S05.E02: Fuck, Marry, Frieda

[Cranberry]

Maria convenes a special assembly in the chapel as the inmates plot their next move. Frieda makes use of the survival skills she learned as a kid.

[Chairperson Meow]

We get Frieda's back story in this episode.  Also, the guards are found by the inmates.  

[SzmuttyPratfall]

Was the sexual assault as theater sequence supposed to make me really hate Maria? Cause it worked. When Luschek and the black guard were off to the side was it implied they already had their cavity search.

I get all the women had gone through those searches but that was so... Public

[Lady Calypso]

2 hours ago, SzmuttyPratfall said:

Was the sexual assault as theater sequence supposed to make me really hate Maria? Cause it worked. When Luschek and the black guard were off to the side was it implied they already had their cavity search.

I get all the women had gone through those searches but that was so... Public

Yeah. I think the issue with me fully feeling sympathetic for the inmates and be on their side with what they're doing is that most of these guards are innocent. They haven't done anything wrong except for doing a job that they applied for. Sure, the way that the inmates are searched when they arrive is not comfortable, but they're all in prison for a reason. These guards are assigned to keep an eye on the inmates and make sure that they're not beating each other up or doing anything that will ensure more time. And the inmates are already holding them hostage and using scare tactics. Now inserting public humiliation in front of the other inmates through strip searches for no reason, other than they find it as revenge? I'm really, really glad there are several of the inmates who feel uncomfortable with it. From Alex walking out on the riot to Brooke being disgusted with what she was seeing to Taystee not wanting to participate with what they're doing to the guards, I think that it is supposed to be polarizing. 

I know there are some of the guards who abuse their power and deserve to be punished for their actions, but these certain guards that they've taken hostage don't deserve it. And it's pretty disturbing when several of the inmates are enjoying it. Seeing as this is only episode two, I can only imagine how much worse it'll get and how my opinions of all the inmates will change. It's an interesting arc to take, because it'll show the nasty sides of the inmates as well as how they react to certain situations.

For example, are we supposed to enjoy the idea of Freida "poisoning" two guards, or scaring them into thinking that they're dying? Because even though I really can't remember if those two guards even showed up much last season so I didn't particularly care about them in general, I do care about the overall treatment of people, and the only concern those inmates had were getting out to join everyone in the riot. 

I really like new Indian doctor. I laughed when he whispered to Sophia "I think it's just her finger" about Daya's "gun" in her pocket. And Suzanne has someone even crazier than her: her Crazy Ex Girlfriend, whose name I can't recall, literally put Humph into a stroke (I guess by blowing bubbles into his IV?). Again, he kind of deserved it, but also, damn. I forgot how crazy that girl is. To do it without knowing exactly what would happen, and doing it without hesitation. 

[Helena Dax]

Wow, that was quite disturbing.  I mean, I knew Humph was a goner, but raping the guards? Because fingering them without their consent is rape. 

The new nurse is very cute and I laughed a couple of times, but this episode made me uncomfortable. I can't rot for anyone,

Edited June 9, 2017 by Helena Dax

[TiredMe]

So far not particularly enjoying the season. I know it's only two,episodes but not great.

[Blue Plastic]

This was a very uncomfortable episode.  The rape-y parts went on for too long.  And they're all being kept in just their underwear for too long.  It bothers me.

Whatever Suzanne's girlfriend's name is, she is evil.  Yes, Humps is too, but that doesn't make what the girlfriend has done okay.  I hate to see Suzanne trust her.

[Daisy]

I like the Frieda bits.
I didn't have the issue about her scaring them because it was a way to get out - and she basically said it - you honestly think the prison pantry was going to grow wolfsbane? 

I liked the Cute Indian Nurse and Sophia.

everything else i'm not enjoying. 

[Ceindreadh]

2 hours ago, Daisy said:

I like the Frieda bits.
I didn't have the issue about her scaring them because it was a way to get out - and she basically said it - you honestly think the prison pantry was going to grow wolfsbane? 

I liked the Cute Indian Nurse and Sophia.

everything else i'm not enjoying. 

And besides, Frieda is resourceful enough that she probably could have whipped up a weapon to kill them outright if she'd wanted to. 

[Daisy]

1 hour ago, Ceindreadh said:

And besides, Frieda is resourceful enough that she probably could have whipped up a weapon to kill them outright if she'd wanted to. 

yeah. not that she's not capable of it - of course, but i think it was just to show exactly how resourceful she is. 
So was her daddy mentally unwell or was it just super paranoia during the cold war? 

