S07.E16: The First Day of the Rest of Your Life

[J----av]

 The damn tiger couldn't have waited 5 more seconds so we could FINALLY be rid of Carl and his shitty acting

[Nashville]

1 minute ago, alrightythen said:

And why did the dynamite not go off?  Wasn't Rosita the one holding the button?

I think the inference was the bombs were disarmed or otherwise sabotaged by the GPKs.

[J----av]

56 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

I agree with those who are wondering what the heck it was that the Garbage Pail Kids are supposed to be getting from Negan that's better than the guns. Ten what? I thought Negan was implying people, and if people, then for what. It does not say much for me that I was considering that if it was people they wanted that they might eat the people, because they wouldn't need more people for anything else really. And if it wasn't people they were talking about, then ten what? What ten of something would be better than a bunch of guns?

Apparently this is going to bug me.

That... and the lamp! Which was again right there in the cell with her. Negan was right there in Sasha's face. Why did she not take that metal part and shove it right in his eye. Nope apparently I still can't let that go. ; ) What this show makes me think about. *sigh*

And finally - at least yay Carl! But how did he get caught after that? Did I miss a scene somewhere?

Its Carl! He is freaking useless

[Dobian]

15 minutes ago, alrightythen said:

And why did the dynamite not go off?  Wasn't Rosita the one holding the button?

A garbage pail kid disconnected one of the wires somewhere.  Now RIck's learned his lesson, never trust anyone who can't form a complete sentence.

[Happy Harpy]

I don't feel like watching the show anymore. For the last three weeks I've been telling myself "OK, I'm going to play this week's episode" and in the end I don't. And I know I won't.

When the (uncompelling) bad guys, secondary characters or even glorified red shirts get more screentime and interactions between them than the group of protagonists, there's problem. The writers built the whole season around Negan and the Saviors, almost everything was directly or indirectly about them, and it just doesn't work (they should have been more careful, it isn't as if the finale last year got a giant "yay" reception). Not for me and my enjoyment of the show, at least.

Maybe I wouldn't mind CDB losing battles and suffering losses again if the writers didn't go too far and make 7-A a giant humiliation conga. Maybe I wouldn't mind the choppy narrative if the characters weren't bent sometimes beyond recognition to fit it, whereas imo and until this season, characterization was TWD's strong point. But as it is, I do mind very much. 

Most of the season is written and shot beforehand, so I'll still check out what happens next year in case the writers correct the course of the show. I love the main/original characters and I'd like to enjoy TWD like I did before. But I don't think I'll manage to watch again until the war is over and the Saviors gone.

Edited April 3, 2017 by Happy Harpy

[spiderpig]

I spent the first hour and ten minutes driving Mr. pig to distraction with various repetitions of "Rick has to be the dumbest dumbass dumbbell in all of Dummydom".  I had to laugh, though - Mr. pig was refilling his wine glass and missed Sasha popping out of her coffin.  Emergency rewind...

Then Shiva swooped in like the Millennium Falcon and saved the day!  And, as a bonus, she was followed by a horsie!!!

[millennium]

3 hours ago, MichaelaRae said:

 

You mean sacrifice the guy who flat out stood there and said he was Neegan (and had previously told two CDB members that he was Neegan when they tried to help him escape?) Rick has no reason to believe Eugene is anything but a traitor. Fuck Eugene. I'd have blown his ass up too.

Rick should have plugged him the instant he said "I am Negan."   There is nothing worse than a traitor.   Worse even than the enemy.

Frustrating episode.   After a whole season of nothing but foreplay, every POS walks away unscathed.  At the very least Negan should have lost his bat in the scramble to escape, giving the CDB resistance a symbolic victory.   But not even his ascot got ruffled.

Edited April 3, 2017 by millennium

[dwarmed]

2 hours ago, mightysparrow said:

But I have to say that one of my biggest disappointments is the send off to Sasha. It's clear that Sonequa is well loved and they wanted to give a big sendoff.  It's nice that Cudlitz was willing to return, but Sasha was so much more than her relationship with Abraham.  How could they have a show devoted to Sasha with no mention of Tyrese?  Or Bob?  It seems that in the world of TWD nothing is more important to a woman than the man she's fucking.

Not to defend this show's writing, since I think the show has devolved into a mountain of stupid, but I thought those scenes were a way to explain why Sasha chose to sacrifice herself with the suicide pill. Abe talked about making their deaths mean something, to sacrifice for someone else. That was why he chose to risk himself to help Maggie. She took a shot at helping her friends instead of allowing Negan to use her as bait. I don't think it was meant to show that Abe was the only thing important to her. It was her way of gearing up/accepting what she had to do.

