S04.E14: Reunion, Part 1

[RedHawk]

5 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

IMO! Katherine looked fabulous when her hair was red, very long and her lipstick was red.  This new dark red and light lipstick makes her look washed out, and the hair looks like a wig and very ordinary.  

And her skin is terrible. 

We saw the opening where everyone including the men were having their makeup done by professionals. Did Kathryn draw the short straw and get the makeup intern or something? Or maybe she insisted on doing her own? She looked so bad, her false eyelashes were a mess.

Edited July 12, 2017 by RedHawk

[pasdetrois]

The reunion veered between depressing and boring. I miss the light witty banter we saw during the first season.

Kathryn did better than the last reunion, but she still seemed medicated. She was slurring her words a bit and her eyelids were heavy at times. Kathryn isn't all wrong in her suspicions - I do think Jennifer and Landon have had designs on Thomas, even if it's just to be part of his social circle. Kathryn's problem is that she can't handle the situation appropriately - she's insanely jealous and controlling. Her mouth gets ahead of her brain and she ends up sounding stupid.

It's possible her dress was the biggest offender - it looked like tomatoes exploded on her.

Shep looked horrible. Who wants to watch that bloated hostile mess?

[ShawnaLanne]

20 minutes ago, pasdetrois said:

...

Kathryn did better than the last reunion, but she still seemed medicated. She was slurring her words a bit and her eyelids were heavy at times. Kathryn isn't all wrong in her suspicions - I do think Jennifer and Landon have had designs 

It's possible her dress was the biggest offender - it looked like tomatoes exploded on her. 

....
 

Oh Landon made it clear with her there is no girl code. No matter what lame crap she pulled out on Andy's show later. She thinks all men are fair game. 

I kind of like how consistently horrible Kathryn's taste in clothes is. 

[iloveit]

Landon is truly awful but she is also all of us - one minute, omg Kathryn, you are a horrible crazy bitch but he next minute omg Kathryn, I feel so bad for you too, you are alone and going through something hard and it's unfair that Thomas is so much richer and more powerful than you!!! And then whoa omg you are nuts!!!

[woodscommaelle]

13 hours ago, bosawks said:

Does it make me a bad person to want Craig and Naomi to break up and then have BRAVO replace Shep as the lead of his new dating show with Craig but make Shep stay on as the "helpful sidekick" and get Craig's dry cleaning?

Sorry folks. We're closed for the day. Bosawks just won the internet. Moose out front shoulda told ya.

[sasha206]

Am I the only one who was grossed out by Andy using the phrase "dick sucked"?  I'm no prude, but it was so unnecessary.

[RedHawk]

19 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

Am I the only one who was grossed out by Andy using the phrase "dick sucked"?  I'm no prude, but it was so unnecessary.

Yup, it was a phrase too far for me. He also looked stoned, his eyes were as red as Kathryn's (eyes and hair).

[ilovetrashtv]

1 hour ago, sasha206 said:

Am I the only one who was grossed out by Andy using the phrase "dick sucked"?  I'm no prude, but it was so unnecessary.

I thought it was hilarious *hides* 

[woodscommaelle]

1 hour ago, sasha206 said:

Am I the only one who was grossed out by Andy using the phrase "dick sucked"?  I'm no prude, but it was so unnecessary.

Not grossed out. Just surprised that it aired. Guess I spend too much time watching MTV instead of Bravo.

[breezy424]

8 hours ago, Major Bigtime said:

She won't be sober by then based on her actions now. An NFL player wouldn't be high enough on the social registry for her.

 

He gets a pass from the judge, because he doesn't fail his court mandated drug tests. Kathryn fails hers, or fails to show up to take them.

Apparently, according to the custody agreement which was signed after the reunion took place, Kathryn was passing her drug tests since April and the custody agreement is retroactive to that date.  I do think it's a fair agreement.  I don't think it's fair to say Kathryn 'fails' her or 'fails' to show up for them. She obviously has shown up and has passed a number of times.  And according to the agreement, Kathryn would violate if she tested positive for illegal drugs and 'abuse' of prescription drugs or alcohol.  That's a significant clause.  If she was an alcoholic, that clause would say no alcohol.  If she had a problem with a prescription drug I don't doubt that would be included.  This custody went into many specifics.

