S09.E10: Black Out and Get Out

[motorcitymom65]

Well, after reading so many posts about how children of privilege have no reason to bitch about the sorry state of their childhood, I guess it's a good news/bad news deal for Bryn. Most people always say they worry for her and what will become of her. I guess she should worry, because should she suffer the consequences of her parents actions, many won't care because she will undoubtably go to good schools and have all the material comforts a little gal could want. Although for some reason I don't think that will be the case. Should she run into issues resolving her childhood, in her case it will be all Beth's fault. 

[bagger]

1 hour ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Well, after reading so many posts about how children of privilege have no reason to bitch about the sorry state of their childhood, I guess it's a good news/bad news deal for Bryn. Most people always say they worry for her and what will become of her. I guess she should worry, because should she suffer the consequences of her parents actions, many won't care because she will undoubtably go to good schools and have all the material comforts a little gal could want. Although for some reason I don't think that will be the case. Should she run into issues resolving her childhood, in her case it will be all Beth's fault. 

The bar keeps getting moved. There is no hope.

[robroy]

16 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Seriously. Paris Hilton has 3 siblings. They grew up quite wealthy. However, their parents only nominally tried to raise them. It's the reason that all of the kids except for Nicky have had drug and law enforcement issues. Nicky is the only kid in that family who doesn't have a mugshot.

Irony- Bethenney was a babysitter/nanny for the Hiltons...

I think a number of you have made interesting points on Carole as a mentor for Tinsley. Two things stuck out in the last week about Carole to me- one person making a joke about Carole Single White Femaling her fashion/appearance in line with her cooler friends. I think her personality probably has similar adjustments. The other was when Carole made the comment about Tinsley choosing to move on or recreate her old life. As much as Carole is my BEC person (complete personality mismatch) I can appreciate that she has made big changes or at least conscious choices- new way to dress, moving away twice even if only temporarily, trying a different genre of journalism regardless of significance and making friends who are not carbon copies of her old ones. It made me realize that as much as I joke about 'what does she do other than pass judgment' & others comment on floundering, she is at least swimming. As much as they are opposites I think her and Lu are probably the two that have moved on and could offer Tinsley some decent advice of throwing her life in Drive.

I think Tins would probably rather be the new Beth- the ultimate reality IT girl but not really happy in her life.

Ramona and Sonja are not the two to be around for that purpose. And it has really become obvious that Dorinda continues to have major grief over her husband. I almost wonder if marrying him later doesn't compound this because she probably had more appreciation for what a goo match or great guy he was since she would have had plenty of frogs previously.

This will end the thoughtful consideration portion of my posting and I will returned to the regularly schedule programing- ie, wallowing in snark.

[QuinnM]

Well I saw the ratings for RHONY this week, 1,610 0.6.  So I doubt they'll mess with the format or the players.  They continue to inch up.

[Chit Chat]

Putting aside the Bethenny/Jason drama, I wish we could see Bryn with Bethenny at her apartment.  There are many things that Bethenny does that bug me, but I have no doubt that she's a good mom to Bryn.  I'd love to see their interaction. It's sad to me to see Bryn's room empty.  I'd like to see her in there playing dress up or whatever else she likes to do.  It would be nice to see Bethenny in that light for a change.   I'm just talking about a glimpse of their life together, not putting her in the spotlight for any length of time.  And I say this in a non-snarky way! 

[QuinnM]

Quote

There are many things that Bethenny does that bug me, but I have no doubt that she's a good mom to Bryn.  I'd love to see their interaction.

you get slices of this from her snap.  Bryn talks in the background, you see their crafts, cooking, movie night etc but you don't see Bryn.  Someone asked Bethenny about that on twitter and she said you'll see Bryn when Bryn says that's ok.  In the summer at the Hamptons you see the riding lessons from a distance, you see extra little feet when she has a friend out for sleepover, you see that entire front yard done up like a carnival every summer for a party with Brynn's friends etc.  When B does something with the friends you see the set up but not the event.  So never see the friends but they're there.  You see pool party grill outs with screaming children in the background.  So you get a much better sense of it all.

[HunterHunted]

8 hours ago, lunastartron said:

And exclaiming "Oh, Jesus" in disgust when Jules mentioned recently having a purging relapse.

Or tittering with Bethenny within ten feet of Jules about how "freaked out" they were because she wasn't gobbling down lox at the breakfast she was hosting.

The "it's hard to watch her eat" remark has my vote as the worst thing anyone has ever said on this franchise. You really have to be sick in the head to think that making that comment in front of someone who battled anorexia to the brink of death was okay.

It's inspires no small amount of cognitive dissonance to read the posts about how Carole is to be applauded for trumpeting her beauty because people tear down the appearances and physical features of others.

Yes, people sure do. People like Carole.

It's so interesting to read another perspective. I didn't think the "Oh, Jesus" was said in disgust. I think it was said in surprise. To me, Carole sounded shocked. And it was hard to watch Jules eat because you could tell she was actively struggling with her eating disorder.

You view those incidents as being motivated by meaness and nastiness. I thought Carole was both surprised and uncomfortable being around a person she viewed as being, honestly, too sick to be on the show. Where I will agree with you is that it was rude and insensitive to say those things in front of Jules. So even if Carole and Bethenny were shocked, concerned, and uncomfortable when they said these things, stage whispering all of that in front of Jules was only going to trigger Jules' anxiety. Their intentions might have been benign or good, but the execution was for shit and leaves a lot to be desired.

Similarly, if Ramona was indeed motivated by concern when she brought up the movie and Bryn, was addressing it the way she did going to help Bethenny? No. Then figure out a more thoughtful and sensitive way to discuss it.