[LocimusPrime]

• How did the kingdom people know who to shoot at? I mean the saviors, alexandrians, and hilltop peeps dress the same, and to some extent so to the junkyard people. Same goes for the hilltop warriors, how to they know who's an Alexandrian ect? 
• They should have left Darrell a couple of sticks of dynamite. He could gave used it like Bo and Luke Duke. They tied sticks of dynamite to their arrows and always shot them at the Bad guys when they needed a big explosion. 
• If you can't stop the truck with 7-8 peeps w machine guns, can at least 1-2 of you shoot the tires and slow him down. 
• Next time Neegan pulls up and gets out of his vehicle at the hilltop or Alexandria, just snipe him before his 5 minute monologue. 
• Did Rick ever get treatment for his bullet wound?  I mean he was shot and thrown from a tower, but seemed fine after that. 
• The kingdom has vehicles, so why were they walking? 

[pfk505]

17 minutes ago, LocimusPrime said:

• How did the kingdom people know who to shoot at? I mean the saviors, alexandrians, and hilltop peeps dress the same, and to some extent so to the junkyard people. Same goes for the hilltop warriors, how to they know who's an Alexandrian ect? 

Exactly what I was thinking during the entire gun battle. To the point that I was actually angry at how stupid the whole thing was. How do you shoot at that group of random people over there with any confidence? Everyone is wearing the exact same black/grey apocalypse-garb. At least the Kingdom people had the decency to mark themselves out by wearing catcher's gear, athletic cups etc.

[thuganomics85]

Extra long finale and sure enough, it felt like the reason for it was for more of Negan's damn speechifying and posturing.  Fuck off, Negan.  Fuck off, show.

Anyway, Sasha now is dead for good, as she took Eugene's pill, so she could come back as a walker and cause shit, during a stand-off.  Of course, all she apparently did was just take out a redshirt, instead of Negan himself.  Lame.  I'll kind of miss her, but I'm just happy Sonequa Martin-Green is getting the fuck out of here, and is going to be the lead in the new Star Trek show.  I hope she has a Jon Bernthal-like career, where is only gets better after surviving this junk.  Rooting for you, Sonequa!

Seriously though, it felt like 45 minutes to an hour of absolute filler, talking, and place-holding, until the action finally picked up, and while it started out good, as soon as it became obvious that no one important was going to die, it just felt like the early stages of a video game.  They couldn't even take out Jadis?  Or hell, even though I get a kick out of him, Simon couldn't bite it?  There is no suspense here.  None at all.  Ridiculous.

I'll admit, I laughed out loud when Jadis and the Garbage Gang turned on Alexandria, because it's kind of fitting that after all of the hoops they jump through and willing to even steal from another group at gunpoint for them, they end up being untrustworthy and betraying them.  Serves them right.  Not sure what the future for them will be.  It didn't sound like they were going to be fully Team Saviors, but more out for themselves, but I can't see Rick and the rest letting this go.  Whatever they do, I hope they at least bring some muzzles and shut though dumbasses up.

Of all the preposterous things to happen on this show, Michonne suddenly getting her ass kicked by that particular Garbage Lady, was the one that took me out of it.  Either they should have cast someone I could see as a real threat to her, or have her stab or shoot Michonne first, so I can buy her having the advantage for a while.

I actually would have loved Rick forever if she just shot Eugene during all of his blabbering.  And I'm actually even intrigued over Eugene and his reasons for turning.

Looking forward to seeing Ezekiel and his grandstanding meshing with the rest of them.  Oh, and Shiva.  And Jerry!

Nice to see Abraham/Michael Cudtliz again.  Glad they had Maggie talk about Glenn at the end, but he still strangely feels like an afterthought throughout all of this.

What is Gregory up to, during all of this?

Dwight is undercover now?  Tara was annoying me when she kept begging Daryl to kill him, because she really could have just done it herself.  I don't think Rick was going to stop it.

So, now Alexandria, Hilltop, and the Kingdom are aligned.  I guess Rick, Ezekiel, and Maggie are all the leaders, but how are they going to coexist and make decisions?  Is someone going to be the main guy?  Oh, who am I kidding: it will be Rick.