I do hope that Kathryn does get her life straightened out.  It really bugs me that TRav gets so many passes for his behavior.  He's the guy who had a senior state position and went to prison for drug possession.  He's the guy who was a very willing partner in this relationship impregnating a twenty something year old when he's in his fifties.  For me, he's worse than Kathryn because you would think at age 54 he would have a lot more maturity than he does.   Yeah, he has the kids and a nanny and keeps them in the guest house so the front house doesn't get messy.  Geez.  So should he get a medal?  That's the least he should do.

[movingtargetgal]

5 hours ago, psychoticstate said:

Craig and Austin came off best in the first parter.  I like both of them better now. I actually felt sorry for Craig.  He is the kicking post for everyone else.   I think it's cute that he likes sewing and cooking and gardening.  What's wrong with that?  Shep disappoints me.  I guess, by his logic, Craig would be much more manly if he didn't do any of these things and instead banged countless women.   I'm sure Craig can be difficult at times (who can't?) but Naomie really should be thankful for who she has.  Especially compared to this group.

He also does some woodworking right?  He is also very much a cat person.  Craig has a lot of hobbies and interests which is really cool.  It makes him a much more interesting than aging alcoholic womanizers, Shep and Thomas.  Craig is someone I would like to hang out with (as friends because Mr.Moving is a near perfect hubby) and cook, craft and garden.  We could also talk about our cat "children".  I have no tolerance for sleazy drunks and I don't think I'd be able to last more than 5 minutes with Thomas and Shep.  I think most non gold digging, sane and sober woman would agree with me.

[HunterHunted]

On 7/10/2017 at 10:09 PM, Summerday said:

Wow, Shep is an asshole. What exactly is his problem with Craig? I'm not buying that he's pissed that Craig lied about passing the bar. No one gets that upset about a friend lying about their own career. And he can not possibly be that upset about losing the bachelor auction to Craig. If he is...that's just pathetic. 

Can Shep really not understand that Craig not wanting to jump into bed with any and everyone is not a bad thing? Sounds like Craig prefers to have an emotional connection instead of one night stands...what exactly is so horrible about that? Shep sounded like a 7th grader when he was trying to mock Craig for not sleeping with Kathryn. 

I was lol-ing when Thomas was like, yeah, the bars close at 11, but they're open all day long. Shep needs to get it together. 

If you have a chance, you should rewatch the season 2 reunion. Shep has been fixated on Craig and these topics for years. With every passing year, he gets weirder and worse. I wonder if Shep's family is giving him grief about his drinking and slutting and using Craig as an example of a reformed partier. It's so visceral when Shep talks about Craig, especially when Craig stayed with Shep when Shep was too drunk to fly.

Edited July 12, 2017 by HunterHunted

[biakbiak]

What was going on with Kathryn's lower mouth/chin.

Also, did I mishear Craig or did he basically say his professor in a Genders studies class asked him the oral sex/cheese question and it was the most profound thing he had heard. 

[bichonblitz]

13 hours ago, Atlanta said:

She's young, naive and an easy target for someone like him. 

 

Kathryn is anything but naive. 

[Major Bigtime]

Shep treats Craig like shit most of the time, but as I've learned in life... it's a direct reflection of how one feels about themself, in how they treat others.

[RHJunkie]

Cameron and is just cute as a button. She always looks gorgeous to me and it's an in effortless and classy way. Landon, wasn't feeling her look - her hair, make up and dress just all together didn't impress me. But Kathryn, what in the hell was she wearing? Her hair looked like a wig, her make-up washed out her face and didn't provide full coverage for her skin and that dress was just ugly. Craig and Austin have the 'dapper' look down pat. I like that both guys know how to mix it up with being casual and being 'gentlemen' in their style.

Cameron couldn't think of a better description for Craig other than calling him girl-like (wasn't meant as an insult) but I guess a better term is 'sensitive'. Craig has shown that he isn't afraid to try and do things that may fall outside of the realm of traditional male roles, or Southern male roles for that matter. I also agree with Cameron that despite being messy, I think Craig does seem to come from a good place but he deals with his frustration poorly (admittedly, I did laugh when he was so angry that he didn't know what else to do but to punch Shep in the leg, lol). At this point, I think the group needs to lay off him about being a lawyer. Now that he's got all his ducks in order, he can pursue law now or later. Other opportunities have come up and may perhaps delay that dream but given that he's finally done what others thought it would be impossible for him to do, give the guy a bone and let him be for a while before you bug him again about it.

