S01.E02: Battle at the Binary Stars

[starri]

No episode description, but it's set to drop on All Access immediately after the actual premiere airs on CBS.

I read somewhere that this one is a Nicholas Meyer-penned episode, but I can't figure out where I saw it.

[paigow]

Welcome to Biskelion...

[starri]

Well, that was totally unexpected. 

[Kira53]

Early morning tomorrow, so I don't think I'll be streaming the episode tonight but I'm not cheap about Star Trek.  I've always been interested in Star Trek and I've already spent lots of money over the decades to enjoy Star Trek I want to give this show a try.  I think it has potential.  I'm going to set it up on my smart TV and I might just watch and have a little bit of deprived sleep. Too bad it was so much controversy today and long football games otherwise they would've been plenty time to watch both episodes.   That was unfortunate for CBS. 

I'm finding that it's not quick and easy with the smart TV. My TV is smart but I'm not so smart about using the smart TV. I've only really been using it to watch Netflix every couple of months. So I think the best thing for me to do is to sign up on my android and  hopefully I can screen it on my TV the way YouTube fully screens on the TV. Now I'm starting to think that's not gonna work because that's just the YouTube thing? Any advice? I've got a Roku but it's not set up  and it's in the home office and is a smaller TV. Well I guess I'll take my free seven days after I figure out how to view it on my largest TV. I think they should just have a relationship with Netflix were you could pay an upgrade to watch CBS all at at least in the beginning.  I see that CBS all access could be very valuable want you get rid of your cable then you can watch all your CBS shows on demand.  Besides 60 minutes I'm not sure I watch any CBS shows.

too time-consuming to try to figure it out tonight going to get a good nights sleep and I'm sure they'll be lots of great recommendations on the site as well as in other sources how to sign up and watch it on your big TV.  I just don't think that watching it on my iMac is a great way to get introduced to this show.

Edited September 30, 2017 by Kira53
Spelling

[aemom]

Dear Space network:

How do you manage to block the time for the two episodes and then add a bunch of interview crap at the beginning of the first one so that it gets cut off?

Not sure how much I missed,  but I'm retaping the 2nd hour of their next airing during the night.

Star Trek pilots are never that great so I'm reserving judgement for the time being.

[Peace 47]

Can someone say it?  Captain Georgiou is dead!?!  I'm so bummed.  She was my favorite character.  When I read the casting news, I actually was highly suspicious about her fate given Jason Isaacs' casting in this series and the fact that Yeoh was only identified as the Shenzhou captain (not the Discovery captain), but I was holding out hope for some high-concept "Sliding Doors"-esque thing at least, where we saw two realities or something.

I don't know why I fell in love with Captain Georgiou so quickly (maybe that's just because I tend to favor the captains on these Trek shows), but super-sad about this.  In a way, these first two episodes are just a prequel to the actual series, it seems.

[legaleagle53]

12 minutes ago, Peace 47 said:

Can someone say it?  Captain Georgiou is dead!?!  I'm so bummed.  She was my favorite character.  When I read the casting news, I actually was highly suspicious about her fate given Jason Isaacs' casting in this series and the fact that Yeoh was only identified as the Shenzhou captain (not the Discovery captain), but I was holding out hope for some high-concept "Sliding Doors"-esque thing at least, where we saw two realities or something.

I don't know why I fell in love with Captain Georgiou so quickly (maybe that's just because I tend to favor the captains on these Trek shows), but super-sad about this.  In a way, these first two episodes are just a prequel to the actual series, it seems.

I imagine there are those who feel and are already screaming that this is proof that sexism and misogyny are alive and well in the Trek franchise, otherwise why else would they kill off the female captain within the first two episodes after giving viewers the impression that she's going to be a mainstay even after the action transfers over to the Discovery beginning with the third episode?

