S13.E11: Week 10: The Final Rose / S13.E12: After the Final Rose

[dleighg]

12 minutes ago, LilJen said:

Not really important, but chiropractors DO have a doctoral degree. D.C. (not District of Columbia, Doctor of Chiropractic).

interesting. There's actually more education there than I thought. (I do have a PhD myself, in Engineering, it took 7 years beyond the B.S.). I still maintain my personal opinion that it's a lot of hooey.

Chiropractors must earn a Doctor of Chiropractic (D.C.) degree and a state license. Doctor of Chiropractic programs typically take 4 years to complete and require at least 3 years of undergraduate college education for admission. (https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/mobile/chiropractors.htm)

[nlkm9]

2 hours ago, comosedice said:

Should he have been bowing to Bryan because he has a Masters degree? The image is hilarious and ridiculous.  I believe Peter didn't like Bryan the man and it had nothing to do with his education. If you haven't noticed, many people do not like Bryan and a few of us have PhDs. His 2-year Masters degree in Chiropractic doesn't make him special. Lol.

I honestly did not know you could be a chiropractor with a masters degree? I thought it was a dr of chiro degree??

[JudyObscure]

2 hours ago, comosedice said:

Should he [Peter] have been bowing to Bryan because he has a Masters degree? The image is hilarious and ridiculous.  I believe Peter didn't like Bryan the man and it had nothing to do with his education. If you haven't noticed, many people do not like Bryan and a few of us have PhDs. His 2-year Masters degree in Chiropractic doesn't make him special. Lol.

No Peter shouldn't be "bowing" to Bryan because he has a masters degree, and yes that would be a funny image if I had said anything at all to imply it.  I was referring to Peter telling Rachel, in so many words, that if she married Bryan she would "have a mediocre life,"  as though marriage to the amazing Peter, personal trainer, meant a life of private jets and vacation homes on the Riviera, while life with Bryan would be living a marginal life of near poverty.  Or do you think Bryan should be bowing to Peter because the many people think he's better looking?

[Madding crowd]

 But his meaning was related to Rachel's comments that she cared for Peter but would need to pick someone else because she needs to be married. Settling for someone you don't love is mediocre. Bryan actually made a similar comment saying Rachel wouldn't be happy if she didn't pick him. It had nothing to do with Bryan's occupation.

[truthaboutluv]

YMMV, I am not going to put down either guy's profession or education level but I will say that I have frankly found it a little absurd how much shade Bryan got all season for his profession. This is a show that sees 90 percent of waiter/waitress, personal trainers, etc. and this guy was getting dragged for having a legitimate career. Yes, it is a legitimate career in my opinion. One that he went to school for, trained for and got certified and licensed by accredited state boards for and has been practicing for almost a decade.

The whole thing was just silly, in my opinion.  Fine that people hated how Bryan kissed, found him smarmy, thought he had cheek implants but ragging on his job was just a reach in my opinion. I get that some have their feelings about chiropractors or whatever, much like some see personal injury lawyers as ambulance chasers. But it doesn't negate, in my opinion, that these are real careers. And so for Bryan to have been borderline mocked all season like his career was something lesser than was plain ridiculous as far I'm concerned. And for the record, my best friend who didn't watch the season but had scoliosis is very offended by the hate for chiropractors since she credits hers for aligning her spine and loves him dearly. 

Edited August 8, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[JenE4]

^Completely agree, Truthaboutluv! We've had pantsoprenuers, dog lovers, and chicken enthusiasts for Christ's sake!

[lightbeam]

Well, I really like Rachel and wanted her to get her fairytale ending. Watching the breakup with Peter was just awful and, as a woman, my heart truly broke for her. It was just devastating. It may be editing, but it did seem that Rachel's first choice was Peter. 

I have a lot of sympathy for her - other than maybe Des, no other bachelorette had to fight to get a proposal from someone she loves. People made fun of it, but she tried to give him and 'out' in a redefinition of a tv engagement, but he was adamant.  It was embarrassing and painful, and I completely understand if she has any anger towards him, although to me, what was said on AFTR was pretty tame. I'm saddened by how angry people seem to be at her. Of course, she has to save face. It's a tv show.

I truly hope that Bryan is the right choice, that the love he expresses is genuine, and that he loves her in the way she deserves.  That is all.

If Peter becomes the next bachelor, I don't think I can watch his season. He would be completely and utterly full of shit to me. If he quietly walks away from this franchise I will respect him more.

[Kira53]

22 hours ago, twoods said:

It is unfair that you're watching all these emotions on TV for the first time, reliving the moment, and then having to go out in front of a bunch of strangers and talk about what happened. How gut wrenching. Even if you're on the show for the wrong reasons, there have to be real feelings involved somewhere in the 6 weeks. And now that Bryan is getting skewered on social media for being in love, this show should be a public service announcement for why reality TV is never a good idea. All the Peter love fest definitely puts him as a shoe-in for the next bachelor- he can lead every single girl on, not propose to anyone, and still come out looking like the "best guy ever" to some of these people. 

Why so "Bitter Betty"?   Didn't Rachel "lead on" Dean by saying "I love you" and then cutting him?   Didn't Rachel "lead on" Eric, " I love you,"  no rose for you buddy. Didn't Rachel "lead on" Matt and Adam that they might just get their one on one date? And possibly go home with Rachel.   it's it's the show.  That's why they call the "Lead"the "Lead"; the lead leads everyone on, including the audience.

