S02.E04: Still There

[ShadowFacts]

10 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I'm not sure what passive aggressive means either, but I think it's pretty much anything non-confrontational but meant to make the other person feel bad.  I would say Kate is a master at this.  Floating around Toby, refusing eye contact, making him feel he's in the wrong, but not telling him what it is she's worried about.

They really need to take a class in Communication 101.  Toby is pretty open and seems to say what he means, maybe too much.  But Kate definitely seems avoidant at times, big on sighing and eyerolling but not being direct.  Then again, when she tells Toby something, like about watching football alone, he steamrolls her.  Here she needn't have kept up the charade of exercising to get into a dress for the bar mitzvah performance when she could have told him what was really going on. 

[debraran]

5 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

They really need to take a class in Communication 101.  Toby is pretty open and seems to say what he means, maybe too much.  But Kate definitely seems avoidant at times, big on sighing and eyerolling but not being direct.  Then again, when she tells Toby something, like about watching football alone, he steamrolls her.  Here she needn't have kept up the charade of exercising to get into a dress for the bar mitzvah performance when she could have told him what was really going on. 

I agree, I knew the dress was a ruse,  but not sure why. She wasn't surprised it fit. Someone on this forum mentioned the pregnancy as a "spoiler" but then I found an article in People online, from Sept.,  that had her saying, "Would anyone know if I was pregnant" if she didn't lose weight. Hadn't read it before but maybe she thought it sounded like "if I am in the future" but obviously she knew it was coming.

I hope it does bring about more communication as service to the characters and people watching who can learn from it. I never thought communication would break down with my husband, but it does if you let it, what comes easy in the beginning, can wane later. They are just starting out, so really a bad signal.

Edited October 21, 2017 by debraran

[Paloma]

On 10/18/2017 at 4:13 PM, MoonMountain said:

a little less word vomit-y

Just have to say I love this description! It is a problem in this show and many others, but it is especially true of Randall.

[Paloma]

On 10/20/2017 at 10:11 AM, Clanstarling said:

Yes, the crap gets passed down. I have a friend who I thought was overly anxious and smothering of her child - then I met her mother and realized that she was actually a much milder version. I try very hard to be self-aware and stop some of the patterns of my parents' crap - but it's easier said than done. Life doesn't have a scriptwriter or safety net.

Thank you! I am still smarting from my daughter's last visit (so much like the Kate/Rebecca dynamic) and feeling that it's not fair that it is so difficult when I've tried so hard to NOT be like my mother (who, as I've mentioned elsewhere, was emotionally abusive).  I really could use a scriptwriter or safety net. 

[doodlebug]

Quote

I don't think they would have detected a heart beat, even on the ultrasound at poppy seed size. I forget the name of the poster who is an OB/GYN. But Dr. Poster, is that correct? I think lentil size is about when you'd see. I had bleeding early on in a pregnancy. When my doc did an ultrasound, it looked like a beating tear drop (so it was probably lentil sized and yes, there was a heartbeat).

I think the doctor and Kate were probably referring to the fetus as a poppyseed or lentil because that is the way a lot of lay publications describe the fetus. Kate was probably reading something and mentioned it to the doctor. When I was a resident, we were told to never discuss babies or ovaries or uteruses in terms of fruits, vegetables or sporting equipment; I still do it, though, because it is easier for a lay person to picture.

At around 6 weeks, a fetus is shaped kind of like a kidney bean and measures about 50 mm in length which is around a quarter of an inch.  It's length will more than double in a week and it will be a little more than a centimeter long at 7 weeks.  And, yes, a trained ultrasonographer using decent quality equipment can indeed detect a heartbeat in a baby that is only a quarter of an inch long and whose heart is about the size of the head of a pin.  Pretty cool stuff.

[ProudMary]

On 10/18/2017 at 0:36 PM, Jodithgrace said:

When Jack came down with the chicken pox, my first thought was..OMG Jack dies of chicken pox? But then I immediately realized that the timeline was wrong. I mean, it's not enough that I keep expecting a piano to fall on his head every time he walks on a sidewalk, but now I'm killing him off in the wrong time periods...

