S02.E03: The "Perfect" Scientology Family

[Guest]

Quote

Liz Gale, a third generation Scientologist, was raised to believe that Scientology had the equation to create the perfect family. Leah and Mike sit down with her to hear how what was supposed to be "happily ever after" ended in abandonment, death, and the demise of what could have been the family that had it all.

[suzeecat]

The "sneak peeks" are messing with me!  It cuts off unexpectedly and I panic and think my dvr didn't record the entire episode.  Then, I realize I was watching the sneak peek. . .

[lor]

these stories are heartbreaking. miscavige should be in jail.

[ketose]

I'm just glad I dropped Earthlink.

[rhys]

Color me surprised that a scio kid was able to get in to MIT.

Sad, disgusting all around.

Edited August 30, 2017 by rhys
Spelink

[RedheadZombie]

2 hours ago, rhys said:

Color me surprised that a scio kid was able to get in to MIT.

Sad, disgusting all around.

The kid was probably born brilliant.  God knows CO$ didn't do it. 

[BabyVegas]

4 hours ago, rhys said:

Color me surprised that a scio kid was able to get in to MIT.

Yeah, I admit to being a little surprised at that. Especially when I saw the misspellings in his suicide note. But it sounds like he was pretty clearly brilliant. It's just a shame that Scientology stole his life.

One thing I noticed while watching this episode was that even though they're out of the cult, they still use the terminology. I assume that some of that was a stylistic choice to tell the story more completely (e.g. explaining about engrams) but some of it seems like still a force of habit. For example, Leah kept saying "LRH" instead of "L. Ron Hubbard" or just "Hubbard." I know acronyms are a big thing in Scientology, so it's interesting to note that she does still use some of the Scientology-speak even though she is firmly out of the organization. 

[jacksgirl]

Let's all get together and buy that land. Beautiful!! Tragic story.  So wish Phil had gotten psychiatric help, it may have prevented his death. He was so self aware about his fear of the fall and how this would hurt his family. Hate his "mother" with the fire of 1000 suns". She lost her son, daughter and grandsons. On a shallow note,  wow Liz had some great hair. Baby Vegas, I noticed the acronym speak too. Mike Rinder always looks so pained while listening to these stories. 

[truebluesmoky]

Even though Philip's suicide and Liz's trauma over her childhood and loss of her brother was the bigger tragedy of this episode, I can't help but also be bothered by the idea that when Liz's mom sells that gorgeous land, she will probably fork over a ton of the money she gets from the sale to the CO$.

[CindyBee]

Another episode where I end up in tears.   Such a sad story about Philip--I really lost it when Liz voiced that maybe her suicide attempt gave him the idea.   Just heartbreaking.

I know to walk away from that beautiful land will be hard but she and her husband should hold their heads up high and continue to raise their sons in a free home.  How horrible that the mom wanted control over her  grandson in exchange for the land.   

[bosawks]

I was watching this with my mom and when they came to the "sudden death" of the dad we turned to each other and said about the wife "she killed him".

Obviously we were totally kidding, I mean we were mostly kidding, mostly...........

[lor]

the mother is putting Scientology ahead of her daughter,her husband and her husbands ancestors.

i wonder if the mother will sell the land to a scientoligist.

[gunderda]

I don't understand how some people seem to be secluded into Scientology whereas other family are able to living semi-normal lives with jobs outside of the organization.  Like Liz's dad had his own business.  Her brother was able to go to a regular college. And this season these people seem to have been able to leave without any recourse - unlike the other stories where people tried to run away but were caught and brought back or they had their lives smeared.  

It's very confusing. 

[2727]

The misspellings in the suicide note were especially odd because of Scientology's insistence on looking up word definitions for hours at a time. People who attended Scientology schools usually have quite an extensive vocabulary (although not necessarily grammar).

[ramble]

I can't wrap my head around the idea of a 14 year old child trying to commit suicide and her mom having to be forced to go be near her. In fact, only going to keep the dreaded psychiatrists away and protect the cult. It breaks my heart for these kids that have grown up knowing they are afterthoughts to their parents.

The LRH birthday party really should not be taped if it's going to be seen by the outside world. Tacky, crazy weirdness. A black tie event for a dead guy. One who hasn't come back even though that is what his entire pile of bologna is based on. Production numbers and group sing alongs. Where is he? Coulld it be he's all the way dead? Of course part of me has a strong suspicion that if anyone came along claiming to be LRH Miscavige would have him quietly killed. I can't see little Davy giving up his power for anyone. 

