S02.E02: The Ultimate Failure of Scientology

[Guest]

Quote

Scientology promises relief from all of life's ills, but those suffering from depression and suicidal ideation often feel they have nowhere to turn. Hearing the tragic stories of Aaron Poulin, a member of the Sea Org who committed suicide at 21, and Tayler Tweed, who died at only 19, only strengthen Leah's commitment to continue challenging Church practices.

[SanLynn]

I haven't stopped crying yet, both from the stories and the reactions of Co$ and it's members to what happened with Aaron and Taylor. I'm also physically ill..... That's all I've got right now.

Edited August 23, 2017 by SanLynn
Clarity

[Sarahsmile416]

Of all the episodes I've seen...all of the heart wrenching things I've heard, this was the one that made me cry.  Poor Lauren - I cannot even comprehend the mindset of Tayler's mother. She is the one who should feel guilt, not Lauren. As a mother, I can't understand being so blasé about your child's pain and inner turmoil.

[mattie0808]

I. AM. SO. BLINDINGLY. ANGRY. WITH. THAT. SO-CALLED. "MOTHER." What in the actual, literal $%&#!

I can't believe a woman being sent to work immediately after her husband's suicide was somehow topped in the same damn episode. Good lord.

After that "she signed an affidavit saying her husband's death was totes not our fault!" I was almost afraid of what my reaction would have been had there been a similar disclaimer at the end, from the mother or anyone else. I may throw my phone into the Hudson if there are videos from the widow's "friends" or that "mother" on a Scientology hit site tomorrow. Help!

Edited August 23, 2017 by mattie0808

[BabyVegas]

Every time I watch this show I'm struck by how sick Rinder looks during the interviews. He looks like he knows what's coming and he wants to go back in time and change it. I feel terrible for him and I hope that participating in this show does help him make amends for what he did while in Scientology.

I will never stop hating this "church."

[JAndy]

9 hours ago, mattie0808 said:

I. AM. SO. BLINDINGLY. ANGRY. WITH. THAT. SO-CALLED. "MOTHER." What in the actual, literal $%&#!

I can't believe a woman being sent to work immediately after her husband's suicide was somehow topped in the same damn episode. Good lord.

After that "she signed an affidavit saying her husband's death was totes not our fault!" I was almost afraid of what my reaction would have been had there been a similar disclaimer at the end, from the mother or anyone else. I may throw my phone into the Hudson if there are videos from the widow's "friends" or that "mother" on a Scientology hit site tomorrow. Help!

I was thinking that she signed that disclaimer because they made her sign it in order to get out. So awful. 

[Guest]

I only saw the first half and that was enough for now.  The part where she went right back to her post afterwards and sat there, alone, crying was awful. The fact that they told people he had blown and expected her to keep up the lie was also chilling.

Rinder looked heartbroken by the whole turn of events as well.

[HZAnita]

Such a sad, sad episode.  If I were Mike and Leah, I would be an emotional wreck.  Especially Mike because he played such a huge part in some of the awful things Scientology has done.  I too was appalled by that Scientology statement about her signing an affidavit.  WTH???  Who has a person sign an affidavit like that???  Just the fact that they did and then used it as defense shows me how guilty they are.  Ugh.  I also can't get over how absolutely beautiful Tayler was.  She looked like a painting in real life.  Her mother is one cold, heartless, brainwashed woman.

[toodles]

14 minutes ago, HZAnita said:

Such a sad, sad episode.  If I were Mike and Leah, I would be an emotional wreck.  Especially Mike because he played such a huge part in some of the awful things Scientology has done.  I too was appalled by that Scientology statement about her signing an affidavit.  WTH???  Who has a person sign an affidavit like that???  Just the fact that they did and then used it as defense shows me how guilty they are.  Ugh.  I also can't get over how absolutely beautiful Tayler was.  She looked like a painting in real life.  Her mother is one cold, heartless, brainwashed woman.