You can relax.  It's not a Chuck Lorre production. ;)

On 10/18/2017 at 3:20 PM, screenaddict said:

I'm not sure how I feel about the Kate pregnancy. Having a kid has a way of forcing you to put someone else first in your life. I'm not convinced she puts her fiance first in her life - what is going to happen when she has a kid and there are two humans expecting her to occasionally acquiesce? 

Oh, if only this were more often true.  Unfortunately, I think far too few parents do this.  Being a good parent requires you to be almost selfless.  Not many people are willing to put their own needs and desires on a back burner.  From what we've seen of Kate, I'm not particularly hopeful that she can do this.  She has too many emotional issues of her own that need attention.

On 10/18/2017 at 5:23 PM, NutMeg said:

I think I've fallen out of love with this show. We're still friends and all, and I like it well enough, but as a great lady sang, "The Thrill Is Gone".      

B.B. King was a great lady?  He certainly was great but...

On 10/18/2017 at 10:33 PM, OtterMommy said:

As far as I know, only women who have been artificially inseminated/IVF etc.  Most women are just peeing on a stick at 6 weeks.  When I was having babies (less than a decade ago), the OB/GYN wouldn't even see you until you were 10 weeks.  I think the earliest I had an ultrasound was at my 10 week appointment, and that is because my OB/GYN (I had a different doctor for each pregnancy) had one in her office.  Normally, it was at 14 weeks (I think) if you are having the nuchal tube testing and then around 20 weeks.

But you know what I chalk all that up to?  A man writing this (to be fair, I have no clue who actually wrote this episode.  It could have been a woman, but my default is to blame Fogelman for everything).  This isn't an excuse....I've seen so many shows, usually written by men, where the whole pregnancy thing is so unlike anything that would happen in reality.  Seriously, is it that hard to talk to a woman?  We are, after all, 51% of the population....

I agree with your default position.  :-)
While the writing for this show has quality, its depiction of female characters leaves a good deal to be desired, with Beth perhaps being the outlier.

 

[biakbiak]

19 minutes ago, ProudMary said:

B.B. King was a great lady?  He certainly was great but...

Aretha Franklin also covered it as have many other people, though B.B's cover charted higher than the original.

I have finally decided that I just do not like Kate. If I had to choose between Kate and Toby I would choose Toby he can at least be tolerable when he is with Kevin.

[Conotocarious]

I completely disagree that the pregnancy storyline is unrealistic. I had my first about 10 years ago. I was peeing on a stick even before I missed a period (first response) and I was in the doctor for a blood test confirming it at like 5 weeks. At six weeks my obgyn did a dating ultrasound which put me at 6 weeks, 4 days pregnant.

 

And I was not high risk, in excellent shape and had no reason to be concerned about anything. Kate has a reason for needing a doctor’s care immediately.

[Crs97]

Regarding Rebecca and Kate's relationship I always find myself thinking of a favorite line I heard a long time ago:

"When I had children I pledged I would not make the same mistakes my mother made with me.  So I made different ones."

[Daisy]

On 10/19/2017 at 4:20 PM, JudyObscure said:

About a year ago, some fantasy about fostering a little black girl  (I'm way too old) got me wondering how I would do her hair and I ended up watching hours of YouTube videos of black mothers doing their daughters' hair.  There was something so incredibly beautiful and bonding about all of them!  I loved hearing Beth talk about what it meant to her mother and sisters.

 

 

me too. and what Beth's ma said, that's what my mom said to me like EVERY TIME she did my hair. I suck at doing black hair though I always said if I had a child, lord help both of us if it was a girl. 

[MaryPatShelby]

Has Jack/Milo always talked out of the side of his mouth?  I never noticed it last season, and this season it's all I can focus on.

[biakbiak]

13 minutes ago, MaryPatShelby said:

Has Jack/Milo always talked out of the side of his mouth?  I never noticed it last season, and this season it's all I can focus on.

