S10.E03: Thin Ice

[Tara Ariano]

Quote

London residents turn out for the 1814 Frost Fair, but revelers are disappearing through the frozen Thames.

[John Potts]

Well I'm loving this Season so far. Nice to see Bill just enjoying the frost fair (even enjoying random pies - you probably don't want to know what's in it) only for the Doctor to reveal that he was aware of the lights but she seemed to be having fun. It was great to see Bill bringing up The Doctor's blithe disregard for the deaths of children, only for him to point out that standing around crying doesn't stop other people getting killed. And did like the Doctor showing that while he may not care for individual humans, there are some humans he really despises (and yes, we all knew the villain was going to die horribly at that point). And I would have thought the Beast would have been described as a "lost whale" (notable, but not exceptionally weird) in the papers, however much drinking occurred at the Frost Fair.

As for the door Nardole was guarding at the end - I'm guessing it's The Master (well, Missy) that's behind it.

[ApathyMonger]

26 minutes ago, John Potts said:

As for the door Nardole was guarding at the end - I'm guessing it's The Master (well, Missy) that's behind it.

Yeah, it's possible that's too obvious, but I doubt it. I hope we don't have to wait all season to find out, especially if it is just Missy.

 

I hope we get to see Nardole go on some adventures again at some point, rather than waiting around the college while The Doctor and Bill go travelling.

[Eulipian 5k]

Is this a spoiler thread? The shows I'll on.

Edited April 30, 2017 by Eulipian 5k
Speling

[Lantern7]

The Master knocked four times. Maybe Missy snipped one off? Or maybe she's starting her theme music, but the record keeps skipping. "Oh, Missy! Oh, Missy!"

interesting premise . . . misunderstood beast exploited by an asshole who is a mere human. And urchins are involved. Also: alien fish poop. "No sh-!!"

"Wait, why weren't there huge headlines from 1814?" "Buffy rules." "Gotcha."

[clack]

I know that I'm giving this episode more thought than it deserves, but why is the Doctor -- familiar with pretty much all of human history -- outraged to the point of violence at a person voicing a racist opinion in 1814?

There must be widely held ideological beliefs and social attitudes present in 2017 that from the perspective of 2217 will seem highly objectionable. Let's say everyone 200 years from now is vegetarian, and believes that meat is murder -- would the Doctor be justified in throwing haymakers at folks eating a hamburger in 2017?

But the Doctor's perspective goes even wider than that. I mean, what would our current attitudes and beliefs look like from someone from a society 10,000 years in the future? Are there any of us who could pass moral muster from the perspective of a culture from 12,000 AD? Does everyone living now deserve a punch from a morally outraged Doctor?

[KirkB]

29 minutes ago, clack said:

I know that I'm giving this episode more thought than it deserves, but why is the Doctor -- familiar with pretty much all of human history -- outraged to the point of violence at a person voicing a racist opinion in 1814?

My guess is because he was talking to a friend. His companion. The Doctor couldn't give two shakes to about that guy saying something like that to the average man or woman on the street, but Bill is someone he knows and that basically makes it personal.

While I wouldn't want to see the same plot every week, I like episodes where the monster isn't really a monster. Sure, it killed people, but it didn't seem to take any particular pleasure in of it. It seemed to just be an animal.

As for who or what is behind the door, the Master/Missy seems almost too obvious. That doesn't mean it isn't her, or him, or whatever, but the last time we saw Missy she was on the Dalek world. I'm not sure how she would get to Earth or why the Doctor would lock her up.

[Toaster Strudel]

I wasn't too thrilled when Bill was arguing with the Doctor and started with the drama... I've had enough of that with Clara for a lifetime. 

[Locutus]

Unless it's Simm's Master in there.

[companionenvy]

2 hours ago, clack said:

 

I know that I'm giving this episode more thought than it deserves, but why is the Doctor -- familiar with pretty much all of human history -- outraged to the point of violence at a person voicing a racist opinion in 1814?

 

That level of racism would have already been unusual in 1814 London. Many if not most people would have taken for granted that black people were generally less intelligent than whites, but by the nineteenth century there was already a prominent abolition movement in Britain arguing strenuously and fairly effectively for the inherent humanity and, perhaps even equality of people of African descent. After a key court ruling in 1772, slavery was more or less finished in England proper, although  it continued in British colonies until the 1830s. And while most blacks in England were either domestic servants or members of the urban poor, some rose to higher status. Even interracial marriages, though rare, were not unheard of or considered terribly scandalous, except among the upper classes. 

