S07.E06: Beyond the Wall

[Giselle]

13 hours ago, Popples said:

Tormund, stop reading my fan-fiction! I'm also down with the spin-off being Tormund, Brienne, and the Hound (if they all live). That's just comedy gold.

How the hell could Gendry see that wight-bear's eyes from that far away?

The new "Three's Company"?

 

He has younger eyes?

[ImpinAintEasy]

So in all of this Arya hate people are ignoring that she handed Sansa the dagger, signifying that she trusts her. She implied that she could take Sansa's place but wouldn't. Perhaps her handing the dagger over to Sansa was her way of acknowledging that Sansa may wish to supplant Jon, but in the end she knew she wouldn't?

 

I know most people take Sansa's side in everything, but I am sympathetic to Arya's POV too, given that the two sisters clearly haven't spoken about what they each went through. So with that in mind, Arya would be furious about what a fool Sansa was. Sansa was young in season 1, but she wasn't that young, not when she was months away from becoming a woman by the standards of that society. So I did find it cathartic when Arya went off on Sansa originally. I still felt bad for Sansa too, though her shouting from the rooftops that "I am the Lady of Winterfell!" and "I won the BOTB!" was annoying, given her apology to Jon about withholding the info about the Vale soldiers. She may as well have told Arya "I gambled on Jon's life and the lives of the soldiers fighting for us so I could have the glory!" 

 

One thing is clear, these two need to tell each other about the hardships both have endured. And for gods sake, get on the same page! You are Starks and Winter is here. 

[kdm07]

Jon Snow is still a dumbass.

Tyrion is a terrible hand.

Poor Viserion :(

Arya is kinda like Jon: she doesn't know as much as she thinks she does.

[Daisy]

11 minutes ago, kdm07 said:

Jon Snow is still a dumbass.

Tyrion is a terrible hand.

Poor Viserion :(

Arya is kinda like Jon: she doesn't know as much as she thinks she does.

which is nothin'. 

[Daisy]

1 minute ago, doram said:

The closed captioning states that.

ah. well that explains it lolol

[phoenix780]

2 hours ago, Keepitmoving said:

I don't think it is at all. But I'm proud of my girl Sansa as I was with Arya killing people who needed their asses to be slaughtered. Boy was I proud when she killed House of Frey.  But Sansa is  starting to think way ahead of LittlefuckingFinger, which is why she sent Brienne away.  He's whispering shit in Sansa's ear about using Brienne to intercede yada, yada, yada...Sansa's not falling for it. Like I said before, when all is said and done both young ladies will admire one another for their strengths and take Littlefinger down. But right now, Sansa is more in the know and focused on Littlefinger's bullshit manipulation than Arya is. 

I interpreted Sansa sending Brienne away differently.  I don't think Sansa is thrilled that Brienne is charged with protecting both Stark girls, and with Brienne away there's no chance she can intercede to protect Arya if Sansa has to take her out. Whatever's going on I hope they resolve it relatively soon, or make it more interesting.

[Bryce Lynch]

1 hour ago, Keepitmoving said:

I thought the Night King was the one on the horse with that long hair and not the Olympic Javelin Gold Medalist. I though the Javelin guy was like a Jamie Lanister position, running the King's army.

I am pretty sure the Night King is the one with the horns that look like a crown, i.e., the one who threw the javelin.  The other White Walker was the one we saw first, I think, which might be why you thought he was the NK.  

[The Companion]

12 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Tormund is the best. You gotta love a guy who knows what he wants. If only Brienne would come around so they could have big, beautiful ginger and blonde babies.

I loved that entire conversation. I was really worried it might doom Tormund, though.

 

11 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Or maybe Dany dies in childbirth like Lyanna did, hence the "bittersweet" ending GRRM has alluded to. I agree though they couldn't have been more obvious that a Jonerys baby is on the way. Jorah mentions Jon's "children", Tyrion brings up succession and Dany reminds us she's barren. Real subtle, showrunners, real subtle.

I really hope not, or that the showrunners address it as more than just TADA, she can have babies after all. She was told she would not be able to get pregnant until the sun rises in the west and sets in the east, and that Drago would return then as well. I don't think they should just hand wave it. It would be really obnoxious for her to just suddenly get pregnant without some sort of driving reason (though I suppose that reason could be magic in this world). I would far prefer Jon to become her heir, though it is looking bad for that scenario from the googly eyes they were making at the end of the episode.

As an aside, I really had the word barren. It's probably the appropriate term in the show but it is really hurtful for many who have dealt with infertility. It is probably making it difficult for me to talk about it objectively.