I swear, this show baffles me.  It has the ingredients to be fantastic: great atmosphere, great directing, and even a great cast.  Hell, some episodes are even well-written.  But it just keeps coming up short every season, and this one was the worst yet.  And what is frustrating is that I can easily see why.  In their heads, Negan is someone like Al Swearengen or Boyd Crowder: a villain who gives epic speeches and is fun to hate.  But, for me, Negan is none of that.  He's just a complete bore, who drags the show down whenever he shows up.  He makes me miss The Governor of all people!  And the sad truth is, I don't see it changing.  They have totally boarded the Negan is the Best train now, and it is going full steam ahead.  I will not be surprised if he is still here years from now.  Ugh.

Edited April 3, 2017 by thuganomics85

[JyDanzig]

The final battle wasn't even that well filmed!  That's particularly frustrating.  It's progression was so unclear, you couldn't really follow some of the various power shifts.  "Now everyone is captured suddenly!"  How did that happen?

And, as others have said, why was there no actual plan here?  Most of the satisfaction of this kind of story should be in seeing the characters construct and implement an intricate plan.  I didn't need 8 episodes to get to "find guns, give half to dumpster weirdos who immediately betray you, barely survive thanks to random tiger."

[rmontro]

You know, you have to wonder about the problems with training a tiger to kill on command, and the problems with dealing with a tiger that has tasted human blood.

I could ask some more questions, but I honestly do not give a rats, because Shiva killing those Saviors was just SO DAMN COOL!

[millennium]

Did Sasha know beforehand they were going to transport her in a casket?  Because Negan made a point of telling her she would have to get into it when she came outside, and Eugene suddenly produced an iPod, and she asked for a bottle of water ...  Yet her plan was entirely dependent upon the element of surprise.  It would have all fallen apart if she had to ride up in the cab with Negan or wherever.  

[ShadowSixx]

2 hours ago, JyDanzig said:

The final battle wasn't even that well filmed!  That's particularly frustrating.  It's progression was so unclear, you couldn't really follow some of the various power shifts.  "Now everyone is captured suddenly!"  How did that happen?

And, as others have said, why was there no actual plan here?  Most of the satisfaction of this kind of story should be in seeing the characters construct and implement an intricate plan.  I didn't need 8 episodes to get to "find guns, give half to dumpster weirdos who immediately betray you, barely survive thanks to random tiger."

 

The fight scene between Michonne & Garbage Bitch was badly choreographed, filmed, & directed. Whoever choreographed that needs to be fired and go home and rethink his or her career.

Also need to add how Rick was able to shoot off both of Gareth's fingers with one shot, yet all these people shooting at the truck couldn't shoot Negan in the arm at close range while sticking his arm out and giving them the finger. For as long as the ZA been going on these people would at least learn how to shoot or put your people with great close range at the head of the pack and your best long range shooters at the back. You see how many bullets they wasted just shooting at the truck and hitting nothing.

Edited April 3, 2017 by ShadowSixx

[MostlyContent]

19 minutes ago, millennium said:

Did Sasha know beforehand they were going to transport her in a casket?  Because Negan made a point of telling her she would have to get into it when she came outside, and Eugene suddenly produced an iPod, and she asked for a bottle of water ...  Yet her plan was entirely dependent upon the element of surprise.  It would have all fallen apart if she had to ride up in the cab with Negan or wherever.  

no, no, no!  He wanted her to ride upside.  She asked to get in the coffin so she could 'sleep' and relax.....oh, and just give her a little bottle of water (after asking Eugene how long the ride was.......two hours).

[Bryce Lynch]

I can't decide which is more irritating, Neagan with his way too many words, or Jadis and her Trash Talkers with too few.

I predict that, in Season 8, it will be revealed that months earlier the Saviors attacked the dump and forced Jadis and her group to give them half their words, and Neagan used his prerogative as dictator to keep them all for himself.

[millennium]

what happened to that feral kid with the boomerang?

[rmontro]

1 hour ago, ShadowSixx said:

The fight scene between Michonne & Garbage Bitch was badly choreographed

When I first saw that blonde garbage lady, I had to look twice.  I thought she looked a lot like Andrea.

By the way, how funny is it that a gang that lives in a junkyard travels around in garbage trucks?  I was nearly on the floor over that.

[ACW]

6 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

I agree with those who are wondering what the heck it was that the Garbage Pail Kids are supposed to be getting from Negan that's better than the guns. Ten what? I thought Negan was implying people, and if people, then for what. It does not say much for me that I was considering that if it was people they wanted that they might eat the people, because they wouldn't need more people for anything else really. And if it wasn't people they were talking about, then ten what? What ten of something would be better than a bunch of guns?

