S25.E03: Week 2: Latin Night

[Pandorap]

I didn't get to watch this episode but I'm sorry to hear Debbie is gone. I would have liked to see her improve throughout the season. I think she would have been really good and would have added to the show. I get tired of seeing dancers hang in there while never improving. 

[jennifer6973]

After last season I said I wasn't going to get attached to any dancer and last night proved why.

[magpye29]

21 hours ago, KLovestoShop said:

Did anyone notice Nick's hand on Peta's ass?   And could her bottom be any briefer?

I did notice that, but I think he was trying to avoid touching her bare skin since that costume was so skimpy.

[boyznkatz]

1 hour ago, Emily-D said:

Any particular reason why? No shade intended, I’m just genuinely interested in what makes people want to vote for him. Did he play for a football team you support?

I don't vote but I do think he is entertaining. I would rather watch him than Drew or Nick. Yes he's annoying, but I like to watch the dancing and don't really care about their personalities. Vanessa is another one who is annoying but I like to watch her dance.

[Lady Calypso]

21 hours ago, vdw84 said:

Im sure we all can argue that frankie may not have deserved that 9 over others but what I  can say Im actually fine with it because this is a dude that most probably wouldnt imagine being this good and he is actually a good dancer. No he doesnt have the experience as Jordan or Lindsay but he is bringing that it factor that James had with sharna their season. Noone knew James would be as good as he was but he was good and Frankie is proving that. I  don't think that 9 was a manipulative 9 but it was a hardwork 9 because he doesnt have the experience as others.

I agree with this. Frankie's dance may have not been as technical as some of the others, but I think it was very engaging and very fun to watch, which I think is a part of this show. What I've noticed with Frankie's three dances is that he really brings it. Whatever Witney has given him in terms of choreography, he owns it. He talks about being nervous and anxious and that certainly shows...when he's not dancing. The fact that he can push his nerves aside and just bring everything to the table is astonishingly charming. He's engaged, he's interested, he's visibly excited about what he's doing and I think that's a trait that is being translated well onscreen. I have gotten excited over each of his dances. His first two dances were 100% technical. It was all about the dancing and the movement. This one had Witney bring more of the spectacle, which Frankie performed rather successfully. 

I think that's what makes Frankie my favourite and why I enjoy his dances more than anyone else's. Not that people like Jordan and Lindsey don't have excellent dances in itself, but there's something about Frankie's that makes me like his the best. Maybe it is because he's the epitome of what I thought the show could be, with bringing the non-dancers to prove their skill. Maybe it's the fact that he looks like he's having a blast and will push anyone out of the competition to get farther. Maybe because he looks like he's trying really hard and he will probably get better the longer he sticks around. Maybe it's because I don't expect it from Frankie, or maybe because I've been a huge fan of him since I was a kid. Or it's just all of the above. I expect the ringers to be good. I knew Jordan and Lindsey would be good and their performances are good to watch, but Frankie just has something going on that's different than those two. 

Whatever it is, it's working. I think I've rewatched this dance of his quite a few times now with a smile on my face. Even his first dance, I could hear the moment the audience got encaptured by Frankie. I'm sure he could have a bad dance down the line, but he's got me hook, line, and sinker right now. 

Edited September 28, 2017 by Lady Calypso
got, not good me

[tessaforever]

14 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I will say that the reason I think that Lindsey didn't need a 9, as much as I liked the dance, because some of her transitions threw me off. A lot of her arm action was awkward for me, and I can't quite explain why. Her dance just wasn't as smooth as I wanted it to be. It was great technically, though, so I'm happy for her well deserved scores.

I was blown away when I saw it last night (so nice to see straightforward dancing from Mark, with no gimmicks), but when I re-watched it today - I agree. Something was off. Legs were bent funny sometimes, arms not always right. But overall she is amazing, and I'm excited to see her improve. 

[calipiano81]

12 hours ago, spanana said:

I also think there is the point to be made as well from a casting perspective that if the those that come in with experience are always at the top of the leaderboard and always win because they are clearly the most technical and proficient dancers, you would never got a non-ringer celeb to sign up for the show again.  Non-ringer and non-experienced celebs would never bother to sign on knowing that they will always be bested by people that come in with potentially years of experience and knowing that they have no real shot.  It's not a level playing field and never has been and some accommodations do need to be made for that in the scoring.  You can't expect someone with no experience to come in and catch up with someone with years of training in a span of 3 months.  So there are all sorts of sides to the fairness question.  But the main point being that the show needs to keep their celeb pool as wide as possible, which isn't going to happen if ringers are always at the top/winning.

On the other hand, if the non-ringer winner trend starts becoming too consistent, then the experienced celebs are going to start declining to participate, because what's the point? No matter how well you dance, the audience will use it against you or find reasons not to like you.

Edited September 28, 2017 by calipiano81

[spanana]

9 hours ago, calipiano81 said:

On the other hand, if the non-ringer winner trend starts becoming too consistent, then the experienced celebs are going to start declining to participate, because what's the point? No matter how well you dance, the audience will use it against you or find reasons not to like you.