Yes, he has dead nerves in his mouth since birth.

[theatremouse]

I think the mustache makes it a little more conspicuous.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I just saw a story today about a girl whose head was shaved - the foster parents said it was for "hygeine" which made me grateful that Beth and Randall were much more patient with Deja about her hair. A friend of mine said that when she was in foster care as a child, the same thing happened to her. The foster parents cut off all her hair because they didn't want to be bothered dealing with it. 

[theatremouse]

When Deja cut her hair off and Beth and Randall looked shocked, my first impulse was at least she cut her hair and not her skin. 

[NutMeg]

14 hours ago, ProudMary said:

B.B. King was a great lady?  He certainly was great but..

 

Thanks for making me discover this! I was thinking of Ella Fitzgerald...

13 hours ago, biakbiak said:

Aretha Franklin also covered it as have many other people, though B.B's cover charted higher than the original.

... but indeed Aretha Franklin is another lady who sang it too. As did Nina Simone. Probably others too :)

If I'm not mistaken, B.B. King is singing another song with the same title.

[debraran]

Seems like it might be a lighter show the next 2 weeks. Next week is a camping trip with Jack and the boys (has to be funny at times) and Rebecca gets unexpected news. Halloween is called "The 20s" and is says

Trick-or-treating with the 10 year olds goes awry for Jack and Rebecca and Randall, Kevin and Kate have life-changing Halloweens.  That sounds funny and maybe a little ominous. Maybe shows Halloween's over more than one year.

I was talking to someone last night about how many wonderful actors they have at all ages and I hope we can still see them over the seasons. I'm not sure how they will show 20's., it isn't much younger but maybe they will have ways of making the younger ones older or this is it and they will leave that part out.

[stefinny]

On 10/18/2017 at 7:49 AM, llewis823 said:

I was an only child so I did not get chicken pox until I was 21 - about  a month or so before my wedding. lol  I only got it in my scalp and on my legs. Luckily I didn't end up with any scars and it all cleared up before my wedding. But the weird thing is - when I went to work at a hospital 4 years ago (at 49 years old) they do a test for chicken pox immunity and it said I had never had them! But I was an adult when I had them - I know for certain that I did but my blood tests showed no immunity??? So I had to have the chicken pox vaccine at 49 years old! Pretty wild, huh?

I also had chicken pox as an adult - when I was 25.  I don't know where I got them.  It was miserable and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.  I didn't have a ton of pox, but I was so sick!  So, yeah, no way would any snow be geting shoveled.  Interesting about the immunty - I didn't know they could check for that.  I am 51 now...,maybe I should look into it.

[possibilities]

On 10/18/2017 at 9:45 AM, Clanstarling said:

I dunno - healthy Rebecca could have done the same thing. I sure as hell would have.

I agree. the gender roles on this show are bizarre. I'd think since she hated her mother so much, the rage alone would help her power through the shoveling. Or she'd be on the phone looking for a neighborhood teen she could pay to come over and deal with it. Staying upstairs and skipping breakfast is ridiculous. I kept wondering if Jack was going to die, not in the fire, but in the shoveling. It would explain everybody's guilt and inability to get over it.

RE Jack misremembering if he'd had it already, measles and chicken pox aren't that similar. I had chicken pox and you never forget the itching.

I was actually shocked when Jack said "What's with you?" to Rebecca at the video store. It felt like he was shaming her for being... frisky. I expected him to be enjoying it. I do hope they put that scene deliberately to take the halo off him, and not because they think it's cute that he's like that. And I hope it pays off later with more development. This episode was played (other than that scene) as a good time in their marriage. But I can't think of any reason to have that scene unless it's supposed to show us there are problems.

[Cardie]

3 hours ago, possibilities said:

I kept wondering if Jack was going to die, not in the fire

Unless you mean shoveling in general, Jack couldn't die from that shoveling, when the kids were only ten. We know they were 17 when he died.