Edited June 9, 2017 by HunterHunted

[oakville]

25 minutes ago, ChitChat said:

Putting aside the Bethenny/Jason drama, I wish we could see Bryn with Bethenny at her apartment.  There are many things that Bethenny does that bug me, but I have no doubt that she's a good mom to Bryn.  I'd love to see their interaction. It's sad to me to see Bryn's room empty.  I'd like to see her in there playing dress up or whatever else she likes to do.  It would be nice to see Bethenny in that light for a change.   I'm just talking about a glimpse of their life together, not putting her in the spotlight for any length of time.  And I say this in a non-snarky way! 

I believe that the latest custody agreement has a clause which prevents Brynn from appearing on the show. I think Bethenny still has the right to try on Brynn's clothes though.

[Normades]

12 hours ago, PhilMarlowe2 said:

I know a lot is made of Ramona's trifecta comment, but it does need to be pointed out that this was AFTER the Morocco trip where Luann was very invested in the fortune teller's message that Mario was cheating. Luann was pretty much living for it. In fact, Luann even made a dig at that very lunch, saying something like, "How is your marriage, by the way?" And that's when Ramona went into the trifecta stuff. Yes, Ramona went low when Luann went low - but Luann did go low. Andy tried to call Luann out on it at the reunion and she couldn't acknowledge any of her own part in typical fashion.

I think that fortune teller moment happened because everyone on the UES, including Ramona, knew what Mario had been up to.  This is one of several double standard moments where Lu get nailed and others do not.  Lu and the Count had similar issues, but she was berated until she relented and said they had an "open relationship" that she really didn't want.  I think Ramona had a similar set up, but no one goes in on her to confess.  Why is that?  And then you have Bethenny who hides her relationships, but expects others to spill every blessed detail of their relationships or they are liars and snakes.  I really hate the double standards.  Lu still gets grief over the Count/open relationship thing.

[dosodog]

1 hour ago, robroy said:

Irony- Bethenney was a babysitter/nanny for the Hiltons...

I think a number of you have made interesting points on Carole as a mentor for Tinsley. Two things stuck out in the last week about Carole to me- one person making a joke about Carole Single White Femaling her fashion/appearance in line with her cooler friends. I think her personality probably has similar adjustments. The other was when Carole made the comment about Tinsley choosing to move on or recreate her old life. As much as Carole is my BEC person (complete personality mismatch) I can appreciate that she has made big changes or at least conscious choices- new way to dress, moving away twice even if only temporarily, trying a different genre of journalism regardless of significance and making friends who are not carbon copies of her old ones. It made me realize that as much as I joke about 'what does she do other than pass judgment' & others comment on floundering, she is at least swimming. As much as they are opposites I think her and Lu are probably the two that have moved on and could offer Tinsley some decent advice of throwing her life in Drive.

I think Tins would probably rather be the new Beth- the ultimate reality IT girl but not really happy in her life.

Ramona and Sonja are not the two to be around for that purpose. And it has really become obvious that Dorinda continues to have major grief over her husband. I almost wonder if marrying him later doesn't compound this because she probably had more appreciation for what a goo match or great guy he was since she would have had plenty of frogs previously.

This will end the thoughtful consideration portion of my posting and I will returned to the regularly schedule programing- ie, wallowing in snark.

Dorinda will always have major grief about Richard. As time marches on, you learn to live with it.  But it never goes away.  

Physically the person is gone, but emotionally you always still feel attached to them.  

[BckpckFullaNinjas]

9 hours ago, maggiemae said:

As far as making the bed when a guest - I take off the sheets and pillow cases and remake the bed with the bedspead/comforter whatever so the room is presentable until the laundry is done. Which for a lot of people and especially with multiple guests is not that day with or without help. 

Can't stand Ramona, especially this season. 

Oh that makes sense about the presentable part!

Back on real topic, I never have liked Ramona, come sit by me? 

[ElDosEquis]

14 hours ago, Alonzo Mosely FBI said:

Ramona is cuckoo for kadooz but Bethenny picked low hanging fruit versus a extremely drunk Ramona. Easy fight to pick. 

Telling drunk Ramona that she hasn't been there for Bethenny was to pour the gasoline.  Then throw the match. Then watch the fire burn, sit back passive agressively and wind her up more until Ramona unleashed. First, waving off Ramona's support of her when she was sick as nothing- crisis stuff that "people do for each other" (ummmm not when Bawby was sick and you ignored the Zarins ya hosebeast) was blow one. And on and on. When  drunk Ramona lashed back with very salient points Bethennys mouth couldn't rat at a tat back fast enough she went for physical filth with that spread eagle Vagina Rockette move. Using that move in an argument clearly was not her first rodeo, wonder who else she's thrown that one at to deflect a convo she didn't like? 

That and being filmed in her bra and trousers with her bolt ons jiggling after the fight was like an tantruming exhibitionist got into Romper Room racing for the fire exit. Was she changing clothing or like those fugitive stand off guys on COPS who come out of the meth lab trailer with no shirt ? Or acting out blindly to show she's skinnier than Ramona so she wins ? IDK. But it was a lengthy clothing change on camera and I found it bizarre. 

And then she ran away....... Purrs to Dorinda she had a wonderful time then says she's never fucking coming back here again. 

The oddest thing I found was that Bethenny smiles and looks the most content when she is mid knock down drag out fight. Twisted. 

The reason behind that?

Beffy operates well when she controls the situation/conversation.

She is at her best when she is being inappropriate and when she tilts the situation off of level? She can dictate the direction the convo takes.

The more she keeps her 'adversary' off balance? The better for her.

There is NOTHING remotely funny, attractive or endearing about a woman who cannot monitor/measure her mouth - not every incident in your life has to do with a vulgar comparison to genitals.

