Season 4 Talk

[mtlchick]

6 hours ago, Shermie said:

I'm sad that more viewers don't appreciate the importance and the brilliance of this type of storytelling, and that it all has to be viewed through the lens of behind-the-scenes producer and cast plans.

I do appreciate the episode for what it was.  The problem is, outside of the previous episode and maybe a minor blip of seeing a therapist before, nothing was shown to demonstrate they were building up to this.  Dre has always had a man child personality and Bow was a bit high strung, but nothing to say there were deeper problems in their marriage.  At least when Bow suffered from post postpartum depression, that was drawn out from a difficult pregnancy.   This wasn't drawn out out of anything, unless we were supposed to assume their personalities were going to collide to the point they couldn't communicate.  

[qtpye]

5 hours ago, chaifan said:

I'm glad someone else saw this, because I was thinking I had missed something major along the ways.  We've got 2 episodes of "problems" and now Dre is moving out.  Wha the What???  And also to have absolutely no reaction from the kids is just weird.

My guess - and this is just total speculation - is that we'll see a family disaster of some sort.  Ruby or Pops getting gravely ill or dying, or something with one of the kids, and that will bring Dre and Bo back together. 

Oh, no...not Pops, I love that man.  This might be a stupid question but what happened to the dog and the God Brother who was supposed to live with them.

[Silly Angel]

That was one of the saddest episodes of This Is Us I've ever seen. But so real. Ouch. It hurt me to my core. When you're so backed up with all the history and the rage and the frustration and the sorrow that you just can't give an inch...

[GHScorpiosRule]

Well that was fucking depressing.

[meirav]

I liked what they were fighting about. Unless one party has done something egregious, it's usually the death by a million cuts that causes a marriage to break apart. The two have gotten under each other's skins by the little things they have or haven't done, the small offenses that have not been voiced and the small irritations that have built up. 

Like others, I appreciated the use of lighting.

I think the scene between Ruby and Andre is important. Bow and Andre will reunite eventually because they think the other is worth it.

[SanDiegoInExile]

3 minutes ago, meirav said:

Bow and Andre will reunite eventually because they think the other is worth it.

That's what I thought, but now I have my doubts.  It seems a real possibility that Season Five will have them separated/divorced.  That would at least give them enough potential storylines for 22 episodes if the two older kids are truly AWOL.  There's also a part of me that thinks this could be a Tracee Ellis exit, that perhaps the show would kill her off just as Dre initiates a reconciliation.

Or maybe it's all a Dream.

[peeayebee]

6 hours ago, chaifan said:

My guess - and this is just total speculation - is that we'll see a family disaster of some sort.  Ruby or Pops getting gravely ill or dying, or something with one of the kids, and that will bring Dre and Bo back together. 

That's a pretty good guess. A lot of shows and movies have done that. It would be nice to see this show do something different.

[Shermie]

A family disaster is too cliche, and not realistic. A marriage on the precipice is not going to be permanently healed by something contrived.

Just remembered at the end when they're trying to do better. Dre walks in with the ramen noodles and suggests a snack, reenacting when they first moved in. Bow then says her reenactment line about how they're bad for you, and instead of smiling and going along, Dre takes that comment as a rejection. Either he's forgotten their initial repartee about the noodles, or he's so sensitive that he can't see beyond it. At the same time, Bow is polishing the farmhouse sink that she clearly chose because Dre wanted it (which, why, when he never does dishes?), hoping he notices, which he doesn't.

The entire scene is filled with moments where it could have gotten better for them, but because of things left unsaid or misinterpreted, it just gets worse. I found this so realistic. And devasting.

[meirav]

7 hours ago, SanDiegoInExile said:

That's what I thought, but now I have my doubts.  It seems a real possibility that Season Five will have them separated/divorced.  That would at least give them enough potential storylines for 22 episodes if the two older kids are truly AWOL.  There's also a part of me that thinks this could be a Tracee Ellis exit, that perhaps the show would kill her off just as Dre initiates a reconciliation.

Or maybe it's all a Dream.

Having them separate would provide more potential storylines: Junior to college with separated parents, impact on Jack and/or Diane, parent meeting love interest, holiday, custody, kids changing schools. Then, there's Zoey not knowing anything about what's transpiring. A reconciliation definitely not happening this season, but might eventually. I don't think Tracee will be killed off; she may just fade away. Still, I think the Ruby/Dre talk is foreshadowing.

One thing I wonder is what happens to the grandparents. Ruby and Pops are Dre's parents, but one of the episodes has Dre moving into an ultra-modern house.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

It must be pretty awkward to have your husband move out while leaving his parents behind.