(were the things on Freida leeches as well? was that the whole 'don't think you know anything? or just a oops i shoulda stuck to the plan?)

[chitowngirl]

Plus, killing the guards wouldn't have gotten them out of the pantry. She had to do something to get them to unlock the cage.

Edited June 10, 2017 by chitowngirl

[njoh]

what "innocent" guards are you guys referring to? because most have either done messed up things or turned a blind eye when other guards did. that doesn't make them innocent to me.

that being said, i agree about the sexual assault. Maria used to be one of my fav prisoners, but she has been on a slow decline since last season. There is no way that she and some of the other prisoners will walk away from this riot without additional charges. They're going too far.

[Lunula]

I really hope this season improves - drastically. We got through the first episode and came away underwhelmed. We ended up making it through half of episode two before we looked at each other and said, "This seems never-ending." I was tired and just couldn't bring myself to slog through the second half.

I am not enjoying the prison riot story one tiny little bit. Literally the only thing remotely interesting is the new nurse and Sophia. 

Guess I will finish watching tonight, though I am not looking forward to the experience.

[wonderchica05]

Suzanne's ex's eye is seriously disturbing. It looks like it's on a whole other part of her face.

I laughed out loud when the nurse pointed out that Daya's gun was her finger. Way too many people suspect she doesn't have it anymore. I think Gloria has it. Why is the nurse still there? It's like he's in a bubble- no one is bothering him, and he didn't try to get out that we know of. Sophia has stepped right up to the Grey's Anatomy plate.

 

Frieda's bunker has stretched my belief. A hidey hole, sure. A whole fully stocked room? She's been in prison a long time, though.

[OoogleEyes]

I'm confused. Did Frieda already have a prepers shelter in the prison or did all of that happen within the hours since the takeover?

[TGinKY]

I was confused a out Frieda as well. Did they ever reveal how she got such a long sentence? It's been at least as long as the seventies, so 40 years or so??

[ExplainItAgain]

I've been binging this show for weeks and I'm up to this episode.

Right now, my guess is Gloria has the gun. No doubt its going to show up at some opportune moment.

The Frieda room really stretched the boundaries of believable. The girl who played little Frieda was pretty spot on - the casting on this show is unreal.

The blond guard, McCullough, seems to be overhearing a lot of side conversation. I'm over Linda - she seems rather calm.

Curious about what Piscatella's tattoo is about...

[Kel Varnsen]

4 hours ago, TGinKY said:

I was confused a out Frieda as well. Did they ever reveal how she got such a long sentence? It's been at least as long as the seventies, so 40 years or so??

She said last season she shot a cop with his own gun, before realizing she may not have confessed to that crime. I always assumed she got life for multiple murders, was originally in max, but then got transferred to Litchfield either because of good behavior or just because at her age she is much less of a threat.

The bunker didn't bug me that much. It seems like it would be crazy in real life, but in the world of the show, not that much. I mean even before the prison went private, it was brutally understaffed and really big. So I could see a prisoner who had been there for awhile finding a basement storage area no one was aware of and then slowly building up a stash of stuff down there. Plus consider that Frieda is friends with Red who used to run the kitchen and could basically smuggle in anything.

Also the bunker isn't really that much crazier than the drainage tunnel under the greenhouse.

[Kid]

On 6/10/2017 at 5:38 PM, Lunula said:

I really hope this season improves - drastically. We got through the first episode and came away underwhelmed. We ended up making it through half of episode two before we looked at each other and said, "This seems never-ending." I was tired and just couldn't bring myself to slog through the second half.

I am not enjoying the prison riot story one tiny little bit. Literally the only thing remotely interesting is the new nurse and Sophia. 

Guess I will finish watching tonight, though I am not looking forward to the experience.

I thought it was just me! I'm up to episode five and I think this season is really awful.  In my opinion, it definitely is not as good as the last 4 seasons.

Edited June 12, 2017 by Kid

[kieyra]

5 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

She said last season she shot a cop with his own gun, before realizing she may not have confessed to that crime. I always assumed she got life for multiple murders, was originally in max, but then got transferred to Litchfield either because of good behavior or just because at her age she is much less of a threat.

The bunker didn't bug me that much. It seems like it would be crazy in real life, but in the world of the show, not that much. I mean even before the prison went private, it was brutally understaffed and really big. So I could see a prisoner who had been there for awhile finding a basement storage area no one was aware of and then slowly building up a stash of stuff down there. Plus consider that Frieda is friends with Red who used to run the kitchen and could basically smuggle in anything.

