The Lonely Js Club: James, Jackson & Johannah

[Jamiesmum]

I have been reading the stories of former fundies on other websites and there are a few constants in their experiences:

The decision to leave is not easy, and takes a long time, sometimes years even after an eye opening moment.

After leaving, it can take years to change the thinking and habits that have been ground into them.

After leaving, the longing to go back to the known can be strong and it takes a lot of courage to push that longing aside.

Everyone needs some sort of third party help, somewhere to go to, someone who understands what they have been through, someone who they can just talk to.

The thought of never seeing family members and close friends is devastating in groups that shun deserters.

With these things in mind, it would take a very strong personality to cut and run from the Duggar compound. Jana is my favourite (with Jackson a close second) but I am not sure how she would cope with escaping and everything that comes with it and if she would be able to find the necessary resources to make that leap. I could hope that girls she has met at JTTH have previously absconded and could reach out to her.

I kind of hope that one day she just disappears from the Duggar house with no explanation. And apart from the opening credits, her name is not mentioned again. That would be satisfying. Dignified and graceful for her. And in your face and boo sucks to JB and M.

Edited March 27, 2015 by Jamiesmum

[Literata]

it would take a very strong personality to cut and run from the Duggar compound

 

That's why my money is on Josiah. Or maybe Joy or Johannah, or perhaps James. Not, I'm afraid, poor Jana, unless she's much stronger than she lets on.

[ChicksDigScars]

Yeah, "strong personality" is not one of Jana's qualities, and JB and Michelle (especially) have taken full advantage of that. I'm afraid Joy is the same. Among the older girls, Jessa and Jinger are the strong personalities. 

[msblossom]

My thoughts are if, for instance, Jana really does want to leave to pursue a college education other than Crown College, I doubt JB will shun her. He may strongly indicate that she's making an unwise decision that he doesn't support and I can see him suggest that he'll try to make some concessions on her behalf to get her to change her mind and try something less drastic. I believe that JB really loves his kids and he wouldn't estrange himself from them bc they chose a more mainstream path in life, imo.

[Vaysh]

Among the older girls, Jessa and Jinger are the strong personalities.

 

Jessa yes, but Jinger? Past eye-rolling aside she comes across as a scared little mouse these days. I can't get a handle on her personality-wise but it seems like she's been "convicted" a lot lately. Convicted to be less snarky, convicted to be more "content" and not want to live in a city, convicted to have a constant fake smile on her lips... Jana actually comes across as a stronger personality to me, maybe because she's older and obviously the main substitute mother in that family. Jana has a quiet authority (the younger kids clearly mind her without her having to bully them like Jessa), Jinger doesn't.

[gunderda]

The younger ones have a better chance of making a run for it.  The older ones had stricter parents and as we can see in the Duggars and the Bates, the rules and regulations get a little more lax with the more kids they have. 

 

If Jana doesn't want to be on tv much (there was on season where we hardly saw her) I wouldn't blame her.  That poor girl probably has guys trying to beat down their door on a daily basis trying to court her.  She's probably overwhelmed. 

[JoanArc]

Even if Jana doesn't have a 'strong personality' she does have ENDURANCE. Look what she's been through since she was 7. Walking out on the family is probably child's play compared to what she's been through.

[Literata]

I still think there's much more to Jana than meets the eye. As I've mentioned, my horrible suspicion is that she was one of Gothard's chosen ones and may have had to either submit to his advances, or the advances of other gross old men in the cult. At the very least, though, I think something in her past behavior was a problem for Boob and MEchelle -- either she was romantically interested in someone outside the cult, or perhaps she was "willful," whatever the hell that really means. At any rate, sometimes I wonder if her having to stay isn't a way for her to "atone" for whatever her parents perceive she did wrong.

[msblossom]

^^^ I just don't see JB wanting to punish her like that all these years later (if she did indeed do something they deemed problematic). I think it's more that they clearly need her help way too much bc Michelle is too lazy and uninterested in parenting and homemaking herself. And Jana is going along with it bc she is uninterested in the men put forward to her.

