The Lonely Js Club: James, Jackson & Johannah

[Vaysh]

It's not a huge deal if you're still in the dating scene at 40, but JD's first and only (permanent, too) relationship starting off with kids who aren't his would probably suck and I'd feel pathetic and used in that position. Not trying to change anyone's opinions, but that's mine.

 

Well, fortunately for the divorced and widowed mothers in the world, your opinion clearly isn't shared by all men. ;)

 

I agree that a divorced woman would be a giant NO to marry in Duggarland, mainly because divorce carries such a social stigma in their world. However, in cases of divorce, the biological other parent is usually (not always, I know) still involved with their kids to some degree (shared custody, visitation rights, child support etc) so it's not like JD would be considered the father, the kids would still have a dad with a dad's financial responsibilities. And if he were to marry a widow, I really don't see how taking care of a dead man's child(ren) would make him pathetic or feel used; it's not like he wouldn't be aware of the kids' existance before going in. YMMV of course.

 

 

Back on topic, I've been starting to wonder lately if it's possible that Jana's been overrated for the past few years. I'm definitely not the only one, since it's repeatedly said she doesn't show much of a personality, but she doesn't speak up at all. Are people just assuming that she's so smart and awesome?

 

I can't speak for anyone else but personally I don't assume much of anything about Jana, she's a bit of a mystery. From what I have seen and from what I know about her past and present life and responsibilities I do feel tremendous sympathy and pity for her. I don't know if she's smart (considering the average Duggar level of intelligence I'd say the odds are not in her favour) but I do find her just a little bit awesome. Because from what I've seen and read, Jana is the centre of that family in terms of caretaking and child-rearing and has been growing into that role ever since she was a little girl herself. She's not sparkly or assertive like Jessa or Jill, but she endures her responsibilities and a life on a stage not of her own choosing, despite perhaps not having the personality for that kind of life and apparently without much of a reward to look forward to. I think that she is stuck in a situation that doesn't suit her (a high level of responsibility in a very public setting) and that she lacks the means and possibly the personality and drive to find any escape route that would be more suitable for her. And that is a terrible situation for anyone to be in, so whether Jana is smart and awesome or not, I can't help but feel compassion for her.

[GEML]

I used to be in the camp that thought Jana was oppressed and it was all about her parents oppression, but then I noticed how often we all commented in how pretty she was. And that made me wonder if we were responding to her because she was pretty, or if she really was oppressed. So I'm more neutral about it. Yes, it's true that she grew up in a terribly restrictive, fundy household that punished individualism for uniform obedience. But plenty of other people have come out of worse situations with much less to help them. So at some point you have to say she's responsible for herself.

[GEML]

I'm 45 and I still don't know what I don't know. But I knew an awful lot at 17. Maybe Marjorie does too. Not about "the world" so much, but she might know about the Duggars. More than we do, at any rate. And that is what she needs to know if she's going to join the circus.

[Fuzzysox]

Time will tell. I'm surprised that I'm honestly more interested in this courtship than I was in either of the girls' -- maybe I just find Josiah and Marjorie more interesting as people (which wouldn't take much). We haven't even really started seeing it yet, but I'm intrigued. I hope they get a lot of air time next season.[/quote

I think we will all watch since Josiah for the majority of us is one of the favorites. I hope we get to really "meet" him and get to know what he is all about.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Fuzzysox

[Vaysh]

Yes, it's true that she grew up in a terribly restrictive, fundy household that punished individualism for uniform obedience. But plenty of other people have come out of worse situations with much less to help them. So at some point you have to say she's responsible for herself.

 

But isn't that a bit like saying that everyone is the same; have the same history, responsibilities and interpersonal relationships, the same personalities, intelligence, characters, levels of courage etc etc? Just because some people have the capability of removing themselves from a similar situation, does that mean that everyone does? If some women can leave their abusive husbands does that mean that all women should be able to, no matter their circumstances? (I'm not saying Jim Bob and Michelle are physically harming Jana, of course).

 

Forgive me for being a bit prejudiced but this sounds a lot like the myth of The American Dream - some people came from nothing and became successful millionaires so therefore everyone should be able to do the same and if you can't it's entirely your own fault, sucks to be you. I'm not even sure we can compare Jana's situation to anyone else's because aside from the Bateses who have an entirely different parenting style than the Duggars, there are no other Gothardites living in the spotlight and I'm sure that being in the public eye affects all of the Duggar kids' behaviour and life choices quite a bit.

 

Haha, I'm becoming quite the Jana apologist here and I'm not even sure why. I don't think it's the "pretty"; I find her sweet looking but rather plain, but I guess it could be the fact that she seems generally downtrodden and taken advantage of by parents who are so obviously selfish and irresponsible.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Vaysh

[Literata]

I used to be in the camp that thought Jana was oppressed and it was all about her parents oppression, but then I noticed how often we all commented in how pretty she was. And that made me wonder if we were responding to her because she was pretty, or if she really was oppressed. So I'm more neutral about it. Yes, it's true that she grew up in a terribly restrictive, fundy household that punished individualism for uniform obedience. But plenty of other people have come out of worse situations with much less to help them. So at some point you have to say she's responsible for herself.