[Whimsy]

The misspellings really stood out to me too.  That seemed very strange especially coming from Philip who was obviously a genius. 

This is a really interesting article.  Mostly because it seems to be pro-scientology and the mother is skewed positively.  I just want to punch her in the face.  This mad me the maddest:

Quote

 The move to Cambridge virtually cut him off from his parents, but Marie said her son rarely paid much attention to familial bonds anyway. Throughout his life he insisted on addressing his parents by their first names. "He didn't have a strong sense of family," Marie said. "I didn't know what the deal was. Grandparents and aunts and uncles, all that....It wasn't like he wasn't around family. He just never, I don't know....It's weird." In hindsight, she said, she should have been more concerned about her son going so far away to college at such a young age. But Philip had looked forward to MIT as a great adventure and she saw no reason to stand in his way. In fact, Marie never visited Cambridge until she came to identify her son's body.

This made it sound like it was Philip's choice to not be close to his parents and that it was Philip's fault that Marie didn't go to Cambridge to visit him while he was still alive.  It also paints him as difficult and a bit of an asshole.  I am so angry for this poor, brilliant boy.

[MisterBluxom]

12 hours ago, lor said:

these stories are heartbreaking. miscavige should be in jail.

I don't really disagree with you - just want to elaborate. He should be in a penitentiary. There is no shame in not knowing the difference because that just means you probably have never been in either one of: jail, prison or penitentiary.

Jail is used to house people for very short terms - usually for misdemeanors. Prison is used for longer sentences - maybe state crimes. I'm not exactly sure. But Penitentiary is used for people convicted of the most serious crimes - like Federal Crimes - Life in Prison. I'm not really disagreeing with your. I just want to express the opinion that he really should be in for life.

LRH was smart enough to stay on the run for most of his life. I think he knew what would likely happen to him if he was ever brought before the courts. I sure would like to contribute in some way to the termination of this terrible criminal cult.

[MisterBluxom]

31 minutes ago, lor said:

the mother is putting Scientology ahead of her daughter,her husband and her husbands ancestors.

i wonder if the mother will sell the land to a scientoligist.

With any luck, a wealthy investor/angel will buy it and give it or return it to the daughter and then also fund a legal group to arrange for having criminal charges brought against the current criminal cult.

1 minute ago, Whimsy said:

3 minutes ago, Whimsy said:

The misspellings really stood out to me too.  That seemed very strange especially coming from Philip who was obviously a genius. 

This is a really interesting article.  Mostly because it seems to be pro-scientology and the mother is skewed positively.  I just want to punch her in the face.  This mad me the maddest:

This made it sound like it was Philip's choice to not be close to his parents and that it was Philip's fault that Marie didn't go to Cambridge to visit him while he was still alive.  It also paints him as difficult and a bit of an asshole.  I am so angry for this poor, brilliant boy.

I'd be interested to learn just what this cult's attitude is towards children and spelling. We know from this program they concentrate the education of children in all things Scamatolorgy. So they probably don't spend a lot of time or any time teaching spelling. I'd just like to hear their explanation for that. Maybe they might say that they just expect children to pick up spelling as the read the Scamatology books?

[jrlr]

27 minutes ago, Whimsy said:

The misspellings really stood out to me too.  That seemed very strange especially coming from Philip who was obviously a genius. 

This is a really interesting article.  Mostly because it seems to be pro-scientology and the mother is skewed positively.  I just want to punch her in the face.  This mad me the maddest:

This made it sound like it was Philip's choice to not be close to his parents and that it was Philip's fault that Marie didn't go to Cambridge to visit him while he was still alive.  It also paints him as difficult and a bit of an asshole.  I am so angry for this poor, brilliant boy.

The mother is a willingly brainwashed monster who will undoubtedly sell that gorgeous family land to her cult for pennies on the dollar (or leave to them outright in her will).  

She has the nerve to say "He didn't have a strong sense of family"?  First of all, where would he get that from?  Second, he was heartbroken over his father's death and the trauma clearly impacted him throughout his tragically short life.

