S03.E21: Cause and Effect

[Trini]

Quote

DRASTIC TIMES CALL FOR DRASTIC MEASURES - Barry takes drastic measures to stop Savitar. Meanwhile, H.R. continues to push Tracy Brand (guest star Anne Dudek) to design the trap for Savitar and Killer Frost returns with an interesting proposal.

David McWhirter directed the episode written by Judalina Neira & Lauren Certo

 

------

So this episode supposedly has answers about Savitar -- we'll see.

[Trini]

Producer preview:

[Maverick]

 Did Iris say "They died peacefully" about Barry's parents?!   Stone cold, West.  

[Jediknight]

I guess Hartley's back to being a villain, judging by what Cisco said.  The one good thing Barry's time traveling adventures caused, has been undone.

Snart being back next week is good, he better return next season with the Rogues as the main villains and bring back fun.

[johntfs]

It was really cool to see Candice Patton really taking the lead.  I really liked the bit in Jitters where you could see Iris and Barry falling in love all over again.

[Lantern7]

That was fun, seeing Barry stripped of his manpain. I knew it couldn't last, but we needed a dose of the goofy.

Is Barritar basically a more lethal Peter Parker in Spider-Man 3? It's the hair. I can't take him that seriously.

Awwww . . . Huckster is in love. I'm hoping she'll live after this season. Still doubting Julian's survival, though.

Why does anybody explain cause and effect? They wipe Barry's mind to neutralize Barritar, but he's the guy that empowered Wally . . . but how would he remember having powers? I'd suggest having the Legends pop in. Mick could've one-shotted "Heat Monger."

The source of tremendous heat is with Killer Shark? I don't get that. 

ETA: As a fan of Impulse, I am down with seeing Bart Allen down the line. If Smallville got him right, he should be a snap.

[bettername2come]

I'm not sure what I expected from this episode, but this one did surprise me far more than last week. I like Caitlin's eyes flickering to brown as they made more of an impact on her than she let on. I like that Cisco's foray into medicine went poorly. Nice to know he can't actually accomplish everything.

Wait, wouldn't Savitar not creating Wally cause he didn't remember it also mean he wouldn't have created Killer Frost? Wasn't it him and not just a ripple from Flashpoint?

I keep waiting for Barry to meet Bart Allen and be super-annoyed that someone passed the name "Bartholomew" on. 

I do not like new mini Barry, at least not in that scene. He looked like three years younger than mini Iris. It was weird. 

[Terrafamilia]

"How do we afford this?"

That, Barry, is what we've all been asking.

[Lady Calypso]

Grant Gustin has always been good at the comedy, so it was nice to see that side to Barry again. It's the only "light" episode this season that I legitimately laughed at. Barry's insistence to go by Bart and his confusion on how he could afford their condo was hilarious. He asked a lot of questions that we've been wondering about for a while, as well.

Man, time travel is confusing, but at least they attempted to explain all the issues that have happened with time travel, like the Thawne Effect. Like Joe, I just didn't understand the logic of Barry and Savitar and the whole closed loop thing. I guess they'll never be able to explain it.

So, this is the first time where Iris took the lead, probably the most she's been present in an episode, and I loved it. And her and Barry got many good scenes. See, show? Candice Patton is a treasure who you shouldn't be mishandling like you have. The beginning of the episode was rocky, when we once again focused on Barry's mainpain over being Savitar and not hearing about how Iris feels about the reveal that her time remnant fiance kills her, but it did get better as Barry/Iris fell in love again. 

2 minutes ago, bettername2come said:

Wait, wouldn't Savitar not creating Wally cause he didn't remember it also mean he wouldn't have created Killer Frost? Wasn't it him and not just a ripple from Flashpoint?

Sadly, no. Killer Frost is a result of Flashpoint. She was never from Flashpoint like Kid Flash, so she was just a random effect when Barry went to change things back. 

Speaking of, her plot this week consisted of her helping the gang but really, it was to show the audience that she's totally redeemable and will totally be back by the end of the season. 

Oh, Julian. The last two times Caitlin had a boyfriend, they, well, died. Let's hope this third time is different, for your own sake.

Cisco got back to his old self, but I was not amused by his dickish behaviour toward Julian during the scene where they're going to zap Barry's brain.

HR and Tracy are...weird together. It's nice, but that kiss was all sorts of awkward. I don't think comic relief HR is long for this world. 