While that is true, I think the point of all of that is you need a mix.  It's not to say ringers or those with experience will never wind up on top.  It's just that they can't be on top all of the time.  The same way non-experienced folks can't be on top all of the time...and for the most part I'd actually argue that the show has succeeded in this regard.  Ringers don't win too often but they generally make it to the end and are often lauded throughout the season.  I think there has been enough variety with the winners that it hasn't been too much of an issue for the show.  Sometimes there just seems to be this selective outrage about how the best dancer should always win or should always be scored at the top and that just isn't going to work.  Both from a standpoint of it not being interesting and also how it could potentially effect casting.

Also as I mentioned, there is the opposite perspective that it is awful unfair to expect someone like Drew, coming in with zero experience, to get on the level of someone like Jordan, with massive experience over the course of 3 months. Of course Drew isn't going to be able to do what Jordan can do, but Jordan is coming with a huge head start.  Where I think the outrage is fair IMO is when you have so-called ringers whose experience is massively exaggerated by fans.  Like pointing to a female celeb who took a handful of baby ballet classes as a child or pointing to someone doing a step touch on stage as part if a musical act and acting as if they are professional dancers.

Quote

Whatever it is, it's working. I think I've rewatched this dance of his quite a few times now with a smile on my face. Even his first dance, I could hear the moment the audience got encaptured by Frankie. I'm sure he could have a bad dance down the line, but he's got me hook, line, and sinker right now. 

I have yet to vote for anyone, but two things struck me about Frankie this week.  First, I was shocked at how he owned that segment on the stage with Sasha and Brandon.  He stood out from the troupe guys and commanded attention on his own.  I'm sure the troupe guys are used to dancing down a bit or dancing to blend in when backing up celebs, but that surprised me and set the tone for the rest of the dance.  In re-watching the rest, I saw things to be improved upon but I think he drew people in right at the beginning that it made people more forgiving to look over any flaws in the rest.

There was also that little adorable moment in the practice footage where he just stopped dancing, turned to Wit, and in a fairly soft/shy voice said something to her about how much he was enjoying all of this and how much fun he was having.  I'm as cynical as the rest in terms of what is/isn't staged but it felt like a genuine moment.  And Wit for her part was sort of surprised, and I think even a little touched by that. That is the kind of thing that the home audience will eat up.

Edited September 28, 2017 by spanana

[katha]

Val shouldn't have reacted to Len's comments like that and he shouldn't have been annoying on SM about it (not that I have much hope of that ever changing). The pros in general should just let various random stuff that Len says go, it never helps to argue.  Though I will say it was pretty obvious what was going on and it should have been pretty obvious to Len as well: It didn't seem like Victoria was able to do all the required movements physically and she seemed uncomfortable with the rumba in general (which you saw in her blank face throughout). Val probably didn't want to risk injury and he didn't want to overstep her boundaries on performance. Which is why he went the reduced contempo route. It wasn't great, she got the appropriate scores for it. Whatever. It's nice that he didn't want to throw her under the bus, but then just say you liked the dance and it's fine if Len disagrees. Oh well. The pros do this again and again and fall for Len's traps.

[Callaphera]

2 hours ago, spanana said:

There was also that little adorable moment in the practice footage where he just stopped dancing, turned to Wit, and in a fairly soft/shy voice said something to her about how much he was enjoying all of this and how much fun he was having.  I'm as cynical as the rest in terms of what is/isn't staged but it felt like a genuine moment.  And Wit for her part was sort of surprised, and I think even a little touched by that. That is the kind of thing that the home audience will eat up.

It was either a very calculated move on his part (I'm cynical) or a very genuine moment but either way, it worked for me. Even if he does look like a tiny Lars Ulrich. 

[Lady Calypso]

10 minutes ago, Callaphera said:

It was either a very calculated move on his part (I'm cynical) or a very genuine moment but either way, it worked for me. Even if he does look like a tiny Lars Ulrich. 

I'm cynical too, but I think it was a genuine moment. He was looking down at the ground when he was saying it, and he sounded like he really meant it. It's not like it was the first instance of him saying anything like that in that voice; his first practice package last week ended on him commenting how his cheeks were warm (as well as trying to explain to the cameras why he gets embarrassed when Witney compliments him). Also, when Carrie Ann was commenting after their dance about how he had swagger, Frankie immediately put his hand to his face out of embarrassment. I recognise that body language; I embalm that exact body language when getting complimented. 

Also, I simply do not care even if it was calculated; it's something I'm not used to seeing on TV. Apparently, this year is the year of getting to watch new types of personalities emerge on TV; first Cody from Big Brother, and now Frankie. 