 

7 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

If they truly are fighting with each other, then I don't understand why Sansa seems to have told Jon a lot about what happened to her but she hasn't told Arya. Why not? If I had been separated from my family for that long, I would definitely fill them in once we were reunited. I mean, no, they don't need to go through a list of all the terrible things that happened day by day, but based on their conversation in Arya's room, they have NO idea what the other has been through which is just stupid. Hell, if they're too traumatized to talk about it, then just have Bran the all seeing meet with each one separately. "Arya, Joffrey was a sadistic pig who shot a prostitute just for fun so you're lucky that Sansa's still alive. Unfortunately, Ramse beat and raped her mercilessly for the entire length of their sham marriage. So, you know, maybe back off a little bit there, Arya. Sansa, Arya had to pretend to be a boy just to stay alive. She has almost been killed multiple times so you need to back off your sister a little bit too. Now that we've gotten that over with, do you guys want to know about how Jon killed a little boy? Or about how he was murdered and then brought back to life?"

I agree that I wish they would compare notes. I suspect Sansa still sees Arya as too young to discuss what happened. After all, she was barely able to discuss it with Littlefinger. Arya is her younger sister and some part of her probably still sees a kid when she looks at Arya. It does appear that Arya was opening up to her sister a bit, but she was too angry to really get into the details. I want the two of them to take a step back and try to understand what the other went through. 

3 hours ago, RHJunkie said:

Tyrion is smart but he's always disliked the brutality associated with war. I think he sees it as unnecessary and uncivilized. Tyrion is trying to fight wars without causalities and as honourable as that may be, it's stupid and a good way to get your men killed. If a civilized conversation over a cup of tea is all that was needed to broker peace, then your opposition is unlikely to be considered your 'enemy' in the first place. In the back of my mind I'm also considering that he may be double agent but I'm leaning towards 'not' right now.

 

I think Tyrion provides a necessary perspective, even if it is sometimes unrealistic. We have seen that conquerors do not necessarily make great kings. Part of that is seeing the other side as the enemy, which is a necessary perspective when fighting a war, but a problematic one when ruling. Tyrion defaults to diplomatic means. I think his point with the Tarleys is that it might have been possible to get them on her side, or at least continue the family line with the hopes of creating mortal enemies out of the survivors. I don't think he is a double agent, but I do think he is trying to avoid being like his siblings. Cersei rules with fear, but she can only remain in power so long as she has people to protect her because everyone is hoping she chokes on her wine. 

Daenerys was probably spot on when she pointed out that he is so focused on the future, he is missing the obvious issues in front of them. However, I think she is being short sighted as well. I don't blame Tyrion for being concerned that she is promising to build a world that she cannot possibly create in her lifetime, with no plan as to how to sustain it. 

[proserpina65]

14 hours ago, Advance35 said:

Sigh, again if this show had started off with an emphasis on Dragons and Zombies I definitely would NOT have watched but now I'm stuck.

It did start with zombies.

[Keepitmoving]

30 minutes ago, phoenix780 said:

I interpreted Sansa sending Brienne away differently.  I don't think Sansa is thrilled that Brienne is charged with protecting both Stark girls, and with Brienne away there's no chance she can intercede to protect Arya if Sansa has to take her out. Whatever's going on I hope they resolve it relatively soon, or make it more interesting.

Yeah, I agree, except for the fact that I do think Sansa most definitely appreciates Brienne overall. She's just tired in general of people treating her like she's some girl who hasn't been through a ton of shit that would have broken most. I'm glad she brought up the fact that they would have lost the battle for Winterfeld if it wasn't for her calling in the Vale.

I just don't think she would have been so persistent to send her away if LF didn't start evoking Brienne's name. As in whatever he has in mind that includes Brienne, I want her out of the way so he can't use her as any tool interference with me and Arya because Littlefinger clearly plans to us her against me.

Or, maybe that is what Littlefinger wants, for Brienne to be sent away, which still has me thinking that Sansa is two steps ahead of him in doing exactly what he wants. What better way to lead him on into his comfort zone than to make him think his plan is working and that little naive  Sansa can still be manipulated by him.

Edited August 21, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[ElectricBoogaloo]

1 hour ago, Tyro49 said:

Did Jon just ask Dany to marry him?

No, he was taking Tormund's advice not to be like Mance who refused to bend the knee and got many of his people killed as a result. Jon was finally conceding to her request to bend the knee which is why he called her "my queen."

[Daisy]

6 minutes ago, The Companion said:

I really hope not, or that the showrunners address it as more than just TADA, she can have babies after all. She was told she would not be able to get pregnant until the sun rises in the west and sets in the east, and that Drago would return then as well. I don't think they should just hand wave it. It would be really obnoxious for her to just suddenly get pregnant without some sort of driving reason (though I suppose that reason could be magic in this world). I would far prefer Jon to become her heir, though it is looking bad for that scenario from the googly eyes they were making at the end of the episode.

As an aside, I really had the word barren. It's probably the appropriate term in the show but it is really hurtful for many who have dealt with infertility. It is probably making it difficult for me to talk about it objectively.

