S25.E03: Week 2: Latin Night

[MsJamieDornan]

5 minutes ago, Callaphera said:

Why would you do that?

Scary

[vdw84]

Lindsay S. lacks sex appeal. I was wondering what it was about her that is off and its her very conservative almost childlike manner. She is very basic and bland. Great dancer but she does not add the spice as someone like Vanessa does or even Sasha and they r not as great dancer as she is.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Tonight's performances:

Spoiler

Opening number

Nick & Peta - tango

Sasha & Gleb - samba

Victoria & Val - rumba

Derek & Sharna - paso

Jordan & Lindsay - samba

Nikki & Artem - samba

Drew & Emma - rumba

Debbie & Alan - Argentine tango

Vanessa & Maks - salsa

Lindsey & Mark - salsa

Terrell & Cheryl - samba

Frankie & Witney - cha cha

 

[Toonces464]

1 hour ago, Laurie14 said:

Erin's outfits, 99% of the time, are terrible. I don't get it, she's young, tall, good looking, has a nice figure, and they dress her in the most bizarre, unflattering outfits. She also had way too much make-up on tonight.

Erin needs to find a stylist that works well for her and stick with them. Over the years I've noticed she changes stylists frequently, usually going with whoever is dressing someone she's fangirling over, and it never ends well for her. I still remember the hideous short dress she wore a few years ago to the NHL Awards where you could literally see her crotch as she walked down the stairs. Tonight's monstrosity may be the worst I've ever seen her look. And in addition to the bad makeup it looked like she hit the Botox a bit too hard.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Okay, so ABC is fine with using a song with lyrics about taking your clothes off but they won't let the singers use the word ASS? That makes no fucking sense.

I think Lindsey has the female version of Drew's problem - the long, gangly, awkward limbs. She reminds me of Taylor Swift with the coltish arms and legs. Lindsey can learn choreography but there's something about the quality of her movement that's not as precise as I'd like and that makes her continue to look like the amateur celeb that she is.

Sharna gets points for choreographing a routine that's almost entirely dancing. It's only the third episode and I'm already sick of most of the pros putting 20-30 second non-dancing intros into these 60 second routines. I think Nick did a total of 20 seconds of actual dancing.

Technically there was dancing in Drew's routine, but Emma was the one doing all the dancing. Drew just got to stand there, hold an arm up, lean out on one leg, walk a few steps, and basically be her prop.

[PhD-Purgatory15]

Lindsey S. is a devout Mormon. So I'm thinking that has played and will continue to play a role in the lack of overt sex appeal in the routines that Mark is creating for her. I'm sure we're not going to see much skin in the wardrobe department from her either (yeah, Nikki Bella's week one outfit or anything similar would have been a hard pass I'm guessing).

Edited September 27, 2017 by PhD-Purgatory15

[PBGamer89]

2 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Okay, so ABC is fine with using a song with lyrics about taking your clothes off but they won't let the singers use the word ASS? That makes no fucking sense.

I think Lindsey has the female version of Drew's problem - the long, gangly, awkward limbs. She reminds me of Taylor Swift with the coltish arms and legs. Lindsey can learn choreography but there's something about the quality of her movement that's not as precise as I'd like and that makes her continue to look like the amateur celeb that she is.

Sharna gets points for choreographing a routine that's almost entirely dancing. It's only the third episode and I'm already sick of most of the pros putting 20-30 second non-dancing intros into these 60 second routines. I think Nick did a total of 20 seconds of actual dancing.

Technically there was dancing in Drew's routine, but Emma was the one doing all the dancing. Drew just got to stand there, hold an arm up, lean out on one leg, walk a few steps, and basically be her prop.

Honestly that could be said of about 90% of all male celebs since season 1.

[McManda]

3 hours ago, PBGamer89 said:

while the mediocre males like Nick, Derek, Terrell, or Drew are still here after 2 eliminations

We've had two eliminations and Barbara was arguably the right prison to go on Monday. I don't really agree that Debbie was the right person to go home tonight, but most of this season (bar Jordan) is all kind of on the same-ish level in terms general dance ability + popularity so I'm not sure anyone else was going to go over her. Hardly the time to cry foul against women.

That's the kind of season this is going to be, I think. This show has never, ever been solely about dance ability, though they tried very hard to make it like that with the season 1 redo fan dance off. They very quickly gave that up when Drew won over Stacey the next season.

Also, people vote for stupid reasons. Vote for the worst is a thing, not watching the show and voting because someone is on a specific team/plays a specific sport, or just because you connect with that person. Voting for a male because their personality is adorable over a woman whose dance ability is better doesn't mean you hate women.

I don't think she's a ringer necessarily (though taking lessons for professional/person reasons from a DWTS pro does bring into question qualifications for this show, imo), but I'm not really connecting with Lindsay. Much of that is probably Mark. Also, let's be real, her being a good dancer is probably high on the list of why he came back. I don't think he'd have come back to be paired with Barbara.

On the flip side, I don't really connect with Jordan at this point either and nothing really stands out to me about him other than he's probably going to nail a lot of his dances. The fact he's likely trained with someone, somewhere, isn't helping him with me, so I'm apparently a crack in the "male ringers get a pass from everyone all the time" theory. 

This season so far is pretty meh to me, so as far as I'm concerned it's an open field. Except TO, I wouldn't mind seeing him go. He's okay when he doesn't talk, but once he opens his mouth I remember why I don't like him. Sorry Cheryl.