Edited August 9, 2017 by Kira53
Spelling

[JudyObscure]

11 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

YMMV, I am not going to put down either guy's profession or education level but I will say that I have frankly found it a little absurd how much shade Bryan got all season for his profession. This is a show that sees 90 percent of waiter/waitress, personal trainers, etc. and this guy was getting dragged for having a legitimate career. Yes, it is a legitimate career in my opinion. One that he went to school for, trained for and got certified and licensed by accredited state boards for and has been practicing for almost a decade.

Exactly.  That's what I was talking about when I dissed Peter for suggesting life with Bryan would be mediocre.  I don't think he was talking about just settling for anyone,  because he had to be very aware that if it wasn't him it would be Bryan.  I never disliked Peter, I just preferred Bryan all along because he seemed so crazy about Rachel, but Peter did tend to get snarky about Bryan.  I haven't forgotten his catty remark about Bryan's "fake cheeks."

I'm sure Bryan worked hard for his doctorate, just as Rachel worked hard for her law degree and that's just one more thing the two have in common.

[Wandering Snark]

32 minutes ago, lightbeam said:

If Peter becomes the next bachelor, I don't think I can watch his season. He would be completely and utterly full of shit to me. If he quietly walks away from this franchise I will respect him more.

"Respect" is seemingly very low on the list of 'contestant' requirements. We have people with multiple proposals in their wakes back on BiP and other ways in being a hanger-on of the bachelor cash-cow. Whether they will be respected doesn't seem to enter into decisions of continuing to get stamps on your Bachelor Nation passport.

By which I mean to say if you are looking to 'respect' anyone involved in this show you'll likely be let down.

Edited August 9, 2017 by Wandering Snark

[Kendra143]

Honestly the Doctor of Chiropractic is not a doctoral degree in the literal sense. It's an honorary "title" given after completing 2-3 years of college and 3 years of chiropractic school plus a final year of internship. A PhD requires years of education in a chosen field, a physician or DO requires 4 years of college, 4 years of medical school plus at least 3 years of Residency. Some chiropractors do their studies in a 3 year community college program.  

[violet and green]

10 hours ago, mostlylurking said:

I do think Eric said before his hometown date that many of his relatives were/had been in prison.

That he did. He also mentioned one (an uncle?) who was locked up for 50 years.

[nlkm9]

46 minutes ago, JenE4 said:

^Completely agree, Truthaboutluv! We've had pantsoprenuers, dog lovers, and chicken enthusiasts for Christ's sake!

LOL the pantstrapenuer and the chicken enthusisat amongst my faves. you make a very good point!

1 minute ago, violet and green said:

That he did. He also mentioned one (an uncle?) who was locked up for 50 years.

yes he talked about it more than once.

[violet and green]

10 hours ago, debbie311 said:

OMG, that dress she was wearing when she sent Eric home.  It was scary! 

The looks on their faces! Girrll, what the fuck are you wearing? See-through orange nylon over what looked like a pair of spanxs or a homemade superwoman costume, and she actually clanked when she was saying goodbye to Eric!

[Wandering Snark]

I said out loud 'What is with THIS outfit?" when she first showed up in it. It was like a men's rumba shirt as seen through a bondage couture filter.

[Alapaki]

6 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Interesting.  I wonder if it evolved from Oprah's season that was focused on living your authentic life.  God bless the millennials with all that pressure to live their best lives. It seems like you would always be assessing yourself.  Just the constant talk of "setting goals," seems exhausting to me.  My generation was all, "different strokes for different folks," so that if all you wanted to do was get stoned and watch Captain Kangaroo that was cool, man. Hey, maybe they're all in Colorado now, living their best life!

I though the offensive thing about "living my best life" was the context.  Someone brought up Peter's "mediocre" comment.  Peter apologized for it.  Rachel could've accepted the apology, acknowledged that it was said in the midst of an emotionally charged discussion, and moved on.  

Instead, she threw that line out as if to say "I'm not mediocre, I'm awesome, I'm the big winner! Hang on, just checking texts from my agent to see if Dancing With The Stars called yet."

[Chick2Chic]

Extra TV Interview with Eric on the finale episode.

[nutty1]

Ali interviewing Eric the day of the finale. 

 

[fib]

7 hours ago, ridethemaverick said:

 

Do all bachelorettes get accused of being entitled, wanting to be worshipped, and having their expectations set too high, or is it just Rachel? Sincere question since this is my first time watching since season 1.

Yeah. It had been much uglier sometimes too. Bentley and Kalon come to mind as people who said it to the Bachelorettes faces.  Kaitlyn got it all around. 

6 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

In some of her interviews from last night and today, she's sort of explained this. She said when she went to Peter's room, she knew she was going to say goodbye to him because she knew she was picking Bryan and didn't want to put Peter through the whole FRC thing. However, before she got to that, after being so adamant about not feeling ready to propose, Peter suddenly was saying, "if he had to do it to keep her he would" and the whole thing just messed with her head and started confusing her and making her second guess herself and her decision. The way Rachel has spoken, without giving specifics, about how there were deep rooted issues with Peter and she hated that the show made it seem like she was just obsessed with a ring, I feel like this was a situation of a guy who did some serious emotional mental manipulation on her.

