S01.E06: Burning Love

[NutMeg]

I thought it was really weird for Celeste to choose an apartment enclosed in glass. Me? I'd have found a place where I'm invisible from the outside - which wouldn't mean it didn't have a view, just not this feeling of being totally exposed which I would get at her place. 

[madam magpie]

5 minutes ago, NutMeg said:

I thought it was really weird for Celeste to choose an apartment enclosed in glass. Me? I'd have found a place where I'm invisible from the outside - which wouldn't mean it didn't have a view, just not this feeling of being totally exposed which I would get at her place. 

My take was that she didn't want to be caged.

[jeansheridan]

2 minutes ago, NutMeg said:

have found a place where I'm invisible from the outside - which wouldn't mean it didn't have a view

On the plus side she can see what is coming.  I also think it was very visual.  Hence the choice. But not very secure.  Feels like Perry could break in easily.  But Monterey doesn't really have high security buildings.  Homes have gates but even on the 17 mile drive the houses are very visible. I am sure Clint Eastwood 's home in Carmel had gates and security.  And land.

[NutMeg]

Yes, it's the part where 

Quote

Perry could break in easily

that worries me.

[stillshimpy]

3 hours ago, stagmania said:

I've been thinking about this some more. I wonder if there's some sexual abuse in Bonnie's past, and that's why she seems more zen about Abigail's project than the other adults. Not because she agrees with the way Abigail is doing things, but because she feels strongly about the cause and touched that Abigail cares about it. I feel like there's some mystery around Bonnie still to be revealed.

9 hours ago, jeansheridan said:

 

I think that the story is trying to convey that Bonnie doesn't take any kind of patriarchal attitude towards Abigail's sexuality but that she's taking it way too fucking far.  In fairness, she and Nathan were both saying that no way was the website going to go live at any point.  Bonnie just was all set to commend the spirit and whereas, yes, I really am one with the freaking concept that a woman's body is her own and if she decides to sell it as a grown ass woman, then that is a choice open to her.  

But holy shit, a sixteen-year-old is NOT capable of understanding the emotional ramifications to herself in the long run.  That was Madeline's best parenting moment, I thought, telling Abigail that she (Maddy) was not about to launch into some "your precious body is a temple and a gift" stuff but rather that she would regret doing this.  I thought the implication was that even if she didn't in anyway go through with the mechanics of it, carving her name in the digital stone of the internet with "tried to sell my virginity like a commodity" would not be something she'd be as fucking happy about at 30 when she understands that there is a lot of ground between treating a woman's vagina like it's a Star Trek Frontier where only one man should bravely go and sticking a clearance tag on your hoohoo for all the world to see.  

I don't mind Bonnie much, even if she's a bit of a cliche (wild understatement) but the "Oh hell no!" her attempt at the dinner table elicited from me was likely heard by people outside the house.  

Serious props to the story for pulling that whole thing off, I am not usually particularly interested in ye olde coming of age stories and was, therefore, kind of ignoring Abby's sulking and attempts at beyond-her-years-wisdom that just kept showing how young she actually is.  I wasn't actually interested in her special project, so man, did that ever fucking blindside me.  

When my son was sixteen he proudly showed me the condom he was carrying in his wallet saying, "I know you'll be proud of me for this" and he was not wrong.  Being safe, being protected, those are all very important things that I made a serious effort to instill him, including that being prepared to keep your partner protected too was one of the marks of being mature.   

That's part of what made me nearly fall the fuck over, holy shit, that's not evidence of being an empowered young woman, owning her choices, that's evidence of having no idea, whatsofuckingever what sex is and should be in a life.  Man alive.  

I may have had a strong reaction to that [/understatement]

Also, I get why Skye shrieked at the top of her lungs.  She grew up with peacenik earth momma and poseur papa, she's likely never seen a fight like that in real life.  But I also admit my reaction was mostly, "Kid, you have to toughen up before middle school, seriously" than anything else.  

[madam magpie]

2 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I too was surprised at the apt. because it was SO CLOSE to the surf that it seemed to bring Celeste right on top of this metaphor for violence they've been using throughout the show.  