Quote

Drew just got to stand there, hold an arm up, lean out on one leg, walk a few steps, and basically be her prop.

Welcome to basic rumba? I feel that way about 99% of the rumbas on this show. I did think that Drew's was less awful than a lot of other male celeb rumbas in the past, though. 

Edited September 27, 2017 by McManda

[ElectricBoogaloo]

30 minutes ago, McManda said:

This show has never, ever been solely about dance ability, though they tried very hard to make it like that with the season 1 redo fan dance off. They very quickly gave that up when Drew won over Stacey the next season.

Heh, I'm still bitter about stompy Drew winning instead of Stacey!

I'm totally fine with ringers. There's never going to be a completely level playing field where none of the celebs have any previous experience at anything requiring coordination. I'd rather watch celebs like Stacey Kiebler, Jennifer Grey, Laurie Hernandez, and Zendaya learn and competently perform ballroom dances than watch non-ringer celebs like Master P, Woz, and Tucker Carlson get dragged around the dance floor. 

This season there doesn't seem as big as a divide in the coordination of the celebs. In previous seasons, there would be one or two who were obviously good out of the gate, a few hopelessly left footed people who could barely walk on the beat, and then a middle pack of people who were neither great nor awful with the potential to improve over the season.

This time around, it seemed like Jordan was great in week 1, Barbara was pretty bad, and everyone else was okay but not great. Now that Barbara is gone, it will be interesting to see who improves. 

I don't think Debbie was the worst dancer of the 12 celebs we were left with, but that just goes to show the importance of fan bases. 

[calipiano81]

PBGamer89, I completely agree with everything you've posted about the expectations and attitude towards the female contestants vs. the expectations and attitude towards the male contestants.

Tonight for example, I think Frankie's high score, as well as all the fan adoration so far, has been completely based on expectation. Yes, he was better than probably a lot of people expected him to be at the cha cha, but it's such a slap to the face to Lindsey, Vanessa, even Sasha, who were executing much more content with better technique and higher difficulty. If Frankie were a female, I don't think his dance would have gotten higher than a 7 and it would not be getting as many raves.

Edited September 27, 2017 by calipiano81

[blaase]

This season is so boring these dlisters are dull. I guess Frankie Munoz for the win?

[PBGamer89]

Still my point was not the presence of ringers but how female ringers are hated and crucified each week and told they dont belong, they're too good and it's not fair to the less trained.

But you have Jordan getting little zero hate or backlash, even Alfonso, a huge male ringer got nearly zero ringer backlash.

Jordan is the only ringer so shouldn't that mean more focus on his obvious training and dance background? No, but if Normani was on this season by herself without the buffer of Nancy, Heather or Simone, she would've gotten 10x the hate she got last season for being a ringer. Males getting treated way better in general that a male ringer it's just ten times easier.

That's my point in a nutshell. I like ringers, but the hatred for the females versus the males is disgusting.

[spanana]

Alfonso did get backlash. Maybe people didn't see it, but I saw it. Often the backlash is coming from fans of their biggest competition/other pros.  So the Janel fans and some of the C bros fans were not kind to him and balking about his experience constantly.

Also there are many, many both males and females on this show that I have not been able to get into over the years whether they were ringers or not.  Me saying that I don't love Lindsey as yet but enjoying Jordan or Frankie does not mean that I hate women or female ringers. Granted I don't vote much period but I loved Paige and wanted her to win. I loved Zendaya and certainly defended her against a lot of the crap being spewed about her.  But by the same token I did support Drew Lachey in his original run.  Who I support season to season is very much specific to who the celebs are that season and what general impressions they make on me, dance or otherwise.  Sometimes they are ringers and sometimes they aren't.  Sometimes they are women and sometimes they aren't.

Nancy was one of my faves last season and I don't remember her getting a ton of backlash due to experience.  At all.  I wish she lasted longer but I don't think her being kicked off had anything do with her being considered a ringer.

I'll also be frankly honest. Me preferring Rashad over Normani for the win last season had very little to do with them and almost everything to do with me not being able to stand Val and wanting to reward Emma...so it's also hard to play these games when there is a partnership happening and in many ways my support of Rashad was about Emma...a woman I wanted to see win.  Whereas I strongly dislike Val of late and unfortunately that generally means I don't vote for his partners.  So feelings about partners do matter and play a role here.  As said, Jordan lucked out to have a partner who has been growing in popularity season to season and who fans seem ready to reward.

Even people not talking about TO more, maybe is just because TO may be an ass, but he's not even a memorable ass and there are more interesting things to talk about.

Show related, didn't realize Lindsey S. was Mormon.

Edited September 27, 2017 by spanana

[alexa]

Quote

We didn't have to sit through another married couple joint interview again but could Vanessa can it with the ridiculous Mommy stuff? No one cares! Women have been having babies for centuries! You're not some Sooper Speshul Mommy because you popped a kid out. Damn, woman. Do you not have an identity outside of that?

I never get this either.  Although of course I put plenty of effort into being a mom, I don't like to be one of those people that always focus on being a "mommy", and mommy annoys me anyway.  It is one thing for your young child to call you that, but who uses that word past a certain age, lol?  These people annoy other moms because they make being a mom seem super cheesy, rather than a normal life thing that you balance with the rest of your life.  Yes it is special, but as you said having an identity outside of that is very important.  I do like her dancing though, just not the over the top reactions as if she is brand new to life just because she had some children.