Kathryn seems controlling to the point of delusional yet I think there's still some sense and real intuition in what she says but her personality is just so explosive that can't stay calm long enough to call people out and get them to answer for their behaviour. Not that she's some innocent flower by any means. Her behaviour toward Jennifer was absolutely cold and I don't understand her explanation for feeling betrayed because a crying Jennifer had accepted a handkerchief from Thomas to wipe away her tears. That just sounds ridiculous to me.  I wonder what Thomas has on her that he would make the comment that if he revealed all that he knew that she would never find work again. While I do think Thomas has gotten an easier pass in life given the fact that he's a man and has money and a notable name, I will say that he could have raked Kathryn over the coals given her issues and how that affected their children. I do think that he's been relatively fair in how he's spoken and treated her (at least based on what made it to air).

[Neeners]

Thomas was completely creepy (when laughing) and pretty scary (when threatening). 

[Major Bigtime]

1 hour ago, RHJunkie said:

I wonder what Thomas has on her that he would make the comment that if he revealed all that he knew that she would never find work again

It's what Jennifer testifed about during the hearing. She witnessed Kathryn smoking pot and drinking while pregnant. Kathryn is an addict, and that's what Thomas was referring to. No one will hire someone with a drug & alcohol problem. She stays clean when it suits her, or when she knows she needs to before the judge, in order to perhaps get more money in a settlement. She doesn't do it for her kids, that's for sure.

[iloveit]

I love Cameran but I think it was rude to say Craig acts like a girl. She could have put that in a better way. Sensitive, as someone suggested above.

 

Shep, yikes. If you say I hate that I can't control my drinking and you are drinking 12 drinks in average daily, you are probably an alcoholic. Get help. I wonder if he would be able to hold down a regular job if he didn't have his "mailbox money" to rely on. He is so nasty to Craig. Get over Craig lying to you. Don't act like it deeply hurt you as a friend. I don't think Shep is a horrible person or anything but I think he is kind of a dick (which I guess we are allowed to say on tv now).

 

I give Craig and Naomi six months. "We fell out of love, it's no big deal."  Uh, yikes again. I hope they make it and are happy together bt they may be better off apart.

[MrSmith]

On 7/10/2017 at 9:24 PM, ShawnaLanne said:

Everyone else's reaction shots to almost everything Kathryn said was the best part. 

As an alcoholic in recovery,  114 days! I'm not supposed to remark on other people's recovery,  but Shep's description of not being able to stop is pretty spot on.  But only he can know. 

I just got into this mid season last year and haven't started at the beginning,  but I trust Landon maybe less than I do Kathryn,  she's a real snake in the grass. 

Well, you've got that backwards! Watch from season 1 and you'll understand.

[imjagain]

I don't think  anyone on here gives Thomas a pass. He's imo constantly called out on his crap behavior.  I can't stand Kathryn but think Thomas is equally disgusting.  Every time I read about poor young naive Kathryn I wonder who  people are referring to. Kathryn while yes,  younger than Thomas, I'd never call her naive.

She's not even that young at this point. I have a 25 year old son whose a police officer and niece and nephew (also a police officer)  who joined the military straight out of high school they are in their   late 20s and 30s now. I'm assuming Kathryn is in her mid 20s. 

She's an addict but also an entitled woman. Who thinks she can be rude as hell to people.  She expect people to do what she want. That hasn't change from season 1.

[MrSmith]

On 7/11/2017 at 10:19 AM, RHJunkie said:

My take is that if you make a conscious decision to not have children, it's no more selfish than making the conscious decision to have children. I think both decisions are a bit selfish because it's based on a personal want or choice but I see absolutely nothing wrong with that.  We shouldn't shame others or assume that others want what we want. I feel angry for you that people would be so brazen to put your in that position to have to defend your right to want and feel the way you do about a certain issue. This isn't the 1800s where women were only seen as good for keeping the house clean, cooking and being a reproductive canvas for macho men to sire an heir.

Well, not having children is not the "socially acceptable" choice. My wife and I have known since we were together that we weren't going to have children. Her doctors refused all medical procedures that would have rendered her sterile until she was at least 30 "because you'll change your mind". This is in spite of the fact that I had already had a vasectomy and we'd been married some time. Even once she hit 30, they balked; she was able to force their hand because she was having actual medical issues related to her cycle. My parents were on our case hard with lots of sniping comments and accused us of being selfish. I eventually got sick of it and shut them up by looking right at them and saying that we chose not to have children so I wouldn't abuse them the way they abused me. They've never said another word about it after that. Even friends and random strangers would say, "Oh, you'll change your mind" or "You only think that now" or some other condescending bullshit. I eventually got sick of that, too; I don't recall what I would say to them, but it was rude and it shut them up in a hurry. So, mission accomplished there. The sad fact is that in order to shut people up about this, you have to get rude and/or angry. There's no respect for people's right to choose not to have children.

