Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[Stallion12]

1 minute ago, nikma said:

spread where? you are spending too much time in echo champer. Even now people love GoT. Some people will love it, some will hate it. But eveyrone will be here for E1.

The internet, in person. A bad ending can kill a show, look at what happened with lost. Even Martin has said he fears that.

As far as the prequel, I already don't see much hype for it, episode 3 hurt a lot of people's enjoyment about the knight king. And I'm not talking about these forums. So a whole series based off it after the outrage to a bad ending drawing tons of people? Highly unlikely. 

[joliefaire]

24 minutes ago, nikma said:

This franchise is too big to fall. If they have 20% of popularity that GoT had, it will still be the most popular HBO show right now.

HBO has nothing to lose. Even those who hated GoT S8 will watch it because of new writers and GRRM's involvement.

And Direwolves!  Don't forget that The Long Night, from what we know so far, will be heavy on Direwolves, expanding on why they're so important and significant to the Starks.  The show has already bred a special litter of wolves to work with.  And since we don't expect dragons during that time period, all the CGI money can go to improving the quality of the Direwolves.  I'll watch it for them, if nothing else.

[Umbelina]

33 minutes ago, Bianca Castafiore said:

Well, if Bran is gonna be King (and it's the same ending as the books), his direwolf's name, Summer, was the biggest clue and GRMM has been clearly trolling us for years now...

That's actually kind of cool.  Ha.

I wonder if seasons go to a more normal rotation now?  No more 9 year summers.

I still can't get over WINTER lasting one night. 

Seriously dudes?  WINTER IS COMING WINTER IS COMING WINTER IS COMING...oops!  you missed it!  It's gone now, oh, and it only came to Winterfell too!

[ShellsandCheese]

2 hours ago, Eyes High said:

"What if the Seven Kingdoms, for once in their whole shit history, were ruled by a just woman and an honourable man?"

On what planet is Tyrion honorable though? And I don’t think Sansa is just either. Tyrion has done one of two things over the course of the last three seasons:

1. Been a shitty hand who demonstrated poor judgment and a true failure to understand his opponent and give his Queen sound advice -OR-

2. He’s been in cahoots with his family the whole time and has worked to keep a real usurper on the throne. 

Either way he’s not honorable and I think he’d make a lousy King. Ditto Sansa but for entirely different reasons. 

[SeanC]

3 minutes ago, ShellsandCheese said:

On what planet is Tyrion honorable though? And I don’t think Sansa is just either. Tyrion has done one of two things over the course of the last three seasons:

1. Been a shitty hand who demonstrated poor judgment and a true failure to understand his opponent and give his Queen sound advice -OR-

2. He’s been in cahoots with his family the whole time and has worked to keep a real usurper on the throne. 

Either way he’s not honorable and I think he’d make a lousy King. Ditto Sansa but for entirely different reasons. 

The writers unquestionably think he’s honourable, whatever anyone else might think.

[loki567]

1 hour ago, Umbelina said:

Why?  Gendry would just be more of the same destructive "inheritance" Kings.  As poorly as the show is handling this?  I can see (I think) GRRM's intent here to move Westeros forward and away from that same old shit.

It depends on what kind of ending you want. Me personally? I just want something narratively consistent with the world the books set up. GRRM's always spoke against the idea of The Good King with his, "what was Aragon's financial policy after LOTR?" The idea that Bran would be a good choice because he has super powers seems to be a little too close to that. 

I would like Gendy as king, not because he would necessarily be a good one (although he'd probably do alright with Tyrion as his hand) but because it would be consistent with the realpolitik nature of ASOIAF. The lords of Westeros need somebody as a face of their power structure and they elevate Robert's heir who will do what he's told. Life (and politics) goes on same as it ever was. 

[Eyes High]

Kristofer Hivju wryly observed in a recent interview that the show is called Game of Thrones, not Defeat of the Dead. 

What’s interesting to me is that the writers which have been pushing Jon and Dany as these heroic leaders and messianic saviours have moved so far away from that in S8. We can all see what’s happened to Dany, but Jon for all of Sam and Varys’ hype about how amazing he is seems diminished in S8 as well, merely a dull, sadfaced pawn to be shoved around by everyone else and outshone by Arya in what was supposed to be his big moment in 8x03. (And really, even Varys’ praise seemed halfhearted. Measured and temperate? That’s it?)

30 minutes ago, SeanC said:

The writers unquestionably think he’s honourable, whatever anyone else might think.

If anyone’s gotten the saint edit in the first four episodes, it’s Tyrion. 

[Umbelina]

4 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

I've read the books and you what, GRRM can't make that story work either.  I think that's why there are no books.  He built all these stories and characters and foreshadowing and then ....  crickets.  I really, really wanted more books that would answer the questions and finish the stories.  But the fact he can't do it tells me that it's not doable.  

Honestly, I think he does have answers for the magical parts, I don't believe he would write this at all if he didn't have that part figured out.

