She just doesn’t want him to cruise in the woods when there’s a killer on the loose.

I’m fine with ”jingle-jangle” as a fake drug name. Is it any sillier than bath salts or angel dust?

I didn’t buy Toni making an American History X reference. The thirtysomething writers should run these lines by an actual teenager.

Edited October 26, 2017 by Bugs Meany

[Mr. Sparkle]

8 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

Sheriff Keller may be a horrible law enforcement officer but he's a great dad. Kevin broke my heart this week.

I was thinking the Dad was drunk and was going to start beating Kevin. I was very glad to see the exact opposite happened. Very touching scene. 

[Jeddah]

26 minutes ago, Bugs Meany said:

 

I didn’t buy Toni making an American History X reference. The thirtysomething writers should run these lines by an actual teenager.

And a Beetlejuice reference! These kids are supposed to have been born around 2001.

[VCRTracking]

The video was perfect because it's exactly what a bunch of dumb teenage boys would think would be intimidating and scary. Jocks especially are completely unaware how their vanity could look SUPER homoerotic(see Rocky III, Top Gun).

[Jeddah]

2 hours ago, Superclam said:

I was thinking the Dad was drunk and was going to start beating Kevin. I was very glad to see the exact opposite happened. Very touching scene. 

They faked me out too. Kevin looked pretty terrified at first, so I was really worried for him. But I suppose even a  kid with good parents would be scared if their parents found out a secret of that magnitude. I agree that it ended up being a very moving scene.

I did wonder why the Sheriff didn’t immediately go look for Kevin after talking to Betty. Mrs. Cooper would have marched down there right away, which is funny because that’s exactly what Betty did.

[Chick2Chic]

Archie and Veronica have no chemistry this season. I think their chemistry died in S1 somewhere around ep 6. Watching them together is like paint drying for me. They work well in scenes with others but together? ZZzzz. I'm enjoying the quietly sinister Hiram, though.  

I like Toni so far but not looking forward to a Toni/Jughead/Betty triangle solely due to rabid Bughead shippers since I know the Toni actress already had some internet drama related to that possibility a couple of months ago. 

Kevin's story is alright so far. I liked it in theory but execution was a bit hmm. I get why Betty narc'd on him and also why Kevin is pissed at her about it.

I am still liking new Reggie, plus he is excellent eye candy. 

Ok ep. The pacing and screentime of of the cast still seems very uneven.  I remain cynical toward the showrunner about his promises to fix that. 

Edited October 26, 2017 by Chick2Chic
additioooon.... addition!

[funandfitpt]

Best line of the night from Polly talking about sinners "I'm an unwed mother carrying my cousin's babies".

[Bugs Meany]

2 hours ago, Superclam said:

I was thinking the Dad was drunk and was going to start beating Kevin. I was very glad to see the exact opposite happened. Very touching scene. 

There was a scene early in season 1 where we saw that Kevin’s dad was fine with his being gay. I was relieved they didn’t make his dad a stereotype.

[HunterHunted]

17 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Veronica and her priorities: “people are getting shot but The Bachelorette is on!” 

It was the Matchelorette. I love the weird generic equivalents in the Archie universe. American History X exists. Beetlejuice exists, but The Bachelor and Bachelorette are the Matchelor and Matchelorette.

[Dee]

3 hours ago, Jeddah said:

 But I suppose even a  kid with good parents would be scared if their parents found out a secret of that magnitude.

Sheriff Keller already knew about Kevin's cruising. He warned him about it last season.

[methodwriter85]

5 hours ago, Jeddah said:

And a Beetlejuice reference! These kids are supposed to have been born around 2001.

I'm willing to ignore that because this universe seems to be a place where all styles, pop culture references, and time eras from the mid-20th century to now kind of just mix together. They've been pretty consistent about it since the pilot.

3 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

The video was perfect because it's exactly what a bunch of dumb teenage boys would think would be intimidating and scary. Jocks especially are completely unaware how their vanity could look SUPER homoerotic(see Rocky III, Top Gun).

