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S04.E05: A Dark Knight: The Blade's Path

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Nygma comes face-to-face with Butch Gilzean, but he is not who he used to be. In an attempt to regain power and identity, Nygma decides to put his former partner's skills to the test. Meanwhile, Sofia Falcone takes action to protect her own life by appealing to Penguin's vulnerable side. With the power of the dagger in his possession, Bruce surprises those around him with his bold actions.

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Apparently the only people who stay dead in Gotham are Bruce’s  parents.  

First Barbara and now Zombie Butch who is hooking up with Nygma.  That is a pairing that is going to be all kinds of entertaining.  I am also quite fascinated my Sophia and Penguin.  Is she playing him or not?  Of course she is but to what extent?

Also kind of dark turn Bruce is taking.

Hi Lee!

Edited by Chaos Theory · Reason: It’s like English is not my first (and only) language
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Oh Bruce. It can't be that easy getting rid of Ra's. He likely will be back. I loved Alfred and James teaming up to save Bruce. Alfred went packing.

Welcome back, Butch. He and Ed are pretty entertaining.

Lee, Barbara, and now Sophia, Jim, you sure know how to pick'em.

Who knew Oswalt would be so easy? Guess, he is lonely.

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b-sound.jpg

It was filler. Obvious filler...but it did hit the right notes.

Sofia was great, as always, playing Penguin like a fiddle. The good part about it is that Penguin actually appears to understand that Sofia is or at least could manipulate him...and Sofia still continues to play him. Wonderfully done.

Solomon Grundy...A+ from me. Drew Powell played him pretty straight but it worked.

Didn't see Bruce kill Ra's al-Ghul (or rather "kill"...I sense he'll be back). Kind of conflicted about it but, at the same time, it could work as a teachable moment- Ra's pushed Bruce to kill him, and Bruce needs to be smarter than that.

The Bullock Meter:

number-3-filled-128.png

OK...so he only had one scene...but, I figure it was logistics, and Donal Logue still shined. Jim could get angry at Harvey all he wants, but Harvey's right- it's his job to keep the station running, and Jim ought to realize he can't beat Penguin if he doesn't play along at least for a little while.

So...good amount of Bullock, for what little we got. Hopefully next week he'll be back in business in full.

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No way that this is the end of Ra's. Not only is this a prequel, the guy is too scary to die, even on his own terms. Really enjoying watching Bruce on this darker path, but still holding onto what makes him Bruce. 

I like Sophia, she is seriously manipulative and savvy. Penguin is falling for her game hook line and sinker. The guy is just painfully lonely. Also, is literally every vaguely ethic restaurant in the world some kind of front for the mob? 

Grundy/Butch and Ed seem like they'll be a fun match. Wonder what Barbara will say? 

I always like Gordon and Alfred teaming up, and Gordon really shines as a kind of mentor/uncle figure to Bruce. Not much Harvey, but hopefully next week will make up for that. 

Hey Lee! Looking rather Deadpool style these days, huh? Gordon sure knows how to pick em, doesn't he? 

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Fun stuff as always, Can't wait for the revelation in two months that Bruce actually killed Ra's' distant cousin, Floyd al Guhl. Such a striking resemblance between them.

Man, this was the episode for cartoon violence. Of course, when you're bringing in a zombie hobo monster created in the Forties, that's bound to happen. At least Ed now can feel more like a George these days. The pharmacy scene was hilarious.

Did not see Bruce "straying" from the path he wants to walk, even though Gotham is basically all about taking liberties with the canon. He's still a bit of a putz, though he does benefit from having dads in Jim and the heavily-armed Alfred.

Any clue as to what Ra's gave Barbara? "Burning sensation" probably wouldn't be in the top ten possibilities.

Fun to see Sophia and Oswald feel each other out. I know Penguin was sweet on Ed last year, but maybe he could work a triangle with her and Jim? I mean, getting messy is what this series is about.

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Disclaimer: I have no idea if Talia will be on this show. 

I’m sure Ra’s will come back but I think he’s dead right now. I think someone will give him his Lazarus bath and i want it to be Talia. I really want to see her. 

I didn’t think it was possible last week but now I’m thinking Ra’s knocked up Barbara. If that’s the only way to bring Babs into this ‘verse, then fine, I’ll take it. 