[Primal Slayer]

This was a BAD episode. 

It's like they couldn't come up with a way to keep this storyline going until the finale so they did a major side step and put the story on pause for a week.

[Hook75]

17 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Still doubting Julian's survival, though.

I hope he lives, I really like him.

It was a fun episode.

[CletusMusashi]

So... If Barry loses his memories, then Savitar will also have amnesia... yet he will still build a supervillain suit and become Savitar? Interesting title choice, because "cause and effect" is obviously the last thing these writers are interested in. In which case, maybe they should drop their obsession with time travel stories.

[quarks]

Show, if your characters need to say that the plot does not make any sense, perhaps you should pause and listen to them.

Otherwise:

1. Cisco doesn't like spinoffs.  In related news, do you know how hard I can roll my eyes? Very hard.

2. Loved the way Iris just stepped into a leadership role while everyone else was just running around panicking. More of this from Iris, please. 

3. So, how do you afford that loft apartment, Barry and Iris? Don't leave us hanging!

4. So, Team Flash starts the episode realizing that they have to keep Barry from finding out their plans in order to keep Savitar from stopping them....and ends the episode by showing Barry the almost-finished time trap thingie. Did you learn NOTHING from your own episode, Team Flash?

[Simba122504]

Do Iris fans actually like how they write her on the show?  She pretty much has no life outside Barry and TPTP just use her for neverending pep talks. Her death plays a big role this season but she has no say in any of it. The show fails its female characters. I mentioned in another thread how TPTB  haven't ruined Gypsy yet because she's not a full time cast member. She's still a badass with her own life because she's just a guest star at this point.  It's been 3 years and the show hasn't done right by Iris. She's their female lead. 

[bmoore4026]

Well, this episode was pointless

[Rachel RSL]

Ah, this episode brought back memories of the fun show that this used to be. Amnesiac Barry is, by far, my favourite Barry. Iris should have kept him. And Cisco's hair just gets more epic every week!

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

Man, time travel is confusing, but at least they attempted to explain all the issues that have happened with time travel, like the Thawne Effect. Like Joe, I just didn't understand the logic of Barry and Savitar and the whole closed loop thing. I guess they'll never be able to explain it.

Me during that scene: "I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. Oh, thank God...Cisco is going to draw it out for us...I STILL DON'T GET IT!" I hate that I'm not smart enough to understand a CW show. But props to all you smarties who explained it all in last week's thread!

1 hour ago, bettername2come said:

I do not like new mini Barry, at least not in that scene. He looked like three years younger than mini Iris. It was weird. 

Yeah, I noticed that too. Kind of an odd casting choice.

Edited May 10, 2017 by Rachel RSL

[Lady Calypso]

16 minutes ago, quarks said:

4. So, Team Flash starts the episode realizing that they have to keep Barry from finding out their plans in order to keep Savitar from stopping them....and ends the episode by showing Barry the almost-finished time trap thingie. Did you learn NOTHING from your own episode, Team Flash?

Yeah, pretty much my mindset. If you don't want Barry to know the plan so Barritar doesn't....just don't tell or show Barry anything! In fact, why didn't they just keep Barry like this until the day after Iris' death? Just chill out until June. Teach Barry how to be The Flash. If he went through a learning period once, he can do it again! Of course they inserted a Big Fire with a conveniently missing Mick Rory ripoff for them to not just leave Barry as is. Seriously, I was with Iris on wanting to keep amnesiac Barry, but for the sole reason that the losses would be outweighed by the gains. Oh no, so Wally doesn't become Kid Flash. Is that supposed to be a negative? I mean, I like Wally as Kid Flash now, but only because he's gone back to his supporting character role. Savitar's running around screaming "Who am I?" would have eventually led to a paradox that, as they implied, would have corrected itself with Savitar not killing Iris and everything pretty much going back to normal. I mean, they're already messing with time with this closed loop bullshit (AKA, we wrote ourselves into a tight corner and don't know how else to explain it because we can't hire actual scientists and researchers to give us a plausible reason for all of this since we made it up on the fly with zero factual thinking behind it) so what's another paradox and singularity and all that crap? 

Despite that, I still liked the episode a lot. I really did laugh at Amnesiac Barry. His reaction to Wally's "We're brothers" had me cackling when he looked down at his hand. I have to believe that it was a Grant Gustin improv moment. 