Don't get me wrong, I like a woman who can throw a 'fuck' into a convo or has a dirty joke or two in her handbag - it's beffy's inability to read the room and about how her quips are going to be taken by the people she is with.

------

Most Guys/men DON'T want to meet a woman and within the first three minutes get assaulted with a 'dick/vagina' joke or reference.

And what about her 'sharing' her personal/intimate problems with the planet?

I can only imagine the horror her driver must have gone thru driving a bleeding, crusty vagina around and then to be handed a stained pillow and asked to dispose of it?

For Fuck's Sake! Have a little pride in your being?

-------------

Beffy has no filter.

She tries to get people to believe that her blurting out some kind statement - complete with the appropriate epithet - is merely 'being honest/telling it like it is'.

Nope, it's merely a flaw (Grand Canyon Sized?) in her personality. She cannot take a second to think about how her comments are going to be processed by the people around her - that and her responses are so wildly vulgar at times - she only has herself to blame for being looked at as some unbalanced asshole that says has the penchant for saying the first thing that pops into her reptilian mind.

She reminds me of the a kid who runs in the middle of the pack and finds out that if she yells DICK! or VAGINA! really loud, people will turn and look at her -she becomes a celebrity for doing it - so it becomes her go-to behavior.

The Ramonster was totally right.

Beth has no friends or the prospect of any kind of happiness in her life because she lives in the past and is a prisoner of her own fucked up mind and the games that go on inside.

Even Schleprock had a better outlook that this bitch.

[lunastartron]

56 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

It's so interesting to read another perspective. I didn't think the "Oh, Jesus" was said in disgust. I think it was said in surprise. To me, Carole sounded shocked. And it was hard to watch Jules eat because you could tell she was actively struggling with her eating disorder.

You view those incidents as being motivated by meaness and nastiness. I thought Carole was both surprised and uncomfortable being around a person she viewed as being, honestly, too sick to be on the show. Where I will agree with you is that it was rude and insensitive to say those things in front of Jules. So even if Carole and Bethenny were shocked, concerned, and uncomfortable when they said these things, stage whispering all of that in front of Jules was only going to trigger Jules' anxiety. Their intentions might have been benign or good, but the execution was for shit and leaves a lot to be desired.

Similarly, if Ramona was indeed motivated by concern when she brought up the movie and Bryn, was addressing it the way she did going to help Bethenny? No. Then figure out a more thoughtful and sensitive way to discuss it.

Taking my reply to Jules's thread because it's pretty lengthy. I'm admittedly biased against Carole but I still think her statements during that entire arc were odious to the point of moral deviance.

Edited June 9, 2017 by lunastartron

[rhys]

Hunted, thank you for your post about the "oh Jesus" comment. I, too, found it more of "oh, no you backslid? That's awful."

Apropos of not much, I've been curious as to why Carole & Tinsley use their married names. I'm guessing those names have/had some juice.

[NYCNJbear06]

Finally able to catch the episode and was not ready for the shit show that it was Lordy Ramona.  This has to be something other than alcohol right?  Maybe meds and alcohol?

 

Beth running away – I don’t see B’s exit as “running” from the argument.  The argument ran its course in the living room and both walked away from it.  I agree with B deciding to leave.  I wouldn’t want to be there either. For what?  Another round of argument with a drunk woman or worse the rambling apology of a drunk woman.  Thanks but no thanks, exit stage right.

A lot has been said about B telling Dorinda she had a great time but in her talking head the opposite.  This I also agree with.  Why would B tell D in that moment – Hey this weekend sucked!  What would be the point of telling the host, who already feels bad about the turn of events, something distressing?  Out of politeness to the host I would have done the same thing.  A lil white lie in this instance is OK with me. 

Sonja – Dorinda is truly the ultimate host because if that was me and Sonja came down stairs in the lingerie that my husband gave me (stretching it out) that she did not ask permission to wear, knowing how sentimental D still feels about her deceased husband, I would have smacked the shit out of her right there on camera.  And probably another good smack because she clearly was going through her hosts things.  That shows how classless she is. UGH.

Beth – My take on the “you are not a good friend” statement is that 1) I agree Ramona has not been a good friend but neither has B 2) I think B was making that statement from the perspective at looking at the entirety of their friendship and the lows and highs, one of the lows being the BK Bridge convo and the high being when R was there for her during her illness and coming to that conclusion.  I also think she is right that R is jealous of her.

RAMONA – part of where she lost me was the whole you had sex on camera on a waterbed with another woman with your boobs out.  Ummm unless I am missing something she was talking about a movie that B was shooting sooooo  there wasn’t real live sex it was an acting gig were she was performing.  So by Ramona’s standards ALL of the sex scenes in movies the actresses are harlots.  What really sealed it for me for the jealousy thing was when R was going on discounting her success, saying that she earned it on her back and how she is a real business woman etc and I felt bad when R mentioned her 10,000 cases of wine sold .  Don’t get me wrong, that is commendable BUT Skinny Girl, love it or hate it, is in a different league than R’s Pinot vanity project.   The oddest turn was the drunken spiral of Mario and her marriage collapsing.   I think right there was ground zero for Ramona’s issues. Mario leaving her has unraveled her and until then we didn’t see how much.  Ramona needs help and its quickly getting to the Kelly CrazyIsland level if not already there. 

[Normades]

13 minutes ago, NYCNJbear06 said:

Sonja – Dorinda is truly the ultimate host because if that was me and Sonja came down stairs in the lingerie that my husband gave me (stretching it out) that she did not ask permission to wear, knowing how sentimental D still feels about her deceased husband, I would have smacked the shit out of her right there on camera.  And probably another good smack because she clearly was going through her hosts things.  That shows how classless she is. UGH.