Oh, Ed, pharmacists ARE doctors. Not the way you mean, true, but they are. I love that Gotham is so corrupt that their pharmacists apparently dispense placebos. That made me laugh. 

Solomon Grundy (born on a Monday) isn’t even near the middle of my favorite Batverse Rogues but his presence here has me so excited. I can’t wait to see what’s next with him. 

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5 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

I didn’t think it was possible last week but now I’m thinking Ra’s knocked up Barbara. If that’s the only way to bring Babs into this ‘verse, then fine, I’ll take it. 

I had that same thought for a second when she felt the tingling feeling when their hands kind of touched, but dismissed it as unlikely. 

Edited by SimoneS

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I also really like how Butch became Solomon Grundy (born on a Monday) with the old timie record player skipping over and over. It was creepy and atmospheric and retro, which really fits an old timie characters and the reto/modern vibe Gotham excels at. 

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So it kinda sorta just plodded along painting by numbers and then HOLY SHIT!!!

"One must never place a loaded rifle on the stage if it isn't going to go off. It's wrong to make promises you don't mean to keep."

Proud of you, Gotham.   

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1 hour ago, doram said:

Was Selina in this episode?

Nope.

And again, from what I hear, she's absent again next week.

As for my thoughts about this episode:

It would have been a major cop out for Bruce to not go through with it.  He needs to learn in this phase.  I'm pleased with his pacing so far.

Also, I think Gordon really does well in a sort of uncle-ish role with Bruce.  Less romance with him, more scenes with Oswald and Bruce, and Harvey.

Sofia Falcone has been a really nice surprise so far.

I can dig Lee in this role.

Solomon Grundy and Ed seems intriguing.

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I really enjoyed this one. Ed and Grundy are a pretty amusing pair. And I kinda hope Ed stays stupid for at least a little while longer - CMS is pretty good with the comedy it brings. 

Not enjoying the tension between Jim and Harvey. Harvey is about the only thing I like about Jim. Again, it's hard to give Jim credit for taking the moral high ground when his master plan is to use one criminal to take down another criminal's empire, and then she no doubt will then run the criminal empire...and I guess Jim is cool with that. Shut up, Jim.

This can't be the end of Ra's. Somehow what he "gave" to Barbara will eventually bring him back. Glad Bruce didn't burn the suit. Lucius would have been pissed. Love that Alfred walks around armed to the teeth, including brass knuckles.

Really like Sofia. She is clearly the smartest person in the room (in any room on this show). She is playing Oswald like a fiddle and he kinda knows it, but he's so desperately lonely that he's allowing it to happen. Smart and obvious move to play the "dead mom club" card with Oswald. Also really, really smart but less obvious is finding an excuse for physical contact. Again, he is a desperately lonely guy. Most humans crave some sort of physical contact. We're largely programmed that way. Babies can die without it. Oswald obviously craves it (note how hug-y he was with Ed, and his father after he found him). And seriously - who touches him? No one. He operates on fear and everyone keeps their fearful distance. But play the dead mom card and show a little warmth and sympathy combined with physical touch and the walls come tumbling down. Sofia is a smart cookie.

And I know the show saved that Lee reveal for the last shot thinking everyone would be like, "Whoa! It's Lee!" But I was all, "Oh. Great." They ruined her last season. And Gotham only makes her miserable. Girl, stay away! 

 

ETA: Man, I am slow on the pick up. I’ve been sitting here wondering why Ed was freaking out about Grundy’s hand (it grew back).

Edited by Kostgard
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This was a great episode. I'm really enjoying this season a lot so far.

Having Nygma and Grundy suddenly as friends works dynamic wise and their scenes were the highlight of the episode. Not sure about Cherry and her underground fight club but I guess Leslie now has something else to do for the season, so there's that.

Bruce fell into Ras's trap a little too easily so I don't believe the latter is genuinely dead but at the same time, I'm fine with Bruce taking a break from crime fighting and Ras being out of the mix for a bit.

Ras clearly had some sort of back up plan with his scenes with Barbara though.

Sofia playing the maternal angle with Oswald is an interesting power play. I'm really finding their interactions interesting this season.

Gordon was good in his scenes with Alfred but a pain with Bullock though, 8/10

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Fun to see Solomon Grundy make his first appearance.  I still want to see Nygma become the Riddler again, though.