[ljenkins782]

On 5/2/2018 at 12:54 AM, NUguy514 said:

I loudly groaned when that Coldplay song (which I actually love) started playing.  Like, WE GET IT, guys.  I mean, I just can't with anything about this show right now.

Also, that new kitchen is fucking ugly.

Seriously. Was that a nod to the "conscious uncoupling" of Chris Martin and Gwyneth Paltrow? 

The constant background music was so over the top. Too bad, because Anthony and Tracee were actually bringing quite a bit of emotional depth with their performances, but the last-5-minutes-of-Full-House scoring of "Very Important Moment" music running in the background drained any nuance out of it. 

Quote

 

Maybe the darker kitchen is just representative of the darker stage they're in. I didn't think it was ugly; frankly, I'm so tired of all-white kitchens anyway. 

I thought they did a great job of one person misinterpreting the other's reaction (Bow laughing at the one rose) and then it becomes a long term thing (Dre never gets her flowers again) can blow up out of control. It happened several times in this ep and the previous one. It's happened with my husband and me too; so easy.

I'm sad that more viewers don't appreciate the importance and the brilliance of this type of storytelling, and that it all has to be viewed through the lens of behind-the-scenes producer and cast plans.

 

I have no problem with the storyline itself and the way the actors handled it, but the melodrama of the filtered lens and treacly music pushed it from emotional to completely overwrought. 

[readster]

12 hours ago, mtlchick said:

I do appreciate the episode for what it was.  The problem is, outside of the previous episode and maybe a minor blip of seeing a therapist before, nothing was shown to demonstrate they were building up to this.  Dre has always had a man child personality and Bow was a bit high strung, but nothing to say there were deeper problems in their marriage.  At least when Bow suffered from post postpartum depression, that was drawn out from a difficult pregnancy.   This wasn't drawn out out of anything, unless we were supposed to assume their personalities were going to collide to the point they couldn't communicate.  

That's my point too, I think it is a very bold move by the show. Many comedies have done it, in fact Mad about You dealt with a similar storyline many moons ago, but it was almost a half season build up to the point and even the resolution. Here, we know how much of a baby Dre is, and we know how much Bow has to deal with this crap, including her high ego self too. Just like Bow quitting her job as a doctor, it came out of nowhere. All of a sudden Dre is: "You should stay home because I'm the man and... oh yeah yes our son was born early and he needs someone at home all the time. Plus, our kids need more help at home." It was all: "What?" The postpartum was actually handle very well including Dre telling Ruby she was wrong and this wasn't one of his handwaves. So, this along with the quitting her job just doesn't work in the full context, because the build up was just here. 

[CurlyATX]

My kids and I love watching this show.  In fact, they often watch old episodes or rewatch the new ones.  Ugh... we had to turn this OFF after the argument about the flowers and Bow screaming about how she didn't know for sure what they were fighting about.  This was the most depressing episode.  Normally, wouldn't both of them just be keeping busy instead of staring at each other awkwardly?

I didn't even get to see the end product of the kitchen.  We've never had that kind of remodel but is it normal to just "stay at a hotel"?  Wouldn't that be crazy expensive and get on your nerves with so many kids and adults? 

Even these fights didn't seem realistic at all.  

[debbie311]

I also think that there will be some crisis, maybe a serious illness or a death, that will make Bo and Dre realize what is really important.  I sure hope they don't do some kind of cliff-hanger.  I like that the show has tackled some serious issues in the past, but this was painful to watch.  It seems to have come out of nowhere -- like they hired some all new writers or something.  That scene where Dre was remembering giving the single rose to Bo and her laughing (ridiculing) about it.  Who knew he was hanging on to all this resentment and she was so insensitive?  It's like they have just completely fallen out of love, they are just so bitter.  And I agree, I much prefer the old kitchen over the new one.  There was nothing wrong with the old one, but I guess they wanted to throw in some conflict.

[Snapdragon]

This just occurred to me.  If Dre and Bow do break-up, will he make a powerpoint slideshow of their relationship?  

[mookster]

Okay, so 12yo and I watched it -- so freaking depressing and, yes, a tad melodramatic. As good as the acting overall is, this just seems too sudden. They've always tied up Bow's and Dre's conflicts over his manbaby behavior in a neat little bow at the end of each episode, so this full-blown hostility and lingering resentment just seems off. I wouldn't have had one baby with that guy, much less 5! And 12yo pointed out why are they leaving the kids out of it? Don't they notice what's going on?

And yes, the kitchen is horrible.

[StatisticalOutlier]

On 5/2/2018 at 8:40 AM, luckyroll3 said:

Despite having tears in some of the earlier Very Special Episodes of this show, there was always a chuckle or 4 to be had and that was completely missing from this. 

I laughed when Diane rejected Bow's hug, going for a handshake instead.