Edited September 25, 2017 by legaleagle53

[Starchild]

Just watched the first two eps of The Orville this afternoon, and these two tonight. Orville was so juvenile, I did not expect DSC to come off worse. But here we are.

[ParadoxLost]

6 hours ago, Peace 47 said:

I don't know why I fell in love with Captain Georgiou so quickly (maybe that's just because I tend to favor the captains on these Trek shows), but super-sad about this.  In a way, these first two episodes are just a prequel to the actual series, it seems.

I can't say I'm surprised given the name of the series.

Did they kill off most of the crew too?  Because they did absolutely nothing to make any of them except Saru anything more than glorified extras.

It doesn't seem like the best idea to set up a series with a two episode prequel and then change it up in episode 3, especially when they are counting on viewers to sign up for a pay service they don't really want just to watch it. 

Edited September 25, 2017 by ParadoxLost

[2727]

I really loved both episodes! The story kept my interest and I'm eager to know where Michael goes from here. A couple of huge twists for sure. I'm only a casual ST viewer so any canonical inconsistencies aren't going to bother me, if I even notice. I'm along for Michael's ride as of now.

Not sure why the acting in the first desert scene between Michael and Georgiou was so terribly stilted and wooden but they seem to have pushed past it.

[tawny411]

Well this episode was better than the first one. The previews actually look good. Michael being on a ship where she's not trusted, and blamed for the conflict with Klingons. I wasn't disappointed that Captain Georgiou died, because I was expecting it. I was already spoiled that Jason Isaacs would be the captain of the Discovery. 

 

I'm glad I watched this. The first episode was so bad I nearly gave up. Whoever said the first two episodes were just prequels to the main series was right

Edited September 25, 2017 by tawny411

[stealinghome]

Yeah, I'm not sure how well the show basically rebooting is going to go over with people who purchased CBS All-Access to watch more of what they got in the pilot. I am also wondering whether killing off Georgiou (who was definitely my fave character in her limited time) is going to be a tactical error for the show. Michael's most interesting, and most likeable, when she's bouncing off Georgiou. I am way less interested in watching Michael mutiny across the galaxy if it's not Georgiou she's mutineeing (mutineering?) against. Plus Michelle Yeoh just rocks.

[tawny411]

I do think TPTB should have been more upfront about the first two episodes being basically a prequel. But I'm looking forward to the switch to Discovery.  I liked Saru but didn't much care for the rest of the first crew. Plus I like Jason Isaacs, and I think this show needs all the good actors it can get.

 

I don't like these rebooted Klingons though. If they were introduced as a new alien race I wouldn't be as bothered. But the makeup bears no resemblance to the Klingons of old. If this show is set in the prime timeline, there needs to be some consistency. And why do they speak so slow and stilted? Worf never talked that way.

[rtms77]

I’m guessing it will be a Ro Laren deal to get Micheal out of prison. They basically rewrote that ep and make it the next one. What was with all the darkness and especially the dark shrouded judges for her trial. The whole spotlight gimmick was silly as if they were determined the Audience had to like her. The science officer senses death because he’s a coward not because of some cool power.  It seems the original forgot they were at war with the Klingons instead of being in a Cold War with them. And I was under the impression that the Romulus’s were the ones with cloaking ships, when did the Klingons get it?

Edited September 25, 2017 by rtms77

[statsgirl]

I thought this episode was better than the first one, maybe because it had more action, maybe because it had more, but not enough, logic.e. But at least there are things I could argue about, such as if they were going to kidnap the Klingon leader, why didn't they put some sort of marker on  him and transfer him to the Sinquon (sp?) even if he was dying. Why couldn't they lock onto Geprgiou?  Even with NVS, there must have been some kind of signal from her suit.

If they were going to have completely different make-up for the Klingons, they should have emphasize that each of the Houses was a different race who had evolved to look different than the ones we know and thrown some familiar ones in there as the ships came in.