Heartbreaking

[Carolina Girl]

11 hours ago, Sarahsmile416 said:

Of all the episodes I've seen...all of the heart wrenching things I've heard, this was the one that made me cry.  Poor Lauren - I cannot even comprehend the mindset of Tayler's mother. She is the one who should feel guilt, not Lauren. As a mother, I can't understand being so blasé about your child's pain and inner turmoil.

I can't either.  I hope David Miscavage burns in hell right next to L. Ron Hubbard.  

[Seelouis]

25 people around her and not one even puts an arm around her as she cries over her dead husband.  They just move away to do PR control  and let her scream on her own.  Heartless doesn't even begin to describe it. 

[Sarahsmile416]

29 minutes ago, Carolina Girl said:

I can't either.  I hope David Miscavage burns in hell right next to L. Ron Hubbard.  

Amen. There is a special place in hell for those two. 

I want to say the same goes for Tayler's mother...but the truth is that Miscavige created that crap. 

[Lizzing]

Both of these stories were very sad and showed how heartless CO$ is once again, but I've got some questions on the Tayler case.  First, it's been hammered into our (the audiences') heads that CO$ folks aren't allowed wide Internet access.  I wanted some discussion on how Tayler, her mother, and apparently quite a few Scientologists had FB access and posted regularly on it, seemingly without CO$ repercussions.  Second, and more importantly, there was some room in this episode for discussions of lingering CO$ mind control/conditioning even years after departure from the cult.  Lauren said she felt guilty for not helping Tayler in 2013 for fear of what CO$ would do to her (Lauren), even though Lauren left in 2006.  To be clear, I don't think Lauren should feel the slightest bit guilty for ANY reason, but since it was stated specifically (really though by Leah in a summation with Lauren nodding along) that it was because of CO$ doctrine that she didn't do more and that is why she felt guilty for not intervening further, clearly there's a lot of crap she hung onto even seven years post cult.  And yeah, it might have meant a two hour episode, but I wouldn't have complained.  Maybe there will be a whole episode on postCO$ acclimation; we've had dribs and drabs of it, but not a really good, detailed discussion of the processes that people go through when they leave and all the things they have to learn (outside of the obvious job skills which most don't get in their schools & SeaOrg).

[sistersledge]

43 minutes ago, Lizzing said:

how Tayler, her mother, and apparently quite a few Scientologists had FB access and posted regularly on it, seemingly without CO$ repercussions.

I was wondering the same thing and I THINK it's only SeaOrg who are not allowed internet? 

[Whimsy]

I'm thinking it's closely monitored as to who you can "friend" and what you post. But, that's just a guess. I was also surprised. 

[Rlb8031]

1 hour ago, Lizzing said:

Both of these stories were very sad and showed how heartless CO$ is once again, but I've got some questions on the Tayler case.  First, it's been hammered into our (the audiences') heads that CO$ folks aren't allowed wide Internet access.  I wanted some discussion on how Tayler, her mother, and apparently quite a few Scientologists had FB access and posted regularly on it, seemingly without CO$ repercussions.  Second, and more importantly, there was some room in this episode for discussions of lingering CO$ mind control/conditioning even years after departure from the cult.  Lauren said she felt guilty for not helping Tayler in 2013 for fear of what CO$ would do to her (Lauren), even though Lauren left in 2006.  To be clear, I don't think Lauren should feel the slightest bit guilty for ANY reason, but since it was stated specifically (really though by Leah in a summation with Lauren nodding along) that it was because of CO$ doctrine that she didn't do more and that is why she felt guilty for not intervening further, clearly there's a lot of crap she hung onto even seven years post cult.  And yeah, it might have meant a two hour episode, but I wouldn't have complained.  Maybe there will be a whole episode on postCO$ acclimation; we've had dribs and drabs of it, but not a really good, detailed discussion of the processes that people go through when they leave and all the things they have to learn (outside of the obvious job skills which most don't get in their schools & SeaOrg).