 

On 5/2/2018 at 8:58 AM, tennisgurl said:

And, who in behind the scenes on this show is in love with Coldplay?  

The captions identified two of the songs as being by Coldplay.  I assumed they bought product placement, like Buick or State Farm.

[Guest]

I liked it.  I don't mind a surprise.  Everything is always so formulaic and predictable.  

I'm surprised Ross and Anderson do drama so well.  They do This Is Us better than This Is Us. 

I loved the old kitchen.  Maybe that's the point.  Sometimes change is bad.  

[jhlipton]

On 5/1/2018 at 6:47 PM, Mu Shu said:

I don’t watch much in the way of sitcoms.  So i decided to try some sitcoms.  So now it’s not funny?  Damnit.

Try Brooklyn 99.  Always a chuckle or two (and usually a few laughs)  and the single best romance (Jake and Amy) in all of TV's history.  It will take a while to get the characters' idiosyncrasies, and you may want to look at earlier seasons (ignore the Boyle/Rosa plotline -- it was fixed by the end of season 1) to understand the characters.

On 5/1/2018 at 11:17 PM, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Because he is now apparently tired of her.

I noticed that a lot of his memories had more to do with the kids she gave him than with her.

On 5/2/2018 at 8:02 PM, Shermie said:

Dre takes that comment as a rejection. Either he's forgotten their initial repartee about the noodles, or he's so sensitive that he can't see beyond it. At the same time, Bow is polishing the farmhouse sink that she clearly chose because Dre wanted it (which, why, when he never does dishes?), hoping he notices, which he doesn't.

Dre doesn't just hold grudges -- he pets them and hugs them and cuddles with them at night.  So yes to the "too sensitive" p;art and of course he doesn't see the sink (and farmhouse sinks are STUPID.  Having two bowls -- wash and rinse, for example -- is vital.

17 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

It must be pretty awkward to have your husband move out while leaving his parents behind.

It would be a good time for Bo to kick Ruby out on her ass.

[readster]

5 hours ago, jhlipton said:

Try Brooklyn 99.  Always a chuckle or two (and usually a few laughs)  and the single best romance (Jake and Amy) in all of TV's history.  It will take a while to get the characters' idiosyncrasies, and you may want to look at earlier seasons (ignore the Boyle/Rosa plotline -- it was fixed by the end of season 1) to understand the characters.

I noticed that a lot of his memories had more to do with the kids she gave him than with her.

Dre doesn't just hold grudges -- he pets them and hugs them and cuddles with them at night.  So yes to the "too sensitive" p;art and of course he doesn't see the sink (and farmhouse sinks are STUPID.  Having two bowls -- wash and rinse, for example -- is vital.

It would be a good time for Bo to kick Ruby out on her ass.

Why would Dre do that? He's a typical guy on an ABC show. He doesn't know anything, but to order expensive shoes, make power points and constantly defend his co-workers who treat him like a nobody all the time. Also, Bow would spend no time at all kicking Ruby out in a second. She be fine with Pops, but Ruby, she be kicked out in no time flat. 

[AuntieDiane6]

Quote

Just like Bow quitting her job as a doctor, it came out of nowhere. All of a sudden Dre is: "You should stay home because I'm the man and... oh yeah yes our son was born early and he needs someone at home all the time. Plus, our kids need more help at home." It was all: "What?" The postpartum was actually handle very well including Dre telling Ruby she was wrong and this wasn't one of his handwaves. So, this along with the quitting her job just doesn't work in the full context, because the build up was just here. 

No doctor quits her job.  Lots of opportunities to work nights or weekends when daddy is home, if childcare is their issue.  She also could have taken a medical leave too.

[GHScorpiosRule]

8 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I'm surprised Ross and Anderson do drama so well.

I take it you never saw Anderson's stint on Law & Order: SVU (I think it was one episode) or on Law & Order Mothership the last two seasons?

As for the turn these last two, plus two more are taking, I'm not a fan. I don't care how formulaic it is, but this show is a sitcom. Not a dramedy, or whatever the term is for a show that has drama and comedy. 

This used to be must see tv for me. But this season, it's a chore to watch. I want more Pops. I want to laugh. I don't want to see this marriage of Bow and Dre's falling apart, when there was no build up to it; nothing shown these past four years that this was where they were headed. It's a cheat.

I had to stop watching this episode after five minutes. Then watched the rest the next day.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

No doctor quits her job.  Lots of opportunities to work nights or weekends when daddy is home, if childcare is their issue.  She also could have taken a medical leave too.

Did she quit?   I thought she was on leave. I’ve known doctors who are mothers who take leaves or quit jobs but get new ones later.  