Also the bunker isn't really that much crazier than the drainage tunnel under the greenhouse.

It didn't seem that outlandish to me, based on my father's descriptions of being in a minimum security Federal "camp" in the 90s. I've probably told this story in the OITNB forums before, but inmates there snuck out to get pizza and beer. (They got caught, but only on the way back *in*.) Between government bureaucracy and basic human laziness, I'm sure all sorts of weird shit goes down.

I just binged the first three episodes (don't worry, I know I'm in the episode 2 thread), and I'm really enjoying this season's setup so far. Even the parts where some of the inmates are actually  awful people--and I think in some cases, especially Daya and Maria, the point is that prison is what turned them into awful people. I think it's an interesting (and realistic) choice to show that some percentage of the inmates just go full-on dystopian nastiness. 

What I actually find less realistic is how calm some people are. Piper and Alex's running commentaries are funny but they're way too chill. I would be in 24/7 panic attack mode. I also think more fights and violence would have broken out. Then again, that would be too bleak for a multi-episode arc in what's supposed to be a comedy. 

Edited June 12, 2017 by kieyra

[uoflfan]

Freida was my favorite this season.  Gotta love a prepper.  I'm personally hoping and prepping for a Zombie Apocalypse but same/same.

Edited June 12, 2017 by uoflfan

[kieyra]

14 minutes ago, uoflfan said:

Freida was my favorite this season.  Gotta love a prepper.  I'm personally hoping and prepping for a Zombie Apocalypse but same/same.

I'm far more concerned about a Handmaid's Tale-type scenario at this point. :/ 

[wonderchica05]

I think the horrific behavior towards the guards is to be expected, really. Remember the Stanford prison study? People who suddenly have a lot of power, paired with the peer pressure and gang-like mentality tend to do terrible things. Add the fact that a lot of these women have such difficult backgrounds, criminal mindsets, etc. and it seems inevitable. 

[uoflfan]

9 minutes ago, kieyra said:

 

24 minutes ago, uoflfan said:

Freida was my favorite this season.  Gotta love a prepper.  I'm personally hoping and prepping for a Zombie Apocalypse but same/same.

I'm far more concerned about a Handmaid's Tale-type scenario at this point. :/ 

 

Well there's that, too, which is why I fled the U.S. and moved to a gated community in a village of 500 people on a Carribbean island last February, fearing that Trump would be elected.  It's very easy to go off the radar when you escape the U.S.  I'm hoarding bottled water and cash.  Food won't be a problem since we have fresh fruit and an ocean.  There are no guns but I have plenty of other weapons.  Still hoping for the ZA.

Edited June 12, 2017 by uoflfan

[Mrs OldManBalls]

20 hours ago, TGinKY said:

I was confused a out Frieda as well. Did they ever reveal how she got such a long sentence? It's been at least as long as the seventies, so 40 years or so??

I vaguely recall her admitting to killing someone...or maybe more than one someone? 

20 hours ago, ExplainItAgain said:

I've been binging this show for weeks and I'm up to this episode.

Right now, my guess is Gloria has the gun. No doubt its going to show up at some opportune moment.

The Frieda room really stretched the boundaries of believable. The girl who played little Frieda was pretty spot on - the casting on this show is unreal.

The blond guard, McCullough, seems to be overhearing a lot of side conversation. I'm over Linda - she seems rather calm.

Curious about what Piscatella's tattoo is about...

Was it a W.P.? White Power? Can you be gay and be part of that group? 

[Dobian]

I'm only two episodes in so far, but this show seems to be dehumanizing a lot of the characters not to make a statement, but for comic purposes.  Which is kind of disturbing after four seasons of humanizing them.  Making comedy out of forcing a guy to have a stroke?  Huh?

I did like Frieda's back story.

[Dobian]

On ‎6‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 8:13 PM, OoogleEyes said:

I'm confused. Did Frieda already have a prepers shelter in the prison or did all of that happen within the hours since the takeover?

She had it all along.  That was the point of her back story, her dad was a survivalist and trained her.  For many years she has been squirreling away food and supplies in this secret location in anticipation of whatever apocalypse might come.  Not just a prison riot, but in her mind a possible nuclear attack or other world-ending scenario that her dad told her is coming.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Black Lattes Matter was of course such a heartbreaking moment with Taystee breaking down, saying that everything's a joke.

I admit I had to laugh when their video went viral but not in the way they were hoping. When they were making it I wondered why Cindy was standing right behind him and suspected something would come of that. 