It wouldn't be unexpected for Lord Whatshisname to have chided Bill -- whom he probably assumed to be the Doctor's servant, as almost anyone of the era would have -- for not being more respectful in his presence, but his display of outrageously racist fury, under such circumstances, would have been considered rude and even shocking by his contemporaries. So, the doctor was right in not allowing the time and place to give the man a pass.

[hnygrl]

I loved it. Loved it loved it loved it.

I could probably come up with something more eloquent than that, but following that beautifully worded post by my new hero and best friend companionenvy,  I won't even try. And we all know it's the master/missy in that damn vault.  When the time comes. we're all gonna be like "really Moffatt? Seriously?

But maybe not. So far, 3 episodes in and not a dud in the bunch.

Did I mention I loved it? Cause I did!

[tessaray]

Bill is just what the Doctor and the audience have needed. I'm shocked that all 3 episodes of S10 to date have been such fun, especially after the last season.

[Locutus]

It was all Clara's fault.

[John Potts]

3 hours ago, companionenvy said:

That level of racism would have already been unusual in 1814 London.

That's an extremely optimistic view of people's opinions. Sure, the British Parliament voted to end the slave trade in 1807 and slavery didn't exist within the British isles since Norman times (and even the feudal system had been largely abandoned by about the 14th Century, thanks to the Black Death). But even well into the 1960s (possibly later) it was still acceptable to show signs saying, "No dogs, blacks or Irish" (the first Racial Equality Act wasn't until 1965). So while nobody would assume Bill was a slave, she certainly could expect a lot of racist comments (obviously, I'm glad the BBC chose NOT to air a load of offensive language, but it was an anachronistically progressive portrayal of Regency London).

Edited April 30, 2017 by John Potts

[Chaos Theory]

Bill continues to be a breath of fresh air.  The seemingly annoying and silly questions actually do show insight.  Like all companions this was the episode where she sees The Doctor for who and what he is both good and bad.  

I like the idea that The Doctor with all his age, experience and power needs someone to tell him what to do.

9 hours ago, Toaster Strudel said:

I wasn't too thrilled when Bill was arguing with the Doctor and started with the drama... I've had enough of that with Clara for a lifetime. 

All the companions since Rose herself including Donna Noble have had the argument of saving people even when it was impossible. I am not sure if Amy Pond had it but I know Rory got pissed at his pendent for dropping in on places blind.

As for who's behind the door Missy is the most obvious answer but my guess is we will get clues in the next few episodes and it will end up being some other great enemy of the Doctor's and at some point (we will also see in future episodes) trapping him/her/it/them became the least worst option.

Edited April 30, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[Primetimer]

Hard-earned wisdom from Pete, who discovered that some time travel mistakes are too much to be borne.

View the full article

[benteen]

I really enjoyed this episode and I'm shocked too with how much I've been enjoying the new so far.  I LOVE Bill.  She's a breath of fresh air and fun.  Even her questions to the Doctor worked and getting him to admit that he had killed before was impressive.  The Doctor too seems far more fun this season and that works for Capaldi.

I love the set and the use of the frost fair, which I admit I had never heard of until this week.  Even Suthcliffe proved to be a good villain.

This was the second episode written by Sarah Dollard, who also did Face the Raven last season.  Both episodes were excellent and like Jamie Mathison, I hope she stays around when the new regime takes over.

Edited April 30, 2017 by benteen

[clack]

When the show goes into the past like this, I have a problem taking satisfaction in the death of the villain.

Because guess what? All those characters died. All those cute children died, probably within the next 40 years( and some much sooner than that)-- and most died more horribly than Lord Dickhead getting eaten by a snake. They suffered through long, lingering illnesses : consumption, cancer, whatever.

The show tends to take whatever year an episode was made -- 2017, say -- as the "present", as the ground from which are launched journeys into the past or the future. But to the Doctor, a 2,000 year-old time traveler, 2017 is no more the present than is 1814 or 2814. He can save Sarah Jane's life multiple times, but she's still going to die of cancer at age 60.

[Kelda Feegle]

Pretty sure this is the third time this story has been done, the space whale harnessed for transport in Pond days and the beast being sliced for meat in Torchwood? Is this the first time The Doctor has punched someone in this way, as in not a trying to escape scenario or whatever,  just a smackdown?

[Chaos Theory]

23 minutes ago, Kelda Feegle said:

Pretty sure this is the third time this story has been done, the space whale harnessed for transport in Pond days and the beast being sliced for meat in Torchwood? Is this the first time The Doctor has punched someone in this way, as in not a trying to escape scenario or whatever,  just a smackdown?