 I haven’t seen Anderson on other shows.  Procedural aren’t for me.  Too formulaic.  

[CurlyATX]

18 minutes ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

No doctor quits her job.  Lots of opportunities to work nights or weekends when daddy is home, if childcare is their issue.  She also could have taken a medical leave too.

I'm curious if there are any medical folks who can chime in on this one.  Growing up, we had a LOT of Indian families where the mom was a nurse, working the night shift and the dads worked in offices during  the day.  Although moms were exhausted, they took care of the kids during the day as well.  

I couldn't watch the whole episode, but it seems weird that Bow and Dre are at this brink.  I feel like a more realistic thing would be that they just keep drifting apart but things aren't so awkward. More like roomates (maybe one moves to sleep in a guest room?)

[Racj82]

On 5/2/2018 at 1:58 PM, Shermie said:

I thought the episode was amazing.

It's black-ish, this is the show. It tackles some serious shit, and what's more serious - and worthy of a multi-episode arc - than the disintegration of a long term marriage, the basis of the show? 

Maybe the darker kitchen is just representative of the darker stage they're in. I didn't think it was ugly; frankly, I'm so tired of all-white kitchens anyway. 

I thought they did a great job of one person misinterpreting the other's reaction (Bow laughing at the one rose) and then it becomes a long term thing (Dre never gets her flowers again) can blow up out of control. It happened several times in this ep and the previous one. It's happened with my husband and me too; so easy.

I'm sad that more viewers don't appreciate the importance and the brilliance of this type of storytelling, and that it all has to be viewed through the lens of behind-the-scenes producer and cast plans.

Thank you. I've been actively sifting through comments to get to people who liked or appreciated this episode and this arc.

None of this has anything to do with the show ending, some fu to the network or Tracee wanting out. Everyone is involved in this arc on a writing and directing level from what I can see. These are professionals stretching their muscles. I understand it not being for a person but when I sign up for a show, the only thing I ask is that what they are trying to accomplish, they do well. I don't put shows in boxes. Especially this day and age. A lot of shows are feeling the freedom to explore different avenues and be more creative. And I'm here for it.

With this arc, I see a show deciding to look at their characters in the same way they'v tackled many other topics over the years. But, with a less cutting away for humor. Just keeping it real. At this point, in most sitcoms, they just keep doubling down or characteristics that would blow up a real marriage. They are exploring that instead of just being another sitcom. Which, in certain ways, this show hasn't been. 

What I actually take offense with is shows not being to live in the realism of these topics and arcs. They don't feel strong enough to not just let the topic take over. Instead let's keep cutting everything with jokes or a laugh track. 

And everyone is probably getting Emmy noms from this. It will be deserved.

[Dee]

It will be interesting to see how the in-laws react to Rainbow & Andre's marital strife.

Earl & Ruby tease Rainbow, but they both respect her.

D'Alicia has never agreed with Rainbow's choice of husband, but she believes Bow & Dre are good together.

And Paul? Well, Paul is just happy to have his Black wife.

[peeayebee]

2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I take it you never saw Anderson's stint on Law & Order: SVU (I think it was one episode) or on Law & Order Mothership the last two seasons?

Or The Shield.

[GHScorpiosRule]

6 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

Or The Shield.

D'OH! Right! Point is, Anderson is very good in dramatic roles, even though I first saw him in a comedic one.

[readster]

7 hours ago, CurlyATX said:

I'm curious if there are any medical folks who can chime in on this one.  Growing up, we had a LOT of Indian families where the mom was a nurse, working the night shift and the dads worked in offices during  the day.  Although moms were exhausted, they took care of the kids during the day as well.  

 

The problem is, Bow doesn't really do the "Donna Reed" thing at all. When she "quit" she was completely oblivious about being at home with the kids all the time. In fact, Junior corrected her on grocery buying, timing, pick up time, ect. Then she met the "stay at home moms" who she had made fun of the last four years and its: "OMG, I love YOGA and doing nothing all day when the kids aren't at home!" Plus, they hired Erica (Black Nanny 2... I hate that damn name). Then they barely show Baby D, so, what the hell was the point of her quitting? OH because Dre had to be the man of the house and because Baby D needed someone there all the time. Then what pushes them apart is because they can talk about Baby D not walking yet or other things, so why the hell did they hire Erica in the first place? Oh so we could have a racial joke for an episode? Bow being the stay at home mom just doesn't work and after spending that money for a crappy kitchen redesign, where neither parent really does much with the kitchen except for Ruby. Why did she quit again or take a leave again? 

[debbie311]

I won't be interested in a show about Bow and Dre separating, dating others, dealing with divorce.  To me the whole storyline is depressing.  It's pretty sad if because the kids are getting older, some going away to college, they have to throw in the drama of a separation for ratings or whatever. The thing (for me) is the interaction between Bow and Dre is ugly - not sure I will be able to forget about the way they screamed at each other.

