S01.E06: Burning Love

[Clanstarling]

12 minutes ago, Ina123 said:

But they aren't half sisters which was what raised Maddie's hackles.

Maddie's "of course you did" comment was sarcasm and had nothing to do with Maddie not traveling outside the country. Bonnie says these things like she's bragging. That's why Maddie countered with the sarcasm.

I think things like "of course you did" a lot with certain people (and probably would have though the same thing about Bonnie). However, it stays in my head because no good comes of cutting people like that out loud.

[topanga]

7 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

didn't think it sounded like Bonnie was bragging.  What other things has she said like she's bragging?  

Now that I think about it, when Maddie sarcastically complimented the wine mugs at dinner, ala Regina George in Mean Girls, Bonnie did say that she got them in Mexico. Either she was bragging or was taking her own subtle dig at Maddie.

15 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

If Perry left money to Celeste, then yes, I can't imagine her not providing for Jane/Ziggy. But I wouldn't put it past Perry to have the money go directly to the twins through a trust run by some random lawyer as yet another way to fuck Celeste over and make sure she needs him. (note, I have no idea exactly how this stuff works. But I'm pretty sure he could, if he wanted, leave Celeste completely out of his will, and any insurance policies he might have).

Would he be able to leave Celeste out of his will in California? 

[questionfear]

16 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

If Perry left money to Celeste, then yes, I can't imagine her not providing for Jane/Ziggy. But I wouldn't put it past Perry to have the money go directly to the twins through a trust run by some random lawyer as yet another way to fuck Celeste over and make sure she needs him. (note, I have no idea exactly how this stuff works. But I'm pretty sure he could, if he wanted, leave Celeste completely out of his will, and any insurance policies he might have).

 

8 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

(Again, non lawyer lawyering so I apologize to lawyers) I suppose there are things he could do but as CA is a community property state, he'd probably have a tough time keeping her completely out of it. 

That is correct. It's legally very difficult to unwind outside of divorce. 

[Athena]

Please take speculation to the Speculation without Spoilers thread. This thread should be about the episode. Thanks!

[Ina123]

1 hour ago, Clanstarling said:

I think things like "of course you did" a lot with certain people (and probably would have though the same thing about Bonnie). However, it stays in my head because no good comes of cutting people like that out loud.

They're all kinda snarky.

[Ina123]

1 hour ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I didn't think it sounded like Bonnie was bragging.  What other things has she said like she's bragging?  

Maddy did sound sarcastic.  I feel like she tries to cut Bonnie down every chance she gets.  It seems to bother even more that Bonnie tends to just ignore her and get nicer even in response.  

I thought it was weird of Maddy even to reach over and pick up Bonnie's pendant to admire it.  Maybe even that was supposed to be sarcasm?  

Like maybe she could have said, "Thank you," It's comes across as giving her that "Miss Perfect" feeling that Maddie perceives about her. She knows  Maddie is touchy about her. Just say, thank you and go on. This isn't the first time she has referred to her travels like it's a big deal.

In most "blended family" situations, people tend to just tolerate each other. (Sometimes pure hate.) It's rare that there is friendship...even "for the sake of the children". There isn't going to be friendship here for a long time. Maddie doesn't want it and isn't ready for it. Maybe never.

Edited March 30, 2017 by Ina123

[Ruprecht]

9 hours ago, jeansheridan said:

Basically Maddie is making herself and three other people miserable because she holds a grudge.  Nathan didn't beat het.  He didn't cheat on her.  He left.  Which sucked but hello, she has lovely Ed.  Her life is pretty sweet really and she can't let go of her anger?  

I do think Maddie needs to find a way to address her anger at Nathan but I do believe she is justified. No, he didn't beat her or cheat on her. He left her AND THEIR DAUGHTER. Maddie was a single mom until she met and married Ed. I believed her when she said in the first episode that her anger at Nathan does not mean she has lingering feelings for him. 

For me, Maddie ought to focus on her relationship with Ed. That's in trouble, IMO.

[Ina123]

15 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

...Or Bonnie gets it but doesn't reply with anger because she's (usually) just that zen, and Maddie takes it as confirmation that she's dumb...

 

Maddie thinks "zen" is dumb...ergo...

Edited March 30, 2017 by Ina123

[madam magpie]

Madeline is a POV character, whereas Bonnie isn't, so it's harder for the audience to empathize with Bonnie. I also think you're on to something about Reese; she's super likable in general, so audiences are prone to side with her. It would be interesting to see the reaction if she played a villain. (Has she ever?)