I think it is a staple for science fiction shows.  Star Trek TNG started with the premise of an alien being harnessed for power.    It's a good way to talk about slavery and forced labor without actually talking about slavery and of course the people who benefit.

[companionenvy]

7 hours ago, John Potts said:

That's an extremely optimistic view of people's opinions. Sure, the British Parliament voted to end the slave trade in 1807 and slavery didn't exist within the British isles since Norman times (and even the feudal system had been largely abandoned by about the 14th Century, thanks to the Black Death). But even well into the 1960s (possibly later) it was still acceptable to show signs saying, "No dogs, blacks or Irish" (the first Racial Equality Act wasn't until 1965). So while nobody would assume Bill was a slave, she certainly could expect a lot of racist comments (obviously, I'm glad the BBC chose NOT to air a load of offensive language, but it was an anachronistically progressive portrayal of Regency London

Racist comments and slurs? Sure. But this wasn't someone shouting "Get out of my way [insert slur]" as he passed her in the street,which wouldn't have been that odd then or, sadly, utterly unheard of now. This was someone responding with frothing rage to the idea that a black person -- whose apparent status as a gentleman's servant in the presence of her employer should have given her some insulation from ill-treatment -- would sit down in his presence. I maintain that, based on everything I know about the period, this would have been atypical (not nonexistent, of course). 

It is impossible to know exactly what level of day-to-day racism a black person in 1814 London was likely to encounter. But I disagree that this representation was anachronistically progressive. In the mid-nineteenth century, African-American visitors like Frederick Douglass and Harriet Jacobs went as far as to claim that they had encountered little or no racism in England. Their experiences -- in which they would have been mostly ensconced in liberal circles -- are not likely to be fully representative, and they had political motivation to exaggerate the progressivism of England compared to America. Even so, it suggests that they probably weren't the target of frequent slurs when they walked through London. In that and other respects, certain periods of the twentieth century, for a variety of social and cultural reasons, were likely more racist than certain periods of the nineteenth. 

In any case, I think the original point that Lord Sutcliffe's comments shouldn't have been waved off as a period-typical inevitability, still stands.

[GenieinTX]

This must have been why Moff was pissed at BBC for revealing the Master in promos.  Now we all know who is in the vault and there is no suspense any more.  Eh, I'll still enjoy the ride.

I'm loving Bill.  The delight she took at walking on the Thames, at all of the Frost Fair was delightful.  I'm a bit annoyed at the fact that we know the Doctor had been to that Frost Fair multiple times and this ep makes it looks like he never realized anything was wrong before.  And the sonic worked on a rope?  Really?  But I'll forgive it because it was a fun episode.  Maybe he always intended on coming back and figuring it out. 

Edited April 30, 2017 by GenieinTX

[Chaos Theory]

I think it is interesting (as long as it doesn't get too heavy handed) that the show is acknowledging Bill's race.  I am not even sure if they did all that much with Martha Jones.  However with the current climate it is an interesting way to deal with a black person traveling around in time.   I know Timeless does a fairly good job with it but I stopped watching that show for other reasons.  Doctor Who has mostly ignored or written around women traveling around in different places in time where it would have been awkward to see them.    Doctor Who has done a decent job of acknowledging Bill's gender and race so far without it overwhelming the show.  

[HauntedBathroom]

2 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

I think it is interesting (as long as it doesn't get too heavy handed) that the show is acknowledging Bill's race.  I am not even sure if they did all that much with Martha Jones.

Ten's advice to Martha in Shakespearean times basically amounted to "If you act like you're not a slave, no one will try to enslave you." So basically, being a slave's your fault, for not having enough self-confidence. Ten really was a twat.

Anyway, this was another brillaint episode. I'll miss SteMo when he leaves, but I'm glad he's going out on this year, not season 9.

[alrightokay]

18 hours ago, KirkB said:

While I wouldn't want to see the same plot every week, I like episodes where the monster isn't really a monster. Sure, it killed people, but it didn't seem to take any particular pleasure in of it. It seemed to just be an animal.

It seemed like the Doctor was reinforcing a "lesson" he taught Bill back in "The Pilot": "Hardly anything is evil.  But most things are hungry.  Hungry can look a lot like evil from the wrong end of the cutlery."