2 hours ago, spanana said:

I have yet to vote for anyone, but two things struck me about Frankie this week.  First, I was shocked at how he owned that segment on the stage with Sasha and Brandon.  He stood out from the troupe guys and commanded attention on his own.  I'm sure the troupe guys are used to dancing down a bit or dancing to blend in when backing up celebs, but that surprised me and set the tone for the rest of the dance.  In re-watching the rest, I saw things to be improved upon but I think he drew people in right at the beginning that it made people more forgiving to look over any flaws in the rest.

Oh yeah, I agree. His confidence when dancing and the ability to hold his own on the dance floor is astonishing. He really goes all in, and it shows. It's fun to watch him fall in love with something that he seems to have never really done before; I think that what makes it enjoyable to watch Frankie. He's into this more than we are. He definitely has improvements to work on, but I also think he compensates for those flaws with his other strengths, which is basically getting the audience to pay attention to him. 

I cast my votes on Facebook, and over half of them went to Frankie (I also tossed the rest of my votes at Victoria and Sasha this week). Next week, I think I'll just toss all my votes to Frankie. Clearly, since I talk about him more than anyone else in my posts, it'll be hard to get me to root for someone else over him. 

[iMonrey]

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I didn't get to watch this episode but I'm sorry to hear Debbie is gone. I would have liked to see her improve throughout the season. I think she would have been really good and would have added to the show. I get tired of seeing dancers hang in there while never improving. 

Debbie sort of got lost in the shuffle. Every season there's that woman "of a certain age" who is decent but you know they're aren't making the finals unless they're paired with Derek Hough. I think she was pretty good and I really liked the Argentine Tango Alan choreographed for her, but people are paying more attention to other celebs and just kind of forgot about her I think. She wasn't eliminated because she wasn't good enough or disliked - people just didn't remember her to vote for her.

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I agree with this. Frankie's dance may have not been as technical as some of the others, but I think it was very engaging and very fun to watch, which I think is a part of this show. 

True, but you can't have it both ways. Len shouldn't rag on Val for not doing a proper Rumba and then give nothing but praise to Frankie because "it was fun."

But then, consistency is not something these judges seem to understand.

[spanana]

54 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

True, but you can't have it both ways. Len shouldn't rag on Val for not doing a proper Rumba and then give nothing but praise to Frankie because "it was fun."

But then, consistency is not something these judges seem to understand.

Saying a dance was fun doesn't imply that it didn't have any content.  The issue with Val's dance was there was seemingly next to no recognizable rumba content and Len mentioned some yardstick he goes by as to whether he can identify a dance style from a celeb dance without hearing the music.  I don't think Frankie's cha cha had no content.  It didn't have as much content as some other cha chas we have seen but I think it was a recognizable cha cha.  Even I would have known that was a cha cha on sight.

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Though I will say it was pretty obvious what was going on and it should have been pretty obvious to Len as well: It didn't seem like Victoria was able to do all the required movements physically and she seemed uncomfortable with the rumba in general (which you saw in her blank face throughout). Val probably didn't want to risk injury and he didn't want to overstep her boundaries on performance.

I think you are right about Victoria not being able to do the required physical movements and then it becomes how do you judge her fairly because you can't just entirely give her a pass, and I actually thought the judges were fair with their critiques/scores.  But I don't think Victoria deserves a pass for not seeming comfortable with the type of dance.  That story is as old as time on this show and we've seen some perfectly demure rumbas over time with some of the younger contestants (I think Sadie?) so it can be done in such a way for someone not comfortable with that sort of emotion. 

[Emily-D]

This is the best compliment I can pay Frankie. I’m voting for him even though he’s with Witney. I really dislike Witney she’s by far my least favourite female pro and I’ve never voted for any of her partners before even Alfonso. It’s a testament to Frankie’s likeablity that I’m willingly to give him votes despite disliking his pro. I kind of wish they could switch Lindsay and Witney’s partners around but I guess I’ll have to settle for this. 

[ali59]

I've never been fond of Gleb before but with Sasha, I really like him.  So maybe it's been his partners all along that I didn't like.

[iMonrey]

Quote

The issue with Val's dance was there was seemingly next to no recognizable rumba content and Len mentioned some yardstick he goes by as to whether he can identify a dance style from a celeb dance without hearing the music.  I don't think Frankie's cha cha had no content.  It didn't have as much content as some other cha chas we have seen but I think it was a recognizable cha cha.  Even I would have known that was a cha cha on sight.

Yeah, I get that, but let's not pretend Len (or any of the other judges) are consistent with their complaints and critiques. There was an awful lot of "messing about" in Frankie's dance. Len gripes about that more than anything else, but in this one he was OK with it? Whatevs. 

For the record, I'm rooting for Frankie, he's like one of two celebrities I even know this season. I'm just fed up with the inconsistent judging. 

[Lady Calypso]

12 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Yeah, I get that, but let's not pretend Len (or any of the other judges) are consistent with their complaints and critiques. There was an awful lot of "messing about" in Frankie's dance. Len gripes about that more than anything else, but in this one he was OK with it? Whatevs. 

For the record, I'm rooting for Frankie, he's like one of two celebrities I even know this season. I'm just fed up with the inconsistent judging. 