[bichonblitz]

2 hours ago, Major Bigtime said:

It's what Jennifer testifed about during the hearing. She witnessed Kathryn smoking pot and drinking while pregnant

Wow. Entirely too much Reunion time is spent on this woman.  She should be one of the guests in the temporary seat, then bye, bye,  let's move on.  She doesn't deserve the attention or time spent listening to her finger pointing bullshit.  

Edited July 12, 2017 by bichonblitz

[Natalie68]

3 hours ago, Major Bigtime said:

It's what Jennifer testifed about during the hearing. She witnessed Kathryn smoking pot and drinking while pregnant. Kathryn is an addict, and that's what Thomas was referring to. No one will hire someone with a drug & alcohol problem. She stays clean when it suits her, or when she knows she needs to before the judge, in order to perhaps get more money in a settlement. She doesn't do it for her kids, that's for sure.

This may have been answered already but does Kathryn do urine or hair follicle tests?  

[Major Bigtime]

Just now, Natalie68 said:

This may have been answered already but does Kathryn do urine or hair follicle tests?  

Both.

[Sage47]

The look on Kathryn's face when Jennifer said the gag order didn't apply to her-momentarily stunned, ha! Jennifer has too much class and restraint but she could have destroyed Kathryn right there. You could see her considering it. I'm so glad her baby boy is doing well. 

 Thomas was shaking with anger. He had restrained himself the entire time but finally lost it. He has some major things on her and major resentment about how she has treated those children. Shitty, terrible mother. 

Andy's face showed his exact feelings about crazy Kathryn. I loved all of the reaction shots. 

[Natalie68]

2 hours ago, iloveit said:

I love Cameran but I think it was rude to say Craig acts like a girl. She could have put that in a better way. Sensitive, as someone suggested above.

 

Shep, yikes. If you say I hate that I can't control my drinking and you are drinking 12 drinks in average daily, you are probably an alcoholic. Get help. I wonder if he would be able to hold down a regular job if he didn't have his "mailbox money" to rely on. He is so nasty to Craig. Get over Craig lying to you. Don't act like it deeply hurt you as a friend. I don't think Shep is a horrible person or anything but I think he is kind of a dick (which I guess we are allowed to say on tv now).

 

I give Craig and Naomi six months. "We fell out of love, it's no big deal."  Uh, yikes again. I hope they make it and are happy together bt they may be better off apart.

She could have said he is a renaissance man!  I would love it if Mr. Natalie could sew, garden, wordwork while cooking me dinner and talking to the cats.  Those are the kinds of skills that are super helpful in the real world (cat conversation is nice but I guess not a super helpful skill!).  I guess 2 out of 5 aren't too bad (he can cook and talk to our cats).

2 minutes ago, Major Bigtime said:

Both.

Thanks!

[Sage47]

I hate Craig's greased down hair. Yuck. He is handsome but I don't find him attractive. His personality does nothing for me.

That said, Shep is a real dick to him. He just sits there shaking his head at every word Craig says. He really does think he is superior to everyone, what an asshole. I used to love Sheppie-no more. 

Naomie is only with Craig for a TV spot. Glaringly obvious. 

Why does everyone fawn over Chelsea? That was really bitchy of her to say ON CAMERA that time to Austen, "I thought you weren't going to drink a lot so you can perform tonight." Implying there were times he couldn't perform for her in the past. Nice, Chelsea. I know this doesn't pertain to the reunion-she just bugs. 

I'm not a Landon hater (though I don't like her either) but she didn't look good. She looks much prettier with dark brunette hair. Her hair looked orange-y. 

[Missmissie173]

22 hours ago, TheFinalRose said:

N And also, Landon's dress looked like one of the more lightweight summer housecoats my mom wore back in the 60s. 

That describes Landon to a tee..."lightweight", personality of a "summer housecoat" and stuck in the 60s waiting for Big Daddy to come take care of her.  Landon is getting a little long in the tooth to play the perpetual ingenue.  She should have taken the cushie real estate job her real daddy offered.  But. She "needs" to Roam, Rome, Travesty??? Whatever with the fake website.