Peter fan here! (Warning ;-). ). Her apparent revisionism on this? It seems more about Rachel and her baggage than about Peter. He seemed pretty clear about his position, and she kept responding to what her ex did to her, not to what Peter was saying. Im glad theyre not together - two stubborn people who dont listen are not a good match - but I never fet Peter was manipulating her. I thought he was wordy and she was touchy feely. Again- not a good pair.  

3 hours ago, felicity porter said:

I know people keep giving her crap for going with her second choice, but is that really such a bad thing?. 

Im not mad at her for going for her number 2, Im mad at her for being mean to Peter.  I really didnt like all the shade she threw towards his possible Bachelorness last night.  Like - you clearly broke his heart, do you have to piss on his consolation prize too? Especially if it really aleays was Bryan. 

[TheFinalRose]

I honestly don't think I've ever seen a F2 Bachelorette contestant as depressed looking as Peter was last night. We've all seen lots of F2 contestants get their hearts ripped out at the end, after telling the lead they love them, and being forced to do voice over after voice over expressing their love for the Bachelorette, only to be the dreaded first one out of the limo at the final rose ceremony. Peter, who was always so reserved and unsure about his feelings, got away without having to do all that ridiculous commentary. He didn't even express love for her until the very last minute and he was spared the humiliation that most F2 have to go through.

So why, out of all the many, many, finalists that came before him, was he the world's biggest sad sack? Sitting on the floor backstage before coming on stage? Come on. He had months to come to terms with the way the show ended. Most of the F2s/F3s are able to smile, state their case, ask a few questions and in the end wish the lead well. Look how gracious and beautifully Eric handled it! But Peter was just such a downer. Does he act like that all the time when things don't go his way? If they cast him as the Bachelor, I think they will be making a terrible mistake. 

[SnapeCharmer]

7 hours ago, b2H said:

Yeah, but the rude awakening for both Rachel and Peter came when they had to watch the edited version of what happened in Spain that night.  When they showed Peter backstage before he came out to face her, he was about as close to a fetal position as I have ever seen anyone in a fetal position.  If that was acting on his part, he deserves an Oscar, but I sincerely believe that wasn't acting.

I respectfully disagree. 

[Quickbeam]

Finally got around to watching this train wreck. Bryan seems like an afterthought to me. Rachel seemed so very attracted to Peter (which I completely understand) and was pissed that this was just not going to work out in the way she wanted. Peter dug in and seemed to grow more resistant when he felt pushed. Rachel had a long term relationship go no where and was all "I won't be fooled again ". 

I like Rachel a lot despite the crazy eyelashes. It's been a long road and she was not to be diverted from the prize. I just can't believe the prize is Bryan and I'm not sure she does either. 

[SnapeCharmer]

7 hours ago, Wandering Snark said:

Imagine a fairy tale land where all cliche relationship tropes are happily played out. It's on a island know for wrecking boats on it's rock shores. You can see it from normal dry land and there are plenty of stories of how wonderous it can be. This was Peter's issue, he knew where he wanted to get to and bask in the sun but there was no bridge and there's sharks in the water.

He finally gave up his image of building that bridge together and skipping off down the yellow brick bridge and said "Fine, I'll just carry you on my back across the waters even if it might kill me. For you." but that wasn't enough because she needed to be able to see the bridge. There was no diamond encrusted bridge.

You almost made me a believer.

[Kira53]

13 hours ago, fib said:

Of course they are. But they aren't required to agree to every whim of the producers that makes it the most dramatic finale. Watching it live, having to respond to the breakup before the glee of the engagement? She could have put her foot down.  Because if she said she wouldnt do things that way, what could the producers do? Have Chris do the live show without her? No.  They would be flexible in an effort to get the best show possible. They could have compromised and done the first half live (with the Eric breakup) and the second half in the normal format.  It would have been better all around. A pr person might have been able to see that coming, and help her fight for her image.  Which right now? Isnt at its peak. 

Rachel wanted to preserve any future opportunity with ABC for things like DWTS (DeMario may get that), free wedding but most especially a sportscaster job.  She would do anything that they wanted to get that next opportunity.  

BTW,  the kisses with Bryan ATFR were quiet and dispassionate.  Where was all the loud smacking and slurping.  The kisses were short too.  The  Proposal, done a second time,went flat for me.  I always wonder when people have repeated weddings.  Heidi Klum and Seal come to mind.  I don't think that she had much power with ABC when she's aiming for an on air career in the business and ABC could offer her something.

 I do think that Rachel has some of the worst instincts about how to present herself. She was so worried that she had to get a proposal so bad she now looks superficial and phony.  She is acting like she was the dumped one on the bachelor not the lead who didn't want that flawed man anyway. Today's revised narrative  just doesn't hold water. If she didn't want Peter and realized on her second date with Peter that she didn't want Peter why did she try so hard to make him propose?  So she can humiliate him? Her revised story seems so lawyer like,  they alway want to twist motives and change the facts.

Edited August 9, 2017 by Kira53
Terrible typos. iPad isn't the easiest way to write.

[SnapeCharmer]

7 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

Then they should make them get married at the final rose ceremony.  Put up or shut up.

I don't disagree. Isn't that what they do on Married at First Sight? (Haven't seen it before)

[violet and green]

Well, I have washed my hair and finished the program. That was gruelling!