[McManda]

1 hour ago, spanana said:

and in many ways my support of Rashad was about Emma...a woman I wanted to see win.

I think, in the midst of an argument a about the treatment of women celebs on this show, it's deliciously ironic to consider that the reason people vote for potentially less gifted male dancers is to support their hardworking, talented female partners. I'm in.

I'm also with you on being bored with the partnerships of past seasons and voting, when I did, for someone new. By no fault of her own it's hard to muster up enthusiasm for the female ringer again paired with Derek, or the young ingenue paired with Val. It's boring. Maybe if someone like Normani had been partnered with, I don't know, Artem I would have been more interested in her.

I still think everyone (sans Jordan) is on the same kind of playing field in terms of ability + fanbase so I think this season is going to be a grab bag of eliminations. Buckle up for the ride.

[tessaforever]

1 hour ago, alexa said:

I never get this either.  Although of course I put plenty of effort into being a mom, I don't like to be one of those people that always focus on being a "mommy", and mommy annoys me anyway.  It is one thing for your young child to call you that, but who uses that word past a certain age, lol?  These people annoy other moms because they make being a mom seem super cheesy, rather than a normal life thing that you balance with the rest of your life.  Yes it is special, but as you said having an identity outside of that is very important.  I do like her dancing though, just not the over the top reactions as if she is brand new to life just because she had some children.

I liked that we got to see/hear more about Vanessa's career. Honestly I didn't know what she was known for except for being married to Nick. So that was nice, actually. Her dance was good, not amazing, but her pants and shoes were awful. 

I loved Lindsey and Mark's dance. Lindsey's flexibility is insane! I've watched the videos of her playing the violin and never gotten the impression she could dance (she sways and grooves a lot, but that's all) so does she have prior training? 

Drew may have had to just "be there" for Emma in the rumba, but I've seen lots of celebs "be there" pretty badly, and Drew did a good job - I noticed he was paying attention to details in his arm and foot placement. 

What....the heck was up with Val and the "rumba" he choreographed for Victoria? Was that some kind of practical joke? We know he can do a classic rumba (Rumer) so I didn't get that at all. Maybe Victoria was truly incapable of doing rumba-type moves - continuous movement, hip action. I don't know. That was really weird. The fact that she got some faint praise for that is confirmation that she is getting graded on a different curve, because anyone else would have been excoriated for that. 

Peta: I don't need to see anymore of your hip flexors or keep wondering who does your waxing. Thanks. 

[katha]

Jordan was expectedly good. I'm repeating myself, but he's just on another level than everybody else. He has body control that none of the others can match, for obvious reasons. Lindsey was entertaining today as well, if slightly gangly and awkward. Relieved to see that Mark delivered strong choreography again, I was a bit concerned after that lackluster quickstep. Getting her limbs under control is where I see potential for growth with Lindsey. Vanessa was cool once again, and I was pleased to see that the nonsense at the beginning was toned down. Now, if Maks could focus just on choreography, that would be lovely. Because every performance so far, once they start dancing, it's all good. The side by side portion was really strong, I thought. Also thought that she was better today than yesterday, but got slightly better scores for her foxtrot. The judges are just weird and inconsistent. Frankie is a pleasant surprise. Debbie wasn't the worst dancer left, but she faded into the background. She hasn't much fanbase, neither has Alan. That's what happens.

About the ringer thing: I think it's a bit complicated? Because, by and large, there have been more female "ringers" (or at least female contestants with some form of relevant experience) throughout the years. So of course some of them made it far and/or won. Male ringers tend to stay around for a long time (whereas there's no guarantee of that with the women), but they don't necessarily win. I think there's sexism present in some of the general audience's reaction to all sorts of female celebs on the show. But being a ringer is one aspect, not necessarily always the most important one there. Heather, for example, was cool and introverted. That doesn't go over so well. Obvious displays of self-confidence, asserting yourself, being perceived as aggressive...yeah, no. Nastia became an instant DWTS legend for telling TPTB to shove it. But she had the deadly combination of being introverted, self-confident and strong-willed. Also Russian, they like to "play around" with various xenophobic stereotypes in these packages as well (all the Eastern European pros have had to deal with that BS throughout the years).

Frankie didn't deserve that 9 and perhaps it's true that there's a willingness to reward "charming males" for trying and being better than expected. While female contestants have to be good, and even that often isn't enough. And yeah, perhaps Jordan's personality structure wouldn't play so well with a woman. You'd have the same calls of "try-hard, arrogant, cocky, thinks she's the greatest" that usually come in such a situation. But it is what it is, the show's been on for so long, it won't suddenly change for the better in its old age. (-;

Edited September 27, 2017 by katha

[Boofish]

Every time I see mention of Debbie and Alan, I read it as Debbie Allen. Just me? Indifferent about her leaving since she had no shot at winning

Humble brag - I have predicted the final 4 (correctly) for the last 5 seasons. This year I'm going with Lindsey, Vanessa, Frankie and Jordan. With Jordan coming in 4th beat out by the quirky and natural dancer (Lindsey), the adorable dork with natural rhythm (Vanessa) and the whole package (Frankie). I think Lindsey and Frankie will make it to the final 2 and if Mark can stop with all his finale antics (bicycles, video games etc.), he may just pull off his third win.