I really liked Michelle Yeoh's captain. I'm going to miss her.  From the promos, I get the feeling that Jason Isaac's captain is going to be all mainsplainin' on burnham.

[TDT]

Kind of called it that Yeoh wouldnt be sticking around,seeing as she was listed as"special guest star" in the credits lol

This show has to be set in Kelvin timeline..why would Spock never talk about his sister in later times?

[steelyis]

Well, I didn't hate it.

I liked it, despite both episodes having clunky dialogue the actors didn't know how to sell.

Michelle Yeoh, as usual, managed to rise above the writing so I was sorry to see her go. Everyone else was a mixed bag of serviceable, to kind of awful. Doug Jones came close doing something with his material, but the writing let him down and he couldn't elevate it enough to impress me with his performance. Sonequa Martin-Green was especially uneven. Sometimes I liked what she did with Michael, like when she laughed during her space walk and her banter with Saru and Georgiou. Though most her line delivery made me cringe. She could never quite pull off Vulcan mannerisms and she overacted the scenes that required her to be emotional, which I found off-putting because I couldn't decide if her acting panicked and unhinged with zero nuance was deliberate or just bad acting and/or direction on Sonequa part.

The less said about the new Klingon make-up the better. I mean, why? Just why?

I saw a lot of potential for interesting story-telling, and nothing I've seen so far has given me Star Trek Enterprise concerns, but I think if I hadn't seen the preview for upcoming episodes I would be on the fence about picking up the show.

[thuganomics85]

Had a feeling that Georgiou wasn't long for this world (galaxy?) since Michelle Yeoh was only listed as a special guest star and I already knew that Jason Issacs was going to be showing up as a captain.  I wonder if it was always the plan to kill her off or Yeoh simply only had a number of episodes she was willing to commit too. Of course, I don't think this is necessarily the last time we see her, because I can totally see her popping up in flashbacks or holo-recordings.  Or if/when they ever get to the good old Alt-Universe episodes!

Thought this was a slight improvement over the first hour since it moved by quicker and, while not perfect, Sonequa Martin-Green seemed a little bit more comfortable playing the character, especially with the quips and reactions to having to spacewalk.  I'm glad that Michael is actually facing consequences for what she did, although obviously she won't be jailed for too long.  I'm guessing she'll be another variation of Ro (TNG) or Tom Paris (Voyager), who somehow is reinstated despite their convictions.

At least Saru survived.  He's still the only character I kind of like.

So, the one Klingon dude died, but now the other guy is going to take his spot.  Really wish they were more interesting, but I'm already over them.  Give me a good spat with the Romulans any day of the week!

I'm all for more Sarek/James Frain, but the whole "We can communicate telepathically despite being light years apart!" reveal is already making my head hurt.

Alright, Discovery.  You've got the introduction out of the way.  Shake off the cobwebs and start improving, buddy.

[starri]

3 hours ago, steelyis said:

She could never quite pull off Vulcan mannerisms and she overacted the scenes that required her to be emotional, which I found off-putting because I couldn't decide if her acting panicked and unhinged with zero nuance was deliberate or just bad acting and/or direction on Sonequa part.

Isn't that more because of her background?  She spent her life trying to be Vulcan but couldn't, and didn't quite know how to be human any more.

I can't say I was surprised that Georgiou didn't make it, although given how big Michelle Yeoh has been in the publicity and the massive investment they made in the sets for the Shenzhou, I'm going to hope that we at least see some flashbacks.

I was, however, shocked that T'Kuvma didn't make it.

[cambridgeguy]

Captain Georgiou was a goner the moment they said she wasn't going to be the captain of the Discovery.  She's the Ned Stark of the show although I suspect we'll be seeing her again in flashbacks.   Listing her as a special guest star sure didn't help hide the "surprise".

[jsbt]

Cross-posted thoughts on both eps:

Easily the best pilot since TOS. The production value was second to none, and I loved Burnham and Georgiou together. I wish we'd had more with them, including those flashbacks.