 

Dorinda's comments on the quick pass to Sonja's Holland Tunnel keep running through my mind.  I wonder if she just burned that lingerie after it went THERE!

[Martinigirl]

21 hours ago, Natalie68 said:

No it looked like a grit your teeth kinda laugh.  I am not sure if it was because she was really worried or if it was more of a great, more fodder for others type of laugh.  I am thinking the later cause I still think she doesn't care about what she doesn't know about.

Def a grit your teeth kinda smile and laugh......until she saw the helicopter.....then all was forgiven and wonderful.  

[NYCNJbear06]

And that one lil clip of Jill shows me that she hasn’t changed an iota.  Jill is celebrity/fame addict.  She misses the drama and “celebrity” that comes from being on the show.  Jill likes to be associated with famous and wealthy people.  People that because of her association with them gives her the cache she desires.   I almost choked on my drink when she said that she wouldn’t mind connecting with B again, umm really gurl? That ship has sailed.  And further proof, to me, that it’s all about the proximity to wealth. She gets off on feeling important and her “addiction” to fame is so great that even for that she would be willing to kiss up to B for a hit.  Sad.    

[Mozelle]

10 hours ago, diadochokinesis said:

It just comes down to a respect thing.  It shows that Ramona and Sonja have absolutely no respect for Dorinda.  They don't care about anybody but themselves. 

Exactly!  We are brought up to put ourselves down and it is horrible!  If a woman says, "You know what?  I'm beautiful!" then there will be 10 women behind her waiting to tear her down. We have got to change, as a society, to support women more and stop the catty BS. 

Like I said, we are conditioned to put ourselves down by society. If you dare say you are pretty or whatever, there will be people waiting to tear you down.  

I'm confused. What is the criticism?  That she had a mic pack attached to her bra? That's the easiest place to attach it. You can also have a strap that goes around your waist to attach it to but it chafes and is uncomfortable. Attaching it to your bra usually stretches out the bra but that bra didn't seem to fit that well anyways. 

Not only women, but men will gladly line up to tear women down for their looks as well. You see it on social media. There have also been women who've done these (anecdotal) experiments while online dating. A guy will message a woman and tell her he thinks she's beautiful and "OMG! You're so fine!" When the woman agrees--"I think so, too"--then he gets pissed off. Like, to the point where he's cussing in response or calling her conceited and telling her all she has to do is say "Thank you."

36 minutes ago, rhys said:

Hunted, thank you for your post about the "oh Jesus" comment. I, too, found it more of "oh, no you backslid? That's awful."

Apropos of not much, I've been curious as to why Carole & Tinsley use their married names. I'm guessing those names have/had some juice.

I think in the case of Carole, it's that she never divorced but rather became widowed. And having never remarried and not looking to remarry, she probably doesn't feel the need to go back to her maiden name. When my mother and father split, I was about 6 years old. My mom kept my dad's last name up until the point she remarried my stepdad, and that was when I was almost 17 and they'd been together for a couple years at that point. 

[Baltimore Betty]

13 minutes ago, Martinigirl said:

Def a grit your teeth kinda smile and laugh......until she saw the helicopter.....then all was forgiven and wonderful.  

Who paid for the helicopter?  There is a chance that Tom will have his hall passes and get Lu to pay for things, his lifestyle will improve greatly.

[Martinigirl]

21 minutes ago, NYCNJbear06 said:

And that one lil clip of Jill shows me that she hasn’t changed an iota.  Jill is celebrity/fame addict.  She misses the drama and “celebrity” that comes from being on the show.  Jill likes to be associated with famous and wealthy people.  People that because of her association with them gives her the cache she desires.   I almost choked on my drink when she said that she wouldn’t mind connecting with B again, umm really gurl? That ship has sailed.  And further proof, to me, that it’s all about the proximity to wealth. She gets off on feeling important and her “addiction” to fame is so great that even for that she would be willing to kiss up to B for a hit.  Sad.    

I loved the flashbacks of Jill...reminding us who she is and how she hasn't changed. Jealous, mean and just plain nasty.

[Juliegirlj]

Is there something in the water at Dorinda's home in the Berkshires?! First Bethenny at Luann and now Ramona at Bethenny...

Sonja went from being an amusing wackadoo to being rude, and hypocritical . She berates Tinsley for asking Sonja's assistant to answer the door, yet, as a guest in Dorinda's home, she rummages through her things,and helps herself to clothing that was obviously packed away carefully. 

Bethenny's change in demeanor during Ramona's drunken, crazy rant makes me think she may suspect that most people dislike her and are jealous. Even though she is being verbally attacked It's as if she is being proven right - there was a calm smugness about her . I also think she loves to be the martyr. 

Carole looked great in that artwork. What the frick is a " sexy salad"?! Adam was drizzling something from a jar over the salads.....?! 

Edited June 9, 2017 by Juliegirlj

[robroy]

1 hour ago, ElDosEquis said:

The reason behind that?

Beffy operates well when she controls the situation/conversation.

She is at her best when she is being inappropriate and when she tilts the situation off of level? She can dictate the direction the convo takes.

The more she keeps her 'adversary' off balance? The better for her.

There is NOTHING remotely funny, attractive or endearing about a woman who cannot monitor/measure her mouth - not every incident in your life has to do with a vulgar comparison to genitals.

Don't get me wrong, I like a woman who can throw a 'fuck' into a convo or has a dirty joke or two in her handbag - it's beffy's inability to read the room and about how her quips are going to be taken by the people she is with.

This x 100. Bethenney is like a lot of addicts/children of addicts. She needs conflict and drama because that is where she is comfortable. Or more precisely where others are not. So she will poor mouth, bad mouth, be inappropriate or totally ingratiate herself to pull people into her drama or throw their normal bearings off course. Its why all her relationships burn brightly and burn out. Since she has fame and fortune she has the added benefit of people wwilling to reinforce her behavior.