[Elle Driver]

On 10/18/2017 at 5:44 AM, dju said:

Oh boy, here comes the negative. This season is felling far less organic and far more 'we're manipulating you but pretending that we're a show that is above manipulating you' than the first one. The Kevin/Jack stuff alone felt so contrived I couldn't keep from rolling my eyes, in particular, the scene where Kevin is watching his old football game. The only emotion I had leaving that scene was annoyance because I could see those thick ass strings being pulled, having Jack's paused image on the television while Kevin hangs his head in angst?? So obnoxiously on the nose. And we really can't let one episode slide where Jack does something heroic can we? Gotta slide in that subtle/not so subtle masculine undertone somewhere. Which reminds me of the ridiculous moment where Jack throws Rebecca the "what is with you??" line in the video store in response to Rebecca making HARMLESS remarks about male actors. Careful Jack! Rein her in or she'll be leaving you for them!! Like...seriously?? I hope they're dropping in lines like that to tie back to Jack's flaw of possessiveness/jealousy because if not, the again, subtle, not so subtle male domineering throughline of the show that I cannot shut up about is getting very hard to let slide.

The Deja storyline was really the only thing that I felt had some genuine heart to it and that's mostly because of the actress. Randall is too busy trying so hard to win her over for what feels like his own benefit rather than Deja's while simultaneously trying so hard to beat his wife on his self-constructed parenting game only to come to the startling revelation that parenting is about teamwork!! What a concept. Just, man alive, I think I may be out with this show.

 

On 10/18/2017 at 7:53 AM, CofCinci said:

I adored the first season but I can barely make it through second season episodes now. I can’t get into the foster child storyline because I know they’re going to take her from the family once she gets attached (but of course she’ll return). I can’t get into Kevin’s drug addiction. I can’t get into this pregnancy either or her singing. The magic is gone for me.  

That's how I'm feeling about this season I haven't really connected with any of the episodes and watching them felt like a chore, I'm really bummed out about it. I loved this show!

This was definitely my favorite episode so far, I loved Rebecca telling off racist grandma and then explaining racism to Randall. They continue being the kind of adoptive (white) parents that a black child needs, you definitely see it in how well adjusted and comfortable with his blackness Randall is. 

The Deja story continues to be a low point, they should have just adopted a newborn. Randall unloading on this poor, abused (its not confirmed but I think its safe to say she was, the signs are there) child is just painful to watch. I really miss William and the flashbacks are just making it apparent the hole he left in the family.

I don't know how I feel about Kate being pregnant and I continue not to give a shit about Kevin either way.

[BoogieBurns]

8 hours ago, possibilities said:

I had chicken pox and you never forget the itching.

Well I had them at 2 or 3. I don't remember itching at all. I just remember my mom putting my sister and I in the tub together so we would both have it. I was allergic to everything as a kid, so I had a lot of calamine lotion memories. Surely she covered me in that pink stuff post-bath.

Oh, I think Kate will lose the baby. Just apropos of nothing. I felt it in my gut.

Edited October 23, 2017 by BoogieBurns

[JudyObscure]

16 hours ago, possibilities said:

I was actually shocked when Jack said "What's with you?" to Rebecca at the video store. It felt like he was shaming her for being... frisky. I expected him to be enjoying it.

It's interesting how differently we all see that little scene.  I thought Rebecca seemed sort of immature there. I was surprised to hear her talking like a drooling sixteen year-old in front of her kids.  I  wouldn't expect a spouse to enjoy hearing their wife or husband going on about how attracted they are to another person, movie star or not.  It's not that Jack would be worried that she would actually go out with those guys, just that he might feel bad to know that her ideal is someone who doesn't look a thing like him.

[Crs97]

If Jack cannot handle his wife saying she will watch a movie because it has Patrick Swayse or John Travolta in it, that says everything about him and nothing about her.  What an insecure little man if that's the case.