[athousandclowns]

20 hours ago, dd21dd21 said:

The secret project story came so out of left field...what was the point of that? was it to tell the daughter about her affair ? LOL

 

and im shocked the writers let Nathan have an accurate reaction to learning his daughter was going to sell herself online...in my opinion he was too easy on her. I would have throw her laptop and phone in the ocean :)

 

and I really don't know how their going to fit

1. Whose been harming Amabella

2. Whose Jane's rapist

3. Who died

in one hour without one of the 3 story lines end up feeling rushed

I'm upset something popped up on FB With these questions and a poster revealed the answer!!  They didn't say who died so I will have that surprise. 

I have really enjoyed this series and everyone's input and insights. 

[Stella]

1 hour ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

But then again I think the writers or someone is doing something wrong if most viewers hate her

I want to throw in here with you for Bonnie's character and ZK doing an excellent job. Maybe some posters here dislike her but I personally doubt most viewers hate her. Of course there's not way to be truly certain!

I like Bonnie quite a bit more than Madeline and Renata because she is far less petty and way more self-assured. Sure she's got a more alternative vibe but that kind of appeals to me. I can at least relate to it whereas the back stabbing and status seeking nature of Madeline and Renata is thoroughly foreign to me. The characters are fascinating and entertaining - I like them too. Honestly one of the great things about this show is the variety of the women. They are all imperfect yet compelling people. However if I was going to be friendly with any of them I would probably choose Bonnie and Jane.

[Mabinogia]

2 hours ago, Ina123 said:

This isn't the first time she has referred to her travels like it's a big deal.

When did she act like it was a big deal though? A lot of people say "Thank you, they're from wherever". I took it as her making conversation. The other time with the necklace was another case of her just explaining where something was from. She actually says it like it's no big deal, which is probably what bugs Maddie, other than the fact Bonnie exists at all.

 

2 hours ago, Ruprecht said:

For me, Maddie ought to focus on her relationship with Ed. That's in trouble, IMO.

Amen. Who cares who Nathan married? Who cares if Bonnie likes stuff from other countries? Yes, Maddie was rightly upset about the Planned Parenthood thing, but she seems to obsess over every little thing with Bonnie. Poor Ed. How can he NOT think his wife is still very much hung up on her ex when she acts exactly like she is very much still hung up on her ex?

Run Ed! You can do so much better. Really I'm at the point where I have no idea what he actually sees in Maddie.

[Ina123]

I'm not sure I would want to be friends with any of them. Probably Jane and Tom. Definitely not Bonnie. Only because I'm just not into hippie, dippie, Mother Earth people.  It's pretty obvious when I write about her. YMMV. I don't have children and I can't "do lunch" everyday, so, not my crowd. But I do love watching them dish.

[halkatla]

I love this show and I don´t have a problem with anything, I like all the actors and I feel like the storyline has a nice, slow but unusually satisfying flow. Anyway, the only thing I want to rant about is Abigail selling her virginity "for a good cause". I almost puked when that was being discussed. I can not see how selling sex for Amnesty international makes sense. I feel like it´s taking the piss out of the victims of sexual violence and trafficking when a rich, white girl even thinks of doing something so stupid. It´s beyond disrespectful. I would be livid with my kid if she even thought about these issues like that. I don´t really give a damn if someone wants to sell their body to make money, especially if they are desperate (I dislike the clients), but to sell your virginity and then give the money to "charity" is totally disgusting.

[stillshimpy]

1 hour ago, Stella said:

I want to throw in here with you for Bonnie's character and ZK doing an excellent job. Maybe some posters here dislike her but I personally doubt most viewers hate her. Of course there's not way to be truly certain!

 

The only thing that makes Bonnie a little difficult to take is that she can sound a bit Hippie Zen By Numbers but she seems to be pretty kind to me.  Wearing the least attractive dress imaginable for that dinner seemed an attempt to be kind.   

Also, it wouldn't help if Bonnie said, "Thank you" and attempted to move on.  Maddy's issues with Bonnie are more about her resentment towards Nathan than they are anything about Bonnie.   I know people who make their own jewelry and who have traveled a lot.  They'll mention it, it's cool.  People don't need to downplay their achievements, adventures or experiences to be kind.   Plus, if Maddy hasn't traveled much, judging by the fact that she has an ocean front home and can do things like get everyone tickets to Frozen while hiring a limo, chances are good that she simply hasn't chosen to travel much because she appears to have the means.  

I have really like Zoey Kravitz's performance here because it does leave room for finding her a bit much "Helping things to grow and evolve!"  is actually a little much and a little barbed, to be honest.  She's not perfect, but she seems to be a kindhearted human being who also happens to be beautiful.   And she handled Ed being kind of creepy towards her (which we have since learned seems to be more about Ed hardly ever getting any, leading to some pretty inappropriate comments about loving sweat on women) really very well.  Has in no way acted strangely towards him since just moved on.  