What he really needed was a decent, strong editor.  He has no self control, and just keeps adding more characters because "oooh!  Cool!  I wanna do that!" 

His Meereen knot stymied him, and I get it.  If Dany just leaves right away, then you can't build the arc that she has any chance of being anything more than a conqueror with flying nukes, and that gives away (this) ending.  So we get to be bored as fuck in Meereen forever, and he still doesn't really know how to get her to Westeros.

[VCRTracking]

Another article I found that made similar to the one I posted above:

The Key to ‘Game of Thrones’ Season 8 Isn’t Dragons or Swords or White Walkers or Even Incest. It’s Consequence.

The writer makes a valid point that after they ran out of books to adapt there were no longer consequences and repercussions to characters actions as there had been in earlier seasons.

[Umbelina]

25 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Kristofer Hivju wryly observed in a recent interview that the show is called Game of Thrones, not Defeat of the Dead. 

Yes, the show is called that.  The books are called A Story of Fire and Ice.

So, show only watchers have different expectations than book readers maybe.

That's why I seriously loved that one podcast talking about ep 4, but they go into so much more, including this and other failures.  They say it so much better than I can, but it's something like "In order to believe in this world and this character, the parameters need to be honored, the canon of this world needs explaining, and you do NOT get to violate those rules or it all feels like a cheat."  Fantasy DEMANDS that you don't violate your own "rules" and GRRM simply would not do that.  Only as I said, they do it much better.    This link, and it gets better as it goes on.  https://www.theringer.com/binge-mode/2019/5/9/18549172/game-of-thrones-s8e4-the-last-of-the-starks

It also has a balanced and interesting discussion of Dany.  They know their books, and they also know of the spoilers BTW.

14 minutes ago, Bianca Castafiore said:

Anyways, I was watching a Liam Cunningham interview the other day and he said sth interesting. That everytime he sees GRRM in various events, GRRM always tells him that when he is writing Davos now he can't get Liam out of his head. So..maybe that's another reason he is struggling to finish these damn books? That the TV versions of his characters are starting to blend with his own vision?

I've always heard him say that those characters have been alive for him for decades, so show versions don't influence him.

I can believe that, if for no other reason than most of the book characters are still very, very young.

However, maybe Davos/Liam is the exception.  I remember JK Rowling saying the same about her book characters, but she did say her only exception was Luna Lovegood.  The actress was so wonderful, that when she was writing final books, Evanna Lynch WAS in her head for Luna scenes.

Edited May 11, 2019 by Umbelina
clarity

[Snowball II]

6 hours ago, Solace247 said:

Honestly, the writing for the Stark girls this season and last comes off as so manufactured, I’m over them. That coupled with Jon being impotent in every scene this season, toss in useless Bran—the Starks are shits.

Remember when Cersei said, "Everyone who isn't us is an enemy"?

I couldn't help but think of that when Arya told Jon that Daenerys wasn't one of them.

The fact that it came  from Arya, a character who has traveled the world, met many different kinds of people, and was trained by two foreign dudes, was very confusing, to me.  Just...what?

I'm sticking it out to the very end, but I don't understand what's happening to the characters.  Hopefully, the end will at least be batshit crazy, and entertaining.

[jeansheridan]

I am fairly sure there is no winning this for the writers. Battle of the Bastards was possibly the most satisfying conclusion to a long arc (the rise of Ramsey and return of the Starks). 

I think if Cercei and Euron die on screen, that will make most people happy enough. 

I have mixed feelings about the baby dragon rumors. I'd love seeing more dragons but the show hasn't telegraphed this idea at all. If we'd seen more eggs at some point I'd feel better about the idea. 

I think I'd rather see Tyrion finally be properly clever again. No last minute revelations. Just use all the characters at their full potential. Let Jon be heroic, let Arya be sneaky, let the Mountain and the Hound face off, let the underused Yara kick butt on the sea, and let Tyrion be smart. I guess I do want a win for the non Cercei side, whatever that looks like.

[Stallion12]

Not buying it will, it's a prequel 8000 years in the past, it won't fix the ending unless they travel to the future and add events. In fact the night king story isn't a big draw.  The direwolves would be, but if they do to much time travel it'll get dumb fast.

[Lemuria]

10 hours ago, Affogato said:

would guess to protect the children of the forest?

But the COTF are extinct. The last of them died trying when the NK attacked and killed the3ER (the whole Hodor episode). So, that’s not the reason. 

If Jon becomes king (increasingly unlikely), I could see his granting the lands beyond the remaining Wall to that Free Folk along with all the remaining castles on the Wall, leaving the gap to act as a pass connecting the True North and the rest of Westeros. 

( and if he doesn’t become king but just goes to the far north to live among the Free Folk, I could see his declaring to the rest of Westeros that the far north is now a separate kingdom and I could see his taking over the castles along the wall – – and probably rebuilding something in the pass as sort of a guard tower and a Great Gate, and basically telling the rest of Westeros that they’ll deal with them and trade with them etc. but otherwise, stay out!)