My nitpicks in terms of stuff like exposition are minor considering Trek's love for that stuff in pilots and so forth. I just wish they'd gotten Edgar Wright to do the pilot. And while the uniforms have grown on me as an outgrowth of ENT, I wish we'd seen Bryan Fuller's original take on the primary colors.

Instantly bought Burnham and Saru's dynamic. They work.

Not feeling anyone complaining about Michelle Yeoh's accent - she is one of the best Asian stars out there and has done countless English language roles. She was in full command of that. Same with the Klingons. They have always had vocal issues due to the alien makeup, since TNG. It was most pronounced with the Ferengi but I often saw it on Klingons.

Only real nit: While what Burnham did was treasonous, how does it warrant life imprisonment?? She didn't fire on the Klingons or kick off the war. Further, everyone who survived Shenzhou must have known Georgiou took her on the final mission; that would have to send a message. Another nit: The theme is not a theme AFAIC and while the intro is beautiful it feels like it's unfinished. Maybe that will change.

Burnham was both right about the Klingons and wrong in how she went about it. I hope that's explored in more nuance in future.

Can't wait to see the actual paradigm of the show, but it's a very strong start. The new Klingon look, while a lot to get used to, is still very impressive. And maybe it'll give us an explanation going forward.

Is Ambassador Soval still alive?

[UNOSEZ]

I enjoyed the two parter and will be back for more... I'm not steeped in star trek lore so the canon stuff isn't affecting me the same as some Long time watchers.. I thought Comm.  Burnham portrayed a child raised on Vulcan well... In the flashback to their first meeting she has much more of a Vulcan tone but after 7 years with the captain it's changed... I like that she'll be treated like a pariah for a bit because starfleet hasn't had to deal with any consequences of space travel in a while... It's been peaceful and they've gotten a bit compacent... Maybe even arrogant that everyone will just fall in line and act peaceful... 

[DavidJSnyder]

3 hours ago, jsbt said:

 

Only real nit: While what Burnham did was treasonous, how does it warrant life imprisonment??

Even putting aside whether the punishment was too harsh or not, why was she being tried without a lawyer by people lit so you couldn't see their faces?

[Helena Dax]

Well, I guessed Georgiou was going to die.... It makes some sort of sense on a narrative level, like, you know, the mentor has to die. (Obi Wan for Luke, Dumbledore for Harry Potter, Pike for new Kirk etc.). But it's a pity, because I really liked them as a team. Two women in command of a spaceship? Awesome.

Otoh, the ship dessign looks like the one in "Enterprise" and we know that the Starfleet is already using Constitution-class ships like TOS USS Enterprise, so I wonder if the USS Discovery is one of them. 

Right now, I'm not sure if having Sarek as Michael's tutor was a good idea. I like the guy, but when he was mindmelding with her and being so supportive, all I could think was that at the same time, he wasn't even on speaking terms with Spock. 

[Lebanna]

First, the only thing I didn't like - the Federation should light their judges well enough that the accused can see their faces. Being judged by someone who is kind of hiding their identity from you, while very dramatic, doesn't seem like a very surface-level peace and love Federation style move. More like a Section 31 thing, in fact. 

I wonder if she's going to be sent to New Zealand.

Now what I loved - That image of the cloked Klingon ship kamikazeing the Europa gave me goosebumps it was so stunning. And the Europa kamikazeing it right back.

Burnham forced into leaving her Captain's body behind was a nice echo of Sisko having to leave Jennifer's body at Wolf 359 in the DS9 pilot. I was surprised that Saru was so unemotional about it. I guess being basically Eeyor, he just wasn't surprised. He probably imagines everyone he knows dead at least six times before breakfast, just for practice. I think I'm going to love him best of all. He reminds me a bit of Odo.