And I agree with whoever said that a major event (illness, death) does not necessarily save a marriage.  Sometimes it just piles on more stress.  If they go through some trauma and then fall into each other's arms and life happily ever after, sorry, that is going to look totally fake.  Based on what we have seen so far, they need to be in serious therapy, maybe couples as well as individual.  They both have issues.

[Lunula]

I have always respected Black’ish for taking on difficult topics - postpartum depression, the double standard existing between men and women when it comes to being a stay at home parent, or losing his/her virginity, racism, police shootings and black male role models, etc. The show does was all sit-coms do, it takes personalities to extremes in order to make a joke - Dre, Diane, Junior, Ruby, Charlie, all the white coworkers...they are all caricatures to get a laugh. That’s fine, I always enjoyed the show, so I continued watching.

However, this disintegrating marriage story came too out of left field for me. Literally, until two episodes ago, there was no hint that anything was wrong between them. None. Aside from the fact that this is a sit-com and it isn’t funny (over multiple episodes) and even though the actors are doing a fine job with it - it’s not believable at all for Dre and Bow. I have been married almost 21 years - we have no kids, so we’ve had to fully concentrate on “us” for 21 years. We have absolutely gone through “rough patches” - but never have they happened overnight like this. Sure, the fights and resentments are realistic, but is that why I watch Black’ish? No.

We watched this latest episode last night (we have been putting it off) and we wanted to quit watching halfway through. In fact, he told me it was fine to delete the season pass. Over the span of two episodes, the show has taken us to a place where he doesn’t care if he ever watches again. It was never his favorite, but now he is apathetic. I might watch the next episode without him to see if this improves, but if it’s like this, it is gone forever. 

In the end, I feel duped. I don’t mind experimenting with the format or having risky topics, but this show has never been about sustained realism. It was not billed as a drama and that isn’t why I watch. 

[smartyshorts]

This whole episode I was chanting "free Rainbow! Run, girl. Run!" Everything was such bleak nonsense that I fixated on one scene where Junior inadvertently ate a sandwich that was meant for Now. He offers to order her another and she says it already took TWO HOURS for this order to arrive. Two hours for delivery? Are they on the side of Walton Mountain? I couldn't work my way past that.

[TobinAlbers]

Definitely not saying that Andre isn't a pain in the ass with major issues, but Bow definitely also has pent up anger and resentment issues that she needs to address. She was throwing out petty low  blow under the breath jabs at Dre just as much as he was. I hate to say it but it felt like he was intentionally provoking him because she wasn't trying to solve anything, she wanted to fight. She was sick of biting her tongue (which I get) and just letting the thoughts and feelings out. Problem is that when Dre responded in kind she tried to act like she held no responsibility in the escalation.

Having endured a childhood where my parents began the separation game when I was in elementary school with my dad finally for real moving out on the first day of my senior year of high school, and being an adult who can see how as adults we don't know poop, I feel for all involved. One thing I always oddly sympathize with is the dads who have to move out. Suddenly they go from the routine of seeing their kids everyday, having their home, space, etc. to having to uproot their lives to a crappy apartment, seeing their kids for limited periods of time before sending them back to mom and having to rebuild their lives.  Trust me I saw firsthand how crappy it was for my mother in getting her bearings and figuring out the next phase of her life, but she at least she had the familiarity of me during that year and when I came home from college on breaks and the house that was her home. Sincerely involved Dads in these situations (who aren't cheating/abusive assholes) get some shitty ends of the stick. 

[possibilities]

There are far more joint custody arrangements these days, where the dads and moms split the kid time 50-50. Also, even back in the day, dads who wanted custody often got it, but they hardly ever wanted it.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

It will be interesting if the kids go to Dre for the weekend and Rainbow is home with Ruby and Pops.

[Red Bridey]

Bow just needs to go back to work.  She's got too much free time on her hands. 

That farmhouse sink in marble is just a bad idea. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Hated the blue filter. We get it. They're sad. They're in a bad place. The golden hued scenes are to highlight how happy they used to be. But I didn't need the cold blue filter to get the message that they were hammering home with all the subtlety of a sledgehammer.

I started laughing when I saw Dre at the door with a packed bag. This man who has an entire closet full of shoes is leaving with just that one little bag? Then I continued laughing just thinking about the fact that both of his parents live in that house so where in the hell is he going to stay? And now Bow gets to be a single parent to four kids and live with both of her in laws - fun!