I agree entirely. I've been thinking for a while now that Jana is making her own choices based on the life she knows. I'm still somewhat concerned that Jana was one of Gothard's chosen ones and may have been taken advantage of at some point, but even if that's not the case, I just don't see Jana as having the drive and tenacity to do anything but keep doing what she's doing. I don't know whether her motivation is her feelings for the younger kids or possibly her own fears of the big, bad world beyond the Duggar house, but I just don't see her life changing anytime soon.

[ChicksDigScars]

In rewatching "Jill's Special Delivery," which should actually be called "Michelle Talking About Herself for 90 Fucking Minutes," I noticed that when MEE-chelle was talking on her brand knew I-Phone 6 Jumbo (to Jill and Derick after Jill's water broke), she hung up and said to Jana, "Jill's our first daughter to have a baby, who knows, you could be going through this soon," and Jana said, clear as day, "not for a LONG time." 

 

I think she's been beaten into submission by years of raising her own siblings, doing shit that her mother should have been doing, and probably taking care of her mother every time she had a breakdown, or was in "maternity recovery mode," that she doesn't WANT to court, knowing that as soon as she says yes, withing a year she'll be engaged, married and pregnant. The only way to keep that from happening is to not let a man within sniffing distance and not touch a penis. 

[Happyfatchick]

Back on topic, I've been starting to wonder lately if it's possible that Jana's been overrated for the past few years. I'm definitely not the only one, since it's repeatedly said she doesn't show much of a personality, but she doesn't speak up at all. Are people just assuming that she's so smart and awesome? For all we know, she could be dim and boring.

I'm kind of a people watcher, myself.  I've seen some of Jana's TH moments, and she certainly not as quick to speak up as her sisters.  But I don't think she's dull, at least not by my read.  She's my favorite because she's creative.  She seems very shy, and does appear to want to be invisible.  But she's articulate and obviously nurturing, and beautiful.  I think, again just by my own read, she could blossom out from under the Duggar thumb.  She plays piano, she sews, she decorates, she's creative.  She's quiet but might have great potential away from the Duggar machine. 

 

I've pm'd her on FB with suggestions for a home based business.  No response.  I don't believe she maintains the account after all; she would have said a polite no-thank-you if she did.  My thinking is if she could establish a business of her own, it would build her self esteem.  Give her a sense of accomplishment.  Silly, I know.  I've never written anyone like that before.

[Wellfleet]

I'm 45 and I still don't know what I don't know. But I knew an awful lot at 17. Maybe Marjorie does too. Not about "the world" so much, but she might know about the Duggars. More than we do, at any rate. And that is what she needs to know if she's going to join the circus.

 

I honestly hope Marjorie ends up having the exact life she's dreaming about right now, at 17, whatever that might be. It's surely possible, but I just don't think it's likely. I tell my 22-year old niece all the time: The first kid her age that really listens to what her parents and others [like me] are saying is going to CLEAN UP, in some wonderful way, in Life. Be the next Oprah or something. And my niece smiles indulgently at me and rolls her eyes, and of course I know she's going to have to live through it to actually learn what I'm trying to tell her. We do know a lot when we're young. We just don't find out until we're older how wrong we were about most of it. That's Life, I guess...

Edited May 10, 2015 by Wellfleet

[RedheadZombie]

But isn't that a bit like saying that everyone is the same; have the same history, responsibilities and interpersonal relationships, the same personalities, intelligence, characters, levels of courage etc etc? Just because some people have the capability of removing themselves from a similar situation, does that mean that everyone does? If some women can leave their abusive husbands does that mean that all women should be able to, no matter their circumstances? (I'm not saying Jim Bob and Michelle are physically harming Jana, of course).

 

Forgive me for being a bit prejudiced but this sounds a lot like the myth of The American Dream - some people came from nothing and became successful millionaires so therefore everyone should be able to do the same and if you can't it's entirely your own fault, sucks to be you. I'm not even sure we can compare Jana's situation to anyone else's because aside from the Bateses who have an entirely different parenting style than the Duggars, there are no other Gothardites living in the spotlight and I'm sure that being in the public eye affects all of the Duggar kids' behaviour and life choices quite a bit.

 

Haha, I'm becoming quite the Jana apologist here and I'm not even sure why. I don't think it's the "pretty"; I find her sweet looking but rather plain, but I guess it could be the fact that she seems generally downtrodden and taken advantage of by parents who are so obviously selfish and irresponsible.

 

I agree with all of this.  Yes, there are people who grow up in these situations, but manage to get out.  I've followed a lot of these cases - the FLDS, for one.  But in every one of these cases, the women who've managed to leave are described as strong-willed, and/or the rebel of the family.  Whether Jana was born meek or turned meek, that doesn't mean her situation is her own fault.  In fact, I find that opinion utterly lacking in empathy and compassion.

 

So I don't feel less compassion for Jana - even though she's not legally held hostage.  I feel more compassion for her. She's living a life that she's always been told is pleasing to God.  The stronger members of the family haven't ditched the Duggar show.  Jessa, who has always been described as the rebel who's going to leave this all behind, is a sell out just like everyone else.  Josiah, who was individual enough to show unhappiness at Michelle's last pregnancy - now a perfect little Duggar, and towing the line.  I think Jill has a forceful enough personality to tell them all to fuck off, but instead she's used her strong personality to inform on the rule breakers, and get her younger siblings to fall in line.