Do you mean you think they've been using the ocean as a metaphor for violence?

[RemoteControlFreak]

27 minutes ago, stillshimpy said:

Also, I get why Skye shrieked at the top of her lungs.  She grew up with peacenik earth momma and poseur papa, she's likely never seen a fight like that in real life.  But I also admit my reaction was mostly, "Kid, you have to toughen up before middle school, seriously" than anything else.  

Being a peacnik earth momma or a poseur hardly exempts one from fighting.  Skye was screaming because a central theme of the story is traumatized six-year olds.  It was her turn. 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

How Could Big Little Lies's Awkward Dinner Party Get Even MoreAwkward?

In the penultimate episode of the series, Big Little Lies goes full gross-out.

[DarkRaichu]

8 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I don't have a problem with Chloe and Ziggy's taste in music. As someone said above, kids listen to what their parents listen to, which accounts for the older songs. A friend of mine had her first baby when she was over 40 and shortly after she gave birth, she asked for suggestions to add to the list of music she wanted to play for him. She already had Nirvana, the Beatles, and 90s songs about butts as things she specifically wanted to expose him to. I remember that one of my favorite albums when I was about 6 was my mom's Neil Sedaka record even though he was long before my time. Jane strikes me as the kind of person who has made some deliberate choices about sharing certain music with Ziggy.

I got that, but my problem with Chloe was her parents were never shown to be that big of music fans.  I just did not see how Ed or Maddy or even Abigail was a big enough music geek to influence Chloe's musical preference.   We saw the 1 time Ed sang in Elvis costume but at the end Chloe was shown to have better Elvis discography knowledge than Ed.  C'mon!  To me, the scene would have been better had Ed and Chloe gone back and forward through 6-7 different Elvis songs as an alternate to Ed's original choice (while Maddy rolling her eyes in the background).  That would have shown how Chloe got her music geekiness from Ed

Edited March 28, 2017 by DarkRaichu

[stillshimpy]

27 minutes ago, RemoteControlFreak said:

Being a peacnik earth momma or a poseur hardly exempts one from fighting.

Clearly, but the way Bonnie is being presented to us, I don't think she's prone to screaming or that Nathan typically whirls around, holding objects in the air while two people she loves swirl around below him screaming.  As I said, she's likely never seen that kind of fight up close, on anything other than TV.   I thought that the scene existed more to show why Abigail might have done this whole project more than anything: she actually wants more parental attention, even if she doesn't understand that's what she wants, selling her viriginity being the biggest attention grab of pretty much all time.  It even penetrated Bonnie's Indica haze (for the record, a lot of hippies think pot is actually healthy) for a few minutes.  Then Skye appeared and the focus shifted to the younger child.  It's kind of a normal household dynamic but played to extremes.  

We've actually seen it before with Madeline and Abigail bonding about how Abby will always be her baby, then Chloe comes running out and Maddy's attention shifts to her.  

I could be wrong but that seems to be the theme of Abby's story.  Even when she starts coming down the stairs just in time to see her mother and Ed canoodling and she withdraws from the scene.  I think Abby spends most of her time feeling like the unnecessary part in the relationship machines around her.  

That was actually the moment I felt sorriest for Abby.  She's orchestrated this thing practically engineered to cause her parents to lose their damned minds while uniting around her as the center of attention (not differentiating between negative and positive attention...kind of like her project) and it lasts for all of two minutes.  

Teenagers are dramatic as hell.  Not all, but some and maybe even into "most" but plenty.  She set the stage for this giant drama and barely got any payout from it.  Her father is quickly ashamed of having a big reaction and her mother takes the opportunity to ...tell her sixteen-year-old daughter she had an affair.   No way for that to go wrong with an attention seeking teen in the middle of the action.  

Edited March 28, 2017 by stillshimpy

[RemoteControlFreak]

19 minutes ago, stillshimpy said:

Clearly, but the way Bonnie is being presented to us, I don't think she's prone to screaming or that Nathan typically whirls around, holding objects in the air while two people she loves swirl around below him screaming.  As I said, she's likely never seen that kind of fight up close, on anything other than TV.  