[Lemuria]

 You may be right but I still have to think that what the producers did with the whole NK storyline – – which is basically to screw it into the ground and make nothing out of it – – has to cut into the audience for the prequel. Why would you want to waste your time on a storyline that you know will turn out to be nothing? 

 It would’ve made a difference for me if they had decided to abandon Westeros and instead take the story to Essos, to where the Long Night really started. The  Long Night in Westeros was a reflection of what had broken out an Essos. It would have touched on some things that people had heard about in this series, but also would’ve presented an entirely new scenario. The Great Empire of the Dawn.  The Blood Emperor.  The Maiden Made of Light.  The Lion of Night, who sent his demons to ravage humanity because of the Blood Emperor’s transgressions.

And last but not least—drumroll, please—Azor Ahai and Lightbringer, a mysterious figure who came out of nowhere, defeated the evil, and then disappeared back into the mists of history. 

And who didn’t look a damn thing like Arya.

Edited May 11, 2019 by Lemuria

[Detective005]

4 hours ago, Umbelina said:

So, Jon needed to know who he really is.  Littlefingers needed to be stopped and to face justice.  

Why? If we talk about the show, this information that john is a targaryen is totally useless

[QuinnM]

Quote

 You may be right but I still have to think that what the producers did with the whole NK storyline – – which is basically to screw it into the ground and make nothing out of it – – has to cut into the audience for the prequel.

Unless the last NK was cut down the same way and Bran the Builder built the wall because they knew there would always be a NK.  So there's that.

[Umbelina]

7 minutes ago, Detective005 said:

Why? If we talk about the show, this information that john is a targaryen is totally useless

Jon.

We don't know yet.  Hopefully we will.

Or maybe GRRM said so, so they did it without knowing why.  There is a reason though, although it may be buried deep in GRRM's brain.  He gave them the endings for all of the major characters, and the show.  Jon is a major character.

[kittykat]

2 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Honestly, I think he does have answers for the magical parts, I don't believe he would write this at all if he didn't have that part figured out.

What he really needed was a decent, strong editor.  He has no self control, and just keeps adding more characters because "oooh!  Cool!  I wanna do that!" 

His Meereen knot stymied him, and I get it.  If Dany just leaves right away, then you can't build the arc that she has any chance of being anything more than a conqueror with flying nukes, and that gives away (this) ending.  So we get to be bored as fuck in Meereen forever, and he still doesn't really know how to get her to Westeros.

Not to call back to 6.10 too much but I remember when Dany sailed away we were all THANK GOD MEEREEN IS DONE!  So what would have happened if GRRM got his wish and there were ten seasons?  If D&D had left and passed the watch on to either Nutter or Cogman?  I'm not exactly seeing forty episodes more of story to defeat Cersei and then the dead.  At that point we probably would have had yet another season of Dany in Meereen to bleed time which would have infuriated viewers, Cersei would have depleted her Westeros support anyway and the North basically would have been in a holding pattern.

I guess I'm saying that having a everyone in stalemate season is as bad as plot point, plot point, turn, turn, kick, plot point, turn.  I get why D&D got her there too but it was the way her story was wasted afterwards to stay Cersei that annoys me.  They knew they wanted them facing off in a penultimate episode showdown but they haphazardly dwindled Dany's army for the sake of making it equal footing.  

The main complaint is not enough screen time and quality writing to provide the characters the current motives that have got them to their current places.  If we had gotten two full seasons I think we could have gotten a quality payoff with 80 episodes (with proper showrunning), but I'm not seeing 100.  But maybe GRRM imagined that number with all his book storylines and characters.

[glowbug]

2 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Kristofer Hivju wryly observed in a recent interview that the show is called Game of Thrones, not Defeat of the Dead. 

The problem with this is that while the show is called Game of Thrones, that's only the title of the first book. The series is actually called A Song of Ice and Fire, which is from a prophecy about The Prince That Was Promised who is supposed to save the world from darkness. And since the show is supposed to have the same ending as the books, it makes no sense for the "Ice" part of the title and the prophecy as a whole to mean nothing.

3 hours ago, nikma said:

That was the case with S7 as well. Even "RIP GoT writing" after some show, if I recall. But somehow GoT survied. They even got an Emmy. 

3 hours ago, nikma said:

And I don't think there will be any kind of consensus on GoT ending. Some people will love it, some people will hate it. But I still think they will get a lot of Emmys. 

I'm not sure what your point is about Emmys. The Emmys, like the Academy Awards and especially the Golden Globes, are highly political. While writing quality and audience popularity have some impact on the results, so much depends on politics it's not really a good measure of the show's quality. 

[Umbelina]

Honestly the only think that absolutely SHOCKS me is that Cersei makes it to the end.

I never, ever thought she would, I thought she would die a long time ago.

Maybe showrunners just told George the loved the actress too much and they were going to keep her, she was their other "big bad." 