 

And I agree with your analogy.  If I see an abused wife who refuses to leave her husband, I don't think:  Well, it's her choice to stay there, it's not like he can physically keep her from leaving.  That means she's happy enough in that life, and it's her own fault for accepting it.

 

Edited out a personal story to avoid being moderated.

Edited May 10, 2015 by RedheadZombie

[Micks Picks]

Perhaps Jana doesn't want the type of courtship and engagement that the Duggars demand.  I'm sure she would not like the circus following her around while she was trying to get to know someone.  I doubt she'd appreciate all the instruction about marriage from her parents, and I'm sure she would die inside with comments insinuating themselves into her sexlife.  I don't think she could stand it.  Nor could she bear everyone asking when she will be pregnant and then talking about her pregnancy and giving her advise.  Not for her the center of attention at baby showers (I'm sure she is sick to death of them).  And she may be like me and really hate other people touching me.  Like get your hands off my belly, shut up, shut up, shut up.  She seems to be a private person, and getting married just so that she would have the added obligation of sex may be abhorrent.  Sex because you love someone is one thing, but sex because your husband is your master is quite different.  Anyway, just my opinion.

[Apple Clark]

She seems to be a private person, and getting married just so that she would have the added obligation of sex may be abhorrent.  Sex because you love someone is one thing, but sex because your husband is your master is quite different.  Anyway, just my opinion.

Never thought about that.... They have never (as far as I know, correct me if I'm wrong) said to wait to have sex with the person you love, just to wait until marriage and (to the girls) always be ready to fuck no matter what you're doing or how you feel (Michelle saying, "Duggar women don't get headaches." REALLY pissed me off ). They only ever speak of sex as a dirty thing, or a physical thing that involves no emotion.

[becca3891]

Micks Picks, I think you're spot on about Jana. If she even has the desire to get married, which she may not, and as we've all said, who could blame her after having spent 20 years already as a mom, then I totally agree she would hate the whole TLC ridiculousness. Jill and Jessa seemed to thrive on it but really, we have had each and every detail about their courtship rules spelled out in excruciating detail three times now, not to mention others like the Wallers and Bateses on the show. I do hope that if she does meet someone, she can feel free to keep it off the show.

 

Better still, when the little girls get a little older and Jana feels less guilty, I hope she can finally pursue a life and age-appropriate activities, marriage or not. And for the record, I am not one of the ones who keeps pointing out how pretty she is. That is far from the point.

[Pinke]

But isn't that a bit like saying that everyone is the same; have the same history, responsibilities and interpersonal relationships, the same personalities, intelligence, characters, levels of courage etc etc? Just because some people have the capability of removing themselves from a similar situation, does that mean that everyone does? If some women can leave their abusive husbands does that mean that all women should be able to, no matter their circumstances? (I'm not saying Jim Bob and Michelle are physically harming Jana, of course).

 

Forgive me for being a bit prejudiced but this sounds a lot like the myth of The American Dream - some people came from nothing and became successful millionaires so therefore everyone should be able to do the same and if you can't it's entirely your own fault, sucks to be you. I'm not even sure we can compare Jana's situation to anyone else's because aside from the Bateses who have an entirely different parenting style than the Duggars, there are no other Gothardites living in the spotlight and I'm sure that being in the public eye affects all of the Duggar kids' behaviour and life choices quite a bit.

 

Haha, I'm becoming quite the Jana apologist here and I'm not even sure why. I don't think it's the "pretty"; I find her sweet looking but rather plain, but I guess it could be the fact that she seems generally downtrodden and taken advantage of by parents who are so obviously selfish and irresponsible.

 

Yes, THIS. A thousand times this. I wish more people would think this way. Thank you, Vaysh :)

 

[shannon612]

The laundry room breakdown was discussed in their first book, not on the show ( I haven't read any of the other books). Michelle had 7 kids at the time and she was up at 1:30 am doing load after load of laundry and she broke down in tears. Then she began to pray and sang praises to the Lord. A day later, their piano teacher offered  to help Michelle do the laundry. Since Grandma Mary was nearby, I wouldn't be surprised if she used to help Michelle at that time as well. Michelle talks a good game about how she had to do everything herself, but I've read accounts where she had a lot of people from their early church helping them a great deal with chores and donating clothing and food to the family. Back to Jana, at the time of this breakdown, the kids were 7, 5, 5, 4, 2 1/2, 1 1/2 and however many months old Joseph was then. I'm very certain Jana became a buddy at only 5 years old since she was the oldest girl. The following year all of the kids were a year older, but then Josiah was a newborn (going back in time approximately 19 years from today). Having that many children at home all the time with no break and trying to homeschool them would very likely drive the average person to a nervous breakdown..I think of the Andrea Yates case in regard to this. Also, when you think about how Jessa, Jinger and then Joseph were all born in the space of 26 months, that was a great deal of added stress to Michelle's body as well as her mind. Meanwhile, Jim Bob was out towing trucks, running a car lot and probably doing other wheeling and dealing so Michelle was likely on her own a lot more then. Jana had no choice but to become a buddy, as did Josh and John David for awhile, too. 