Yeah. That worked for me on that level. They were being shirtless to show off how tough and strong and "I'll kick your ass" they are.

That this can totally be used as wank material for older gay men is totally irrelevant.

Edited October 26, 2017 by methodwriter85

[Jeddah]

10 minutes ago, Dee said:

Sheriff Keller already knew about Kevin's cruising. He warned him about it last season.

I didn’t interpret his comments last season to mean he knew what Kevin was up to, but that he meant it in a general, parental “Don’t go looking for trouble” sort of way. If he had known already, there would have been no reason for Betty to tell him in this episode. When he said there are things they don’t talk about, I thought it implied that he may have suspected it but hadn’t known for sure. The whole scene wouldn’t work for me if he already knew, but that’s just my take on it.

[Dee]

Quote

I didn’t interpret his comments last season to mean he knew what Kevin was up to, but that he meant it in a general, parental “Don’t go looking for trouble” sort of way.

He specifically tells Kevin not to go cruising guys, specifically because, 'they both know what goes on in those woods.'

Quote

If he had known already, there would have been no reason for Betty to tell him in this episode.

Not necessarily. Him knowing, however obliquely, doesn't mean he approved.

Edited October 26, 2017 by Dee

[Jeddah]

7 minutes ago, Dee said:

He specifically tells Kevin not to go cruising guys, specifically because, 'they both know what goes on in those woods.'

I still don’t think that means he knew what Kevin was doing. Parents tell their kids all the time not to do drugs, drink and drive, have sex, skip class, etc. That doesn’t mean they know that their kid is doing those things. Sheriff Keller knew Kevin and Moose had been in the woods together when they found Jason’s body. He could have been referring to that. Knowing his kid was out in the woods after a dance with someone he goes to high school with is a lot different than knowing his teenage kid is hooking up with strangers in the woods. 

I really liked the scene last night, and like I said, that scene doesn’t make sense to me if Sheriff Keller already knew. I know you don’t agree. That’s just how I interpret it.

[Enginerd]

1 hour ago, Jeddah said:

I didn’t interpret his comments last season to mean he knew what Kevin was up to, but that he meant it in a general, parental “Don’t go looking for trouble” sort of way. If he had known already, there would have been no reason for Betty to tell him in this episode. When he said there are things they don’t talk about, I thought it implied that he may have suspected it but hadn’t known for sure. The whole scene wouldn’t work for me if he already knew, but that’s just my take on it.

He knew in season 1 that Kevin cruised in the woods, and warned him against it even then. He probably didn't know that he was STILL doing it despite there being a killer with numerous victims roaming around. Sheriff Keller probably thought Kevin was smart enough to stay safer!

Get a grip, Kevin...on yourself, in the security of your own home. I feel bad about his limited range of dating options, but Joaquin just left recently and he's hardly the first or last person to have a dry spell. I think he'll survive awhile without any hookups. Plus, he's intimated that although he's the only out gay guy at school, there are multiple in the closet in town that he knows about, other than Moose. If he's previously found them by cruising, why not arrange discreet hookups with some of the same guys in a safer setting?

[Miss Dee]

I just viewed it as Keller knew Kevin was gay but didn't talk to him about relationships and growing up the way he might have done if Kevin was straight - therfore he was shocked to find out Kevin was randomly hooking up with strangers after lecturing him in a general way about how dangerous that was. I think he was acknowledging not getting specific and in depth with Kevin about sex was a mistake on his part as a parent and something he intended to correct ASAP.

In any case, Kev and Sheriff Keller just about broke me. God, if only all gay kids had a parent that loving and accepting in their corner.

Edited October 26, 2017 by Miss Dee

[Dee]

7 minutes ago, Jeddah said:

Sheriff Keller knew Kevin and Moose had been in the woods together when they found Jason’s body. He could have been referring to that.

Then why wouldn't he just tell Kevin to be careful...with a murderer on the loose, instead of making a specific reference to 'what happens in the woods,' since, other than Jason's death, nothing bad occurred in Riverdale's woods.

Quote

I said, that scene doesn’t make sense to me if Sheriff Keller already knew.