On the internet thing, the total prohibition against internet access is a SeaOrg and CO$ upper echelon thing. For "public" members, you are still discouraged from using the Internet to look at material about or against Scientology, but there is a much greater usage for general purposes. Scientologists use it as a way to monitor each other and often "narc" on people who have too many wog friends or associations outside the CO$ circle. For high-profile public members like the Haggis', I'm sure their FB feeds were tracked and monitored especially after leaving the religion to make sure they weren't badmouthing the crazies. And as for what CO$ could actually do to her after she left, one thing would been to have put pressure on people like Tayler to disconnect from her and cut her completely out of their lives. 

Edited August 23, 2017 by Rlb8031

[Twiz44]

I also wondered about the internet thing and thought maybe they could be on the internet but were not "allowed" to search anything to do with CO$.

[sistersledge]

There are more horrifying details to Marie's story on Tony Ortega's site, mostly involving her family.

[catkit]

I was in Scientology for a (thankfully) brief period. Public Scientologists aren't prohibited from going on the Internet. I was also never told that I couldn't go to anti-Scientology sites but it was emphasized that the people who ran and posted to such sites were disgruntled ex-members, the psych industry, etc. I'm sure that if it came up during auditing or while writing up O/Ws (basically like confessions of bad things one has done) there would have been an issue.

[iMonrey]

Quote

I. AM. SO. BLINDINGLY. ANGRY. WITH. THAT. SO-CALLED. "MOTHER." What in the actual, literal $%&#!

Sadly, shunning a child because they have abandoned their religion is not unique to Scientology. 

I'm just now noticing that it seems as if everyone on this show is interviewed twice. While Marie was telling her story, the show kept cutting back and forth to her telling it to Mike and Leah, and then to her telling it directly to the camera in an otherwise empty room. Which means, apparently, the show sends a camera crew to get the whole story and then Mike and Leah show up and she had to tell the whole story all over again. That seems needlessly cruel given the emotional pain she goes through in relating it.

It also occurs to me that one problem this show might have is the network it airs on, because A&E's credibility is really in the toilet right now. The show that airs immediately following this one is a documentary that, impossible as it may seem, is trying to push the idea that Scott Peterson might actually be innocent of killing his wife Lecy.  A&E did the same thing with Jon Benet Ramsey's family earlier this year. And the commercials on this show are promoting the upcoming series with Rob Lowe and his sons hunting for Bigfoot. 

So taken altogether, someone would be rightly justified in criticizing this show just by pointing out what network it airs on. The one with all sorts of crazy conspiracy shows, plus Hoarders and Duck Dynasty. A&E used to have some class and now it's all crappy exploitation nonsense.

[WInterfalls]

That was very sad indeed.  I could not believe they actually made Marie go back work after that and she couldn't even tell people why she was crying.  If you want marie's full story which manages to actually be worse than what we saw last night read the story here: https://tonyortega.org/2016/12/09/disconnection-neglect-and-suicide-scientology-its-even-worse-than-you-think/ (spoiler: Her mother really sucks) 

 

Taylor death was so tragic and so preventable.  She was reaching out for help for months, and no one got her any actual help they just told her not to talk about it.  

And yes public Scientologists can and do use the internet.  There are countless stories on Tony Ortega's blog about people having reports filed against them and even being declared because they liked a facebook post or tweet.  What they are not supposed to do in anyway is read or post anything negative about the church.  

[TheGreenWave]

58 minutes ago, WInterfalls said:

If you want marie's full story which manages to actually be worse than what we saw last night read the story here: https://tonyortega.org/2016/12/09/disconnection-neglect-and-suicide-scientology-its-even-worse-than-you-think/ (spoiler: Her mother really sucks) 

Holy shit that was a tough read.  I just can't even....

[TVcritic]

This makes me so sad and angry! I read about suicide of Scientology members as early as the 1990's. The article was in Time Magazine, from 1991!

Here it is: http://www.xenu.net/archive/media/time910605.html

I wonder what could have been if Scientology had been severely prosecuted back then. How many lives could have been saved ...