I haven't seen Zoey Kravitz's before but I've liked her performance enough here that I'll keep an eye out for her.  Some of Maddy's criticisms of her are so clearly based in jealousy.   "Can't she put on a shirt?"  is ...yeah, that's a strange expectation and not a fair one.  Bonnie was dressed for yoga and just coming out of a yoga class.  Maddy is blaming Bonnie for seeming and looking perfect and whereas we've gotten to see that she's not, I think the crux of the matter is that Maddy feels slighted that Nathan moved on with the woman pretty much everyone would notice as beautiful.   

Having said that, I don't blame Maddy for being stung.  It would hurt to be left and then see someone being happy with another person who it seems like most guys envy him for landing.   Maddy said she tends to her grudges like little pets and she's taking something out on Bonnie that isn't Bonnie's responsibility.  

I think that's partly why they waited to inform Maddy about the project going live because Maddy takes digs at Bonnie simply for existing.  A trip to the homeless shelter seems to have thrilled Abby so much, it may have spawned this damned notion in the first place, that isn't Bonnie's fault but I think she was afraid of how Maddy would react because Maddy has a tendency to lob grenades in Bonnie's direction anyway.   She just looked scared at that dinner, that had white wine and red wine, shucked oysters, offers of beer, etc. etc.   It's kind of a rare person who wouldn't have given up years earlier in trying to be decent towards someone who attempts to stick pins into her as a thank you.  

I can see both of their sides of it.  I think that's actually the mark of a well-told story.  As for the audience reacting poorly to Bonnie, that appears to be part of the point of the character.  We saw her dancing with Renata and then heard the incredibly snide things that were said by people present.   The comments didn't really fit her actions, she wasn't pole dancing.  I think Kravitz has managed to give Bonnie enough of a presence that it is believable that she just sort of fields that stuff and isn't reactive.  

[Mabinogia]

3 minutes ago, stillshimpy said:

And she handled Ed being kind of creepy towards her (which we have since learned seems to be more about Ed hardly ever getting any, leading to some pretty inappropriate comments about loving sweat on women) really very well.  Has in no way acted strangely towards him since just moved on.

If she were really some stealthy bitch she would have found a way by now to slip that encounter into a talk with Madeline. But she didn't. She took it in, and just went on with her life. I quite like Bonnie and feel bad for her being surrounded by so many vipers. How she remains as calm as she does is a wonder.

[madam magpie]

I like all five of the main women, and see myself and my friends in them. Renata is super smart, driven, and protective. Bonnie is calm, compassionate, and patient. And Madeline, Celeste, and Jane, in particular, are exceptionally good friends to each other. They're supportive, loyal, compassionate, loving, helpful, fun, and funny. I'd be happy to hang out with all of them.

Edited March 30, 2017 by madam magpie

[Stella]

18 minutes ago, stillshimpy said:

We saw her dancing with Renata and then heard the incredibly snide things that were said by people present.   The comments didn't really fit her actions, she wasn't pole dancing.

And that scene really reflected so poorly on the men, especially Gordon, and the gossipy women that portrayed Bonnie to the detectives, like you say, as if she were pole dancing or stripping or something.

Honestly the most ridiculous think from Bonnie for me was that meeting in the principal's office. Her comment about Skye never condoning inappropriate touching (honestly I can't remember exactly what she said now) was absurdly over the top.

[topanga]

10 minutes ago, madam magpie said:

I like all five of the main women, and see myself and my friends in them. Renata is super smart, driven, and protective. Bonnie is calm, compassionate, and patient. And Madeline, Celeste, and Jane, in particular, are exceptionally good friends to each other. They're supportive, loyal, compassionate, loving, helpful, fun, and funny. I'd be happy to hang out with all of them.

Can I just hang out at their houses constantly? In order, I'd love to spend time in the homes of Madeline, Renata, Bonnie, and Celeste. Jane and I can go running.

[Lemons]

What is the weather like in that area?  How are the ocean temperatures year round?  

[Clanstarling]

54 minutes ago, Lemons said:

What is the weather like in that area?  How are the ocean temperatures year round?  

The ocean in Monterey is cold pretty much all year round. I love the weather because I prefer cooler temperatures. It gets foggy a lot in the mornings. If it's anything like where I lived, a bit north of there. But perhaps its microclimate is a bit different.

[Razzberry]

The water is usually cold year round, in the 50's.  You need a wetsuit to spend much time in it, so whenever they showed Jane walking into the water I shivered. The weather is a bit cool, and foggy in the summer.