I think my favorite moment from this fun episode was the Doctor rearranging all of the planets and moons in Lord Sutcliffe's model of the solar system.  Was he correcting the inaccuracies in the model, or was he messing with it?  Given how slyly playful he was in this story (joking about "Pete," stealing pies, admiring con-people, trying to figure out the coin-flip cheat), I don't know the answer!

Edited April 30, 2017 by alrightokay

[John Potts]

5 hours ago, GenieinTX said:

And the sonic worked on a rope?

Evidently he needs to revisit Houdini - Jon Pertwee (Three) was always slipping out of ropes, claiming he'd been taught escapology by him.

[LiveenLetLive]

Bill is still great (I honestly think that removing ALL possibility of "romance" with the Doctor is the key.) Lucky that the Doctor didn't brake a bone throwing that punch, LOL, Capaldi looks so damned frail, he is still not my favorite Doctor BUT with better writing this season he is growing on me some. When I pointed out why I thought Capaldi was too old to be the new Doctor to my partner, he brought up Tom Baker--who was only 39 when he took on the role, LOL (partner was shocked.)

[wayne67]

I like the new season even if every episode have massive plot holes and or inconsistencies that leave you scratching your head afterwards. It's nice to have somewhat enjoyable episodes again. I missed last season because I couldn't stomach the Clara we ended up with so it's good to see the new Doctor do his thing. It was interesting that the Doctor either can't keep track of how many people he has killed or saved or is ashamed enough to admit neither. More likely that the writers couldn't be bothered making a number of either and being bombarded by fans calculating an actual number based on episodes.  

[Mabinogia]

I love loving this show again. God I missed it. I'm a sucker for the monster is not bad just hungry storylines so this was a great ep for me. Bill still reminds me so much of Donna, which is great. When she was begging for him to do something it reminded me of Donna in Fires of Pompei. I loved everything about this ep. It was so much fun, I was so happy when they friend the really big fish. I love Bill's enthusiasm. The show is just so much fun right now. I LOVE it!!!!

[ForReal]

I simply can't understand half of what they say...it's seriously interfering with my understanding and enjoyment of the show.

[benteen]

4 hours ago, John Potts said:

Evidently he needs to revisit Houdini - Jon Pertwee (Three) was always slipping out of ropes, claiming he'd been taught escapology by him.

This seemed reminded me of something else from Classic Who...how the villains never seemed to check the Doctor's pockets after they tied him up or put him in a jail cell.

1 hour ago, ForReal said:

I simply can't understand half of what they say...it's seriously interfering with my understanding and enjoyment of the show.

This has been my only problem with the season so far.  The dialogue is hard to understand, particularly with Pearl Mackie.  Though the Capaldi hasn't exactly been y to understand either.

[QuantumMechanic]

Yeah.  To my ears the sound mix has been noticeably worse this season.  I had to put the CC on for the first time ever to be able to understand this episode because I could only make out about every other word, especially early on in the episode.

[foreverevolving]

Definitely enjoying this season, this was a great episode! I kept hoping we see a glimpse of 11 and/or River, but I imagine the Tardis would have made sure to land 12 and Bill in a day and location further from any previous regenerations.

I continue to love Bill, and the little as possible bits of Nardole is perfect, just the right amount.

Not sure why you guys are having issues understanding either Pearl or Peter, I haven't encountered that problem myself, (I don't even think I had issues back in season 8 when Capaldi first started). However, I am also not a native english speaker so maybe my ears are just used to english being spoken with various thick accents.

 

Looking forward to finding out what's in the vault, and I look forward to next week. 

[TheGourmez]

On 4/29/2017 at 8:57 PM, Toaster Strudel said:

I wasn't too thrilled when Bill was arguing with the Doctor and started with the drama... I've had enough of that with Clara for a lifetime. 

Yeah, that's the only part that worried me a bit! And I liked Clara, but yeah, I had enough Doctor / Companion moral discussions to last awhile.

[festivus]

9 hours ago, ForReal said:

I simply can't understand half of what they say...it's seriously interfering with my understanding and enjoyment of the show.

This is a problem for me too. I enjoyed this episode but I feel like I missed half of it because I can't understand Bill. It's not the accent so much although it is a bit. I have problems hearing certain tones and I think her voice must fall in that range. I also think the sound mix is terrible, I spent the first half of the episode messing with my soundbar. 

[Mabinogia]

It's the sound mixing for me. I can understand the accents when I can actually hear them, but half the time the vocals seem lower than the music/background and I have to strain to hear their voices. I did rewind a couple of times when it was clear there was something funny or amusing that was said and I couldn't quite hear it. Very frustrating. Other than that, this is the Dr. Who I've been waiting for.

