S07.E01: Dragonstone

[riley702]

16 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

One thing that makes me sad: I hadn't thought about the possibility/probability of wight Hodor till just about now. :(

And wight direwolf Summer. :(

8 hours ago, iMonrey said:

 Thank you! Ultimately I feel like the entire subplot with the Hound finding this cabin hinged on the audience remembering that episode - how many seasons ago? Three? Four? I know fans can be pretty obsessive about this show but what casual viewer is going to remember that?

Well, they did show it in the previouslies...

Question: when Meera and Bran showed up at the wall and announced who they were, Dolorous Edd asked why he should believe them. Bran then announces 2 battles Edd was at. Why the fuck does this make them who they said they were? Edd doesn't know about the TER and visions - wouldn't knowing those things make it more likely they were wildlings? But he just nods and lets them in. I don't get it.

Edited July 19, 2017 by riley702

[sashabear21]

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One thing that makes me sad: I hadn't thought about the possibility/probability of wight Hodor till just about now. :(

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And wight direwolf Summer. :(

 

BRB, crying forever.  

[DarkRaichu]

One of the guys in band of Lannister men that Arya met said that King's Landing smelt like shit.  When Olenna mentioned it (in season 5?) I thought she was just being snarky.  I do not know why I find it amusing that KL actually smells like shit

I also find it interesting that Arch-Meister had such blase attitude towards WW, even though he believed Sam told the truth about them.  He essentially said WW would pass just like any other threats in Westeros history

[Calamity Jane]

4 minutes ago, DarkRaichu said:

I also find it interesting that Arch-Meister had such blase attitude towards WW, even though he believed Sam told the truth about them.  He essentially said WW would pass just like any other threats in Westeros history

I wondered the same thing, and it made me think that time is too short for Sam to complete the training to be a maester, if nobody else is going to take the threat seriously.  I'm thinking we'll see Sam take off after discovering vital information about fighting the Dead.  Can't picture Sam the Slayer sitting that fight out.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

On 7/17/2017 at 1:02 PM, ImpinAintEasy said:

I think the Jon/Sansa disagreement and later their private discussion shows why Jon inspires loyalty and Sansa may not. This idea that Ned was a big dummy and Cersei is a genius at the game fails to take into account that Cersei is terrible and creates more enemies than allies. She achieved what she thinks is ultimate power, but it will never last, because nobody is loyal to her. Ned ruled the North for twenty years and was beloved, so much so that the North still respects him. Sansa may have learned how to scheme from the best, but as a leader, she couldn't have had worse mentors. 

This in a nutshell is why I'll never think of Sansa as a leader or any sort of startegic thinker. 

Having had a front row seat in how Cersei and Littlfinger operate, she should not by any means follow their lead. It is not even smart thinking, it is just common sense. Instead they seem to be her aspiration. 

Edited July 20, 2017 by Deputy Deputy CoS

[MisterBluxom]

26 minutes ago, DarkRaichu said:

One of the guys in band of Lannister men that Arya met said that King's Landing smelt like shit.  When Olenna mentioned it (in season 5?) I thought she was just being snarky.  I do not know why I find it amusing that KL actually smells like shit

I also find it interesting that Arch-Meister had such blase attitude towards WW, even though he believed Sam told the truth about them.  He essentially said WW would pass just like any other threats in Westeros history

Maybe there was a reason that guy said KL smelled like shit and we spent so long watching Sam clean the chamber pots.

The sewage in KL must have been a nightmare. The ultra rich could prob afford servants to carry away their shit every time they moved their bowels. But 99.9 % of the population would shit into a pot and then maybe once a day, someone would come and empty it out. But the stench of the pot would always be present and the disposal system would cause the entire city to always carry the smell. So even if a big city did a good job of disposing of shit, there was bound to be a lingering stench that would stay with the city all the time. It would make for a rather unpleasant existence.

It surprises me because it's not like there is a lot of advanced technology required to use running water to flush toilets and carry the waste out to some disposal place far away from the city.

But I'm no expert. Can anyone offer a knowledgeable opinion as to just how difficult would it be (or what would it take) for a city in Europe around 1400 to have a functional sewage system so there was no lingering stench in a medium to large size city like maybe Manchester or Liverpool in England?

Edited July 19, 2017 by MissBluxom

[DarkRaichu]

2 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

The sewage in KL must have been a nightmare.