[ladylaw99]

Finally caught up on the last 2 weeks of this show.  

This season is already better than the last.    There is alot of potential. 

I am finding the pro's are getting on my nerves more than the contestants.  I use to think that Val was a little bit smarter at playing the game then Mals but nope., if his head gets any bigger it's going to explode.  I just thought he was rude.  Len can be tough and picky out of all the judges , but call me crazy I like the guy and tend to agree with some of the things he says.

I really like Frankie.  Did he deserve the 9 no, but he is so humble, sweet and has great potential.  I also like Jordan.  He's got the "it" factor and I have always liked Lindsey.  

I can take Vanessa in small doses but I think Maks will screw it up.

Everyone else I can`t remember so that is probable a bad thing.

[boyznkatz]

I really hope Jordan and Lindsay are the F2. Vanessa, Frankie and Sasha are probably the second tier, and I guess I want one of them to get the third spot.

I really don't get the judges' Frankie love. He is affable and okay as a dancer, but the 9 was ridiculous. 

Although I don't have PCOS, I appreciated Sasha sharing her story. I really like Gleb this season as well. When he drops the sex schtick, he is pretty likeable.

I guess I don't dislike TO that much because he does seem to be listening to Cheryl and the judges, and he has improved greatly. I would take him over boring Nick or Drew.

Edited September 27, 2017 by boyznkatz

[Lady Calypso]

I will say that the reason I think that Lindsey didn't need a 9, as much as I liked the dance, because some of her transitions threw me off. A lot of her arm action was awkward for me, and I can't quite explain why. Her dance just wasn't as smooth as I wanted it to be. It was great technically, though, so I'm happy for her well deserved scores.

I do think Jordan deserved a nine, though. His dance was awesome when I watched this morning. It was filled with dancing and a lot of choreography. I loved Frankie's dance, but it WAS a lot of style but not as much dancing as there could have been. However, I still thought Frankie's was good and really fun to watch, which is why I'm not upset at him getting the highest score of the night. I'm sure Jordan and Lindsey will come back up on top next week, and I think this was a huge confident boost for Frankie. 

I remember last season, I was really rooting for Nancy and Nick, and then they both got eliminated on the same night, and then I didn't really have anyone else to root for, so I started rooting for Normani for her being the best dancer, and Rashad for his growth and talent over the season. This season, I'm definitely rooting for Frankie, for his genuine likeability and overall surprising ability to dance while being completely humble by the experience, Jordan for his own talent even if he is a ringer, and Lindsey because I think she's got something going for her that I want to see more of. 

I do think Jordan's getting to the finale, and I know Lindsey has a huge fanbase that'll help get her there too. I'm thinking that Frankie will take that third spot in the finale because the audience seems to adore him, and I do think he's getting great scores. It just all depends on the votes. I'm debating whether Victoria or Vanessa will get fourth place, though. Victoria's likeable as a person and she has a joy about her that's very infectious, but her dancing is about what I expected from her. Val's good at utilising other ways to showcase Victoria's ability, but he's also doing very basic moves with her since I don't think she's able to do as much as he wants (I assume the rumba had to be altered for her because she may be unable to do all the constant hip action). Vanessa's good at dancing than the others, but I don't know if she has a big enough fanbase to get her that fourth place. Maks' fanbase may get her far, but she'll have to come up with something else to get the attention of the viewers. Sasha may also be a contender because of her PLL fanbase. 

[deemac]

I'ts amazing sometimes the piddling little things that influence thoughts about the dancers.  Jordan should be an instant like for me but that hair!  (I know it's popular now days and the same for the current Artem style).  The same also for the bottle blondes that don't keep up their roots.  I'm old....and have been bottle blonde before.....and back in the day having dark roots was considered slutty.  A silly little thing that drives me nuts and colors my perception about performers.

 

That said....with the super short dances and somewhat level playing field I'm sorta bored this season.

[bealled]

I haven't had a chance to watch yet, but I'm disappointed Debbie left. I knew she wouldn't win, but I actually thought she did really well and was better than some of the men still left. However, I knew Terrell probably has a decent fanbase and didn't expect him to leave this early. Unfortunately Debbie just isn't super relevant currently so didn't have the votes.

In regards to the sexism comments, I definitely think it has some part in how viewers watch the show. People were hating constantly on Normani last season. I imagine some of that had to do with being paired with Val, but she was clearly a great dancer and people just seemed adamant to dislike her. Jordan appears to be far more of a ringer to me this season, but nobody seems to care... Maybe as the season progresses and gets toward the final the reaction will change. At this point I actually don't think Jordan will win, but I do think he will make the finals. Although dependent on the freestyle, he could win. I think this will be a competitive season with some unpredictable results.

[spanana]

I'm not going to defend Val for his stupid comment to Len, but Val had to know that wasn't a rumba.  My guess is that Victoria wasn't really able to do the proper rumba moves, so Val did what he had to do in such a short time frame and moved it in a contemp lite direction.  He also probably didn't want to throw Victoria under the bus in front of Len and America and point out her inabilities (even if not her fault and related to her situation).  So instead of just remaining quiet and taking the critique, he opened his mouth and spewed some other nonsense.