[thuganomics85]

So..... Savitar/Evil Barry is actually a Time Remanent, and the reason he is going to kill Iris (and do some other "mysterious" thing), is because he needs Barry to.... well, honestly, I don't know.  Really, even after Cisco drew the entire thing out, I still don't get what in the hell is going on here.  Time traveling hurts my head.  I did here though that Flashpoint caused this, so, once again, great job there, Barry.

Anyway, a goofy episode, and it was at least kind of fun.  Amnesiac Barry was entertaining, the Cisco/Julian duo was hilarious (really hope the latter isn't doomed, but I just don't see Tom Felton sticking around long term), H.R. and Tracy was surprisingly cute, and Candice Patton finally got more to do, and did a pretty good job, even during some of the dumber moments (come on, Iris.  I get Amnesiac Barry is charming, but you have to know keeping him like that would be bad news.)

Other pyro dude wasn't even worthy to mention alongside Mick Rory.  Instead of jail, his punishment should have been being handed off to the Legends, so Mick could how to do it correctly!

Caitlin/Killer Frost teams back up with Team Flash, since Savitar was also suffering from amnesia, and bails again despite Julian, Cisco, and Barry's pleas.  But her eyes briefly became normal, so I guess Caitlin is still in there?

The kid playing Young Barry really did look several years younger then the actress playing Young Iris, and it took me out of the scene.

Next though?  King Shark AND Snart?!!  They just need to throw in The Trickster, and it would be must see TV for me!

[Rachel RSL]

6 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

If you don't want Barry to know the plan so Barritar doesn't....just don't tell or show Barry anything!

THIS so much! Why do they even need Barry? They have Wally. Go get Jessie. Go get Jay. Go get Kara. Just let Barry chill in his ridiculously affordable loft for a few weeks with some Cheetos and Xbox.

 

37 minutes ago, quarks said:

In related news, do you know how hard I can roll my eyes? Very hard.

My eye roll moment was when Barritar's suit got up on it's own. Come on!

[GHScorpiosRule]

31 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Yeah, pretty much my mindset. If you don't want Barry to know the plan so Barritar doesn't....just don't tell or show Barry anything! In fact, why didn't they just keep Barry like this until the day after Iris' death? Just chill out until June. Teach Barry how to be The Flash. If he went through a learning period once, he can do it again! Of course they inserted a Big Fire with a conveniently missing Mick Rory ripoff for them to not just leave Barry as is. Seriously, I was with Iris on wanting to keep amnesiac Barry, but for the sole reason that the losses would be outweighed by the gains. Oh no, so Wally doesn't become Kid Flash. Is that supposed to be a negative? I mean, I like Wally as Kid Flash now, but only because he's gone back to his supporting character role. Savitar's running around screaming "Who am I?" would have eventually led to a paradox that, as they implied, would have corrected itself with Savitar not killing Iris and everything pretty much going back to normal. I mean, they're already messing with time with this closed loop bullshit (AKA, we wrote ourselves into a tight corner and don't know how else to explain it because we can't hire actual scientists and researchers to give us a plausible reason for all of this since we made it up on the fly with zero factual thinking behind it) so what's another paradox and singularity and all that crap? 

Despite that, I still liked the episode a lot. I really did laugh at Amnesiac Barry. His reaction to Wally's "We're brothers" had me cackling when he looked down at his hand. I have to believe that it was a Grant Gustin improv moment. 

THIS! But like you, despite it all, I really loved this episode because it gave me us Backdoor Pilot and Season 1A Barry Allen in all his nerdy goofiness and happiness. And so light!??

As for the scene where Wally tells Barry he's his brother? I laughed at the...toothy smile that Wally gave Barry as well as Barry looking down at his hand before sticking it in his pocket!??? It's the most I've ever liked Wally.

I hate the editing and promo ????, because the preview they had shown last week, made it look like Iris would be in a scene with RemnantEVUHLBarry because of her stroking his scarred face.? But that didn't happen so I have to assume it will be in the finale?

I do wish that though Barry lost his personal memories, that his science memories had stayed intact. But then we wouldn't have that as a plot point so Iris could help him regain his memories.

13 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

THIS so much! Why do they even need Barry? They have Wally. Go get Jessie. Go get Jay. Go get Kara. Just let Barry chill in his ridiculously affordable loft for a few weeks with some Cheetos and Xbox.