Especially after Cersei blew up most of their sewer with wildfire ;)

[nurse1]

So glad to have my show back!!  Best cold opening!  

Loving all the strong women.....the only down side was the too long Sam work day adventure, I kept yelling  to my TV OK I GET IT!!

And the Hound and his merry men are slowly becoming one of my favorites ( even if I think that they are not long for this world)

And the Night King and his army of dead warriors are very very scary...

Winter is here!!

[dr pepper]

The Lannisibs deduced that Danerys would land at Dragonstorm, but didn't even send a token force? Very stupid. That entrance causeway is obviously designed so that a few archers on the heights could do serious damage to an approaching enemy.

[Macbeth]

7 hours ago, Calamity Jane said:

I wondered the same thing, and it made me think that time is too short for Sam to complete the training to be a maester, if nobody else is going to take the threat seriously.  I'm thinking we'll see Sam take off after discovering vital information about fighting the Dead.  Can't picture Sam the Slayer sitting that fight out.

Sam aint staying long that's why Jorah is there.  Once Jorah learns from Sam about what really is going in Westeros with the White Walkers - Jorah will be hauling Sam up to Dany so she has the best intel.

[RedHawk]

41 minutes ago, Macbeth said:

Sam aint staying long that's why Jorah is there.  Once Jorah learns from Sam about what really is going in Westeros with the White Walkers - Jorah will be hauling Sam up to Dany so she has the best intel.

Someone's going to have to cure Jorah's greyscale first. He's in bad shape.

[Macbeth]

3 minutes ago, RedHawk said:

Someone's going to have to cure Jorah's greyscale first. He's in bad shape.

I don't think Jorah will care when he is on a mission.  But given that Shireen was cured - and the Maesters don't know the cure - not all that knowledgeable - he probably will be cured.  Sam and Gilly know Shireen was cured.

[Constantinople]

8 hours ago, DarkRaichu said:

I also find it interesting that Arch-Meister had such blase attitude towards WW, even though he believed Sam told the truth about them.  He essentially said WW would pass just like any other threats in Westeros history

The archmaester implied that the Wall would keep the White Walkers out when he said

We are this world's memory, Samwell Tarly. Without us, men would be little better than dogs. Don't remember any meal but the last, can't see forward to any but the next. And every time you leave the house and shut the door, they howl like you're gone forever. When Robert's Rebellion was raging, people thought the end was near. The end of the Targaryen dynasty. "How will we survive?" When Aegon Targaryen turned his eye westward and flew his dragons to Blackwater Rush "The end is near! How will we survive?" And thousands of years before that, during the Long Night, we can forgive them for thinking it truly was the end. But it wasn't. None of it was. The Wall has stood through it all. And every winter that ever came has ended. 

[Shermie]

So when the Wall comes down, all bets are off.

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One of the guys in band of Lannister men that Arya met said that King's Landing smelt like shit.  When Olenna mentioned it (in season 5?) I thought she was just being snarky.  I do not know why I find it amusing that KL actually smells like shit

Yeah, in the Middle Ages all cities smelled like shit regardless of their disposal practices. King's Landong would now smell worst than most after Cersei blew up the sewer and it spewed over the rooftops. 

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But given that Shireen was cured - and the Maesters don't know the cure

So who cured Shireen? (I can't remember) And why is it not common maester knowledge?

[DrSpaceman73]

10 hours ago, taurusrose said:

Helping someone take the throne as a warrior doesn't mean one understands the way things operate in KL. Ned didn't want to go to KL because he wasn't a courtier, and probably didn't like all the fawning and pretentiousness. He failed to understand the ruthlessness of the players. He trusted LF because his bitch of a wife vetted him. Nope, I stand by my assertion where Ned is concerned. 

Ned didn't want to go to KL as hand of the king because he knew he would make decisions Robert would disagree with and it would lead to nothing but trouble, which is what happened

And even if he did not know that before arriving, he quickly should have learned the ruthless nature of both Robert and Lannisters and the way things were done in KL when

1.  He learned of Jon Arryn's murder and the reason why,

2.  Robert wanted to have a 13 year old girl killed to prevent a dothraki-Targaryen merger. 

Among other things that happened once her arrived. 

[Clanstarling]

I think the crux of it is, Ned chose Honor (and pride) over life (and believed others would too), and people playing the Game of Thrones chose life over honor time and time again.