[Affogato]

19 minutes ago, Lemuria said:

But the COTF are extinct. The last of them died trying when the NK attacked and killed the3ER (the whole Hodor episode). So, that’s not the reason. 

If Jon becomes king (increasingly unlikely), I could see his granting the lands beyond the remaining Wall to that Free Folk along with all the remaining castles on the Wall, leaving the gap to act as a pass connecting the True North and the rest of Westeros. 

( and if he doesn’t become king but just goes to the far north to live among the Free Folk, I could see his declaring to the rest of Westeros that the far north is now a separate kingdom and I could see his taking over the castles along the wall – – and probably rebuilding something in the pass as sort of a guard tower and a Great Gate, and basically telling the rest of Westeros that they’ll deal with them and trade with them etc. but otherwise, stay out!)

I confuse the book with the show sometimes. 

I never liked the idea of Dany. She is a foreign conquerer, wherever her parents came from,  and The seven ki gdoms are already averse to slavery, if Jorah os any indication. This being her primary virtue.

However Bran as king confuses me.  I always thought of him as an avatar of the old Gods, the Wargs, too. . Like Melisandre was an avatar of the lord of light and some of the priests of the drowned gods and the dragons. 

So I always felt thia was a human story and not a godly one. Maybe that is more the book, too. The show hasn’t made a lot if it clear. 

[Stallion12]

20 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

Unless the last NK was cut down the same way and Bran the Builder built the wall because they knew there would always be a NK.  So there's that.

That would feel to much like warcraftv where their must always be a lich king.

[Eyes High]

I'm really at a loss as to how they're going to wrap everything up in two episodes, especially now that we can reasonably expect, even assuming all the leaks about 8x05 to date are garbage, that the second-last episode will be devoted to Dany's downfall, the destruction of KL, and the deaths of the remaining antagonists and a few others (Euron, Jaime, Cersei, the Mountain, Sandor, Varys, and possibly Dany).

Assuming Dany dies in 8x05, that only leaves 80ish minutes for wrapping up the entire show: the fallout from KL's destruction, the grief and angst over character deaths (Tyrion for Jaime, Jon for Dany no matter what the circumstances are), the resolution of the Bronn Highgarden subplot, the reveal of the surviving characters' intentions and plans, all goodbyes between the Starklings and anyone else parting for good or at least for the foreseeable future, that "highly emotional" scene with a grieving father that WOTW mentioned, the improv-heavy scene that WOTW mentioned where people haggle over land, whatever was filmed at Pile Harbour in Dubrovnik in February 2018, the Dragonpit scene and the resolution of the throne issue, the 8x06 scene on the Belfast set that James Hibberd saw filmed, that scene filmed with Kit and Kristofer in Randalstown forest...

I mean, 8x04 was around 80 minutes, and it really didn't cover all that much. How are they going to pull this off? 

I'm very curious about what was filmed at Pile Harbour. By process of elimination, that could only have been from 8x06.

This is what Hibberd said about the 8x06 scene he saw filmed in a hangar on the Belfast set in March 2018:

Quote

What’s being filmed here is episode 6, the series finale. Like Harington going into the table read, I don’t know anything about the final season’s storyline. I look around at a meticulously constructed set that I’ve never seen on the show before. Several actors are performing, and I’m stunned: There are characters in the finale that I did not expect. I gradually begin to piece together what has happened in Westeros over the previous five episodes and try not to look like I’m freaking out.

Hibberd also said that this is all he could say about the scene "at this time," so he's probably going to talk about it after 8x06 airs.

Even knowing what we know now, it still seems opaque. Which characters did he not expect in the finale? What's the meticulously constructed set he has never seen before?

Edited May 12, 2019 by Eyes High

[catrice2]

Does Greyworm die? If so, how? 

[Umbelina]

2 minutes ago, glowbug said:

The problem with this is that while the show is called Game of Thrones, that's only the title of the first book. The series is actually called A Song of Ice and Fire, which is from a prophecy about The Prince That Was Promised who is supposed to save the world from darkness. And since the show is supposed to have the same ending as the books, it makes no sense for the "Ice" part of the title and the prophecy as a whole to mean nothing.

I'm not sure what your point is about Emmys. The Emmys, like the Academy Awards and especially the Golden Globes, are highly political. While writing quality and audience popularity have some impact on the results, so much depends on politics it's not really a good measure of the show's quality. 

Spending 55 days shooting one battle scene will probably get them an emmy, or at least some of them.  It was freezing, it was night shoots. 

The saddest parts of all that effort? 

1. You could not see most of it, because woo!  Dramatic dark scenes, with Messy getting to light it all up for a second.
2. COMPLETELY idiot battle plans.  I mean, there is no way they could have been more stupid.  From leaving the castle (hello!  fortress!  built for this shit!) to not using the dragons properly, let's hide in the dungeons...the whole thing was for visual effect, while making the characters looks beyond incompetent and frankly, like fools.
3. The big bad they have used for promotion for ten years WINTER IS COMING lasted all of one evening.
4. Why would the rest of Westeros even believe them?  It only happened to Winterfell.  The Vale has been preparing for decades, and previous winters (NK) lasted years.
5. It's obvious they just wanted magic out of the way, so they could focus on Cersei.  Oh, and keep the dragons because they are cool.  Screw Direwolves, or explaining Bran, drop the whole religious prophesy stuff...on to CERSEI!