As for Lindsey, I think her slightly odd arms at times is still her coming to terms with what to do with them sans violin.  She's so used to dancing around with her violin that I think she's still adjusting.

[TeeMo]

My takeaways from last night:

1. I love Frankie. I love it when someone on this show comes out of nowhere and takes me by surprise. It doesn't happen often but it is happening with Frankie this season. That 9 was ridiculous but I am wondering if he needs a little help from the judges at this stage in the game because he is not coming in with as much of a fanbase as some of the others. 

2. I am still not sold that Vanessa is as good as the judges want us to think she is but I do enjoy the dynamic she has with Maks. Maks has annoyed me for several seasons in a row now so as a former big time Maks fan, I appreciate the change. 

3. I was bummed but not surprised that Debbie went home. I thought her AT was far superior to Nick's and would have liked to see her stick around a bit longer. Alan has always annoyed me a bit but he did a decent job in his first pro season.

4. Mark's partner is good but she still doesn't do it for me. She had 2 fast paced dances this week so maybe that is the issue but her dancing feels a little frantic to me. I don't know. Maybe she will grow on me. 

5. Jordan and Lindsay were fantastic. He quite obviously has a training advantage but kudos to Lindsay (or whoever she is working with) for putting together such an amazing dance. It was fun AND super sexy without trying too hard or coming across raunchy (*cough* Peta, *cough* Artem)

6. I love this show but 2 nights back to back of 2 hours of performances is too much. I was pretty checked out by the end last night.

Edited September 27, 2017 by TeeMo

[Cupcake04]

12 hours ago, Emily-D said:

Frankie’s going to the finals and could genuinely win, he’s so likeable! Who on earth is voting for Terrell? While yesterday I gave most of my votes to Frankie, I gave the majority of my votes to Nikki tonight because I felt so bad for her being scored lower than Terrell. Still can’t stand Vanessa, right now I think the top four is looking nailed. Frankie, Victoria, Jordan and Lindsey in any order.

Me, for one.

[enthus-pro]

Thoughts on contestants for week 2 (in alphabetical order):

 

Frankie & Witney - thought Frankie wholly bought into the Witney's cha cha choreography, and that it was nice to see his confidence and natural freedom emerge from his body after two consecutive dances in hold. Liked how he commanded the stage with the two pros on top, and played off of a sassy Witney with ease throughout; liked how Carrie Ann made a proper assessment of Frankie week 1 as well. Still think he'll continue to hone in on the technique (better forward locks; keeping palm face down/foot placement care when opening out) and to watch his rising shoulders (all dances). But most definite a fun, pleasant surprise and curious to see how he progresses in the weeks ahead.

 

Jordan & Lindsay - thought their samba had a special theme/vibe that was unique – unfamiliar - yet whose pleasant aroma piqued one's senses (Bruno). Liked Jordan's flexibility on top, the ensuing batucadas, then straight into the samba runs (maybe back leg could straighten a bit). Thought it was nice that Lindsay weaved in plenty of samba content throughout to appease all three judges. Agree that the pointed nature/feel of his feet (esp at the top), gave the routine a bit of a light, fluffy look to the dance, instead of the desired feel/look of Jordan digging into the wooden floor. But thought it was nice to experience the foreign, exquisite warmth of the samba, making one wish that the dance could have continued on a bit further.

 

Lindsey & Mark - nice to see Lindsey complementing the perky percussion instruments at the top, and thought the style of the salsa dance and music fit her body's personality/movement the best. Wrapping the vocals with her nonchalant hands, and weaving her flexible legs with the beats - thought there were moments where her body was like a latin instrument playing alongside the lively salsa band. Agree that though the salsa routine lacked any staging/props, the spontaneous dancing alone was able to conjure up images of a crowded floor of illuminating salsa dancers moving to the club's finest night beats. Hoping Lindsey can continue to build upon this routine, and to make her body feel more comfortable with each of the respective dance styles.

 

Vanessa & Maks - enjoyed the smoky foxtrot opening on stage and thought Vanessa breathed to life the sultry 40's nightclub genteel dancer with ease and sophistication. The natural curvature of her body pose, convincing arms and instinctive affinity for the camera – thought she set the scene well for the next anticipating moments off stage. Maybe she could brush the floor with the balls of her feet moving backwards; keep her topline, head/neck slightly aligned in the pivots a bit. Though brief, fleeting thoughts of a past dancer in another lifetime flashed in the back of one's mind, enjoyed the cheery glance she shared with the judges midway and thought she was having an enjoyable, fun-filled time on the floor.

 

 

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Best of luck to all the celebs and looking forward to their dances.

[LadyMustang65]

42 minutes ago, spanana said:

I'm not going to defend Val for his stupid comment to Len, but Val had to know that wasn't a rumba.  My guess is that Victoria wasn't really able to do the proper rumba moves, so Val did what he had to do in such a short time frame and moved it in a contemp lite direction.  He also probably didn't want to throw Victoria under the bus in front of Len and America and point out her inabilities (even if not her fault and related to her situation).  So instead of just remaining quiet and taking the critique, he opened his mouth and spewed some other nonsense.