[FnkyChkn34]

1 hour ago, Shermie said:

So who cured Shireen? (I can't remember) And why is it not common maester knowledge?

I'm not sure it was ever said who/what cured her, but why wouldn't it be common knowledge?  I'm sure word has spread that she had it and survived, even if they didn't know how.

[Drogo]

33 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

I'm not sure it was ever said who/what cured her, but why wouldn't it be common knowledge?  I'm sure word has spread that she had it and survived, even if they didn't know how.

Stannis went beyond maesters, who I believe were recommending that he send her to Old Valyria; he called in healers and apothecaries from inside and outside of Westeros (I'm thinking people along the lines of Mirri from Season 1, disbarred Maester Qyburn, that masked healer from Qarth) and the combination of all their varied efforts stopped the spread of the greyscale.   Like a firing squad: so many bullets flying, you don't know whose shot did the job.

Spoiler

 

[enoughcats]

1 hour ago, Shermie said:

So who cured Shireen? (I can't remember) And why is it not common maester knowledge?

I'm never sure of the passage of time with GOT.  

Shireen must have been more than 5 when she got grayscale and she wasn't in her late teens when she died.  (I could be so wrong.)  But from the spread on Jorah, it seems to spread fast.  

So, Shireen got it at some age, and then got cured fairly fast.  If we knew where, we might deduce who knew the cure and if it was tied to a place with local knowledge.  

 

eta, Drogo has two great screen captures!

Edited July 19, 2017 by enoughcats

[qtpye]

On Sunday, July 16, 2017 at 11:58 PM, LittleIggy said:

Since I don't know who Ed Sheeran is, I wasn't distracted.

Lady Mormont is still rockin'! I love her. Loved how Brienne gave her that "you go, girl!" look while she was being her bad self. Yeah, Tormond needs to take Brienne to a Wyndham resort before all hell breaks loose. ;-)

I don't want Baelish gone since his character is fun, I love Aiden Gillen, and one of my cats is named "Lord Baelish."

I can watch all the beheading and other mayhem, but those chamberpot scenes I could not look at.

How did Ser Jorah end up there?

 

On Monday, July 17, 2017 at 1:17 AM, TrininisaScorp said:

Mannnn, I missed this show.  It was a good episode...a little slow, perhaps, but setting up the chess pieces nicely.

The Jon/Sansa dynamic really works for me b/c it feels real based on what we know about them.  They were never close siblings when they were little at Winterfell.  Now as adults, they are terrible with emotion and communication and have very little foundation to build on.  That said, couldn't they work out a meeting agenda (LOL) and iron out some of their differences without the other great Northern houses looking on?!  

As usual, Lady Mormont steals the show; I loved see Brienne and Davos reaction shots when she talked about not knitting by the fire.  That's some real talk, girl!  You smash that patriarchy!

I LOVE the costuming in Dany's party.  Everyone looking gorgeous in their cold weather wear.  **I see you Grayworm...lookin' like a snack**  Dragonstone looked so...sad and in ruins.  Can't wait to see what Dany and crew do with it & how being there has affected her.

Arya is a G.  I wouldn't want her mad at me.  Revenge of the Starks.  No Boltons.  No Freys.  Rebuilding the Umbers and Karstarks with loyalists (for the record, I think Jon's call was the right one).  

Personally, I loved the Ed Sheeran cameo.  I would have listened to him sing the whole song.  His voice is just made for things like that.  I spent the scene feeling a bit of fear; this is GoT, so I was concerned they would flip on Arya (not knowing she is a dangerous badass).   

I cannot wait (and hope I don't have to wait for long) for Bran to be reunited with Jon/Sansa.  That's going to be a very interesting raven Jon/Sansa get from Castle Black.

I love redecorated Euron.  He has this Capt Hook swag happening and I love that he beat up on Jamie verbally.  Already liking him better this episode than his previous outtings.

Can't wait to see Cercei get hers.  Build that map, darlin'.  You all made these enemies, so now you all have to live with those consequences.  Jamie and Cercei may be smart and Tywin's children, but they don't have his cool, strategic planning.   I can't wait to see all these short sighted slights come back to bite them.

This is a short season...we didn't need to spend so much time on Sam's version of 9 to 5.  We get it, we get it.  The Jorah reveal and Dragonstone's dragonglass stores were nicely done, but we should have gotten there faster.