We've seen almost nothing of Nathan and Bonnie's home life, so we have little idea of how they act or what Skye has seen. It's just as likely that she's screaming because she's experienced this type of scene with her parents before and knows what comes next, as it is that she's screaming because it's unfamiliar.

What we do know is that the show is trying to set up nearly every character, child or adult, as a potential murder victim or murderer. We needed this Nathan-Bonnie-Abigail-Skye scene in order to show enough conflict surrounding them all to keep them all still in the running.

Edited March 28, 2017 by RemoteControlFreak

[walnutqueen]

2 hours ago, MaggieG said:

For some reason, the principal saying "I should have taken that job in Reykjavik" during the Greek chorus made me laugh. I have a secret desire to move to Iceland and I just kept wondering what kind of job it was and if I could do it.

Have you been watching Trapped on the Viceland Channel?  It is very Icelandic.  :-)

[BigBlueMastiff]

12 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

12 hours ago, Lemons said:

This is going to seem like a weird post but...

I always watch the people eat on TV. Most people cut their meat and put it in their mouths with the fork upside down. I cut my meat using the knife in my right hand and fork in left hand and don't switch sides. I put it in my mouth with the fork right side up.  I never see anyone eat like that on tv. Now finally  someone whose eats like me!  Perry!  

Of course I couldn't tell you how friends and family eat because I'm too busy eating to watch them. Anyone else notice this kind of odd thing?

I've always used my utensils the "European way"; Knife right, fork left, nary a twist or a turn unless there be peas.  :-)

This, I was also taught to eat fork in the left knife in the right (if right-handed), and I will never forget how shocked my Swiss host family was to see me eat this way. They assumed most Americans ate with only their fork, and only used the knife to cut.

[stillshimpy]

16 minutes ago, RemoteControlFreak said:

We've seen almost nothing of Nathan and Bonnie's home life, so we have little idea of how they act or what Skye has seen. It's just as likely that she's screaming because she's experienced this type of scene with her parents before and knows what comes next, as it is that she's screaming because it's unfamiliar.

 

 

 

We will have to agree to disagree on this, as the strength of Skye's reaction is actually what indicates to me that she's never seen anything like that before.   Anything is possible when we speculate about things we have not seen but judging by what we have "Skye would never sanction a non-consensual touch, she's a very peaceful child" and all that stuff about "solving the parenting paradigm that is Abigail"  (okay, maybe Bonnie is pretty freaking annoying, come to think of it) it seems less likely that this is some well-trodden ground for her.   Plus, we did see them bicker, in a way and aside from some spiritual condescension ("helping things to grow and evolve" ...yeah, Bonnie isn't bearing up to much "isn't annoying scrutiny, after all)  and dietary judgment, it really seems like Bonnie is the person who holds most of the power in that relationship.  Not in an unhealthy way, but Nathan even tells Ed he's basically doing what he's asked because that's what you do when you're trying to stay married (not even close to a quote but the upshot).  

Also, if it was trying to make me think that Nathan was capable of murder it failed spectacularly as my father would have beaten  me until I needed medical attention if I'd pulled that stunt and I'm pretty sure I'm not even close to exaggerating.  

Honestly? I thought Nathan took that about as well as anyone could...who was not high at the time, I guess.  

Edited March 28, 2017 by stillshimpy

[RemoteControlFreak]

5 minutes ago, stillshimpy said:

Also, if it was trying to make me think that Nathan was capable of murder it failed spectacularly as my father would have beaten until I needed medical attention if I'd pulled that stunt and I'm pretty sure I'm not even close to exaggerating.  

I don't know what this sentence means. Maybe there is a word or two missing. And I don't know what Big Little Lies has to do with your father. 

But in any case, I didn't say it was necessarily setting Nathan up to be a murderer. It could be setting him up to be the victim. Obviously, the Nathan-Bonnie family is the family that's been depicted with the least amount of anger and angst.  As I said, it was their turn.