I totally get this. None of them are consistent, not even CAI with her "But...but I gotta dock a point for the LIFT!" obsession. I figure the judges pre-determine the scores before the live show so some of what they say is planned out to an extent. I remember last season, they basically praised Bonner for standing like a statue and doing basically nothing with his arms and legs, but critiqued Nick Viall and had almost nothing positive to say about him, despite him getting better at dancing each week. They also praised David Ross to an unhealthy amount last season. So yeah, the judging is definitely inconsistent. 

Although, rewatching both Victoria and Frankie, though Frankie deserved some more criticism, he did end up dancing for the majority of the dance. The first 20 seconds of the dance was more of the spectacle, but I think Witney did a good job trying to balance spectacle and content (whether she succeeded is obviously up to the viewer; I personally think a little more content was needed but it was still a cha cha). 

What I noted about Victoria's is that she either stood still or she was walking to her next position. There wasn't as much content, besides the end for about 10 seconds. And I feel like it was probably because she couldn't do a lot of the rumba steps, so Val had to improvise and alter it. Though....last season, he is the one that choreographed a 20 second hip hop number for Normani in a salsa routine. 

[Kira53]

On 9/27/2017 at 4:44 PM, spanana said:

I 100% understand why Vanessa wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea, but Maks is the last person that should be complaining about someone's personality being exhausting.  Maks has settled down a little in the last few years, but I find it very entertaining how much space Vanessa dominates in the room and seeing Maks left with the scraps.  Mostly because Maks is so used to it being the other way around.

This season in general is really messing with me on the names.  We have two Sashas and we have a Lindsay and Lindsey.  Not to mention I co-sign on the above that I hear someone say Derek and start looking around for a Hough.  Also I get confused because people accidentally refer to Nick as Drew a lot, for obvious reasons, but then we also have a Drew so I don't know if they are talking about Nick or the actual Drew on this season.

Apparently Val went on to defend his comments on social media. Something about how he agreed with Len it wasn't a rumba but he doesn't care as long as his partner loves it and he choreographs what fits to the music and it's all open to interpretation or something or other.  I don't know if he was getting blowback? All I saw was his sycophant fans agreeing with him and telling him how wonderful he and his choreography were...which I think he did well with Victoria for the tango.  Last night was eh.

I've never been a huge Alan fan.  I used to always see him as the male equivalent as Jenna (in your face, immature, somewhat selfish as a performer) but he's proven me wrong. I thought he was excellent with Debbie and their early elimination had no baring on his work.  I don't think there was anything he could have done differently.  He was very attentive to her, his choreography was good, he taught her well, so I really hope he gets another shot next season.

You left out two Fishers.  The name situation is so crazy this year.  They couldn't get more repeats if that was the goal of the show.

[spanana]

I never said the judges were consistent.  They aren't by a long shot.  But I just don't see the comparison personally between Frankie and Victoria's dance this week. Frankie's was still a recognizable cha cha and Victoria's wasn't a recognizable rumba.  There are probably reasons for that, but I think Frankie's had more than enough to pass.  We all know Len doesn't like messing about but that wasn't the criticism he held up to Victoria's dance, nor do I think he complained about anybody messing about this week, so I feel like it's fairly moot.  I don't think they were too inconsistent on this particular show (week to week and season to season, of course).

Also I don't entirely classify that Frankie did as messing about.  Messing about, in Len's terms, to me means when a couple spends half the number on a bench or playing with props or acting out a scene that requires little to no dancing.  Frankie didn't do that. He was dancing and moving around the whole time.  I think that is something entirely different than a dance potentially not having enough content.  

[luvthepros]

On 9/26/2017 at 11:08 PM, Emily-D said:

......... right now I think the top four is looking nailed. Frankie, Victoria, Jordan and Lindsey in any order.

This is my Top 4 but my top 4 would include Vanessa and not Victoria. I love Victoria's story but her dancing leaves a lot to be desired. She had absolutely no hip action in her Rumba and that really disappoints me because I know Val is a better teacher than that.

On 9/26/2017 at 11:10 PM, sab85 said:

 

.......... I will say though that there are a ton of people I still forget about (Sasha, Derek, Nikki, Lindsey). 

 

How can you forget Linsdey? First of all she has Mark as a partner and that makes her stand out right off the bat. In the Samba, the girl kicked her leg backward and nearly touched her head with her shoe! That is a move you see the pro dance contestants do on So You Think You Can Dance. How can you forget someone who can do that???

Edited September 29, 2017 by luvthepros

[luvthepros]

On 9/26/2017 at 11:10 PM, sab85 said:

Jordan had samba rolls people. This season just got real. 

 

Yes and Jordan looked damn good doing them. We will see him in the finale.

[luvthepros]

On 9/26/2017 at 11:14 PM, crowceilidh said:

...........Vanessa looks so much like Brooke Burke.  Every time I see her I think Brooke is playing a joke by visiting set dressed up for dancing. 