Dany's entourage looked amazing.  Dragons, bitches!

On Monday, July 17, 2017 at 10:09 AM, Boilergal said:

Lady Mormont and Jorah must be family - anyone know how they are related?

Seems like Sam will be responsible for getting Jon and Dany together -   how far is Winterfell from Dragonstone?    

When they were doing the montage of Sam's chores , I said not as glamorous as you thought is it Sam?   I was confused on the purpose of the citadel - I thought it was more like schooling for the young devoting their life to be a maester and then they are moved on to assorted locations to serve.  I guess the Maesters that become old and sick, and are no longer able to serve, return to the citadel and teach service to the young.  

I want Jorah to heal, not to reunite with Dany ( I am sick of Lord Friend Zone), but so that he can meet his kickass cousin.

22 hours ago, paigow said:

Why does Sansa think the "stupid gene" skipped her? [or is recessive?] Plenty of dumb branches on the Tully family tree as well...  Sometimes Sansa & Jon is like Forrest vs Bubba on Jeopardy....

The Tullys are really the stupidest family in Westeros.  The crazy sister actually started it all and Cate/Edmure no better. Well, there is always the Blackfish.

Edited July 19, 2017 by qtpye

[Couver]

20 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Agreed. I get as big a kick out of the little Lady of Bear Island as anyone else. But I have a hard time believing these big, tough Northern Lords with their medieval mindsets would pay the slightest bit of attention to this kid. She's not only a girl, she's a kid. That's a double whammy. It's not her personality I find unrealistic, it's the attitude and deference the grown men are paying her I find hard to buy. Jon, sure - he needed her help. But all these other Northern lords? Huh-uh.

 

It's made even more ridiculous because they completely disregarded Sansa when she was soliciting help and that clearly seemed to be because she was a woman. I never cared for this Lyanna for that either. She shat on Sansa for actions she had to take to survive after her family was basically destroyed. As if the only way to survive is with a sword and fighting. Ayra is a much better counter to the traditional ladies on this show than Lyanna who at this point just seems like a forced meme.

[BitterApple]

9 minutes ago, Couver said:

It's made even more ridiculous because they completely disregarded Sansa when she was soliciting help and that clearly seemed to be because she was a woman. I never cared for this Lyanna for that either. She shat on Sansa for actions she had to take to survive after her family was basically destroyed.

Yeah, that was a bitch move. Sansa was what, 13 or 14 when Ned was killed? It's not like she had a hell of a lot of options and it's easy to see why a naive, scared girl would trust the wrong people. 

[SimoneS]

On 7/19/2017 at 0:29 AM, MissBluxom said:

But I'm no expert. Can anyone offer a knowledgeable opinion as to just how difficult would it be (or what would it take) for a city in Europe around 1400 to have a functional sewage system so there was no lingering stench in a medium to large size city like maybe Manchester or Liverpool in England?

There was no sewage system in London until the late 19th century. People would empty their chamber pots in the street or in the back of their houses. Most of the water was pumped from the Thames and all the sewage ran directly back into it. London (and other European cities) literally smelt like shit. Around the mid 19th century, there was "The Great Stink"  when the Thames' level dropped exposing all the sewage. It was so pungent that people miles away could smell it and people would throw up when the wind blew in their direction.  It got so bad that occasionally parliamentary sessions would be held away from London. It wasn't only the smell, the lack of a proper sewage system meant that infectious diseases such as the plague, cholera, etc. and swept through the cities killing hundreds and thousands over centuries. At that time, the medical community believed that diseases were airborne. It was only after John Snow, considered the father of epidemiology, made the link between cholera and contaminated water that his findings along with The Great Stink eventually forced the British government pass legislation and budget millions of pounds for an engineer to design and build the first modern sewer system along with mechanisms to provide the city with fresh clean water. Almost immediately, the smell of the city improved and the epidemics of infectious diseases receded. This is why I always laugh at those British period tv shows. Most people, even among the upper class, had terrible hygiene, were dirty, and smelt rank.

ETA: I forgot to mention the horse shit and urine that covered the streets and would also run into the Thames. Just ick!

Edited July 20, 2017 by SimoneS

[BitterApple]

Not to get too far off topic, but PBS did a docu-series called "Filthy Cities" where they recreated what an actual city would've been like during various time periods. You can find it on YouTube. One of them was medieval London. It's fascinating if you're into that sort of thing, but I recommend watching on an empty stomach. 