Random thoughts: I was unspoiled, that's how I like to do it. But I was hoping against hope ole Pete would stagger in at the last moment somehow. Interesting detail about the two fake eyelashes lying on the floor for several days...

I kind of expected she'd do a Des and settle for Bryan* - because Rachel really, really wanted an engagement ring. Nice and rushed and what a mess! That proposal was all about the wind and the bad hair and the worse sound... Who doesn't want a "romantic proposal" in a windstorm with hair whipped into in your lipgloss?  

I have come to the conclusion the show does not love Rachel. They sent her out in that many figure-unflattering outfits, and kept in camera angles that were not her friend.

Good to see they finally fixed her a decent weave (or extra extensions or whathave you) for the grilling of Peter, and glad to see ole chipmunk Bryan had time for a refill of his fillers and some subtle Botox! Bam, that was over quick. Seeyalater, litigator!

I hope Peter is the next Bach, or Dean. I'd be happy with either. (Oh, but it would be even better if only my darling Brooks would come back with his floppy hair... Brooks!! I still love you!)

*minus the awful 'poems'

[SnapeCharmer]

7 hours ago, adhoc said:

I'm going to repost a comment from CrushOnSpivey, who said the following on Reality Steve's website:

"I have thought for many years now that the lead on this show gets a base plus a bonus structure.

"Bonuses for kissing as many people as possible. Bonuses for how many tell them they love them. Bonuses for drama in the house if they play along with it when asked. Bonuses for the Final 2 wanting to propose. Bonus for a final proposal.

"This is a TV show after all, so giving your lead incentives to make things happen to create what TPTB thinks makes a better show makes sense. It also would explain why Rachel leaned so hard on Peter for that proposal–so she could turn him down?"

 

I have to say this makes sense to me. I think at least one previous contestant mentioned something about being offered monetary incentives, or incentives like use of a cell phone, etc. 

Plus just think about the handlers on this show and how they manipulate the contestants. (Ex-handler Sarah Gertrude Shapiro once got an eliminated contestant to cry during the limo scene by "...tapping into her "food issues." I asked her, 'Do you think he dumped you because you are fat?'")

Who knows what was said to Rachel to help shape her actions during the show? "Do you want to be the only bachelorette not to receive two proposals?" Something along those lines? (Which sucks for Rachel because, IMHO, she did not get a really appropriate group of guys to choose from in the first place. Too young, too racist, too gimmicky, etc.) And maybe she was even told "Peter's really into you. He just needs a little more encouragement." We'll never know.

Likewise, there's Peter. Who's to say he didn't tell his handler "I'm not really feeling it with Rachel" that his handler didn't respond "She really likes you, and if you do your best to stick around, maybe you'll be in a good position to be our next Bachelor."

Moral of the story: It's a show. It's produced and contestants are "handled". Things are edited, spliced and diced. Take it all with a grain of salt.

I think this scenario is very plausible. Maybe not the bonuses for kisses etc. but the handlers and manipulations, totally.

[fib]

2 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

MMV, I am not going to put down either guy's profession or education level but I will say that I have frankly found it a little absurd how much shade Bryan got all season for his profession. This is a show

2 reasons: 1) several times he called himself a Chiropractic physician. That may be correct, but the common term is "Chiropractor", so saying C P sounded false and inflated.  He also referred to his "doctorate" when talking to Rachels family. Again, nothing wrong with that, it just is stuffy when most people would say degree or Chiropractic degree or "finished chiropractic school". (Fwiw, he has a tin ear on a lot of items, not just this one: comments like saying to Rachels family "Im going to love her over and over" and the i famous sloppy seconds remark  Even his proposal: "our first kiss? Was like a Chemistry bomb that just exploded!"   *shudder*  I will graciously chalk this up to his growing up in a spanish speaking household, but man,that mans mouth is not his best feature)  

2) He was a front runner and front runners get more shade. 

Can we talk about Rachel at the "ATFR"? That white dress?   She looked amazing!

[twoods]

2 hours ago, Kira53 said:

Why so "Bitter Betty"?   Didn't Rachel "lead on" Dean by saying "I love you" and then cutting him?   Didn't Rachel "lead on" Eric, " I love you,"  no rose for you buddy. Didn't Rachel "lead on" Matt and Adam that they might just get their one on one date? And possibly go home with Rachel.   it's it's the show.  That's why they call the "Lead"the "Lead"; the lead everyone on, including the audience.

I'm not being a "bitter Betty" because I don't mind Peter, but the lovefest on social media is crazy. I was simply stating that he could be an ass if he was the Bachelor and people would still love him because he has a pretty big fan base. I don't think he will be an ass, but if he is still hesitant about not proposing, he will be breaking some hearts because he has that personality that will have women all over him. 

Guess I should be careful when I criticize Peter. I think what Rachel did to Dean absolutely sucked. I felt so bad for him.

[Wandering Snark]

If she got paid bonuses per kiss/person kissed she will never have to shill on Facebook as she is sitting on a treasure trove of kiss-payoff money.