[Dr.Scully]

My own personal opinion is that Jana was blanket-trained and switched into the person she is today. I recall Mechelle talking about Jana being a handful when she was a child. It made more sense to me when I realized that everyone always, always talks about what a "perfect" child Jill was. They always talk about how quiet she was and how she was perfectly obedient. I think the unspoken ends of those sentences would be, "compared to Jana."

I think they reference Jill's "perfection" because Jana was not like that. That is, until they literally beat her into submission. I bet she heard sermon after sermon about her willfulness and how she had to be broken so she could be perfect like little tattle-tale Jill. I think that Jana did have a personality at one point, but because it wasn't perfect obedience like Jill, it had to be squashed.

I honestly think Jana was at least mentally, and probably physically, beaten and molded into the person she is today. And rather then be ashamed of themselves for it like they should be, her selfish parents are proud of it.

[GEML]

I've known plenty of families who shun (some a little too closely) and I honestly do not think Jim Bob would shun a child who left. Oh, I think there would be some hard words (and they might include things such as hellfire and damnation) but millions of young people have left with THAT hanging over their heads. That, I can assure you, is the least of it.

Plus, shunning a child would be the death of the show. Mainstream Christians would be appalled, I think, if they didn't allow Jana or Josiah to come to a wedding because she no longer followed their beliefs. In part because every family in America pretty much has that child and "somehow we make it all work" so we'd be thinking, so should you.

[Literata]

 

I think it's more that they clearly need her help way too much bc Michelle is too lazy and uninterested in parenting and homemaking herself.

Oh, I absolutely agree with this. But I think it's so sad that Jana feels she clearly has no choice but to stay.

 

My own personal opinion is that Jana was blanket-trained and switched into the person she is today. I recall Mechelle talking about Jana being a handful when she was a child. It made more sense to me when I realized that everyone always, always talks about what a "perfect" child Jill was. They always talk about how quiet she was and how she was perfectly obedient. I think the unspoken ends of those sentences would be, "compared to Jana."

 

This makes a lot of sense. It's sad, but it makes sense. I just wonder if Jana has ever, ever had anyone she could confide in.

[GEML]

I'm not convinced that Jana and John David were blanket trained. Jim Bob and Michelle were still pretty normal and not terribly different from your average Southen Baptist (in the early 1990's, yet) for me to take that as a given. Three children, even twins, aren't easy, but it's not unmanageable either.

[Wellfleet]

I'm not convinced that Jana and John David were blanket trained. Jim Bob and Michelle were still pretty normal and not terribly different from your average Southen Baptist (in the early 1990's, yet) for me to take that as a given. Three children, even twins, aren't easy, but it's not unmanageable either.

 

I agree about the blanket training for Jana/John-David, but also believe there was serious verbal-psychological-emotional abuse going on, not to mention corporal punishment as well. With all the older kids, from Josh down through to maybe Jinger or so - and for as long as it took for them to "learn their lessons." Maybe as long as 5-10 years. I can easily picture Boob laying on the whole superior-male-head-of-house-and-father deal - it's my suspicion that his own dad [JR? JL? can't remember] was a fairly-stern disciplinarian himself. And I believe Me-chelle was a probably a ranting yeller and screamer before she slipped over the edge into La-La Land and started permanently talking like a nursery school teacher.

Edited March 27, 2015 by Wellfleet

[GEML]

I think the first five children were screamed at and yes, probably hit pretty regularly as well. But that, honestly, isn't that dramatically out of sync with a lot of religious childhoods of that time and economic class (as they were then.). What I think really gets into their heads is watching their parents change on the exterior but still be tremendously controlling to the point where they never ease up - the older the children become, the stricter their parents became, which is the opposite of most American children.

Now the young children are having a more typical childhood - even not being raised by their parents, given that most American children aren't raised by their two biological parents anymore. They (ironically) fit in there as well.