She is a lot like out current president in terms of personal behavior and method of controlling a situation/conversation. Just  don't tell Carole...

[PhilMarlowe2]

2 hours ago, Normades said:

I think that fortune teller moment happened because everyone on the UES, including Ramona, knew what Mario had been up to.  This is one of several double standard moments where Lu get nailed and others do not.  Lu and the Count had similar issues, but she was berated until she relented and said they had an "open relationship" that she really didn't want.  I think Ramona had a similar set up, but no one goes in on her to confess.  Why is that?  And then you have Bethenny who hides her relationships, but expects others to spill every blessed detail of their relationships or they are liars and snakes.  I really hate the double standards.  Lu still gets grief over the Count/open relationship thing.

I haven't seen any evidence that Ramona and Mario had an agreed-upon open relationship. That aside, I think a lot of the reasons why the other women wanted Luann to be more honest about her life in the beginning was the huge discrepancy between her public persona and how she behaved behind the scenes. She was all about etiquette and propriety, she literally wrote the book about it, but then she was acting like a good-time boozehound when cameras weren't rolling. Which is fine in theory, but less so when you're acting high and mighty toward your costars. I am not a fan of how the women currently treat Luann at all - I think they need to lay off - but I don't forget Luann's behavior during the first half of this show - her jealous digs at Bethenny about the magazine airbrushing her, actively standing in the way of a Bethenny/Jill reconciliation, planting seeds that Ramona is a bonafide alcoholic, living for the rumors of Mario's cheating (which, if anything, she should have been the most sensitive of anyone to how hurtful that could be), the way she went after Carole for dating Adam. Luann has been no saint throughout RHoNYC; she may be much more authentic and devil-may-care now, but she initially brought a lot of this stuff onto herself with her two-faced behavior in the first four seasons or so.

Edited June 9, 2017 by PhilMarlowe2

[robroy]

41 minutes ago, NYCNJbear06 said:

And further proof, to me, that it’s all about the proximity to wealth.

She is probably still the wealthiest NY housewife even if it is via marriage. I think she craves fame and hass a painful need for attention but she does not need the others to bring an illusion of wealth.  

[NYCNJbear06]

I agree with you Robroy and I should have been more careful in my thoughts.  Yes, Jill is very wealthy and my observation wasnt meant to be construed that Jill doesn't have wealth so it should have read "Proximity to others of wealth"

[Baltimore Betty]

42 minutes ago, Juliegirlj said:

Is there something in the water at Dorinda's home in the Berkshires?! First Bethenny at Luann and now Ramona at Bethenny...

Sonja went from being an amusing wackadoo to being rude, and hypocritical . She berates Tinsley for asking Sonja's assistant to answer the door, yet, as a guest in Dorinda's home, she rummages through her things,and helps herself to clothing that was obviously packed away carefully. 

Bethenny's change in demeanor during Ramona's drunken, crazy rant makes me think she may suspect that most people dislike her and are jealous. Even though she is being verbally attacked It's as if she is being proven right - there was a calm smugness about her . I also think she loves to be the martyr. 

Carole looked great in that artwork. What the frick is a " sexy salad"?! Adam was drizzling something from a jar over the salads.....?! 

The sexy salad thing looks like he has oodles of time, no job, not looking for a place to live and has a penchant for expensive camera equipment.  So sexy.  This is fine with Carole I guess but I would get tired of someone underfoot with no other ambition but to photograph lettuce in random places in my apartment.

My lunch today will be a sexy leftover hamburger and brussell sprouts.

[Chit Chat]

48 minutes ago, Juliegirlj said:

Bethenny's change in demeanor during Ramona's drunken, crazy rant makes me think she may suspect that most people dislike her and are jealous. Even though she is being verbally attacked It's as if she is being proven right - there was a calm smugness about her . I also think she loves to be the martyr. 

I think she let Ramona hang herself with that rant.  She knew the crazy was coming out.  All she had to do was sit back and watch her implode.  No need to pile on.  That was probably the best way to handle that particular situation, IMO.   Of course Bethenny stating that Ramona wasn't a good friend is what set her off.  Apparently that's the worst thing you can say to Ramona.   The whole thing was a big cluster fuck of unnecessary insults.  I'd like, for once, to see these women have a peaceful gathering - especially for the Christmas holidays, for pete's sake! 

Dear Dorinda:  Please invite me next time and I'll be the perfect guest!  I will ooh and ahh over your decorations, and help ice cookies and cupcakes, and eat any deflated cake that you serve!  I won't light fires in your 'for decoration only' fireplace.  I won't tear up your furniture or walls!   And anybody that starts trouble, well, I'll personally kick their butt to the curb!

[Normades]

2 minutes ago, ChitChat said:

Dear Dorinda:  Please invite me next time and I'll be the perfect guest!  I will ooh and ahh over your decorations, and help ice cookies and cupcakes, and eat any deflated cake that you serve!  I won't light fires in your 'for decoration only' fireplace.  I won't tear up your furniture or walls!   And anybody that starts trouble, well, I'll personally kick their butt to the curb!

Yes, but will you wear Dorinda's underwear????  I notice you left that off the list.  I see what you have in mind! ;)

[politichick]

2 hours ago, Mozelle said:

Not only women, but men will gladly line up to tear women down for their looks as well. You see it on social media. There have also been women who've done these (anecdotal) experiments while online dating. A guy will message a woman and tell her he thinks she's beautiful and "OMG! You're so fine!" When the woman agrees--"I think so, too"--then he gets pissed off. Like, to the point where he's cussing in response or calling her conceited and telling her all she has to do is say "Thank you."