Arguing logic with the computer was a lovely touch. I'm really liking Frain's take on Sarek as well - he doesn't seem to have annoyed his daughter as much as he did his sons, but she seems to want to please him, hopelessly, as much as Spock did. I wonder if he was any softer on her because he knew she'd never been Vulcan enough for him anyway, and so accepted her as she was a little more. Or not.

I always love to see the Federation ships all dropping out of warp together, even though they always get destroyed straight afterwards.

Michael not actually attending the Academy just proves my theory that she's basically a better brought up Seven, minus catsuit. It also explains the mutiny thing, although being related to Spock pretty much explained that anyway. That family are definitely free thinkers, I'll give them that.

With that ending, this show is definitely the sequel to ENT. While ENT back in 2001 became all about what America should do in the aftermath of a terror attack (9/11), this show seems to be heading for a story of seemingly never ending war, isolationism, and crumbling societies who choose to tell themselves that they are the best as, because of their exceptionalism, everything falls apart.

I'm so here for this.

Edited September 25, 2017 by Lebanna

[Charlesman]

My nit is that I'm pretty sure that booby trapping corpses is a war crime. Odd choice making your captain look "creative" by having her do something she should know is banned, and, technically commit an atrocity. 

 

Edit: my probable real peeve is that I think the writers thought they were being clever, without realizing they made their hero do something ISIS does, but the Nazi's wouldn't even stoop as low as doing. 

Edited September 25, 2017 by Charlesman

[Lebanna]

6 minutes ago, Charlesman said:

My nit is that I'm pretty sure that booby trapping corpses is a war crime. Odd choice making your captain look "creative" by having her do something she should know is banned, and, technically commit an atrocity. 

Oh, well. Just as well she died so they couldn't court-martial her. It was certainly worse than just cheating, to get out of the Kobayashi Maru.

Edited September 25, 2017 by Lebanna

[Unusual Suspect]

I'll admit, the long distance mindmeld made me roll my eyes a bit, though the actual dialogue between Burnham and Sarek was really good. We've now had three Sareks, and I've been happy with all of them.

Edited September 25, 2017 by Unusual Suspect

[steelyis]

5 hours ago, starri said:

Isn't that more because of her background?  She spent her life trying to be Vulcan but couldn't, and didn't quite know how to be human any more.

 

That's what I thought at first, but Michael was terrible at projecting cool, Vulcan-like logic even in moments of low stress when it should have been easy to put on the facade of being collected. It made it hard to believe she had any training controlling her emotions or learned the discipline that's a prerequisite for Starfleet officers in command positions. Instead, she was portrayed as though she could barely temper her emotions most of the time and I found her characterization very off-putting.

[TV Anonymous]

16 hours ago, AEMom said:

Dear Space network:

How do you manage to block the time for the two episodes and then add a bunch of interview crap at the beginning of the first one so that it gets cut off?

Not sure how much I missed,  but I'm retaping the 2nd hour of their next airing during the night.

Star Trek pilots are never that great so I'm reserving judgement for the time being.

Because Space and CTV simsubbed the first episode from CBS. As the football game on CBS ran into overtime, CBS was delayed in starting the first episode. Thus the episode on CTV and Space also started on the same time it started on CBS. I suppose that this will not happen again as next week onward there will be no simsub.

16 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

I imagine there are those who feel and are already screaming that this is proof that sexism and misogyny are alive and well in the Trek franchise, otherwise why else would they kill off the female captain within the first two episodes after giving viewers the impression that she's going to be a mainstay even after the action transfers over to the Discovery beginning with the third episode?

As soon as I saw in the credit that Yeoh was a Guest Star, I knew she would not stay.

[TV Anonymous]

And just to set the terminology straight, a prequel is an artistic work whose story precedes  those of previous work. Therefore these two episodes are not prequel, they are prologue.