How doesn't it make sense? Sheriff Keller knowing about, and dealing with, Kevin's behavior is two separate issues.

For instance, Hermione knowing Hiram is/was shady, doesn't mean she truly understands the lengths he'd stoop to, to achieve his goals.

[PeekaBoo]

17 minutes ago, Miss Dee said:

I just viewed it as Keller knew Kevin was gay but didn't talk to him about relationships and growing up the way he might have done if Kevin was straight - therfore he was shocked to find out Kevin was randomly hooking up with strangers after lecturing him in a general way about how dangerous that was. I think he was acknowledging not getting specific and in depth with Kevin about sex was a mistake on his part as a parent and something he intended to correct ASAP.

In any case, Kev and Sheriff Keller just about broke me. God, if only all gay kids had a parent that loving and accepting in their corner.

 I know! Melts your heart doesn't it!! He's taken over the "greatest parent" in riverdale right now!

Sherif Keller gets a straight A in this episode.... Now if only he was a good sheriff!

[lorbeer]

2 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

It was the Matchelorette. I love the weird generic equivalents in the Archie universe. American History X exists. Beetlejuice exists, but The Bachelor and Bachelorette are the Matchelor and Matchelorette.

Coulld you tell me what Matchelor and Matchelorette means? English is not my first language so I'm not quite sure how to translate it.

 

I must say I like mama Cooper. This particular episode maybe wasn't her best but generally her character is interesting and a bit amusing ;)

[HunterHunted]

7 hours ago, Jeddah said:

And a Beetlejuice reference! These kids are supposed to have been born around 2001.

Eh, Beetlejuice doesn't bother me too much. It's a very memorable and stylized movie directed by Tim Burton who has continued to direct during the aughts. I can believe that kids of that age might have seen it. Furthermore, Hocus Pocus from 1993 is a cult classic among that age group.

2 minutes ago, lorbeer said:

Coulld you tell me what Matchelor and Matchelorette means? English is not my first language so I'm not quite sure how to translate it.

They don't mean anything. Neither are English words. It's a joke based on the fact that "batch" and "match" rhyme and that The Bachelor and The Bachelorette are dating/match-making shows.

[lorbeer]

Just now, HunterHunted said:

They don't mean anything. Neither are English words. It's a joke based on the fact that "batch" and "match" rhyme and that The Bachelor and The Bachelorette are dating/match-making shows.

So I thought. Thanks! :)

[Jeddah]

1 hour ago, HunterHunted said:

Eh, Beetlejuice doesn't bother me too much. It's a very memorable and stylized movie directed by Tim Burton who has continued to direct during the aughts. I can believe that kids of that age might have seen it. Furthermore, Hocus Pocus from 1993 is a cult classic among that age group.

If she was going with 80’s Winona Ryder references, I wish she had said Heathers! Her name was Veronica because of the Archie comics. That would have been funnier.

[HunterHunted]

Just now, Jeddah said:

If she was going with 80’s Winona Ryder references, I wish she had said Heathers! Her name was Veronica because of the Archie comics. That would have been funnier.

So much better!!!!

[ruby24]

I like the new Reggie. I can buy into him and Archie, although him only having a relationship with Archie is something that I hope changes. He really should be part of the core four (which should be a core five). I could easily see a rivalry with Archie over Veronica in the future.

I was getting onboard with Archie and Veronica last season, but I agree with those who say they have pretty much no chemistry this year. Too bad. Still think Betty and Jughead are adorable and work really well together (maybe it's the real life factor that's helping them out there). 

[tennisgurl]

Hiram might be sketchy as all get out, but he is a serious DILF. He might even be more of a DILF than FP Jones. That is one smooth bastard. The Lodges truly are from Riverdale, they're just as crazy as every other family! You know things are bad when the Coopers are actually coming off as somewhat well adjusted. 

I would totally watch an episode narrated by Cheryl, or just have her randomly pop into peoples story lines to drop truth bombs, stir up drama, then move along. When she went on got Betty and they went after Kevin, she was on the verg of pulling out the popcorn while Kevin and Betty were having this big emotional argument. 

