S08.E13: Winter in Summer

[Mkay]

2 hours ago, HeySandyStrange said:

It seems pretty early to say how any of these kids are going to turn out imo. Yeah, we can make a fairly educated guess and say "Oh, Jace is definitely going to be a druggie felon and Aubree is going to be just fine," when the exact opposite might come true. I know ,overwhelmingly, kids with Jace's background and rearing tend to follow down the same dysfunctional path, but there is a possibility he and any of his siblings could turn out okay. If anything, Jace , Kaiser and Ensely might end up a lot tougher and more resilient then a sensitive kid like Isaac, who I see being jerked around emotionally by Kail in the future.

Me. My childhood was not normal. My parents got drunk every weekend and had parties at our house which usually ended in a huge fight.  I'm talking punching, tying up with phone cords, my mom being shot at 3 different times in my life that I would have witnessed and by three separate miracles something saved her.  The gun did go off two of those times and the bullet holes in my childhood home are a reminder. I once sat in the car while we were attempting to leave and having my father hit the window with a garden hoe while the windshield shattered as we are trying to get away.  It was an awful childhood. All that time I was still A honor roll, student counsel, band, GT. From elementary to High school that's all I knew. I also knew that this wasn't normal behavior and I knew I would NOT live that way. No one can say Jace isn't thinking the exact same way I was. He makes good grades. (Barb has posted his report card before) I was quiet, he seems to be, too.  I have so much hope for him, I don't ever say it. I sure don't want him to ever be in jenelles home. We heard them fighting in that rehearsal video.  As a kid that is terrifying.  I'm convinced it's 1000 times worse when cameras are not around. 

Im not looking for sympathy. It made me who I am.  I shared it because Jace isn't a lost cause.  Also, because I hate hearing Jenelle blame her childhood on her

behavior. I don't buy it. My parents aren't together but are completely different people today. I love them both.  Together it was like fuel and fire.  Kind of like David and Jenelle. 

 

Omg I rambled. Hahaha sorry 

2 hours ago, Booger666 said:

Janelle - Bitch is parroting to Barb everything David says about his ex and his kids.  Problem is Janelle is too fucking stupid to realize it is a completely different situation.  She is the stupidest asshole on TV, and that's saying something.

 

Chelsea - I can't fault her for telling Aubree the trip was planned for her and she should behave.  It was clear they got the celebrity treatment at the park and Aubree, or any kid that lucky, should behave appropriately and be thankful.

 

Kail - When she was talking about getting a pic of her with the Isaac at graduation bc she has a pic of them at her HS graduation 7 years ago all I could think of was this scene in Tommy Boy:

Tommy: Did you hear I finally graduated.
Richard: Yah, and just a shade under a decade too. 
Tommy: You know there are a lot of people who go to college for seven years.
Richard: I know. They're called doctors.

 

She's kind of looks like a female Chris Farley, too.  But uglier.

Lololololol Love it!

[ReadMeLattice]

1 hour ago, vmcd88 said:

Kailyn is one of those people who is a professional student.  She will never get a job.

Some of the folks in my PhD program got lightly teased because they took 7+ years to finish dissertations (most people take 4-6 in ours)...Kailyn would take 15 years and have 5 more Baby NoNames along the way. #momof8plusadoctorATE #drmiamidoesdrkail #phDateaMomof8

Edited September 27, 2017 by Lm2162

[ghoulina]

10 minutes ago, Mkay said:

m not looking for sympathy. It made me who I am.  I shared it because Jace isn't a lost cause.  Also, because I hate hearing Jenelle blame her childhood on her

behavior. I don't buy it. My parents aren't together but are completely different people today. I love them both.  Together it was like fuel and fire.  Kind of like David and Jenelle.

Your story is just one wonderful example of how people can overcome traumatic childhoods and not let it define them. 10 years ago I read The Glass Castle. I recently re-read it when the movie came out. My God. If you want to read about some smart, strong, plucky kids who overcame a MOUNTAIN of shit, I highly recommend that book. 

I'm not giving up on Jace. He may very well decide he's not going to let this shit fuck up his entire life. 

[GreatKazu]

Quote

And then people wonder why she speaks to him the way she does.

No excuse for her referring to him as a *igga. 

I don't wonder why she talks to him the way she does. I wonder why her WHOLE FUCKING FAMILY and everyone else has to speak to him at all? It is none of their fucking business. It is between Sweat hog #1 and Sweat hog #2. 

No damn reason either for putting crickets in his apartment. Had Luis done this to Briana? Oy:  http://starcasm.net/archives/376152

Briana should be above Luis and not be acting so damn childish and immature. She has two kids now. Causing damage to someone's apartment and then creating a situation that might affect the other tenants. Luis had to fork over money to resolve that situation because he is renting that place. The owner has ensure that situation is taken care of before it affects his/her tenants. Who the hell does she think she is? She laid with the guy.  He is apparently trash and a deadbeat so, then fucking leave him alone and get on with filing that damn child support. Petty ass bitch. 

 

Quote

Christ he couldn't even figure out how to handle the car seat without her.  He needs clear and specific direction

Sounds like Briana who has to have her mother, sister, friends, boss, co-workers, the apartment maintenance guy all talk on her behalf to her broken down baby daddies. Without them and their input, what would Briana do? 

Like I mentioned before, those two sweat hogs are now dealing with the consequences of their actions.  Poor Nova and Stella having to suffer for the consequences of these trifling adults around them. 

Now, Briana is counting down the days to get her body back in tip-top shape via Dr. Miami so she can go back to the club and seek out another loser. That video she posted on Twitter of herself twerking her ass in guys' faces and cameras at the club was removed. 

Edited September 28, 2017 by GreatKazu

[HeySandyStrange]

9 minutes ago, GreatKazu said:

Sounds like Briana who has to have her mother, sister, friends, boss, co-workers, the apartment maintenance guy all talk on her behalf to her broken down baby daddies. Without them and their input, what would Briana do? 

Like I mentioned before, those two sweat hogs are now dealing with the consequences of their actions.  Poor Nova and Stella having to suffer for the consequences of these trifling adults around them. 

Now, Briana is counting down the days to get her body back in tip-top shape via Dr. Miami so she can go back to the club and seek out another loser. That video she posted on Twitter of herself twerking her ass in guys' faces and cameras at the club was removed. 

Yes to this. Luis is an thoughtless, irresponsible dummy, but it isn't like Briana is much smarter or more mature. She is 23 year old mother of two who can't think far enough ahead of her next club lay and expects everyone to pick up the pieces for her. TBH I'm surprised she actually holds down a job outside of MTV, as helpless and coddled as she behaves. She can't act butthurt about her baby daddy is thoughtless and irresponsible when she didn't bother to get to know for more then 2 seconds before getting knocked up, any more then Luis can be because Bri is a whiny little brat. Both of them are losers and now the have 3 poor kids between them. It's not really a contest imho.

[woodscommaelle]

Did Ali order a Payday shake? What an old school candy bar!!  Love it!

[ReadMeLattice]

52 minutes ago, HeySandyStrange said:

Yes to this. Luis is an thoughtless, irresponsible dummy, but it isn't like Briana is much smarter or more mature. She is 23 year old mother of two who can't think far enough ahead of her next club lay and expects everyone to pick up the pieces for her. TBH I'm surprised she actually holds down a job outside of MTV, as helpless and coddled as she behaves. She can't act butthurt about her baby daddy is thoughtless and irresponsible when she didn't bother to get to know for more then 2 seconds before getting knocked up, any more then Luis can be because Bri is a whiny little brat. Both of them are losers and now the have 3 poor kids between them. It's not really a contest imho.

Shall we rename TM/2 The Biggest Loser? It's too bad that name is already taken.

[StatisticalOutlier]

21 hours ago, lovesnark said:

Instead of having a trial, they went to mediation (because they attorneys told Jenelle she didn't have a snowballs chance in hell) and they worked out a visitation schedule. B

But they showed a scene of Jenelle's lawyer telling her that she had a pretty good case; I remember this because my jaw dropped.