[Micks Picks]

Perhaps I'm mistaken but I thought not long ago Jana had said that she doesn't care to be a part of the show anymore and wanted to go college, Clown college probably, so maybe for music.  I thought we spoke about it here.

[cereality]

I don't know where the "Jana wants to go to college" thing came from -- other than from posters here, but if that's really what she wants or if she's unsure of what she wants but thinks college is a good thing to pursue regardless, I wonder if she'd be "allowed" to go to Crown College now especially since Joseph is there. It's ridiculous that a 25 year old woman would need the "protection" of her 20 year old brother on a college campus, but given how patriarchal they are, I can see JB and Michelle suddenly being more open to the idea of a college campus if one of her brothers is there (notice -- I didn't say they'd allow it; but I could see them going from a "no" to a "we'll think about it.").

 

I know we've said it so many times, but they've done their kids such a disservice. Ok -- they don't want their kids to go away to school bc they may lose their faith and start hanging out with green haired kids and there wouldn't be a chaperone there to tattle -- fine, I get it. But surely Crown isn't the only conservative religious school in the nation. I mean I think Josh even wears the t-shirt of some Christian college near their house; if Jana or a few of the kids want to go to college -- for a degree or even just for a few classes -- couldn't they commute to that school from home and be home in time for TTC and Bible time?? Though I've said it before -- I wonder how much of it is the parents affirmatively saying no versus the parents being disinterested in their kids' futures and not presenting such options in combination with the kids just not wanting anything or pushing their parents to agree to anything they want. We've seen the opposite in the Bates kids -- just as restrictive of a religious family, yet a number of kids have gone to Crown, Alyssa and Michaella have held jobs outside the home etc.; so I don't know if it's just faith that is holding the Duggar kids back or the lack of fire and the lack of interest in convincing their parents that they should pursue something they want.

[Wellfleet]

I think the first five children were screamed at and yes, probably hit pretty regularly as well. But that, honestly, isn't that dramatically out of sync with a lot of religious childhoods of that time and economic class (as they were then.). What I think really gets into their heads is watching their parents change on the exterior but still be tremendously controlling to the point where they never ease up - the older the children become, the stricter their parents became, which is the opposite of most American children.

Now the young children are having a more typical childhood - even not being raised by their parents, given that most American children aren't raised by their two biological parents anymore. They (ironically) fit in there as well.

 

While it might be true that most American children are no longer being raised by their two biological parents in one home, I think it should be strongly pointed out that in virtually none of these other situations are BOTH biological parents still IN THE SAME HOME - just not bothering to raise the kids. The Duggars are extremely unusual - if not unique - in this regard.

[cmr2014]

J'chelle said once that "some of the kids" had ADHD. I think it's more likely that "most of the kids" (and JB) have ADHD. You see signs of this with the many projects that are started, but never completed. I just don't think any of them has the focus or the passion to make anything come to pass on their own.

 

I also think that JB very actively discourages higher education. I think it's part Gothardism, part cheapness, and part his inability to see beyond his own life experiences. He didn't go to college, and he can provide for his family, so I just don't think he sees any reason for his children to be educated.

 

Maybe Jana would like to go to college, but she would be up against JBs cheapness, her gender, her family's culture, her feelings of guilt for leaving her siblings behind, and her own inertia,

[Absolom]

I also think that JB very actively discourages higher education. I think it's part Gothardism, part cheapness, and part his inability to see beyond his own life experiences. He didn't go to college, and he can provide for his family, so I just don't think he sees any reason for his children to be educated.

 

Gil and Kelly both graduated from college and they don't seem as "damaged" as either Michelle or Jim Bob.  I think they're able to relate better to the world at large and felt free to pick and choose with Gothard..  Jim Bob and Michelle both seem to have trailers of issues that they drag through life with them.  Having kids who could outshine him or do life differently seems to actively disturb Jim Bob.  