ETA: My Gramma Valeria called those housecoats "Dusters". he he...

[RedHawk]

23 minutes ago, Sage47 said:

I hate Craig's greased down hair. Yuck. He is handsome but I don't find him attractive. His personality does nothing for me.

That said, Shep is a real dick to him. He just sits there shaking his head at every word Craig says. He really does think he is superior to everyone, what an asshole. I used to love Sheppie-no more. 

Naomie is only with Craig for a TV spot. Glaringly obvious. 

Why does everyone fawn over Chelsea? That was really bitchy of her to say ON CAMERA that time to Austen, "I thought you weren't going to drink a lot so you can perform tonight." Implying there were times he couldn't perform for her in the past. Nice, Chelsea. I know this doesn't pertain to the reunion-she just bugs. 

I'm not a Landon hater (though I don't like her either) but she didn't look good. She looks much prettier with dark brunette hair. Her hair looked orange-y. 

ITA about Shep. I really want to boycott his show just to show him and Bravo that his drunken slobbering over women during some "search for love" is not my idea of entertainment. My plan is to follow it via the PTV forum and hope it dies after one season! And then I hope he realizes how much he needs rehab. The way he makes light of his drinking problem sounds more like a 22-year-old than a 38-year-old. At his age it's just excuses and avoidance of the truth. He doesn't even see how he contradicts himself with all his "I'm the happiest guy in the world" assertions. His jealousy of Craig is getting weird. Shep's "mailbox money" beach-bum bar-owner lifestyle is doing him no favors. He needs a true purpose or at least a hobby that gives him a real feeling of accomplishment.  

ITA as well about Naomie. I think she and Craig had a sweet romance in the beginning and now she's over him but thirsty to stay for the fame and money. They just don't seem right for each other. Craig should find a woman who appreciates his many interests and hobbies and isn't focused on him being a lawyer.

Chelsea's comments about Austen were so wrong. Imagine if a man said that about a woman, how upset people would be. She's not all that. 

I like Jennifer although I think she does like the spotlight more than she admits. On the other hand, I believe that she has seen the pitfalls of being a full-time cast member and is fine with being tertiary now that she's got her son.

 

[slowpoked]

47 minutes ago, Sage47 said:

That was really bitchy of her to say ON CAMERA that time to Austen, "I thought you weren't going to drink a lot so you can perform tonight." Implying there were times he couldn't perform for her in the past. Nice, 

 

LOL, they all say a lot of inappropriate things on camera because filming doesn't stop. They were at a dinner, they were talking to each other, and it's not like she announced it to the whole group. It's not like she was gossiping about his performance to someone else. She was telling him.  Plus a lot of things end up on the cutting room floor, this one didn't. Seriously though, I don't see what's so wrong with what she said. Telling him to temper down his drinking so they can do the deed later that night instead of him just falling asleep on the bed, drunk, snoring loudly is normal between two people dating. And if there were times that Austen couldn't perform in the past because he was dead drunk, then heck yeah, he should be informed. Should she just lie there and take whatever he gives her?

12 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

If you have a chance, you should rewatch the season 2 reunion. Shep has been fixated on Craig and these topics for years. With every passing year, he gets weirder and worse. I wonder if Shep's family is giving him grief about his drinking and slutting and using Craig as an example of a reformed partier. It's so visceral when Shep talks about Craig, especially when Craig stayed with Shep when Shep was too drunk to fly.

That's an interesting take, and could very well be the possibility. Essentially, they had the same starting point, but Craig got it together while Shep took a turn for the worse. Shep proudly says that he gave his brother a hard time growing up, and that he's just doing the same to Craig because he views him as a friend/brother. I wonder if Shep grew up being the black sheep of the family, and all these lifestyle choices he's making is acting out on that. Like most have said, there's just something so visceral about his reactions to Craig every time Craig reasons out or defends himself. No one can be that angry about being lied to about law school. Unless Shep paid for his tuition. 

13 hours ago, movingtargetgal said:

 I think most non gold digging, sane and sober woman would agree with me.

Amen sister! I still don't see how a lot of women still throw themselves over Thomas and/or Shep seeing as how they proudly live their lives the way they do. Do they think they can be the unicorn to tame these men (blech, hate that concept!)? Are they angling for a spot on the show? If they just want a good time, then sure. But I think there are still a lot of other men out there who can offer them a much better time than these two aging bimbos. 