[lovinbob]

On 3/29/2017 at 10:10 AM, Winston9-DT3 said:

Bonnie doesn't bother me.  I think she's just supposed to be a calm, non-passive-aggressive counterpoint to Maddie.   Her not getting hysterical over situations like Nathan and Maddie tend to doesn't mean she's not taking the situations seriously.  I think Maddie envies her even temper and that's why the 'goddammit!' amused her.  

I'm not sure I think Zoe Kravitz is that great of an actor. I don't think I'm getting a great sense of who the Bonnie character is supposed to be. And for me, it doesn't help that she looks too young to be the mom of a 6 year old and married to a man who is the mom of a 15 year old. ZK may be 28, but she looks like a teenager to me.

21 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Yeah, they aren't step-sisters.  Classmates is the best term to describe the relationship between them that we have seen. 

Yes, this is true. But there is a family connection and I don't think it's realistic or wise to keep the girls so separated from each other, since they are classmates, and they do share a sister. I understand why Maddie isn't eager to make nice, but I don't think Bonnie's suggestion was so out of line, even if it was poorly worded.

19 hours ago, stillshimpy said:

Also, when it comes to Adam Scott and Reese Witherspoon, I think that it fits that they don't make a pair (in contrast to maybe Celeste and Perry) who you'd think, "Wow, I bet that was a grand romance!"  I think the fact that he's a slightly odd fit for her supports his, "I married my dream girl"  thing.  He likely did.  They both know it. 

Good point. He probably seemed like a safe bet to Maddie--she probably thought, "He'll never leave me."

5 hours ago, madam magpie said:

Madeline is a POV character, whereas Bonnie isn't, so it's harder for the audience to empathize with Bonnie. I also think you're on to something about Reese; she's super likable in general, so audiences are prone to side with her. It would be interesting to see the reaction if she played a villain. (Has she ever?)

Tracy Flick from Election. Villain probably isn't the right word, but certainly not likable. Extremely intense perfectionist who would stop at nothing to achieve her goals. Sound familiar? She's not as fun as Maddie, but they have other traits in common.

[Keepitmoving]

Quote

Madeline is a POV character, whereas Bonnie isn't, so it's harder for the audience to empathize with Bonnie. I also think you're on to something about Reese; she's super likable in general, so audiences are prone to side with her. It would be interesting to see the reaction if she played a villain. (Has she ever?)

I don't think Reese is super likable, she's likable enough, IMO. She's as likable as Zoe Kravitz for me. Actually, the only difference for me is I've actually heard Reese in an interview or two and I've never heard Zoe Kravitz in one, so I don't know what she's like out of character. I just know she's usually an equal combination of Lisa Bone't and Lenny Kravitz but at times she looks like a spitting image of her mother. 

I like Bonnie, she's nice enough, trying to act mature as she can in all the chaos. I don't really feel the need to empathize with her or rather, most of the time I wish she wouldn't try so hard with Maddie. I wouldn't have hugged Maddie if I were Bonnie, bitch please, don't mess with me. I'm going to try to be nice but once or twice and then that's it. Now Bonnie fucked up when she spoke to Abby about Plant Parenthood I think it was, I can't remember exactly, but I remember it was a NO, NO, oh hell no, way over the line. But for the most part she's been more than civil to Maddie, she's been trying to connect. And I find it kind of pathetic after a while for someone to keep trying with someone who keeps pretty much signaling to you that you should fuck off. I wish I would kiss the ass of the likes of Maddie, and I like Maddie, except when she's acting like her shit doesn't stink around Bonnie. You take your stuff out on Nathan all you want but it's ridiculous to treat Bonnie like that because she's young and Zen, and IMO has nothing on Maddie. Both women have it going on in their own way. Maddie is pulling the same old high school mean girl shit that some women can't seem to grow out of and she needs to stop. How about this, figure out if she really loves and is passionate about that husband of hers, or leave him already and stop taking out her frustrations on people who don't deserve it. I don't have empathy for Maddie in this situation to tell you truth. Hell, she's got two guys who want her, granted she seems to salivate for the one she isn't married to. But you're not going to get this female to feel sorry for  a Maddie in this situation, hell no. Yeah, I'm suppose to see her point of view where Nathan is concerned, when I don't even get the impression that if Nathan  left Bonnie and ran and got down on one knee to profess his love for Maddie, she would take him back? 

Please, she full of herself and at this point this is all about her ego. Not to mention, she keeps harping on how much of better man, husband, father he is with Bonnie, but she can't be sure of that. She has no freaking idea what goes on in Bonnie and Nathan's marriage. For all she knows he's still a prick but Bonnie's Zen makes it look otherwise. Yeah, I'm over Maddie where Nathan is concerned and her feelings toward how he behaved in their marriage. Now how he behaves going forward as a co-parent that's another matter.  I feel for her where her daughter is concerned, but this catty female bullshit, I can't with it, I can't.