 

20 hours ago, druzy said:

This is the Power of Attorney that Jenelle executed at that time 

Any family lawyers around here?  I'm confused.  The document says it's based on N. C. Gen. Stat. §32A-8, which contains the definition of a durable power of attorney.  I've drafted powers of attorney in the estate planning context, and relating to a specific matter (like a real estate transaction), but it never occurred that it could function as a relinquishment of custody.  And I'm not sure this one does--it reads to me like the attorney in fact can act as a parent, and can make decisions and execute documents in Jenelle's stead, but it never says anything about actual custody, using the term "authority over" instead.  Is this just how they do things in North Carolina, or was there something subsequent that gave Barb custody?  This one was executed when Jace was six months old.

And does anyone know about this "Vahn" as the middle name?  I'm hoping it's a family name and not a regular old misspelling, although a misspelling that uses fewer letters would be refreshing.

 

4 hours ago, GreatKazu said:

@Jaclyn88 I have hope for that little guy because not all children grow up to be dysfunctional human beings when they are raised in toxic and dysfunctional homes. I am referring to Jenelle's home, not Barb's. I personally know two kids who  did exceptional in school and are very gifted in more ways than one. One graduated from high school at a young age and entered college before his 16th birthday. Both of these kids had drug addicts for mothers. They were hauled from place to place. It was assumed these kids would certainly end up gang members or junkies. 

Barb has Jace on the right path by putting him in therapy, she has him on his much-needed medication, and she gives him a supportive, loving, stable home.

If "stable" is defined as not moving house constantly, then I agree that the home Barb provides for Jace is stable.  But I use a more expansive definition of "stable," and it would never include exposing the kid to screaming and cursing and fighting and calling the police.  Or to Jenelle in general, if I'm being completely honest.

 

2 hours ago, ghoulina said:

Right. Although, I think maybe that time has past. The last few years, I don't get the sense that Barb really wants Jenelle to get Jace back. Even if she had ALL her shit together - it's just too late at this point. Jace is what? Eight? Who drags an 8-year-old away from the only mother he's known his entire life? 

Well Jenelle would, obviously.  But I agree--I don't think Barb wants to give up Jace no matter what.  When they went through this a couple of years ago, Barb was crying over the prospect of losing him, and I'm sure she hasn't grown more distant from him since then.

I think Barb was vague when setting out the conditions under which she would give Jace back to Jenelle, but I think that vagueness just gave Jenelle leeway in interpreting what was required.  Like "stable."  I'm sure Jenelle sees her life as stable now, with a house and a husband and other children grounding her where she is.  Her job is being on Teen Mom, for which she is amply compensated.  So in her mind, she's met the conditions.  And I believe she's actually said that on the show--I've got my life together, so why don't I have Jace?

And I think it's entirely possible that Barb would see that as stable, too, except for the fact that the husband Jenelle has doesn't pass muster to Barb. 

[SPLAIN]

3 hours ago, HeySandyStrange said:

Yes to this. Luis is an thoughtless, irresponsible dummy, but it isn't like Briana is much smarter or more mature. She is 23 year old mother of two who can't think far enough ahead of her next club lay and expects everyone to pick up the pieces for her. TBH I'm surprised she actually holds down a job outside of MTV, as helpless and coddled as she behaves. She can't act butthurt about her baby daddy is thoughtless and irresponsible when she didn't bother to get to know for more then 2 seconds before getting knocked up, any more then Luis can be because Bri is a whiny little brat. Both of them are losers and now the have 3 poor kids between them. It's not really a contest imho.

Fully agree.

I had no idea Bri's job was in the time share business. That might explain that "rental" home for the baby shower.

This thing about Luis having cheated IMO is pointless. Somewhere around here someone compared Luis and Bri to Jenelle and Nathan. I agree. Jenelle and Nathan thought after two months of being together it was a fine idea to have a baby and be a family. Bri and Luis had sex after knowing each other over drinks in a club and proceeded to go and have sex which resulted in a pregnancy. Never in a hundred years would I think it was a good idea to commit to a guy and expect to be a family with him after knowing him for a few hours in a club and sporadically thereafter for more sex. I don't care if he made the promise to her and promised her the world and put it in writing using his blood. He didn't take her down to city hall and marry her. Bri assumed the risk. She failed to look at the red flag. She knew of his track record concerning his other child. She is dead from the neck up. As quickly as he was to stick his dick into Briana, that is how quickly he would be to stick it in someone else who was offering herself up the way Briana seemed to be offering that night.

Bri and her family can cry me a river with this whole cheating "scandal" which is no scandal at all. What is scandalous is these two already had children to care for and raise, and there they are going out to have sex with random people without any sort of protection. I hope both have been tested for various STDs and HIV.

They are both clueless and obtuse people.

Quote

@StatisticalOutlier...I think Barb was vague when setting out the conditions under which she would give Jace back to Jenelle, but I think that vagueness just gave Jenelle leeway in interpreting what was required. 

More like Jenelle was likely not listening to Barb or she had selective hearing. When has Barb ever had a discussion where Jenelle was truly listening and paying attention to her mother without interrupting her or twisting her mother's words? What Barb said on camera doesn't mean that is all she ever said to Jenelle when they were away from the cameras. It didn't help matters when Jenelle's rocky life would bring in another boyfriend, baby, more drama, and violence. Barb's requirements likely include all the new changes that were brought forth. For example, Barb had to inform Jenelle she wasn't sending Jace to visit until Jenelle did something about the DV situation she was in with Nathan. Each time Barb felt like maybe things were looking up, here came Jenelle with new problems that would put a stop to any chance of Barb relinquishing Jace to her for partial custody. My head hurts just thinking about it.

Edited September 27, 2017 by SPLAIN

[druzy]

1 hour ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

But they showed a scene of Jenelle's lawyer telling her that she had a pretty good case; I remember this because my jaw dropped.

 

Any family lawyers around here?  I'm confused.  The document says it's based on N. C. Gen. Stat. §32A-8, which contains the definition of a durable power of attorney.  I've drafted powers of attorney in the estate planning context, and relating to a specific matter (like a real estate transaction), but it never occurred that it could function as a relinquishment of custody.  And I'm not sure this one does--it reads to me like the attorney in fact can act as a parent, and can make decisions and execute documents in Jenelle's stead, but it never says anything about actual custody, using the term "authority over" instead.  Is this just how they do things in North Carolina, or was there something subsequent that gave Barb custody?  This one was executed when Jace was six months old.

And does anyone know about this "Vahn" as the middle name?  I'm hoping it's a family name and not a regular old misspelling, although a misspelling that uses fewer letters would be refreshing.

 

If "stable" is defined as not moving house constantly, then I agree that the home Barb provides for Jace is stable.  But I use a more expansive definition of "stable," and it would never include exposing the kid to screaming and cursing and fighting and calling the police.  Or to Jenelle in general, if I'm being completely honest.

 

Well Jenelle would, obviously.  But I agree--I don't think Barb wants to give up Jace no matter what.  When they went through this a couple of years ago, Barb was crying over the prospect of losing him, and I'm sure she hasn't grown more distant from him since then.

I think Barb was vague when setting out the conditions under which she would give Jace back to Jenelle, but I think that vagueness just gave Jenelle leeway in interpreting what was required.  Like "stable."  I'm sure Jenelle sees her life as stable now, with a house and a husband and other children grounding her where she is.  Her job is being on Teen Mom, for which she is amply compensated.  So in her mind, she's met the conditions.  And I believe she's actually said that on the show--I've got my life together, so why don't I have Jace?

And I think it's entirely possible that Barb would see that as stable, too, except for the fact that the husband Jenelle has doesn't pass muster to Barb. 

That was the Power of Attorney Jenelle executed at the time of relinquishing her custody of Jace. It is not the court document relinquishing custody. 