[truthaboutluv]

7 minutes ago, fib said:

2 reasons: 1) several times he called himself a Chiropractic physician. That may be correct, but the common term is "Chiropractor", so saying C P sounded false and inflated.  He also referred to his "doctorate" when talking to Rachels family. Again, nothing wrong with that, it just is stuffy when most people would say degree or Chiropractic degree or "finished chiropractic school". (Fwiw, he has a tin ear on a lot of items, not just this one: comments like saying to Rachels family "Im going to love her over and over" and the i famous sloppy seconds remark  Even his proposal: "our first kiss? Was like a Chemistry bomb that just exploded!"   *shudder*  I will graciously chalk this up to his growing up in a spanish speaking household, but man,that mans mouth is not his best feature)  

2) He was a front runner and front runners get more shade. 

All of that is all well and good but it doesn't negate my point. Sure, front runners get shade and as I said, Bryan certainly got plenty of it (and still does) - his supposed fake cheeks, his cheesy lines, his sloppy seconds remark, his kissing style, etc. So in my opinion, with all that material to drag the guy about, I just think and still do that it was ridiculous to attack his career. He, unlike many people who come onto this show had an actual job but suddenly that job was so shameful and awful. It just felt like attacking someone for any and all reasons and I just found it petty and ridiculous. YMMV. 

[Syncopation]

That whole break up between Peter and Rachel (my favorite Bachelorette by far) left me with a lot of dissonance. I think Peter was waiting for some validation that if he went all the way and proposed, that she wanted to marry him and would say yes ---- not reject him for Bryan. She was in the drivers seat and he was uncertain. I have seen many bachelors and bachelorettes have similar fears. Peter is an introvert and wanted a very clear signal that he was the one before he asked her to marry him. Remember, he knew she had been kissing, etc. all these other guys, he saw the gift she gave to Bryan, and she wasn't willing to give him any confirmation that he was the one (and in the past, other bachelor/bachelorettes clearly  signaled their final choices they were the one).  Then, he asked her point blank if she was ready to marry him and she said she couldn't answer that. So, was she all in? Was she trying to get him to propose before she turned him down (like she did with Dean and Eric)? Is she paid more if she gets more "I love you's" from the guys? He was very clear that his proposal meant he was all in --- so if she wasn't all in he didn't want to propose.  My husband is an introvert and was exactly the same way --- he needed affirmation that he was 'the one' and then he was all in. 

She is still by far my favorite bachelorette, but this ending left me feeling extremely ambivalent.

[comosedice]

26 minutes ago, TheFinalRose said:

I honestly don't think I've ever seen a F2 Bachelorette contestant as depressed looking as Peter was last night. We've all seen lots of F2 contestants get their hearts ripped out at the end, after telling the lead they love them, and being forced to do voice over after voice over expressing their love for the Bachelorette, only to be the dreaded first one out of the limo at the final rose ceremony. Peter, who was always so reserved and unsure about his feelings, got away without having to do all that ridiculous commentary. He didn't even express love for her until the very last minute and he was spared the humiliation that most F2 have to go through.

So why, out of all the many, many, finalists that came before him, was he the world's biggest sad sack? Sitting on the floor backstage before coming on stage? Come on. He had months to come to terms with the way the show ended. Most of the F2s/F3s are able to smile, state their case, ask a few questions and in the end wish the lead well. Look how gracious and beautifully Eric handled it! But Peter was just such a downer. Does he act like that all the time when things don't go his way? If they cast him as the Bachelor, I think they will be making a terrible mistake. 

It is probably difficult for you to believe and you would probably never give him the benefit of a doubt, but maybe, just maybe Peter had seriously deep feelings for Rachel and is not over losing her yet.  This could explain his "sad sack" appearance. I've liked Peter from the beginning, so I don't see him as the sinister manipulator who played mind games with Rachel.  I think he is emotionally reserved but very direct. I appreciated his honesty. He laid his cards on the table and Rachel chose to keep him any way. If 17 yr old Peter's yearbook quote had not been made public nobody would be talking about a Bachelor audition because his behavior the whole time has not been pro-process hence all the talk about losing respect for him if he became the Bachelor or that the show is not for him.  The more I see people try to destroy his character with their nasty baseless theories, the more my heart goes out to him.

[Miss Slay]

2 minutes ago, Syncopation said:

That whole break up between Peter and Rachel (my favorite Bachelorette by far) left me with a lot of dissonance. I think Peter was waiting for some validation that if he went all the way and proposed, that she wanted to marry him and would say yes ---- not reject him for Bryan. She was in the drivers seat and he was uncertain. I have seen many bachelors and bachelorettes have similar fears. Peter is an introvert and wanted a very clear signal that he was the one before he asked her to marry him. Remember, he knew she had been kissing, etc. all these other guys, he saw the gift she gave to Bryan, and she wasn't willing to give him any confirmation that he was the one (and in the past, other bachelor/bachelorettes clearly  signaled their final choices they were the one).  Then, he asked her point blank if she was ready to marry him and she said she couldn't answer that. So, was she all in? Was she trying to get him to propose before she turned him down (like she did with Dean and Eric)? Is she paid more if she gets more "I love you's" from the guys? He was very clear that his proposal meant he was all in --- so if she wasn't all in he didn't want to propose.  My husband is an introvert and was exactly the same way --- he needed affirmation that he was 'the one' and then he was all in. 

She is still by far my favorite bachelorette, but this ending left me feeling extremely ambivalent.

Yes, to your entire post. You hit the nail on the head. Peter is def. an introvert and that's why he's so hard to read. There are people on both sides that are so sure that he had feelings for her and then there are people who just as sure that he didn't. None of use can "read" Peter because of his introverted ways.