Daenerys was probably spot on when she pointed out that he is so focused on the future, he is missing the obvious issues in front of them. However, I think she is being short sighted as well. I don't blame Tyrion for being concerned that she is promising to build a world that she cannot possibly create in her lifetime, with no plan as to how to sustain it. 

 

I always thought that was when Drogo would come back to Dany. I never thought that Dany was incapable of getting pregnant. I asked this in another board, like when did Dany find out from some form of Maester (which wouldn't be in Essos i suppose), or Healer that she actually couldn't have babies other than that Woman being all. blah blah i won. #teambloodmagic. 

[The Companion]

18 minutes ago, Daisy said:

 

I always thought that was when Drogo would come back to Dany. I never thought that Dany was incapable of getting pregnant. I asked this in another board, like when did Dany find out from some form of Maester (which wouldn't be in Essos i suppose), or Healer that she actually couldn't have babies other than that Woman being all. blah blah i won. #teambloodmagic. 

For some reason, I thought it applied to both, but I am too paranoid about spoilers to really google it, so I may just be misremembering what the witch said because Daenarys started saying she was infertile at the same time. Either way, it has been established for so long by Daenarys and she has taken other lovers, so I would really like to see more than just: "Oh, it turns out I can have kids after all."

ETA, I remembered why I thought they were related. Daenerys tied the two together when she was speaking with Khal Moro last season. She said: "I will not lie with you. And I will bear no children for you, or anyone else. Not until the sun rises in the west and sets in the east." I suppose that could mean that she doesn't intend to have children unless she gets Khal Drogo back, or she could be wrong, but I knew I remembered something about the two being tied to one another.

Edited August 21, 2017 by The Companion

[proserpina65]

12 hours ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

Maybe if someone actually consulted him, he could be more helpful. I don't understand it, really. He's one of their best assets and no one bothers to ask him about the future? Or about the past? What was the point of schlepping him around all that time?

I don't think he can see the future, but still, asking him something once in awhile might be useful.

[TVbitch]

I'm not hatin' but this episode was like a mash up of a Bruce Willis "ragtag team of outcasts blows up an asteroid" movie, a John Gray men's retreat, and an episode of General Hospital!

[Daisy]

21 minutes ago, The Companion said:

For some reason, I thought it applied to both, but I am too paranoid about spoilers to really google it, so I may just be misremembering what the witch said because Daenarys started saying she was infertile at the same time. Either way, it has been established for so long by Daenarys and she has taken other lovers, so I would really like to see more than just: "Oh, it turns out I can have kids after all."

ETA, I remembered why I thought they were related. Daenerys tied the two together when she was speaking with Khal Moro last season. She said: "I will not lie with you. And I will bear no children for you, or anyone else. Not until the sun rises in the west and sets in the east." I suppose that could mean that she doesn't intend to have children unless she gets Khal Drogo back, or she could be wrong, but I knew I remembered something about the two being tied to one another.

 

I hear you. I might ask "Emergency Awesome" from YT he's really good about 'not' spoiling people. 
It wouldn't be the first time i missed something but i always thought she felt that the Dragons were her children w/Drogo (in a sense - he's lost to her - but he provides something in his loss).  for me the whole "I can't have children" never hit me with the idea that she is not capable, just that she can't. (maybe afraid, scared etc, her vow to Drogo). She has had lovers but did she "love" Daario? or the Qarth guy (did she sleep with him).   I swear the show needs to clear this one up for me. 

but i get your ETA too. like she's 'refusing' to have children. meaning she's probably doing some potion stuff to prevent her. etc. so she could have Jon Babies. 

[The Companion]

1 minute ago, Daisy said:

 

I hear you. I might ask "Emergency Awesome" from YT he's really good about 'not' spoiling people. 
It wouldn't be the first time i missed something but i always thought she felt that the Dragons were her children w/Drogo (in a sense - he's lost to her - but he provides something in his loss).  for me the whole "I can't have children" never hit me with the idea that she is not capable, just that she can't. (maybe afraid, scared etc, her vow to Drogo). She has had lovers but did she "love" Daario? or the Qarth guy (did she sleep with him).   I swear the show needs to clear this one up for me. 

but i get your ETA too. like she's 'refusing' to have children. meaning she's probably doing some potion stuff to prevent her. etc. so she could have Jon Babies. 

I could buy that, and I would be okay if the explanation was that she has been taking some sort of Westeros birth control potion (milk of the estrogen?). I just want an explanation. I definitely don't think she has loved anyone since Drogo. Certainly not Daario, for whom she never seemed to have much affection  and who she didn't mind dropping as soon as it was going to be inconvenient. 

[ChipBach]

I must have interpreted this episode differently than most...

I felt that Dany has been feeling more of a familial connection to Jon.   I thought her expressions have conveyed a confusion about Jon starting with his petting the dragon.  I think she suspects he is family, not a romantic prospect.