[QuantumMechanic]

11 hours ago, foreverevolving said:

Not sure why you guys are having issues understanding either Pearl or Peter, I haven't encountered that problem myself, (I don't even think I had issues back in season 8 when Capaldi first started).

At least for me it has nothing to do with the accents but rather that the vocal tracks are too buried in the sound mix -- music, etc. is too loud relative to vocals.

[John Potts]

24 minutes ago, QuantumMechanic said:

it has nothing to do with the accents but rather that the vocal tracks are too buried in the sound mix

You would not be alone in thinking that. I'm fine with it personally, but there have been a LOT of complaints about recent BBC Productions where viewers have complained they couldn't hear the dialogue over the music (top complaints were about Poldark and SS-GB). The BBC, in keeping with the institution that it is have responded with, "Well, WE think it's fine - maybe you need a better TV?" So don't get your hopes up for it improving!

[festivus]

Well I have a really nice TV and I put my soundbar on dialogue enhanced and I still couldn't hear them. I don't like using CC so I don't know what else I can do. *flips bird to the BBC*

[benteen]

I don't mind a companion challenging the Doctor.  The Doctor needs that once and a while.  Though not a companion, I liked when Danny got in the Doctor's face for his psychotic anti-soldiers mindset in Series 8.  But all Clara did with the Doctor was challenge him and come into conflict, creating a toxic relationship between the two.

[truther]

Add me to the list of people having issues with the dialogue.  There's nothing foreign about the accents to me, yet every episode there's at least three or four instances where I simply have no idea what somebody's just said.  

[proserpina65]

On ‎04‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 1:03 AM, Locutus said:

Unless it's Simm's Master in there.

Please, no!  I hated his Master.

[Robert]

18 hours ago, QuantumMechanic said:

Yeah.  To my ears the sound mix has been noticeably worse this season.  I had to put the CC on for the first time ever to be able to understand this episode because I could only make out about every other word, especially early on in the episode.

I know what you mean. It isn't the accents (being in Australia, I grew up with British television) but the sound mixing is terrible. I've especially noticed it around the punchlines. Where you know they set something up, but you cannot understand the delivery (always Capaldi in this case). I can think of three instances this season where I've had to go back and hear it again.

[smorbie]

On 4/29/2017 at 5:42 PM, ApathyMonger said:

Yeah, it's possible that's too obvious, but I doubt it. I hope we don't have to wait all season to find out, especially if it is just Missy.

 

I hope we get to see Nardole go on some adventures again at some point, rather than waiting around the college while The Doctor and Bill go travelling.

Me too.  I really like it when there are two companions.  And I like Nardole a lot.

On 4/29/2017 at 11:09 PM, KirkB said:

My guess is because he was talking to a friend. His companion. The Doctor couldn't give two shakes to about that guy saying something like that to the average man or woman on the street, but Bill is someone he knows and that basically makes it personal.

While I wouldn't want to see the same plot every week, I like episodes where the monster isn't really a monster. Sure, it killed people, but it didn't seem to take any particular pleasure in of it. It seemed to just be an animal.

As for who or what is behind the door, the Master/Missy seems almost too obvious. That doesn't mean it isn't her, or him, or whatever, but the last time we saw Missy she was on the Dalek world. I'm not sure how she would get to Earth or why the Doctor would lock her up.

As someone upthread said, the Master/Missy's knock is a sequence of four, not three.  It would seem to rule her out. 

And I kind of hate that. She is fun.  She's much more fun since she changed her sex

On 4/29/2017 at 11:57 PM, Toaster Strudel said:

I wasn't too thrilled when Bill was arguing with the Doctor and started with the drama... I've had enough of that with Clara for a lifetime. 

that was my first thought.  Oh man, here we go again.

[smorbie]

On 4/30/2017 at 10:30 AM, Kelda Feegle said:

Pretty sure this is the third time this story has been done, the space whale harnessed for transport in Pond days and the beast being sliced for meat in Torchwood? Is this the first time The Doctor has punched someone in this way, as in not a trying to escape scenario or whatever,  just a smackdown?

It seems the star whales have been interacting with humans for some time.  I don't know why they bother.  We are always enslaving them or eating them or something else pretty horrible.

On 4/30/2017 at 3:54 AM, Locutus said:

It was all Clara's fault.

Everything is.

On 4/30/2017 at 0:24 PM, GenieinTX said:

This must have been why Moff was pissed at BBC for revealing the Master in promos.  Now we all know who is in the vault and there is no suspense any more.  Eh, I'll still enjoy the ride.