Edited March 30, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[Stella]

23 minutes ago, Keepitmoving said:

For all she knows he's still a prick but Bonnie's Zen makes it look otherwise.

Keepitmoving I enjoyed your post!

I actually think Nathan showed his hand when he met Madeline with the dinner invitation. In that scene he clearly came across as the guy that's  trying to be a better husband and father, but kind of hates everything about doing so. Plus he had a very honest interaction with Madeline that made me think he is keeping a lot of stuff bottled up in trying to be a 'great' guy for Bonnie.

[summer57]

On 2017-03-26 at 9:04 PM, OldButHappy said:

I started noticing the glass in the homes in tonight's episode...I think it's an intentional metaphor:

When Jane was leaving Renata's house via the front door, the entire entry wall and entry door were glass...spotless glass.  Because the house is on the ocean, keeping a glass house clean must be very difficult. It occurred to me that it must take at least one full-time person to keep all the glass exterior panels clean.

Then I noticed that the expansive exterior glass at Celeste's house was equally clean.

Maddie's house is more enclosed, so the glass in her exterior walls doesn't take center stage during her domestic scenes. But when the kids ran down to the beach, the glass "fence" between the back yard and the beach was shown (I've never noticed it before), and it was spotless.

So I started thinkin'......glass houses as a metaphor for false perfection/convenient compartmentalization....but then figured that I was reading too much into it and that the DP just chose his shots to not accentuate any dirty windows/glass....until....

...Celeste went to check out the "escape plan" apartment.  It was certainly a high-end unit, but something just made it feel sad...then I noticed the dirty windows.  There was something so real about them - they were the perfect backdrop for Celeste's painful acceptance of the gritty realities of her life as she cried, hunched over on the floor.

Did anyone else notice this?

I'm already sad that next week is the last episode...

Yes, I noticed this, too. And thought the same about Glass Houses and the work it takes to keep them spotless. When Celects went into the apartment, I noticed the difference right away. You are so right, the dirty windows are reality.

I think the DP did this purposely, if only because it can be such a pain shooting glass. You get reflections unless you're really careful.

[Mabinogia]

16 minutes ago, Stella said:

In that scene he clearly came across as the guy that's  trying to be a better husband and father, but kind of hates everything about doing so.

So much this! He totally seems like he wants to do better but is finding out it's hard and he's just fucking lazy.

Given that Nathan left Maddie when Abby was an infant and Bonnie looks to be only a few years older than Abby, I'm assuming Nathan didn't have an affair with Bonnie or leave Maddie for Bonnie, so I fell 100% that Madeline is in the wrong in her interactions with Bonnie. Bonnie never did a damned thing to her but she acts most of the time like Bonnie stole her man. She seems more annoyed and pissed at Bonnie than she does Nathan the jackass who abandoned her and their infant daughter. I just can't figure out if it's because she's a bully and Bonnie is the weaker target and easier to attack or because she is still in love with Nathan so she focuses all her resentment on the woman who has the man she loves. Either way, I don't get how anyone thinks Bonnie is worse than Madeline. (full disclosure, while I enjoy watching her because she's amusing, I really can't stand Madeline as a person. She sucks).

the money on this show is odd. I get how Perry and Celeste afford their house because he seems to be some very important businessman, he's a bastard so he probably isn't above doing illegal stuff to make a buck. I get Renata and Gordon? having that house since she seems to be on the board of every company ever. But how do Madeline and Ed afford that house? I find it hard to believe that one guy doing web design out of his house is making enough millions to afford a huge house on the water in Monterey. That shit ain't cheap! Nathan and Bonnie don't seem to be right on the water, at least not that I've seen, so okay, maybe they live in Jane's "poor" side of Monterey. lol

[Clanstarling]

27 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

the money on this show is odd. I get how Perry and Celeste afford their house because he seems to be some very important businessman, he's a bastard so he probably isn't above doing illegal stuff to make a buck. I get Renata and Gordon? having that house since she seems to be on the board of every company ever. But how do Madeline and Ed afford that house? I find it hard to believe that one guy doing web design out of his house is making enough millions to afford a huge house on the water in Monterey. That shit ain't cheap! Nathan and Bonnie don't seem to be right on the water, at least not that I've seen, so okay, maybe they live in Jane's "poor" side of Monterey. lol

Just because he's doing it from home doesn't mean it's a bargain basement business. You have enough of the right clients, and you can get big bucks. And just because he's working from home doesn't mean he doesn't have a staff who are either working at a brick and mortar headquarters, or remotely like him. One of the beauties of the web industry, no one actually has to be in the same location. Granted, none of these things have been specified, but it's not an unlikely scenario. I telecommuted "to" my Silicon Valley job from a different state for years. My guess, however, would be that he made a ton of money young and "retired" like a number of millionaires in Silicon Valley.