Same with Arya.  All those training sessions in the house of B/W on how to sell a lie, etc., I think she is on to Littlefinger and has the ability to out maneuver him in his own game.  I believe she has to play out the desired reaction to the raven's letter or LF will get suspicious.  She probably can not trust to fill Sansa in at this point.

I agree that the expedition was a little silly since they could have flown Jaime over on a dragon to see the white walkers and report back to Cersie with no fuss, no muss.  

Totally enjoyed the episode tho...

[Daisy]

2 minutes ago, The Companion said:

I could buy that, and I would be okay if the explanation was that she has been taking some sort of Westeros birth control potion (milk of the estrogen?). I just want an explanation. I definitely don't think she has loved anyone since Drogo. Certainly not Daario, for whom she never seemed to have much affection  and who she didn't mind dropping as soon as it was going to be inconvenient. 

I think Cersei mentioned there was something that prevented her getting pregnant from Robert after the "black haired beauty". 
I want them to say something because like you i don't want it to be "The power of Jon's penis healed Dany's uterus" or anything like that. 

 

 

1 minute ago, ChipBach said:

I must have interpreted this episode differently than most...

I felt that Dany has been feeling more of a familial connection to Jon.   I thought her expressions have conveyed a confusion about Jon starting with his petting the dragon.  I think she suspects he is family, not a romantic prospect.

Same with Arya.  All those training sessions in the house of B/W on how to sell a lie, etc., I think she is on to Littlefinger and has the ability to out maneuver him in his own game.  I believe she has to play out the desired reaction to the raven's letter or LF will get suspicious.  She probably can not trust to fill Sansa in at this point.

I agree that the expedition was a little silly since they could have flown Jaime over on a dragon to see the white walkers and report back to Cersie with no fuss, no muss.  

Totally enjoyed the episode tho...

That could also be true it could be seen either way

[ShannaB]

16 hours ago, CaptainTightpants said:

Tormund pretty much owned this episode! I devoutly hope that one of the rumored spin-off shows is; Beautiful Ginger:The wit and wisdom of Tormund Giantsbane. I would watch the shit out of that! Especially if the Hound is his sidekick. (:

Oh yes please!!

16 hours ago, DollEyes said:

Zombie humans & dragons & bears, oh my!

LOL

16 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

One thing I had thought when they came up with that harebrained scheme to bring back a wight was why didn't they just execute some poor bastard just outside the wall and wait for him to turn?

Excellent idea but Jon would never allow it.

16 hours ago, SimoneS said:

 

Questions about this ridiculously needless adventure. Why didn’t Dany just fly north with her dragons to see the NK and his army? How did Gentry find his way back to Eastwatch without getting lost? How did they survive on the rock all night without freezing to death?  Where did Benjen come from? How did that horse not freeze to death?

 

So many questions and so many contrivances but I guess we are speeding to the end and we just have to grumble and take it.  Sigh.  I especially can't stand watching a film or show set in frigid temperatures and the actors  are running without hats and gloves, coats or clothes sometimes.  Gah!  Give me a break!  Someone better be suffering from a little frostbite next ep.

16 hours ago, Popples said:

Where did the White Walkers get such huge chains? They are prepared for any eventuality it seems.

I can't even imagine.  The best I come up with is that the chains were left over from making the wall....and they didn't get rusty after 8 thousand years.

I found the wight that the group caught to be very interesting because it didn't shatter with the rest when Jon killed the WW.  Why?  And why were the other wights trying so hard to release it?  I tend to think the WW that was killed was not that wight's maker and that the NK did not want that wight making it past the Wall for viewing until he is ready to start his march South.

I don't know if anyone else mentioned this but the 'Arrow' mountain was first seen in the background when the Children of the Forest made the NK.  The landscape was lush, green and beautiful back then

"Faster than a speeding bullet".......the raven from Eastwatch to Dragonstone!!.

Edited August 21, 2017 by ShannaB
grammar

[Keepitmoving]

Quote

Where did Benjen come from? How did that horse not freeze to death?

Well, this isn't the first time that uncle Benjen has come out of nowhere. I recall him coming out of nowhere to save Bran and I forgot the name of that girl who tugged, pushed, dragged you name it, him around for I don't know how long, but it was a long ass time. Only to get pretty much a fuck you goodbye from Bran because I think he said, he's not Bran anymore, so he can't really remember all she did for him.  Or was it he can remember but can't feel much of what Bran would have felt since he's not Bran anymore. Who the hell knows, that was messed up though. Yeah, but Benjen has been living beyond that wall for some time. He headed out there I think it was season one after he left Winterfeld. I recall him visiting, talking to Jon I think about the Knights Watch then leaving saying he there were still battles to be fought out there. 

Edited August 21, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[Haiti D]

I hope next episode we get a glimpse of Yara Greyjoy.  

 

And wouldn't it be nice if Dany petitioned for her allies' release although I doubt that will happen.