[Christina]

I'm guessing that Jenelle didn't tell her attorney that she tested positive for marijuana with Ensley. I think the attorney probably told her she had a pretty good case for visitation, because she did, and Jenelle twisted it in her head. After the depositions, we saw her attorney speaking to her and then Jenelle gets in the car, called UBT and tells him how her attorney said she sees what Jenelle has been saying about Barb, and she and UBT were adamant that she would get full custody returned to her. Only the attorney didn't say that in the clip we saw, and in fact, made it sound like it was going to be an uphill battle. Jenelle only hears what she wants to hear.

Before the trial, her attorney would have received the information from Barb's attorney that Ensley tested positive for marijuana at birth, Jenelle and UBT tested positive for marijuana at a later time and refused to take any further tests, and that the CPS worker found Ensley in a room with the strong smell of marijuana. Her attorney would have also received the report from Jace's mental health treatment that said he was afraid of UBT and that Barb's home was the best place for Jace. 

Jenelle was always going to get visitation. It sounds like UBT isn't allowed at the pickups and dropoffs any longer or he would be driving Jenelle. I think she got to the courthouse with the expectation she would be walking out with custody, her attorney sat her down, showed her the evidence and told her to take the deadbeat parent visitation schedule that Barb's attorney was offering so that there was something in place to work off. Barb's attorney would have told her that Jenelle would be granted something and it was best to offer her a minimum visitation plan. Barb's major fault is that she refuses to see Jenelle for what she is, a sociopath, and blames her boyfriends for all the problems. 

1 hour ago, druzy said:

That was the Power of Attorney Jenelle executed at the time of relinquishing her custody of Jace. It is not the court document relinquishing custody. 

I was typing the same thing before it sent me the message that there was a new post, and you posted it over an hour ago. PTV's being mean to me : ( 

[FairyDusted]

20 hours ago, mamadrama said:

Even a little BSOJ (black screen of justice for the non-INTERVENTION viewers) after the show went off would've been nice. 

I  love you for working BSOJ into a sentence! Sheer GLEEEE!

[TheRealT]

2 hours ago, SPLAIN said:

More like Jenelle was likely not listening to Barb or she had selective hearing. When has Barb ever had a discussion where Jenelle was truly listening and paying attention to her mother without interrupting her or twisting her mother's words? What Barb said on camera doesn't mean that is all she ever said to Jenelle when they were away from the cameras. It didn't help matters when Jenelle's rocky life would bring in another boyfriend, baby, more drama, and violence. Barb's requirements likely include all the new changes that were brought forth. For example, Barb had to inform Jenelle she wasn't sending Jace to visit until Jenelle did something about the DV situation she was in with Nathan. Each time Barb felt like maybe things were looking up, here came Jenelle with new problems that would put a stop to any chance of Barb relinquishing Jace to her for partial custody. My head hurts just thinking about it.

I think that when she first took custody of Jace and for years afterward Barb genuinely hoped that Jenelle would get her life together and become a real parent to Jace. I think Barb expressed her "criteria" for handing over custody in somewhat unspecific terms, but encouraged Jenelle to go to school, get a job, get a nice place of her own with room for Jace, not be in an unstable relationship, etc., etc. Jenelle kind of went through the motions with some of that, but she was always basically unstable-- in an abusive relationship, doing drugs (of varying severity), being impulsive, prioritizing lots of other things over parenting, etc., etc. So Barb never reached a point where it seemed like a good idea to let Jenelle have Jace full-time and, in all fairness, I don't think Jenelle ever reached a point where she was like, "OK, I've done all that you've asked, let's make a plan to transition Jace to living with me..." Jenelle talked about wanting to get custody of Jace, but she kept having other priorities (relationship drama, school, moving, dealing with legal issues, having another kid, etc., etc., etc.) come up. I remember multiple instances of her saying, "I want to get Jace back, but I have to deal with X first..." And time kept passing and Jace kept getting older and more accustomed to Barb basically being his mother.

I think that, in Barb's ideal vision, Jenelle would have gotten off drugs; finished training for some viable non-MTV career and gotten a job; established a life as a single woman or gotten into a committed relationship with a nice, non-drug abusing, employed guy; etc. While she was working on all of that, she would have chosen to live very close to Barb (rather than in another state) so that she could spend as much time as possible with Jace and be involved in his daily life-- taking him to and from school, doctors' appointments, extra-curricular activities, etc. and just coming to Barb's some evenings to help him with his homework and put him to bed. After a while with all of that going on, it would have made sense to transition Jace to living with Jenelle. But, of course, Jenelle wasn't interested in or capable of living that kind of life on any level. Her vision was that she would achieve a very basic, superficial level of "normalcy" and "stability" and Barb would hand Jace over on demand without concern for him having to leave the only home he's ever known, his school, his extracurricular activities, etc., etc. to live with Jenelle and her abusive boyfriend. Otherwise, Jenelle would cry!

I think UBT exacerbated the situation by insisting that Barb "give Jace back" NOW because of his own issues with control and being denied custody of kids. I think he also probably doesn't like whatever MTV money Jace gets being in Barb's control, Jenelle having to pay child support to Barb, Barb getting paid more from MTV than he is, etc. He sees his relationship with Jenelle as his big chance at improving his socio-economic status, so I'm sure he resents any money he sees as potentially "his" going to someone else (especially a bitch like Barb). From his perspective, if Jenelle had full custody of Jace, he could treat Jace however he wanted (without him being able to whine to Barb about it); Jenelle wouldn't have to waste all that money on child support, karate lessons, therapy, and whatever other bullshit expenses Barb came up with; Jace could help out with chores around the house and looking after his bitch brother rather than being spoiled and just playing all the time; Barb would be cut out of the show; he'd be in control of Jace's MTV money; etc.; etc.; etc.

[GreatKazu]

Quote

Jenelle having to pay child support to Barb

@TheRealT Jenelle hasn't paid child support other than the measly amount she was once paying years ago. 

[TheRealT]

3 minutes ago, GreatKazu said:

@TheRealT Jenelle hasn't paid child support other than the measly amount she was once paying years ago. 

My understanding (from what Barb and Jenelle said on a reunion show) is that Jenelle was court-mandated to pay child support at one point, but they made a private agreement for support, which Jenelle was paying and with which Barb was satisfied. I don't see how Jenelle would get away with not paying child support when she has been involved in the family court system recently and she has a documented 6-figure income.

[GreatKazu]

9 minutes ago, TheRealT said:

My understanding (from what Barb and Jenelle said on a reunion show) is that Jenelle was court-mandated to pay child support at one point, but they made a private agreement for support, which Jenelle was paying and with which Barb was satisfied. I don't see how Jenelle would get away with not paying child support when she has been involved in the family court system recently and she has a documented 6-figure income.

The order was suspended. It was for the amount of $125 a month. http://hollywoodlife.com/2013/12/02/jenelle-evans-child-support-payments-suspended-barbara-evans/

Jenelle has not paid money since then. 

MTV checks are not garnished for child support since the cast members are paid once a year. If they were garnished for support, there wouldn't be so many deadbeat parents on this show such as Adumb and Amber. There wouldn't be cast members owing back taxes such as what happened to Leah, Maci, Amber, and Kail. 

Edited September 28, 2017 by GreatKazu

[salvame]

On 9/26/2017 at 10:26 AM, druzy said:

On 9/26/2017 at 9:58 AM, jumper sage said:

Was I the only one who felt sorry for Noah at the aquarium?

I did too. He looked so disappointed when they only allowed Aubree in the pool area.

That level of visit with Winter is a special arrangement with the staff down there. It is usually for people who have gone through personal challenges similar to Winter's on their own, and terminally ill children.  You would think they would include Noah in this activity, but he's not a TM2 staple, so if he did get to do anything, they probably didn't shoot footage of him. Sadly, even the interactive parts of these types of programs are very scripted and have a lot of "safety" measures to protect the public from incidents that could become lawsuits.  (not being able to touch the turtle, hands behind the back for the pelican, etc.)  I absolutely loved how Aubree knew everything about the Dolphin Tail actors.