King's Landing being an open sewer is a pretty accurate portrayal.

Edited July 19, 2017 by BitterApple

[Absurda]

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Shireen must have been more than 5 when she got grayscale and she wasn't in her late teens when she died.  (I could be so wrong.)  But from the spread on Jorah, it seems to spread fast.  

So, Shireen got it at some age, and then got cured fairly fast.  If we knew where, we might deduce who knew the cure and if it was tied to a place with local knowledge.  

IIRC Shireen got it as a baby, she contracted it from a doll that was placed in her crib. 

 

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I don't understand why Lyanna is a "bad ass" for speaking up but Sansa is an idiot. Not directing this at anyone here, just personal gripe based on what I've read in various forums. 

To my mind, the difference is who they are speaking to and for what purpose.  Lyanna is speaking up against an equal in support of a proposal from the King.  Sansa is publically contradicting the king and arguing against his decision.  Whether or not she and Jon are equals (or think they are equals) is beside the point. 

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You say that as if Jon didn't know this. Jon weighed all the variables and concluded if they didn't fight when they did (when they had a slim chance of success), they would be at the mercy of winter as well as a larger army.  Sansa was dead wrong because she kept the knowledge of a nearby army that would balance the odds a secret and sent for them later than she should have.

Oh, I agree with this.  Sansa was right they needed more men and Jon knew it.  Her constant harping on it w/o offering up the idea that more men might be had was less than helpful in the strategy sessions.  I just chalk that up to Sansa not wanting to have anything to do with Littlefinger unless/until is was absolutely clear there were no other options.  Of course, she would have had to reach out to him long before the actual battle in order for them to arrive in the nick of time, so she might have mentioned to Jon that more men were on the way and he might want to wait the extra couple of hours/day for them to get there.

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Having had a front row seat in how Cersei and Littlfinger operate, she should not by any means follow their lead. It is not even smart thinking, it is just common sense. Instead they seem to be her aspiration.

I think she's in a "fight fire with fire" frame of mind.  The only problem is not everyone is well suited to these kinds of skeeming.  Littlefinger and Varys are very well suited to it and that's why they are largely successful, they are also very patient and willing to play the long game.  Cersei's problem was impatience, jumping from one short term solution to the next and just not being as clever as she thinks she is.  I see Sansa falling into that same mold.  I think she's learned the wrong lessons. 

I think Varys and LF are successful because they were outsiders, they were not born to power or influence so they take nothing for granted.  Both Cersei and Sansa were born nobles to powerful and influential families so they take for granted that people will do what they want because of who they are. 

Regarding the shit smell of KL:  I took that as a comment on how poorly governed it is.  The throne has no money and has been so focused on power, rebellions, wars, etc that they haven't been doing the basic work of the government in running the city.

[Lady S.]

5 hours ago, Macbeth said:

Sam aint staying long that's why Jorah is there.  Once Jorah learns from Sam about what really is going in Westeros with the White Walkers - Jorah will be hauling Sam up to Dany so she has the best intel.

And then Jorah would be continuing his father's fight. I'm sure Jeor must come up as a topic if he and Sam get to know each other. Jorah keeps running into people who knew his dad, and Sam was actually with Jeor when he died.

[taanja]

21 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Thank you! Ultimately I feel like the entire subplot with the Hound finding this cabin hinged on the audience remembering that episode - how many seasons ago? Three? Four? I know fans can be pretty obsessive about this show but what casual viewer is going to remember that?

They showed that scene on the "previously on..." right before the episode started. So this casual viewer knew exactly where the Hound and co were.

[Macbeth]

26 minutes ago, Lady S. said:

And then Jorah would be continuing his father's fight. I'm sure Jeor must come up as a topic if he and Sam get to know each other. Jorah keeps running into people who knew his dad, and Sam was actually with Jeor when he died.

Your right!  Jorah finds out he is/was with the Night's Watch - and the conversation (mostly on Sam's part) ensues.

[proserpina65]

8 hours ago, dr pepper said:

The Lannisibs deduced that Danerys would land at Dragonstorm, but didn't even send a token force? Very stupid. That entrance causeway is obviously designed so that a few archers on the heights could do serious damage to an approaching enemy.