I doubt it will happen, since  "blame the victim" really does appear to be the cult's mantra,  but I hope she wakes up out of her delusional cult-mind some day and has to live with the responsibility of what she did to her children.

[toodles]

28 minutes ago, ramble said:

I can't wrap my head around the idea of a 14 year old child trying to commit suicide and her mom having to be forced to go be near her. In fact, only going to keep the dreaded psychiatrists away and protect the cult. It breaks my heart for these kids that have grown up knowing they are afterthoughts to their parents.

The LRH birthday party really should not be taped if it's going to be seen by the outside world. Tacky, crazy weirdness. A black tie event for a dead guy. One who hasn't come back even though that is what his entire pile of bologna is based on. Production numbers and group sing alongs. Where is he? Coulld it be he's all the way dead? Of course part of me has a strong suspicion that if anyone came along claiming to be LRH Miscavige would have him quietly killed. I can't see little Davy giving up his power for anyone. 

They believe in some convoluted version of reincarnation.  At least that's how I understand it.

They keep several houses ready for LRH's imminent return.  So I wasn't surprised to see a blow out birthday party for a dead guy.

[gesundheit]

I wasn't that shocked by the spelling, really -- we all know math/science geniuses who can barely eke out a sentence, just like we all know language geniuses who can barely divide a one-digit number. I mean it was REALLY bad spelling, but still not entirely implausible for a tech whiz. One thing that did strike me about this episode was the response to last week's at the beginning. This might just be an "even a stopped clock is right twice a day" thing, but I have to admit I was really uncomfortable with last week's story being told by someone who hadn't seen this girl in ages and was only Facebook friends with her. I wish they'd stick with the first- and second-hand stories so as not to give CoS plausible deniability.

[CaughtOnTape]

38 minutes ago, Whimsy said:

This made it sound like it was Philip's choice to not be close to his parents and that it was Philip's fault that Marie didn't go to Cambridge to visit him while he was still alive.  It also paints him as difficult and a bit of an asshole.  I am so angry for this poor, brilliant boy.

This is what got me the most.  His mother made him sound like she couldn't love him even though she TRIED so HARD and I just wanna punch her in the throat.  

This story reminds me of the Catholic sex scandal shit where the clergy thinks priests can be cured of molesting children by confessing their sins and praying a little harder.  Philip and Liz were bad Scientologists because they weren't trying hard enough....had nothing to do with their mother and the fact that she was a cold hearted bitch.  I am amazed at the overzealousness of the older generation when it comes to explaining why their kids are rejecting Scientology.  It isn't because of their parents being unemotional fucktwats....it's because they aren't practicing hard enough.  

[Ina123]

11 minutes ago, gesundheit said:

. I mean it was REALLY bad spelling, but still not entirely implausible for a tech whiz. 

I didn't see it as really bad spelling at all. I believe he knew exactly how to spell correctly but as a tech-savvy young person, he was just writing it in the language of young people who live in a texting world. Read their texts. They're full of abbreviations and cutsey spelling. I actually scratch my head at what I'm reading when my niece, who is 20, texts me sometimes. I know she knows the difference.

[Jillybean]

11 minutes ago, Ina123 said:

I didn't see it as really bad spelling at all. I believe he knew exactly how to spell correctly but as a tech-savvy young person, he was just writing it in the language of young people who live in a texting world. Read their texts. They're full of abbreviations and cutsey spelling. I actually scratch my head at what I'm reading when my niece, who is 20, texts me sometimes. I know she knows the difference.

I sort of thought the same, though I believe his suicide was in 1998, before the advent of texting.

[Jillybean]

29 minutes ago, gesundheit said:

One thing that did strike me about this episode was the response to last week's at the beginning. This might just be an "even a stopped clock is right twice a day" thing, but I have to admit I was really uncomfortable with last week's story being told by someone who hadn't seen this girl in ages and was only Facebook friends with her. I wish they'd stick with the first- and second-hand stories so as not to give CoS plausible deniability.

That struck me, too. In general, the S2 interviews seem to strike a different tone than those in S1. In S1 I felt it was more of a look behind the curtain in terms of what really goes in in Scientology. It was very informative in terms of giving a real look behind the scenes. Somehow this season feels different, as though there is less direct information about Scientology and its impact, and more vague connections between CO$ and the difficulties endured by the interview subjects. Also the way each interview seems to have been filmed twice (once with Leah and Mike, and once without) and edited together is very distracting to me and seems unnecessary.  Have we figured out yet whether the beautiful homes where each interview subject seems to reside (Liz Gale excepted) is where they somehow have managed to end up living, or if these are just staged for the interviews? 