[GEML]

I think that Jim Bob uses Gothard as a way of keeping his children from getting a real education (higher or not) because, as Absolom says, he's afraid they will surpass him in some way. Lots of fathers (Gothard fathers included) are ok with that and can even take pride in children who accomplish that. But Jim Bob wants his children to be dependent upon him.

[RazzleberryPie]

Re-watch the episode where Michelle summarizes all of their deliveries and early childhood. She has disliked Jana from the time she was IN THE WOMB. Michelle emphasizes that JD was perfect and mellow, while Jana constantly moved and kicked her ribs. Now how she knew which baby was doing the kicking before they were born, who knows, but Michelle has had it out for Jana since before Day 1.

[StaceyNotStacie]

http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2015/04/jana-duggar-engaged/

 

Someone had a little bit of April Fools Day fun :-)

[flyingdi]

http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2015/04/jana-duggar-engaged/

 

Someone had a little bit of April Fools Day fun :-)

I am missing the joke.  Can someone explain why the name Jed Rivers is funny?

 

[StaceyNotStacie]

I am missing the joke.  Can someone explain why the name Jed Rivers is funny?

 

I don't get it either.  I just thought it was funny that they tried to make it look like Jana was engaged.  Of course that probably won't happen anytime in the near future, but I wonder how many people saw that headline, briefly skimmed the article and believed it.

[Jellybeans]

At first I wasn't sure if Jana was even allowed to attend the football game.  Then, I found her at the end of the bench (away from Jessa and Jinger)- which I found strange - but not really when you think about it.  

I don'T know why I care but perhaps Jana is in a long-term courtship but put her foot down to it being filmed or addressed. Jessa and Jinger the chaperones and a football game to watch with her umm, boyfriend. Maybe that's what is setting her apart from the other Duggars.

[ChicksDigScars]

She has disliked Jana from the time she was IN THE WOMB. Michelle emphasizes that JD was perfect and mellow, while Jana constantly moved and kicked her ribs.

 

It's official. Jana is my favorite Duggar!

[Wellfleet]

I don'T know why I care but perhaps Jana is in a long-term courtship but put her foot down to it being filmed or addressed. Jessa and Jinger the chaperones and a football game to watch with her umm, boyfriend. Maybe that's what is setting her apart from the other Duggars.

 

Wouldn't this be great? I have to say it seems unlikely, but it would be just great.

[Barb23]

After the Benessa wedding, I was kidding my son that IMO Jana is the best Duggar girl & she's still available --he better get writing his letter to Boob written quickly if he wants to snag her. I was telling him I think she would be a great wife for him & that he could talk her into going to college & getting a job. He couldn't believe the Duggar's beliefs about that. I explained that they " leave it up to God" as to when & how many children they have but he could change that. He looked at me perplexed & i said it means they don't do birth control. He walked away, shaking his head muttering "Oh My."

[JenCarroll]

And I believe Me-chelle was a probably a ranting yeller and screamer before she slipped over the edge into La-La Land and started permanently talking like a nursery school teacher.

She talks like a parody of a nursery school teacher. And it's completely fake. Something is very, very wrong with that woman.

Edited April 5, 2015 by JenCarroll

[Joe Jitsu913]

She talks like a parody of a nursery school teacher. And it's completely fake. Something is very, very wrong with that woman.

A neighbor supposedly said that Michelle used to scream at her kids constantly. This was when they lived in that tiny ranch house.

[The Solution]

Every time I see Jinger's name written out, I think it is JING-er, with a hard G. I like that better. At least it's not a stripper's name.

[CofCinci]

Free Jinger started because the girl's name is so ridiculous and fun to type.

[GEML]

I totally believe this.

[JenCarroll]

Re-watch the episode where Michelle summarizes all of their deliveries and early childhood. She has disliked Jana from the time she was IN THE WOMB. Michelle emphasizes that JD was perfect and mellow, while Jana constantly moved and kicked her ribs. Now how she knew which baby was doing the kicking before they were born, who knows, but Michelle has had it out for Jana since before Day 1.

Very, very wrong. Something is profoundly wrong with Michelle Duggar. IMO.