[NYCFree]

On 10/18/2017 at 11:04 PM, doodlebug said:

OB/GYN here... Certainly in a woman her size, it is imperative to nail down a due date as early as possible both for accuracy and because there is no way on God's green earth that a woman her size having her first kid at age 36 is not going to have gestational diabetes and/or blood pressure issues and need to have labor induced at some point.  Obviously, with a woman Kate's size, attempting to assess the size of her uterus on examination is going to be impossible, the doctor wouldn't be able to feel it.  It will probably also be impossible to hear the heart rate with a Doppler (the electronic gizmo we use in the office) until maybe 20 weeks, so the doc may well have to do an ultrasound every visit for the first months just to check the fetal heartbeat. 

Woman of Kate's weight classification  here. I had my first and only child at age 35. I did not have gestational diabetes. I did not have blood pressure issues until my due date, when they did indeed induce. The doctor had no problem using the Doppler for fetal heart rate. We are definitely living here on God's green earth.

[JudyObscure]

42 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

 What an insecure little man if that's the case.

I agree that it might indicate a bit of insecurity on Jack's part.  He has always talked about Rebecca as though she was way out of his league.  I just don't think of "insecure," as such an awful thing to be.  I'll take a slightly insecure man over a cocky braggart any day.

[Guest]

My first thought was Rebecca was feeling frisky because Jack was still saying no to sex maybe but I guess this was not that era.  

I don't think Jack's very physically different from hunk age Travolta and Swayze.   They all three have the shaggy, muscley, dumb jock thing going on, to some extent.  

Edited October 23, 2017 by Guest

[Clanstarling]

2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

It's interesting how differently we all see that little scene.  I thought Rebecca seemed sort of immature there. I was surprised to hear her talking like a drooling sixteen year-old in front of her kids.  I  wouldn't expect a spouse to enjoy hearing their wife or husband going on about how attracted they are to another person, movie star or not.  It's not that Jack would be worried that she would actually go out with those guys, just that he might feel bad to know that her ideal is someone who doesn't look a thing like him.

Our experiences do shade our interpretations. My husband and I have always joked around about attraction to movie stars - after all, it's not likely they'll ever be in your sphere and a threat. We rib each other about each other's attractions - so I saw that scene as a light hearted in joke that married couples often have. Of course, you have to be pretty secure in your relationship for that to work.

Edited October 23, 2017 by Clanstarling

[ShadowFacts]

23 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

Our experiences do shade our interpretations. My husband and I have always joked around about attraction to movie stars - after all, it's not likely they'll ever be in your sphere and a threat. We rib each other about each other's attractions - so I saw that scene as a light hearted in joke that married couples often have. Of course, you have to be pretty secure in your relationship for that to work.

Exactly, and we see that Jack is not secure in the relationship, maybe not secure in his own identity as a family man, especially later when Rebecca tries to strike out on her own with her singing.  Plus we know he struggles with alcohol.  I bet we see it more in the future, and through the prism of how his father influenced him.  My interpretation is that the scene was written not as just lighthearted teasing, but a bit of a red flag, harbinger of more to come. 

[btho1776]

On 10/18/2017 at 9:43 AM, SunnyBeBe said:

Kate being pregnant.  OMG, this is one of the old standby storylines that the writers pull out when they are desperate for drama and excitement. It sounds good initially, but, then they have to figure out what to do with the characters and the aftermath.  It rarely works.  I mean....that's all they have to do with her?  

I wish they would go back to the consultant position for her character. She was great! She was confident. She had it together!

[ChromaKelly]

3 minutes ago, btho1776 said:

I wish they would go back to the consultant position for her character. She was great! She was confident. She had it together!

Same. That was the only episode I really liked Kate.

[debraran]

Someone at work mentioned how Kate didn't like Toby lighting a candle in past episode. I really don't remember that. I was thinking with Halloween and "life changing" things happening in promos, maybe that is how fire started. I've watched them all, sometimes more than once, but can't remember it all.

[qtpye]

10 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I agree that it might indicate a bit of insecurity on Jack's part.  He has always talked about Rebecca as though she was way out of his league.  I just don't think of "insecure," as such an awful thing to be.  I'll take a slightly insecure man over a cocky braggart any day.