 

Am I the only one who remembers Derek's non-jive with Maria M.?  They spent a fair amount of time with her lying or sitting on a table and not a single kick or flick in the entire dance.  Very little jive content at all.  And it was Len who said that it wasn't a traditional jive and noted there were no kicks or flicks and then said he didn't care because he liked it.  And Derek claimed that it was a "new" style of jive - which apparently never caught on since it's never been done again.  And Len gave her a 9 for it.  It's probably the only time Len has given a pass like that.  I'm wondering if that's where Val got the idea about "rumba changing."  But I do agree with your assessment of the situation.  I think that's probably exactly what happened.  Just wish Val had let it pass, though.  These judges are nothing if not inconsistent.  :)

[vdw84]

Im sure we all can argue that frankie may not have deserved that 9 over others but what I  can say Im actually fine with it because this is a dude that most probably wouldnt imagine being this good and he is actually a good dancer. No he doesnt have the experience as Jordan or Lindsay but he is bringing that it factor that James had with sharna their season. Noone knew James would be as good as he was but he was good and Frankie is proving that. I  don't think that 9 was a manipulative 9 but it was a hardwork 9 because he doesnt have the experience as others.

[Toonces464]

2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Vanessa's good at dancing than the others, but I don't know if she has a big enough fanbase to get her that fourth place. Maks' fanbase may get her far,

I don't think Maks has much of a fan base of his own left. I think the majority of his "fans" these days are Val and Peta's fans and they're busy voting for them. So  unless those two are eliminated and their fans all turn their attention to Maks, I don't think the fans will take him as far as they have in the past (looking at you, Kirstie).

[spanana]

22 hours ago, vdw84 said:

Im sure we all can argue that frankie may not have deserved that 9 over others but what I  can say Im actually fine with it because this is a dude that most probably wouldnt imagine being this good and he is actually a good dancer. No he doesnt have the experience as Jordan or Lindsay but he is bringing that it factor that James had with sharna their season. Noone knew James would be as good as he was but he was good and Frankie is proving that. I  don't think that 9 was a manipulative 9 but it was a hardwork 9 because he doesnt have the experience as others.

I also think there is the point to be made as well from a casting perspective that if the those that come in with experience are always at the top of the leaderboard and always win because they are clearly the most technical and proficient dancers, you would never get a non-ringer celeb to sign up for the show again.  Non-ringer and non-experienced celebs would never bother to sign on knowing that they will always be bested by people that come in with potentially years of experience and knowing that they have no real shot.  It's not a level playing field and never has been and some accommodations do need to be made for that in the scoring.  You can't expect someone with no experience to come in and catch up with someone with years of training in a span of 3 months.  So there are all sorts of sides to the fairness question.  But the main point being that the show needs to keep their celeb pool as wide as possible, which isn't going to happen if ringers are always at the top/winning.

Edited September 28, 2017 by spanana

[boyznkatz]

Maks is his biggest fan. Weird how he was the only one who didn't hug his partner after the group safe announcement. IMO it seems like he doesn't like her that much. I agree with Toonces that he probably doesn't have much of a fan base anymore.

1 hour ago, LadyMustang65 said:

Am I the only one who remembers Derek's non-jive with Maria M.?  They spent a fair amount of time with her lying or sitting on a table and not a single kick or flick in the entire dance.  Very little jive content at all.  And it was Len who said that it wasn't a traditional jive and noted there were no kicks or flicks and then said he didn't care because he liked it.  And Derek claimed that it was a "new" style of jive - which apparently never caught on since it's never been done again.  And Len gave her a 9 for it.  It's probably the only time Len has given a pass like that.  I'm wondering if that's where Val got the idea about "rumba changing."  But I do agree with your assessment of the situation.  I think that's probably exactly what happened.  Just wish Val had let it pass, though.  These judges are nothing if not inconsistent.  :)

Len was clearly in love with Maria. She was Derek's worst partner ever but Len convinced himself she was great.

[Woodrose]

Really hope that's not the last time we see Alan as a pro. I've liked him since So You Think You Can Dance. Disappointed that he left so soon.

Edited September 27, 2017 by Woodrose

[vdw84]

I love how Len told maks in a subtle way that he has a contender and he needs to treat her as such because maks gets lazy if he doesnt have an automatic ringer for the win. Vanessa is no ringer but she is a contender for the finals if Maks want let her down and get in his own way. I agree with some that saying he may not like her too much and I believe its cause she doesnt take his crap.

3 minutes ago, Woodrose said:

Really hope that's not the last time we see Alan as a pro. I've like him since So You Think You Can Dance. Disappointed that he left so soon.

Alan did well for his first time. They just didnt have the fanbase because its not like they were the worse couple. Alan actually did well with Debbie and I really want him to return and kill it because he is a great teacher and choreographer.

[iMonrey]

I think it's interesting that Nick and Vanessa didn't do their numbers back to back this time and did not appear together for the scoring. Nick was OK in his first dance but the last couple have been pretty stompy and I don't really see him going far. I think it's possible the show is trying to distance Vanessa from him since she has so much more potential and pushing them as a pair is just going to drag her down.

I really thought the judges were overly generous with both Victoria and Frankie. I know Victoria has a heartwarming story but I think they're scoring her more on that than on her dance. Len was right, it was not a recognizable Rumba - and times may have changed Val but the dance doesn't. Jeez. Also - she had a totally blank expression on her face through that whole thing. Frankie and Witney's dance was too much spectacle and messing around and not enough actual dance IMO. I like him just fine but I thought that number was kind of a sloppy mess.