If she wants to hold a turtle, they better start saving their MTV pennies for a trip to Grand Cayman, where they have a turtle farm/resort. I have a photo holding a tiny baby sea turtle.

Just don't tell her what their destination will be!

Spoiler

 

[KittyKat133]

18 hours ago, Calm81 said:

I had third degree reading with all THREE of my pregnancies. People wouldn't understand why I couldn't still walk comfortably after one week. They had me going to SEVERAL billirubin appointments for my kids for jaundice after their births. No proper rest. The PAIN us moms go through. Men are lucky in this aspect.

Omg it's the WORST! I didn't heal for at least six months. I'm freaking out bc my doctor told me today that the baby I am carrying now is going to be over 9lbs. This little guy better slide out nice and easy!!

14 hours ago, AirQuotes said:

I think older siblings being present for birth is just fine for families who want to do that.  That's the kind of thing that a family would do who live an open, nurturing, natural, holistic lifestyle.  I'm very much an advocate for midwives and home births.  

BUT!  The coven isn't that type of family!    They scared the shit out of poor little Nova over her preschool graduation so bad that she cried the entire time.  If the coven can make something as cheerful and happy as preschool graduation sound horrible and scary then imagine childbirth. 

This was exactly my point. I couldn't have said it better. 

[salvame]

On 9/26/2017 at 7:57 PM, Quilty said:

On 9/25/2017 at 10:10 PM, Brooklynista said:

Sadly I would have asked as well. We plan our vacations around when the sea turtles come on land to lay/bury their eggs in Cancun. Its really something to witness. 

I would LOVE to do that!

You can do it in FL - it is awesome, but you have to play by the rules for the safety of the turtles.

[heatherchandler]

19 hours ago, GreatKazu said:

 

No damn reason either for putting crickets in his apartment. Had Luis done this to Briana? Oy:  http://starcasm.net/archives/376152

 

Oh my GOD I did not know about this.  I am seriously disgusted.  Who thinks using living creatures in this regard is funny?  She is f-ing psycho.  I used to feel a little bit bad for her, but I am now going to fast forward through all of her segments, and I am also hoping she is off after this season.  She is sick!  

[GreatKazu]

26 minutes ago, heatherchandler said:

Oh my GOD I did not know about this.  I am seriously disgusted.  Who thinks using living creatures in this regard is funny?  She is f-ing psycho.  I used to feel a little bit bad for her, but I am now going to fast forward through all of her segments, and I am also hoping she is off after this season.  She is sick!  

She acts like she is the victim all the time. Don't we have enough of these already on the show (Kail, Jenelle, Leah)?  This part burns me up: 

And crickets were apparently just the part that Briana was willing to fess up to. She mentions at one point that she “also put some other stuff in his house but I don’t want peta after me.” Later she posted a photo of a very non-wild looking large mouse or small rat. 

You know, there are other people who live in that apartment building. That rat was  loose on the property. Briana posts she doesn't want PETA after her, but decides to post this shit on a public media page. What is it with these fucking psycho bitches on this show and their attitude towards animals? If you fear PETA, that should be a red flag (again) that what you are doing is wrong. How is it people think they can do this shit and find it funny? How about taking the so-called cheating as a positive sign that it is better to know now than down the road after living with him for a year. 

Luis trusted her to give her a key to his apartment. That doesn't give her the right to enter into his premises and do what she did while also creating a nuisance and problem for tenants in that building. Trifling bitch. 

Wish @MTV was able to film and show what I did to Luis after I found out he cheated ????

TWEETER: Was it legal?

No lol

I had keys to his house and bought over 500 crickets and just let them free inside his room…

He still has no idea it was me but I guess he’ll find out now

Then a few weeks later I went back and did the same thing but this time I used baby crickets

Due to her revenge stunt, Luis had to move out. 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2017 by GreatKazu

[heatherchandler]

1 hour ago, GreatKazu said:

 

TWEETER: Was it legal?

No lol

 

 

And she says it is not legal, and LOL???  That is not funny.  She should be arrested.

And here I was actually hoping they get rid of Chelsea for her.  I change my mind, I will take boring aquarium-goer to sadistic asshole any day!

[Christina]

14 hours ago, TheRealT said:

My understanding (from what Barb and Jenelle said on a reunion show) is that Jenelle was court-mandated to pay child support at one point, but they made a private agreement for support, which Jenelle was paying and with which Barb was satisfied. I don't see how Jenelle would get away with not paying child support when she has been involved in the family court system recently and she has a documented 6-figure income.

That article took the situation out of context and wrote their opinion of what happened. You are correct. It was cleared up later. Barb asked the court to not be involved in the collection of the child support, in which Jenelle was in arrears, because some of the money that Jenelle would earn from Teen Mom was going to go to Barb directly from MTV. Jenelle tweeted, then deleted (of course), that her pay was split with Barb, and they both confirmed it later. She doesn't pay a monthly amount but Barb is paid more than say Randy. 

Their story is a true teen mom story, with the grandparent raising the grandchild and Barb should receive the $250,000 while Jenelle receives the $33,000 supporting cast member pay, like Matt. 

[BitterApple]

Note to Briana: It isn't the rat's fault your trashy behavior got you knocked up by a loser. Please leave defenseless creatures out of your revenge schemes. File for child support and cut your losses.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

As someone who owns a rental property, I'm seething with rage at Briana for putting crickets (and a rat? and who knows what else?) in Luis's apartment. LUIS DOESN'T HAVE TO PAY THE EXTERMINATOR. His innocent landlord does. (Also, not cool to do to the crickets and rat. Or the neighbors.) 

[GreatKazu]

45 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Note to Briana: It isn't the rat's fault your trashy behavior got you knocked up by a loser. Please leave defenseless creatures out of your revenge schemes. File for child support and cut your losses.

Preach. 

37 minutes ago, MyPeopleAreNordic said:

As someone who owns a rental property, I'm seething with rage at Briana for putting crickets (and a rat? and who knows what else?) in Luis's apartment. LUIS DOESN'T HAVE TO PAY THE EXTERMINATOR. His innocent landlord does. (Also, not cool to do to the crickets and rat. Or the neighbors.) 

I own rentals myself. Even if I didn't, I would still be pissed. As a property owner, I expect people to treat the property with care. Briana doesn't give two shits about poor defenseless creatures except to use them in her plot to seek revenge. She LOLs about the situation. Yeah, cuz it is not her concern. She thinks it is hilarious Luis wasn't getting sleep because of the noise the crickets were making. What about when those crickets made their way out of the apartment and into the rest of the building? What about the poor families that had to endure that shit? That poor rat - whether you like them or not - was purchased from a pet store. It was meant to be a pet. It was released where it would surely end up dying. Briana is a cruel mutherfucking bitch. 

Karma, do your thing. 

Edited September 28, 2017 by GreatKazu

[Pepper Mostly]

On 9/27/2017 at 2:27 PM, vmcd88 said:

Kailyn is one of those people who is a professional student.  She will never get a job.

You know how, when you want a mental health day, you set the stage at work for a couple of days before hand? You complain about a scratchy throat or say you're feeling achy? Then when you call in sick it sounds legit? That's Kail, saying she's going to go for her Master's. Setting the stage now for not looking for a job. She'll spend at least a year "investigating programs" (mostly in places like Hawaii), a year prepping for the GMAT's or GRE's, a year "applying and going to interviews". Before she finds some podunk crap school that will take Miss Academically Gifted Not. Then she'll defer for a year, because she will surely be knocked up again.

[Birdee]

So the last few months have been super busy with work being all worky and everything else being full of adulting so I'm just now getting caught up on the season and I have some questions...