 

My eye roll moment was when Barritar's suit got up on it's own. Come on!

Can't get Jay because he's stuck in the Evil Speed Force.

And that suit getting up just proved why this show should needed an EVUHL Barry besides PLOT POINT! Just have Megatron be an AI project gone wrong. But I forgot-Kreisberg and his sycophants have a need to make sure that Barry is the biggest asshole that ever holed, and ignore who the character really is.????

Edited May 10, 2017 by GHScorpiosRule

[Rachel RSL]

11 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Can't get Jay because he's stuck in the Evil Speed Force.

Oh, that's right. Trying to figure out this show has melted my brain.

[legaleagle53]

17 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Can't get Jay because he's stuck in the Evil Speed Force.

And Kara's got her hands full trying to stop Queen Rhea and her Daxamite army from taking over Earth-38.

[Rachel RSL]

Yeah, which is why I would have contacted her for help months ago. *glares at Barry*

[KirkB]

53 minutes ago, quarks said:

4. So, Team Flash starts the episode realizing that they have to keep Barry from finding out their plans in order to keep Savitar from stopping them....and ends the episode by showing Barry the almost-finished time trap thingie. Did you learn NOTHING from your own episode, Team Flash?

To be fair to the show, I'm pretty sure Savitar already knows about the speed trap since Barry was already part of the group who approached the woman to build it for them, the same woman who Savitar sent Killer Frost after to try and stop her from building it. What they need to do is come up with a plan and not let Barry in on it, but since they'll need him to execute whatever they come up with that could be a problem.

Danielle P seems to enjoy playing Killer Frost. Though I don't imagine all that makeup is any fun.

I can follow most of the time travel stuff, but I'm not sure why Barry not remembering who he is took away Wally's powers. I think the idea was because he didn't remember who he was he never tried to recreate Flashpoint metas (which I still don't even understand, did they ever explain why he wanted that?) and so Wally never got his powers?

[GHScorpiosRule]

5 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

Yeah, which is why I would have contacted her for help months ago. *glares at Barry*

I'd glare at Cisco*, not just Barry. He could have reached out to Kara as well!

*Unashamed Barry Apologist.?

[RedVitC]

Did this episode move the plot forward? Probably not. Do I care? Not one bit. This was a bit of fresh air to be honest. All the angst has been getting to me and it was so fun to watch a Flash episode and laugh and also cry, but not in an angsty way. It was like seeing Barry and Iris fall in love again, and I realry enjoyed it. I'll get into the whole time remnant thing a later time (but are we really not getting anymore explanation than this show????)

Edit:  I moved my about whether Iris fans like how she is written discussion to the Lightning Rods forum. I don't want to derail the episode discussion. I'll just leave my conclusion: Luckily there is also a lot of love for Iris to balance it all out, but sometimes it can be frustrating because it feels like some people are looking for something to criticize. I guess my point is: there are legitimate complaints about the writing, but I think there is a lot to love about Iris just as she is.

Edited May 10, 2017 by RedVitC

[TDT]

2 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

And Kara's got her hands full trying to stop Queen Rhea and her Daxamite army from taking over Earth-38.

..

Spoiler

and plus her and her cousin will have ZOD!! to deal with in their season finale.

.

So new flamethrower guy is Heat Wave 2.0..would love to see him and Rory meet up should there be another crossovver

[ACW]

Scene I wanted to see:

"We're brothers."

"...Oh!  You must mean you're my future brother-in-law."

"That too."

"..."

[benteen]

It's nice to see Barry happy but that was a filler episode and I didn't pay much attention to it.

[VCRTracking]

Oh man, that scene where Iris is telling Barry her memory of when he first arrived at their house and she converted got me. I Candice Patton was wonderful.

Look I know there are complaints, very valid ones as RedvitC noted recently about Iris' role on the show. People hate that Iris does hardly anything but stand around the lab and "serve coffee" instead of being a reporter. That's she's nothing more than the girlfriend, there to support the hero. But dammit she's the BEST supportive superhero girlfriend ever.

I posted this in last week's episode thread and I have to post it here because I'm proud I was actually kind of right!