Dunno who designed Vanessa's costume but they HATE her.
Agree about Vanessa's costume. It was one of the worst I have ever seen on a female who has a really great body. Sooo.....I'm not the only one who thinks Vanessa is a dead ringer for Brooke Burke. We are not alone........

Vanessa and Brooke look-a-likes

 

[calipiano81]

51 minutes ago, luvthepros said:

How can you forget Linsdey? First of all she has Mark as a partner and that makes her stand out right off the bat. In the Samba, the girl kicked her leg backward and nearly touched her head with her shoe! That is a move you see the pro dance contestants do on So You Think You Can Dance. How can you forget someone who can do that???

 

Lindsey also has arguably had the most difficult routines each week so far and she has executed them all very well and with lots of joy. She's not everyone's cup of tea, but if she's "forgettable," I really don't think that's on her or Mark.

Edited September 29, 2017 by calipiano81

[Sd601]

I think Lindsey S. is charming in her packages, an adorable dorkiness. But something isn't quite as enjoyable watching her. Sadie was kinda dorky but had some graceful movements in her dance. I don't mind gangly limbs, but Lindsey's arms are just crazy long--side by side in her hip hop  portion of their cha-cha last week, you can see the difference in mark and her arms. I can't quite put my finger on it, but I'm not loving watching her dance. A fantastic Mark routine may help that.

I actually voted for Frankie the first week, but I thought he was overhyped this week. He's sweet and humble, gracious in his packages. Witney can do some great choreography to highlight her partners. While she is irritatingly dumb as dirt, she is a beautiful girl and enjoyable to watch, imho. I like how she's sexy but not over-showing of her body. I dislike Lindsay Arnold's costumes. Almost all of them. Same with sharna, but I don't know why Lindsey's bother me more. It's not about the pro!

Speaking of Lindsay, I really like her partner. I had never heard of Jordan Fisher, but I really like him. Great dancer, cute, articulate, confident and enthusiastic. The ringer idea doesn't bother me. Shrug. I'm an average watcher--I only know dance from watching shows, and while I try to judge on the dance, I get caught up in the personality/story of a contestant. I've enjoyed some of TO's dances, but he can go anytime because I think he's an ass. Not a fan of the marrieds. Sasha P was more fun to watch this week.

The dances I rewatched a few times again were Jordan and Frankie. The music, costumes, enthusiasm, and great choreography were so much fun to watch. Right now, I'm enjoying this season. I see Frankie, Jordan, Lindsey in the finale....the 4th? Hmm. Sasha or Vanessa? Who's gonna be the shock (gasp) elimination in a couple weeks? 

[suebee12]

10 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Even if he does look like a tiny Lars Ulrich. 

Hee, I had to look him up(I did have the right person in mind!) but then I had to laugh...Frankie is only 1 inch shorter than Lars!!

[gohawks]

Lindsey is boring. All the steps but no real feeling or emotion in her dance.  She is always smiling but that is not equivalent to expressing joy.

 

Frankie is entertaining. I really enjoyed his cha-cha. He has great rhythm and feels the music.  As long as he can keep his scott baio-ish politics to himself, i will enjoy him. 

 

I love Vanessa. She is a high energy  dork who dances well. She talks about being a mom because being a mom is what she does. I am not holding that against her. I guess I didn't get the memo letting me know that being a proud parent is obnoxious.

Derek is a cutie with a lot of natural ability. I would like to see him stick around. Sharna seems to actually enjoy the partnership. 

Jordan seems a little  too Disney-kid. Also, his dancing is great but he reminded me of a SYTYCD contemporary dancer during that Samba. Like he just could not unlearn what he already knew about foot placement.

Sasha surprised me. I really enjoyed her dance. She is a great dancer and  she has a gorgeous figure.  Also, Gleb seems less oily.

 

TO is a fine looking  man but he can go any time now.

Nick seems to be a sweetheart but his dancing is boring. He will be better as his wife's loving cheerleader. To the sidelines with you handsome.

The only thing I think when Drew is dancing, is that he looks like a gangly Adam Corolla. 

Victoria has a truly joyful energy and i am impressed by her ability to get on the floor and try, but I have not seen much dancing from her.

 

Nikki.

Edited September 29, 2017 by gohawks

[Callaphera]

2 minutes ago, suebee12 said:

Hee, I had to look him up(I did have the right person in mind!) but then I had to laugh...Frankie is only 1 inch shorter than Lars!!

To be fair, Lars is tiny on his own but he's usually behind the drum kit and his explosive anger makes him seem bigger. They're both pocket sized. Maybe a younger and fresher Lars Ulrich would have been more appropriate? 

 

2 hours ago, luvthepros said:

How can you forget Linsdey? First of all she has Mark as a partner and that makes her stand out right off the bat. In the Samba, the girl kicked her leg backward and nearly touched her head with her shoe! That is a move you see the pro dance contestants do on So You Think You Can Dance. How can you forget someone who can do that???