Edited August 30, 2017 by Jillybean

[Whimsy]

3 minutes ago, Jillybean said:

That struck me, too. In general, the S2 interviews seem to strike a different tone than those in S1. In S1 I felt it was more of a look behind the curtain in terms of what really goes in in Scientology. It was very informative in terms of giving a real look behind the scenes. Somehow this season feels different, as though there is less direct information about Scientology and its impact, and more vague connections between CO$ and the difficulties endured by the interview subjects. Also the way each interview seems to have been filmed twice (once with Leah and Mike, and once without) and edited together is very distracting to me and seems unnecessary.  Have we figured out yet whether the beautiful homes where each interview subject seems to reside (Liz Gale excepted) is where they somehow have managed to end up living, or if these are just staged for the interviews? 

Yeah, the responses from Tayler's mom actually struck me as potentially factual which made me uncomfortable because I hate to EVER agree with any of those people.  But, Lauren was quite removed from Tayler and really didn't know what was going on with her at that time in her life.  Doesn't make the loss of a young life less tragic, though.  I just agree that we should be getting more first-hand accounts like this last one.

[VioletMarx]

1 hour ago, gunderda said:

I don't understand how some people seem to be secluded into Scientology whereas other family are able to living semi-normal lives with jobs outside of the organization.  Like Liz's dad had his own business.  Her brother was able to go to a regular college. And this season these people seem to have been able to leave without any recourse - unlike the other stories where people tried to run away but were caught and brought back or they had their lives smeared.  

It's very confusing. 

Was the father in the Sea Org? They seemed to be the ones in season 1 who had to physically escape. 

[veronicamers]

1 hour ago, MissBluxom said:

With any luck, a wealthy investor/angel will buy it and give it or return it to the daughter and then also fund a legal group to arrange for having criminal charges brought against the current criminal cult.

From your lips....

Seriously, this would be amazing.

[Lizzing]

1 hour ago, Whimsy said:

This is a really interesting article.  Mostly because it seems to be pro-scientology and the mother is skewed positively.  I just want to punch her in the face. 

Mark Ebner, as we've seen on this show, is hardly pro CO$. And remember, the article, though posted by Gawker in '08, was written in '99, so his sister wasn't available, due to age and still being in CO$, to give the counterbalancing discussion of what it was like in their family.  To me it read more like, "Here's what his mother says." with the intent that readers should infer she's an unreliable narrator due to her CO$ affiliation, failing to visit her minor child away at college, inappropriate sex discussion, and her jocular tone in discussing her son's suicide.  Really, that sex discussion skeeved me out.  Imagine dying in a newsworthy manner (not even suicide), and your parents giving an interview about your life and they include bragging that you were so into sex that you broke the bed.  Outside of being a famous porn actor that died during a shoot, that's 80 kinds of fucked up, which I'm pretty sure was Ebner's point.

 

30 minutes ago, Jillybean said:

I sort of thought the same, though I believe his suicide was in 1998, before the advent of texting.

Before texting, some people wrote like that on instant messaging services like ICQ, so it's plausible that is where he would have picked up that habit.

[Whimsy]

Just now, Lizzing said:

Mark Ebner, as we've seen on this show, is hardly pro CO$. And remember, the article, though posted by Gawker in '08, was written in '99, so his sister wasn't available, due to age and still being in CO$, to give the counterbalancing discussion of what it was like in their family.  To me it read more like, "Here's what his mother says." with the intent that readers should infer she's an unreliable narrator due to her CO$ affiliation, failing to visit her minor child away at college, inappropriate sex discussion, and her jocular tone in discussing her son's suicide.  Really, that sex discussion skeeved me out.  Imagine dying in a newsworthy manner (not even suicide), and your parents giving an interview about your life and they include bragging that you were so into sex that you broke the bed.  Outside of being a famous porn actor that died during a shoot, that's 80 kinds of fucked up, which I'm pretty sure was Ebner's point.

 

Before texting, some people wrote like that on instant messaging services like ICQ, so it's plausible that is where he would have picked up that habit.