I can't believe that's it for Ras, not canon if he's killed by Bruce and stays dead.  I wonder if Babs is going to use her new power to bring him back.

Pyg in the previews for next week, omg.  I just fought him in Arkham Knight (game) and here he is showing up in Gotham.  What timing.  Guy is creepy as hell, actually genuinely scary.

Edited by Dobian
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I have been impressed with how beautiful the cinematography is on Gotham but last night reminded me all over again. What a beautiful episode with all the gorgeous deep jewel tones and something about it was very comic book without being overtly comic book, if that makes sense, but just visually stunning. Loved it. Then the scene with Bruce and R'as al Ghul. This whole scene reminded me of the 1951 film, A Place in the Sun. Alexander Siddig was so channeling Shelley Winters that I was yelling at the TV, "Hit him with an oar, Bruce! Hit him with an oar!" So in last night episode David Mazouz reminded me of a young Montgomery Clift.

I have read some comments from people who think the real weakness in Gotham is Ben McKenzie's portrayal of Jim Gordon but I don't really agree with that. I can see Ben McKenzie becoming Neil Hamilton in his older years, or a reasonable facsimile, I think it's Alfred who is off to me. I so with that Alfred could have been played by one of the Doctors; Matt Smith would be my 1st choice, David Tennant my 2nd.  

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1 hour ago, TresGatos said:

I have been impressed with how beautiful the cinematography is on Gotham but last night reminded me all over again. What a beautiful episode with all the gorgeous deep jewel tones and something about it was very comic book without being overtly comic book, if that makes sense, but just visually stunning. Loved it. Then the scene with Bruce and R'as al Ghul. This whole scene reminded me of the 1951 film, A Place in the Sun. Alexander Siddig was so channeling Shelley Winters that I was yelling at the TV, "Hit him with an oar, Bruce! Hit him with an oar!" So in last night episode David Mazouz reminded me of a young Montgomery Clift.

I have read some comments from people who think the real weakness in Gotham is Ben McKenzie's portrayal of Jim Gordon but I don't really agree with that. I can see Ben McKenzie becoming Neil Hamilton in his older years, or a reasonable facsimile, I think it's Alfred who is off to me. I so with that Alfred could have been played by one of the Doctors; Matt Smith would be my 1st choice, David Tennant my 2nd.  

Very true about the cinematography. Even the worst episode of this show is gorgeous to look at. 

For me, my problem with Jim isn't BM's portrayal of him. I think his acting is fine. He's never really blown me away, but I've never thought he was terrible, either (if I were to rank the actors on the show, he'd be somewhere in the middle). My problem is that Jim is supposed to be the hero of this joint (Bruce is rising as the hero, but he's not there yet). The show tries to sell him as such, but...he's just really, really not. Again, in this episode he throws a fit with Harvey because Harvey is caving to Oswald while Jim is out there still arresting people with licenses. The scene tries to make it seem like Jim is the only morally true cop in Gotham who will always fight to do the right thing even in the face of great odds. But...he's trying to take Oswald down by bringing in another criminal to do it for him. And it's not like Sofia is just going to pack it in and go back to the tropics if she succeeds. She's going to stay in Gotham and run her own criminal empire. And one assumes that part of their deal is that if Sofia succeeds, Jim will turn a blind eye to her activity, effectively doing what he just ragged on Harvey for doing. It really just boils down to Jim thinking, "I find the Falcone brand of crime more palatable than Oswald's brand of crime." Not "the big criminals of this city must be stopped." And that's why I think Jim sucks and why he's a weak spot on this show.

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Apparently the only people who stay dead in Gotham are Bruce’s  parents.  

And any woman who gets involved with Nygma doesn't usually have long to live either.

Apparently they don't have wood chippers in Gotham.  That would definitely cut down on the number of bad guys/girls that come back to life.

Quote

No way that this is the end of Ra's. Not only is this a prequel, the guy is too scary to die, even on his own terms. Really enjoying watching Bruce on this darker path, but still holding onto what makes him Bruce. 

Both his and Barbara's hands touched with a glass in between them.  Part of who he was is probably part of Barbara now.  Something was definitely transferred.

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1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

And any woman who gets involved with Nygma doesn't usually have long to live either.