Edited July 12, 2017 by slowpoked

[Major Bigtime]

1 hour ago, slowpoked said:

Are they angling for a spot on the show

They have to be, there wouldn't be any other reason.

[Atlanta]

1 hour ago, slowpoked said:

 Amen sister! I still don't see how a lot of women still throw themselves over Thomas and/or Shep seeing as how they proudly live their lives the way they do. Do they think they can be the unicorn to tame these men (blech, hate that concept!)? Are they angling for a spot on the show? If they just want a good time, then sure. But I think there are still a lot of other men out there who can offer them a much better time than these two aging bimbos. 

I'm happily married to Mr Atlanta, but can't see why a woman would pick a Shep or TRav over a Craig. I'm sure Craig is thanking his lucky stars that he got things straightened out before he turned into one of them. Yes, he still likes to have fun, but got out of that environment, dried out and finished law school. Once he was removed from that group, he probably saw how sad it all was. Is Shep jealous of Craig's ability to stop the train before it crashed? I'd rather see a Craig dating show if he and Naomie break up. They have to get along with Gizmo and his new cat before they can progress to date two. :D

[bichonblitz]

Just now, Atlanta said:

I'm happily married to Mr Atlanta, but can't see why a woman would pick a Shep or TRav over a Craig.

There's a simple answer for that. Money. It's all about the money.  Perfect example, Kathryn slept with both Shep and TRav (and a relatively short period  of time between the two) but never made it to Craig even though he was interested in her. Not enough wealth for her.  

Edited July 12, 2017 by bichonblitz

[Sage47]

5 minutes ago, Atlanta said:

I'm happily married to Mr Atlanta, but can't see why a woman would pick a Shep or TRav over a Craig. I'm sure Craig is thanking his lucky stars that he got things straightened out before he turned into one of them. Yes, he still likes to have fun, but got out of that environment, dried out and finished law school. Once he was removed from that group, he probably saw how sad it all was. Is Shep jealous of Craig's ability to stop the train before it crashed? I'd rather see a Craig dating show if he and Naomie break up. They have to get along with Gizmo and his new cat before they can progress to date two. :D

Interesting point. Remember in Season One (and maybe Two?) when Craig was out of control partying/drinking/missing work? They were all worried about him and SHEP of all people said that HE (Shep) knew when to call it a night (i.e.: was responsible) and Craig didn't. My how the tables have turned! 

About Chelsea: sure couples discuss that stuff together. My problem with her is-she seemed very aware that the cameras were on them when she made that emasculating comment. I think she likes to take a little wind out of Austen's sails at times and I don't like it. She DOES think she's all that. I wonder how people would react if he told her to slow down her drinking so she could perform for him later?!  It's just...icky somehow.

[RedHawk]

1 hour ago, Sage47 said:

Interesting point. Remember in Season One (and maybe Two?) when Craig was out of control partying/drinking/missing work? They were all worried about him and SHEP of all people said that HE (Shep) knew when to call it a night (i.e.: was responsible) and Craig didn't. My how the tables have turned! 

About Chelsea: sure couples discuss that stuff together. My problem with her is-she seemed very aware that the cameras were on them when she made that emasculating comment. I think she likes to take a little wind out of Austen's sails at times and I don't like it. She DOES think she's all that. I wonder how people would react if he told her to slow down her drinking so she could perform for him later?!  It's just...icky somehow.

Thanks for the reminder about how hard Shep came down on Craig over his partying ways. Shep did indeed claim that he knew how to handle his partying, and now look at him. People in your home night after night until 6 a.m.? Does he actually know most of them? Yes, most are bar and restaurant workers and the usual late-night townies so I assume he knows most by name (and gets free stuff from them in return for his, erm, hospitality) but it must be so gross to wake up to the after-party mess day after day. I'm thinking that a few other people have homes in downtown Charleston with rooftop decks and yet they don't allow every Tom, Dick, and Sally to show up after 1 a.m., revel drunkenly, and trash their homes night after night. Seems to me like he's "buying" friends and afraid to go home alone because he'd have to face the void of his loneliness. 

Yes, Chelsea seems to need to assert some sort of superiority that she just doesn't have...

[scrb]

So much eye rolling.

Did Bravo edit it to make it look like the cast has such open contempt for each other?

Whatever happened to the original premise of the genteel South?

Maybe they've each been around each other too much or Bravo knows how to push buttons.

They gotta rush back to film, though they probably want to show Cameran's baby so they may have to start later.