I hope this show will be the downfall of that horrible "church"!

Edited August 23, 2017 by TVcritic

[Evil Queen]

18 hours ago, BabyVegas said:

Every time I watch this show I'm struck by how sick Rinder looks during the interviews. He looks like he knows what's coming and he wants to go back in time and change it. I feel terrible for him and I hope that participating in this show does help him make amends for what he did while in Scientology.

I will never stop hating this "church."

This was what I thought every time they showed him. He had tears in his eyes the whole time when listening to these ladies. It was heartbreaking to hear these stories but then to see his face during it all as well. 

 

13 hours ago, JAndy said:

I was thinking that she signed that disclaimer because they made her sign it in order to get out. So awful. 

This is what I thought as well. I didn't see that she had a choice in it at all and she knew it. It was disgusting. 

 

6 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Sadly, shunning a child because they have abandoned their religion is not unique to Scientology. 

I'm just now noticing that it seems as if everyone on this show is interviewed twice. While Marie was telling her story, the show kept cutting back and forth to her telling it to Mike and Leah, and then to her telling it directly to the camera in an otherwise empty room. Which means, apparently, the show sends a camera crew to get the whole story and then Mike and Leah show up and she had to tell the whole story all over again. That seems needlessly cruel given the emotional pain she goes through in relating it.

It also occurs to me that one problem this show might have is the network it airs on, because A&E's credibility is really in the toilet right now. The show that airs immediately following this one is a documentary that, impossible as it may seem, is trying to push the idea that Scott Peterson might actually be innocent of killing his wife Lecy.  A&E did the same thing with Jon Benet Ramsey's family earlier this year. And the commercials on this show are promoting the upcoming series with Rob Lowe and his sons hunting for Bigfoot. 

So taken altogether, someone would be rightly justified in criticizing this show just by pointing out what network it airs on. The one with all sorts of crazy conspiracy shows, plus Hoarders and Duck Dynasty. A&E used to have some class and now it's all crappy exploitation nonsense.

Agree having them tell their story more than one time is a bit much for these people. 

OMG I have been so pissed off seeing those damn ads for that stupid so called documentary on that piece of shit murderer. Its on during this show and Escaping Polygamy during every commercial break. 2 shows that deal in so many messed up issues and they want to push a damn show for this asshole. To top it off put it on after this one. Sorry, I get angry at A&E more and more every time I see it. I don't like Rob Lowe and the silly show they are doing but I can at least put up with those ads compared to ones on a murderer trying to claim innocent. Sadly though no matter what network it aired on there is some show(s) that would probably have people criticizing things because of that of the crazy conspiracies, fake drama or something else. 

And yes shunning a child/family member/friend is not unique to this. The way they do things though is not what others normally do though when they shun whoever. As it hounding them like they do and if they say one wrong word to have their name and face splashed all over as a horrible person with loads of lies against them. 

 

Thank you to those explaining about the internet usage. Its been said so many times they aren't suppose to be on it so I was questioning that whole thing and how it was ok. Makes sense now. Lauren (I think that was her name) is a very talented painter. The picture of her friend captured so much and was beautiful. 

[HZAnita]

6 hours ago, WInterfalls said:

That was very sad indeed.  I could not believe they actually made Marie go back work after that and she couldn't even tell people why she was crying.  If you want marie's full story which manages to actually be worse than what we saw last night read the story here: https://tonyortega.org/2016/12/09/disconnection-neglect-and-suicide-scientology-its-even-worse-than-you-think/ (spoiler: Her mother really sucks) 

Whoa.  That article is awful.  That mother has some serious, serious issues.  She has lost all of her children and doesn't even seem to care.  I am stunned.  I hope this woman wakes up someday.  In the meantime, her surviving kids are much better off without her and Scientology.  

 

When I want the internet to win...

[Maelstrom]

I don't even know what to say anymore.