Yeah but Nygma’s girlfriends are some weird clone thing.    Another will pop up eventually.  Its Gotham.  

 

And how dare i forget to mention my crazy pants hunny bear Barbara who continues to have an honest to god story this season.  I am all a tingle.  

Edited by Chaos Theory
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Ha, no one truly does die on this show, huh?!  Butch is back, but nope, he was actually Cyrus Gold this entire time and is now Solomon Grundy!!  Sure, why not. I do love Drew Powell, so I'm glad he's still around.  Plus this "partnership" with Nygma has potential.  Especially now that they are getting into the world of fight clubs (of course Gotham has fight clubs!), and the doctor on staff is none other then.... Lee!  Never change, Gotham!  Never change!

Surprised Bruce actually did knife Ra's in the end, but I have to think this isn't it, since they went out of the way to make Alexander Siddig a regular and everything.  Maybe it has something to do with whatever power he transferred over to Barbara?  Either way, I'm guessing this is still going to effect Bruce on a ton of levels, and hopefully Alfred will help him through it.  At least he stopped him from burning the suit, which would have sucked for Lucious after all that hard work!

Sofia seems to still be doing a good job at handling Oswald.  She truly seems to be a perfect Falcone!

Bullock continues to be wasted, but at least he gets a scene, while Selina and Tabitha seem to be off doing their own thing.

Gold star to the pharmacist, as he seems way smarter then the average Gotham citizen and knew the best way to trick and escape Nygma.  Good for you, buddy!

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28 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

Bullock continues to be wasted

I think this episode was filmed during the time of Jade’s disappearance/return home so that’s why we’re light on Bullock. 

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Gotham was first settled by "The Ironborn"

What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger

36 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

Ha, no one truly does die on this show, huh?

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Love the new partnership with Ed and Grundy. Ed could do no wrong IMO. I swear he could have awesome chemistry with the hot dog cart.

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I don't trust Ra's as far as I could chuck a handful of his ashes. He definitely did some kind of life/soul transfer to his current familiar/pet, Barbara, who really does get the short end of the stick more than anyone else, when you think about it. And in Gotham that's saying a LOT. 

Oh, boy. Lee. It just breaks my heart to see Morena dragged forth yet again, like a battered and about to be stomped robot in one of those battle bot geek-offs. She's a good actor and does what she can with the Molasses Swamp that the writers turned her character into, but honestly it is time to quit with her. She keeps leaving and coming back, leaving and coming back...we can't miss you if you won't stay gone, Lee! They keep trying to fit Barbara's crazy arc onto her and it's tearing at every seam.

No Selina or Ivy again this week. 

Good to see Butch/Cyrus acting out a crazy Libertarian's dream of health care: six months and you don't bootstrap your way out of your coma? Into Slaughter Swamp, which of course just happens to be the dumping ground for Indian Hill, the gift that keeps on giving! Which is apparently located next to Dust Bowl Oklahoma? Sure, why not? Gotham gonna Gotham at this point. He and Ed are going to make a heckuva duo for the next half-ep or so until the writers get bored again and go charging off down some other path. 

Jim Gordon, the dummy, was about mid-level dummy this time around; Say, 6.73 on a scale of ten. The licensing thing is getting old, especially when Jim brings up a freakin' judge in the same damn breath. Why are they even still pretending there's any kind of justice system still in place? But that's pretty par for the course. The rest of the ep was just him and Alfred chasing their tails and presumably getting caught on camera savagely beating/shooting four guards at the prison while Bruce had his heart to heart with Ra's. 

Which, by the way, was kind of irritating because once again the viewers are stuck knowing way more, apparently, than Bruce (WHO WAS KIDNAPPED AND TRAINED BY THE GUY) does about Ra's and how he works. The more Bruce protests about how he knows Ra's is manipulating him the easier it is for Ra's to keep doing it and it's glaringly obvious to everybody except Bruce! There's no way Ra's would be oh boo hoo hoo, end my suffering how I just loathe being alive and watching Bruce not grasp that is deeply wearying.

Now, to be fair, it's pretty damn hard to fight an enemy with outposts in your head, and who knows what R had done to him during his captivity. If the show actually deals with that--shows Bruce not just angsting around the library set but fighting his way back to mental health and functioning--I shall humbly beg its pardon. We'll see.