Do we know where Jo stands with his custody request? I'm glad he finally grew some and took steps to get more official time with Isaac.

Is there an update on poor Ensley's head (and wonky legs) and her fixed, blank stare? What about Doris' move to get custody of The Roll?

What's the over/under on Dave and Jenelle's marriage lasting through the holiday season? I'm betting they're done by Thanksgiving myself.

Man, I missed y'all!

[Tatum]

Hey, are there not Teen Mom 2 recaps anymore?

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

48 minutes ago, Birdee said:

What's the over/under on Dave and Jenelle's marriage lasting through the holiday season? I'm betting they're done by Thanksgiving myself.

If Jenelle is or gets pregnant soon, I give them until a few months after baby #4 is born.

If she's not (& doesn't become so soon), I'm saying sometime in late winter/early spring. She'll want the Pintrest-perfect playing happy Christmastime family pics for social media. Sometime after Christmas would be my guess for a break-up....if she wants nice Valentines Day pics/posts, maybe until after Valentines Day. 

Edited September 28, 2017 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[StatisticalOutlier]

19 hours ago, SPLAIN said:

More like Jenelle was likely not listening to Barb or she had selective hearing. When has Barb ever had a discussion where Jenelle was truly listening and paying attention to her mother without interrupting her or twisting her mother's words? What Barb said on camera doesn't mean that is all she ever said to Jenelle when they were away from the cameras.

By that same token, the discussions we see where Jenelle isn't listening to her mother don't mean that is all Jenelle has ever done when they were away from the cameras.

I wouldn't be surprised if she never listens, but I don't know that, and I'm not sure it's fair to assume that what we see on camera is 100% of how one person acts but at the same time assume it's not the complete story when it comes to another person.

I'm not a Jenelle defender at all, but it does bother me that everything she does is seen as bad and evil, while when Barbara does something stupid like suggest a family getaway when Jenelle is freshly resentful about not having custody, it's a mis-step, or slightly premature.  It could also be seen as baiting someone with a known tendency to fly off the handle.

 

16 hours ago, TheRealT said:

I think that when she first took custody of Jace and for years afterward Barb genuinely hoped that Jenelle would get her life together and become a real parent to Jace. I think Barb expressed her "criteria" for handing over custody in somewhat unspecific terms, but encouraged Jenelle to go to school, get a job, get a nice place of her own with room for Jace, not be in an unstable relationship, etc., etc.

That's where it's tough.  If you're setting terms and conditions, you want them to be vague enough to give yourself some wiggle room, but it's unfair to expect a person to know what to do if you don't make it clear what she has to do.

 

Quote

I think that, in Barb's ideal vision, Jenelle would have gotten off drugs; finished training for some viable non-MTV career and gotten a job; established a life as a single woman or gotten into a committed relationship with a nice, non-drug abusing, employed guy; etc. While she was working on all of that, she would have chosen to live very close to Barb (rather than in another state) so that she could spend as much time as possible with Jace and be involved in his daily life-- taking him to and from school, doctors' appointments, extra-curricular activities, etc. and just coming to Barb's some evenings to help him with his homework and put him to bed.

I agree that was Barb's ideal vision, but at some point, reality has to come into play, and that's one of the main beefs I have with Barb--her refusal to accept reality, and her wishy washiness.

This goes waaaay back to when Jace was first born, and she told Jenelle she wouldn't take care of him, and of course she did.  And time after time, she would issue a threat, and not follow through.  How may times did she kick Jenelle out, and then let her back in?  This doesn't absolve Jenelle of blame, but it does give her a clear message that she can do whatever she wants, as long as she's willing to put up with some grief from Barb, but after that blows over, it's back to business as usual. 

If a condition of giving custody of Jace to Jenelle was that Jenelle live close to Barb, then Barb needed to tell her that, and let Jenelle decide whether to comply or not.  I don't think it would have been asking too much for Barbara to take her ideal vision and put it into discrete requirements, if for no other reason that for her to clarify for herself exactly what she's expecting.

I think it's simply unfair to have a vision and hope someone does what you're envisioning.  They deserve to know what's expected of them, and they also "deserve" to suffer repercussions when they don't comply.  That's why I'm a fan of deferred adjudication and probation--you fucked up, and here's exactly what is expected of you to take care of it.  It's all on you now.

[SPLAIN]

21 minutes ago, Tatum said:

Hey, are there not Teen Mom 2 recaps anymore?

Unfortunately, no. Not sure why.  I miss those recaps.

21 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

But they showed a scene of Jenelle's lawyer telling her that she had a pretty good case; I remember this because my jaw dropped.

 

If "stable" is defined as not moving house constantly, then I agree that the home Barb provides for Jace is stable.  But I use a more expansive definition of "stable," and it would never include exposing the kid to screaming and cursing and fighting and calling the police.  Or to Jenelle in general, if I'm being completely honest.

 

You may have to help me here because I sure don't recall any scenes where Barb was at her own home and had to call the police. I know the scenes where police were called happened at Jenelle's property. The last incident - going by my sometimes faulty memory here - had to do with Barb driving up to Jenelle's home and finding the children outside with no adults in sight. When she went inside to find out what was the situation, she found Jenelle locked in her room. She had David yelling at her and telling her to leave. Barb was concerned about her daughter. She most likely thought there was a DV situation occurring or that something was wrong with Jenelle such as being under the influence. Barb was pretty upset and David didn't help the situation. He then called the police on Barb. 

When Barb was confronted at a restaurant with a camera in her face and being videotaped by David while Jenelle was accusing her mother of being inebriated, I didn't see her phone the police although I wish she had.

Not sure what that has to do with Barb and her home. She does provide a home for her grandson. She is there every single day when he wakes up and she is there when he goes to bed. It is she who tends to him when he is ill. She is the one who ensures he is seeing a therapist and is taking his medication. She is the one who is there helping him with his homework including making him costumes for his school projects. She is the one who worries about his safety. She is the one providing for him in every way that a parent should provide a child. It wasn't her home where CPS has gone to investigate. It isn't Barb who has been accused of smoking pot in the presence of children.

I don't think Jenelle would ever do what is required of her because she doesn't care to.

Edited September 28, 2017 by SPLAIN

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

Ya'll....here's the thing about Briana. She doesn't want an involved dad for her kids.  She wants to be the victim and hold the baby over the guy's head as something that he can only access through her and at her whim. 

She picks unemployed losers. She picked Luis, who has another daughter he doesnt see. She doesn't want a guy who will ask for 50/50 custody and take the baby to his home where baby will have her own room, belongings, etc. Briana wants the baby to live with her and baby daddy to have to come "visit" his child (and therefore, her and her family). When he comes to visit, she and the coven will spend the whole time criticzing him for not knowing how to properly care for a baby & treat him like an idiot.  Briana will lord visiting the baby over his head, complain he doesn't do enough, and then she and the coven will harp at him the entire time he's visiting the baby.  Devoin is a loser and trash, but that's what she did to him, and what she's most likely doing/will to do to Luis.

Also, how is mommy going to fawn over her and how is Brittany going to get defensive for her if she has a supportive, involved father to her child? Briana wants to be the victim & wants the coven to baby her. 

Briana doesn't want her babies' daddies to step up.  She (perhaps subconsciously) picks losers & then tries her best push them away if they make an effort. 

Edited September 29, 2017 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[TheRealT]

14 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

I agree that was Barb's ideal vision, but at some point, reality has to come into play, and that's one of the main beefs I have with Barb--her refusal to accept reality, and her wishy washiness.

This goes waaaay back to when Jace was first born, and she told Jenelle she wouldn't take care of him, and of course she did.  And time after time, she would issue a threat, and not follow through.  How may times did she kick Jenelle out, and then let her back in?  This doesn't absolve Jenelle of blame, but it does give her a clear message that she can do whatever she wants, as long as she's willing to put up with some grief from Barb, but after that blows over, it's back to business as usual. 