[tennisgurl]

I'm pretty sure we were supposed to be disturbed by the strip searching of the prison guards. Most of the named inmates who we actually know (except for Maria and her cronies) looked pretty disturbed, or straight up said that this was getting messed up. This show can have serious tone problems, but I think here we are supposed to be getting a Prisoner Experiment kind of vibe.                                   

I liked the Frieta backstory, but I hope this show dosnt turn into Lost or Arrow with its increasing pointless flashbacks in the future (I swear to God if we get an episode dedicated to how Alex got her tattoos...)

Man, the nurse guy working with Sophia is super attractive! And he seems nice too, I hope he makes it out alright. And giving a person a stroke is really bad, but I'm pretty sure Humps is a serial killer, so if it had to be someone...

[joanne3482]

My only hope with the stroke thing was that Sophia wouldn't get blamed for it. He did tell her to put in the IV and said about the bubbles thing so they made it clear she understood what she was to be doing. 

18 hours ago, kieyra said:

Even the parts where some of the inmates are actually  awful people--and I think in some cases, especially Daya and Maria, the point is that prison is what turned them into awful people. I think it's an interesting (and realistic) choice to show that some percentage of the inmates just go full-on dystopian nastiness. 

I think the hard part for me is that like Dobian said, they've spent 4 seasons humanizing these ladies. Many of these women were made desperate by their circumstances. Plenty of the women were hard - Vee, Miss Rosa, Freida, Mei - a lot of the others weren't 'like this' for lack of a better phrase. But maybe that's the point... they already had exhibited a willingness to commit a crime in their own self interest, it isn't too far down the rabbit hole to become full on mean girls.  

 

On 6/10/2017 at 8:11 AM, njoh said:

what "innocent" guards are you guys referring to? because most have either done messed up things or turned a blind eye when other guards did. that doesn't make them innocent to me.

Since they're using so many nameless/faceless guards as the prisoners it is hard to know if they were involved with anything. There are guards there 24/7 so it is hard to know if Piscatella's specific group (including Humps and Bailey - and not even Bailey really undertrained and clueless was he, but I remember there were others in the house that one time) were the bad apples or if all of Piscatella's people were awful. I know that there were probably other bad guards but without the show ever showing me them I can only presume that these guys were the average joes. Neither good nor bad - just doing a job and punching a clock.  Maybe they saw stuff... maybe they didn't. Maybe they didn't know what they saw. Maybe they weren't assigned to the areas where stuff was going down like the cafeteria where Blanca was standing. I can't judge them for what I don't know they may or may not have done so the story loses something to me. 

[PreBabylonia]

I really love Freida's theme music. Every time I hear it, it makes me think of someone that's part Girl Scout, part McGuyver. Her backstory was great, and a lot of credit must go to the actress that played her as a young girl. She is rapidly becoming my favourite character this season. 

[uoflfan]

On 6/12/2017 at 8:49 AM, Mrs OldManBalls said:

On 6/11/2017 at 11:50 AM, TGinKY said:

I was confused a out Frieda as well. Did they ever reveal how she got such a long sentence? It's been at least as long as the seventies, so 40 years or so??

I vaguely recall her admitting to killing someone...or maybe more than one someone? 

In season 4 when they were beginning interrogations for the guards murder, Freida was sure she'd be interrogated because of her record of killing 4 men in one year.  She also killed a cop with his own gun but couldn't remember if she'd been tried for that one.  

Freida cracks me up.  When Freida wanted to poison Lolly with the oleander leaves, Red said Freida had been wanting to use those damn leaves for a long time.  I think Freida killed quite a lot of people when she was a biker chick.

[Clanstarling]

On 6/10/2017 at 4:16 AM, Daisy said:

yeah. not that she's not capable of it - of course, but i think it was just to show exactly how resourceful she is. 
So was her daddy mentally unwell or was it just super paranoia during the cold war? 

(were the things on Freida leeches as well? was that the whole 'don't think you know anything? or just a oops i shoulda stuck to the plan?)

Daddy seemed mentally unwell (he mentioned something about hearing radio waves or something that proved the end was near) - which goes hand in hand with the paranoia. Yes, those things were leeches. I guess swimming in a leech filled lake was her mistake - I didn't quite follow.

On 6/11/2017 at 9:21 AM, ExplainItAgain said:

Curious about what Piscatella's tattoo is about...

I wondered if Red recognized it because of the tattoos the Russian gangs get. They all mean something specific. Though it didn't look like much to me - it looked like a script "D" .