Sophia has really grown on me. Unlike the "make Lee into Barbara" crap, her using the mommy manipulation (shades of Fish and her dad!) reboot on Penguin was very, very well done. She really pulls off the blend of little girl nostalgia and business woman, all the while seeming to be totally up front, extremely well. And watching Penguin slowly submit, knowing he's being manipulated, played so much better than the Bruce/Ra's confrontation because it was watching two equals in the game.

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Another good episode!

  • Glad to see butch get more focus and more to do now. Yes, he's Grundy now, but i'll take it. He's been one of my favorites since the beginning. 
  • The grundy/nygma duo seems fun. I feel like it especially works with it being a "dumb" nygma. The duo gives me frankenstein feels.
  • More of that pharmacist dude please. He was fun. That whole scene with ed was fun
  • Stop yelling at harvey, jim, he's trying tocdo his job! And the return of harvey's glasses! It's understandable that his role has been small the past few episodes, but it hasn't stopped a huge harvey-shaped hole forming in my heart. And speaking of missing characters...
  • I haven't really missed selina. Not saying that i'm fine with that (i don't dislike her or anything), but i think it speaks for the good writing/plot we've been getting recently. I haven't really missed ivy or tabs the past few episodes
  • I highly doubt ra's is gone for good. It'd be too easy. alexander siddig is absolutely killing his role as ra's. Ra's has been chilling. Just the way he talked about he would just vanish and when bruce has almost forgotten about him he'd come back to murder everyone dear to him...sends shivers down my spine
  • Lee...i don't know what to think of her return. We'll see. She seems to be in a bad spot right now. Her stint of being evil has clearly gotten to her.
  • Continuing to love queen sofia. I love how she's so suttle about her tactics. I like her style, it's different from more of the in-your-face stuff we've gotten with maroni or falcone.
  • Is it just me or are they suddenly writing jim a little better? Like, the past two episodes he hasn't been as dumb dumb as he usually is (hes still kinda dumb, but he seems to have improved)??? Is it because he's been thrust into an adult authority position concerning the alex and bruce stuff recently? If so, please continue to write more stuff like this because i think it works in favor of jim. I feel like this is more like what he should have been. Too much other nonsense. More of jim doing his job as a cop please.

So far i've been really enjoying this season, so i hope it keeps up. It started a little slow but the ra's al ghul arc has been pretty fantastic. Much better than the uneven season 3 we got.

Edited by HoodlumSheep
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20 hours ago, Snookums said:

Good to see Butch/Cyrus acting out a crazy Libertarian's dream of health care: six months and you don't bootstrap your way out of your coma? Into Slaughter Swamp, which of course just happens to be the dumping ground for Indian Hill, the gift that keeps on giving! Which is apparently located next to Dust Bowl Oklahoma? Sure, why not? Gotham gonna Gotham at this point. He and Ed are going to make a heckuva duo for the next half-ep or so until the writers get bored again and go charging off down some other path. 

Heh. This cracked me up imagining the hospital staff all, "Man, this guy is just not pulling his weight in his recovery process. Also, Barbara does not offer a comprehensive medical plan to her staff and it's covering none of this. Off to the swamp he goes!" If Bruce wants to be The Hero this City Needs, he should throw some money at the shitty healthcare system. He could really make a difference there. 

I also enjoyed the Grapes of Wrath Gang, and the fact that they weren't even listening to that nursery rhyme on, like, a Victrola, but on a damn wax cylinder player one of them probably stole from Thomas Edison. That still didn't keep the sound editors from adding a record scratch sound effect. God bless you, Gotham. This crazy shit is a big reason why I love you.

 

6 hours ago, HoodlumSheep said:

Is it just me or are they suddenly writing jim a little better? Like, the past two episodes he hasn't been as dumb dumb as he usually is (hes still kinda dumb, but he seems to have improved)??? Is it because he's been thrust into an adult authority position concerning the alex and bruce stuff recently? If so, please continue to write more stuff like this because i think it works in favor of jim. I feel like this is more like what he should have been. Too much other nonsense. More of jim doing his job as a cop please.