Quote

Barry has two sides to him, a very selfless side and a very selfish side. There's the selfless Barry who let the murder of his mother happen at the end of season 1 for the greater good. Then there's the selfish side who went back in time to stop it creating Flashpoint. We've also seen it in the future where he broke Iris' promise to look after Joe and just wallow alone in his own pain and self-pity. Likewise we've seen one time remnant of Barry be selfless in the season 2 finale who sacrificed himself to stop Zoom from destroying the Multiverse. I can imagine another time remnant being just as selfish and deciding to make everyone miserable including the original Barry in the past just so he could exist.

Edited May 10, 2017 by VCRTracking

[Artsda]

I loved Barry having amnesia. It was a fun lighter episode. 

[phoenics]

I did like the light tone of the episode and I loved Iris the entire episode.  CP is just too good for this show honestly.  She deserves better material too and more meat of the story.

It looks like I was right in that this is a paradox - a closed loop - a causal loop... Savitar exists, but to exist he has to kill Iris so Barry creates him.  Ugh.  Headache.

I love Iris so I really wish they would let her have a real PoV and real, internal feelings that aren't switched to "Support Barry Allen" at her own expense.  It's unrealistic that she seemed to have no real reaction to the Savitar reveal that BARRY grows into something that wants to kill her.  It's a bit frustrating to have Barry centered for everything.  It's like everything is about him and honestly I think that hurts the story.  It makes The Flash feel a whole lot smaller than it should.  I worried this storyline about Iris being in danger would happen with her on the sidelines and it looks like that's what has happened - meaning we don't get nearly enough about HER thoughts and feelings... not in a real way... and moments that should hit her like a ton of bricks ... the writers give us nothing.

And it's crazy that they have Iris comforting Barry so much - shouldn't she be allowed to get angry that he did this?  HE created Flashpoint and gave her a death sentence.  She can be angry about it and still forgive him.

But hater fans will never be okay with her being angry - even if it's justified.  I feel like the hater fans forced the writers into thinking they had to make Iris the most super supportive, bestest super hero girlfriend ever who never worries about herself ever - she's all about supporting her man... even to her own detriment and care for her internal life.  Iris deserves more and so do we.

At least we were right about Savitar being a time remnant who is angry that he didn't get the love, support that Barry did.  So basically they've "Cobalt-Blue"-d the time remnant.  He's angry he was rejected by Barry's family/friends after they defeated Savitar, since he was just the spare and so he went nuts.  We guessed this last week.

[tofutan]

I really got stuck on the "If they don't want Savitar to know, why don't they just not tell Barry and come up with a plan without him?" thing as well. Still, it was a mostly fun and cute episode, even if them HAVING to reverse it because of the convenient burning house felt a bit rushed. 

I don't even try to understand the time loop stuff anymore, I just assume it's actually bullshit if you ever thought about it seriously. 

HR/Tracy... why? 

It was interesting that Iris got her mini-arc of "naw, I'm tempted to leave him clueless because that makes him happy" to then changing her mind on it. I actually wondered if that would piss some haters off that she would even think of that in the first place. 

Edited May 10, 2017 by tofutan

[phoenics]

I do.  Racism won.  It happens a lot with black characters.  Writers feel pressure to make them "perfect" to avoid the hate and to avoid stereotypes.

[phoenics]

Following you there...

Edited May 10, 2017 by phoenics

[Bats27]

Also of course it's being reminded of the men in her life that gets through to Caitlin. They really don't know what to do with her otherwise it would seem.  Well that and "arbitrarily goes evil because her powers make her so for reasons that we refuse to properly explain."

Edited May 10, 2017 by Bats27

[Trini]

More thoughts later, but look at the showrunners PLAYING THEMSELVES. They KNOW how to be great, but refuse. This is the show we could have, the show everyone fell in love with in the beginning, but they wanna have an evil speedster murder someone every season. Can the writers for this one write ALL the episodes? Thanks.
 

4 hours ago, Terrafamilia said:

"How do we afford this?"

That, Barry, is what we've all been asking.

3 hours ago, quarks said:

3. So, how do you afford that loft apartment, Barry and Iris? Don't leave us hanging!

Y'all, Barry is rich. He owns STAR Labs. And he probably makes a good salary from CCPD, seeing as how he's one of only two CSIs for all of Central City. Plus maybe inheritance from his parents.

Edited May 10, 2017 by Trini

[BkWurm1]

3 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

Ah, this episode brought back memories of the fun show that this used to be. Amnesiac Barry is, by far, my favourite Barry. Iris should have kept him. And Cisco's hair just gets more epic every week!