This bothers me. The Duggars except everyone to help them out and what not but no one told them to have that many children! If it was being to be a burden they should have stopped. I dont mind people helping out in cases like Kate Gosselin's where she really did not except to have 6 kids at once.. but the Duggars willing continued to have kids.

[cmr2014]

I think it's easy to make the assumption that Jana can conceive of a world where (decent) women go to college, hold jobs, and even choose not to marry. That is just something that doesn't happen in her world. People who escape poverty, or abusive homes, or even rigidly religious households have some concept of what is out there for them.

 

I was at a Habitat for Humanity event today, and a young woman was there who spoke of her experience when her parents received their Habitat house ten years ago. She said that she had mingled with the volunteer college students during the building process and had begun to imagine a different sort of life for herself. Today she is a college graduate who will be starting a Masters program in the fall. The experience of mingling with people with a different world-view completely changed her life.

 

Jana has had a very rich and varied experience compared with other Gothard women, but I wonder how much she has actually interacted with people outside of her family in all of their television appearances, book signings, and world travels. I think that she may actually like going to DC because it might be her first real opportunity to interact in the world outside of Gothard approved activities.

[SomePity1066]

I hate that Jana is called an Old Maid at only 25 ! I understand that in her situation she is considered as such because it's the Gothard way to get 'em hitched, out the door, and barefoot and pregnant years before they reach the quarter century mark, but it still galls me to no end. Especially as I didn't take the plunge until I was 33 ! How Old a Maid was I, then ?!?!  ;)

 

Being a total stranger that sees Jana on TV only, I can only speculate as to what she's like, but I read her as two things:

 

Wistful, for all the things that could or should be - freedom, independence, privacy, education, fun, friends of her own choosing, laughter, and, what the Hell, PANTS ! How about some Levi's for that poor girl ? Oh, and how about books, art, dancing, sleeping till noon, and maybe a nice glass of Pinot Grigio ?

 

The second thing, the most sad to me, is resigned. As in resigned to her fate, which is why I think she's so shy, retiring, quiet, and withdrawn. She just seems defeated.  She knows that if she leaves all Hell will break loose at TTH with just IDGAF Jinger and the very young Joy at the helm, so she grins and bears it. I can't imagine Mechelle trying to actually parent her, ummm...OWN CHILDREN, and within a short time it would devolve into a combination of Lord of the Flies and Weekend at Bernie's...

 

Kids unwashed, uncombed, unfed. Foot and handprints everywhere, someone has their head stuck in the railing again, and the boys are all strangely wearing camoflage and have been reduced to grunts and pointing to communicate. JB is upstairs unconscious because no one brought him breakfast and he just didn't know what to do, and Gramma has barricaded herself in the laundry room. Mechelle is on her treadmill surrounded by so many empty Starbucks cups that she can't see the Duggarpocalypse happening all around her. "I feel like I'm forgetting something..." she says, but can't quite put a finger on it. 

 

So that's all in fun, but probably not all that far off what Jana's absence would mean - with Jill and Jessa already gone Jana is the sad, sole lynchpin that makes that house work somehow. I imagine it's already gone downhill since her sisters left and now she's pulling triple-duty to make up for it, all while Mechelle spends half her time traveling and the the other half in her la-la-la "Meeeeee...!!!" time. Mother Of The Year, my ass...

 

If (when ?) Jana feels like it's safe to leave I feel like she'd want to do so quietly and privately - no bells, whistles, dog-and-pony show wedding or honeymoon. I am an intensely private person, and I see a lot of myself in her. There is absolutely NO video of me in existence, and I didn't even have a photographer at my wedding - just a few quick snaps and I was out of there ! My thinking is that Jana just wants to do her time, so to speak, until she's confident that the kids will be okay after reaching a certain age, and then she'll slip quietly away, perhaps to her own new family, perhaps alone. 

 

If the was any way to do a "It's a Wonderful Life" to show Mechelle and JB what things would have been like without the older girls I think things might have been very different in that house. Like more hands-on parenting, less reliance on that insidious buddy system, and maybe even (gasp) less kids !!!

 

I would love to have Jana say, as her parting shot to Mechelle and JB as she walks out the door, "If having to do laundry for that many kids makes you have a breakdown, you have too many kids, lady..." 

[Wellfleet]

I hate that Jana is called an Old Maid at only 25 ! I understand that in her situation she is considered as such because it's the Gothard way to get 'em hitched, out the door, and barefoot and pregnant years before they reach the quarter century mark, but it still galls me to no end. Especially as I didn't take the plunge until I was 33 ! How Old a Maid was I, then ?!?!  ;)

 

Being a total stranger that sees Jana on TV only, I can only speculate as to what she's like, but I read her as two things:

 

Wistful, for all the things that could or should be - freedom, independence, privacy, education, fun, friends of her own choosing, laughter, and, what the Hell, PANTS ! How about some Levi's for that poor girl ? Oh, and how about books, art, dancing, sleeping till noon, and maybe a nice glass of Pinot Grigio ?