I think in the case of Carole, it's that she never divorced but rather became widowed. And having never remarried and not looking to remarry, she probably doesn't feel the need to go back to her maiden name. When my mother and father split, I was about 6 years old. My mom kept my dad's last name up until the point she remarried my stepdad, and that was when I was almost 17 and they'd been together for a couple years at that point. 

Tinsley got married at 17 so she's been a Mortimer longer than whatever she was before.

 

2 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

Who paid for the helicopter?  There is a chance that Tom will have his hall passes and get Lu to pay for things, his lifestyle will improve greatly.

Isn't Tom wealthy? He doesn't need LuAnn to pay for things.

[Prairie]

I hate Tinsley's early 2000s look. She would be adorable with darker, warmer hair, and if she traded the heavy black liner with some browns and plums and wore a fresh, matte lip.  And of course lost those signature curls!

Dorinda has been an A++ addition to this franchise. She is a truly successful, wealthy, interesting (IMO lol) woman who has known a lot of these women forever and therefore has real relationships with. She's not so proper or image conscious though that we still get to see her party side often, and it gives a lot of the greatest scenes. Her personal style and decor are definitely different than mine but I love to look at her/her homes and I love her as a character on this show. I do think that her current messy drunk persona that she has sometimes (not all times) is a response and coping mechanism to her continuing grief. I don't get the impression that she was like that when she was married to Richard, but she has given in to her new lifestyle and is going with it as the love of her life is not coming back.

[AnnaL]

6 hours ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Well, after reading so many posts about how children of privilege have no reason to bitch about the sorry state of their childhood, I guess it's a good news/bad news deal for Bryn. Most people always say they worry for her and what will become of her. I guess she should worry, because should she suffer the consequences of her parents actions, many won't care because she will undoubtably go to good schools and have all the material comforts a little gal could want. Although for some reason I don't think that will be the case. Should she run into issues resolving her childhood, in her case it will be all Beth's fault. 

 

 

This logic (not yours) that wealthy children cannot suffer from abuse is so strange to me. Yes, there will always be a person who suffers more than we do. Even here in the US, there are many children who are dead poor, in foster homes, being abused who could count their blessings when you compare them with some of the refugee children who are moving out everyday and have to see dead bodies around them. 

This attempt to minimize B's crappy childhood is very petty. She hadn't spoken to her mother for ten years before S1 of RHNY, that tells me all I need to know about that, this was not a ploy for cameras, there are police reports about all the fights between her parents and then fights between her mother and step father. The fact that the only person who she gives credit for raising her was her stepfather speaks volumes. Yes, she acknowledges that her relationship between Bernardette and Parisella was very volatile but at least Parisella allowed her to work at the stables and be away from the nightmare of her house. I am sure boarding school was a blessing for Bethenny. 

I was lucky enough to get a scholarship to go to a wealthy religious school, you could say I was the poor girl (never bother me) and my classmates were all from prominent families, my best friend's family was rich (by our city standards anyway) but she was miserable, her parents were always busy, the father was a drunk and a womanizer, the mother was a religious nuts and she criticized my friend relentlessly. My friend was not skinny, she wasn't fat either, but her mother used that to call her names, "Miss Piggy here doesn't know when to stop" would she say and laugh. I told my mother once about my friend and my mom never allowed me to go back to their house. I used to be invited so we could go swimming together. I used to invite her over to my house instead. Her mom brought her a couple of times, she looked over her shoulder at our tiny house but then she allow her to come. We had so much fun, we didn't have a pool but we would climb trees and play dollies and braid our hairs. She is still my friend and on her wedding day she told me, " my happiest childhood memories are with you in your house" , not in her rich mansion but in my two bedroom house. Her father had passed away from pancreas cancer and her mother was not invited, it was a wonderful event.  

She goes to therapy, she started going when her daughter was born.  What about her real pain? what do you tell a woman like that? 

I am sorry, your pain doesn't count, it is not real, you were rich so you can't complain? Other had it worse than you so you need to move on?

You can dislike someone but still understand how their life experiences have shaped their views and behavior.

Same goes for Ramona, as crazy as she is, I still feel sorry about her childhood and her abusive father, just because I don't like her I would never pretend that she should not talk about it or that she is exaggerating or making it up and never happen.  

The depths that some people goes to minimize the pain of someone they do not like is appalling to me.

[jaync]

Quote

Bethenny might be a user, but she didn't get those opportunities on her back or her knees.

Yeah, she only advises other aspiring businesswomen to go that route.

Quote

Who raised Ramona? Wolves?

Well, she and Beth are a ton alike. Separated at birth?

Quote

I don't think the old Bethenny was real.

Her face looked to be, though. That's another thing she and Ramona have in common - their faces have seen more knives than a Benihana.

Quote

The "it's hard to watch her eat" remark has my vote as the worst thing anyone has ever said on this franchise.

That was pretty rich considering the way Carole's BFF eats (when she actually does), which entails taking a small bite and chewing the hell out of it like a squirrel on crack.

[film noire]

9 hours ago, lunastartron said:

Personally, I think Bethenny is turning into a textbook representation of a substance abuser/addict. There's the compulsive self-mythologizing with only a cursory relationship to consistency (notably, her account of boarding school has been at different times a reflection of parental neglect vis a vis her being "shipped off" versus something that she herself requested); an ever intensifying fetish for victimization; and increasingly bizarre ascriptions of accountability (LuAnn made me attack her; the house caused me to conduct myself like an asshole; a coworker's hair inspired my morally deviant sadism). 

eta: This nails it, Luna, especially "an ever intensifying fetish for victimization". That's the quality I recognized in her two years ago that made me walk away from defending her -- the emotional pretzel logic that allows an abuser to ignore their abusive behavior because they're the real victim --  for anyone who has seen that, it's unmistakable in her. And toxic beyond belief. 