With the end of the Tyrell alliance, surely meaning the Tyrell army skeedaddled out of King's Landing, I'm not sure Cersei has enough of a military force left to send anyone to Dragonstone.

[taanja]

16 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

A dragon?

A dragon is not like a rifle or handgun. You can't just take one and make it yours. Remember that episode where Dany agreed to trade one of her dragons to some fool and he got it on a leash? I suppose he figured he could just give it orders. But after speaking to it, the dragon just snorted and incinerated him by breathing fire on him.

Owning a dragon requires some kind of bond between the owner and dragon. They are thinking creatures. They don't do what they are told by anyone. You need to raise them from birth in order to get them to obey you. Euron may be plenty stupid. I just wonder if he is that stupid?

Why not? It would be a great gift. And Urine probably doesn't know much about dragons. Maybe he's a warg? Maybe he'll just bring Cersei the head? Maybe like Tyrion he'll charm one?  Perhaps he'll form some sort of bond? Seriously? In this show is such a thing out of the realm of possibility?

[CletusMusashi]

Casterly Rock has a sewer system. Tyrion was in charge of it before he became the Hand of (slapping) Joffrey.

So, maybe after the continent gets its shit together, he can organize something to flush that shit away.

 

Not entirely sure how useful dragonglass really is. I mean, yeah, you'd rather have it than not. But does it have to go right into the heart in ordrer to be useful? Kind of hard to really do under batlefield conditions. Archers were effective in combat by using their super Robin Hood powers against individual targets, but by sending thousands and thousands of arows at areas where there were thick concentrations of the enemy. Some would go through armor, some would be stopped by armor. Some would hit areas that weren't covered bt armor. Some would miss, some would hurt, some would kill, either slowly or quickly. But they weren't generally used by saying "OK, I'll shoot the third guy from the left in his heart, you aim for the fourth." I'm sure a little bit of designated snipery took place utilizing the very best shooters, but with a bunch of peasant recruits who are just trying to hit someone before getting rushed, the secret is huge, huge, huge numbers of arrows rather than excesive concern about exactly where they land.

And if the dead get past the wall and start turning soldiers with metal armor, then obsidian arrows aren't gonna do shit.

The best anti-WW weapons, in my opinion, would be dragons (if they can handle the cold,) wildfire (if it can be obtained,) and plain old-fashioned man-made fire. Thrown from catapults, ideally. But I'd actually rather use a plain old torch to try to burn one of them than try to get an obsidian point into its heart on the first try, before either my weapon breaks or the ice zombie kills me.

Although... maybe very, very long torches, used like pikes? With guys in back for refueling, and then everybody has short obsidian spears for if it does turn into a melee? Use the obsidian arrows (or ballista spears,) for re-killing giants. And hope like hell that they didn't turn any bears or mammoths.

It's a shame nobody ever had time to capture one of the things and experiment on it. Learn what the rules are. Because going into a battle with no idea at all whether or not one of your glass blades to the belly or ribcage is going to bother it at all is a huge disadvantage.

Edited July 19, 2017 by CletusMusashi

[iMonrey]

Quote

Quote

 

Kids don't run things just because their parents are dead and they're next in line.

 

but they do, cause she's doing it. 

It's circular logic to say "it must be a thing since they're doing it." That's just rationalization, like if one of the dragons was H.R. Pufnstuf you'd have to say "Well, I guess it's OK because he's there." That doesn't make it realistic. This is a medieval, patriarchal society and the North is no different. Yara admits there has never been a female leader of the Iron Islands; there has never been a female monarch on the Iron Throne (prior to Cersei). There doesn't seem to be any precedent for female inheritance. The one child heir apparent (Robin Arryn) we know of has a regent ruling in his place. I can understand the subjects of Bear Island showing this kid respect but these other, older grown lords from other houses taking lip from this little girl? No. 

It's just "a thing" because the writers think it's cute/funny. It doesn't really fit the world they've built though.

[Lady S.]

9 minutes ago, CletusMusashi said:

Not entirely sure how useful dragonglass really is. I mean, yeah, you'd rather have it than not. But does it have to go right into the heart in ordrer to be useful? ....

Dragonglass has only been used to kill WWs before, so yes, they'd need fire for the zombies. And I don't think Meera killed hers with an exact heart shot.