Every week I think that this has to be the worst thing I've heard. But tonight, seeing a parent publicly tell everyone she knows to distance themselves from her own (clearly troubled) daughter might just be the worst, truly.

This is what I want people to think of when they hear about Scientology: not Xenu and crazy Tom Cruise, but the ruined lives of people like Aaron and Tayler. Of people who are taught by their "church" that they shouldn't reach out for help; or if they try, there is no one there to help them.

As for the two separate interviews, I figure it's second unit doing the one on one interviews. I figure whatever information the interviewee doesn't cover with Leah and Mike (whether because of their emotional state or because they don't have documentation, evidence, etc with them) gets addressed one on one. Maybe it's helpful for the interviewee to have a break between interviews, I don't know - I can only guess. Regardless, they are so brave for speaking out as they have and I have nothing but respect and gratitude to them.

This season sure as hell isn't pulling any punches.

[WInterfalls]

4 hours ago, HZAnita said:

 That mother has some serious, serious issues.  She has lost all of her children and doesn't even seem to care.  I am stunned.  I hope this woman wakes up someday.  In the meantime, her surviving kids are much better off without her and Scientology.  

Not only that but as of today she done one of Scientology's hate videos against her daughter. Aaron's mother also did a video where she blamed Marie for "not taking care" of her son since she was his wife. It's so disgusting on every possible level. 

[Desert Rat]

On 8/22/2017 at 11:04 PM, BabyVegas said:

Every time I watch this show I'm struck by how sick Rinder looks during the interviews. He looks like he knows what's coming and he wants to go back in time and change it. I feel terrible for him and I hope that participating in this show does help him make amends for what he did while in Scientology.

I will never stop hating this "church."

Mike seems oddly quiet and not as animated this season.  These stories are taking a toll on him and I hope he is getting good psychological support and taking care of this mental health. 

[HZAnita]

6 hours ago, WInterfalls said:

Not only that but as of today she done one of Scientology's hate videos against her daughter. Aaron's mother also did a video where she blamed Marie for "not taking care" of her son since she was his wife. It's so disgusting on every possible level. 

Both of these mothers obviously need someone to blame - anyone but themselves and their "religion."  If the loss of your child(ren) doesn't wake you up from your brainwashing, nothing can. I mean, how blind can a person be???  Of course, if they do ever wake up, they are going to be devastated for the rest of their lives.  This may be the only way they can cope. </trying to understand>

[Ina123]

Just FYI.

[Ina123]

11 hours ago, Evil Queen said:

11 hours ago, Evil Queen said:

Agree having them tell their story more than one time is a bit much for these people. 

 

It may be a way of vetting their stories. Making sure the stories match.

[Uncle JUICE]

2 hours ago, HZAnita said:

Both of these mothers obviously need someone to blame - anyone but themselves and their "religion."  If the loss of your child(ren) doesn't wake you up from your brainwashing, nothing can. I mean, how blind can a person be???  Of course, if they do ever wake up, they are going to be devastated for the rest of their lives.  This may be the only way they can cope. </trying to understand>

I think you nailed it: at some level, they know if they do wake up, they own part of this tragedy personally, they have culpability. Their subconscious likely pushes them further into this protective space despite its inherent danger to the individual, and they're deeper into the religion as a result. It self perpetuates in a way. All religions do this ("a plan you can't know but is bigger than you, only we can offer you even an inkling of comfort and understanding about it") in some way or another, but this place is almost openly nefarious about it. Brazen, even. 

[Guest]

Regarding telling their stories a second time, often when I tell an emotional story but I want to get my point across, I find myself thinking later "I wish I had remembered to say XYZ" or "I completely left out ABC!"  I can see that happening here, and the producers going back (without Mike and Leah) to fill in some of those details.  If I was going to put my story out there (assuming I had a Scientology story; I don't other than considering going to the Scientology office in town and signing up for info under my ex-boss' info as a way to get him spammed), I would want to put it all out there to expose as much as possible.