[MV713]

22 minutes ago, Keepitmoving said:

Well, this isn't the first time that uncle Benjen has come out of nowhere. I recall him coming out of nowhere to save Bran and I forgot the name of that girl who tugged, pushed, dragged you name it, him around for I don't know how long, but it was a long ass time. Only to get pretty much a fuck you goodbye from Bran because I think he said, he's not Bran anymore, so he can't really remember all she did for him.  Or was it he can remember but can't feel much of what Bran would have felt since he's not Bran anymore. Who the hell knows, that was messed up though. Yeah, but Benjen has been living beyond that wall for some time. He headed out there I think it was season one after he left Winterfeld. I recall him visiting, talking to Jon I think about the Knights Watch then leaving saying he there were still battles to be fought out there. 

As I understand it Benjen is part human part wight?  Sort of half undead.

[ImpinAintEasy]

So, the Night King has to be a green seer like the 3ER and Bran, right? He was able to see and interact with Bran in the visions. It would make things so much easier to understand if we knew he was using Jon and company as bait, holding off the wights until the dragons came, precisely because he knew they would be coming! 

 

Speaking of Bran, why not involve him in the mission? Wouldn't it have been easier to deal with the giant time jump if it was Bran who saw what was happening and found a way to warn Dany quicker? There are so many ways in which they could have mitigated the giant leaps in logic. They can do better. 

[TaurusRose]

4 hours ago, ImpinAintEasy said:

 

Well, there are no little Daarios running around. And if she thought she was barren, I doubt she'd have taken whatever precautions to prevent a pregnancy. 

Whose to say he wasn't shooting blanks?  Why do we always assume it's the woman at fault?  

[Dobian]

A whole group of the best dudes in GoT all trudging through the snow together and exchanging stories and quips, they could have made the whole episode just that and I would have watched.

Ayra, you wonderful little psychopath.  Sansa, you are still the snooty-sounding drip from season 1.

Tormund wanting to raise gigantic babies with Brienne, lolol.

So Jon and the gang stood on that little island in the freezing cold with no shelter or wood to make fire for what, about a week until the dragons arrived?  eeeeokay.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! (but I loved Dany's reaction shot, it was gut-wrenching)

Edited August 21, 2017 by Dobian

[ImpinAintEasy]

20 minutes ago, taurusrose said:

Whose to say he wasn't shooting blanks?  Why do we always assume it's the woman at fault?  

 

Fair point. I wasn't saying the woman was at fault, unless that woman is Mirri Maz Duur. In which case, yes, she is at fault.

[Couver]

1 hour ago, Haiti D said:

I hope next episode we get a glimpse of Yara Greyjoy.  

 

And wouldn't it be nice if Dany petitioned for her allies' release although I doubt that will happen.

This is a great point that I would love to see touched on (but I don't think it will be). Dany decimated Cersei's army and as Cersei noted should be making Cersei surrender instead of proposing this armistice. But Dany has more than enough leverage to say hey let Ellaria and Yara go or maybe I'll burn something else of yours again. 

Of course Tyrion and Varys are so bad for intel this season that Dany probably doesn't know Yara and Ellaria are alive. 

[TaurusRose]

3 hours ago, kdm07 said:

Jon Snow is still a dumbass.

Tyrion is a terrible hand.

Poor Viserion :(

Arya is kinda like Jon: she doesn't know as much as she thinks she does.

Tired of this narrative. What makes him a dumbass exactly?  He didn't come up with the plan to bring back a wight, that was Tyrion. Jorah offered to go, but Davos pointed out the wildlings would never follow him. At that point Jon offered to go along for two very good reasons: he had the relationship and trust of the wildlings and he knew what they were up against. The plan was risky and doomed to failure to begin with, but Jon's presence gave them at least a fighting chance.  When they found themselves terribly outnumbered and likely not to survive this mission, was he supposed to just lay down and die, or did it make more sense to make a desperate attempt to survive by reaching out to the only person who could step in and get them out? And finally, how is keeping the swarm of wights from overtaking his team as they climbed on Drogon's back the act of a dumbass? Jon was not the cause of Viserion's death and as soon as he saw the Night King taking aim at Drogon, he sacrificed his escape for theirs. Jon is singleminded in his efforts to protect his people. He is brave and humble. Jon has earned the respect of everyone who follows him. This is not directed at you personally, but the Jon "is a dumbass" argument is a lazy cop out. I need that position explained and defended, not just tossed out as a matter of fact because to me it's the equivalent of lemmings jumping over a cliff, i.e. lazy fan group think.

2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

No, he was taking Tormund's advice not to be like Mance who refused to bend the knee and got many of his people killed as a result. Jon was finally conceding to her request to bend the knee which is why he called her "my queen."

After she proved herself worthy of his respect and fealty by putting herself and her dragons at risk by coming to the rescue, and by giving her word to fight the NK and his armies with Jon.