 

8 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

Exactly, and we see that Jack is not secure in the relationship, maybe not secure in his own identity as a family man, especially later when Rebecca tries to strike out on her own with her singing.  Plus we know he struggles with alcohol.  I bet we see it more in the future, and through the prism of how his father influenced him.  My interpretation is that the scene was written not as just lighthearted teasing, but a bit of a red flag, harbinger of more to come. 

In"How I Met Your Mother" they said every couple has a reacher and a settler.  I think Jack feels that he is undeserving of Rebecca and the great life he has, mostly because his father has told him he is a loser.  He might even have a touch of imposter syndrome (where a person feels like they are undeserving of their success and it is just a matter of time before other see that they are an imposter).  I even speculated that being undeserving of Rebecca is probably something that gives him such a bond with Kate (who does not feel good enough to be Rebecca's daughter).

I should add these feelings are not Rebecca's fault.  It is obvious that she is crazy about Jack and thinks he is awesome. 

9 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

Our experiences do shade our interpretations. My husband and I have always joked around about attraction to movie stars - after all, it's not likely they'll ever be in your sphere and a threat. We rib each other about each other's attractions - so I saw that scene as a light hearted in joke that married couples often have. Of course, you have to be pretty secure in your relationship for that to work.

It is true that couples do joke with each other and it is usually not a big deal.  It really is not that serious in this scene, but it does probably tickle Jack's insecurity a little bit.

[methodwriter85]

12 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

My first thought was Rebecca was feeling frisky because Jack was still saying no to sex maybe but I guess this was not that era.  

I don't think Jack's very physically different from hunk age Travolta and Swayze.   They all three have the shaggy, muscley, dumb jock thing going on, to some extent.  

I think Jack/Milo is cast as the salt of the Earth, Pittsburgh blue-collar dad type. Nice strong body from his physical labor work, but nothing special. There are indications that other people on the show find him attractive, like the co-worker that hit on him circa 1996, but it feels very clear that Rebecca is seen as being way, way out of his league. Jack never gets referred to as being handsome or hot. Meanwhile, it's constantly been reiterated how beautiful Rebecca is.

I kind of wanted them to refer to Rocky V, although I guess that might have been Sylvester Stallone overkill. Ghost is another reference they could have done. Oh, well.

On one hand, the adoption storyline is nuanced and so far, well-written and well-acted. But on the other hand,, I really want to see the Big Three actually interact more.

Kate is a total mess, but we're supposed to think she's together enough to have a baby? Okay, show.

[Scarlett45]

59 minutes ago, methodwriter85 said:

 

13 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

My first thought was Rebecca was feeling frisky because Jack was still saying no to sex maybe but I guess this was not that era.  

I don't think Jack's very physically different from hunk age Travolta and Swayze.   They all three have the shaggy, muscley, dumb jock thing going on, to some extent.  

I think Jack/Milo is cast as the salt of the Earth, Pittsburgh blue-collar dad type. Nice strong body from his physical labor work, but nothing special. There are indications that other people on the show find him attractive, like the co-worker that hit on him circa 1996, but it feels very clear that Rebecca is seen as being way, way out of his league. Jack never gets referred to as being handsome or hot. Meanwhile, it's constantly been reiterated how beautiful Rebecca is.

 

While I think Mandy Moore is a very pretty woman (and with a "baby face" she is never going to look old), I don't see her as the gorgeous being her character is portrayed as. To me she looks like any naturally pretty woman you would meet out and about. (God given beauty rather than lots of makeup/styling or plastic surgery) She is pretty, Jack is attractive- I know the physical ideal of beauty matter more for women than men, but it's not like Jack is a troll. 

The dig about celebrities was odd to me, yeah I think most couples would joke about celebrity crushes. You're not ACTUALLY going to have sex with the person in the movie- the fantasy isn't a threat to your relationship. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

Jack never gets referred to as being handsome or hot. Meanwhile, it's constantly been reiterated how beautiful Rebecca is.