I don't exactly forget her but it doesn't take long for the sizzle of her routine to wear off and an hour later, all I can think is "Right. Lindsey danced, too" but it doesn't leave a huge impact on me. There's nothing wrong with her but (and here comes that infamous phrase) I don't really feel her. I don't feel like that quirky, bouncy, innocently young personality is completely genuine.

And like I said earlier, those pigtails offend me on a whole new level. They should have an age limit. For instance, it would be a cute hairstyle on a six year old. Not a 31 year old. Also, wha?! She's 31? I thought she was like 19! Now that personality really seems suspect.

[Kira53]

On 9/27/2017 at 1:02 PM, spanana said:

I also think there is the point to be made as well from a casting perspective that if the those that come in with experience are always at the top of the leaderboard and always win because they are clearly the most technical and proficient dancers, you would never get a non-ringer celeb to sign up for the show again.  Non-ringer and non-experienced celebs would never bother to sign on knowing that they will always be bested by people that come in with potentially years of experience and knowing that they have no real shot.  It's not a level playing field and never has been and some accommodations do need to be made for that in the scoring.  You can't expect someone with no experience to come in and catch up with someone with years of training in a span of 3 months.  So there are all sorts of sides to the fairness question.  But the main point being that the show needs to keep their celeb pool as wide as possible, which isn't going to happen if ringers are always at the top/winning.

The also come for a paycheck.  And to get new fans so they can be more famous and can "crossover" to new work.  Some also would like to learn to dance.  But more fame and money are good when you know you have no chance of winning (cause you have two left feet).  For example, Drew gets to break away from HGTV and his twin.  I'm sure he'd like to do other things and this creates a wider identity for him as a platform to possibly get more into acting or hosting outside of HGTV.   I think the majority of participants are trying to regain a career, or widen a career, or just make some money that they need to sustain their life because the career is not happening right now. 

[Jax7917]

On 9/27/2017 at 9:12 AM, McManda said:

 

I'm also with you on being bored with the partnerships of past seasons and voting, when I did, for someone new. By no fault of her own it's hard to muster up enthusiasm for the female ringer again paired with Derek, or the young ingenue paired with Val. It's boring. Maybe if someone like Normani had been partnered with, I don't know, Artem I would have been more interested in her.

 

I agree. I get that Mark, Val, and Derek are the more popular pros.. but enough with putting Keo with the worst dancer. Why do they keep putting him as a pro season after season knowing he's gonna be the first kicked off? He's never going to even get to the third week if they keep giving him the Barbara and Charos of the world. If they dislike him that much, put another pro in his place.

[tessaforever]

20 hours ago, ali59 said:

I've never been fond of Gleb before but with Sasha, I really like him.  So maybe it's been his partners all along that I didn't like.

I liked some of Gleb's dances with Jana - anytime they just danced and didn't try for the sex/sleaze factor. I think with Sasha, the sex kitten role wouldn't work well for her (personality-wise, not body-wise - she's gorgeous). So they're just doing great dancing, which I can totally get on board with. Maybe becoming a father has been good for Gleb. 

2 hours ago, Jaclyn88 said:

I agree. I get that Mark, Val, and Derek are the more popular pros.. but enough with putting Keo with the worst dancer. Why do they keep putting him as a pro season after season knowing he's gonna be the first kicked off? He's never going to even get to the third week if they keep giving him the Barbara and Charos of the world. If they dislike him that much, put another pro in his place.

It's like Keo took Tony's place - always getting the older ladies who are clearly cannon fodder. Although Keo has had Lolo Jones, Charlotte McKinney and Jodie Sweetin. None could have won no matter how well they danced. But lately he gets just straight-up cannon fodder. As bad as I feel for Sascha (the pro) being demoted to troupe this season, I am SO glad he didn't have to be paired with Barbara!!

[sinycalone]

To those who have questioned why anyone would vote for TO:

I have -- and the man played for my team (Eagles), and was almost run out of town!.  I can put that aside.   This is a  show about learning to dance and entertaining the audience.  He is doing both as far as I'm concerned.

[Emily-D]

Disagree with that. In my eyes Jodie Sweetin could have won with another partner and she showed it on switch up week.

[Jax7917]

why did sasha get demoted to the troupe? I thought he was sort of a fan favorite

[boyznkatz]

They usually call up Sasha when they have a tiny star. I don't think anyone fit the bill this time. I don't think they really have anything personal against him. I really didn't find his choreography with Simone that impressive, though. She should have easily made the finals.

[iMonrey]

Quote

 I had never heard of Jordan Fisher, but I really like him. Great dancer, cute, articulate, confident and enthusiastic. 

Maybe I'm shallow but I can't get past the yellow hair. I think it looks preposterous. Then again, I can't stand Mark's hair either.

Now get offa my lawn.

[boyznkatz]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Maybe I'm shallow but I can't get past the yellow hair. I think it looks preposterous. Then again, I can't stand Mark's hair either.