I just rolled my eyes when Dre said that instead of having a divided sink for the clean and dirty dishes, she could just get to the dishes sooner. YOU SHUT YOUR FUCKING MOUTH! First of all, until recently, Bow was working full time too and I would bet that she was still doing the majority of the household chores then too, meaning Dre has probably never done the dishes. Secondly, if you aren't the one doing the specific task, you don't get to criticize the way the other person does it.

But my bigger question is why don't any of these children have chores? Junior, Jack, and Diane are more than old enough to do simple things like washing the dishes (or probably more accurately, rinsing the dishes and putting them in the dishwasher). My sister and I had to do things like walk the dog before and after school, wash the dishes by hand every night after dinner (we had a dishwasher but our parents wouldn't let us use it), vacuum on the weekends, and do our own laundry (washing, drying, ironing, folding, and putting it all away) by the time we were in fifth grade - and this was in addition to taking care of our family's Devante who was several years younger. These are basic things that even a 10 year old can do. It's not rocket science. They're things that everyone should know how to do (you'd be astounded by how many college freshmen don't know how to use a washing machine). We still had plenty of time to play with our friends, take ballet/gymnastics/piano classes, do our homework, watch tv, and be regular kids. Junior is the only one who seems to help around the house at all (I think I remember him talking about loading the dishwasher more efficiently once) which seem more a combination of wanting to help Bow and applying his theories of efficiency than anything else.

Anyway, I get that the show tackles heavy issues, but usually there's at least a dose of levity whereas this episode was just bleak from beginning to end. It's a sitcom so I expect at least a little bit of comedy. Going straight up dramatic like this for this marital problems storyline is like the equivalent of a dramatic show like The Handmaid's Tale deciding to do a four episode arc of Three Stooges style slapstick. I mean, more power to you if you have the skills to pull it off, but you can't be all that surprised when your audience's reaction is "Uh, this isn't what we signed up to watch."

Edited May 7, 2018 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 4/30/2018 at 9:24 AM, CurlyATX said:

dog that's as big as me starts jumping on me with these giant jaws I get  nervous (even if he's just "giving me kisses")

Even if it's a sweet tempered fluffy dog, I still do not like when dog owners think it's cute that their dog wants to "give me kisses." I don't want your dog licking my face. Why is that so hard to understand? And I say this as someone who grew up having a dog and likes dogs.

To me, it's similar to the way parents quickly get over their kids' bodily fluids ("it's just poop"). That's fine for you, but don't expect me to have the same attitude about it.

I'm allergic to cats (like I break out in hives and I start breathing like a wheezing asthmatic within five minutes) so my fear every time I fly is that there will be some person with an emotional support cat aka someone who refuses to travel without Fluffy and I will be forced to breathe recycled cat air for the entire flight.

[stillhere1900]

On 4/30/2018 at 2:57 PM, Dee said:

I wonder how many of the problems with the show stem from Kenya's impending exit and/or the current political regime change.

Kenya ?

[ItCouldBeWorse]

11 minutes ago, stillhere1900 said:

Kenya ?

Kenya Barris , the creator and showrunner.

[STOPSHOUTING]

On 5/1/2018 at 10:03 PM, bybrandy said:

I thought it was really, really painful in a way that felt really real.. but not in a way that I particularly wanted to watch.   

I think it felt real-ish. I mean, first, they have a fifth child that's barely a year old, that his wife, a doctor, doesn't realize she's likely still suffering from postpartum depression and get some additional help, especially with the combo of a career shift seems ... Unrealistic. Second, the whole I quit my job with Bow thing NEVER rang true, as being a doctor has always been a huge part of her identity, even when often played for laughs ("Dre, you know I'm a doctor, right?"). It never, seemed like a realistic thing for the character to want to do, and even less so when she continues to dress to the nines daily (this seems VERY much like an actress-driven desire, not a true-to-character thing), spend almost zero time with her new baby, who is often absent for entire episodes, and has taken on no other outside cause that could help explain all of this. We've literally seen zero change in Bow after leaving her job, which is ... Not realistic at all.

When they finally fought, that was realistic. When they didn't ... Not so much. If it was this bad, then they wouldn't be tiptoeing, that's not usually how long term relationships fall apart, at least not how they START falling apart. (Five years past this, when they both admit they've been staying together for the kids? Sure. In the first flushes of growing apart there is a LOT more rancor.)

And the stupid kitchen remodel definitely came out of nowhere and, not that this is here or there, but it was UGLY. And didn't match their gorgeous house. And made no sense for their needs. Because nobody replaces a 48" Subzero and 60" Wolf range with a SMALLER kitchen, with cheaper fixtures and appliances, that looks like it belongs in a bachelor's loft to accommodate a family of seven, plus live-in grandparents. It doesn't even match the other half of the flipping great room, which they pointedly didn't touch. That this kitchen remodel disaster got me more worked up than the potential break-up says a lot about how the arc is working, and I'm someone who once would have said Black-ish was amongst the best shows on TV.