[AuntDahlia]

In defense of Craig - I've been a lawyer for 20 years, am female and have practiced ever since I passed the bar.  But so many of my fellow women students never practiced law, or quit after getting married or having kids.  I never heard them being humiliated about this decision, nor should they be.  if Craig were a woman on this show and decided she enjoyed gardening, crafting, and having her own real estate rental business instead of being a lawyer - she would not be treated like a total loser.  If her boyfriend was demanding she practice law and get a real job most viewers would be absolutely horrified.   Many couples of means - only the man works even if they have no children.  No one says the wife is a loser.  Why shouldn't a man be treated the same if the woman is the one making the money?  I get Naomi's frustration because they are both young and still figuring out life and what they want to do with it.  I am sure he is inconsistent with what he says to her about his life goals, because he is not sure yet himself.  Naomi needs to accept him the way he is or leave him, or they will both be unhappy.  God, no one should be forced to be a lawyer!  It's bad enough when it is something you are willing to do!  ;)
 

[sasha206]

10 minutes ago, AuntDahlia said:

In defense of Craig - I've been a lawyer for 20 years, am female and have practiced ever since I passed the bar.  But so many of my fellow women students never practiced law, or quit after getting married or having kids.  I never heard them being humiliated about this decision, nor should they be.  if Craig were a woman on this show and decided she enjoyed gardening, crafting, and having her own real estate rental business instead of being a lawyer - she would not be treated like a total loser.  If her boyfriend was demanding she practice law and get a real job most viewers would be absolutely horrified.   Many couples of means - only the man works even if they have no children.  No one says the wife is a loser.  Why shouldn't a man be treated the same if the woman is the one making the money?  I get Naomi's frustration because they are both young and still figuring out life and what they want to do with it.  I am sure he is inconsistent with what he says to her about his life goals, because he is not sure yet himself.  Naomi needs to accept him the way he is or leave him, or they will both be unhappy.  God, no one should be forced to be a lawyer!  It's bad enough when it is something you are willing to do!  ;)
 

I completely agree.  I think part of Craig's dragging feet has always been he has no desire to practice law and was probably pressured intot his by family and now girlfriend.  It's no like he got his law degree and he's working a drive-thru.  Let him try out some things and see what he wants to do. Maybe after doing real estate, he'll want to be a real estate lawyer. I personally think Craig should take a step away from Naomi and find himself.

[nexxie]

8 hours ago, Major Bigtime said:

It's what Jennifer testifed about during the hearing. She witnessed Kathryn smoking pot and drinking while pregnant. Kathryn is an addict, and that's what Thomas was referring to. No one will hire someone with a drug & alcohol problem. She stays clean when it suits her, or when she knows she needs to before the judge, in order to perhaps get more money in a settlement. She doesn't do it for her kids, that's for sure.

I'm sure it's infuriating to think those kids were damaged due to Kathryn's inability to stay away from drugs and alcohol during pregnancy - but you can be damn sure that Thomas didn't stay sober, supportive and by her side during those months of pregnancy. As I've said before, K&T deserve each other - but those babies deserve a whole lot better than either.

[biakbiak]

10 minutes ago, AuntDahlia said:

 I never heard them being humiliated about this decision, nor should they be.  if Craig were a woman on this show and decided she enjoyed gardening, crafting, and having her own real estate rental business instead of being a lawyer - she would not be treated like a total loser.  If her boyfriend was demanding she practice law and get a real job most viewers would be absolutely horrified.   

I wouldn't be horrified. And Naomie and Shep simply asked if he really wanted to be a lawyer and he refused to answer. Neither of them were particularly nice, mostly Shep but I imagine it gets frustrating dealing with Craig's vague answers and the way he reacts when anyone doesn't agree with him about anything. I am still pissed that he didn't apologise to Naomie for his behavior towards her which was equally awful. Hopefully he did it off camera but I doubt it because he never seems to take responsibility for his actions/issues or understand that people can disagree with him. 

I did find it interesting that none of the cast including Craig stood up for Kathryn, heck Landon probably said the most positive things about her.

[Gam2]

I watched the first part of the reunion. Craig constantly sat with his head down and looked really sad and sorry to even be there. I don't blame him. He and Naomie need to just call it quits, he needs to quit this show and do what makes him happy. I'm sure that being on this show makes him some coin but being with Naomie and on this show is NOT making him happy. I have two children older than him and I would strongly advise them to drop both of these things and move along. This is never going to work for Craig.

