S07.E01: Dragonstone

[ali59]

I was half expecting to find Melisandre lurking around at Dragonstone when Dany arrived.  I'm glad she wasn't.

[ImpinAintEasy]

1 hour ago, RedHawk said:

I had no idea that was Ed Sheeran since I don't know his music, so to me he was just a lad with a nice voice in a group of soldiers who were nice lads who made Arya smile for the first time in ages.

I'm not worried about how many episodes we have left.

I thought the bedpan/soup bowl montage was hilarious in a disgusting way. The bowls and the contents did begin to look alike. I thought Sam had lost a bit of weight, and thought, no wonder.

I have only seen most episodes once so would call myself a casual fan, and I totally remembered the man and daughter in the cabin and that the Hound murdered them and took their silver. Also, it was in the "previously on GoT" intro, right? Also, the Hound was looking so odd and guilty that I was certain the two skeletons were the ones he had killed.

The Hound and Euron should get together and fire off zingers at their enemies.

It won't surprise me if Gilly is the one to find a greyscale cure in one of the "forbidden" books. The one she was reading was about dragons, IIRC.

 

The Hound didn't kill them. He robbed the father of what little coin he had and told Arya he wouldn't need it because they'd be dead come winter. 

[Casually Observant]

23 hours ago, Stephanie1216 said:

So we all love Little Lady Mormont. She is given great lines and she has delivered them fiercely. However, has anyone else noticed that GoT is making the Men on the show seem like big dummies? 

Yes and no.  It shows how all people can be idiots or savants.  Just depends where and when.  I'm glad at least it is showing that intelligence and decent behavior can come in many packages.

13 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

If she was married (seems like a chart would indicate that - but I haven't seen the chart), then perhaps the husband took her name. It's been done before.

No. No husband(s) listed.

22 hours ago, doram said:

Or she married another Mormont, a distant (or not) cousin.

No - She didn't marry at all.  The line for spouse or father for all of the children was left blank/unknown.

1 hour ago, RedHawk said:

I thought the bedpan/soup bowl montage was hilarious in a disgusting way. The bowls and the contents did begin to look alike. I thought Sam had lost a bit of weight, and thought, no wonder.

I have only seen most episodes once so would call myself a casual fan, and I totally remembered the man and daughter in the cabin and that the Hound murdered them and took their silver. Also, it was in the "previously on GoT" intro, right? Also, the Hound was looking so odd and guilty that I was certain the two skeletons were the ones he had killed.
 

I also thought that Sam had lost a bit of weight.  I wonder if he will lose more weight over the weeks and suddenly evolve into the dashing soldier who saves the day with his intelligence, hard work and bravery in battle. He will be the hero his father always wanted in a son, but due to his father's hideous behavior towards him and Gilly, be excluded forever from Sam's life.

Re the man in the cabin - The Hound didn't murder him or his daughter, but cracked the dad on the head to take his silver and left the two of them to defend themselves against the marauding thieves and suffer the winter with no money for food or provisions.  He felt responsible for not staying with them and helping them through the winter as he had agreed he would.

Edited July 22, 2017 by Casually Observant

[RedHawk]

Thanks for the correction. I wasn't sure the Hound had murdered the father and daughter or just robbed them of their small stash that was all they had.

[SoWindsor]

I thought Arya did not become a faceless man so how is she also to do this still?

[Clanstarling]

10 minutes ago, SoWindsor said:

I thought Arya did not become a faceless man so how is she also to do this still?

She was trained in the skills, and so far as I remember, there wasn't any way for them to take back the skills.  She simply chose not to join them. So I think she's still capable, and she did have Walder Frey's face in her possession. So it's not like she didn't have supplies on hand.

Edited July 22, 2017 by Clanstarling

[Macbeth]

I think the most important thing about Ed Shereen's scene was the the discontent the Lannister Army had no problem showing even in front of a stranger.

Besides dissing King's Landing - ES was singing a song about Jaime and Cersei. 

"For Hands of Gold are always cold, but a woman's hands are warm."

Phrases I could pick up. "For she was a secret treasure;" "She was his shame."

When the Lannister army is singing about the Twincest - things are not good there.

[RedHawk]

1 hour ago, Macbeth said:

I think the most important thing about Ed Shereen's scene was the the discontent the Lannister Army had no problem showing even in front of a stranger.