Oh and, taking a remodel on when she's not working and they're not getting along? Yeah. No. They're both supposed to be smart AND, while they've always been represented as quite well off, they've never been presented as having no worries about money at all. First, they were just able to toss a six-figure incomes (Bow's) just as their oldest goes to college without even really talking about those consequences, which seemed to be zero. Now, they're  adding hundreds of thousands in extra expenses without even a question of cost? And they still, supposedly, have a full-time nanny and support Dre's parents. To make all that work, we'd have to believe that Dre is bringing in 5-6 million per year as a secondary partner at his advertising firm, which has not only seems wildly optimistic, it's never, ever been touted as the case in the past. In fact, in an earlier episode WHEN THEY WERE BOTH WORKING they were concerned about him buying too many shoes, due to cost. So, umm, their life now? No. 

Edited May 7, 2018 by STOPSHOUTING

[readster]

Quote

Oh and, taking a remodel on when she's not working and they're not getting along? Yeah. No. They're both supposed to be smart AND, while they've always been represented as quite well off, they've never been presented as having no worries about money at all. First, they were just able to toss a six-figure incomes (Bow's) just as their oldest goes to college without even really talking about those consequences, which seemed to be zero. Now, they're  adding hundreds of thousands in extra expenses without even a question of cost? And they still, supposedly, have a full-time nanny and support Dre's parents. To make all that work, we'd have to believe that Dre is bringing in 5-6 million per year as a secondary partner at his advertising firm, which has not only seems wildly optimistic, it's never, ever been touted as the case in the past. In fact, in an earlier episode WHEN THEY WERE BOTH WORKING they were concerned about him buying too many shoes, due to cost. So, umm, their life now? No. 

Those are all the holes you could drive three Triple T tanks through. None of it makes sense, all of a sudden their finances, which have been talked about since day 1 are not a problem what's so ever. If they do split Dre and Bow up, how is any of them going to afford the house all by themselves? I would laugh if Dre is all of a sudden back in the apartment he grew up with and how he constantly hated and why he went White Collar, because he didn't want to have that life again, but he has to be a MAN remember?

[stillhere1900]

5 hours ago, STOPSHOUTING said:

 In fact, in an earlier episode WHEN THEY WERE BOTH WORKING they were concerned about him buying too many shoes, due to cost. So, umm, their life now? No. 

Not due to cost so mush as the cost of those shoes that he only wore once or not at all

[jhlipton]

On 5/6/2018 at 4:41 PM, ItCouldBeWorse said:

It will be interesting if the kids go to Dre for the weekend and Rainbow is home with Ruby and Pops.

If Bow lets Ruby stay in the house, she's dumber than I thought.  She needs tro tell Ruby to follow her precious baby boy -- she's not welcome in HER house.  She has a lot less problem with Pops; he can probably stay.

On 5/6/2018 at 5:26 PM, Red Bridey said:

That farmhouse sink in marble is just a bad idea. 

Farmhouse sinks are a dumb idea for the reason Bow mentioned -- having two sinks is pretty necessary.

Marble sinks are a bad idea too.  Marble stains like anything -- there's a reason designers went from marble counters (for a brief moment) to granite ones.

[readster]

15 hours ago, stillhere1900 said:

Not due to cost so mush as the cost of those shoes that he only wore once or not at all

It's been established since season 1 that Dre just buys the designer shoes because he can. He wares the ones he wants to on those specific days, but it's been shown he just loves the fact he can buy them and then put them in his "special shoe closet". He probably has enough in shoes that could pay off two cars. 

[STOPSHOUTING]

16 hours ago, stillhere1900 said:

Not due to cost so mush as the cost of those shoes that he only wore once or not at all

That was a whole episode about them BOTH spending money frivolously and how neither learned good financial skills from their parents. How they had little savings and spent most of what they make, on things like Dre’s shoes and Bow’s beloved fridge. It was about how  first-gen successful people, who often have no examples of wealth in their families, frequently struggle with finances, even when they have more than most, which was an example of Black-ish handling a real-world problem deftly, unlike the current storyline.

The story wasn’t that Dre’s shoe habit would bankrupt them, because they ARE affluent, it was that they were unprepared for emegencies and not planning for the future, including for their FIVE kids, like their more-used-to-money neighbors.

So, yes, it WAS about cost and is totally contrary to this entire season arc of Bow quitting her job with no financial consequence.