Speaking of, while Betty could have been less condescending, she wasn't wrong about Kevin cruising in the woods being dangerous, even without a crazed serial killer running around the woods. While his rant about how his dating prospects suck might be true, I think a bigger issue is a lack of self esteem. He shouldn't be the first teenager with low self worth who seeks validation with others, even if its not good for them. I do think Betty meant well (both in that its dangerous, and that he deserves better than hook up in the park) but she could have gone about it better. That being said, I am pretty thrilled that Kevin got a decent subplot that went beyond being everyone's Sassy Gay Friend. I also liked the scene between him and Moose, and would like to see where it goes. 

Fred, you might want to check in with your son. While your recovering, Archie went and formed a teenage vigilante militia cult. Might want to check in on that. I am really questioning why everyone in town seems to be alright with letting a 16 year old and his buddies run around chasing an armed murderer. And making weirdly homoerotic threat videos aimed towards him! I laughed so hard at what looked like the start of a low rent gay porn, but I also loved it. It definitely seemed like something a bunch of teenage boys would think looked "tough" or something. Also, are people really calling Archie and his militia instead of the cops? Of course, we know how well cops do in this town, so maybe its not a bad call...

I do actually really like the plot for Archie, even if its rather sad to see him losing it so quickly. KJ is much better with better and more interesting material. I liked Archie alright last season (and thought AJ was fine), but his angst about girls and his music seemed so...average compared to the constant drama and batshit craziness of the rest of the show. It was almost like he was in a totally different program. Now, he is neck deep in the crazy and I am digging it. 

I got definite feels between Kevin and Sheriff Keller. The sheriff might suck as a cop, but he is an excellent parent. 

[mariekristen]

On 10/25/2017 at 9:09 PM, Dee said:

I could watch Hermione taunting Veronica all day.

I find it so uncomfortable! Especially that one at dinner talking about the rum room. I can't get a read on what Hermione's agenda is - who's side is she on? I feel like she can't be on her own side and have her own agenda because she's not really a major character, but the whole 'trying to protect Veronica' scene vs the 'taunting' scenes leave me wondering if she has some big plot twist lying ahead. 

[mariekristen]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

I would totally watch an episode narrated by Cheryl, or just have her randomly pop into peoples story lines to drop truth bombs, stir up drama, then move along. When she went on got Betty and they went after Kevin, she was on the verg of pulling out the popcorn while Kevin and Betty were having this big emotional argument. 

Yes!! I think this would be so good. Like a gossip-girl style type of narration, just filled with Cheryl's cheesy lines. Especially because she's gotten little to no airtime yet, just those scenes where she's watching... and waiting.

Quote

And making weirdly homoerotic threat videos aimed towards him! 

Hiram was loving it though!

[tennisgurl]

Also, I knew Jugheads new school was rough, but its apparently basically Lord of the Flies mixed with Dangerous Minds. I mean, kids just straight up doing drugs in the hallway! Someone call a tough but fair inspirational teacher stat! 

[Enginerd]

The cut from Archie's intimidation video (which really works better as an ab workout, from laughing so hard) to smirking Hiram, combined with lots of my scrutinizing Hiram's face throughout the episode, is making me think that Hiram plus bright green contact lenses is the culprit. Especially with the way he's taunting and baiting Archie. But to what end? Driving down property values to buy up  cheaply? How would he then drive values back up to make money? Maybe he wants to turn the whole town into a jingle jangle factory?

 

I also can't tell whether Hermione is really on Hiram's side or if she is compliant because she is afraid of him. She seemed happy enough working as a waitress. Lighter and more carefree than she has been since the bag of money and instructions arrived. Maybe she liked having her husband out of their lives. On the other hand, maybe the whole waitress gig was an act to make the authorities think they'd gotten everything, and she knew all along she wouldn't have to keep doing it so it was just a game.

Everyone in Riverdale seems to think the Southside students are losers, but I for one commend those thirty-year-Olds for not giving up on completing high school! Most people who hadn't graduated would have dropped out before they had as much facial hair as some of those "kids" in the cafeteria.