If a condition of giving custody of Jace to Jenelle was that Jenelle live close to Barb, then Barb needed to tell her that, and let Jenelle decide whether to comply or not.  I don't think it would have been asking too much for Barbara to take her ideal vision and put it into discrete requirements, if for no other reason that for her to clarify for herself exactly what she's expecting.

I think it's simply unfair to have a vision and hope someone does what you're envisioning.  They deserve to know what's expected of them, and they also "deserve" to suffer repercussions when they don't comply.  That's why I'm a fan of deferred adjudication and probation--you fucked up, and here's exactly what is expected of you to take care of it.  It's all on you now.

I get what you're saying, but it's hard for me to see this situation as Barb being "unfair" to Jenelle in any way. Barb is not DSS, where it is reasonable to expect there to be clear-cut rules and requirements. She's human and has been making things up as she goes along with Jenelle and Jace. If Jenelle had ever been serious about "getting Jace back," it was 100% her responsibility to figure out how to make that happen. If Barb was being unreasonable or uncooperative, Jenelle should have taken her to court (as she eventually did after 7-8 years, when it was too late). Jenelle never HAD to sign custody of Jace over in the first place; she CHOSE to do so because it was easier for her. Barb was threatening to get the court to take Jace away from her, but the reality is, if Jenelle had been willing or able to get her shit halfway together at the time she probably would have retained custody, even if DSS opened an investigation on her. Jenelle has basically had a lawyer on retainer for years to deal with her criminal legal issues and she has had plenty of money to pay a lawyer to tell her exactly what she needed to do to get custody of Jace, whether Barb agreed or not. Jenelle CHOSE not to do anything more than say, "I want to get Jace back, but [fill in other priority]" in her TM2 voiceovers FOR YEARS. THAT'S why Barb now has permanent custody of Jace, not because Barb has been unclear or unfair about informing Jenelle what she wanted or expected in order to "give Jace back." 

As for Barb not being consistent and following through on threats of consequences for Jenelle when she makes bad choices, I don't think it has always been that simple and I get that Jenelle is Barb's daughter and she loves her. When she told Jenelle she wouldn't take care of baby Jace, she could hardly just ignore Jace if Jenelle left him in her home and she couldn't, in good conscience, let Jenelle drag him off to some crack house or wherever. So she took care of Jace herself. Her making Jenelle sign over legal custody was giving Jenelle a consequence; she could have just taken care of Jace while allowing Jenelle to keep legal custody (as many grandparents in her situation do). I think she wanted to prevent Jenelle from taking Jace to a crack house and also hoped that signing away custody of her child would be a wake up call for Jenelle. Obviously, that didn't work out, but at least Jace was safe and cared for.  

[Bblack3]

Every time Jenelle mentions "she took Jace away from me", I wish a little video box would pop up showing Jenelle signing whatever document she signed back when Jace was a baby.

Coincidence that Mama Dawn hasn't been shown so far this season and although the "Life Coach" stuff was cringe-worthy, Leah seems to be pulling herself together?

[ghoulina]

43 minutes ago, MyPeopleAreNordic said:

Ya'll....here's the thing about Briana. She doesn't want an involved dad for her kids.  She wants to be the victim and hold the baby over the guy's head as something that he can only access through her and at her whim. 

Yessss. This is all the Coven knows. Can you imagine how their heads would spin if Luis got some amazing job, an apartment across the street, starting dropping diapers off every day? What WOULD they talk about????

[DangerousMinds]

iMO Jenelle has always known that Barb expected her to get a job that was NOT MTV.

[TeenMomAngerMgmt]

44 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

Yessss. This is all the Coven knows. Can you imagine how their heads would spin if Luis got some amazing job, an apartment across the street, starting dropping diapers off every day? What WOULD they talk about????

Luis really shouldn't give a fuck what they think. That's the problem. Maybe Brittany and Roxanne are being unfair, but that shouldn't stop Luis from stepping up and doing the right thing. If you do what you're supposed to (honor child support agreements, get your visitation like you're supposed to, stay active and involved, etc.) they can't do or say shit to you. Stella will benefit and that's the only thing that matters. I do not buy for a second that Brittany or Roxanne have the power to "push away" a man who truly wants to be an involved parent in his child's life. 

[londonfroglet]

5 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Note to Briana: It isn't the rat's fault your trashy behavior got you knocked up by a loser. Please leave defenseless creatures out of your revenge schemes. File for child support and cut your losses.

As someone who has known, loved, and been a mom to nearly a dozen ratties over the years, this piece of shit is dead to me. I hope that little angel found peace somewhere, and I hope Briana finds herself between a grizzly and her cubs.

[mamadrama]

On 9/27/2017 at 2:44 PM, CaughtOnTape said:

 

Trucking school?  Really?  WTF?  That's what he's chosen after months of "looking".  Where is he looking?  Reminds me of Eddie in Christmas vacation "Ellen says he's holding out for a management position".   This genius decides that the best thing to do with a new baby on the way is to get a job that takes him away for 50% of the time?  *thumbs up*  Smart thinkin' there Einstein.  Briana, understandably, was gobsmacked at this.  He keeps telling her he wants to be around for the kid, but he goes for this as the job he's been looking so hard for?  Makes total sense.  Idiot.

 

What's wrong with trucking school? I tried to get MY husband to go for it when our son was born. Good pay, good benefits, etc. 

Seems like a lose-lose situation with Brianna to me:

Luis gets a good job but it keeps him on the road=he's a deadbeat dad. 

Luis stays around Orlando and gets a low paying job with poor benefits= he's a deadbeat dad. 

If she doesn't think that he's going to step up and "be there" for her and kid anyway, then what does it matter if he's on the road all the time? At least he'll have an income to help them out and to send home. 

When I was in my 20s, young, married, and had a newborn then wanted my husband there with me all the time. Now that I am pushing 40 and we've lived through some lean times, I would much rather have him working a job he loves, making good money that makes him feel good about himself, and excellent benefits. Even with a debilitating health condition, I am still perfectly capable of handling our kids myself. Security and stability, however, are things that don't come easily and I no longer take them for granted. 

[StatisticalOutlier]

3 hours ago, SPLAIN said:

Not sure what that has to do with Barb and her home. She does provide a home for her grandson. She is there every single day when he wakes up and she is there when he goes to bed. It is she who tends to him when he is ill. She is the one who ensures he is seeing a therapist and is taking his medication. She is the one who is there helping him with his homework including making him costumes for his school projects. She is the one who worries about his safety. She is the one providing for him in every way that a parent should provide a child.

Sure, she does all those things, but that's not ALL she does.  She also fights with Jenelle in front of Jace, and if the issue is whether someone provides a "stable home," I wouldn't feel comfortable with the argument that fights don't matter if they don't happen in that particular home (and I do recall fights that did happen in Barb's home). 

Drunk driving happens outside the house, too, but I don't think someone who drives her kids around when she's drunk would be considered providing a stable home.

And I'm not picking on only Barb and Jenelle--I think the coven is every bit as bad.  Sure, they're not screaming and fighting with the kid in the middle, but man, they are exposing Nova to a lot of conversations that she has no business hearing.  Is it a matter for the Department of Child Welfare?  Of course not.  But is it harmful and do I wish they wouldn't do it?  Yes.

 

Quote

It wasn't her home where CPS has gone to investigate. It isn't Barb who has been accused of smoking pot in the presence of children.

 

I'll be glad when pot is legalized across the U.S., so having an after-dinner drink can be as vilified as smoking a joint, and it won't matter if you happen to be in North Carolina as opposed to Colorado.  I personally detest the smell of that shit, and wish people didn't need to alter their consciences in the first place, but people are going to people.  From experience, I'd prefer a potential abuser use marijuana rather than alcohol. 

Yes, I know it's illegal in North Carolina, but a look into the history of its illegalization opened my eyes.