 

The second thing, the most sad to me, is resigned. As in resigned to her fate, which is why I think she's so shy, retiring, quiet, and withdrawn. She just seems defeated.  She knows that if she leaves all Hell will break loose at TTH with just IDGAF Jinger and the very young Joy at the helm, so she grins and bears it. I can't imagine Mechelle trying to actually parent her, ummm...OWN CHILDREN, and within a short time it would devolve into a combination of Lord of the Flies and Weekend at Bernie's...

 

Kids unwashed, uncombed, unfed. Foot and handprints everywhere, someone has their head stuck in the railing again, and the boys are all strangely wearing camoflage and have been reduced to grunts and pointing to communicate. JB is upstairs unconscious because no one brought him breakfast and he just didn't know what to do, and Gramma has barricaded herself in the laundry room. Mechelle is on her treadmill surrounded by so many empty Starbucks cups that she can't see the Duggarpocalypse happening all around her. "I feel like I'm forgetting something..." she says, but can't quite put a finger on it. 

 

So that's all in fun, but probably not all that far off what Jana's absence would mean - with Jill and Jessa already gone Jana is the sad, sole lynchpin that makes that house work somehow. I imagine it's already gone downhill since her sisters left and now she's pulling triple-duty to make up for it, all while Mechelle spends half her time traveling and the the other half in her la-la-la "Meeeeee...!!!" time. Mother Of The Year, my ass...

 

If (when ?) Jana feels like it's safe to leave I feel like she'd want to do so quietly and privately - no bells, whistles, dog-and-pony show wedding or honeymoon. I am an intensely private person, and I see a lot of myself in her. There is absolutely NO video of me in existence, and I didn't even have a photographer at my wedding - just a few quick snaps and I was out of there ! My thinking is that Jana just wants to do her time, so to speak, until she's confident that the kids will be okay after reaching a certain age, and then she'll slip quietly away, perhaps to her own new family, perhaps alone. 

 

If the was any way to do a "It's a Wonderful Life" to show Mechelle and JB what things would have been like without the older girls I think things might have been very different in that house. Like more hands-on parenting, less reliance on that insidious buddy system, and maybe even (gasp) less kids !!!

 

I would love to have Jana say, as her parting shot to Mechelle and JB as she walks out the door, "If having to do laundry for that many kids makes you have a breakdown, you have too many kids, lady..." 

 

Extremely well-said, somepity. PS - loved your choices of wistful and resigned for summing up Jana - the poor kid. PS - you nailed it with Lord of the Flies and Weekend at Bernie's too. LOL!

Edited May 10, 2015 by Wellfleet

[neural-plasticity]

Not sure if anyone else has mentioned this yet, but has anyone else noticed that the Duggar kids aren't allowed to have their own personal social media account until they start courting someone? Josiah made his Instagram literally right when the news came out, yet his older siblings (Jana, John David, Jinger, etc) settle for posting pictures on the Duggar account only. It's like some weird reward for having the potential to procreate in the next year or two. I feel bad for the older kids who haven't started courting yet. I bet there's a lot of pressure on them.

[CofCinci]

Not sure if anyone else has mentioned this yet, but has anyone else noticed that the Duggar kids aren't allowed to have their own personal social media account until they start courting someone? Josiah made his Instagram literally right when the news came out, yet his older siblings (Jana, John David, Jinger, etc) settle for posting pictures on the Duggar account only. It's like some weird reward for having the potential to procreate in the next year or two. I feel bad for the older kids who haven't started courting yet. I bet there's a lot of pressure on them.

Once they begin courtships and enagagements, they become a brand with the potential to earn thousands in deals (People, etc). You need social media to promote your brand.

[mbutterfly]

 

Kids unwashed, uncombed, unfed. Foot and handprints everywhere, someone has their head stuck in the railing again, and the boys are all strangely wearing camoflage and have been reduced to grunts and pointing to communicate. JB is upstairs unconscious because no one brought him breakfast and he just didn't know what to do, and Gramma has barricaded herself in the laundry room. Mechelle is on her treadmill surrounded by so many empty Starbucks cups that she can't see the Duggarpocalypse happening all around her. "I feel like I'm forgetting something..." she says, but can't quite put a finger on it. 

 

 

Why that sounds surreal! 

[Fuzzysox]

Happy Mother's Day Jana!! Here's hoping that you get treated like a queen today by you kids.

[BitterApple]

Happy Mother's Day Jana!!! I hope your kids treat you to something special!

[JenCarroll]

Never thought about that.... They have never (as far as I know, correct me if I'm wrong) said to wait to have sex with the person you love, just to wait until marriage and (to the girls) always be ready to fuck no matter what you're doing or how you feel (Michelle saying, "Duggar women don't get headaches." REALLY pissed me off ). They only ever speak of sex as a dirty thing, or a physical thing that involves no emotion.

Hey, but at least, "it doesn't take too long." ;-)

[Morgalisa]

 

Not sure if anyone else has mentioned this yet, but has anyone else noticed that the Duggar kids aren't allowed to have their own personal social media account until they start courting someone? Josiah made his Instagram literally right when the news came out, yet his older siblings (Jana, John David, Jinger, etc) settle for posting pictures on the Duggar account only. It's like some weird reward for having the potential to procreate in the next year or two. I feel bad for the older kids who haven't started courting yet. I bet there's a lot of pressure on them.