On 6/12/2017 at 0:36 PM, tennisgurl said:

I liked the Frieta backstory, but I hope this show dosnt turn into Lost or Arrow with its increasing pointless flashbacks in the future (I swear to God if we get an episode dedicated to how Alex got her tattoos...)

Love the reference - it could only be worse if there was an episode about two inmates we've never met...

[Absurda]

I too am worried that Sophia will be blamed for Humps's stroke since she did the IV. I really hope it doesn't come to that, though.

[uoflfan]

On 6/12/2017 at 9:39 AM, Dobian said:

I did like Frieda's back story.

I would totally love an episode of Frieda's biker chick backstory when she went on her killing spree.  Killing 4 men in one year and killing a cop with his own gun is impressive.  More Freida, please.

[KarateKate]

21 hours ago, uoflfan said:

I would totally love an episode of Frieda's biker chick backstory when she went on her killing spree.  Killing 4 men in one year and killing a cop with his own gun is impressive.  More Freida, please.

And, don't forget, she cut off her husband's, um, well she Lorena Bobbitted him. With a dull knife. 

[Captanne]

Penis.  She cut off her husband's penis with a dull knife.

[Blakeston]

On 6/13/2017 at 9:37 PM, Clanstarling said:

Yes, those things were leeches. I guess swimming in a leech filled lake was her mistake - I didn't quite follow.

Frieda's father had warned her that once you realize you're lost, you're done for. I think after she went swimming on a lark, she realized she no longer had her bearings.

[Clanstarling]

1 minute ago, Blakeston said:

Frieda's father had warned her that once you realize you're lost, you're done for. I think after she went swimming on a lark, she realized she no longer had her bearings.

I'm not sure how she lost her bearings swimming, when as I recall, she had them before she went in the lake. It just confused me - then again I am no nature girl, much less a survivalist.

[mattie0808]

I thought the swim wound up delaying her getting back home significantly -- it would have delayed her anyway, and the leeches really screwed her over; I didn't think she got lost/confused, just slowed up because she chose to do something fun instead of focusing on the task at hand (getting back home as quickly as possible)?

[kissedbyarose]

I think the swimming interlude was to show that she got too over-confident. Earlier, her dad was testing her on the stars and she answers the questions correctly then he asked her how she would find her way on an overcast night. 

I'm thinking something along the lines of expect the unexpected was the lesson... and even the reason why she created that crazy bunker in the first place.

[Guest]

I figured the swimming was a 'mistake' because it was leisurely and she got hurt, though just mildly.  But I think in the nutty father's mind, it could've been worse.  Like 'don't let your guard down for a second because the world will dish out hurt, because it's out to get you.'

[kieyra]

On 6/12/2017 at 4:03 PM, joanne3482 said:

Since they're using so many nameless/faceless guards as the prisoners it is hard to know if they were involved with anything. There are guards there 24/7 so it is hard to know if Piscatella's specific group (including Humps and Bailey - and not even Bailey really undertrained and clueless was he, but I remember there were others in the house that one time) were the bad apples or if all of Piscatella's people were awful. I know that there were probably other bad guards but without the show ever showing me them I can only presume that these guys were the average joes. Neither good nor bad - just doing a job and punching a clock.  Maybe they saw stuff... maybe they didn't. Maybe they didn't know what they saw. Maybe they weren't assigned to the areas where stuff was going down like the cafeteria where Blanca was standing. I can't judge them for what I don't know they may or may not have done so the story loses something to me. 

It took me a rewatch of S4 to realize it, but the guards were all mostly complicit in the abuses last year or willingly turned a blind eye. For example, one of the dudes who gets blow-darted by Frieda was the same guard who forced Blanca to stand on the table for days in S4, part of what precipitated the riot. I admit I didn't remember most of them either, but they'd all been around for a while and they were all pretty awful. 

[CB4theWin]

Ok, so I just watched season 5 episode 2 of OITNB and I was wondering if anyone else shared my point of view on this matter. I don't think Frieda is a real inmate. Here's why: a) she has a bunker under the prison that looks awfully similar to the one she shared with her dad, b) she kisses the picture of her Mom from her flashback. You aren't allowed to bring possessions from home with you into prison. c) she's great at survival skills and the guards would notice when they did count that she wasn't there, but it wouldn't matter if she wasn't there for count because they'd have the correct count every night. Plus if the prison had been built on the bunker, she would adapt to pretending to be a prisoner to survive. It's just a theory I have. What do you think?