 

2 hours ago, TheRealT said:

As for Barb not being consistent and following through on threats of consequences for Jenelle when she makes bad choices, I don't think it has always been that simple and I get that Jenelle is Barb's daughter and she loves her. When she told Jenelle she wouldn't take care of baby Jace, she could hardly just ignore Jace if Jenelle left him in her home and she couldn't, in good conscience, let Jenelle drag him off to some crack house or wherever. So she took care of Jace herself. Her making Jenelle sign over legal custody was giving Jenelle a consequence; she could have just taken care of Jace while allowing Jenelle to keep legal custody (as many grandparents in her situation do). I think she wanted to prevent Jenelle from taking Jace to a crack house and also hoped that signing away custody of her child would be a wake up call for Jenelle. Obviously, that didn't work out, but at least Jace was safe and cared for.  

I understand Barb's motivations, but really think that stringing Jenelle along was a bad call.  I think Barb just didn't want to believe that Jenelle wouldn't get her shit together, and she let that interfere with what Jace really needed, and likewise didn't serve Jenelle well, either (although I know most people don't care, but Barb does).

And here's what I'm scared of now.  If something does happen to Jace while in Jenelle's/David's care, if I were in Barb's shoes, I would feel inconsolable guilt because I allowed it to happen by settling the custody case.  You can say that Jenelle was going to be given visitation no matter what (although I'm not sure why that's a slam dunk), but at least if a judge heard and weighed the evidence and decided that Jenelle gets visitation, I would be able to tell myself, "I did everything I could to protect him, but the judge made a decision." 

And knowing Jenelle, she'd somehow make it Barb's fault, too--another reason I think Barb's crazy not to want to have a judge issue a ruling. 

I have some experience in estate planning, and know that it's easiest when an executor can wrap up the estate without court involvement, but there are situations where the hassle of having a judge sign off on everything is worth it because it's an ORDER by a JUDGE, so "All y'all can take it up with the judge yourself, or shut up."  I think Barb would have been well served to have a higher authority all along, for the same reason--don't like it Jenelle?  Complain to the judge.

 

 

2 minutes ago, mamadrama said:

What's wrong with trucking school? I tried to get MY husband to go for it when our son was born. Good pay, good benefits, etc. 

That was presumably a while back.  I'm tangentially involved in the trucking industry, and I'm not sure that's where I'd put my hopes today if I wanted a 40-year career.  But if Luis could get out of school without crushing debt and work even a few years at it, he'd be way ahead of most of this pack.

[GreatKazu]

Quote

I'll be glad when pot is legalized across the U.S., so having an after-dinner drink can be as vilified as smoking a joint, and it won't matter if you happen to be in North Carolina as opposed to Colorado.  I personally detest the smell of that shit, and wish people didn't need to alter their consciences in the first place, but people are going to people.  From experience, I'd prefer a potential abuser use marijuana rather than alcohol. 

THC was discovered in Ensley's system. A newborn should not be born with THC in its system. Nor should children be exposed to any smoke of any kind whether it is marijuana or cigarettes. No one here has an issue with pot as much as they do with the people who abuse it and then don't take care of their personal business such as caring for their children.  CPS intervened due to what was discovered at Ensley's birth, not because two adults smoke pot in their home away from children.  Alcohol is legal, but a newborn shouldn't have it in its system. 

 

Quote

Drunk driving happens outside the house, too, but I don't think someone who drives her kids around when she's drunk would be considered providing a stable home.

Barb wasn't drunk driving. Where did that come from? 

It is Jenelle who is likely driving while under the influence while children are in her car. 

As far as I am concerned, and apparently many others believe, Barb is the stable force in that child's life. No one has ever claimed she is a hero, martyr, saint, or any of the other descriptions that have been thrown around. She is a human being with faults. She is also Jace's mother as far as I am concerned. 

 

3 hours ago, TeenMomAngerMgmt said:

Luis really shouldn't give a fuck what they think. That's the problem. Maybe Brittany and Roxanne are being unfair, but that shouldn't stop Luis from stepping up and doing the right thing. If you do what you're supposed to (honor child support agreements, get your visitation like you're supposed to, stay active and involved, etc.) they can't do or say shit to you. Stella will benefit and that's the only thing that matters. I do not buy for a second that Brittany or Roxanne have the power to "push away" a man who truly wants to be an involved parent in his child's life. 

It can't be said enough. Luis and Briana should be the only two discussing their issues. The rest of the wolf pack need to butt the fuck out. 

Edited September 29, 2017 by GreatKazu

[salvame]

On 9/27/2017 at 2:34 AM, KittyKat133 said:

Im not saying there is anything wrong with making that a concious choice to have your kids there, I'm saying to me it seemed like nova was too young, not properly informed, and under the guidance of the coven it did not seem like a good decision because they OVER expose her to everything without ever asking her wishes.

Having children present for the birth of a sibling doesn't really bother me, (though I think it could be distracting for the mother in childbirth).  Nova wasn't really engaged in the process - seemed to be doing her own thing. What bothers me the most with the coven is how freely they dis both baby daddies, which of course sends Brianna into a river of tears, all in front of Nova. With Brianna's constant litany of how she has to do everything on her own, yadda yadda, Nova is going to be dealing with a world of guilt. I just can't with them constantly smack talking in front of the poor kid.

[salvame]

5 hours ago, MyPeopleAreNordic said:

Briana doesn't want her babies's daddies to step up.  She (perhaps subconsciously) picks losers & then tries her best push them away if they make an effort. 

sometimes, they're not even losers - the mother is just looking for a sperm donor, then doesn't want them to step up because she would lose a certain amount of control (and manipulation).

Quote

Ya'll....here's the thing about Briana. She doesn't want an involved dad for her kids.  She wants to be the victim and hold the baby over the guy's head as something that he can only access through her and at her whim. 

She picks unemployed losers. She picked Luis, who has another daughter he doesnt see. She doesn't want a guy who will ask for 50/50 custody and take the baby to his home where baby will have her own room, belongings, etc. Briana wants the baby to live with her and baby daddy to have to come "visit" his child (and therefore, her and her family). When he comes to visit, she and the coven will spend the whole time criticzing him for not knowing how to properly care for a baby & treat him like an idiot.  Briana will lord visiting the baby over his head, complain he doesn't do enough, and then she and the coven will harp at him the entire time he's visiting the baby.  Devoin is a loser and trash, but that's what she did to him, and what she's most likely doing/will to do to Luis.

Also, how is mommy going to fawn over her and how is Brittany going to get defensive for her if she has a supportive, involved father to her child? Briana wants to be the victim & wants the coven to baby her. 

Briana doesn't want her babies's daddies to step up.  She (perhaps subconsciously) picks losers & then tries her best push them away if they make an effort. 

MyPeopleAreNordic, you nailed it!

Edited September 29, 2017 by salvame

[TheRealT]

1 hour ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

I understand Barb's motivations, but really think that stringing Jenelle along was a bad call.  I think Barb just didn't want to believe that Jenelle wouldn't get her shit together, and she let that interfere with what Jace really needed, and likewise didn't serve Jenelle well, either (although I know most people don't care, but Barb does).

And here's what I'm scared of now.  If something does happen to Jace while in Jenelle's/David's care, if I were in Barb's shoes, I would feel inconsolable guilt because I allowed it to happen by settling the custody case.  You can say that Jenelle was going to be given visitation no matter what (although I'm not sure why that's a slam dunk), but at least if a judge heard and weighed the evidence and decided that Jenelle gets visitation, I would be able to tell myself, "I did everything I could to protect him, but the judge made a decision." 

And knowing Jenelle, she'd somehow make it Barb's fault, too--another reason I think Barb's crazy not to want to have a judge issue a ruling. 

I have some experience in estate planning, and know that it's easiest when an executor can wrap up the estate without court involvement, but there are situations where the hassle of having a judge sign off on everything is worth it because it's an ORDER by a JUDGE, so "All y'all can take it up with the judge yourself, or shut up."  I think Barb would have been well served to have a higher authority all along, for the same reason--don't like it Jenelle?  Complain to the judge.