Edited March 30, 2017 by Clanstarling

[annemarieko]

9 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

But she also thinks Bonnie is kind of perfect so she must also sort of admire her unflappable nature.  

I think Kravitz is doing a great job of walking that line between clueless and just super calm and unwilling to let Maddie provoke her.  

But then again I think the writers or someone is doing something wrong if most viewers hate her, because I'm pretty sure their intention was just to make Maddie's hurt feel real, not to make Bonnie a villain.  Or maybe that's Reese's magic.   People want to love Maddie so much they hate Bonnie for her.  

Quote

Reese was a villain in Election, but even here she was sort of awesome.  It's true that we don't like Bonnie even though Reese is often straight out mean to her for no reason at all.  We'd all hate to be on her wrong side, trying to be cordial and friendly and never knowing what kind of reaction you'll get from Maddie

[Lemons]

1 hour ago, annemarieko said:

 

Election was one of my favorite movies, I don't watch too many movies, but I loved that, mostly because of Matthew Broderick though. 

I don't see Zoe kravitz as a very good actress, I imagine she gets jobs based on nepotism and her good looks. 

[Mabinogia]

9 hours ago, Lemons said:

I don't see Zoe kravitz as a very good actress, I imagine she gets jobs based on nepotism and her good looks.

I'd say mostly on her "look". She has a very distinct hippy, laid back vibe. I don't know that Lisa Bonet's daughter is necessarily a big draw. Lenny Kravtiz would have more pull probably, but I think it's mostly her look. She is stunning and you don't see too many black hippy chicks in Hollywood, that I can think of, so she has a corner on that market.

I really can't judge her acting based on this role because this role is practically non-existent. Bonnie's whole point of being on the show is to annoy Maddie simply by existing so she's not given much to do. Thinking about it, she is a bit like Perry in that she is rarely focused on but more in the periphery all the time. I can't distinctly recall her other than the terribly awkward sweat scene. lol

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Good to know that wearing nightgowns as dresses is back in fashion. It's like we're back in the 90s!

[LucyHoneychrrch]

I honestly don't like Maddy much, either, to be honest.  Madeline is a mess.  But I can relate to her view of Bonnie far easier than I can Bonnie's view, so perhaps that's why Bonnie is so anathema to me.  I think I empathize far more with Madeline than I do an overly-Zen twenty-something.  I don't think it's a failing of the writers that people dislike Bonnie; on the contrary, I think it's an achievement of sorts.  Bonnie, on the surface, is almost entirely nonthreatening and non-offensive.  But being able to view her through the lens of other characters on the show speaks, to me, to the writers' ability to highlight how perception shapes reality -- which is one of, if not the most important, themes of the book and show. 

[CofCinci]

Whenever I look at the Bonnie/ZK scenes I feel as though I should have Narcan at the ready. 

[dinkysquid]

19 hours ago, lovinbob said:

I'm not sure I think Zoe Kravitz is that great of an actor. I don't think I'm getting a great sense of who the Bonnie character is supposed to be. And for me, it doesn't help that she looks too young to be the mom of a 6 year old and married to a man who is the mom of a 15 year old. ZK may be 28, but she looks like a teenager to me.

Couldn't agree more!! Acting wise, she has never impressed me. She seemed to play a very similar character on "Girls" and I'm wondering if she is indeed a one-trick pony. Can she only portray a free-spirit, hippy-dippy chick, who looks like she's on her way to Cochella? And I don't know if this is caused by her lack of acting chops but I too get zero insight as to who this Bonnie person is supposed to be. With the other characters, I get a distinct sense of who they are and what they are about. I don't get that with Bonnie at all. She's not interesting, faceted or even slightly complicated. She's just some little Earth Mama floating around in her gauzy 60s flower child gear, probably smelling of patchouli oil. I know people have been voicing some opinions about Jane's acting (guilty as charged) but I think she is way better than Zoe. 

Edited March 31, 2017 by dinkysquid

[Giesela]

18 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

I'm assuming Nathan didn't have an affair with Bonnie or leave Maddie for Bonnie, so I fell 100% that Madeline is in the wrong in her interactions with Bonnie. Bonnie never did a damned thing to her but she acts most of the time like Bonnie stole her man. She seems more annoyed and pissed at Bonnie than she does Nathan the jackass who abandoned her and their infant daughter. I just can't figure out if it's because she's a bully and Bonnie is the weaker target and easier to attack or because she is still in love with Nathan so she focuses all her resentment on the woman who has the man she loves. Either way, I don't get how anyone thinks Bonnie is worse than Madeline. (full disclosure, while I enjoy watching her because she's amusing, I really can't stand Madeline as a person. She sucks).