[magdalene]

I am actually not sure that Jaime will die in the next episode. There was a spoiler that he doesn't arrive in KL until the very end of episode 5.

[Stallion12]

11 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

I'm really at a loss as to how they're going to wrap everything up in two episodes, especially now that we can reasonably expect, even assuming all the leaks about 8x05 to date are garbage, that the second-last episode will be devoted to Dany's downfall, the destruction of KL, and the deaths of the remaining antagonists and a few others (Euron, Jaime, Cersei, the Mountain, Sandor, Varys, and possibly Dany).

Assuming Dany dies in 8x05, that only leaves 80ish minutes for wrapping up the entire show: the fallout from KL's destruction, the grief and angst over character deaths (Tyrion for Jaime, Jon for Dany no matter what the circumstances are), the resolution of the Bronn Highgarden subplot, the reveal of the surviving characters' intentions and plans, all goodbyes between the Starklings and anyone else parting for good or at least for the foreseeable future, that "highly emotional" scene with a grieving father that WOTW mentioned, the improv-heavy scene that WOTW mentioned where people haggle over land, whatever was filmed at Pile Harbour in Dubrovnik in February 2018, the Dragonpit scene and the resolution of the throne issue, the 8x06 scene on the Belfast set that James Hibberd saw filmed, that scene filmed with Kit and Kristofer in Randalstown forest...

I mean, 8x04 was around 80 minutes, and it really didn't cover all that much. How are they going to pull this off? 

I'm very curious about what was filmed at Pile Harbour. By process of elimination, that could only have been from 8x06.

This is what Hibberd said about the 8x06 scene he saw filmed in a hangar on the Belfast set in March 2018:

Hibberd also said that this is all he could say about the scene "at this time," so he's probably going to talk about it after 8x06 airs.

Even knowing what we know now, it still seems opaque. Which characters did he not expect in the finale? What's the meticulously constructed set he has never seen before?

That sounds intriguing.

[kittykat]

12 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Honestly the only think that absolutely SHOCKS me is that Cersei makes it to the end.

I never, ever thought she would, I thought she would die a long time ago.

Maybe showrunners just told George the loved the actress too much and they were going to keep her, she was their other "big bad." 

D&D's undying love of Lena has been a detriment the last few seasons.  I have nothing personally against her, she was fire as Cersei Lannister but the conflict with her character should have been resolved before the Dead.  We got lazy plotting and boneheaded moves by the good guys to keep their shining star around.  

[Bianca Castafiore]

11 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

I'm really at a loss as to how they're going to wrap everything up in two episodes, especially now that we can reasonably expect, even assuming all the leaks about 8x05 to date are garbage, that the second-last episode will be devoted to Dany's downfall, the destruction of KL, and the deaths of the remaining antagonists and a few others (Euron, Jaime, Cersei, the Mountain, Sandor, Varys, and possibly Dany).

Assuming Dany dies in 8x05, that only leaves 80ish minutes for wrapping up the entire show: the fallout from KL's destruction, the grief and angst over character deaths (Tyrion for Jaime, Jon for Dany no matter what the circumstances are), the resolution of the Bronn Highgarden subplot, the reveal of the surviving characters' intentions and plans, all goodbyes between the Starklings and anyone else parting for good or at least for the foreseeable future, that "highly emotional" scene with a grieving father that WOTW mentioned, the improv-heavy scene that WOTW mentioned where people haggle over land, whatever was filmed at Pile Harbour in Dubrovnik in February 2018, the Dragonpit scene and the resolution of the throne issue, the 8x06 scene on the Belfast set that James Hibberd saw filmed, that scene filmed with Kit and Kristofer in Randalstown forest...

I mean, 8x04 was around 80 minutes, and it really didn't cover all that much. How are they going to pull this off? 

I'm very curious about what was filmed at Pile Harbour. By process of elimination, that could only have been from 8x06.

This is what Hibberd said about the 8x06 scene he saw filmed in a hangar on the Belfast set in March 2018:

Hibberd also said that this is all he could say about the scene "at this time," so he's probably going to talk about it after 8x06 airs.

Even knowing what we know now, it still seems opaque. Which characters did he not expect in the finale? What's the meticulously constructed set he has never seen before?

Unless we don't see the aftermath of the battle of KL and all the grieving scenes and goodbyes and we have a time jump. Which would be...a choice to say the least.

[rmontro]

9 hours ago, stagmania said:

Please don’t frame people’s disappointment and anger at this unearned, misogynist ending for Dany as irrational stanning. She has never been my favorite, but I’m absolutely incensed at the way these writers are treating her and it’s putting me firmly on her side. 