I always thought Peter started to pull away after that hot tub make out session. He really needed affirmation from Rachel at that point in the competition. And he saw that Rachel could make out with him in a hot tub for 3 hours and still give the group date Rose to Will. I really like Rachel - but I don't think she even realized how that came across to Peter.

[Chick2Chic]

15 minutes ago, comosedice said:

The more I see people try to destroy his character with their nasty baseless theories, the more my heart goes out to him.

Rachel has made some comments today in interviews that are making me side-eye her. If she is living her best life now, then why is she still feeling the need to be petty and defensive about Peter? She got her ring - "give it to me!" - so she shouldn't care about anything or anyone but this bliss she says she feels about her engagement and her future with Bryan. I hope she stops the pettiness soon as it is a bad look for her and totally unnecessary. She WON who she said she wanted from the beginning. Why be a sore winner at this point? It accomplishes nothing. 

I am wondering how well Bryan's store selling "Bachel" merchandise. I find it very tacky. 

Edited August 9, 2017 by Chick2Chic
spelling

[TheFinalRose]

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If 17 yr old Peter's yearbook quote had not been made public nobody would be talking about a Bachelor audition because his behavior the whole time has not been pro-process hence all the talk about losing respect for him if he became the Bachelor or that the show is not for him.  The more I see people try to destroy his character with their nasty baseless theories, the more my heart goes out to him.

 

The F2 or F3 are always in the running for the lead in the next Bachelor, yearbook quotes or not.

[nutty1]

1 hour ago, violet and green said:

Well, I have washed my hair and finished the program. That was gruelling!

Random thoughts: I was unspoiled, that's how I like to do it. But I was hoping against hope ole Pete would stagger in at the last moment somehow. Interesting detail about the two fake eyelashes lying on the floor for several days...

I kind of expected she'd do a Des and settle for Bryan* - because Rachel really, really wanted an engagement ring. Nice and rushed and what a mess! That proposal was all about the wind and the bad hair and the worse sound... Who doesn't want a "romantic proposal" in a windstorm with hair whipped into in your lipgloss?  

I have come to the conclusion the show does not love Rachel. They sent her out in that many figure-unflattering outfits, and kept in camera angles that were not her friend.

Good to see they finally fixed her a decent weave (or extra extensions or whathave you) for the grilling of Peter, and glad to see ole chipmunk Bryan had time for a refill of his fillers and some subtle Botox! Bam, that was over quick. Seeyalater, litigator!

I hope Peter is the next Bach, or Dean. I'd be happy with either. (Oh, but it would be even better if only my darling Brooks would come back with his floppy hair... Brooks!! I still love you!)

*minus the awful 'poems'

OMG....Brooks. One of my all time favorites (along with Reid and now Peter). Brooks now has a long time girlfriend. I was really hoping for a season of him also!

[comosedice]

54 minutes ago, TheFinalRose said:

The F2 or F3 are always in the running for the lead in the next Bachelor, yearbook quotes or not.

Well, in the running doesn't mean will be. Neither Chase nor Robbie became the Bachelor out of Jojo's season.

18 minutes ago, nutty1 said:

OMG....Brooks. One of my all time favorites (along with Reid and now Peter). Brooks now has a long time girlfriend. I was really hoping for a season of him also!

Man, I loved Reid. He was another one that struggled with the hasty "I love you."

[tvguru94]

2 hours ago, fib said:

iw, he has a tin ear on a lot of items, not just this one: comments like saying to Rachels family "Im going to love her over and over" and the i famous sloppy seconds remark  Even his proposal: "our first kiss? Was like a Chemistry bomb

Actually, I believe he said it was "literally like a chemistry bomb that just exploded." That would have been a short season.

[SallyAlbright]

Interesting - Rachel told Bryan that she was in love with him during the Fantasy Suite date.

Right around 1:40: 

[backformore]

11 hours ago, bantering said:

On another note, I guess  he looked a little depressed, and  perhaps  that  makes people feel sorry for him, but I don't understand why any guy would go on  THIS particular show  if they think  they can  convince a woman not to want to  get engaged. The women who go one  this show go in with the mindset of nabbing a ring.

(about Peter)

I don't think we can assume that Peter went into it NOT wanting to get engaged.  He probably bought into the "process"  as much as anyone does.  But when it came down to the wire, he could not commit to marriage with Rachel.   It doesn't mean he didn't  feel love, it doesn't mean he couldn't propose to another woman.  It means simply, that during the process of falling for a woman who was also dating other guys, he was not ready to make that commitment.  

You can't decide when you first go on the show that you WILL propose at the end.  He was being true to himself, and wasn't 100% sure he wanted to marry Rachel.  

I do think that Rachel was being unfair to push him so hard for a proposal.   Did she need TWO proposals?  was she then going to look over both rings, and decide who to marry based on which RING was better?    

[StatisticalOutlier]

8 hours ago, shouldbedancing said:

 #TeamEric! Make him the next Bachelor!

While I didn't think the fact that Eric had never been in love disqualified him from winning Rachel's season (people do sometimes happily end up with their first loves), I do think such a lack of experience would be incompatible with being The Bachelor.  I like the guy and would hate to see him get massively screwed up from being on the show.