 

Not because Bonnie stole her man, not because she wants Nathan, not because she is a bully. 

Her enduring hate for Nation stems out of:  does he love his new kid more than Abigal because how could he leave her?  He left her (Maddy's) child and is a good parent to another child, that is kind of f'ed up and as a mother it would make you furious.  

Bonnie gets caught in the cross hairs because  Nathan staying with Bonnie and child makes her doubt herself.  What is she lacking that Bonnie has?  Nathan is a different person with Bonnie, a better husband and father....why? 

[Guest]

I watch her face closely when Maddie zings her because I wonder if she's playing it as Bonnie is too dumb to understand or understanding but rising above reacting in kind.  It seems like it's mostly that latter, which is what I find impressive.  There is just a fraction of a second where I think she might finally shoot back then she goes back to sweet and calm.  

[chocolatine]

22 minutes ago, dinkysquid said:

Couldn't agree more!! Acting wise, she has never impressed me. She seemed to play a very similar character on "Girls" and I'm wondering if she is indeed a one-trick pony. Can she only portray a free-spirit, hippy-dippy chick, who looks like she's on her way to Cochella?

That was actually Lisa Bonet in Girls (a.k.a. Zoe's mother).

Edited March 31, 2017 by chocolatine

[lovetowrite73]

24 minutes ago, dinkysquid said:

Couldn't agree more!! Acting wise, she has never impressed me. She seemed to play a very similar character on "Girls" and I'm wondering if she is indeed a one-trick pony. Can she only portray a free-spirit, hippy-dippy chick, who looks like she's on her way to Cochella? And I don't know if this is caused by her lack of acting chops but I too get zero insight as to who this Bonnie person is supposed to be. With the other characters, I get a distinct sense of who they are and what they are about. I don't get that with Bonnie at all. She's not interesting, faceted or even slightly complicated. She's just some little Earth Mama floating around in her gauzy 60s flower child gear, probably smelling of patchouli oil. I know people have been voicing some opinions about Jane's acting (guilty as charged) but I think she is way better than Zoe. 

She was in X-Men: First Class.

[Mabinogia]

1 hour ago, Giesela said:

Nathan is a different person with Bonnie, a better husband and father....why?

Madeline needs to realize that ten years passed between the Nathan who left her and the Nathan who stayed with Bonnie. That's a lot of time for someone to grown and try to become a better person. If she weren't so self involved maybe she'd realize it has absolutely nothing to do with her and everything to do with Nathan actually growing up a little.

Madeline is jumping to the top of the list of those in desperate need of therapy. Seriously, people do grow up. I assumed it was easier for Nathan to stick around for Bonnie because he's older now, more established, Bonnie isn't as intense (so that part is on Madeline, but not her fault, it's who she is and that just wasn't what Nathan wanted, clearly, since he went with the polar opposite.) It's still Madeline being taking it out on Bonnie for having what she wanted with Nathan some 16 years ago.

1 hour ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

understanding but rising above reacting in kind.  It seems like it's mostly that latter, which is what I find impressive.  There is just a fraction of a second where I think she might finally shoot back then she goes back to sweet and calm.

That's how I read Bonnie. She knows Madeline hates her, she knows Madeline is trying to get a rise out of her and she just ignores it. Which is really impressive, and probably why she pisses so many people off. People don't tend to like it when other people can rise above other people's petty crap. I love Bonnie mostly because Madeline spews so much hate at her and Bonnie response with hugs. That must just BURN!!!! Hmm, maybe Maddie does realize Bonnie's just a better person than her and that's where the hate comes from.

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, chocolatine said:

That was actually Lisa Bonet in Girls (a.k.a. Zoe's mother).

Confirmation that they do, indeed look a lot alike.

[LucyHoneychrrch]

I don't think Madeline is a better person than Bonnie, or vice versa.  Both are more complex than that and deserve more consideration.  We don't know anything about Bonnie's backstory.  

[Keepitmoving]

Quote

Couldn't agree more!! Acting wise, she has never impressed me. She seemed to play a very similar character on "Girls" and I'm wondering if she is indeed a one-trick pony. Can she only portray a free-spirit, hippy-dippy chick, who looks like she's on her way to Cochella?

She's not a bad actress to me and based on what I've seen it's not enough to tell if she's a bad actress. She's OK, I'd have to see her in a role where she isn't really playing herself, which seems like the hippy-dippy chick. Now I know that she's been in the Divergent series with Shaliene but I can never focus long enough to watch one of those movies in full and even figure out what the hell it's really all about so...I know she doesn't dress like a hippy/dippy in that series though. Her hair and outfits are totally different as is the forcefulness in the way she speaks. But still...not enough for her stand out as a good nor a bad actress IMO. 