I don't think it's fair to say that Barb "strung Jenelle along" (though I get what you mean). My point is, I think that Barb sincerely hoped that Jenelle would get her shit together and become a real mom to Jace. I don't think Barb was just saying that while secretly wanting to keep Jace for herself. I agree that the way Barb has dealt with the situation hasn't been ideal for Jace (I really don't think Jenelle has been hard done by in this situation in any way), but I think Barb made that series of mistakes because she loves her daughter and grandson and she sincerely believed that the best "happy ending" for everyone (including Barb herself) would be for Jenelle to step up as a decent parent. Unfortunately, that didn't work out. It's really hard for me to blame Barb for that. Barb has worked a full-time job, done her best to care for the child her daughter abandoned, and done her best to guide and support her daughter toward a better life. Jenelle has been selfish and self-indulgent, not giving a fuck how her actions affected Jace or Barb. To me, it's that simple to ascertain who's "wrong" in this situation.

As far as Barb attempting to get the court to keep Jace away from Jenelle even if she knew it would never happen, I feel like that's kind of a "semantic" (not really the right word) argument. The purpose of doing that would be to give Barb "plausible deniability" or peace in the event that something happened to Jace while he was in Jenelle's care, not really to protect Jace. It's likely that Barb's lawyer told her that Jenelle was pretty much assured of being awarded visitation since Barb didn't have any hard evidence of Jenelle's home being unsafe for Jace. Under those circumstances, the best thing for Barb to do for Jace is to do her best to keep things as civil and positive as possible with Jenelle. Making a fruitless attempt to paint Jenelle as an unfit mother would not serve that cause.

[lovesnark]

2 minutes ago, TheRealT said:

I don't think it's fair to say that Barb "strung Jenelle along" (though I get what you mean). My point is, I think that Barb sincerely hoped that Jenelle would get her shit together and become a real mom to Jace. I don't think Barb was just saying that while secretly wanting to keep Jace for herself. I agree that the way Barb has dealt with the situation hasn't been ideal for Jace (I really don't think Jenelle has been hard done by in this situation in any way), but I think Barb made that series of mistakes because she loves her daughter and grandson and she sincerely believed that the best "happy ending" for everyone (including Barb herself) would be for Jenelle to step up as a decent parent. Unfortunately, that didn't work out. It's really hard for me to blame Barb for that. Barb has worked a full-time job, done her best to care for the child her daughter abandoned, and done her best to guide and support her daughter toward a better life. Jenelle has been selfish and self-indulgent, not giving a fuck how her actions affected Jace or Barb. To me, it's that simple to ascertain who's "wrong" in this situation.

As far as Barb attempting to get the court to keep Jace away from Jenelle even if she knew it would never happen, I feel like that's kind of a "semantic" (not really the right word) argument. The purpose of doing that would be to give Barb "plausible deniability" or peace in the event that something happened to Jace while he was in Jenelle's care, not really to protect Jace. It's likely that Barb's lawyer told her that Jenelle was pretty much assured of being awarded visitation since Barb didn't have any hard evidence of Jenelle's home being unsafe for Jace. Under those circumstances, the best thing for Barb to do for Jace is to do her best to keep things as civil and positive as possible with Jenelle. Making a fruitless attempt to paint Jenelle as an unfit mother would not serve that cause.

Also, there had been visitation off and on since Jace was what? About 4? A judge would have taken that into consideration, too. If Barb had never let Jenelle see Jace unless it was in Barb's home or out in public together, there would have been more of a chance of Jenelle not getting visitation. Her seeing Jace in her own home for a few years, however sporadic, established a pattern.

I also don't think Barb ever strung her along or kept changing the parameters. She wanted Jenelle to be in a home, not be in an abusive relationship, not be using drugs, to have a job and to be close enough for Jace to transition from the only home he's known to Jenelle's. Jenelle has never met those requirements. She moved out of state, got into another abusive realtionship, still used drugs, had another child, moved back to NC while still in abusive relationship but not close to Barb's house, at all. Certainly not close enough to be part of Jace's daily life. After a few months unable to see Jace much because she was too stressed from breaking up with Nathan, she moves another abusive man into her home and the pattern starts all over again.  Buying property 40 miles from Barb certainly wasn't going to make a transition easy for Jace or make it easy for Jenelle to be part of his day to day life. That's all Barb has wanted. For Jenelle to participate in Jace's everyday life. Not be the (sometimes) weekend parent that's all pizza and video games. Jenelle has NEVER even tried.

[nikita]

F_CK YOU, BRIANA. I HATE YOUR GUTS.

 

[KittyKat133]

16 hours ago, MyPeopleAreNordic said:

As someone who owns a rental property, I'm seething with rage at Briana for putting crickets (and a rat? and who knows what else?) in Luis's apartment. LUIS DOESN'T HAVE TO PAY THE EXTERMINATOR. His innocent landlord does. (Also, not cool to do to the crickets and rat. Or the neighbors.) 

I am the property manager and sole broker for all my fathers rental properties, if it were me and I found out it was Briana, I would be suing her fake fat ass so quickly her head would spin. I may even go further than small claims and also report it as criminal behavior. I hope PETA sees this and tears her a new one. 

Also I have said this a few times now but here it goes; 

Briana was not heartbroken Luis "cheated". She was RELIEVED to have an excuse to go to the coven with of why she couldn't be with him. She looks like she is disgusted with him. She probably immediately stopped sleeping with him or showing him any ounce of affection after she found out she was pregnant. Luis was extremely remorseful and wanted to make things right. Briana could've given him a second chance if she was really that devastated by the "cheating" I think she would've tried to make it work with him bc she has romantic feelings for him but NO! She couldn't wait to tell the coven so they could burn him at the stake. 

[TeeMo]

The easiest thing Jenelle could have done to prove she was serious about "getting Jace back" or even just being regularly involved in his life would have been to set up her residence close to Barb (and thus Jace) but she could not even manage to do that. She had no need to move away - she wasn't moving for a job or for school, she always moves to chase the latest man she's invited to her bed. Barb and Jace have always been in the same place. If Jenelle wanted to prove something about her dedication to Jace she could have done that easily by sticking around. I am not sure why we are going round and round about all the ways Barb could have made it easier for Jenelle to have a reasonable chance to regain custody of Jace when Jenelle has never bothered to do even the simplest things to make it easier on herself. 

Barb is in a tough spot. Doing what is best for Jace (no contact with Jenelle or David at all) means she is permanently cut off from her own daughter AND Jace is cut off from his siblings. The woman is no saint but she is doing the best she can for that kid. 

[Tatum]

14 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

 

I understand Barb's motivations, but really think that stringing Jenelle along was a bad call.  I think Barb just didn't want to believe that Jenelle wouldn't get her shit together, and she let that interfere with what Jace really needed, and likewise didn't serve Jenelle well, either (although I know most people don't care, but Barb does).

 

I guess I just can't see how Jenelle was "strung along" in any capacity. There was never a time in Jace's lifetime that Jenelle demonstrated a consistent model of behavior conducive to raising a child. This is someone who has rarely held a job (I think her last job was a restaurant in what, 2011?), has made no attempt to use her certification to get a job, has repeatedly dated and lived with violent men, has been arrested so many times people were able to make a calendar of her mugshots and have a few spares pics left over- what person in their right mind would hand a child over to someone like that?

 

At the end of the day, I have never (and totally concede this is only my own opinion) believed Jenelle has any love for any of her kids, or wants them for any other reason than what they can give to her (ties to their father, a weapon against Barb, etc). Jenelle said during one of her meetings with a custody lawyer that she wanted Jace and to make sure Barb could only see him when Jenelle said she could. It was always about control and vindictiveness for Jenelle. I have never noticed one second of actual love from her for any of these kids.