 

I do think the fact that Jim has largely been around Bruce these past couple episodes is responsible for Jim coming across better than usual. Jim's relationship with Bruce is one of the few things about Jim's character that works for me, so I'll be happy if this continues for a while. Just about the only other thing that works for Jim is his friendship with Harvey, and that looks like it's about to hit the skids. Now that Lee's back I hope she stays the hell away from him.

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2 minutes ago, Kostgard said:

Now that Lee's back I hope she stays the hell away from him.

I hope that you don't hope too hard...

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16 hours ago, AngelKitty said:

Well, we all know R'as is going to end up inside Barbara...stop, not like that.

I'm pretty sure it has been like that...and I approve. They're both good looking and I feel the chemistry. I just know reality of network TV means we're not actually going to get that kind of scene.

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On 10/20/2017 at 6:43 PM, Kathemy said:
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Ra's Al Ghul, "The Demon's Head", is dead, murdered by Bruce Wayne.

Ra's was executed by Bruce.  Bruce's "I will not kill" and Alfred's "dark path" are stupid.  Harvey (it can't be Jim, obvs) should take Bruce by the hand and tell him that there are times where killing is the much greater good. 

Quote

One of few reasons I can think of for indiscriminately buying into the moral absolute of "Thou Shalt Not Kill" - a rule no man with working self-preservation or empathy can truly live by but for luck - is as a safeguard against one's inner demon. Bruce's inner demon is on full display here.

I like this.  It's too bad that Alfred seems pushing the "No one should kill -- except for me..." line.

You know it's a good episode when Sophia's scenes with Penguin are almost an afterthought in your review.

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On 10/19/2017 at 11:13 PM, scarynikki12 said:

Solomon Grundy (born on a Monday) isn’t even near the middle of my favorite Batverse Rogues but his presence here has me so excited. I can’t wait to see what’s next with him. 

Grundy is (technically) not a Batverse Rogue.  Grundy first fought Alan Scott, the original Golden Age Green Lantern (wow, enjoy this comic page from yesteryear).  That, of course, is no big deal for the DC Live-Action TV Universe (wow, that's a mouthful) who, obviously, has had several Batverse Rogues, including Mr. Al Ghul and his daughter Talia, show up in that other show fighting Mr. Queen.  As a matter of fact, it's "Hilarious In Hindsight" that Grundy has his "origin" episode happen in a pre-Batman Gotham because the comics (much much later) ret-conned Alan Scott's story to have him protecting Gotham City long before Batman appears.

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True but I don't read Green Lantern comics so, for me, Grundy is a Batverse Rogue. 

Thinking about the episode more, I still weirdly think that Ra's may have knocked up Barbara but I'm getting prepared for that magic moment to be how he comes back.  I want it to be Talia giving him a Lazarus bath but this show often goes the opposite way of what I predict, so I won't hang my hopes on that.

I also love how Sophia is handling Pengy.  Using his mom's goulash recipe to unnerve him and then massaging his foot to gain trust were masterful moves. 

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1 minute ago, doram said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Burton's Batman OK withkilling?

It could be.  I don't keep track of, or even watch, all the movies.

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Burton's Batman killed the Joker.

I think it's important to understand how Batman's ironclad no-killing rule works as a storytelling crutch.

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Since this is an arc about Bruce having learning experiences, I'm fine with the decision to have Bruce kill Ra's, so long as it's served to be a teachable moment for him.  

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On 10/20/2017 at 10:32 AM, TresGatos said:

I so with that Alfred could have been played by one of the Doctors; Matt Smith would be my 1st choice, David Tennant my 2nd.  

Well, hell.  Sean Pertwee's DAD was  the Third Doctor so that's pretty darn close.   Plus, I LOVE HIM in this role.

23 hours ago, Kostgard said:

also enjoyed the Grapes of Wrath Gang, and the fact that they weren't even listening to that nursery rhyme on, like, a Victrola, but on a damn wax cylinder player one of them probably stole from Thomas Edison. That still didn't keep the sound editors from adding a record scratch sound effect. God bless you, Gotham. This crazy shit is a big reason why I love you.

 

Absolutely!  You don't see shit like this on Arrow or Flash, do you.  With all its flaws I really fucking love this goddamned show.

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With Sophia using Penguin's mother's recipe to manipulate him reminding us perhaps of Fish Mooney using Liza to manipulate Falcone, it would make sense to have Penguin eventually try to deal with Sophia the same way that Falcone dealt with Liza.