[Ceindreadh]

I figured the Captain was a goner when Michelle Yeoh was listed as a special guest star and I thought for sure she'd go out on the suicide mission. Then they got my hopes up by having her think of a different plan, only to dash them again on the Klingon ship. But then they didn't manage to bring back her body, so now I'm wondering if it will turn out that her life signs were just too weak to be picked up on the sensors and if the Klingons will manage to keep her alive as a hostage (or even to simply prevent her from having a warriors death)

[Lebanna]

I like all the theories flying around.

I've been thinking about this show a bit more and I realized  that the Fringe connection may have something to do with why Burnham with her rebellious attitude to perfectly awesome mentors and traumatic childhood backstory reminds me a little of Olivia Dunham. Including the surnames. And the fact that this has some of that show's staff on board.

Both characters have been trained into becoming more logical and unemotional than they are naturally comfortable with at very young ages. But Burnham probably never tried to kill Sarek, so she may be one up there.

And of course there was that time Dunham had Leonard Nimoy's katra and the actress did the most hilarious and brilliant impression of him for quite a while. I loved that show.

 

My other thought was that we might get some story mirroring or some kind of connection between Michael's life as an orphan ward and the albino Klingon with no father or family (or perhaps his father just has no honour and has been disowned).

I expect that Sarek or Amanda will turn out to have some close connection with the Burnham family, either through blood, marriage or a close friendship, and Michael's name and relationship with both of her families is clearly central to her personality and life choices.

Frankly, I'm expecting Sarek to have been Michael's father's best bud (ok,  maybe just most respected colleague), for Burnham senior to have introduced Sarek and Amanda in the first place, and for Senior to have also been named Michael. There was something about how Sarek was calling her name in the flashback, almost desperately, that suggested some deeper meaning and connection there. But she could have just been Amanda's pupil at the school or something.

Edited September 25, 2017 by Lebanna

[statsgirl]

5 hours ago, Charlesman said:

My nit is that I'm pretty sure that booby trapping corpses is a war crime. Odd choice making your captain look "creative" by having her do something she should know is banned, and, technically commit an atrocity. 

It's a war crime here because both sides agreed that it's a war crime. I'm not so sure the those Klingons would see it as such.

13 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

I'm all for more Sarek/James Frain, but the whole "We can communicate telepathically despite being light years apart!" reveal is already making my head hurt.

That bugged me so much.  So light takes years to travel but mind communication is instant over those distances?

[stealinghome]

45 minutes ago, Ceindreadh said:

I figured the Captain was a goner when Michelle Yeoh was listed as a special guest star and I thought for sure she'd go out on the suicide mission. Then they got my hopes up by having her think of a different plan, only to dash them again on the Klingon ship. But then they didn't manage to bring back her body, so now I'm wondering if it will turn out that her life signs were just too weak to be picked up on the sensors and if the Klingons will manage to keep her alive as a hostage (or even to simply prevent her from having a warriors death)

fwiw, here is what one of the producers said when asked about Georgiou (warning, the whole interview is spoilery):

 

Quote

So Georgiou is really dead, right? You’re not pulling a Jon Snow on us?

Here’s what I will say: Yes, 100 percent, she’s really dead. That being said, have patience with us.

So she's like "dead, BUT" right now and we'll see her again in the future. Any ideas on what the but is? I'm guessing he means we'll see a healthy dose of her in flashbacks, maybe as a hologram sim in realtime, or maybe we meet some alternate universe version of her at some point. I'm guessing #1 myself.

Edited September 25, 2017 by stealinghome

[Jodithgrace]

Quote

albino Klingon with no father or family (or perhaps his father just has no honour and has been disowned).

So, he's Vo'Q Snow? 

[CanadaPhil]

7 hours ago, Charlesman said:

My nit is that I'm pretty sure that booby trapping corpses is a war crime. Odd choice making your captain look "creative" by having her do something she should know is banned.

Really?... OK.

I hope they do a flashback episode of the imaginary future Klingons visiting future New York to become signatories to the future Geneva Convention.