The writing is terrible.  Even if Dany goes full on crazy from here on, she hasn't really exhibited it yet.  Her ambitions aside, so far she's been a self sacrificing hero.  Varys plotting against her already hasn't been earned.  Sansa is just being a b!tch to her, and even Arya's complaints that "She's not one of us" seems to be coming out of nowhere.  Just the writers suddenly saying okay, you need to start distrusting Daenerys now.

If they had SHOWN us her instability before TELLING us, maybe the backlash wouldn't be what it is.  As it is, it seems completely unearned.  

I look at all the actors who have seen their careers get jumpstarted because they were on Game of Thrones.  I hope they don't take a hit now:  "Oh, you're that actor who was on that show with the crappiest ending in the history of television".

As for Bran becoming king, I don't deny his powers would be useful on a council to rule the kingdom, but I don't see him as king.  I think it would be kind of funny if all along he had been manipulating and plotting things out so that he himself would end up on the throne - if it would turn out that Bran was playing the game all along lol.

Edited May 12, 2019 by rmontro

[Umbelina]

14 minutes ago, kittykat said:

D&D's undying love of Lena has been a detriment the last few seasons.  I have nothing personally against her, she was fire as Cersei Lannister but the conflict with her character should have been resolved before the Dead.  We got lazy plotting and boneheaded moves by the good guys to keep their shining star around.  

I so agree!

One, she was not stunningly beautiful enough to be Cersei.  I was shocked to see that she's an attractive enough woman with her regular very dark hair, but that particular color of blond did absolutely NOTHING for her.

I'm not saying Lena isn't pretty, what I'm saying is that Cersei isn't "pretty."  She is drop dead gorgeous in the books.  I was shocked when I saw Cersei for the first time, and disappointed.

Two, JAIME DID NOT RAPE CERSEI!  He would never, not ever do that.  But, it gave Lena great scenes to play, and it gave Cersei sympathy, which honestly, she does not deserve in any fashion whatsoever.

Three, supposedly Cersei just luvs her kids which is another show invention, meant to round her out and make her more sympathetic.

Just horrible adapting for this character.  If there is such a thing as pure evil, Cersei is that.  The only time I ever felt sympathy or understanding for her was in Jaime's character, her childhood with a horrible father, her desire to not "just be a girl" and her craving for power was denied only because of her sex, and I got that.  I certainly got it as a reason that she became so evil, but never, not for one second, as a justification.

so annoying, but I suppose it works for the show.

I agree with one reviewer of the season (can't remember) that the WW should have made it to KL, and probably in the book?  They do.

D&D wanted her there until the end though, so that will be the finale.

Edited May 12, 2019 by Umbelina
clarity

[raven]

Posts have been removed for:

• Talking about "fandoms" and "stans".
• Talking about each other.
• Talking about possible spin offs - there is a separate topic for that.
• Rehashing past seasons and actions.
• Repeating your opinion several times.  If you are unable to make a new point about spoilers and speculation, MOVE ON.

Stay on topic and stop beating dead horses.   Only two more episodes to go.

[CherryMalotte]

17 minutes ago, kittykat said:

The main complaint is not enough screen time and quality writing to provide the characters the current motives that have got them to their current places.  If we had gotten two full seasons I think we could have gotten a quality payoff with 80 episodes (with proper showrunning), but I'm not seeing 100.  But maybe GRRM imagined that number with all his book storylines and characters.

Thank you.  I think you've hit it right, four more episodes this season and three the last - it would have worked a bit better and not felt so sloppy and rushed like a 500 word paper due the next day they just started on.  Being a book reader I knew for the sake of showdom that there was no way every little back story, plot line, and character was gonna get crowbarred  and pounded into just eight seasons.   Especially for an unfinished series of books.

Right now all I'm expecting is Arya to roam thru the Red Keep dungeons on her way to complete her list, and for Cleganebowl.  Anything else is up for grabs.  Maybe a surprise or two, but one thing is for sure...we only have two episodes left.

  

[Eyes High]

20 minutes ago, Bianca Castafiore said:

Unless we don't see the aftermath of the battle of KL and all the grieving scenes and goodbyes and we have a time jump. Which would be...a choice to say the least.

They skipped all the tearful post-battle reunions in 8x04 and went right to the funeral scene, so I can't rule it out.

I don't know whether these "Tyrion frees Jaime" leaks are accurate, but I really hope Tyrion and Jaime get a decent goodbye scene. If their last scene together was the Bronn scene, I'll be disappointed. The Tyrion/Cersei scene was probably the last the two characters will have together, though, which I'm okay with, personally (I loved it).

Rewatching the 7x07 Dragonpit scene, it's kind of sad to think of all the characters in attendance who are already dead or who will be dead by the time the 8x06 Dragonpit scene rolls around: Cersei, Jaime, Euron, Sandor, the Mountain, Jorah, Missandei, Varys, and possibly Dany. (I'm not sure about Qyburn, but I'm guessing it doesn't end well for him, either.) Team Dany and Team Cersei are getting almost entirely wiped out.