 

4 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

And so for Bryan to have been borderline mocked all season like his career was something lesser than was plain ridiculous as far I'm concerned. And for the record, my best friend who didn't watch the season but had scoliosis is very offended by the hate for chiropractors since she credits hers for aligning her spine and loves him dearly. 

I don't think we hate chiropractors.  As pointed out above, it was Bryan's calling himself a "chiropractic physician" that got under people's skin.  You don't even have to have a college degree to get into most chiropractic schools.  I'm sure they can help people, but so can lawyers, and can you imagine the howling that would happen if they insisted on being called "Dr." because of their Juris Doctor degrees?  And you totally have to have an undergraduate degree to get one of those.

I'm actually kind of okay with a chiropractor calling himself "Doctor," but "physician"?  Nope.

 

2 hours ago, Syncopation said:

She was in the drivers seat

I don't think being on the receiving end of a hoped-for proposal is being in the driver's seat, but this is just #2 of the million reasons I'd make a terrible bachelorette.

[WhoInvitedHer]

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  ON 8/8/2017 AT 6:01 AM, BK10 SAID:

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I hope that there's never another black bachelor or bachelorette.  

Um, excuse me?  What's that all about?

 

I can't believe you're the first person to ask about this.  I have to assume since the poster just dropped it there with no further explanation that they are simply trolling. Lee, is that you?

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I wish we had been privy to his conversations about what type of bed they would buy, etc., that Rachel alluded to. I think Peter was giving off VERY conflicting vibes to her that we didn't see. Maybe when she watched the show alone, (as she reminded us!) she was finally able to see his distant body language in a way she didn't while living it, and her perspective on Peter really changed to the point that, by the time she got to last night she didn't have any more patience for Mr. Indecision.

I couldn't agree more. I think he completely led her on, knowing that the farther he got the better his chances for Bachelor were. As she mentioned, she did have doubts about him before but she wanted it to be him so badly and he was giving her just enough to make her believe he might get there. I could see him start pumping the brakes hard in Geneva, probably hoping that she would get the hint and send him home soon. But without the benefit of social media - which tells us clearly that he's been angling for the Bachelor gig since high school - she confused his fear of her dashing those chances by picking him for a sincere hesitancy about rushing into it, when that wouldn't make a big difference if he were genuinely in love with her. If you sign up for this show, you know that the end game is a proposal. If you aren't in love with the lead enough to go through those motions, it's on you to leave. He did neither, still professing to be in love with her at the end. It's no wonder she was hurt and confused. It was clear too, as she alluded to, that she did ask him (probably more than once) to leave if he wasn't feeling it. He did not.

Rachel was being a bit petty, but considering this was the first time she was watching this back, and seeing Peter after becoming conscious of just how much he was playing her, it is easily understandable to me; I've totally been there, when you think you have a handle on the situation and then one comment brings back all the pain and anger. She was probably also angry that he wasted so much of her time and attention that could have been spent on getting to know some of the other guys better who had a genuine interest in her. I actually clapped when she started sabotaging his chances at Bachelor. She knew exactly what she was doing, and so did he. He fully deserved it.

I am sure that Peter will be the next Bachelor anyway, because people just seem to be blinded by his good looks even though he has the personality of a cardboard box. He's so dour and mumble-mouthed he makes Nick Viall look like a sparkling bon vivant. But who else is there? Dean doesn't want it, and sadly I don't think they will choose one of the black men. I'd like Eric to get it, or Kenny if he promised to keep the mentions of his daughter to a minimum of once per episode, but I just don't think they'll go there. Maybe Will has a shot? I really think it's time for this franchise to stop selecting the leads from the contestant pool. Between hoping to be the next Bach/ette and/or going on Bachelor in Paradise, nobody is in this to win it anymore. The second place prize is better than the first place prize. 

I do feel bad for Bryan. Even though he's a smarmy cheeseball, I do think he has genuine affection for Rachel and is interested at least in dating her, if not marrying her right away. Seeing how clearly she hoped for it to be Peter must hurt. And if there was more evidence that it was Bryan anyway at that point, I wish we'd seen it. I doubt they'll work out but I hope to pleasantly surprised. 

Edited August 9, 2017 by WhoInvitedHer

[halkatla]

I haven´t watched the last few episodes, just wanted to say that I´m glad she picked Bryan. It would have been difficult for her to have a serious relationship with another man while her and Bryan are glued together by their tongues.  I also wish her luck, dealing with that mil will be strange and difficult.

[nutty1]

I watched the "breakup" again last night. I have not rewatched any part of the Bachelor/Ette in years. It was brutal. She was crying hysterically, her face was soaking wet at the end. We had to miss something. Because when they were out in the hallway, her eyelashes were off. I could not bring myself to rewatch Peter on the ATFR though.

Edited August 9, 2017 by nutty1

[nlkm9]

Did I hear Rachel in an interview last nite, saying they're not "rushing things?". I really liked her as a bachelorette, but this makes my head hurt,lol.

[comosedice]

3 hours ago, WhoInvitedHer said:

I can't believe you're the first person to ask about this.  I have to assume since the poster just dropped it there with no further explanation that they are simply trolling. Lee, is that you?