I have to admit, I didn't look at the byline.  Thanks for putting that into context.  I think I'd only happy if it was written with clear contempt for this horrible woman.  ;)

[veronicamers]

59 minutes ago, Jillybean said:

That struck me, too. In general, the S2 interviews seem to strike a different tone than those in S1. In S1 I felt it was more of a look behind the curtain in terms of what really goes in in Scientology. It was very informative in terms of giving a real look behind the scenes. Somehow this season feels different, as though there is less direct information about Scientology and its impact, and more vague connections between CO$ and the difficulties endured by the interview subjects. Also the way each interview seems to have been filmed twice (once with Leah and Mike, and once without) and edited together is very distracting to me and seems unnecessary.  Have we figured out yet whether the beautiful homes where each interview subject seems to reside (Liz Gale excepted) is where they somehow have managed to end up living, or if these are just staged for the interviews? 

Yes. My husband I were talking about this last night. The tone is different. And I chalk it up to a couple of things. First, a lot of the subjects in season 1 had rarely, if ever, spoken out and thus their accounting of their experiences come across as more raw and spontaneous. Second, a lot of the subjects were dealing with intense pain and guilt for essentially "aiding and abetting" Scientology. Through their own leadership roles they had contributed to other people's suffering and Leah's show was providing a framework for beginning the process of reconciling with that. It made for very compelling viewing (it looks like we'll be getting an interview subject in this vein next week). Also, I just think that given the attention the show got in its initial run, there are going to be people coming forward who clearly know what the show is and know what message they want to deliver. I don't mean to make it sound like they are calculating or anything...it's just a known venue now. It is similar to how I think shows like Intervention and Hoarders have evolved over the years. Like, if you are a family member appearing on the 17th season of Intervention, you kind of know the drill. 

Edited August 30, 2017 by veronicamers

[Showthyme]

2 hours ago, ramble said:

The LRH birthday party really should not be taped if it's going to be seen by the outside world. Tacky, crazy weirdness. A black tie event for a dead guy.

Yeah, that birthday party was creepy. LRH was creepy. It amazes me that he was able to create a cult-following because he was so strange-looking. I really cannot stand to look at him.

Scientology forces their members to be silent. Tragically, that breeds abuse and can lead to suicide. My heart breaks for them.

I feel terrible for Liz Gale. These victims lose so much, from their parents, to their loss of a childhood, relatives, friends, money, etc. Scientology rips everything from them. Scientology will turn on Liz's mother too. No one seems to really survive and thrive in this cult. I wonder how she will feel after she turns her land profits over to Scientology and then she is put into the Hole or discarded like trash.

I would like to hear more from the reporters and lawyers who have come up against Scientology. They offer a different slant on it and it is heartbreaking to hear these victims stories week after week.

An angel buying the land for Liz may not be a good idea because Scientology knows where to find and harass her and her children. Ugh.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Showthyme
Adding another thought

[TheGreenWave]

2 hours ago, ramble said:

I can't wrap my head around the idea of a 14 year old child trying to commit suicide and her mom having to be forced to go be near her. In fact, only going to keep the dreaded psychiatrists away and protect the cult. It breaks my heart for these kids that have grown up knowing they are afterthoughts to their parents.

God, me too.  I kept thinking between this episode and the first one: can you imagine being 12 or 14, going through puberty and becoming a teenager, and you are taken away from your parents with no guidance, protection, love, regular education all because they decided to dedicate YOUR life to CO$??  And that you are sacrificed for the greater good of CO$??  Just so tragic.  And  your entire life should be dedicated to making the world "clear" and that is your sole purpose, and your parents aren't really your "parents" in the billion year scheme of things.   No wonder these kids are thirsting for professional help - yet they would be betraying CO$ if they actually went out to seek such help.  It is just so difficult to imagine.

[LilWharveyGal]

Mike Rinder commented on his blog today that the land is already sold and that Liz and her family no longer live there.  :(

[fifty8th]

Ortega's Article about Liz Gale is an interesting read, you get more info including more on her suicide attempt and that Ham from Sandlot is a scientologist.

[iMonrey]

Quote

One thing I noticed while watching this episode was that even though they're out of the cult, they still use the terminology.

And a lot of the terminology seems to consist of made-up words. What were they calling it, when a mother was causing her child to act up? Something like re-animate?