9 hours ago, lunastartron said:

Plenty of fucked up shit befell Kim Richards (albeit in a different way than Bethenny) both during her childhood and adult life. That doesn't somehow mitigate her destructive behavior over the years (her neverending martyrdom at the hands of Kyle; her "she got a bite on her fucking finger" ethos about self-responsibility; etc) and/or negate the fact that both in the past and present she enjoys a significant degree of privilege and resources about which many can only dream. 

Yes (and her drug issues made the difference even more stark, when people discussed it in that "I lived through X" Kim Richards thread years ago. When your economic background means you get to go to rehab - vs going to juvie or prison - that's a life changing moment right there).

8 hours ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Well, after reading so many posts about how children of privilege have no reason to bitch about the sorry state of their childhood

Children of privilege have every right to bitch. They're powerless kids. But at less than three years from 50, Bethenny is not a powerless child. She's a grown up -- a toxic one at that,  compulsively re-enacting the abusive communication of her childhood on everyone around her - and yes, because of that, Bryn will suffer. She won't escape the burden of that kind of childhood. Nobody does. But Bryn will also be able to get the help needed to cope with her toxic childhood in ways poor kids in abusive homes can't. I doubt Bethenny Frankel would have preferred to grow up abused and poor; she might want to ask herself why that is. 

Quote

This logic (not yours) that wealthy children cannot suffer from abuse is so strange to me.

Who is saying this? 

Quote

The depths that some people goes to minimize the pain of someone they do not like is appalling to me.

I disagree that's what's being discussed; imo, what's being pointed out is how Bethenny herself minimizes the things that helped her in significant ways poor kids are not helped,  not a minimizing of her abusive childhood. 

Edited June 9, 2017 by film noire

[Former Nun]

20 hours ago, Boofish said:

I had no idea if your parents were rich and you were educated and had a car they are automatically good people and your struggles don't count.

Assigned reading or watching:  MOMMIE DEAREST.

[HunterHunted]

3 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

Who paid for the helicopter?  There is a chance that Tom will have his hall passes and get Lu to pay for things, his lifestyle will improve greatly.

I just assumed they were taking a helicopter taxi to the airport. It's really not that much money. Especially for something like the Real Housewives, it's an easy way to convey wealth without having to spend a bunch of money.

https://www.flyblade.com/nyc-helicopter-airport-transfers/

http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2015/01/21/gotham-airs-new-99-helicopter-manhattan-jfkewr/

Edited June 9, 2017 by HunterHunted

[film noire]

2 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

My lunch today will be a sexy leftover hamburger and brussell sprouts.

Are you going to eat your sexy lunch on a waterbed? ; )

Edited June 9, 2017 by film noire

[Normades]

1 hour ago, film noire said:

I disagree that's what's being discussed; imo, what's being pointed out is how Bethenny herself minimizes the things that helped her in significant ways poor kids are not helped,  not a minimizing of her abusive childhood. 

I agree with you.  My take is that they are two different issues.  Abuse is abuse.  I think some people, myself included, don't appreciate that B doesn't seem to acknowledge the privilege she's had.  There was abuse and that is awful no matter how much or how little money you have, but she did have some advantages due to social status and wealth.  Just two of many facets of her childhood, one does not negate the other.

[BckpckFullaNinjas]

4 hours ago, rhys said:

Apropos of not much, I've been curious as to why Carole & Tinsley use their married names. I'm guessing those names have/had some juice.

Dunno about Tinsley, but Carole's MIL Lee Radziwill is still legendary in society circles as the fashionable sister of the late Jackie Kennedy Onassis, the widowed First Lady of the USA and also widow(ex wife?) of probably one of the worlds richest men at the time. 

Carole's family's name is (IIRC) of Italian derivation and I imagine she hasn't used it since she was married to co-worker Anthony Radziwill (may he RIP), who would've been a prince if Poland were still a monarchy.

TL;DR -- it has a LOT more cachet than her family's name.

[film noire]

4 hours ago, Normades said:

I agree with you.  My take is that they are two different issues. 

Exactly. 

Quote

Abuse is abuse.  I think some people, myself included, don't appreciate that B doesn't seem to acknowledge the privilege she's had.  There was abuse and that is awful no matter how much or how little money you have, but she did have some advantages due to social status and wealth.  Just two of many facets of her childhood, one does not negate the other.

I agree, abuse is abuse -- being abused in a lovely house in a lovely suburb doesn't hurt less than being abused in rat infested building - but it's what happens to a child when it 's time to cope with the fallout from the abuse which makes the difference,  imo.   I think childhood abuse is (strangely) similar to a chronic medical condition --  some kids get access to the help they need to build a healthier life as an adult, some don't -- the difference between those two situations (at least in this country) is usually economic. 

Edited June 9, 2017 by film noire

[BckpckFullaNinjas]

On 6/9/2017 at 1:03 PM, Former Nun said:

Assigned reading or watching:  MOMMIE DEAREST.

Ooh, if I could find a copy I would read it yesterday!

During the run of Feud, it was revealed that copies are scarcer than hens teeth and that the movie was way overdramatized and exaggerated in contrast to the book.

Edited June 11, 2017 by BckpckFullaNinjas

[ladle]

I don't like Bethenny, but her facial reactions to Ramona's barrage of "Are you kidding me"s were pure comedy.  I rewound and rewatched that exchange four times.

And then: "Fuck my way to the top?  I can't even fuck my way to the middle!"

Dead. 

Also, I don't like conflict, but I could have watched Bethenny and Ramona trade personal zingers for a lot longer and consumed a lot of popcorn while doing so.  They've been doing this for a long time, and they know where the bodies are buried. 