It looks like 8x05, in between Euron, Cersei, Jaime, Sandor, the Mountain, Varys, and possibly Dany, will have an even higher death toll than 8x03.

Edited May 12, 2019 by Eyes High

[Affogato]

39 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Even knowing what we know now, it still seems opaque. Which characters did he not expect in the finale? What's the meticulously constructed set he has never seen before?

They are at an archaeological dig investigating the remains of the spaceship of the First Men. The weirwoods and the older septs are transporters and everyone blown up by Cersei was transported there when the Wildfire exploded.

Fortunately the high Sparrow had a weak heart and died from shock but Margaery is fine. 

Edited May 12, 2019 by Affogato
Too much quote

[bubble sparkly]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

Assuming Dany dies in 8x05, that only leaves 80ish minutes for wrapping up the entire show:

It's seems incredibly unlikely that Dany dies in 8x05 though.  The GOTit leaker who has a friend who sees the episodes a week early gave the "rape bells" spoilers for ep 5, and Dany clearly doesn't die yet in his spoilers.  He claims to have asked his source who agreed that Jon killing Dany was where things were heading but it hadn't happened yet.

Also, the other leaker who claims to have post-production sources, and also correctly predicted the main 8x04 plot points, seems to agree with this.  He thinks 8x05 ends with Jaime and Cersei dying, then there is like 40 to 50 mins of stuff to get through in ep 6 before Jon kills Dany.  So, hilariously, Jon apparently kills Dany like 3/4 of the way through the finale, then they have like 30 mins for Jon to take the black and have a council to elect King Bran or whatever, and truly wrap things up.

None of the people who have leaked plot points from 8x05 this past week have mentioned that Jon kills Dany in this ep.  So unless they/their sources have not seen the last 5 mins of the ep because HBO is holding it back somehow, or they are all fakers who haven't actually seen anything, Dany isn't dying until some point in 8x06.

Edited May 12, 2019 by bubble sparkly

[Stallion12]

15 minutes ago, bubble sparkly said:

It's seems incredibly unlikely that Dany dies in 8x05 though.  The GOTit leaker who has a friend who sees the episodes a week early gave the "rape bells" spoilers for ep 5, and Dany clearly doesn't die yet in his spoilers.  He claims to have asked his source who agreed that Jon killing Dany was where things were heading but it hadn't happened yet.

Also, the other leaker who claims to have post-production sources, and also correctly predicted the main 8x04 plot points, seems to agree with this.  He thinks 8x05 ends with Jaime and Cersei dying, then there is like 40 to 50 mins of stuff to get through in ep 6 before Jon kills Dany.  So, hilariously, Jon apparently kills Dany like 3/4 of the way through the finale, then they have like 30 mins for Jon to take the black and have a council to elect King Bran or whatever, and truly wrap things up.

None of the people who have leaked plot points from 8x05 this past week have mentioned that Jon kills Dany in this ep.  So unless they/their sources have not seen the last 5 mins of the ep because HBO is holding it back somehow, or they are all fakers who haven't actually seen anything, Dany isn't dying until some point in 8x06.

The big thing about Danny making it to episode 6 is her contest with the fan, she wouldn't invite a fan to watch with her if she wasn't in the finale episode. She's the only character completely safe till the finale.

[Bianca Castafiore]

I have a couple of questions. We assume that Jon goes to Dragonstone to meet Dany first right? So we guess that image from the series trailer is from that scene?

And Jaime is captured and Tyrion frees him. Where is he captured? At one point everyone should be in KL.Then during the pre-battle scene Dany is supposed to give a big speech and Tyrion resigns  and he is imprisoned? Where? In a tent outside KL or sth? And that's apparently after the shot we see in the trailer with him, Jon and Davos. Unless the speech is after the surrender moment. Yikes.

[Solace247]

7 hours ago, Advance35 said:

This is where I am.  And my outlook towards GRRM nosedived because supposedly, he won't accept help to finish his series.  I can't blame him for writers block, it happens, but he's very possessive and doesn't want anyone else's fingertips touching the book version.

This is precisely why I am not as sympathetic towards the DDs. Adaptation or writing still requires writing as the skill  upon which you are relying and selling. They had all the time in the world to assess their abilities (whether as writers or adapters) and gather help if needed. To me, their insistence on steering the whole ship makes me think that ego was a factor in how this all played out.

[Eyes High]

7 minutes ago, Bianca Castafiore said:

I have a couple of questions. We assume that Jon goes to Dragonstone to meet Dany first right? So we guess that image from the series trailer is from that scene?

And Jaime is captured and Tyrion frees him. Where is he captured? At one point everyone should be in KL.Then during the pre-battle scene Dany is supposed to give a big speech and Tyrion resigns  and he is imprisoned? Where? In a tent outside KL or sth? And that's apparently after the shot we see in the trailer with him, Jon and Davos. Unless the speech is after the surrender moment. Yikes.