These shows are getting to be depressing, except instead of making me sad they make me angry. You know the money from the sale of all that land is going straight into the Co$.

I still want to know how they are getting all of this video footage - like the video of LRH's birthday event. I'm assuming the Co$ didn't just hand that over, so how did A&E get hold of it? Plus all these training videos and recruiting videos. Some of them were commercials aired publicly in the 80s so that I get, but the others? Used internally within the Co$? Where are those coming from? Maybe Rinder took a bunch of material with him when he left?

[CaughtOnTape]

44 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

And a lot of the terminology seems to consist of made-up words. What were they calling it, when a mother was causing her child to act up? Something like re-animate?

These shows are getting to be depressing, except instead of making me sad they make me angry. You know the money from the sale of all that land is going straight into the Co$.

I still want to know how they are getting all of this video footage - like the video of LRH's birthday event. I'm assuming the Co$ didn't just hand that over, so how did A&E get hold of it? Plus all these training videos and recruiting videos. Some of them were commercials aired publicly in the 80s so that I get, but the others? Used internally within the Co$? Where are those coming from? Maybe Rinder took a bunch of material with him when he left?

Re-stimulate.  The idea that you are affecting your kid because of shit that happened when they were in the womb.  She was basically made to believe his issues after the surgery were her fault because of something she'd done while she was pregnant with him.  

So added to the list of the many fucked up things this church is...it's also sexist.  So when you're pregnant you should basically lay in a bed and do nothing for fear you've already fucked your kid up before they're even born.

I was reading something a few days ago about that one video that they show where Tom Cruise is seen extolling the wonderfulness that is Miscavige and apparently that was a leak.  I believe that's the same one where they salute each other.  (WTF?)  One of the guys they interviewed last season was the dude in charge of putting all those videos together and I would assume when he left he took a lot of that with him.

[BabyVegas]

3 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

I'd be interested to learn just what this cult's attitude is towards children and spelling.

See, that's actually why I was so surprised. I remember reading somewhere (maybe Leah's book? Might have been Marc Headley's book?) that part of their Scientology training is "language precision" where they are required to look words up in the dictionary and write out definitions for even the smallest thing. I think Hubbard had some idea that various different ills are caused by people not understanding each other. I remember that because it struck me as really similar to the book The Giver, of all things. They were very big on language precision too.

[Matryoshka]

4 hours ago, gunderda said:

I don't understand how some people seem to be secluded into Scientology whereas other family are able to living semi-normal lives with jobs outside of the organization.  Like Liz's dad had his own business.  Her brother was able to go to a regular college. And this season these people seem to have been able to leave without any recourse - unlike the other stories where people tried to run away but were caught and brought back or they had their lives smeared.  

It's very confusing. 

Someone else can probably explain it better but I think it's the difference between being a "public" Scientologist and being part of the Sea Org.  A public member lives the lifestyle, takes classes and donates money but has their own job and home outside the "church." A Sea Org member is "clergy" and works for the COS for pennies and lives in provided housing. They're the ones signing the billion year contracts and living behind barbed wire that get chased down if they "blow."

Edited August 30, 2017 by Matryoshka

[msrachelj]

8 hours ago, jacksgirl said:

Let's all get together and buy that land. Beautiful!! Tragic story.  So wish Phil had gotten psychiatric help, it may have prevented his death. He was so self aware about his fear of the fall and how this would hurt his family. Hate his "mother" with the fire of 1000 suns". She lost her son, daughter and grandsons. On a shallow note,  wow Liz had some great hair. Baby Vegas, I noticed the acronym speak too. Mike Rinder always looks so pained while listening to these stories. 

did they mention how she is living there if she does not own the land? if she is no longer a scientologist how can her family even communicate with her about the family ranch?

[dirtydi]

On the topic of the interviews, I think either Rinder or Leah said on twitter that they do the interviews at either the interviewee 's homes and/or in hotel rooms.