[Lady S.]

2 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

I don't think he can see the future, but still, asking him something once in awhile might be useful.

Jojen foresaw his own death, and Bran should be more powerful than he was. I think he also saw footage of the sept explosion before it happened in his visions last year. The bit with the wildfire being poured would have been from the Mad King's time, but the shots of it exploding look to be from 6.10. The issue is he's not omnipotent. He told Sansa the info came in bits and flashes and made it sound like he still couldn't really control it. I took his lines to Arya about thinking she'd go to King's Landing to mean he didn't know her choice for sure until she got home. His sending the Winterfell ravens as his spies beyond the Wall last ep re-enforces that he can't just know immediately what's going on anywhere.

 

1 hour ago, ShannaB said:

I found the wight that the group caught to be very interesting because it didn't shatter with the rest when Jon killed the WW.  Why?  And why were the other wights trying so hard to release it?  I tend to think the WW that was killed was not that wight's maker and that the NK did not want that wight making it past the Wall for viewing until he is ready to start his march South.

Yeah, that was my thinking. That wight couldn't have been sired by that WW. Lucky for the Night King that the captured wight was around to sound the alarm for his fellows.

[LuciaMia]

Quote

Or simpler - Dany was never barren in the first place. All we had was Mirri's insinuation that she was. 

Its not as if Dany had consulted a fertility specialist.  

Not much more to add. Except that Im finding it hard to  imagine the final episode.  Unless its two hours long or more I don't see how they're going to wrap up all these twisted story lines.

Yup, they were beating hard on the whole childless-the dragons are  my children-Danys succession or lack of-.  Dany and Jon having a child together, maybe becoming co-rulers of Westeros?

Was put off too by Aryas attacks on Sansa. A lot of people here are suggesting that there might be some subtle plan going on, but right now she comes off as a self-righteous little bitch.

Truly hope that a dragon doesn't act like the rest of the resurrected dead.  Really, really hope we don't have a showdown with it and the two remaining dragons.

[Bryce Lynch]

1 minute ago, Couver said:

This is a great point that I would love to see touched on (but I don't think it will be). Dany decimated Cersei's army and as Cersei noted should be making Cersei surrender instead of proposing this armistice. But Dany has more than enough leverage to say hey let Ellaria and Yara go or maybe I'll burn something else of yours again. 

Of course Tyrion and Varys are so bad for intel this season that Dany probably doesn't know Yara and Ellaria are alive. 

I think Cersei would be much more willing to release Yara than Ellaria:

a) Yara didn't kill her daughter.

b) I don't think Cersei would ever get a good night's sleep again knowing that Ellaria is free.  There is a 0% chance Ellaria would not seek revenge on her, after Cersei made her watch her die of poisoning and her corpse rot across from her in the dungeon for however many months it has been.  

Dany would be wise to ask for Ellaria first, and then "settle" for Yara.  

[paigow]

Maybe the sun rising in the west is Jon Snow 2.0 - Reanimated. That will break the bloodmagic curse...

[TaurusRose]

4 minutes ago, paigow said:

Maybe the sun rising in the west is Jon Snow 2.0 - Reanimated. That will break the bloodmagic curse...

What?  What proof is there that Jon died a second time or are you suggesting something in the future?  There was no speculation about Jaime having died in a similar situation, so I'm confused by this rush to pronounce Jon reanimated.  

[The Companion]

1 hour ago, doram said:

No, she wasn't. She was told that Drogo would not return until she got pregnant and the sun rises in the east etc.

Thanks for the clarification. As I said (though it was edited so you may not have seen it), I was thinking about what she said to Khal Moro, which was: "I will not lie with you. And I will bear no children for you, or anyone else. Not until the sun rises in the west and sets in the east." If nothing else, the statements she has made have been fairly ambiguous. Sometimes it seems like she is saying she refuses to bear children, while other times it sounds like she is saying she is unable to get pregnant. I would just be disappointed if no real explanation was ever given.

[Lady S.]

22 minutes ago, taurusrose said:

What?  What proof is there that Jon died a second time or are you suggesting something in the future?  There was no speculation about Jaime having died in a similar situation, so I'm confused by this rush to pronounce Jon reanimated.  

I assume he meant Jon 1.0 was pre-Caesaring and Jon 2.0 is post-Mel. There was plenty of freaking out about the golden woobie at the end of ep 4 though. Although I think Arya's surviving several gut wounds and a chase thanks to a nap and some soup should have disproven the lie that anyone can die at any time. The fact that 5 main characters went on this seriously risky mission and the only human casualties were nameless redshirts and an expendable supporting character who has to predecease his partner further proves that most of the main characters who have survived this long have some good plot armor.