I couldn't agree more. I think he completely led her on, knowing that the farther he got the better his chances for Bachelor were. As she mentioned, she did have doubts about him before but she wanted it to be him so badly and he was giving her just enough to make her believe he might get there. I could see him start pumping the brakes hard in Geneva, probably hoping that she would get the hint and send him home soon. But without the benefit of social media - which tells us clearly that he's been angling for the Bachelor gig since high school - she confused his fear of her dashing those chances by picking him for a sincere hesitancy about rushing into it, when that wouldn't make a big difference if he were genuinely in love with her. If you sign up for this show, you know that the end game is a proposal. If you aren't in love with the lead enough to go through those motions, it's on you to leave. He did neither, still professing to be in love with her at the end. It's no wonder she was hurt and confused. It was clear too, as she alluded to, that she did ask him (probably more than once) to leave if he wasn't feeling it. He did not.

Rachel was being a bit petty, but considering this was the first time she was watching this back, and seeing Peter after becoming conscious of just how much he was playing her, it is easily understandable to me; I've totally been there, when you think you have a handle on the situation and then one comment brings back all the pain and anger. She was probably also angry that he wasted so much of her time and attention that could have been spent on getting to know some of the other guys better who had a genuine interest in her. I actually clapped when she started sabotaging his chances at Bachelor. She knew exactly what she was doing, and so did he. He fully deserved it.

I am sure that Peter will be the next Bachelor anyway, because people just seem to be blinded by his good looks even though he has the personality of a cardboard box. He's so dour and mumble-mouthed he makes Nick Viall look like a sparkling bon vivant. But who else is there? Dean doesn't want it, and sadly I don't think they will choose one of the black men. I'd like Eric to get it, or Kenny if he promised to keep the mentions of his daughter to a minimum of once per episode, but I just don't think they'll go there. Maybe Will has a shot? I really think it's time for this franchise to stop selecting the leads from the contestant pool. Between hoping to be the next Bach/ette and/or going on Bachelor in Paradise, nobody is in this to win it anymore. The second place prize is better than the first place prize. 

I do feel bad for Bryan. Even though he's a smarmy cheeseball, I do think he has genuine affection for Rachel and is interested at least in dating her, if not marrying her right away. Seeing how clearly she hoped for it to be Peter must hurt. And if there was more evidence that it was Bryan anyway at that point, I wish we'd seen it. I doubt they'll work out but I hope to pleasantly surprised. 

I don't feel bad for Bryan one bit. I never liked him but good luck to him selling his a Bachelorette mugs and t-shirts. The rest of this post just angers me, so I'll not go over it. I love Peter!

[sistersledge]

This thread makes me laugh. I watched every single episode (well, except MTA) and I never saw any great "love" between Rachel and Peter. Frankly, I was surprised he was around so long. Based on previous contestant testimony and other things, I definitely think he wanted to leave earlier but was told to stay for the lure of the bachelor (I don't see it, he's not attractive to me at all). Maybe I'm looking through my 'been there done that with wishy washy pretty boys named Peter' (seriously haha) glasses. All the emotion at the "breakup" was probably just stress. 

Edited August 9, 2017 by sistersledge
Added a name that happens to be Peter

[fib]

8 minutes ago, comosedice said:

I don't feel bad for Bryan one bit. I never liked him but good luck to him selling his a Bachelorette mugs and t-shirts. The rest of this post just angers me, so I'll not go over it. I love Peter!

Anyone else horrified that he's making $ off Rachel's awesome ssayings not his own? Rachel is the witty one who is good w/ words. "I'm chill, until I'm not?-That's something Rachel should monetize- not Bryan. Everything-else on that dumb store? blech. I dont want Dr Abs merch.

[JudyObscure]

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3 hours ago, WhoInvitedHer said:

He's [Peter's] so dour and mumble-mouthed he makes Nick Viall look like a sparkling bon vivant.

 

Hee!  You have a great way with words, Whoinvitedher! I trust a happier Peter will have more sparkle and what guy isn't happy with 26 women chasing him?

Re: Chiropractor.  Yesterday, before I mentioned Bryan's career I looked it up on Wikipedia and the degree requirements vary a lot from state to state, with it being anything from a three year course, to a BS plus masters, to a doctorate degree with internship.  I think it might be like nursing which can be a 2 year practical nursing degree, a four year registered nursing degree, or a masters added to make a nurse practitioner.  I don't blame a nurse practitioner from adding that last word and I think if Bryan has a much more advanced education than the three year course, then why shouldn't he call himself a Chiropractic Physician?  It's not like they're all CP's and he's the only one calling himself that.

Just watching that clip and many of the other TV interviews and I have to say, I don't think any of the past Bachelor-ette's got grilled so ruthlessly.  We on the boards might have said Des picked Chris as a second string choice but I don't remember the Access or E people asking Chris how it felt to know she liked Brooks best.  No wonder Rachel seems to be throwing Peter under the bus.  What else can she do with her fiancé standing next to her while people ask her about her, "devastating break-up" with Peter as though he was kicking her out after living together for years.  They're making Rachel seem like a villain who deliberately breaks hearts, Peter a pitiful victim of girlfriend abuse, and Bryan a loser and an afterthought.  We know it's more complicated than that or we wouldn't be writing seven pages on it.

I liked both Peter and Bryan so I was surprised to see so much internet-anger and  Youtube grief over her choice.  She's had to justify it to TV interviewers who, you know, probably barely watch the show. It's one thing for us, on this board, to pick over every word of each episode, that's what we do here, but we aren't embarrassing anyone on live TV.