I wonder if the future Klingons took in a future Broadway show... or a future Yankees game. They will probably manage to get into all sorts of comical shenanigans. 

[Charlesman]

22 minutes ago, CanadaPhil said:

Really?... OK.

I hope they do a flashback episode of the imaginary future Klingons visiting future New York to become signatories to the future Geneva Convention.

I wonder if the future Klingons took in a future Broadway show... or a future Yankees game. They will probably manage to get into all sorts of comical shenanigans. 

 

We abide by the rules even when our opponents don't. ISIS does all sorts of stuff the Geneva Conventions outlaw, but we don't resort to mustard gas, poisoned bullets, or biological weapons.

There are lots of times when Picard, Kirk, et al would love to do something but are bound by Federation ethics, irrelevant of the ethics of the planet they're on at the time. That dedication to the ideals was absent here. 

Edited September 25, 2017 by Charlesman

[CanadaPhil]

1 minute ago, Charlesman said:

 

We abide by the rules even when our opponents don't. 

In a purple sky World... perhaps.

In the REAL world, Georgiou gets high-fives and "Atta-Gurls" all around.

Just like when Prince Boneyhead received "Atta-.... ummm... whatevs" all around when he agreed to a cease fire and peaceful dialogue with the defacto representative of Humanity but instead had a ship de-cloak without warning and cut the Admiral's in two. His minions thought that was just great.

You think WAR should be "fair"? It doesn't work thay way and it never will. 

[Charlesman]

17 minutes ago, CanadaPhil said:

In a purple sky World... perhaps.

In the REAL world, Georgiou gets high-fives and "Atta-Gurls" all around.

Just like when Prince Boneyhead received "Atta-.... ummm... whatevs" all around when he agreed to a cease fire and peaceful dialogue with the defacto representative of Humanity but instead had a ship de-cloak without warning and cut the Admiral's in two. His minions thought that was just great.

You think WAR should be "fair"? It doesn't work thay way and it never will. 

 

Sisko took an entire episode to decide whether or not to be deceptive in war against the Dominion in DS9, then deleted the log entry about actually doing it once. Federation ideals are the backbone of the vision of Star Trek. I really don't think the writers here gave it a second thought.

[TV Anonymous]

31 minutes ago, Charlesman said:

We abide by the rules even when our opponents don't. ISIS does all sorts of stuff the Geneva Conventions outlaw, but we don't resort to mustard gas, poisoned bullets, or biological weapons.

There are lots of times when Picard, Kirk, et al would love to do something but are bound by Federation ethics, irrelevant of the ethics of the planet they're on at the time. That dedication to the ideals was absent here. 

Come on now, why is today's rules of war be applied to a fictional, futuristic situation? We do not even know if Geneva Conventions still in force at that time. As well, this show is set on a different time as TOS and TNG. Who knows what kind of Laws and Directives are applicable? Besides, that universe is decidedly not in the same continuum as ours. We are in 2017, where is the Eugenics War and WWIII? That universe may not recognize the Geneva Conventions at all.

[CanadaPhil]

7 minutes ago, Charlesman said:

 

Federation ideals are the backbone of the vision of Star Trek. 

 

Lol... I like you chuck.

You make me chuckle. 

[CanadaPhil]

Georgiou pulled a John Sheridan.

The Klingons got "Babylon Fived"

[marinw]

I admit I liked James Frain’s Sarak more in this episode. 

I am not fluent in Klingon, but are these Klingons speaking a different dialect of Klingon? Do Klingons speak more than one language? Or do they sound weird with all that makeup? In any case, I can’t lake these Klingons seriously.

I shudder to think what this show will do to the Romulans or the Borg if they show up. (The Borg showed up in Enterprise, so all things are possible).

So did Michael even go to Starfleet Academy?

So why just send the Captian and First Officer over? Are there no security guards? With all due respect, Starfleet combat training and a couple of phasers is no match for a ship full of huge Klingons. Even Kirk and Spock took a few redshirts with them on away missions.