 

My guess is children.

[Johnny Dollar]

Yet another season with no advancement in the narrative, no movement towards trying to reestablish some kind of a society, more absolutely awful leadership from Rick, the deaths of a few key characters used solely for shock value, and yet another cartoonish big bad that's supposed to keep our interest. How is next season going to be any different from this one?  Bye bye show. I can keep up with you by reading recaps. They take up a lot less of my time, and are a lot more entertaining. 

[Haleth]

Well, that happened.  All week I'd been hearing (from TPTB) how great the finale was going to be.  Yeah, the action in the last 20 mins was exciting, especially the tiger pounce, but as a whole the episode really lacked emotional impact.  The many (endless) flashback scenes of Sasha and Abe made it clear she was going to die, yet we are cheated of the payoff of her biting Negan or one of his surrogates.  Rick's "I'll kill you someday" speech should have sent chills, but we heard it before.  The betrayal of the GPKs should have been shocking, but did anyone not see they couldn't be trusted?  Maggie's speechifying at the end should have given us hope, but she's been too absent this season to inspire anyone.  There was waaaaaay too much Negan blathering.

Remember when Rick met up with everyone in the boxcar and growed, "They're screwing with the wrong people."?  THAT was how to write suspense.  THAT was how to end the season on an inspirational, hopeful note.  THAT was how you leave fans wanting more.  THAT was when we cared.

6 hours ago, Dobian said:

These writers must have gone to the Peter Jackson school of dragging things out.

I was thinking the same thing.  It's self indulgent.  Someone needs to give Gimple (whatever his name is) a reality check.  The writing is terrible.  Bloated and amateurish.

So is everyone going to move to Alexandria now?  The spread out communities and sparse populations are vulnerable, Negan can take them out one by one.

[TigerLynx]

I have once again realized, I really really want a pet Tiger like Shiva.

This should have been the series finale.  When Maggie was talking about Glenn, there should have been flashbacks of Glenn and everyone.  One of them showing how Rick and Glenn first met.

The junkyard idiots never should have existed.  Tara should have gone to Oceanside, talked to Cyndie, and gotten them to join them.

Zombie Sasha should have killed Simon.

After Shiva attacked, Carl should have put two bullets in Negan's head, and told his corpse, "You know why you are dead?  You talk to much.  If you would have just shut up, and gotten on with the killing, the Tiger wouldn't have had time to save me."

Carol should have gotten to blow up stuff and set things on fire.  Michonne should have gotten to toss three people off a roof, and use her katana.

If Dwight really is against Negan, he and Eugene should have been working together to unite other people in the Saviors who are also against Negan, and I'm sure there are some who would like to get away from bat head smashing Negan.

Instead there was a whole lot of nothing going on, with only a few moments of action.

[StatMom]

6 hours ago, yuggapukka said:

Jadis with her stupid bangs, stilted sentence fragments and squinty perm-smirk drives me up the fucking wall and she can die horribly anytime but I'll give her a standing ovation for her ability to shut the fuck up.

 

5 hours ago, Dobian said:

A garbage pail kid disconnected one of the wires somewhere.  Now RIck's learned his lesson, never trust anyone who can't form a complete sentence.

The GPK's Other Grammar is so grating. As others have pointed out, it hasn't really been long enough into this brave new zombie world that language should have evolved like this, even in isolated groups. At least with The King, they've given a plausible explanation as to why he puts on the Kingly Prose. The GPKs remind me of emo or goth teens, trying to look and sound so apart from Normals. To me, Jadis just looks like she may suffer from Fetal Alcohol Syndrome or some such. I really don't want them on the show anymore, but it looks like I won't get that wish.

3 hours ago, JyDanzig said:

The final battle wasn't even that well filmed!  That's particularly frustrating.  It's progression was so unclear, you couldn't really follow some of the various power shifts.  "Now everyone is captured suddenly!"  How did that happen?

And, as others have said, why was there no actual plan here?  Most of the satisfaction of this kind of story should be in seeing the characters construct and implement an intricate plan.  I didn't need 8 episodes to get to "find guns, give half to dumpster weirdos who immediately betray you, barely survive thanks to random tiger."