[CletusMusashi]

So if it hits them anywhere, they probably explode. Good.

[FnkyChkn34]

53 minutes ago, Lady S. said:

Dragonglass has only been used to kill WWs before, so yes, they'd need fire for the zombies. And I don't think Meera killed hers with an exact heart shot.

Question please - there are White Walkers, and there are wights.  Which one are you referring to when you say "zombies"?

[Lady S.]

Just now, FnkyChkn34 said:

Question please - there are White Walkers, and there are wights.  Which one are you referring to when you say "zombies"?

Wights. 

[Mabinogia]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Yara admits there has never been a female leader of the Iron Islands; there has never been a female monarch on the Iron Throne (prior to Cersei). There doesn't seem to be any precedent for female inheritance.

That's true. It makes me want to know more about why Lady Mormont is in charge of her House. Is she literally the only heir left? No male cousins? Maybe Bear Island is progressive. lol I stated in the unpopular opinion thread that I don't think the other lords are following her out of respect so much as some macho need to not be shown up by a little girl. Imagine the laughing stocks they'd be if the only person with the balls to stay loyal to the new King is a little girl. I don't think they respect her. They just don't want to be the ones bested by a child.

[FnkyChkn34]

3 minutes ago, Lady S. said:

Wights. 

Thanks!  Follow up - do wights need to be killed?  They aren't really evil, but I guess they should be killed before they can be turned in to White Walkers?

[DarkRaichu]

6 hours ago, Macbeth said:

I don't think Jorah will care when he is on a mission.  But given that Shireen was cured - and the Maesters don't know the cure - not all that knowledgeable - he probably will be cured.  Sam and Gilly know Shireen was cured.

I could not believe no one recorded a cure in 1 of the books in the restricted section.  Jorah just needed someone with the will to do the research (like Sam) to find that cure.  

6 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Thanks!  Follow up - do wights need to be killed?  They aren't really evil, but I guess they should be killed before they can be turned in to White Walkers?

They are 2 different things:

Wights are the skeletons / dead bodies that the Night King raised / reanimated from already dead people / giants / horses.  As soon as they are dead, they can be turned to wights (as shown in Hardhome)
As far as we know, White Walkers are baby humans (still alive) that Night King turns to something else  

[Couver]

I can't remember. Did the show ever indicate how long Craster had been giving the WW his sons? It would be interesting to try and gauge how many actual WW there are. We've only ever seen 4 together correct? And 3 have been killed on screen (by Sam, Jon, Meera). And those babies would need time to grow....although I suppose the WW could have rapid aging.  I hope the series explores their mythos a bit before they are dealt with. 

[Meredith Quill]

26 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Thanks!  Follow up - do wights need to be killed?  They aren't really evil, but I guess they should be killed before they can be turned in to White Walkers?

Wights cannot become Whitewalkers. As we saw with the baby back in an earlier season and with the CoF turning the original guy; the living are turned into Whitewalkers, the dead become wights. One would assume if the NK dies, all the wights would drop too without any 'force' controlling them but we really don't know either way at present. So for the moment, they need to be killed with fire to prevent them resurrecting again.

[MrWhyt]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

It's circular logic to say "it must be a thing since they're doing it." That's just rationalization, like if one of the dragons was H.R. Pufnstuf you'd have to say "Well, I guess it's OK because he's there." That doesn't make it realistic.

there's dragons and ice zombies and the shuffling dead. They've set up a would where we can see that The North takes honor seriously and there is nothing honorable about disrespecting the head of a house, even it is a little girl. 

[Luckylyn]

1 hour ago, Mabinogia said:

That's true. It makes me want to know more about why Lady Mormont is in charge of her House. Is she literally the only heir left? No male cousins? Maybe Bear Island is progressive. lol I stated in the unpopular opinion thread that I don't think the other lords are following her out of respect so much as some macho need to not be shown up by a little girl. Imagine the laughing stocks they'd be if the only person with the balls to stay loyal to the new King is a little girl. I don't think they respect her. They just don't want to be the ones bested by a child.

I think that's a factor.  Lady Mormont supported Jon when they all turned their backs on the Starks before the Battle of the Bastards.  She's a reminder of their failure in loyalty.   

She clearly has the respect of her own people and I assume that's partially because she's the only heir left.  I also think she's the sort to have taken steps to secure her position among her people.  She wasn't just given power but seems willing to take it.  I don't know the inner workings of Bear Island and so all we can do is speculate.  I suspect that one of the reasons she's so outspoken is because she's compensating for her age.  