[Lady Iris]

I was sorely reminded of Tom Cruise's insane rant back when about the evils of seeking treatment with antidepressants against somebody, I forgot who, was suffering from post partum depression. Its heartbreaking that what Tayler was suffering from could have been eased with proper medical treatment. Nobody, in today's day and age, should suffer needlessly. What kind of supposed church would allow their followers to suffer? These stories are just gut wrenching and I can't commend Leah and Mike for taking on this beast.

Edited August 24, 2017 by Lady Iris

[dcubed]

38 minutes ago, Lady Iris said:

I was sorely reminded of Tom Cruise's insane rant back when about the evils of seeking treatment with antidepressants against somebody, I forgot who, was suffering from post partum depression.

It was Brooke Shields, who is a far better person than me and accepted his apology and then went to his wedding. 

 

38 minutes ago, Lady Iris said:

What kind of supposed church would allow their followers to suffer?

And what kind of mother would not rush to her child and do everything possible to help them get better and ease their pain?  I don't even have biological children (two wonderful steps) and I would go to the ends of the earth for them.  It's inexplicable to me. 

4 hours ago, Ina123 said:

Just FYI.

 

Child labor, child abuse and human trafficking...this should be everything the government needs to shut them down.  They need to do a raid on Flag, The Hole, and everywhere else people are being held, round them up and separate them from the "officers".  Many might not talk but I bet a lot would. 

Edited August 24, 2017 by dcubed

[Baltimore Betty]

My daughter just called me, she works for a large multi national company and they had a meeting with a vendor/client who is from Clearwater Florida and their offices are across the street from the Church of Scientology headquarters...she literally was freaked out because she learned that it is no accident as to why his office is located there.  The client is a millionaire with his own private plane, she said he looked like Tom Cruise and was very charming.  Funny, I really did not think about dealing with Scientologists in a business sense but I guess it happens. 

[Newberry]

I was both heartbroken and sickened by this entire episode. given the fact that Scientology does not like broken people or those who stir up trouble, I couldn't help but wonder if Scientologists actually strung the rope or pulled the trigger and reported it suicide. they are EVIL, EVIL people.

[Carolina Girl]

On 8/23/2017 at 7:30 AM, Sarahsmile416 said:

Amen. There is a special place in hell for those two. 

I want to say the same goes for Tayler's mother...but the truth is that Miscavige created that crap. 

Which is why I didn't wish her a similar fate.  Because the day she wakes up to the monstrosity that is $cientology and how she treated her daughter will the beginning of her sojourn of HELL.ON.EARTH.

[jadecorleone]

Im not sure what more I can add here, but at the very least along with bringing down this cult, I sincerely hope that this show gives Leah, Mike and all those who shared their stories with us a measure of peace. 

Edited August 24, 2017 by jadecorleone

[dwarmed]

I always think of what a nice life these people might have had if they did not have the misfortune of being born into Scientology and all the unnecessary suffering that goes with it. It's so tragic. 

 

I'll never understand how these mothers are totally bereft of any motherly instinct to protect and love their children. I guess the Bridge to Total Freedom includes freedom from love, family, kindness, compassion, humanity. 

[Evil Queen]

16 hours ago, Desert Rat said:

Mike seems oddly quiet and not as animated this season.  These stories are taking a toll on him and I hope he is getting good psychological support and taking care of this mental health. 

I said that to my husband when we were watching this episode. He agreed and that it was probably his trying to deal with his part of things as well. Plus he also is probably thinking of his own kids during these moments. 

Side note: My husband was looking around on Craigslist under the musician sections and what does he come across that doesn't belong in that section? An ad for this freakish cult to hear some guy speak or something like that and stuff about thinking clearly and whatever else. I told him its them trying to get the word out on their bs any way they can now it seems with Leah's show and so many others speaking up against them. 

[bethster2000]

On 8/22/2017 at 11:04 PM, BabyVegas said:

I will never stop hating this "church."