I often have difficulty following battle scenes, but this one was especially bad. I know who's on which side, and I have some sense of the Alexandria geography, but I had no sense of the tide of the battle and who was doing what. I know sometimes directors want to convey the confusion in the scene, but this just seemed worse than that.

[Door]

I might be done. I was rooting for CDB to get killed. At first I thought it was because CDB are covered in plot armor, and they are, but we did have two deaths at the beginning of this season AND Sasha just now so not sure when I became a turncoat. On reflection, I can't get into the stakes. Not sure if that's a writing problem, pacing problem, or both, but it makes me sad. I used to be so into this show and now I play games on my phone while it's on. 

 

ETA: And while I suspend disbelief enough to accept zombies, I could never suspend it long enough to believe Sasha would fall for someone like Sgt. Sandy Nutsack. Even in the ZA where living people are at a premium! I could never and don't see it. The actors tried but the characters don't mesh in that way to me. Not like it matters now, I guess, but it's one more reason this episode left me cold.

Edited April 3, 2017 by Door
Sgt. Nutsack

[Johnny Dollar]

It's quite obvious why the GPK switched sides. Negan threatened them with his deadly monologues. 

[lulee]

I want "Hell, Yeah!" In a finale and big battle but due to bad blocking, illogical moments,  and excessive amounts of annoying characters, I didn't get any hell yeahs. 

How did Shiva jump into the middle of a fight unnoticed? And with timing that was just too perfect?

How did allies not shoot each other?

How did Carl and a couple manage to do a 180 and shoot people approaching them without getting shot?

couldnt they have shown GPblonde get one disabling blow in on Michonne to make it more plausible? Sneak up and give her a concussion?

It didn't help my viewing that i knew from the announcement months again that JDM would be back net year and then with Sonequa getting the ST rol, plus death anvils. 

I just can't stand Negan as a villain.  He's so fucking melodramatic and attention hungry.  The whole bringing-a-coffin-for-Sasha was bullshit.  Like he has a journal that he sketches his *most dastardly ideas* and was giddy to break that one out.  He's supposed to be this great comic book villain but just feels like a reality show villain.

And I don't want to hear from Gimple or anyone about "what if we met Negan first rather than Rick?" because sure Rick's been a bad leader and screwed people over at times, but he's not such a huge asshole. Everyone in the ZA has experienced loss but if there's a backstory that tries to soften Negan and paints him as anything other than the type of guy who'd step on less powerful people and piss in the break room coffee pot, I'm not buying it  

[ghoulina]

I have some gripes, but overall I actually enjoyed this. Surprisingly. I think that's largely due to two things: 1. My expectations have fallen so low for this show. and 2. I was already expecting this to be just the beginning of their war with the Saviors. So while I'm annoyed that we have a whole other season of Negan and crew, I was expecting it. 

The issues I had:

1. Negan. Too much blathering. Too much contorting his back. Always. 

2. Tara. If you want someone dead so badly, how about do it yourself? 

3. The unexplained shuffling of Judith. She's at Hilltop now?

3. The Sasha/Abe flashbacks. This was probably my biggest issue with the show and I actually checked my phone every time they popped up (something I never used to do during this show.) Sasha has been on this show since season 3 and it really bothers me that they're reducing her final moments to being about some relationship that got tacked on out of nowhere and meant nothing to most people. Seriously. I didn't care about them as a couple then, and I don't know. I care about Sasha as a member of the GROUP. Period. She had a brother and strong friendships. Abe was like 5 minutes towards the end of her run on this show. Seriously??? 

 

Anyhow, I loved how she decided to go out, in such a selfless way. She is everything Eugene could never be. Walker Sasha was pretty damn cool.

I was NOT surprised at all when the GPKs turned on ASZ. I had to laugh at broke down Mila Jovovich propositioning Rick right in front of Michonne; that takes balls. But when that blonde GPK smiled at Michonne like that, I knew they were up to something. I should have known even earlier, because those dumpster divers were too stupid to be trusted. What with their bicycles and umbrellas and stilted way of speaking. 

I know a lot of people think they're silly as fuck, but I LOVE The Kingdom. Just love, love, love. I love Shiva! I don't care how ridiculous it all is. It's fun and badass and this is a show about the dead coming back to eat the living, so whatever. 

When Carl Poppa was surrounded by Negan and his men, I knew deep down he wasn't going to get killed. He, Rick, and Judith are the most untouchable characters on this show. But in the moment, I got a little freaked out. And I actually thought - "We need Carol or Shiva, one. Right now!" And boom! There weren't Shiva! It was awesome. Zeke was awesome. Carol and Morgan were awesome. I just enjoyed that entire sequence of them showing up, then Hilltop showing up....and that music. What WAS that? It was straight out of an 80s movie and I LOVED it. Very good stuff towards the end. 