Edited March 28, 2017 by RemoteControlFreak

[stillshimpy]

7 minutes ago, RemoteControlFreak said:

I don't know what this sentence means. Maybe there is a word or two missing. And I don't know what Big Little Lies has to do with your father.

 

 

 

 

The word "me" was missing, I did catch it.  I'm sorry for the confusion.   As many people here have mentioned their own parents and how they likely would have reacted to their child doing something like trying to sell their freaking virginity, that's what he has to do with the way I assess the situation from my own standpoint.   My father was an academic and a history professor specializing in 16th century Tudor influence in Ireland and I'm still pretty damned sure he'd have beaten the crap out of me because selling one's virginity online is simply that bad and frightening to parents.  

So, if the scene existed to make me think Nathan was a possible suspect, for my purposes they would have needed to dial that way up from "people yell while a laptop is held aloft".  I was amazed he didn't smash the hell out of it.   I don't really like Nathan particularly, although I guess I don't dislike him, but running into the room to take her laptop away seemed ...reasonable to me. 

It also didn't  work as setting him up as a possible victim for the same reasons.  He had a reasonable response. 

Edited March 28, 2017 by stillshimpy

[madam magpie]

1 hour ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

That was my take.  

Interesting. I was thinking of the ocean as a metaphor for power. So sometimes it's associated with violence (like at Celeste/Perry's house), but other times it represents freedom (like when Jane goes running). The homes of Renata, Madeline, and Perry are right in the water as those characters all, in one way or another, seek power. Bonnie's home doesn't appear to be; she's not looking for power. Jane has little power, so her home has no ocean access, but she can go looking for it on her runs. When Jane escapes her rapist, she goes to the beach. His shoe print in the sand has to be a clue that will eventually lead to his being identified, freeing her. I think this take is why I saw Celeste's choice of apt as freeing: of course she's on the beach! Of course she has unobstructed views of the ocean. That's where the power is, and she can't escape if she's caged somewhere else.

I love the symbolism of Renata literally living in a glass house too. (Someone mentioned that elsewhere.)

Edited March 28, 2017 by madam magpie

[RemoteControlFreak]

2 hours ago, NutMeg said:

I thought it was really weird for Celeste to choose an apartment enclosed in glass. Me? I'd have found a place where I'm invisible from the outside - which wouldn't mean it didn't have a view, just not this feeling of being totally exposed which I would get at her place. 

She's moving from a spectacular home with wide-open views of the ocean and a wrap-around deck to an apartment with only a few views of the ocean and no direct outside access. This is what moving to a windowless apartment would be for most regular suburbanites.  I think it echoed the state of her life to show that her view of ocean, which represents both freedom and turmoil, is now so much more restricted. 

Edited March 28, 2017 by RemoteControlFreak

[stillshimpy]

2 minutes ago, madam magpie said:

Interesting. I was thinking of the ocean as a metaphor for power. So sometimes it's associated with violence (like at Celeste/Perry's house), but other times it represents freedom (like when Jane goes running). The homes of Renata, Madeline, and Perry are right in the water as those characters all, in one way or another, seek power. Bonnie's home doesn't appear to be; she's not looking for power.

 

 

Wow.  I really like that take on it.  Thanks for that.  I'd been viewing it sort of as another character, a witness within the narrative but I like your take better.  I'd noted that Nathan and Bonnie aren't on the water and the status having an ocean front home conveys but in this story, status is about power and I hadn't thought of it like that before.  Cool insight.    

Edited March 28, 2017 by stillshimpy

[jeansheridan]

9 hours ago, dcalley said:

And it's a huge--the biggest?--producer of organic milk and is even sold in the evil Wal-Mart. I'd have thought she'd buy something more local or from a smaller company.

Maybe Nathan bought it?  She did disparage his breakfast.  Might have been milk and cereal!

[jeansheridan]

12 minutes ago, madam magpie said:

Interesting. I was thinking of the ocean as a metaphor for power.

I like your take.  The cafe (safe place) is also near water.  

I also like that Madeline needs to go under caution tape when she goes to the theater. Maybe not subtle but I liked it.  

It also echoes the future murder.