Me during that scene: "I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. Oh, thank God...Cisco is going to draw it out for us...I STILL DON'T GET IT!" I hate that I'm not smart enough to understand a CW show. But props to all you smarties who explained it all in last week's thread!

Yeah, I noticed that too. Kind of an odd casting choice.

Brains have nothing to do with it.  There's nothing to get.  Time remnants are a conceit that the show keeps changing the explanation for.  Barry didn't create a duplicate of himself when he defeated Zoom.  He went back in time and got his past self to come forward and die.  That's how they explained it with Zoom with how he faked Jay's (his) death.  Why that didn't also erase him in the present they never explained.  

Now they are trying to pretend that time remnants are the same thing as time aberrations like Dr. Stein's daughter but no, a time aberration was something created when the time stream was messed with and changed in a way it shouldn't have been, meaning that the LoT crew would in theory undo the change to return to the way the timeline was before. 

Time remnants were never before just some duplicate that Barry spun off while running.  A time remnant was just Barry from the past.  Barry from 2017 going to 2024 was from that Barry's perspective a time remnant.  A time remnant was not a new copy.  The one that survived Savitar should have just gone back to his original time and yes, then Barry would then have a scar on his face in the future as well.  

But fine, let's put ALLLLLLL of that aside.  

So per this new time remnant explanation, Barry just popped out a bunch of copies like he was gremlin that got fed after midnight who had all his same memories.  And the one that survived, he's been injured in the service of the goal of putting Savitar away. And his thanks?  Everyone including Barry himself treats him like dirt and shuns him. How are any of these people besides Iris supposed to be heroes?  These are really, really crappy people.  And Barry is the worst.

I think if I was more invested in this show this might be my quitting point.  Do they not understand how much of a monster they've written?  I mean, they have to know, Savitar is the big bad but the part they are trying to pretend is that it's not our Barry Allen.  YES IT IS!!!  ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Apart from that and the weekly dose of Iris isn't allowed to have her own POV (though she came close this week) and of course Caitlin going evil for no reason (and this week was so much worse because she pretty much was Caitlin, just with a more fun look) I liked the episode.  It was funny.  Apart from some minor nitpicks about why Julian couldn't have testified instead of Barry and the part where if they'd just waited to restore Barry's memories after the day that Savitar was going to kill Iris (thus breaking the unbroken loop, meaning that Iris would get to live) I liked the episode.  Wally loses his powers.  Oh well.  Heat Monger burns down a building.  See Julian, the other CSI guy, testifying instead. 

Still, I enjoyed Caitlin with more attitude in the lab.  (Can't they just cure whatever turns her evil and let her keep the cold power?)   Thought blank Barry and Iris were cute together.  As were Wells and Tracy.  (Still curious what face she sees when they are kissing).  It was entertaining.  The Flash really could use more silly episodes

Speaking of silly, King Shark AND Capt Cold?  Looking forward to that.  Not looking forward to the next imbecilic explanation the show tries to push.  I know the rest of this Savitar arc is just going to bug me over an over. I'm going to try VERY hard to just get through the rest of this season and hope for the best next year. 

Edited May 10, 2017 by BkWurm1

[Trini]

My own headcanon is that STAR Labs still gets money from patents/etc., Cisco sells inventions on the side, and Caitlin does consulting for Mercury Labs. Too bad that museum idea only lasted an episode.

[BkWurm1]

16 minutes ago, doram said:

Yeah, Barry has to be independently wealthy. His family was upper-middle class and he apparently had no close relatives since he ended up with the Wests (or no one wanted to claim a murderer's son... yikes!) so I imagine he came into some form of inheritance / insurance policy from his mother when he came of age. When Henry's sentence was overturned, he probably got some sort of settlement from the government (I have no idea how it works but I imagine that if someone served time for wrongful conviction, he should get something as compensation), and he probably left that and whatever else he had to his name to Barry when he died. Then Eobard left STAR Labs and Harrison Wells's money to Barry. With his brains, he probably got a scholarship through college and until he got the loft, he lived extremely frugally - moving back to Joe's, and then squatting at Cisco's. 