Robin is his mother's heir but is clearly Little Finger's puppet.  Robin doesn't have to temperment to lead and Little Finger is so strong that he can block Robin if her ever tries to assert himself.  It's possible that Lady Mormont didn't have any adults surrounding her who were capable or willing to force their will on her.  

[BitterApple]

I don't like Lady Mormont, but if she is truly running the show then the people of Bear Island should be grateful they have someone with a moral compass. Could you imagine a ten year-old like Joffrey being given unlimited power with no oversight? *shudder*

[Mabinogia]

2 minutes ago, Luckylyn said:

I suspect that one of the reasons she's so outspoken is because she's compensating for her age.

That makes sense. She has to shout the loudest to be heard because she's so much smaller and younger and she would have had to work twice as hard to be taken seriously, even by her own people, which she seems to have done, because I do get the impression she is respected by her own people. I know some are burning out on her, but I still like her a lot.

Robin, OTOH, is a useless little shit. I feel sorry for him because I think his mother did some serious damage to him with her coddling. He has no business running his own lands. Not that Little Finger is a good alternative, but at least he won't throw people out the Moon Door just because it's fun.

[Calamity Jane]

Thinking of Sansa - shouldn't she be sharing Littlefinger's goals with Jon?  It concerns me that she's still holding onto information that could affect his decision-making.  LF is a dangerous man - the most dangerous in Westeros, according to Varys - and she knows he's done terrible things, and Jon has no idea what LF is capable of.  Sansa, Sansa, Sansa.  

[FnkyChkn34]

1 hour ago, DarkRaichu said:

I could not believe no one recorded a cure in 1 of the books in the restricted section.  Jorah just needed someone with the will to do the research (like Sam) to find that cure.  

They are 2 different things:

Wights are the skeletons / dead bodies that the Night King raised / reanimated from already dead people / giants / horses.  As soon as they are dead, they can be turned to wights (as shown in Hardhome)
As far as we know, White Walkers are baby humans (still alive) that Night King turns to something else  

Agree regarding Sam and Jorah. 

As for WW, then are we to assume that the giant we saw that looked like Wun Wun was a living baby giant? Definitely not Wun Wun. Weren't there horses too? I clearly need to re-read the books. I don't think the show does a great job of explaining. 

[Dobian]

5 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Not to get too far off topic, but PBS did a docu-series called "Filthy Cities" where they recreated what an actual city would've been like during various time periods. You can find it on YouTube. One of them was medieval London. It's fascinating if you're into that sort of thing, but I recommend watching on an empty stomach. 

King's Landing being an open sewer is a pretty accurate portrayal.

If you were a disease, the middle ages was a great time to be alive.

[Shermie]

I could accept Lady Mormont being a kickass leader if she was Sansa's age (middle to late teens) because at least that would be old enough in this world to have life experience and some authority. As is, she looks younger than Arya, and even Arya was written as a frightened and desperate child at first.

The GoT world has a lot of old men at all levels of society, but women over 20 seem scarce.

[Absurda]

Quote

She clearly has the respect of her own people and I assume that's partially because she's the only heir left.  I also think she's the sort to have taken steps to secure her position among her people.  She wasn't just given power but seems willing to take it.  I don't know the inner workings of Bear Island and so all we can do is speculate.  I suspect that one of the reasons she's so outspoken is because she's compensating for her age.  

Robin is his mother's heir but is clearly Little Finger's puppet.  Robin doesn't have to temperment to lead and Little Finger is so strong that he can block Robin if her ever tries to assert himself.  It's possible that Lady Mormont didn't have any adults surrounding her who were capable or willing to force their will on her.  

IIRC - Lady Mormont inherited rule of Bear Island from her mother who led them in her own right and was a Mormont, so there was already precedent there for a female leader.  Lyssa (Robin's mother) was a Tully so not actually the leader, more like the regent.  Robin would inherit leadership from his father Lord Aryn rather than from his mother.  The individual politics of each place (and parenting of each kid) might impact whether or not they were strong enough to take over.  I get the feeling Lady Mormont was more than willing to take on the responsibility (and may have been taught by her mother to do so) while Robin was never taught to do anything and doesn't seem interested anyway.