Besides dissing King's Landing - ES was singing a song about Jaime and Cersei. 

"For Hands of Gold are always cold, but a woman's hands are warm."

Phrases I could pick up. "For she was a secret treasure;" "She was his shame."

When the Lannister army is singing about the Twincest - things are not good there.

Thanks for giving us more of the song! That explains a lot. I thought the scene was to show the soldiers were discontented and not happy to be fighting "other men's wars" (or women's). Maybe Arya will turn them to her cause. Arya's Army!

I was wrong in my post above about the book Gilly was reading. It was not about dragons but "Legends of the Long Night". I hope she soon picks up a book with a chapter titled "Cures for Greyscale". Sam's wise choice to teach her to read has to pay off somehow.

Is the seat of the Targareyn Dragon throne made of dragon glass? Looked a bit like it might be.

[Katalina]

Quote

Technically the Hound was touched by the Lord of Fire when he was very young (thanks to Mountain).  That burn mark on his face is the proof of that

Thanks for that---I'd been thinking it was just a nasty sibling quarrel. Marked indeed!

Quote

Perhaps all of the Maesters have taken ill due to a food-borne illness...But maybe - a bunch of the Maesters will die and Sam will be promoted to Maester simply because he is one of the last men standing.  

Great observation--makes a lot of sense. Hope it plays out like that.

Well, it's already Saturday evening, and coming to this forum throughout the past week has made the wait for ep. 2 much shorter. See you all tomorrow evening after the new episode!

[lucindabelle]

Wow that was a steep climb up to the castle. Dany reacted like it was a homecoming but didn't she leave as an infant?

 

seems like it would be a huge workout to make it down to the water for a swim.

 

loved the scene with arya and the soldiers. Loved it more there second time when I knew they weren't going to rape her or anything. I don't know ed Sheeran so wasn't distracted. It was nice to see some decent people. Like the dead father and daughter, it's a nice reminder that some in this world are kind and recognizably human.

[Star Aristille]

On ‎7‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 0:59 AM, rozen said:

Hmm, nope still Team Sansa on this one. He's literally handing two well-manned keeps back to a couple of kids who are going to be surrounded by the same advisors that decided to ignore their obligations to House Stark. Like, dude, at least keep them at Winterfell in a very polite hostage situation to raise them to not be turn-coats like their parents. Jon's issue has always been that since *he* understands the magnitude of the situation, everyone *else* should fall in line and fight for the common good. That didn't work when he was Lord of the Night's Watch, it didn't work when he was collaborating with the Wildlings, and it won't work now as 'King' of the North. You'd think he would learn from his experience of literally being murdered by his direct reports for moving too fast, too soon, but nope. He beat the White Walkers, but he didn't beat the humans. Which is why he should stfu and listen to Sansa about Cersei.

 

On ‎7‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 6:20 AM, Timetoread said:

What I really want to do, however, is be the lone voice of support for Team Sansa.  Knowing her audience, I winced when she publicly challenged Jon.  But I completely get it too.  For starters that place is her home and that leader is her brother.  Her father always permitted his females (wife AND daughters) to speak their minds at will.  And to the rest of the attendees she was their princess.  It didn't occur to her that her voice is no longer welcome in that setting.  I also think it was a test, she wanted to see where Jon's mind is as a "King".  Ned was not a king.  The king she remembers was Joffrey and she needed to see that there was no Joffrey in Jon.  She made her point in the "so you are too big to be challenged?" conversation.

So many people side wholly with Jon because he is male and earnest and plays the part of the handsome, gallant knight - now King.  But I think a lot of people are missing the bigger point of this show.  It is not military might or prowess that wins the Game of Thrones.  It is not honor.  The most important thing that Sansa said was that Jon is a very good Stark, but being a good Stark gets you killed.  Jon would be dead today if Sansa didn't use her BRAIN against Ramsay.  Jon STILL hasn't learned to use his brain.  Not ousting or killing the heirs of the turncoats because they are only children.  Ask the Freys about how dangerous the surviving children can be.  Ask Jon himself, felled by a child who didn't take too kindly to the people who killed his family.  Don't miscount your enemy because you don't consider the children to have an opinion on the matter.