1990 Rebecca gets compared to aging 70s sex symbol Farrah by Jack, but Jack gets the nearly constant PERFECT MAN treatment by Rebecca.  

I feel like Miguel is the only one who really thinks she's out of his league.  

[SnarkySheep]

I'm a bit tired of seeing accidental pregnancies on TV shows - with characters that are well into adulthood, generally well educated and not exactly likely to have it happen. Yes, I understand that there are "oopsies" in real life as well. But according to the World of TV, you'd think it happened left and right. It's like a cop-out on TV, when they want to add storylines on a show but don't know how, so hey, let's add a pregnancy! (For example, Bones: a super-educated, super-practical scientist in her thirties wouldn't have used BC?) I'm having similar trouble believing that Kate and Toby would be in this situation.

[OtterMommy]

5 minutes ago, SnarkySheep said:

I'm a bit tired of seeing accidental pregnancies on TV shows - with characters that are well into adulthood, generally well educated and not exactly likely to have it happen. Yes, I understand that there are "oopsies" in real life as well. But according to the World of TV, you'd think it happened left and right. It's like a cop-out on TV, when they want to add storylines on a show but don't know how, so hey, let's add a pregnancy! (For example, Bones: a super-educated, super-practical scientist in her thirties wouldn't have used BC?) I'm having similar trouble believing that Kate and Toby would be in this situation.

I do agree with you about being tired of accidental pregnancies and I really didn't want to see one here.  However, I can actually see how it might make more sense in this scenario than most others on TV.  At Kate's weight, unless she has an IUD, many forms of birth control just aren't going to be as effective for her.  Early on, there was mention of condoms, but those are a) not infallible and b) sometimes used for disease control, not birth control.  So, if Kate and Toby were using condoms at one point for disease control, they may no longer be doing so and relying on another form of birth control.

Again, I'm really not a fan of this story line--or accidental story lines in general--but I can believe this one more than, say, Grey's Anatomy where doctors keep accidentally getting pregnant.

[CelticBlackCat]

I'm so not looking forward to the possible/probable heartbreak of miscarriage.  I hate that trope more than the ubiquitous accidental unplanned happy surprises.  It's a way to get that drama in there, but then no baby to have to endure and share screen time with, write stories for, and everyone just goes on their merry way after the very meaningful episode where life again takes an unexpected whoops-a-daisy.

I hate that.

[Katy M]

7 minutes ago, CelticBlackCat said:

I'm so not looking forward to the possible/probable heartbreak of miscarriage.  I hate that trope more than the ubiquitous accidental unplanned happy surprises.  It's a way to get that drama in there, but then no baby to have to endure and share screen time with, write stories for, and everyone just goes on their merry way after the very meaningful episode where life again takes an unexpected whoops-a-daisy.

I hate that.

I understand what you're saying, but on the other hand, depending on what you're going to use for statistics, at least 25% of pregnancies end in miscarriages.  So, I don't think you can call it a trope.  And, I don't think there is any reason to assume at this point that Kate's going to miscarry. She may.  She may not.  But, it seems silly to get upset over something that hasn't happened yet.

[CelticBlackCat]

1 minute ago, Katy M said:

I understand what you're saying, but on the other hand, depending on what you're going to use for statistics, at least 25% of pregnancies end in miscarriages.  So, I don't think you can call it a trope.  And, I don't think there is any reason to assume at this point that Kate's going to miscarry. She may.  She may not.  But, it seems silly to get upset over something that hasn't happened yet.

I'm not upset, I am merely speculating over fictional characters in a TV show that too many people are taking too seriously.  Just because IRL many pregnancies end in miscarriages, oftentimes before or right about the time the woman finds out she's pregnant, does not make it a pleasant thing to have to watch on TV as a plot line.  Also, please be aware that for some women who have experienced the real life heartache of a miscarriage, it's just a painful reminder.