[marcee]

She asked the 'healer' when Drogo would be back to normal, and the 'healer' responded, "When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east, when the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves, when your womb quickens again and you bear a living child, then he will return, and not before." It was supposed to sound like "never" - but perhaps it was a prophecy... and, if so, does that mean Khal Drogo will be back? Doesn't seem likely. Or perhaps it was just the 'healer's' assumption - that Dany was now barren, not a prophecy or a curse, but just a nasty response from an angry woman.

Count me among those of us who believes the undead dragon will spray ice instead of fire. Should prove an interesting battle, at the very least.

 

ETA: Also, what doram said.

Edited August 21, 2017 by marcee

[Clanstarling]

19 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Also not sure how Gendry Forrest Gump'd it back to the Wall when he had no idea where the hell he was or how to get there, but minor details, I know.

He just went back the way they came. Faster.

9 hours ago, TaraS1 said:

Did I mishear or did someone ask Jon about killing the Night King in order to destroy all the wights he had turned, and Jon said, "That's not how it works"?  I could've sworn I heard that.

I don't think Jon said that - but for the life of me, I can't remember what he said.  Maybe that there was no way to get to him? Someone (was it the Hound?) made the observation - which seemed pretty valid.

6 hours ago, Giselle said:

But is the NK a Targaryian? I thought that only they could be dragon riders? Others can be passengers but the "jockey" has to be aTargaryian.

I dunno, he turned Viserion into the undead, I think that may trump the Targaryian requirement. The NK is, essentially, his (her?) maker now.

6 hours ago, ImpinAintEasy said:

So in all of this Arya hate people are ignoring that she handed Sansa the dagger, signifying that she trusts her. She implied that she could take Sansa's place but wouldn't. Perhaps her handing the dagger over to Sansa was her way of acknowledging that Sansa may wish to supplant Jon, but in the end she knew she wouldn't?

Thank You! Now, I don't know what to think about Arya in that scene, but handing over the dagger was something I didn't expect. This is the dagger that was meant to kill Bran, and as we know, it was Littlefinger's dagger. Maybe she's handing it to her because Sansa can get closer to Littlefinger to kill him. It might be a hint that they are indeed playing to the walls (listeners) to set Littlefinger up while he thinks he's setting them up. I hope so, anyway.

When Sansa said something along the lines of how she'd survived something Arya couldn't, I was taken aback for a second. But then I thought it's true - Arya wouldn't have survived Sansa's experiences, just as Sansa wouldn't have survived Arya's. Their different natures are what helped them survive what they individually endured. Together, they are a hell of a force, if they can get together. I don't hate either of them, though Arya did give me chills in this scene. 

It was interesting, however, to see that she carries faces in her satchel. There was Frey - and did anyone recognize the other one?

Edited August 21, 2017 by Clanstarling

[Keepitmoving]

Quote

So in all of this Arya hate people are ignoring that she handed Sansa the dagger, signifying that she trusts her. She implied that she could take Sansa's place but wouldn't. 

It wasn't lost on me, but then I'm someone who supports both sisters. I want Sansa to be Queen of the North, I think I've wanted that and saw that as a possibility when she got that Vale to ride in for the rescue.  I got that feeling when she was telling Jon off before the Battle of the Bastards about not consulting her with all his plans as if she hadn't more knowledge than him about how Ramsey's mind works. So I've been rooting for her to rule for some time and been cheering Arya on with her list. I have not been worried that Arya had turned into a mad murderer just for kicks. She was killing people who damn well deserved to be killed. If she were that mad and sick she would have killed those Lanister guards even after they were kind enough to share their food and drink with her. I hope she still gets to poison, and slit the shit out of Cersei's throat. Ah, the Stark sisters will be fine in the end IMO and finally truly understand one another. 

Edited August 21, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[paigow]

Beric pointed at the Night King and said killing him would solve their problems...while realizing it was impossible

[taanja]

A girl is a gangsta. And crazy as shit. I like it. 

Oh yeah! I was one the literal edge of my seat-- Hound? Puppy? Don't die! Live! Live for me! <3

That was cool when the dragon got ice-sworded. Dude! Bleeding fire! Nice.

Jon and Dany! Dany and Jon!

[kieyra]

Briefly (just saw the episode), why did they tell Gendry to run one way and then they ran another? They had their captive wight, weren't they all headed to Eastwatch anyway? 

Or am I confused about which direction they were running? At any rate they encountered the frozen lake and Gendry didn't.

I know I'm not supposed to care about the teleportation anymore, but Gendry's 20 minute run back to the Wall, followed by Jon teleporting from the Wall to a ship in the middle of the ocean while his clothes are still frozen onto him ... it all bugs, I can't help it. 

Sorry for nitpicking. The episode was also hugely stressful, so I'll give the showrunners that much credit. I don't know how I'm going to make it through to the end. Being annoyed by teleportation is a welcome respite.