And therein lies the bigger point of Game of Thrones.  The remaining power players at this stage in the game are the discounted ones.  The bastard who is now King of the North.  The useless fat kid who now holds the only hope for humanity.  The dwarf who is Hand of the Dragon Queen.  The female Lannister whose job it was to birth heirs, now sits on the Iron Throne. The Stark's baby girl who is now a master assassin and is fueled purely on rage.  The orphaned Targaryen who birthed Dragons and is first in line to win the whole Game.  I've said it before, sword and shield battles notwithstanding, I think Sansa has been the Stark who suffered the most.  Left alone in daily torment in a pit of vipers, and the one to witness her father's death.  The one to receive the reports (as good news) of the murder of her brother and mother.  The one married off to Hannibal Lechter to be raped and tortured nightly.  Why do we act like she has nothing to offer in terms of understanding the evil nature of their foes?  Do you think just showing up with an army of yes men is all you're going to need to beat the Lannisters?  So yeah Jon, maybe, since you've already died once for your honorable stupidity, you might do well to not discount the children who will grow up to betray or kill you and maybe not discount your sister.  You may understand the dead, but she understands the living.  You will need knowledge of BOTH to win this. 

These are the main reasons why I was totally on Sansa's side and really couldn't agree fully with Jon.  He had some good points, of course, but I actually think it's Sansa who understands the big picture more than Jon does.  She knows the treachery, treason, and backstabbing that exists out there, as well as the manipulation.  Even despite having been on the wrong end of it, Jon still doesn't seem to recognize it.

[Clanstarling]

11 hours ago, lucindabelle said:

Wow that was a steep climb up to the castle. Dany reacted like it was a homecoming but didn't she leave as an infant?

Yes she did. And it has been drilled into her all her life that this is her rightful home - and she never stayed anywhere long enough to think of another place as home. It is the place that connects her to her family, to her heritage, and to what she's been told is her rightful domain.

I grew up in a similar fashion (not living anywhere long enough to call it home) and the single place I regard as home, I never even lived in - I would have been born there but history intervened. My mother's family still lives there, and the few times I've returned, just stepping out of whatever transport onto the ground is an overwhelming surge of emotion.  Even watching YouTube tours brings me to tears. So, I felt her in that scene.

Edited July 23, 2017 by Clanstarling

[Mabinogia]

I think Jon and Sansa as a team is what has to happen because they are both focused on different enemies. It they only focus on one enemy the other is going to kill them. They need to think about both enemies. How much would it suck to defeat the WW only to have Cercei's army wipe out the North once and for all. Or to finally end Cercei's reign of terror only to be killed by the WWs? Nope, both enemies are equally important because both are mindless killing machines.

My hope is that Jon and Sansa figure out that they both bring something valuable to the table and can rule together. I think they are headed there. I also think it's more realistic that they aren't automatically there, they have to figure it out. How much time has passed since the show started, in show years, that is? Like, aren't they both still teenagers really? Teenagers who were never trained on how to rule because Jon was going to be a guard meant to obey orders and Sansa was going to be some assholes arm candy meant to spit out heirs. I'd say they are both doing pretty good considering.

[paigow]

22 hours ago, RedHawk said:

I was wrong in my post above about the book Gilly was reading. It was not about dragons but "Legends of the Long Night". I hope she soon picks up a book with a chapter titled "Cures for Greyscale". Sam's wise choice to teach her to read has to pay off somehow.
 

Maester 1: Jorah Mormont is at reception...looks like he is turning to stone...

Maester 2: Throw him into isolation...nothing we can do for him....

[fellini]

I like the hound trying to redeem himself by burying their bodies.

[BitterApple]

1 hour ago, fellini said:

I like the hound trying to redeem himself by burying their bodies.

I thought that scene was so beautifully shot with the way Thoros wordlessly grabbed a shovel to help, and how you could only see their profiles due to the dark. 

[scrb]

Thing I don't get is, why is Dragonstone empty?

Seems in pretty good shape.

If nothing else, you'd think some squatters would have moved in or some minor house interested in "moving on up."

That war room where Danny and her people ended up had a million-dollar view.

[Casually Observant]

On 7/22/2017 at 7:17 AM, SoWindsor said:

I thought Arya did not become a faceless man so how is she also to do this still?