I didn't think any of the myriad Sambas had the recognizable Samba bounce. Terrell came the closest but none really had the technique down IMO. Biggest surprise of the night was Mark's (Mark's!) straight-up old school Salsa with no gimmicks, troupe members, messing about or even goofy costumes. Who is this guy and what has he done with the real Mark Ballas? Also, Drew actually had the best Rumba of the night IMO - not great technique but an actual Rumba with more or less fluid movement from start to finish. More and more these days they do some contemporary crap and call it a Rumba like Val did.

I think Debbie just kind of got lost in the crowd. Too bad because that Argentine Tango was really clever and I liked the tabletop part of it.

[Fliz]

Maybe Maks is just tired of Vanessa - I know I am.

[NeverLate]

7 hours ago, blaase said:

This season is so boring these dlisters are dull. I guess Frankie Munoz for the win?

He's the dark horse, for sure. The winner, I'm not betting on that( yet) 

[calipiano81]

From time to time over the DWTS years, I've wondered...why can't each judge give a technical score AND an artistic/performance score?

They tried this format one time during Season 11 and it seemed like it worked OK. This way, you can reward both the non-experienced celebs for their personality and enthusiasm, and the "ringers" for doing higher difficulty routines. The best dance will obviously be the one that strikes the best combination of both areas.

Edited September 27, 2017 by calipiano81

[Callaphera]

4 hours ago, Boofish said:

Every time I see mention of Debbie and Alan, I read it as Debbie Allen. Just me? 

That one doesn't throw me. But because Big Brother just ended its season, anytime I hear Frankie's name, I think of Frankie Grande (Ariana Grande's annoying pink haired troll of a brother) and have a moment of "Oh, God. Please no!" before this Frankie pops up on screen and I can relax. And Derek's name always makes me think of pro dancer Derek so I have that "Wait, I thought he wasn't on this season... oh." moment. It's also increasingly hard to remember to call Nikki Bella by that name rather than Nicole, which is what she goes by in her non-professional life - at least on the two E! reality shows that she's on. 

[howmanywords]

15 hours ago, Kira53 said:

Terrell has Cheryl and I think she has a lot of fans.  Allan is a new pro and couldn't add that much to Debbie's fan base.   It's a tough season because almost all the pros have their set of fans and most of the contestant stars are decent dancers. I've no idea who would go next. 

I don't think Cheryl's fanbase is really all that big anymore. Bigger than Allan, probably but the last couple of times she was on she went home relatively early and people were surprised because of this assumption she has this large fan base.

[Palomar]

13 hours ago, PBGamer89 said:

Jordan is good, i'm not blind, but it irks me to no end each time he dances that very few people call him a ringer and that it's unfair ; especially in this cast where he really is the only ringer, and it's just "he's so good, etc, etc". Yet I remember a large majority after every Normani dance or Heather dance "god they need to stop salivating over her; of course she's good, she has a dance background, enough!; I hope she goes home soon cause it's not fair she's in the cast". If there's some backlash at some point, I'll gladly welcome it and love the change in pace of a male ringer getting backlash, because it really is only fair especially after last season's slaughter of the female celebs. As a fan of each one last season it was a tough season to manage through watching your favorite get continually eliminated.

Jordan is definitely a ringer!  However, I enjoy seeing him dance so I don't mind if he sticks around for awhile.  It doesn't hurt that he is a really likeable guy without any attitude and he fits in well with everyone.  That said, I don't vote, but if I did,  I wouldn't vote for him because it is an uneven playing ground and there are other non-ringers who are doing well. 

I loved Normani and enjoyed watching her dance but had no problem that she didn't win.  I'm glad she stuck around to make it to the finals because it was enjoyable to see her dance. Have to admit the combination of Heather dancing professionally and there being something about her that I just didn't like, I didn't miss her at all when she left. I think ringers will always have a risk that people won't vote for them. I was shocked that the Pussy Cat Doll Nicole won when she did. 

[spanana]

2 hours ago, Fliz said:

Maybe Maks is just tired of Vanessa - I know I am.

I 100% understand why Vanessa wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea, but Maks is the last person that should be complaining about someone's personality being exhausting.  Maks has settled down a little in the last few years, but I find it very entertaining how much space Vanessa dominates in the room and seeing Maks left with the scraps.  Mostly because Maks is so used to it being the other way around.

This season in general is really messing with me on the names.  We have two Sashas and we have a Lindsay and Lindsey.  Not to mention I co-sign on the above that I hear someone say Derek and start looking around for a Hough.  Also I get confused because people accidentally refer to Nick as Drew a lot, for obvious reasons, but then we also have a Drew so I don't know if they are talking about Nick or the actual Drew on this season.

Apparently Val went on to defend his comments on social media. Something about how he agreed with Len it wasn't a rumba but he doesn't care as long as his partner loves it and he choreographs what fits to the music and it's all open to interpretation or something or other.  I don't know if he was getting blowback? All I saw was his sycophant fans agreeing with him and telling him how wonderful he and his choreography were...which I think he did well with Victoria for the tango.  Last night was eh.

I've never been a huge Alan fan.  I used to always see him as the male equivalent as Jenna (in your face, immature, somewhat selfish as a performer) but he's proven me wrong. I thought he was excellent with Debbie and their early elimination had no baring on his work.  I don't think there was anything he could have done differently.  He was very attentive to her, his choreography was good, he taught her well, so I really hope he gets another shot next season.