A bit preposterous and annoying how so many people got away, but I'm used to this "setting up for next time" bullshit by now. And I did really love the ending of Maggie speaking, about how Glenn's generous and sacrificial ways are really what built this group, and how they kept building it by reaching out like he did. I fucking miss Glenn. And I won't lie, the pocket watch at the end killed me. 

I'm fully prepared to be annoyed right off the bat next year, though. Of course they won't do anything truly smart in the meantime. If it were me, I'd take all 3 groups and get the fuck out of dodge. I'm not saying leave the area completely. If you want to finish this, finish it. But you need to element of surprise. Everyone knows who you are and where you are. You need to load up your trucks and go find somewhere else to collect your weapons and hunker down and make plans. Oceanside would be ideal, but those gals ain't game....yet. 

[Dodginblue]

I'm guessing Jadis negotiated with Negan for a return of members from her group that the Saviors had taken at some earlier point?  I don't know, I don't really care.

I don't blame her for being a treacherous lying bitch.  There's nothing about her or her group that should have ever inspired confidence and I thought she's seemed unreliable from the beginning.  Certainly to the point that giving her group weapons was insane and could never turn out well.  Plus I think the weirdness is an act, the strange way of talking completely put on, and I guess it's an effective one, because it seems to have lead Rick to make certain assumptions, maybe seeing them as simpletons who lacked cunning or something.    Which they're not, they're out for themselves, duh!  

I have to say that last night was maybe the first time I thought the actors were mostly phoning it in, other than Sasha and Eugene, both of whom I think tried to mine the ridiculous script for something sincere or credible.   The writing is so bad I think the other have just gotten tired of trying to rise above the silly words and actions they're forced to portray.  Andrew Lincoln especially, I thought he seemed worn out and just so over it all.  Ready to go back to the UK and do some theater or something.

Edited April 3, 2017 by Dodginblue

[bosawks]

Why the hell did I decide to watch this before I went to work!  Oh well, RIP Sasha.

I've decided to live my life according to my new mental bumper sticker, WWRGND, aka, What Would Rick Grimes NOT Do.

I think it'll work out well for me..........

[BooksRule]

I think everyone has already said most of what I was going to say, but I do want to comment that I was reminded that the show has seemed to have gotten away from actually fighting walkers in each episode and are just having people fighting people because when I was waiting for Negan to open the coffin, I didn't even think about the fact that she would have become a walker.  I was just thinking that she was going to fall out dead and ruin Negan's big reveal of her as a hostage.  And she was the only walker during the entire episode, right?

I also agree that Maggie should have a baby bump by now.  She must be carrying Flat Stanley in there. 

Edited April 3, 2017 by BooksRule

[Timetoread]

7 hours ago, Macbeth said:

After tonight I believe Carl is Shane's child too.

Shane taught him everything he knows.

[ghoulina]

37 minutes ago, TigerLynx said:

Zombie Sasha should have killed Simon.

She definitely should have killed someone with a name. Sonequa deserved better than that. 

[Bryce Lynch]

7 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

I agree with those who are wondering what the heck it was that the Garbage Pail Kids are supposed to be getting from Negan that's better than the guns. Ten what? I thought Negan was implying people, and if people, then for what. It does not say much for me that I was considering that if it was people they wanted that they might eat the people, because they wouldn't need more people for anything else really. And if it wasn't people they were talking about, then ten what? What ten of something would be better than a bunch of guns?

Apparently this is going to bug me.

That... and the lamp! Which was again right there in the cell with her. Negan was right there in Sasha's face. Why did she not take that metal part and shove it right in his eye. Nope apparently I still can't let that go. ; ) What this show makes me think about. *sigh*

And finally - at least yay Carl! But how did he get caught after that? Did I miss a scene somewhere?

I was thinking either ten gallons of ice cream, ten jars of pickles or ten bottles of aspirin.  