[MaryPatShelby]

On 10/25/2017 at 0:11 PM, Katy M said:

I understand what you're saying, but on the other hand, depending on what you're going to use for statistics, at least 25% of pregnancies end in miscarriages.  So, I don't think you can call it a trope.  And, I don't think there is any reason to assume at this point that Kate's going to miscarry. She may.  She may not.  But, it seems silly to get upset over something that hasn't happened yet.

Granted, I haven't watched every TV show ever made, but I can only think of one off the top of my head that had a miscarriage (I'm not including soaps here), so I'm not personally convinced that it's a trope.  The surprise pregnancy that everyone is thrilled about is much more of a trope imho.

[CelticBlackCat]

The Convenient Miscarriage in TV by TV Tropes dot org

[Guest]

7 hours ago, CelticBlackCat said:

The Convenient Miscarriage in TV by TV Tropes dot org

Responding in the social issues thread...

[CelticBlackCat]

3 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Responding in the social issues thread...

Thank you!  :)

[MaryPatShelby]

On 10/28/2017 at 1:36 AM, CelticBlackCat said:

The Convenient Miscarriage in TV by TV Tropes dot org

Yikes!  I was so wrong.  I'm going to have to watch more TV; that's all there is to it.

[mochamajesty]

On ‎10‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 10:19 PM, SlovakPrincess said:

Deja felt betrayed by Beth telling Randall about their discussion -- about how Deja confided that she was stressed out and her hair fell out more when she was stressed.  She said it softly so it was hard to hear, but Deja's reaction was "She (Beth) told you what I said?!"    

Annie and Tess would probably take for granted that their parents discuss them and relay information to each other ... but Deja hasn't had an intact family and seems to have an especially hard time warming up to Randall.  

I think Randall is trying to reach out to Deja in the only way he can think of, by sharing his own vulnerabilities.  But it's not really having an impact.

Spot on. Deja flinched when Randall walked into the room - common sense should have told everyone that Randall needs to back off.

 

On ‎10‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 9:52 AM, monakane said:

I hate Toby.  What a controlling d-bag.  I wanted to reach through my tv and smack him.  He was totally trying to sabotage Kate.  

I love Beth.  My heart broke when Deja cut off her braids.  I'm glad they are being realistic about fostering.  I was afraid that after one bonding session with Deja everything would be ok.  Foster children often times have dealt with a lot of trauma and abuse that isn't easily overcome.  I like that they are showing that.

I read the rest of the thread after this, and sorry I still think that Toby is trying to sabotage Kate. 

I would rather they deal with the weight loss /sabotage storyline than the pregnancy.

Will someone explain to me how someone who weighs over 300 pounds is trying to hard to lose weight, or is losing weight too fast?

Is such a thing possible?

At her weight, she should lose weight fast anyway, and it should taper off as she gets smaller.

[debraran]

I thought it was odd Randall tried to shield her eyes which was similar to the shrimp thing, at the prison and she was like "what are you doing??"  Fast movements are not appreciated, remember? That was a little silly but it seems like they think you can't see the differences in their backgrounds without him having to point it out. Maybe Deja will be comic relief in some shows.

Yes, heavier people do lose weight, usually faster and then as they get closer to their goal, it slows down. It's not as noticeable though when you are "apple" shaped which Kate is.  I worked with a woman who was around 300 and one day she wore something more fitted and was around 200 and everyone was "Wow" but it had been gradual.

[Guest]

18 hours ago, mochamajesty said:

Will someone explain to me how someone who weighs over 300 pounds is trying to hard to lose weight, or is losing weight too fast?

Is such a thing possible?

They generally recommend no one eat under around 800 calories a day without medical supervision just to ensure proper nutrition and digestive functioning.  We can get caloric needs met from body fat but there are other nutritional needs to consider.  And extreme diets are also generally discouraged because they lead to binge eating and regaining.  But outside that, I don't know of anything.  

[biakbiak]

You can also over exercise and put stress on the body, particularly someone Kate's  size who starts a heavy exercise regimen from nothing.