Now get offa my lawn.

That's the same way I feel about Drew's horse teeth. I just can't unsee them when he dances. Shallow, I know.

[Uke]

On 9/28/2017 at 1:13 AM, calipiano81 said:

On the other hand, if the non-ringer winner trend starts becoming too consistent, then the experienced celebs are going to start declining to participate, because what's the point? No matter how well you dance, the audience will use it against you or find reasons not to like you.

Agreed. Also if Frankie can use his acting skills to turn a not-so-good dance performance into a crowd-pleasing spectacle (complete with the post-dance aw shucks routine...real? or act?), why should someone like Lindsey who lacks dance or acting training knock herself out learning these dances when all she has to rely on is being petite and seemingly athletic.  Or, as I read the above comments, once again, a women needs to produce twice as much to be thought of as half as good - not sexy enough, not precise enough, not perfect enough, etc. etc.  

[McManda]

5 hours ago, tessaforever said:

Maybe becoming a father has been good for Gleb. 

FWIW Gleb was a father when he was pulling his sex appeal shtick was Jana. The daughter born this spring was their second  child; he and his wife already had a daughter, Olivia.

[Uke]

19 hours ago, luvthepros said:

On 9/26/2017 at 11:14 PM, crowceilidh said:

...........Vanessa looks so much like Brooke Burke.  Every time I see her I think Brooke is playing a joke by visiting set dressed up for dancing. 

Dunno who designed Vanessa's costume but they HATE her.
Agree about Vanessa's costume. It was one of the worst I have ever seen on a female who has a really great body. Sooo.....I'm not the only one who thinks Vanessa is a dead ringer for Brooke Burke. We are not alone........

Vanessa and Brooke look-a-likes

 

Wow! Amazing resemblance

[boyznkatz]

1 hour ago, Uke said:

Agreed. Also if Frankie can use his acting skills to turn a not-so-good dance performance into a crowd-pleasing spectacle (complete with the post-dance aw shucks routine...real? or act?), why should someone like Lindsey who lacks dance or acting training knock herself out learning these dances when all she has to rely on is being petite and seemingly athletic.  Or, as I read the above comments, once again, a women needs to produce twice as much to be thought of as half as good - not sexy enough, not precise enough, not perfect enough, etc. etc.  

Almost every season a mediocre male contestant rides the "aw shucks" schtick into the finals (Bill Engvall, James Hinchcliffe, the baseball dude last season, Frankie this season) and people always eat it up. No doubt Frankie will knock Sasha, Vanessa or Lindsey out of the finals.

[TeeMo]

1 hour ago, McManda said:

FWIW Gleb was a father when he was pulling his sex appeal shtick was Jana. The daughter born this spring was their second  child; he and his wife already had a daughter, Olivia.

And not to get too tawdry but he had a very public affair in between the two kids and his wife put him and the other woman on blast on social media for it. It was all very dramatic.

[gohawks]

1 hour ago, boyznkatz said:

Almost every season a mediocre male contestant rides the "aw shucks" schtick into the finals (Bill Engvall, James Hinchcliffe, the baseball dude last season, Frankie this season) and people always eat it up.

Every frickin-frackin season. Last year, with the ball player, was maybe the worst case of aw-shucksmania ever.

[katha]

Rewatched the dances. And no, it isn't a big deal. But Frankie's dance wasn't a 9, compared to what the others got. There was some cha-cha content, but not all that much. And what was there IMO wasn't executed that well. He's got theses permanently hunched shoulders and weird stuff going on with his upper body. What he did have, though, is an actor's ability to sell performance. Which is somewhat different from Jordan's charisma, I think. Frankie is able to get the attitude of the dance right and convince you he's better than he is. Just like "playing handsome" is a thing, "playing dancer" is also a thing. I think that's actually super interesting and it shows that he's a really good actor (which IMO he is). And it deserves to be rewarded, it would be cooler if the judges weren't totally dazzled by it, of course. He probably deserved a mix of 7s and 8s for his dance. 7s for the dancing, 8s for the performance aspect.

[ElectricCityy]

On 9/26/2017 at 11:26 PM, PBGamer89 said:

My biggest issue with the male ringers, they get excused for a variety of things, but last season with Simone, with Normani, with Heather, and even Nancy, it was "it's clear she's had training.......and i'm not ok with that or why is she on the show, she's had a dance background, or of course she's good she's a dancer it's boring, yet the men usually get "it's clear he's had training BUT" 

A woman is never gonna win again for those reasons, so sad.

Not everyone thinks like that and it's not the *stars* fault if the viewers give them for a pass for having dance training.

Edited September 30, 2017 by ElectricCityy

[madpsych78]

16 hours ago, boyznkatz said:

Almost every season a mediocre male contestant rides the "aw shucks" schtick into the finals (Bill Engvall, James Hinchcliffe, the baseball dude last season, Frankie this season) and people always eat it up. No doubt Frankie will knock Sasha, Vanessa or Lindsey out of the finals.