[Literata]

I think it is JING-er, with a hard G.

 

Way back when, on the Today Show, Meredith Vieira pronounced it that way.

[EarlGreyTea]

Way back when, on the Today Show, Meredith Vieira pronounced it that way.

Up until last week, my friend thought it was pronounced that way too. Sometimes I look at Jinger and imagine the prettier J names she could have had: Jane, Julia, Jasmine, etc. I'm sure she's made her peace with and, I guess one good thing about attending the SOTDRT is that there weren't any other kids teasing her about her name.

[RazzleberryPie]

Every time I see Jinger's name written out, I think it is JING-er, with a hard G. I like that better. At least it's not a stripper's name.

Yes it is (perfect stripper name)

[JenCarroll]

Up until last week, my friend thought it was pronounced that way too. Sometimes I look at Jinger and imagine the prettier J names she could have had: Jane, Julia, Jasmine, etc. I'm sure she's made her peace with and, I guess one good thing about attending the SOTDRT is that there weren't any other kids teasing her about her name.

I know, it baffles me that they went with Jinger of all things, so early in the J lineup. And, as you pointed out, left so many beautiful names unused.

[truelovekiss]

It amazes me that out of all the J's, there is no Julia or Jacqueline/Jaclyn (there were 5 girls before Jackson, not that it would stop them), but there is a Jinger. I also read it as JING-er, like singer. When it comes to names, Jinger really drew the shortest straw. I could also never understand why they didn't have a Jacob. It seems like it would make sense.

Edited April 7, 2015 by truelovekiss

[jcbrown]

 

I know, it baffles me that they went with Jinger of all things, so early in the J lineup. And, as you pointed out, left so many beautiful names unused.

Maybe Boob is a closet Gilligan's Island fan but they wanted it to match the J theme?

[kalamac]

I've always wondered why they didn't just spell her name Jinjer, since they weren't going with the traditional spelling anyway. There'd be no pronunciation issues (the first time I saw it I was all "what the hell king of name is Jinger, thinking like so many that it was said with a hard G), and there's an extra j in the name that way.

[JenCarroll]

Jeanette, Judith, Jillian, Joan, Jolene, June, Jodie, Jamie?

[JenCarroll]

Jeanette, Judith, Jillian, Joan, Jolene, June, Jodie, Jamie?

Oh right, they do have Jill. :-) Oops. Cross off Jillian.

[truelovekiss]

Re-watch the episode where Michelle summarizes all of their deliveries and early childhood. She has disliked Jana from the time she was IN THE WOMB. Michelle emphasizes that JD was perfect and mellow, while Jana constantly moved and kicked her ribs. Now how she knew which baby was doing the kicking before they were born, who knows, but Michelle has had it out for Jana since before Day 1.

What a freak that woman is. Did she say how her pregnancy with Josh was? The only thing I can think of that would make even a little bit of sense would be if Josh didn't kick much, so she assumed JD was the non-kicker because he was a boy? I seriously don't think Jchelle ever really bonded with poor Janarella. She seems to like Josh and JD more, and she tolerates Jill because she most likely provided a lot of intel on the other kids. Blessa was Jchelle reincarnated, so she kind of got a kick out of her.

[dillpickles]

Free ginger! Oops, I mean Jinger! What if one of the Duggar girls marries a dude with a last name that starts with a 'J'. I see it now, Jinger Jacobson. Has a ring to it.

[truelovekiss]

Oh right, they do have Jill. :-) Oops. Cross off Jillian.

Since we're on topic, I would have preferred the name Jillian, with Jill as a nickname. Same thing with Jessica as opposed to Jessa. Just a personal preference.

[GEML]

Let's keep in mind that this is a family that puts Jim Bob Duggar on the wedding invitations.

[truelovekiss]

Maybe Boob is a closet Gilligan's Island fan but they wanted it to match the J theme?

Imagine if Jchelle found out. That hussy Ginger was pretty defrauding!

[zenme]

Julianna, Jeana, Jade...