I won't, either.  This episode was very hard for me to watch.  My uncle was a Scientologist for most of his adult life.  He spent an entire inheritance of roughly $700,000 on Scientology courses and training.  He devoted his life to it. 

Deleted overly long post about his struggles in the "church."   He committed suicide in 2010.

Edited August 25, 2017 by bethster2000

[Pondlass1]

What does Scientology have against psychology and medication for various mental troubles?  It's proven both work.  It's like they're stuck in the dark ages... oh, it's just a personality failure. Here's some vitamins.

I have said this before and I'll say it again - it's scary how easily and effectively humans can be brainwashed.  Spread hate and a war begins.

A mother's love and protection is the strongest urge in the world - yet Scientologists have found a way to switch this off.  It's flipping scary.  They should be shut down and their massive resources of property and wealth funneled to support and help all aspects of mental health and addiction.

[EVS]

4 hours ago, bethster2000 said:

I won't, either.  This episode was very hard for me to watch.  My uncle was a Scientologist for most of his adult life.  He spent an entire inheritance of roughly $700,000 on Scientology courses and training.  He devoted his life to it.  He did not work for pay, but did plenty of volunteer work for them.  (He dreamed of being in the Sea Org, apparently, but his terrible seasickness derailed that dream.)

He was plagued by deep suicidal depressions that he attempted to treat the Scientology way: vitamins, auditing, exercise, even some strange sweat-lodge type thing involving massive amounts of Niacin.  Mental illness runs deep in our family.  I myself am bipolar.  He would get into black moods where he would not leave the house for weeks.  The only thing that would motivate to pick himself up was going back to the "church" for more "healing" and "help."

He kept everyone in his family at arm's length.  We always worried about him, but he would never let us in.  We always made sure to let him know about family events, weddings, baptisms, reunions, and the like, and we were always pretty much ignored.  He did attend the funeral of my Dad, who died suddenly.  The entire time he was there, it was like looking at a zombie.  By then, I had my diagnosis and was taking the appropriate meds to stabilize me.  The only time he spoke to me that weekend was to chastise me for taking psych meds, and try to get me to join Scientology.

I didn't.

The last time I spoke to my uncle, it was via email, and despite him very much keeping me at arm's length still, he was using the message to lecture me about how "foolish" I was to go to a psychiatrist and that my problems weren't real.  That my psychiatrist, who quite literally saved my life, was exerting "mind control" over me with the meds, and that he probably really wanted to sleep with me!  Yes, he said that.  I got mad.  I told him that I knew he had very serious problems with depression, and to please rethink his stance about medication.  "It helps so much," I said.

Never heard from him again.

November 10, 2010: family members starting getting calls from my uncle.  He was crying and said he was broke; he was being evicted from his apartment and had nowhere to go.  He couldn't work because he was so sick with depression (and, let's face it, all he had on his resume was Scientology stuff).  He let it slip that he had been living in his car and that was fine with him; could we give him some money so he could return to the "church" to "get better?"  Every one of us turned him down.  Now we wonder about might have happened if we had said yes.

November 12, 2010: my uncle drove to a state park, stopped at a scenic overlook, turned off the car, and shot himself.

He was 52 years old.

Thank you so much for sharing this. 

[Guest]

@bethster2000 I'm so sorry for your loss.  I'm glad you were able to get help, but sorry that your uncle was not.

[3girlsforus]

1 hour ago, Pondlass1 said:

What does Scientology have against psychology and medication for various mental troubles?  It's proven both work.  It's like they're stuck in the dark ages... oh, it's just a personality failure. Here's some vitamins.

I have said this before and I'll say it again - it's scary how easily and effectively humans can be brainwashed.  Spread hate and a war begins.

A mother's love and protection is the strongest urge in the world - yet Scientologists have found a way to switch this off.  It's flipping scary.  They should be shut down and their massive resources of property and wealth funneled to support and help all aspects of mental health and addiction.