Hmm.  What could Jana post about?  Oh yeah, cooking, cleaning, raising kids.

[Hpmec]

Happyfatchick, chances are Jana or whoever monitors the FB page you sent a PM to never even saw it. It's probably languishing in the "other" folder where messages from non friends go. For anyone who's not aware of the "other" folder, go to messages on your FB and you'll see a little tab marked "other." When a friend sends you a message, you'll be notified. If someone who is not a friend sends a message, it goes into "other" and you will not receive a notification. Makes it super hard to get the attention of someone who is not an official FB friend.

Back to the topic at hand. I hope Jana is treated to breakfast in bed today and doesn't have to lift a finger. She deserves it!

Edited May 10, 2015 by Hpmec

[GEML]

The thing is, we don't know anything about her except negatives. We know she is not in a courtship. We have no indication she wants to go to college. She seems to have only done the first responder, doula, and mission trips to chaperone. She raises the children, but the Josie episode put into clear relief how overwhelmed she is by this (whereas Jill, I don't think, would have been.). She is never shown with a hobby, although the family goes out of its way to TELL us how great she is about so many things.

We know she's pretty. We suspect that she's unhappy, based on the tone she takes on the show in comparison to everyone else and the little bit she reveals about herself in her book.

Everything else is our projection.

[GEML]

This is the thing - even if Jana WERE in a courtship, I'm not sure she would be interested in engaging with people via social media.

[Bella]

Oops - I started to reply about Jana, but this is the Josiah/Marjorie thread. 

 

Taking my thoughts to Jana's thread.

[Bella]

Comment carried over from another thread, where conversation was drifting:

 

This is the thing - even if Jana WERE in a courtship, I'm not sure she would be interested in engaging with people via social media.

 

 

I agree. OTOH, there's no harm in trying. One of the PTV mods who isn't involved in this forum has befriended quite a few reality TV personalities via social media, with two-way interactions, inside info, etc.

 

From a viewer's perspective, I think one of the frustrating things about Jana is that we know so little about her. That gives us a lot of space for drawing dotted lines to various conclusions.

[Mrsjumbo]

Is it possible Jana is in a courtship but wanted to keep it quiet, ala Josiah? That was going on for awhile & no one knew about it. Or Jessa pregnancy. This family releases "news" to the media on their own schedule.

[GEML]

The thing is, they release things on their own schedule, but we tend to know about 90% of the things. Josiah's is perhaps the only one we didn't know, but hey, missing on a 17 and 18 year olds' engagement can't be blamed on us! ;)

[CofCinci]

I figure Jana has a failed courtship under her belt which took place before her Svengali parents realized they can make money off of courtships.

[Fostersmom]

I work in a job were I used to see a lot of names (admission forms), and I've noticed that a lot of young adults who were given 'uniquely' spelled names in the late 80s-90s are now giving their own kids simple names with traditional spellings.

 

So yeah, I'm all for Jinger changing her spelling, and then if she does have kids, making a point of giving them names that can't possibly misspelled/mispronounced.

 

Let's hope so. I worked for the admissions office of my college in the late 90s and there was one poor girl named TEQUILA ANGEL. Sadly, she became kind of an urban legend with the name and as students left or joined the office, we would tell new people about the name and they would have to look her info up to see it for themselves. Bet she named her kid Mary or something like that. 

 

I agree Jinger will be in a courtship soon. I just hope she doesn't accept the first guy who comes along just because she misses Jessa. Jill kinda lucked out with Derick, they do seem a good match, and Jessa took it slow with Ben, but Jinger might not approach it the same if she's lonely without Jessa. 

[GEML]

I think that's possible. If not a courtship, then someone she was interested in that wasn't acceptable for some reason. I also think that Josh was probably strongly interested in someone else too. I say this because he asked Ben if this was his first courtship -given their culture, I think that's a way of asking were you kind of getting attached to anyone else? And Jill admitted she was always wondering, "is it this one? This one?" So the idea that anyone of these folks is snatching up the first person they have real contact with is, I think, somewhat overblown. It may not be what we think of as one on one time, but it's not as if they are simply strangers who are so desperate to mate they go, "oh, decent guy/girl! Ok, I'll take that one!"

[becca3891]

The Anne books! I loved them, and the TV movies. Jonathan Crombie as Gilbert was my first crush and I was saddened to hear of his young death. Yes, I can see the Seewalds being allowed to read them. They're quite G-rated and wholesome, but because parts of them are "relationship focused," they do not make the Duggars's approval list. In one of their books they talk about their reading material consisting of the bible and biographies of Christian people. Because they eliminate anything involving relationships, and anything in the fantasy realm, that leaves virtually nothing. So very sad.

[TaxNerd]

I think Jana has a lot more control than it appears. Between Jill and Jana, if the parents really were only concerned with the workload and the kids, I think Jill would have been denied courtship and Jana would be married off first. Jill toes the company line on the show, and in theory, could move away and be off the show, while Jana barely appears.

I personally hate being the center of attention, and if I were Jana, would wait until I was number 6+ to court and hope People magazine was bored of the family by that point.