[Bryce Lynch]

5 hours ago, LocimusPrime said:

• How did the kingdom people know who to shoot at? I mean the saviors, alexandrians, and hilltop peeps dress the same, and to some extent so to the junkyard people. Same goes for the hilltop warriors, how to they know who's an Alexandrian ect? 
• They should have left Darrell a couple of sticks of dynamite. He could gave used it like Bo and Luke Duke. They tied sticks of dynamite to their arrows and always shot them at the Bad guys when they needed a big explosion. 
• If you can't stop the truck with 7-8 peeps w machine guns, can at least 1-2 of you shoot the tires and slow him down. 
• Next time Neegan pulls up and gets out of his vehicle at the hilltop or Alexandria, just snipe him before his 5 minute monologue. 
• Did Rick ever get treatment for his bullet wound?  I mean he was shot and thrown from a tower, but seemed fine after that. 
• The kingdom has vehicles, so why were they walking? 

They were told to shoot at anyone speaking in incomplete or run on sentences.  

[ghoulina]

9 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I was thinking either ten gallons of ice cream, ten jars of pickles or ten bottles of aspirin.  

Ten umbrellas. 

[lulee]

10 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I was thinking either ten gallons of ice cream, ten jars of pickles or ten bottles of aspirin.  

Maybe 10 episodes of a TV show Dwight had watched. 

[bmoore4026]

Can Rick step down as leader and have the tiger take over?

[JackONeill]

To me -- and this is merely my opinion -- but the problem with this show is that TPTB's approach to it is like a graphic novel. A graphic novel, given what it is, is allowed much more willing suspension of disbelief. The subject matter is generally non-mainstream and/or downright non-real life. I believe graphic novels came to fame because they filled a void that TV (at the time) certainly couldn't fill, and that many movies avoided (maybe because they wanted to be viewed as mainstream and not cultish)(Maybe I'm wrong but cultish art has a narrrower audience. Yes, perhaps its audience is more vocal, but...)

TWD was successful early on because it hit that sweet spot where a lot of people have keen interest -- the end of days, fall of civilization, whatever you want to call it. And zombies have always been considered...cool. They are the ultimate bad guy. They have no feelings. They can't talk. They do what they do only to eat (they know no right or wrong). And they are tough to kill. To put everyday people up against zombies I think will always be interesting. How do we survive? That's always an interesting concept, be it a snow storm, a tsunami, or a herd of zombies.

And that's what TWD presented in the first few seasons: Man's survival.

But then TPTB started introducing more of the graphic novel elements. The Governor, and I'd argue the earlier version of Michonne (a mono-syllabic Clint Eastwood with katanas), was the start. But even they came to humaized in many ways, so, largely, no real harm was done.

 But now we have a baseball bat wrapped in barbed wire called "Lucille," a tiger, a character who's part-Ninja named Jesus, etc. And now we have the worst part of graphic novels -- GRAPHIC. There is no more subtlety; instead, it's all about the big scene and big killings. That might be okay if those scenes were effectively done...but they aren't.

In a graphic novel little things define characters. Think katanas for Michonne. With TV though, you need more characterization because there's more downtime by the very nature of how a story is told on TV (it's not non-stop action like a Wild E Coyoye cartoon). To have good characterization you need good writing and good actors.

Now, I suppose the people who like graphic novels are enough to keep TWD alive and kicking. But for people who like good TV, I'm not sure there's enough of them to keep an audience going forward.

Kirkman loves Negan. I think he likes him more than Rick. So, one would think, we are seeing Kirkman's best. Well, that scares and disappoints me.

Edited April 3, 2017 by JackONeill

[Primetimer]

Rick, Negan, Eugene, and especially Sasha light the fuse in the fight for Alexandria.

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[Tony]

It seems like about a third of the episode is just Negan's verbal diarrhea.

I'm ready for someone to take out Eugene now.

Edited April 3, 2017 by Tony

[Jel]

Well, that finale just blew the show's credibility for me, and I say that as someone who's buying a ZA and a pet tiger.

Michonne getting so thoroughly shitkicked, nope.

Dwight comes in, lays out his plan, Rick thinks, hmm, here's a plan from a dude who's double crossed us before, I mean I know we aren't at all prepared for Dwight's plan, but yes! Let's do it! No.

Rick again tells Negan he's going to kill him, and Negan doesn't just kill Rick on the spot. 

The trained attack tiger. Cannot.

With bullets flying everywhere, and with literally everyone of the people on Rick's side having Negan as their number one target, Negan escapes, completely unscathed, safe enough to flip us all off as he drives away. 

And then there's Maggie, who I find to be such a one-dimensional character (plucky!) leading her "unaccustomed to armed combat troops" in armed combat. (Why couldn't it have been her? The show robbed us of the potential of a vengeful Glen. I just cannot forgive that even now). 