All I know is that Peter Dinklage's last scene seems to have been filmed at the post-devastation KL exterior set, close to the same time as Kit, Liam and Jacob wrapping on the same set. Still, I don't know what's going on with Tyrion during the actual destruction part with Cleganebowl and Dany's armies going apeshit and Jon having to fight his way out and such.

Edited May 12, 2019 by Eyes High

[Stallion12]

1 hour ago, catrice2 said:

Does Greyworm die? If so, how? 

Some sources say against John, but nothing is confirmed yet.

[magdalene]

https://www.express.co.uk/showbiz/tv-radio/1103428/game-of-thrones-season-8-spoilers-jaime-lannister-nikolaj-coster-waldau-finale-ending-hbo

According to this NCW loves his characters ending.  "A perfect final scene".  Not the final scene of the show.  But filmed close to the end. "In a beautiful location".

Huh? I am so confused.

[Solace247]

12 hours ago, SeanC said:

Basically an eternal god-king.

But why is this interesting? I ask this as a once-over reader of Dune. Wasn’t the story about Paul as a boy becoming Muad’dib the leader with additional books exploring his legacy? All we got here was a useless all-knowing boy in a wheelchair who becomes king. I’ll retract this statement if the ending fleshes it out more, but to me this a hugely unsatisfying end, given their chosen coverage of him throughout the series.

[ursula]

3 hours ago, Stallion12 said:

The difference with got, is unless a spinoff is a sequel, this is the ending, and if it's as bad as the outline, it will create an outrage. There won't be a continuation to fix it. 

Replying in spin off thread...

Edited May 12, 2019 by ursula

[Solace247]

2 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Honestly the only think that absolutely SHOCKS me is that Cersei makes it to the end.

I never, ever thought she would, I thought she would die a long time ago.

Maybe showrunners just told George the loved the actress too much and they were going to keep her, she was their other "big bad." 

This is why I think season seven was what it was.  They nixed the fAegon plot, loved the actress, and lacked the writing chops to fill out the characterization over two remaining seasons—hence, shortened seasons.

[Affogato]

33 minutes ago, Solace247 said:

But why is this interesting? I ask this as a once-over reader of Dune. Wasn’t the story about Paul as a boy becoming Muad’dib the leader with additional books exploring his legacy? All we got here was a useless all-knowing boy in a wheelchair who becomes king. I’ll retract this statement if the ending fleshes it out more, but to me this a hugely unsatisfying end, given their chosen coverage of him throughout the series.

In Dune it was what the people made him be, without their consent or eventually their involvement. Paul atreides didn't want to start a religious war but his followers made him the cebter of one. It has a lot to say about the internet, actually. 

Whatever happens with Bran it doesn’t seem as if it would be the same thing. 

[LoveLeigh]

I think the season wasted the first two episodes and then the third episode was too dark to see and the fourth episode was about nothing. 

I will be very disappointed if the show ends with some politically correct "council." The only way for this show to go out with a bang is for the writers to create a totally shocking final episode. It has to be a mind bender... like wow, I never saw THAT coming. 

If Bran is sitting on the iron throne, like who really cares. But the secret of Bran's warging during that great battle has to be revealed. If he goes back to the past..... and he saw something totally remarkable, well THAT would be a great ending. But it seems like the season is crawling to an end and everybody was bored, even the actors who could not even see a misplaced coffee cup. 

The final episode of a series is always scripted to be phenomenal (Six Feet Under, The Sopranos, Bob Newhart, etc.). I still maintain that this is George R. R. Martin telling this story of his ancestor, Sam, to his grandchildren on a Christmas Eve and when he puts them to bed he says "Go to sleep and stay warm. Winter is coming." 

[CherryMalotte]

1 hour ago, Affogato said:

They are at an archaeological dig investigating the remains of the spaceship of the First Men. The weirwoods and the older septs are transporters and everyone blown up by Cersei was transported there when the Wildfire exploded.

If Roger Corman was directing this and it was in black and white I'd sooooooo be there!

 

[Portia4844]

As a book reader Jon, Bran, Arya were the most interesting (to me) because of their bonds to their wolves, the Wall, the WWers and the magical aspects.  Arya killing the NK while Jon was foreshadowed as the possible Prince that was Promised seem to end.  And I'm not opposed to her being the one who killed him.

Seeing spoilers and predictions that Jon kills Dany makes me wonder if Jon is still the Prince that was Promised but it's to stop her and prevent the last Targ with her particular powers  (being able to birth them from eggs and so on) to retake the Throne.   Why have seasons of build up about who the PTWP was and then just end it with Arya killing the NK? Would Martin have told D&D when it gets to the end all the foreshadowing that was such a part of the his book series doesn't matter?  Just have Bran become the 3-eyed Raven and that's that?   

It's difficult to believe that this would be reduced to Cersei, getting her off the throne and then creating a Council.