It stems from L. Ron Hubbard. He had serious mental issues that psychologists and psychiatrists tried many times to get him to face and treat. But he was such an egomaniac he refused to admit he might have any kind of issue so he declared the entire profession evil. And in Scientology, if L. Ron Hubbard said it - it's true

On 8/23/2017 at 2:25 PM, iMonrey said:

Sadly, shunning a child because they have abandoned their religion is not unique to Scientology. 

This is true but to me somehow Scientology takes it to an extreme. They seem not to care that they are shunning their kids (or parents or whatever). I've heard Amish (who are famous for shunning) discuss why they shun and even though they really believe in it, you can tell it crushes them. Scientologists almost seem to consider it a "badge of honor" or whatever to be a  good enough Scientologist to disconnect. Even if you truly believe you have no choice, if you are in the airport or on the dance floor with your daughter and your grandchildren, you would still sneak a wistful glance or have to step outside to shed a few tears. My impression, not just of Marie's mom but of others still in Scientology and actively shunning family, is that they don't have those feelings. It's the "right" thing to do so they have no regret. 

[funky-rat]

2 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

What does Scientology have against psychology and medication for various mental troubles?  It's proven both work.  It's like they're stuck in the dark ages... oh, it's just a personality failure. Here's some vitamins.

I have said this before and I'll say it again - it's scary how easily and effectively humans can be brainwashed.  Spread hate and a war begins.

My husband's former boss belonged to a somewhat hardcore church (Christian church).  I wouldn't consider it a major denomination, but it is one that is out there - it's not some made-up church, or non-denominational.  They don't believe in psychiatry either.  My husband was having rebounding when he worked for them - when your meds cease to function they can actually make your issues worse.  We didn't know it at the time.  They did not want to let him leave work early to start psychiatry services.  We were on the waiting list for a doctor with evening appointments as he slipped further and further down.  She flat-out told him one day that he had demons in him and he needed Jesus - not a psychiatrist.  She then said she was trained in "Christian Counseling" and she would counsel him for free....at first.  Such a conflict of interest.  He said no.  He had a nervous breakdown 2 weeks later, at work, and they fired him.  I went back in with the minister from our church, who was dumbfounded that people still believed that, and he flat-out asked her why she felt that Jesus didn't work through doctors and through medicine.  She had no valid answer.  She flat-out lied to the face of our minister.  I threatened her with a lawsuit and that got him paid until he got another job 3 weeks later.  A few years later, another employee who needed time off for surgery was fired while he was off, and he sued her big-time...and won.  What goes around comes around.

[Lady Iris]

1 hour ago, funky-rat said:

What goes around comes around.

Lets hope, this church has certainly got it coming!

[2727]

3 hours ago, 3girlsforus said:

Scientologists almost seem to consider it a "badge of honor" or whatever to be a  good enough Scientologist to disconnect.

Yeah. Scientologists not only disconnect, they're gleeful about it, posting spiteful remarks on social media about their former friends and family. The smugness, it burns.

I just want to give all of them a good shaking ... how is it that thousands and thousands of people were some of the "most ethical" beings on the planet when they were part of Scientology, then suddenly embodied all that's evil? Seems to any outsider that it was Scientology that turned them "bad."

[Rlb8031]

4 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

What does Scientology have against psychology and medication for various mental troubles?  It's proven both work.  It's like they're stuck in the dark ages... oh, it's just a personality failure. Here's some vitamins.

I have said this before and I'll say it again - it's scary how easily and effectively humans can be brainwashed.  Spread hate and a war begins.

A mother's love and protection is the strongest urge in the world - yet Scientologists have found a way to switch this off.  It's flipping scary.  They should be shut down and their massive resources of property and wealth funneled to support and help all aspects of mental health and addiction.

When LRH wrote Dianetics, he claimed it was the cure for both medical and mental problems. He sent copies to the AMA and the APA. Both organizations responded with "You crazy?" and went on to publicly call Dianetics a sham. He became anti psychology following that episode. As a raging narcissist, he couldn't stand to be called out on his bullshit.

Edited August 25, 2017 by Rlb8031