[BitterApple]

1 hour ago, marcee said:

She asked the 'healer' when Drogo would be back to normal, and the 'healer' responded, "When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east, when the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves, when your womb quickens again and you bear a living child, then he will return, and not before." It was supposed to sound like "never" - but perhaps it was a prophecy... and, if so, does that mean Khal Drogo will be back?

If what the woman said is true and not just blowing smoke, it sounds like Dany will die in childbirth. I'm interpreting Dany being with Drogo again as them reuniting in the afterlife. If his return coincides with her bearing a child, that makes the most sense to me.

[enoughcats]

10 hours ago, dangwoodchucks said:

During Arya's story about Ned applauding her archery efforts I could see Sean Bean as Ned proudly watching his determined little girl and smiling as she achieved her goal. I teared up a little. 

I was hoping for a few bars of 'o'er the hill and far away"  just because.

[enoughcats]

9 hours ago, BitterApple said:

9 hours ago, Popples said:

I know the Night King is evil, but damn, having to play for the Jets would be the cruelest form of punishment imaginable. 

Could he have played for Notre Dame?

[Keepitmoving]

Quote

She asked the 'healer' when Drogo would be back to normal, and the 'healer' responded, "When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east, when the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves, when your womb quickens again and you bear a living child, then he will return, and not before." It was supposed to sound like "never" - but perhaps it was a prophecy... and, if so, does that mean Khal Drogo will be back?

I'm thinking she'll see him just as her soul passes on over into the next life cause I think she'll be dying in child birth. I don't believe she nor Cersei will survive. Her kid will survive, with Stark/Targaryen blood lines, just like Jon. They had what's his name telling Jon about keeping that sword and passing it on to his children, then the constant talk by Tyrion about worrying for the future and who to leave the throne to after she's gone, cause I think she will be gone before this series is over. 

Edited August 22, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[paigow]

14 minutes ago, enoughcats said:

Could he have played for Notre Dame?

His real name is Rudy?

[Casually Observant]

13 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

The saddest moment for me in this episode was seeing Viserion go down. I was already screaming, "NOOOOOOOOO!" when I saw the Night King pick up his icicle javelin. The second saddest moment was when I saw that they were pulling Viserion out of the water. DAMN IT!!!

I also knew immediately when the NK looked at the dragon and then turned to grab his spear what was about to happen.  I too, shouted "NOOO!" and had to stop the DVR and literally run into another room and lay down with my hands on my face.  I am a very big animal lover and cannot take this stress.  It was a good 15 minutes before I could go back and watch the rest.  So sad, so awful.  Aaagh.

11 hours ago, RHJunkie said:

Tyrion is smart but he's always disliked the brutality associated with war.  I'm also considering that he may be double agent but I'm leaning towards 'not' right now.

I'm hoping this stuff between Arya and Sansa is just a ruse to trick Littlefinger. This guy has managed to be two steps ahead of everyone and I'd like to see someone smart enough to figure him out and beat him at his own game.

Tyrion is very smart and works with a methodical, intelligent and diplomatic thought process. I think that he forgets that Cersei is insane and does not follow normal protocol and has no moral compass and that is why she is outthinking him.  In addition, we have Euron who is also mentally bent and so again, Tyrion being a normal person is unable to foretell what crazy behavior might manifest, although he is trying.

I do not, DO NOT believe he is a double agent.  In fact, when Dany was going to mount her dragon and leave to save Jon, he implored her to stay, saying that she was too important and the world needed her.  I think he feels exactly that way about her.

Re Arya: I think Arya is consumed with anger and hate for those who betrayed her family and dedicated to avenge their deaths. She is deeply suspicious that her older sister may have been complicit in her father's death.  Until she gets over that impression, she will continue to be mistrusting.  I do not think they are putting on an act for Littlefinger just yet.

9 hours ago, Giselle said:

I haven't was the books but my thoughts are...

So after becoming an ice dragon who will ride Viserion? A zombified Targaryian? Does he need a rider? 

Well, it would make sense that the NK will come flying in on the ice dragon. He controls all the dead, right? So, of course he will.  

9 hours ago, ImpinAintEasy said:

So in all of this Arya hate people are ignoring that she handed Sansa the dagger, signifying that she trusts her. She implied that she could take Sansa's place but wouldn't. Perhaps her handing the dagger over to Sansa was her way of acknowledging that Sansa may wish to supplant Jon, but in the end she knew she wouldn't?

Or, she was handing her the knife to say, why don't you take off your face for me??

[scrb]

But the zombie bear seemed to be kind of a free agent, not really running with the NK.

It seems the wights can also run on automatic, that is they see someone living and just charge them in a straight line.

So even if the zombie dragon isn't controlled, it can just attack anything living.

But of course the speculation is that it will be used to help the NK army get through or around the Wall some way.

[Bcharmer]

10 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Regarding Beric, he can't die. That man's voice is like a hot knife through butter. 

I thought the same about Lord Bolton. He was a POS, but that voice.... <swoon>