Edited June 9, 2017 by ladle

[robroy]

3 minutes ago, ladle said:

I don't like Bethenny, but her facial reactions to Ramona's barrage of "Are you kidding me"s were pure comedy.  I rewound and rewatched that exchange four times.

And then: "Fuck my way to the top?  I can't even fuck my way to the middle!"

Dead. 

The goal is to fuck her way to ground level. <drops mic>

I have to give Beth credit- she handles a reality show confrontation better than anyone. Hell she should send Kelly, Jill and Ro flowers on their birthdays for life. They lobbed pitches straight up the middle and she hit them out of the park.

[ButterQueen]

On 6/7/2017 at 9:30 PM, mbaywife123 said:

What the hell, Ramona tore down lights and did damage to Dorinda's house.

NEVER invite that crazy bitch to ANYTHING again!

Time for Ramona to go!!!

On 6/7/2017 at 9:34 PM, Emmeline said:

What the heck!

Sonja wears Dorinda's lingerie that her dead husband gave her.  A cherished thing!

Then Ramona decides to pull down some light fixtures and damages the walls in the guest room!

If Dorinda ever had another gathering for these women, she should be nominated for sainthood.

She would  be stupid.

Bravo will fix the damage.

No way did Dorinda clean up that mess.  She has help.

[BloggerAloud]

I feel like so much of Ramona's nutty/mean behavior stems from the fact that she always consoled herself with the idea that no matter how successful Bethenny got, Bethenny would never have a marriage as good as the one Ramona had with Mario. And when that imploded, Ramona lost this thing she could dangle over all the other housewives.

[ButterQueen]

On 6/7/2017 at 9:46 PM, poeticlicensed said:

As much as I have Jill , she was dead on about Ramona. Ramona is miserable about the breakup of her marriage . Her whole I'm having the time of my life thing is just an act. And her misery comes out when she gets drunk, she gets nasty. 

Jill's comes out when drinking Diet Coke.  Hag!

[HunterHunted]

1 hour ago, BckpckFullaNinjas said:

Dunno about Tinsley, but Carole's MIL Lee Radziwill is still legendary in society circles as the fashionable sister of the late Jackie Kennedy Onassis, the widowed First Lady of the USA and also widow(ex wife?) of probably one of the worlds richest men at the time. 

Carole's family's name is (IIRC) of Italian derivation and I imagine she hasn't used it since she was married to co-worker Anthony Radziwill (may he RIP), who would've been a prince if Poland were still a monarchy.

TL;DR -- it has a LOT more cachet than her family's name.

Topper's family is really well known. He's an heir to the Standard Oil fortune and much like old man Morgan, Topper has some of those founding father roots. Besides the notoriety, I can see why Tinsley might be inclined to keep the Mortimer last name. She was with him for almost 20 years. They were high school sweethearts. They eloped at 18. His parents made them annul it. They got married again in their mid 20s and stayed together for 7 years. She left him in 2009, but for part of that time he was trying to win her back. They finally divorced in 2012.

Lee is really well known in society circles and is still considered quite stylish. Tinsley reminds me of Lee, though not nearly as awful and narcissistic as Lee. I think once Tinsley became the "It Girl" it was hard to get her to stop chasing the fame, which left her marriage a casualty of that pursuit. Lee always thought she should be famous, which is why she's been using and fucking people over since she was 20.

I have no clue why Carole continues to use the Radziwill name. It could be a tribute to him or a way of honoring him. Maybe she had a hard time giving it up as she was mourning.

Edited June 9, 2017 by HunterHunted

[Trooper York]

17 minutes ago, ButterQueen said:

No way did Dorinda clean up that mess.  She has help.

Actually Reality TV shows are notorious for making a mess and then not fixing it. 

The crew often is very rough when filming especially when it is in your home. You have to watch every moment because they will break stuff out of laziness and carelessness. 

Dorinda is one of the few Housewives in all of the franchise who actually makes food for the girls. I only remember the woman in Jersey and Shannon in the OC.  And of course Harry Hamlin fed them his meat on Beverly Hills but he is quite promiscuous in sharing his meat so that doesn't really count.

Dorinda seems much more of a homebody than the rest of these parasites.

[ghoulina]

4 hours ago, NYCNJbear06 said:

 

And that one lil clip of Jill shows me that she hasn’t changed an iota.  Jill is celebrity/fame addict.  She misses the drama and “celebrity” that comes from being on the show.  Jill likes to be associated with famous and wealthy people.  People that because of her association with them gives her the cache she desires. 

 

That is the perfect description of Jill. She collects people. I have been watching old episodes that ran the other day and there was one where Kelly met Jill and Ali for a photo shoot. Jill introduced Kelly to someone (the photographer? designer? I'm not sure), but they already knew each other. In her THs, Jill was positively gloating and said something along the lines of how "proud" it made her to say, "SHE'S (Kelly) with ME". Who fucking cares????

 

3 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

My lunch today will be a sexy leftover hamburger and brussell sprouts.

I just had a sexy turkey sandwich and a super sexy apple. 

(I can't ever see ANY food being sexy, except maybe a dessert.)

1 hour ago, film noire said:

I think childhood abuse is (strangely) similar to a chronic medical condition --  some kids get access to the help they need to build a healthier life as an adult, some don't -- the difference between those two situations (at least in this country) is usually economic. 

But, at the same time, I think children of wealthy parents might fall under the radar because people in those circles are lot more likely to keep "ugly" things private. 

[QuinnM]

Quote

I have no clue why Carole continues to use the Radziwill name. It could be a tribute to him or a way of honoring him. Maybe she had a hard time giving it up as she was mourning.

There is no custom for a widow to return to her maiden name.  I wouldn't expect that.  If you choose to take your husband's name at the time of the marriage then I can see returning if you divorce.