What a disappointment.

[ghoulina]

39 minutes ago, JackONeill said:

Now, I suppose the people who like graphic novels are enough to keep TWD alive and kicking. But for people who like good TV, I'm not sure there's enough of them to keep an audience going forward.

Preach! I agree with your entire post, JackONeill. What a perfect summation of what is wrong with this show. Being BASED on the comic wasn't a problem in the beginning. With Darabont at the helm, especially, he had a way of taking the unbelievable and making it very believable, and human. And tragic and beautiful all at the same time. The show has lost that. Lost it a long time ago. I agree, they're continually adding more and more comic elements and comics just don't translate to TV every single time. They're two different mediums. This slavish devotion to Kirkman's original work is killing the show. 

I think the only way to enjoy this show now is to look at it in an entirely different way. I have to forget about the first few seasons and lower my expectations completely. It is still very frustrating, but I'm committed to seeing these characters out. 

Edited April 3, 2017 by ghoulina

[Shopkeeper]

1 hour ago, lulee said:

I just can't stand Negan as a villain.  He's so fucking melodramatic and attention hungry.  The whole bringing-a-coffin-for-Sasha was bullshit.  Like he has a journal that he sketches his *most dastardly ideas* and was giddy to break that one out.  He's supposed to be this great comic book villain but just feels like a reality show villain.

I am crap at figuring things out in advance but I had Sasha's plan figured out in about two seconds. What I didn't get was what Negan was thinking in the first place. (I might be able to figure this out if I rewatched...but that's not going to happen.) What was the big plan with the coffin? Negan TOLD everyone that Sasha was in it. Was he expecting them to be so surprised and relieved that she was alive - even though she was in a coffin!!! -- that they'd drop their guns and surrender? That doesn't compute. 

[Dodginblue]

21 minutes ago, JackONeill said:

TWD was successful early on because it hit that sweet spot where a lot of people have keen interest -- the end of days, fall of civilization, whatever you want to call it. And zombies have always been considered...cool. They are the ultimate bad guy. They have no feelings. They can't talk. They do what they do only to eat (they know no right or wrong). And they are tough to kill. To put everyday people up against zombies I think will always be interesting. How do we survive? That's always an interesting concept, be it a snow storm, a tsunami, or a herd of zombies.

I think it was also successful because it was essentially the story of one guy, Rick, the character we know the most about pre-ZA.  This was Rick Grime's ZA, and while there was focus on other characters it was mostly to develop Rick's story.  Rick, the ordinary good guy who's not even awake when the ZA happens, who comes out his coma to find the world gone to shit.   It was good TV, this story of what's going to happen to Rick, who Andrew Lincoln played so well.  

I think the show went off the rails when it had Rick lead the killing of everyone at the Saviors outpost.  Now he's just another dumb shit character lurching from one disaster to another.  Who cares what happens to Rick anymore?  

[ghoulina]

1 minute ago, Shopkeeper said:

I am crap at figuring things out in advance but I had Sasha's plan figured out in about two seconds. What I didn't get was what Negan was thinking in the first place. (I might be able to figure this out if I rewatched...but that's not going to happen.) What was the big plan with the coffin? Negan TOLD everyone that Sasha was in it. Was he expecting them to be so surprised and relieved that she was alive - even though she was in a coffin!!! -- that they'd drop their guns and surrender? That doesn't compute. 

I think his intention was to threaten them? I zone out when Negan is talking. A LOT. But didn't he say something about Sasha having a real use for the coffin if things didn't go the way he intended? Like, "Do what I say, or Sasha will be in this coffin for good"? I think it was all theatrics. 

[ACW]

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I was thinking either ten gallons of ice cream, ten jars of pickles or ten bottles of aspirin.  

99 luftballons (but Negan talked them down to 10).

[Kim0820]

11 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

Sasha should have gotten to eat Negan's face off.

I was thinking I'd be perfectly happy for this story line to end with Neagan being bitten by Sasha and dying from it.  Wish they did not feel they had to string it out further.  

[oakville]

11 hours ago, Samsnee said:

When are people going to realize that Rick is a pretty shitty leader?

Once again Rick makes a bad deal with the Garbage kids who have speech impairments. He nearly gets his group killed again.

[bosawks]

In my best Kenny Rogers, "You took a fine time to leave me Lucille...."

Please Lucille, leave and take The Fonz with you, maybe when you do Rick will stop being a Potsie.