It also makes the kitchen remodel even dumber than it alresdy was, not just financially, since that episode literally showed Bow posing for a Facebook profile pic with her fridge, she loved it so much ... At what would be exactly the same time this latest ep retcons them setting up the meeting to remodel the kitchen she now supposedly hated (which also ditched that fridge).

It’s not how serious these latest episodes are that’s the problem, it’s that they betray all the previous storytelling about this couple and their relationship we’ve been explicitly told and invested in. Yes, happy people do have marital issues, but they went from zero conflict, and, in fact, an enviable marital relationship and partnership, to moving out in two eps.

Yes, the “kitchen remodel” was both a meditation on growing apart AND a time jump of unspecified amount, but it rings no more true for it.

 

They went from solid as a rock, to on the rocks, in two episodes. No groundwork of conflict and/or ambivalence was laid before that; If anything the opposite. Bow and Dre’s relationship has always been portrayed as strong, even when he acted a fool; A point this episode explicitly reinforced in its flashbacks. 

The acting, as it always has been, was good. It’s the storytelling that’s bad here.

Oh and, another gripe ... The voiceover from, I think, last week, repeated that oft-quoted, but still false, “divorce rate over 50%,” nonsense. Which is not now, nor ever has been, accurate. The only way to get that number is to divide the annual number of divorces by the annual number of weddings which is ... not how statistics work. Not least because there are obviously far, FAR more married folks in the U.S. than just those that tied the knot IN ANY ONE YEAR. Dumb. Dumb. Dumb. 

Edited May 8, 2018 by STOPSHOUTING

[Guest]

I think it's pretty accepted that the divorce rate is somewhere in the 42-50+% range, depending on your definition.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/living-single/201702/what-is-the-divorce-rate-really

I don't blame the show for not spending more eps on establishing conflict between Bow and Dre, because the tone change is so controversial.  And the biggest gripe with the show seems to be that Dre is an ass and Bow should kick him to the curb.  And now that she kind of did, the big gripe is 'wait, where did that come from, I don't want that'.  

But I did think going from Bow celebrating her few child-free moments in that 'saying yes' ep to her turning gray as soon as the kids left in this one was pretty jarring.  

[STOPSHOUTING]

41 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I think it's pretty accepted that the divorce rate is somewhere in the 42-50+% range, depending on your definition.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/living-single/201702/what-is-the-divorce-rate-really

Except it’s not at all accepted, as even that article you link to says, listing the percentages you have as, literally, the author’s “best guess” ... an author who specializes, according to her bio, on single people, by the way. 

Divorce rates for a college-educated couple in the Johnson’s income bracket who have been married 20 years is actually quite low; definitely the exception, rather than the norm. And divorce in those circumstances without obvious triggers such as financial distress, adultry or substance abuse are even rarer. 

Do folks just “grow apart”? Sure. But usually not after already working through five kids and 20+ years together. That’s the stuff that happens in the first five years—when most divorce occurs, actually—or after baby No. 1, another frequent marriage breakdown moment. Not this far down the road. 

If the story works for you, great, and I’m certainly not trying to change your mind, it just doesn’t for me, and veracity is one of the reasons.

EDITED TO ADD: Legit don’t want to get in a stat off, but here is raw, verifiable (gov’t collected, not article with a inevitable viewpoint) data where the divorce rate for college-educated couples is 23% for first marriages. Throw in the income level and existing marriage longevity, both also huge factors, on Black-ish and it drops even lower. Including divorce rates for marriages beyond each partner’s first always wildly skews the data. It’s like including Shaquille O’Neal in a dataset to determine “average” height and weight.

https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2013/article/marriage-and-divorce-patterns-by-gender-race-and-educational-attainment.htm

If anyone is interested, see also this story on the 50% divorce rate myth (or Google and find one you like better, there are many, from multiple sources) ... https://mobile.nytimes.com/2005/04/19/health/divorce-rate-its-not-as-high-as-you-think.html

Edited May 8, 2018 by STOPSHOUTING

[Guest]

I don't think they're saying people in their exact income/age bracket divorce over 50% of the time, just the gen pop. 

Even if it's 20% I think it's a valid phenomenon for them to address on the show.  

I'm not trying to change your mind, either.  Just discussing why the story worked ok for me.  

[CurlyATX]

I really don't even understand why they had Bow have another baby.  Usually that crap is put in because the actress got pregnant IRL.  The twins are young enough to still have active kid storylines.  

A better marriage-facing-strain situation would have been something revolving finances, since that often is what rocks couples.  Or, maybe a nice milestone birthday life crisis.  Most of the couples I know who are divorcing are headed towards 40 and all of a sudden look at their lives and say "yikes... I don't want this".  In my experience only it's also often predicated around a big change (someone loses a lot of weight, a baby now is in school, someone graduates).  

We are halfway through this, right?