[Atlanta]

I wonder if Craig would be happy doing real estate law or something to do with animals? He doesn't have to be a litigator. He could be Cam's closing attorney. If he's into real estate investment, that could marry that interest with his career.

[b2H]

@biakbiak, to my mind, what someone wants to do with their life is no one else's business.  Craig owes no explanations to anyone as to his life choices.  He should not have lied about finishing school - for sure, that was an error in judgment.  But as to what is next for him, they can all bugger off.  Unless he is hurting himself or someone else, he should do what makes him happy, as long as he isn't relying on someone else for financial support.

[RedHawk]

1 hour ago, Gam2 said:

I watched the first part of the reunion. Craig constantly sat with his head down and looked really sad and sorry to even be there. I don't blame him. He and Naomie need to just call it quits, he needs to quit this show and do what makes him happy. I'm sure that being on this show makes him some coin but being with Naomie and on this show is NOT making him happy. I have two children older than him and I would strongly advise them to drop both of these things and move along. This is never going to work for Craig.

I noted his downcast look also, especially every time Shep attacked him. Not sure if it's a ploy to gain attention and sympathy or if it's real. I tend to think the latter, as he does seem to have a kind heart despite the cruel words he and Naomie exchange.

[Major Bigtime]

35 minutes ago, Atlanta said:

I wonder if Craig would be happy doing real estate law or something to do with animals? He doesn't have to be a litigator. He could be Cam's closing attorney. If he's into real estate investment, that could marry that interest with his career.

You should suggest your idea to him, and Cam. The thought might not have entered either's mind.

[biakbiak]

1 hour ago, b2H said:

my mind, what someone wants to do with their life is no one else's business.  Craig owes no explanations to anyone as to his life choices.

Have to disagree that freaking out when your girlfriend asks you if being a lawyer is what you want to do and calling her stupid for asking the question is normal. 

[Atlanta]

49 minutes ago, Major Bigtime said:

You should suggest your idea to him, and Cam. The thought might not have entered either's mind.

Doubt they're listening to me. LOL

[slowpoked]

5 hours ago, RedHawk said:

Thanks for the reminder about how hard Shep came down on Craig over his partying ways. Shep did indeed claim that he knew how to handle his partying, and now look at him. People in your home night after night until 6 a.m.? Does he actually know most of them? Yes, most are bar and restaurant workers and the usual late-night townies so I assume he knows most by name (and gets free stuff from them in return for his, erm, hospitality) but it must be so gross to wake up to the after-party mess day after day. I'm thinking that a few other people have homes in downtown Charleston with rooftop decks and yet they don't allow every Tom, Dick, and Sally to show up after 1 a.m., revel drunkenly, and trash their homes night after night. Seems to me like he's "buying" friends and afraid to go home alone because he'd have to face the void of his loneliness. 
 

In an episode where he and Austen argued about what he did to Chelsea, Shep said to Austen, as he was walking away "I got a million friends, don't need any more...". Hmm, I wonder if these "friends" would be the type to stay with him after he gets kicked off the airport for being a drunken loser. I would bet these types of "friends" would be the first ones gone after all his money and booze go away.

[RHJunkie]

16 hours ago, Sage47 said:

Interesting point. Remember in Season One (and maybe Two?) when Craig was out of control partying/drinking/missing work? They were all worried about him and SHEP of all people said that HE (Shep) knew when to call it a night (i.e.: was responsible) and Craig didn't. My how the tables have turned! 

About Chelsea: sure couples discuss that stuff together. My problem with her is-she seemed very aware that the cameras were on them when she made that emasculating comment. I think she likes to take a little wind out of Austen's sails at times and I don't like it. She DOES think she's all that. I wonder how people would react if he told her to slow down her drinking so she could perform for him later?!  It's just...icky somehow.

To play devil's advocate (and I like Austin more than I do Chelsea on the show) - but I personally wouldn't categorize her comments as emasculating since most guys would experience the same issues should they drink to the point where they are lucid. I'm assuming it's something to do with the biology of things but I'm not an expert on the human body so I can't say for certain. Her comment could either mean staying sober enough so that everything is working as it should or stay sober enough so that you can be conscious and engaged later on. I personally didn't interpret her comments to suggest that Austin generally has an issue with performance. Assuming that his response was left in the edit room, I suspect that if Chelsea was in fact referring to his performance in that manner, he may have had some kind of response or been turned off by someone who would say that and in front of cameras no less.