Sadly Jana probably has more freedom now than after she is married. She goes to DC regularly, travels internationally, gets to go to conferences, etc. If she gets married, she could be living in poverty in 10 years when Jim Bob can't afford to float 20 families. I think she is taking her time because she chooses so.

[JenCarroll]

The Anne books! I loved them, and the TV movies. Jonathan Crombie as Gilbert was my first crush and I was saddened to hear of his young death. Yes, I can see the Seewalds being allowed to read them. They're quite G-rated and wholesome, but because parts of them are "relationship focused," they do not make the Duggars's approval list. In one of their books they talk about their reading material consisting of the bible and biographies of Christian people. Because they eliminate anything involving relationships, and anything in the fantasy realm, that leaves virtually nothing. So very sad.

Sure, in the Little House books Laura goes out driving with Almanzo, just the two of them (that hussy!) My point, and I do have one, is the levels of absurdity they've reached in their quest to keep their kids "pure."

[RazzleberryPie]

The Anne books also destroy the myth that Orphans are Bad (remember the neighbor who hated Anne, and said she'd set the house on fire and drown the Cuthberts in the well, or something). It also promotes women living on their own and obtaining education, so three strikes, and Anne's out. I wonder what Bill Gothard thinks about red hair? 

 

Anyway..to stay on the Jinger topic, she seems the most at home cooking/in the kitchen, and would probably make an excellent homemaker (meaning I think she'd probably choose something like that as her vocation, even if they weren't forced into it), but she is soooo immature. JoyAnna speaks more maturely than Jinger. I hope Jinger gets to mature a little bit before entering a courtship.

[Darknight]

Once they begin courtships and enagagements, they become a brand with the potential to earn thousands in deals (People, etc). You need social media to promote your brand.

What happens if they break up?

[Fuzzysox]

Jinger has been going on the road with her parents lately-----is she being shopped around for a possible courtship?

[Zahdii]

What happens if they break up?

 

Probably what happened when the Bates boy's courtship flopped. 

 

The girls huge family visited the Bates family, the cameras were informed that she and one of the boys had been getting to know each other in a family setting (never been alone together, even just with chaperone or two).  The boy acted about 12, she acted maybe 14, they were both painfully shy and embarrassed.  The boy was led to the porch where the girl and her family were 'just hanging out'.  She was surrounded by her giggling sisters while the rest of her family and everyone else in the area stood around and pretended not to realize what was about to happen.  The boy was practically unintelligible as her hurriedly asked her if she wanted to court, while staring at her shoes.  She blushed and quickly looked around (for an escape maybe?), before giggling out a 'yes'.

 

Everyone smiles, claps, calls out congratulations, etc.  Soon the boy flees and starts crying, presumably because of the stress of asking someone to pre-marry him in front of all those people.

 

After a brief period of time Kelly Bates spent on her blog answering generic questions about courtship, accepting congratulations on the impending engagement, etc...silence.  Questions about how the courtship was progressing were removed as soon as posted.  People noted that the girls family was also suspiciously quiet, and none of the Bates would appear at the girl's shows (they sang at a lot of fundy events and really made the Duggars look bad).  Eventually the Bates blog was taken down and scrubbed clean of almost all references to the courtship, photos of the girl or her family, etc.  Kelly put up a post saying that the young couple had given it a shot, they were sincere, but over time they prayed and the courtship was off.  I remember I had the impression that the courtship was cancelled by the girl and Kelly wasn't happy over the whole thing.  Even though they tried to portray the courtship as a 'success', it was obviously a dismal failure.  Forcing two young and immature children to enter into a courtship on camera was a mistake.  The kids might not have 'given pieces of their hearts away' in one sense, but the public humiliation was obvious and the young man was said to have been particularly upset. 

 

The Bates were quiet for a long time after that, and when I next heard of them they'd undergone some changes.  Several of their older kids have courted and married, and the initial stages of their relationships were kept as quiet as possible.  Kelly admitted that their idea of a proper courtship had changed over time.  There seemed like less parental involvement in the process.  The various courtships, engagements, etc seemed different for each of the kids, so I believed Kelly when she said the kids set their own rules about handholding, hugging, etc.

 

So what happens if Josiah and Marjorie break up?  The families will probably stop seeing other and each will pretend the other doesn't exist.  Josiah will probably spend the next year at Alert!, either willingly or as punishment.  The Duggars will release one statement talking about how much prayer to God resulted in abandoning that courtship, and from then on they'll pretend it never happened.  I doubt they'll change their courtship routine, though.  The Duggars as a whole don't seem to learn from their mistakes, probably because they don't think they've ever made one.

[MamaMax]

Never thought about that.... They have never (as far as I know, correct me if I'm wrong) said to wait to have sex with the person you love, just to wait until marriage and (to the girls) always be ready to fuck no matter what you're doing or how you feel (Michelle saying, "Duggar women don't get headaches." REALLY pissed me off ). They only ever speak of sex as a dirty thing, or a physical thing that involves no emotion.