A gang war between Penguin and a returning Falcone out for revenge could be a great storyline.

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2 hours ago, ratgirlagogo said:

You don't see shit like this on Arrow or Flash, do you.  With all its flaws I really fucking love this goddamned show.

The best of the "Flarrowverse" by far is Legends of Tomorrow.  They had a rocky first season, with three horrid cast members, but last seaqson was great and this one is starting very good.

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Legends is not as dark as Gotham, but both give off the same sensibility of "All this is based on comic books, dammit, so we're going balls-out and no longer have any fucks to give about how insane it sounds."

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3 hours ago, Miss Dee said:

Legends is not as dark as Gotham, but both give off the same sensibility of "All this is based on comic books, dammit, so we're going balls-out and no longer have any fucks to give about how insane it sounds."

YASSSSS!!!

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I love how Alfred was bitching to Jim about how he sucks as a copy and yet fails in the ONE thing Jim asked him to do -keep an eye on Bruce and THEN has the balls to roll up into GCPD asking for his help. Alfred, I love you, but damn, LOL.

BabyBat, never take off your hoodie for the cameras to expose your identity while you are about to commit a murder. Ra's handing Bruce's ass to him was great. He's evil but he is trying to teach him something. Ra's is to Bruce what they wish Malcolm Merlyn was to Thea on Arrow. Malcolm Merlyn was a slimy weak pretender who should've stayed dead in S1.

Dead Ra's skeleton's jaw dropping was so commenting on the audience's reaction at that moment. Hee!

Alfred did come through for Bruce in the end with his pep talk. He wasn't going to let him let one mistake derail him. Bruce now knows how hard it is going to be from now on to not give in to the desire to be executioner.

Check my undercrackers? Oh, Alfred. That butler was packing all kinds of heat!

I'm trying not to get my hopes up about Sophia as Lee came on awesome and was de-stroyed. I love Morena but Lee needed to stay gone. We now have one too many crazy girlfriends in town for Jim.

It's smart (and sad) to plant that Riddler's cognitive abilities may be a wee bit compromised which is why his plans against Batman will almost always be upended. Bruce is smart and becomes a master tactician but had Nygma not been frozen and 'broken' he would be leaps ahead in experience and intelligence.  Even if/when he regains his smarts, he's always going to wonder if he's at 100%. Bats constantly outwitting him will always make him wonder - if only Penguin hadn't broken me. And yet a broken Nygma will still end of being pretty damned smart and formidable.  It's a sad, fitting, bittter origin of the Riddler we know will battle Batman.

Penguin eating the goulash was so like the critic losing his shit at the end of Ratatouille.  I know he's pissed Sofia is playing him, but I would've taken it to go and eaten it at home. Oswald's hair has some insane lift! 

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On ‎20‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 3:26 AM, Lantern7 said:

Fun stuff as always, Can't wait for the revelation in two months that Bruce actually killed Ra's' distant cousin, Floyd al Guhl. Such a striking resemblance between them.

Man, this was the episode for cartoon violence. Of course, when you're bringing in a zombie hobo monster created in the Forties, that's bound to happen. At least Ed now can feel more like a George these days. The pharmacy scene was hilarious.

Did not see Bruce "straying" from the path he wants to walk, even though Gotham is basically all about taking liberties with the canon. He's still a bit of a putz, though he does benefit from having dads in Jim and the heavily-armed Alfred.

Any clue as to what Ra's gave Barbara? "Burning sensation" probably wouldn't be in the top ten possibilities.

Fun to see Sophia and Oswald feel each other out. I know Penguin was sweet on Ed last year, but maybe he could work a triangle with her and Jim? I mean, getting messy is what this series is about.

You make it sound like he gave Barbara an STD?

On ‎20‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 4:44 AM, tennisgurl said:

I also really like how Butch became Solomon Grundy (born on a Monday) with the old timie record player skipping over and over. It was creepy and atmospheric and retro, which really fits an old timie characters and the reto/modern vibe Gotham excels at. 

Yes, that's the clever thing, they always said the Burton movies were deliberately set in 'No time', a very different world to ours, Gotham pulls that trick too (particularly clever that we never know which war Jim is a veteran off, it looks like Vietnam?)