Edited August 30, 2017 by dirtydi

[msrachelj]

2 hours ago, veronicamers said:

Yes. My husband I were talking about this last night. The tone is different. And I chalk it up to a couple of things. First, a lot of the subjects in season 1 had rarely, if ever, spoken out and thus their accounting of their experiences come across as more raw and spontaneous. Second, a lot of the subjects were dealing with intense pain and guilt for essentially "aiding and abetting" Scientology. Through their own leadership roles they had contributed to other people's suffering and Leah's show was providing a framework for beginning the process of reconciling with that. It made for very compelling viewing (it looks like we'll be getting an interview subject in this vein next week). Also, I just think that given the attention the show got in its initial run, there are going to be people coming forward who clearly know what the show is and know what message they want to deliver. I don't mean to make it sound like they are calculating or anything...it's just a known venue now. It is similar to how I think shows like Intervention and Hoarders have evolved over the years. Like, if you are a family member appearing on the 17th season of Intervention, you kind of know the drill. 

agreed. i am not finding this season as good as the last. something seems different about the people in these interviews. they seem so much more glammed up for the camera, if you will. especially this last one. i just got the feeling she was in makeup quite a lot. i can't explain it.

[Whimsy]

3 minutes ago, msrachelj said:

did they mention how she is living there if she does not own the land? if she is no longer a scientologist how can her family even communicate with her about the family ranch?

They didn't specifically say.  I was also surprised she was allowed to live there, but then they stated that her mother was selling the land instead of letting her live there.  Maybe it was left to her as part of a trust or something?

[WInterfalls]

2 hours ago, Jillybean said:

Also the way each interview seems to have been filmed twice (once with Leah and Mike, and once without) and edited together is very distracting to me and seems unnecessary.

They were using that technique last season too.  I remember it clearly with Tom DeVocht, Mark and Claire Headly and Aaron Smith-Levin.  I think it's just a bit more stylized this season.  It's a common documentary style that allows for getting the whole story because things can get forgotten or left out when talking to Mike and Leah or new things brought out by talking to them that was not mentioned in the talking head. 

[grooveshinney]

1 hour ago, BabyVegas said:

See, that's actually why I was so surprised. I remember reading somewhere (maybe Leah's book? Might have been Marc Headley's book?) that part of their Scientology training is "language precision" where they are required to look words up in the dictionary and write out definitions for even the smallest thing. I think Hubbard had some idea that various different ills are caused by people not understanding each other. I remember that because it struck me as really similar to the book The Giver, of all things. They were very big on language precision too.

Maybe that was another part of his "fuck you" to LRH,  like committing suicide on LRH's birthday? Leaving a suicide note filled with misspellings.

[iMonrey]

Quote

I was reading something a few days ago about that one video that they show where Tom Cruise is seen extolling the wonderfulness that is Miscavige and apparently that was a leak.  I believe that's the same one where they salute each other.  (WTF?)  One of the guys they interviewed last season was the dude in charge of putting all those videos together and I would assume when he left he took a lot of that with him.

I wonder why the Co$ hasn't tried to sue A&E for using copyrighted material. There must be some kind of legal loophole involved here that would be interesting to know about.

Quote

Re-stimulate.

That's it! Thanks. Like I said . . . made up words.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, CaughtOnTape said:

Re-stimulate.  The idea that you are affecting your kid because of shit that happened when they were in the womb.  She was basically made to believe his issues after the surgery were her fault because of something she'd done while she was pregnant with him.  

Reminds me of all the stories about Katie Holmes having to give birth to Siri silently because of Scientology teachings.

I'm finding this season to be not quite as interesting as last.  Probably just as important to bringing down Scientology, but last season there was more of a behind the curtains look at Scientology. The stories this season are so depressing that they are hard to watch, and in a lot of cases, the stories aren't as unique to Scientology.

[peaceknit]

7 hours ago, truebluesmoky said:

Even though Philip's suicide and Liz's trauma over her childhood and loss of her brother was the bigger tragedy of this episode, I can't help but also be bothered by the idea that when Liz's mom sells that gorgeous land, she will probably fork over a ton of the money she gets from the sale to the CO$.

Where exactly was that land located? I missed it. It looked to me like somewhere near the California north coast.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, peaceknit said:

Where exactly was that land located? I missed it. It looked to me like somewhere near the California north coast.

Oregon.

[peaceknit]

1 hour ago, CaughtOnTape said:

Re-stimulate.  The idea that you are affecting your kid because of shit that happened when they were in the womb.  She was basically made to believe his issues after the surgery were her fault because of something she'd done while she was pregnant with him.  

I gasped when they said this! It's so....medieval. What kind of person with any kind of intelligence believes that shite? (I know, rhetorical question).