I'm loving Bill.  The delight she took at walking on the Thames, at all of the Frost Fair was delightful.  I'm a bit annoyed at the fact that we know the Doctor had been to that Frost Fair multiple times and this ep makes it looks like he never realized anything was wrong before.  And the sonic worked on a rope?  Really?  But I'll forgive it because it was a fun episode.  Maybe he always intended on coming back and figuring it out. 

The way I interpreted it was that the frost fair had been moved to a different bend in the river and that's why he found the animal.

[hnygrl]

2 hours ago, smorbie said:

The way I interpreted it was that the frost fair had been moved to a different bend in the river and that's why he found the animal.

No....that....business as it were....had been in lord whatshisname's family for generations. That poor fish had been chained up down there for centuries.

I've watched it three times now.

Edited May 2, 2017 by hnygrl
spelling error

[tennisgurl]

I really liked this one, probably my favorite of the new season so far, and I've liked all three episodes so far! I'm a sucker for a period piece, and Bill continues to be a great addition to the show. Her questions actually do make sense, and her reactions to things like time travel seem very realistic, and, most importantly, she is clearly just really enjoying the adventure. Her delight at walking around Regency London was just contagious. It made me want to go to an ice fair in the Regency too, terrible smells and questionable fish and all. I also liked her being upset about the kid dying, and the Doctors seemingly callous reaction. It was understandable, considering this is only her second official adventure, and she's still getting used to all of this. And the Doctor had a good response. Basically saying that he's thousands of years old, so he just cant be broken up by every person he sees die anymore, he couldn't function, and he needs to move on so he can stop other people from dying. Its not that he's cold, he's being pragmatic.

Speaking of, I have also been really enjoying the Doctor lately, more than I did last season. He seemed so angry and irritated all of the time, while he seems so much more relaxed and playful now. Like when he was joking about the butterfly effect or complimented the various Regency con artists on their craft, he just seemed to be having fun. I guess when he has a companion who is having fun, he can easier have fun. Clearly, he should get his memory wiped of his friends more often. At least, certain friends. Honestly, I liked Clara most of the time, but by the end of her run, she and the Doctor were both just so angsty and miserable, I had no idea why they were even traveling anymore.

I think the Doctor punched the bad guy both because he said something racist to his friend in particular, AND because this guy was super racist, even for that time period. Granted, I don't know much about racial politics of Regency England, but I feel like most people could at least be in a room with a minority without screaming like he just brought a plague victim into his house, coughing on the furniture. I'm sure most any person in his position would be quite racist by our standards, but this wouldn't most people just assume she was a servant and ignore her, and tell her to wait in the hall or something? This guy was practically frothing at the mouth. I don't think the Doctor would have punched him if he just said something dickish, but something that people would say in that time. Like the woman the Doctor was going to marry when he was human for awhile in pre-WWI England, she clearly had racist views, but she wasn't a bad person, just a person of her time. I also liked that the sea serpent wasn't actually evil, it was just an abused animal that was following its instincts. Maybe she can crash with her cousin Nessie for a bit.

[Geillis]

I have to agree with the other's up thread in finding Bill a breath of fresh air. She takes joy and wonder in what she see with the Doctor, instead of trying to be the doctor.  I am now thinking that I will be sad to see Capaldi's  version of the Doctor gone.  He is much better without Clara.  I didn't like her with 11 and I certainly didn't like her with 12.

[Ochan35]

On 4/30/2017 at 9:20 AM, clack said:

He can save Sarah Jane's life multiple times, but she's still going to die of cancer at age 60.

A little aside here and I double checked the Doctor Who wiki to make sure I was correct but as far as Doctor Who canon is concerned Sarah Jane is still alive in-universe (well at least in the show's "present"). The actress may have passed on but I haven't come across any media that has confirmed that she is no longer alive like they did with the Brigadier.

 

Keeping things on topic I liked the episode as far as showing the other side of Bill and the Doctor's relationship and it's not all roses and puppies. Most of the monster-of-the-week stuff and the villain were meh but the core of the episode was a good character study of the Doctor and Bill's moral compasses. 

[Kelda Feegle]

On 5/1/2017 at 0:56 AM, Chaos Theory said:

I think it is a staple for science fiction shows.  Star Trek TNG started with the premise of an alien being harnessed for power.    It's a good way to talk about slavery and forced labor without actually talking about slavery and of course the people who benefit.

Oh I realised that - I just meant third time in this specific universe.