 

I would disagree on this one point; IMO, the Duggars and their like-minded freinds build up sex and talk about it all the time. I believe it's a recruiting tool for them.  They are sure to absolutely BAN premarital sex, whilst talking about how fantastic it is to have all the sex you want. Ergo -- kids marry young so they can get into each other's pants.  Then, absoluetly BAN birth control, so they get knocked up and fast. Then, praise them and make the BIGGEST deal that they are knocked up to ease whatever fear (or supress their fear at the very least) and apprehensions they might have about being parents so young.  Once they have a few kids, they are IN for life. Good luck escaping the group when you are 30 and have 5 kids and no education. BAM. LIfelong memebers who will raise their kids just the same because its all they know and don't want to admit that maybe it wasn't what they wanted.

[JoanArc]

They'll NEVER break up. Not with Duggars running everything. 10 years from now, when one or both of them realizes that teenage marriage on reality tv wasn't a bright idea, maybe. But not now while the eye of the public is on them. The courtship story is such a script - catching Si's eye on a mission trip . Come on. They've been a couple longer than we think, and everything was set before the public was made aware.

 

I know the whole teenage marriage concept brings out the anecdata of successes, but I can't help help but think this isn't going to go so well. Even if desires that cannot be righteously fulfilled by a woman aren't involved.

Edited May 11, 2015 by JoanArc

[Literata]

I believe it's a recruiting tool for them.

 

I so agree with all the above. Sometimes I think that because we like and have wishes/dreams/hopes for the kids, we lose sight of the fact that the family represents a pretty scary cult, and that everything they do for the cameras is (IMO) scripted and designed to enhance Gothardism and draw others into the fold.

 

Maybe Jana's craftier than we're assuming, and her refusal to be drawn into the circus is a self-protection mechanism so that if she waits long enough, she won't be able to have eleventy-thousand kids and her future can look a little different from the futures of many of her siblings. And I have no doubt that she's physically and emotionally very, very tired, and that even though she undoubtedly loves her siblings, children hold little allure for her.

[Happyfatchick]

My first thought, Literata, was WHO would see that hot mess and be drawn IN to that???  But then... I've read the comments sometimes on their Instagram posts and guess what?  There are TONS of people who think they are just the be all - end all.  (I don't have a clue what that even means, but we say it a whole lot...). 

[MamaMax]

I so agree with all the above. Sometimes I think that because we like and have wishes/dreams/hopes for the kids, we lose sight of the fact that the family represents a pretty scary cult, and that everything they do for the cameras is (IMO) scripted and designed to enhance Gothardism and draw others into the fold.

 

Maybe Jana's craftier than we're assuming, and her refusal to be drawn into the circus is a self-protection mechanism so that if she waits long enough, she won't be able to have eleventy-thousand kids and her future can look a little different from the futures of many of her siblings. And I have no doubt that she's physically and emotionally very, very tired, and that even though she undoubtedly loves her siblings, children hold little allure for her.

I made a similar post, re: waiting 5-10 years to marry represents like 8 fewer kids.  She is safe at home and there is no temptation if there is no courting. 

[Literata]

Even if desires that cannot be righteously fulfilled by a woman aren't involved.

 

If the Duggars pushed Josiah into a courtship because of speculation about his sexual orientation, I hope there's a very special place reserved in hell just for them. Of course I have no way of knowing if my perception is right, but I've always had a feeling Boob has been a little disappointed in Josiah because perhaps he's not as "manly" as Boob would want him to be, thus the shipping-off to Alert Academy. Obviously, with this bunch, the preferred means of dealing with a "non-manly" son is to marry him off, a la TFDW, with no thought to the woman involved in the union, their future children, and what likely will happen down the road.

 

IMO, the happiness of these children is of zero concern. What IS of concern: the way their life choices reflect on MEchelle and Boob's (alleged) parenting.

[Wellfleet]

If the Duggars pushed Josiah into a courtship because of speculation about his sexual orientation, I hope there's a very special place reserved in hell just for them. Of course I have no way of knowing if my perception is right, but I've always had a feeling Boob has been a little disappointed in Josiah because perhaps he's not as "manly" as Boob would want him to be, thus the shipping-off to Alert Academy. Obviously, with this bunch, the preferred means of dealing with a "non-manly" son is to marry him off, a la TFDW, with no thought to the woman involved in the union, their future children, and what likely will happen down the road.

 

IMO, the happiness of these children is of zero concern. What IS of concern: the way their life choices reflect on MEchelle and Boob's (alleged) parenting.

 

Moved to the Michelle & Jim-Bob thread.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Wellfleet

[Andalusian]

They'll NEVER break up. Not with Duggars running everything. 10 years from now, when one or both of them realizes that teenage marriage on reality tv wasn't a bright idea, maybe. But not now while the eye of the public is on them. The courtship story is such a script - catching Si's eye on a mission trip . Come on. They've been a couple longer than we think, and everything was set before the public was made aware.

 

I know the whole teenage marriage concept brings out the anecdata of successes, but I can't help help but think this isn't going to go so well. Even if desires that cannot be righteously fulfilled by a woman aren't involved.

 

Since the marriage is [likely] going to happen, I'm at least glad to know they've known each (as much as one does in Duggar Land) other for a while, if not been attached/attracted to each other.  It's not much but at least they aren't complete strangers... sorta.