By they way, yes, that woman in Girls was Zoe's mother Lisa Bonet and Lisa Bonet has come off like a hippy-dippy chick since she came on the scene. The entire Bonet/Kravitz and now Momoa family since Bonet remarried the actor/model Jason Momoa comes off that way. 

Edited March 31, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[madam magpie]

54 minutes ago, LucyHoneychrrch said:

I don't think Madeline is a better person than Bonnie, or vice versa.  Both are more complex than that and deserve more consideration.  We don't know anything about Bonnie's backstory.  

I totally agree with this. I don't think any of the women is "a better person" than any other. They're all fabulously complex and interesting, and pretty "good" people. 

Edited March 31, 2017 by madam magpie

[dinkysquid]

1 hour ago, Clanstarling said:

That was actually Lisa Bonet in Girls (a.k.a. Zoe's mother).

Hmmmm....I see that the good acting gene avoided them both then!

[humbleopinion]

Lenny Kravitz's mother was Roxie Roker in the 70's show "The Jeffersons."

 So genetically her grandmother should have helped Zoe to be a better actor than Lisa.

[jeansheridan]

7 hours ago, dinkysquid said:

Bonnie person is supposed to be. With the other character

Bonnie is the person who got her lazy husband volunteering.  She centered herself before telling Nathan about the project.  She risked offending Maddie to help Abby take care of her reproductive health, she ignored Ed's skeeviness,  and she made a feast for her husband's ex-wife to play nice.  We are seeing who she is.

It was subtle but she had one line at dinner saying she knew white went with fish but she liked red.  I felt that showed her nerves a bit.  Here she is hosting this older, more experienced woman who is just ready to be snide.  Maddy is so her worst self around her.

Edited April 1, 2017 by jeansheridan

[sasha206]

On 3/30/2017 at 5:58 PM, lovinbob said:

I'm not sure I think Zoe Kravitz is that great of an actor. I don't think I'm getting a great sense of who the Bonnie character is supposed to be. And for me, it doesn't help that she looks too young to be the mom of a 6 year old and married to a man who is the mom of a 15 year old. ZK may be 28, but she looks like a teenager to me.

Yes, this is true. But there is a family connection and I don't think it's realistic or wise to keep the girls so separated from each other, since they are classmates, and they do share a sister. I understand why Maddie isn't eager to make nice, but I don't think Bonnie's suggestion was so out of line, even if it was poorly worded.

Good point. He probably seemed like a safe bet to Maddie--she probably thought, "He'll never leave me."

Tracy Flick from Election. Villain probably isn't the right word, but certainly not likable. Extremely intense perfectionist who would stop at nothing to achieve her goals. Sound familiar? She's not as fun as Maddie, but they have other traits in common.

I think Zoe Kravitz is essentially playing her mother.  There doesn't seem to be much required of her acting wise.

On Reese Witherspoon, loved her in Election.  And the Maddie character isn't too far off from that.  I think she's a capable actress, but just like Julia Roberts, I feel they never lose themselves in a role.  I know she won an Oscar for Walk the Line, but I felt like I was watching Reese Witherspoon do her best June Carter impersonation by laying a thick accent.   I also feel like I'm watching Reese as shades of Tracy Flick.   She was good in it, but in my mind, NIcole Kidman can act circles around her.

[Stella]

16 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

 She was good in it, but in my mind, NIcole Kidman can act circles around her.

Yes I must agree that Nicole is the superior actress.

Honestly the casting job is phenomenal because in every case the actress is able to play something of a version of herself, or perhaps her typical screen persona. And to me they are all so well suited for these roles and nailing them perfectly.

However, the scenes between Nicole Kidman and Robin Weigert are at another level, practically mesmerizing and falling into the category of great performances. I hope they both receive some award recognition.

[sasha206]

27 minutes ago, Stella said:

Yes I must agree that Nicole is the superior actress.

Honestly the casting job is phenomenal because in every case the actress is able to play something of a version of herself, or perhaps her typical screen persona. And to me they are all so well suited for these roles and nailing them perfectly.

However, the scenes between Nicole Kidman and Robin Weigert are at another level, practically mesmerizing and falling into the category of great performances. I hope they both receive some award recognition.

I agree.  I love the casting personally.  I think Reese is perfect for the part.  I just don't think she really has *that* much range as an actress in that I feel like her characters are sort of extensions of her previous characters -- the plucky wasp!  Same thing with Julia Roberts -- I loved her in Erin Brokovich.  But I thought she was essentially Pretty Woman as an environmentalist.