James was miles better than Bill Engvall and David Ross. Bill and David made it to the finals and never got 10s IIRC. Frankie could be another James Hinchcliffe - someone without prior dance experience who does pretty well and ends up earning at least one 10 on the way to the final. Drew fits more of the profile of the "aw shucks" male that could last longer than expected as long as he gets fairly good judges' scores. 

[TeeMo]

6 hours ago, madpsych78 said:

James was miles better than Bill Engvall and David Ross. Bill and David made it to the finals and never got 10s IIRC. Frankie could be another James Hinchcliffe - someone without prior dance experience who does pretty well and ends up earning at least one 10 on the way to the final. Drew fits more of the profile of the "aw shucks" male that could last longer than expected as long as he gets fairly good judges' scores. 

I agree that James should not even be mentioned in the same category as David (who I loved despite the weaker dancing) and Bill Engvall. James was better than Nyle who managed to win his season.

[SnarkyTart]

55 minutes ago, TeeMo said:

James was better than Nyle who managed to win his season.

100% yes 

[Emily-D]

Agree with all the above. Don’t know how James got lumped in a group with that lot. I don’t think Frankie’s close to being as good as James yet, but with practice he has potential to get there.

[Andie1]

On 9/26/2017 at 11:20 PM, escape said:

Jordan's a ringer - it's obvious he's had professional dance training.  Frankie is the type of contestant the DWTS audience love to root for - the surprise breakout.

I'd say that Frankie is the ringer.  Jordan doesn't have the fanbase, so it's likely Jordan will go before Frankie, which is an unfortunate side effect of being good at dancing on this show. Last season David who danced like well.. not great got to top 2.  I have only seen the dances on youtube and Jordan has a lot of content, Frankie not so much, but it is what it is, and he's got Hollywood and Bryan Cranston A lister support. I don't understand American fanbases, people get support because they won the world series or they acted with Walter White. BFD, many world class athletes who should be getting the support, don't. James Hinchcliffe 100% should have won, and if he had the fans he would have.That's why I'm not taking much of an interest in this show anymore. 

Edited October 1, 2017 by Andie1

[Lady Calypso]

5 hours ago, Andie1 said:

I'd say that Frankie is the ringer.  Jordan doesn't have the fanbase, so it's likely Jordan will go before Frankie, which is an unfortunate side effect of being good at dancing on this show. Last season David who danced like well.. not great got to top 2.  I have only seen the dances on youtube and Jordan has a lot of content, Frankie not so much, but it is what it is, and he's got Hollywood and Bryan Cranston A lister support. I don't understand American fanbases, people get support because they won the world series or they acted with Walter White. BFD, many world class athletes who should be getting the support, don't. James Hinchcliffe 100% should have won, and if he had the fans he would have.That's why I'm not taking much of an interest in this show anymore. 

Well, isn't a ringer, by definition, someone who's highly proficient at a skill (in this case, dancing) and brought on because of it? Frankie's only shown his dance ability during the show. He's a shoe-in for the finale, but not guaranteed until the votes come in. Jordan may or may not have the fanbase, but his dance ability will probably get him farther. Lindsey may be considered a ringer because of her dance ability AND her fanbase. She has a huge fanbase because of her Youtube stuff. 

Last season, David wasn't a ringer but he certainly was predicted to get far because of his fanbase, the way the show edited him and gave him extra stuff during the live shows (the Skype calls to his family, the mention of one of the Cubs games having to stop and they watched his performance, etc) and the fact that he was likable (plus, the Cubs won the first World Series last year, so that heavily contributed to David getting to the finale). But he wasn't a ringer because that would indicate that he had prior dance ability before the show. I do think that David didn't need to be in the finals, but it is what it is. If I had it my way last season, Nancy would have gotten to semi-finals, Bonner and David would have been gone before Nick, and Normani would have gotten at least second, but I would have been totally fine if she had won with Rashad getting second. Normani should have been a ringer with her 5th Harmony fanbase, but apparently either her fans were mostly international, or they just didn't care to vote, which is why she got 3rd. 

Also, if Frankie's a ringer because of Bryan Cranston, then Nikki Bella is too because she has John Cena and his fanbase (and John Cena's bigger than Bryan Cranston), and Victoria got flowers from Taylor Swift (or, more likely, Taylor Swift's agent/manager/intern) for performing to her song on Monday. Also, technically Jordan's close with Lin Manuel-Miranda, so he does have A-Lister friends of his own.

Frankie will get far because he's shown to have better dance ability than someone like Drew or Nick. Witney gave him great content for his first two dances and then was easier on him for this dance. So it's not like he's been shown to just dance around with props and little content. His first dance, a Foxtrot, is what got me hooked on him because he did a really good job...at the very least, he can sell it. He's not perfect and he's not the best dancer in the competition, but he's miles ahead of over half of them. I don't think Frankie has as big of a fanbase as he used to. He's disappeared when he quit acting so this is literally his reintroduction to people.