Edited September 27, 2017 by spanana

[boyznkatz]

I find Vanessa super annoying, but it's Maks's job as a pro to get her as far as he can. Poor Keo never gave an attitude for putting up with Barbara.

Val, Maks and Mark just need to go away. I would like to see what Alan or Keo could do with a good partner.

Edited September 27, 2017 by boyznkatz

[smiley13]

I had to laugh when Vanessa was talking about her time as a young 20 something in NYC and she commented that Maks was there at the same time.  Except Vanessa was on MTV and I guess Maks was still struggling.   He seemed a little miffed when he said they were not in the same places, lol.

I do think a lot of the enthusiasm for Jordan comes from his pairing with Lindsay.  If Mark doesn't win, I would love to see Lindsay get the MBT.  As she said, she has been 4th, 3rd and 2nd.  She, Emma and Witney are the top female stars at this point IMO.  Peta doesn't seem very invested and Cheryl comes and goes.  Then there's ole Sharner who is annoying all around.

[crowceilidh]

Quote

I've never been a huge Alan fan.  I used to always see him as the male equivalent as Jenna (in your face, immature, somewhat selfish as a performer) but he's proven me wrong. I thought he was excellent with Debbie and their early elimination had no baring on his work.  I don't think there was anything he could have done differently.  He was very attentive to her, his choreography was good, he taught her well, so I really hope he gets another shot next season.

I thought his choreo was better than good, actually.  Lots of Len-pleasing stuff and no faffing about.

I find that I react the same way to his face and Jenna's - they are so hungry for approbation that it's difficult to see what they look like through the desperation, but I'm with you - he deserves a few more chances.  I like his dancing better than Keo's because of Keo's strange toe and foot stuff.   I would love to hear what Keo really thinks about what has happened to him on this show.

[Quickbeam]

It can’t be said enough....Erin’s dress was godawful. She was so pretty in the Monday night dress. Why hide those great arms and shoulders under that puffy fabric? That was my sole impression of the night. 

[smiley13]

Add me to the list of those impressed with Alan's work.  Maybe Maks will retire again and Alan will get another shot.

[madpsych78]

11 hours ago, spanana said:

Alfonso did get backlash. Maybe people didn't see it, but I saw it. Often the backlash is coming from fans of their biggest competition/other pros.  So the Janel fans and some of the C bros fans were not kind to him and balking about his experience constantly.

Also there are many, many both males and females on this show that I have not been able to get into over the years whether they were ringers or not.  Me saying that I don't love Lindsey as yet but enjoying Jordan or Frankie does not mean that I hate women or female ringers. Granted I don't vote much period but I loved Paige and wanted her to win. I loved Zendaya and certainly defended her against a lot of the crap being spewed about her.  But by the same token I did support Drew Lachey in his original run.  Who I support season to season is very much specific to who the celebs are that season and what general impressions they make on me, dance or otherwise.  Sometimes they are ringers and sometimes they aren't.  Sometimes they are women and sometimes they aren't.

Nancy was one of my faves last season and I don't remember her getting a ton of backlash due to experience.  At all.  I wish she lasted longer but I don't think her being kicked off had anything do with her being considered a ringer.

I'll also be frankly honest. Me preferring Rashad over Normani for the win last season had very little to do with them and almost everything to do with me not being able to stand Val and wanting to reward Emma...so it's also hard to play these games when there is a partnership happening and in many ways my support of Rashad was about Emma...a woman I wanted to see win.  Whereas I strongly dislike Val of late and unfortunately that generally means I don't vote for his partners.  So feelings about partners do matter and play a role here.  As said, Jordan lucked out to have a partner who has been growing in popularity season to season and who fans seem ready to reward.

Even people not talking about TO more, maybe is just because TO may be an ass, but he's not even a memorable ass and there are more interesting things to talk about.

Show related, didn't realize Lindsey S. was Mormon.

Can we all reasonably agree that not all ringers (men or women, doesn't matter) are the same type of ringer? It bugs me when gymnasts and ice skaters are lumped in with ice dancers as well as Broadway and back-up dancers. They do not have the same dance skills.

Contestants like Jordan, Heather from last season, Meryl and Charlie, Zendaya, Corbin, even Amber (Derek's partner from Glee) are true ringers IMO because they actually dance as part of their profession. Their dancing is not ballroom of course, but they actually dance nonetheless.

Contestants like Kristi, Nancy, Evan, Shawn, Laurie, Simone, and Nastia are not true ringers. They have a lot of skills that they can bring to learn dancing so they have some advantages; for example, they are athletic and they can learn the parts of a routine. But their professions do not involve dancing (even non-ballroom dancing). Ice skaters come at a disadvantage with the footwork and gymnasts come at a disadvantage with showing emotion and getting into the character of the dance - perhaps even more than many of their "non-ringer" counterparts.

[McManda]

2 hours ago, boyznkatz said:

I would like to see what Alan or Keo could do with a good partner.

His best partner was Jodie Sweetin and he was mediocre, imo. 

I think his dancing is fine to watch, but he's not proven himself to be a very good DWTS teacher.

[Emily-D]

9 hours ago, Cupcake04 said:

Me, for one.

Any particular reason why? No shade intended, I’m just genuinely interested in what makes people want to vote for him. Did he play for a football team you support?