 

On ‎22‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 7:07 PM, scarynikki12 said:

True but I don't read Green Lantern comics so, for me, Grundy is a Batverse Rogue. 

Thinking about the episode more, I still weirdly think that Ra's may have knocked up Barbara but I'm getting prepared for that magic moment to be how he comes back.  I want it to be Talia giving him a Lazarus bath but this show often goes the opposite way of what I predict, so I won't hang my hopes on that.

I also love how Sophia is handling Pengy.  Using his mom's goulash recipe to unnerve him and then massaging his foot to gain trust were masterful moves. 

I kinda thought we'd have a little more at end of the scene where the cook tells Sophia she followed the Penguin's mother's recipe exactly. Have Sophia try a bite and say 'You know actually this IS really good" and the cook nods in agreement.

 

On ‎23‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 1:15 AM, Kathemy said:

Burton's Batman killed the Joker.

I think it's important to understand how Batman's ironclad no-killing rule works as a storytelling crutch.

Not just that, he blows up the Joker's goons at the chemical plant, he burns Two Face's henchmen alive with the jet blast from the Batmobile, he lures Two Face to his death, he massacres Luthor's goons hijacking the Kryptonite... I'm trying to think of Batman and Robin but I think I've successfully blotted it from my memory.    

 

On ‎02‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 5:36 AM, Last Time Lord said:

All I could think about when Solomon Grundy went from wearing that... loon cloth? To suddenly the clothes of a guy he beat up was this:

 

 

That is one truly 70s collar!

Edited by Joe Hellandback · Reason: Extra kills
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Loved the humour in this episode (putting the "comic" in comic book?)

Quote

 

Penguin: Item 3 on the agenda?

Flunky: Kill Sofia Falcone?

Penguin: Add a question mark

Sofia: I'll expect you at 8 then!

 

Now that is one cool lady!

Quote

Edward Nygma: I'll even consider NATURAL REMEDIES!

I'm guessing he's not a big fan of quackery - ironically, he lives in a world where magic exists.

C'mon, Bruce was never going to stab Ra's (and certainly not in the back, while sleeping). Wasn't surprised he spoke up though a little surprised he wanted Bruce to kill him (or at least, "kill" him).

Riddler and Butch/Solomon Grundy made a fun couple. I thought (traditionally, at least) Riddler was incapable of lying, but he sure managed to lie to Butch here. Or maybe it's because he's currently brain damaged?

On ‎20‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 2:20 AM, WritinMan said:

Slaughter Swamp? What could possibly go wrong there?

Sure sounds like a lovely place!

On ‎30‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 9:59 PM, TobinAlbers said:

That butler was packing all kinds of heat!

It reminded me of the arrest of the Joker in The Dark Knight (maybe intentionally).

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Well, this certainly sped things along!

1. Poor Butch, once a respected gangster having threesomes with Tabby and Barbara, now some gibbering freak. Still, at least he got his hand back. 

2. Speaking of which, no Tabby, no Selina, no Ivy, let's have them back on the show. Plus more Harvey.  

3. Shame they couldn't have got Lori Petty back as the runner of the fight club, she was great.

4. Well, that sure is a career change for Lee! Interesting to see where this goes. 

5. Is Doctor Bashir dead or is it one big trick? Only time will tell. 

6. Interesting to see Alfred the walking armoury, he packs a Browning 9mm and a Walther PPK, classic SAS weapons.

7. Entertaining to watch Ed try to get his groove back, the odd thing about Gotham is it makes you care about people who are pretty despicable if not outright evil. 

8. So the seduction of Oswald continues, he knows it but just can't walk away.

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Ed and Grundy was amusing.  I like how this show puts unlikely characters together and makes it work.

I'm glad they're focusing on Bruce and his journey to Dark Knight, plus linking Jim Gordon to their story.  I don't mind that he "killed" that psycho since we know he'll be back.  But it's a tad ridiculous that Alfred and Jim are trying so hard to stop Bruce from killing and then they casually kill a few fake guards with a few quips thrown in.  

Sophia's tactics reminded me of Fish's manipulations of Falcone in Season 1 as well.  Hopefully, this will bring something new to the table (but I doubt it).

I'm not thrilled to see Lee again.  Still self-destructive, I see.

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