I believe after she killed her nemesis (the waif) she returned to the house of black and white and hung the waif's head on the wall.  Jaqen (sp?) saw her getting ready to leave and said something to the effect that 'now she was No One'.  So I think she achieved the ability to the face/shift thing.  But I wish there was more explanation as to why that act of murder was what she needed to become No One.  Does anyone know the answer?

[The Companion]

On 7/17/2017 at 8:56 AM, SimoneS said:

I can't imagine that anyone in their mind would stay squatting at Dragonstone when they heard that the Dragon Queen is on her way. 

I really thought someone said Dragonstone was cursed at some point, but I may have made that up. Either way, in addition to not wanting to be sitting on the thrown when Dany showed up, you would also run the risk of being labelled a Stannis sympathizer and cut down by someone loyal to the Lannisters. It sounds like most castles/forts require at least some permission to claim. 

 

On 7/17/2017 at 2:16 PM, Absurda said:

Both Sansa and Jon are focused on the threat they've personally seen and disregarding the threat they haven't had to deal with.  

I think this is exactly it. Jon knows that the dead just keep coming. They are a real, physical threat. Sansa knows how devastating it can be to be the subject of Cersei's wrath. I think they are both right, and I really want them to stick together because they will be stronger that way. 

On 7/17/2017 at 6:08 PM, Absurda said:

I don't recall anyone saying this.  ALL the characters (yes, Sansa included) have made miscalculations and mistakes.  Ultimately, Jon was right about the wildlings and the threat of the WW, even if no one believed him.  Sansa was wrong about trusting Little Finger and marrying Ramsey Bolton.  Jon was wrong to disregard hundreds of years of prejudice against wildlings and Sansa was right about needing more people to defeat Ramsey.  I just think when it comes to the largest threat and what to do with the "traitor" families Jon is right and Sansa is wrong.  I also think Jon was wrong to make these decisions without discussing with Sansa ahead of time and Sansa was wrong to publicly question him.  Not because he's man and she's woman but because they need to show unity.  I also think they need to have regular, closed-door, meetings between the two of them (with Davos) to put all the cards on the table and move forward.  Sansa has been keeping things from Jon and it's going to get them into trouble. 

I think there is a lot going on with the traitor families, and I honestly don't know what I would choose in the same shoes. Arguably, the Starks were justifiably ousted from their own home for being traitors. Is it better to install a family they think will be loyal, or to give a family a second chance and rely on the fact that they will be grateful to keep their home and standing? Where do you draw the line? Do you remove the leaders of the homes who refused the call? Is it more likely that these houses will go above and beyond to prove themselves to you because they don't want the rest of the North turning on them? We learned that the two houses who backed the Boltons are also two of the strongest, most equipped, armies in the North. Perhaps by taking a different strategy than Rob, Jon will be able to move past the history that is there. Then again, Sansa is not wrong that some of the other houses may resent the decision. I think that regular meetings would allow them to move forward, and perhaps the return of their little brother will also help. 

 

On 7/21/2017 at 8:00 AM, Lady S. said:

Not to toot my own horn too much but I have updated my geeky show-info character guide, and I would not recommend getting your info from the show wiki or youtube videos. Both are sources which freely mix book and show info indiscriminately, which is not always helpful. (The guy who edits the gameofthrones wiki actually hates the show.) 

Lady S, I am dying to look at your character guide, but I don't dare click until I catch up (i have watched 6 seasons of GOT in about 5 weeks). 

On 7/21/2017 at 0:46 PM, Stephanie1216 said:

No I understood the scene, "even Lannisters can have nice foot soldiers." I don't need that lesson neither does Arya. It was an unnecessary scene just to accommodate a celebrity cameo.

I knew about the celebrity cameo because the complaints were widespread a few weeks ago (when I started this series, heh), and I still didn't put it together when I saw Ed Sheeran. I sorta liked the scene because there is a lot of polarization among the factions at the moment. It is a lot easier to just say: "the Lannisters and everyone who support them are terrible." However, most of the soldiers don't have a choice, and outside of a combat situation everyone is going to have to figure out how to move forward eventually. I think it was the same lesson we saw with the Wildlings. There are good people and bad people on both sides. Arya in particular has likely forgotten that. 

Baby Sam is turning into big boy Sam! I enjoyed the small dose of domestic happiness. We see so few family groups in this show actually making it work in a normal way. It was nice.