Or right, there are no redshirts, they are all wearing overly complicated pantsuits.

Edited September 26, 2017 by marinw

[CanadaPhil]

11 minutes ago, marinw said:

.....

I shudder to think what this show will do to the Romulans ...

No worries...

They have a lot of breathing room before they could even come close to equalling this level of 80's cheese..

 

[marinw]

1 minute ago, CanadaPhil said:

No worries...

They have a lot of breathing room before they could even come close to equalling this level of 80's cheese..

Awesome! The Romulans may have been introduced on TOS to save money on makeup: two alien species for the price of one! But the Romulans went on to become fascinating Frenemies to the Federation. They are not just evil Vulcans, they are quite nuanced.

[Florinaldo]

So the whole plot of the season openers can be summarized as: Federation and Klingons meet, officers squabble and fight with each other, big battle destroys a huge number of ships and lead character is sent to prison but not for long of course.

It took them 2 whole hours to convey only that? One episode would have been sufficient, especially since most of the characters we met are now dead or have moved on.

That is a great way to build viewers' interest. Especially with the deal CBS saddles its customers with in the US (I am glad I have access to the show on Space here in Canada).

Has the nature of the ancient artefact/ship found in that asteroid field been explained? Has it been described as Klingon (I fear I lost interest at a few points in the episode)? It looked very much like a ship from the Babylon 5 universe by the way.

At least the sight of ships dropping out of warp and coming to a complete stop in just fractions of a second will never cease to amuse me in its disregard for the laws of physics.

It seems this show will continue the tradition established by TNG of periodically destroying a good sized chunk of the Federation fleet. It's a wonder that organisation can sustain the drain on raw materials and manpower necessary to replenish it.

[catrice2]

The jury is still out for me on this show.  Although I figured that Michelle Yeoh was not going to be in it long once I heard about Jason Issac, I can't deny I was looking forward to seeing her.  She was the main reason I tuned in and had  hoped they would kill her off later in the season.  

[tennisgurl]

This episode was better than the last one, but I admit to being very disappointed in the death of Georgiou near the end. Yeah I saw it coming (Special Guest Star credit and all that) but it still really sucks. She was my favorite character of the pilot, and now I just have Michael, who I haven't really warmed up to yet, and the nervous alien guy, who we dont know well. Hopefully we get to know the new cast in the next episode, because we are already on the third episode, and have only met three characters we will actually be sticking with so far! 

The season itself though does look promising. The premise of Michael being in a ship full of people who blame her for the conflict, while also dealing with her own guilt and issues with her parents death, as well as the whole human raised by Vulcans thing, could make for a more interesting character. I do hope they let her lighten up at some point though, even if its awhile down the road. Her most likable moments before were bantering with her captain, and her excitement at being in space. I am a bit nervous about them doing a fully serialized show though. On the one hand, serialization can lead to more complicated stories and characters, which is very much a good thing. DS9 was very serialized, and its my favorite Trek series of all time. But on the other hand, I hope they still allow us to have a few memorable one off episode, where they can use Trek themes to talk about modern issues in the same way the other shows have, for better or for worse. 

I still think its shitty of CBS to force its American viewers to pay for this thing though. I mean, isn't it pretty ridiculous that people have to pay to watch a show about a society that doesent even have currency? 

[marinw]

The more I think about Sarek’s relationship with Michael, the less sense it makes. Sarek’s relationship with Spock was fraught, and he had contempt for Spock’s humanity. His pain and regret over this was so palatable in the excellent TNG episodes “Sarek” and also in “Unification, Part 1”.  Yet he has formed a bond with a human girl? True, he married a human woman, so he obviously has less racism towards humans than other Vulcans. And maybe he was harder on his biological son than his adopted daughter. 

Then there was Sybok. The less said about him the better.

Edited September 26, 2017 by marinw