Of course, we shouldn't think too much about the fact that STAR Labs doesn't generate income, and Barry has to pay living wages to Cisco, Caitlin, HR - and maybe Julian as part-time? - as well as heat, electricity, the latest tech and materials for their inventions, stock a medical bay that can treat human and metas both, and cover repairs from meta human attacks and breaches between worlds. 

He should have some money now since Wells left him everything, but I imagine any money they got from his mom's insurance went toward paying his father's defense fund.  

[ruby24]

The lighthearted episodes are always the best ones. They need to take a cue from this and remember to craft an entire season more in the spirit of Season 1 for next year. I have to think they notice the effect.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

"I know you're still in there Caitlin.  I love you.  I'll do anything to fix you."  Translation:  Buh-bye Julian.  As in, he'll do something that will 'fix' Caitlin but will result in his death and we'll get a good chunk of the first part of next season dealing with an over-angsty Dr Snow as she deals with her actions and such as KF during the time frame of the last few eps of this season.  CW at its finest.  Another CW hallmark, this lady's been in love 3 times...... in 3 seasons.

Have to say, about the fight scene at the beginning;  Barry's really beating himself up about all this.  *insert bad joke drum sound effect here*

HR trying to get his groove thang on when the 'SF bazooka' should be the top priority.  Not surprising in the slightest.

[Bats27]

You know if they're going to make Caitlin's character all about the men in her life, they could at least give us a Danielle Panabaker love scene.  I mean even Mad Men did that.

[katifantastico]

1 hour ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

Have to say, about the fight scene at the beginning;  Barry's really beating himself up about all this.  *insert bad joke drum sound effect here*

 

[waving feather]

I would love for Cisco and Caitlin to be endgame. They had so much chemistry in that scene when he was trying to reminisce about their time together in star labs to Killer Frost. The scene Julian declared his love for her pales in comparison.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

2 hours ago, katifantastico said:

 

Awesome.  Thanks.

[Airraz0r]

I did watch this episode & found it to be a chore because I didn't like the way they wrote Iris' character, not to mention about how she dated Eddie before then. She was trying to re-start Barry's memory, but there should've been better ways to do so.  So Savitar is a time remnant that is still around because of Flashpoint.

Killer Frost showing up was a good thing cause Savi lost his mind when Barry lost his as well. During which Cisco brought up something about ther particel accelerator how Wells gave them a hard time. "Take Charge" I think, it had an effect on Caitlin, who is trying to take back her own body( just notice her eyes).

Aside from that, the writers put themselves & some of the cast into a corner, especially this close towards the season finale.

[phoenics]

5 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Now they are trying to pretend that time remnants are the same thing as time aberrations like Dr. Stein's daughter but no, a time aberration was something created when the time stream was messed with and changed in a way it shouldn't have been, meaning that the LoT crew would in theory undo the change to return to the way the timeline was before. 

 

The way I absorbed what they said last night was that Savitar was both a time remnant AND an aberration.  Initially he was just a time remnant, but when he lived, the team treated him like he was an aberration because he didn't die.

So the "aberration" thing - it's not clear whether or not he was a true aberration a la Stein's daughter, after Barry did Flashpoint, or whether he was simply a time remnant that didn't die fighting Savitar as expected.

So I get this closed loop thing - where Savitar existed and then TimeRemnant Barry goes back in time to become Savitar after being created to fight Savitar.  I get that - it's sort of standard time loopiness.

What I don't fully understand is why Flashpoint was necessary for this to happen?  Is it that there are an infinite number of ways for Savitar to be created and Flashpoint created THIS particular origin story for Savitar?  If so - how did Savitar come to be in the pre-Flashpoint storyline?  And was that Savitar still TimeRemnant Barry?

What's funny about this is before this episode, some fans on tumblr had a hilarious scenario of Iris having both Barritar and Barry - Barry fought crime while Barritar sexed up Iris (while paying villains to keep Barry/Flash busy so he couldn't be home with Iris).  Haha funny - but it did beg the question of what to do with 2 Barry's.  

The main issue, imo, is that there really cannot be 2 Barry's... also - why aren't the time wraiths after Savitar?

And what is the other thing he needs besides Iris' death?  To lock Barry in the Speed Force?  

There can be only one!

[waving feather]

I would take all the filler, fluffy episodes like these if Barry is more light-hearted. I'm so tired of the angst this season. 

[Quark]

I'm going to be very upset if Iris does die. She is so wonderful.