[madam magpie]

7 minutes ago, jeansheridan said:

I like your take.  The cafe (safe place) is also near water.  

I also like that Madeline needs to go under caution tape when she goes to the theater. Maybe not subtle but I liked it.  

It also echoes the future murder.

Love the caution tape!

And yes! The cafe is another great example, also right there on the water. Lots of power there. Things get revealed, Jane starts seeing things differently, Celeste seems to contemplate choices, etc. The cutie barista is totally into Jane too, which I love. Given her history, that empowers her. He's very affirming of the women, always sides with them in whatever bits of conversation he overhears. And there was one quick moment (I forget what episode) where Jane kind of looks after him with a shy smile. They say a lot on this show with teensy details and moments. It's pretty cool.

Edited March 28, 2017 by madam magpie

[stillshimpy]

The character I can't figure out for love nor money is the barista at the coffee place they all go to.  The guy pops up kind of a lot, chimes in when it seems an odd thing to have him doing and I can't figure out what purpose he could be serving.  To show that they are all the type of people, despite privilege, to get to know people they see on a regular basis, regardless of status?  Is that it?  Is it supposed to be a character note for Madeline?  

Genuinely asking here because I've noticed him before and he unexpectedly chimed in on Jane's residency status there and offered to help get her name out for bookkeeping too.   Is he supposed to be representing some kind of warm and welcoming, west coast acceptance, or something? 

He hasn't shown up in the police interviews, has he? 

[RemoteControlFreak]

2 minutes ago, madam magpie said:

The cutie barista is totally into Jane too, which I love. Given her history, that empowers her. He's very affirming of the women, always sides with them in whatever bits of conversation he overhears. And there was one quick moment (I forget what episode) where Jane kind of looks after him with a shy smile. They say a lot on this show with teensy details and moments. It's pretty cool.

The barista is gay. That was determined in an early episode.  He also says almost nothing. He obviously represents the sole character who is not involved in the drama that all other characters are a part of.  There's a literary term for this that I don't know.  Obviously he is someone that viewers can easily project their own interpretation onto. 

[stillshimpy]

5 minutes ago, madam magpie said:

The cutie barista is totally into Jane too, which I love.

Madeline said he was gay, not that that makes him gay, just that Madeline believes him to be.   That's part of the reason I can't figure him out.  If that's true, then he doesn't have a crush on Jane but here, he behaved like he had a crush on Jane.  Or maybe it was supposed to be very genuine concern and warmth if romantic inclinations are out of the equation? 

Sincerely, can't figure out his purpose in the story. 

[Cardie]

13 hours ago, Lemons said:

I cut my meat using the knife in my right hand and fork in left hand and don't switch sides. I put it in my mouth with the fork right side up.  I never see anyone eat like that on tv. Now finally  someone whose eats like me!  Perry!  

That's the European style and Skarsgard was born in Sweden. Americans do the switching hands deal. Were you raised by European parents?

ETA: Oops, sorry for hitting quote function before ascertaining that others had explained this.

As for the ocean as metaphor, it has seemed to me to connote all the secrets and lies that roil beneath the placid surfaces the women try to present.

Edited March 28, 2017 by Cardie

[RemoteControlFreak]

1 minute ago, stillshimpy said:

Madeline said he was gay, not that that makes him gay, just that Madeline believes him to be.   That's part of the reason I can't figure him out.  If that's true, then he doesn't have a crush on Jane but here, he behaved like he had a crush on Jane.  Or maybe it was supposed to be very genuine concern and warmth if romantic inclinations are out of the equation? 

Sincerely, can't figure out his purpose in the story. 

You're right. It does not mean he is gay, though there is zero plot reason for Madeleine to make that assertion about him without fact.  

His purpose, again, is to be a dispassionate, uninvolved witness.  As I said, there's a literary term for this.

[stillshimpy]

6 minutes ago, RemoteControlFreak said:

 There's a literary term for this that I don't know.  

Tertiary, maybe?  That's possible.   I guess I've just kind of got him down as representing the town as it is not attached to the school.  On that one, I'm really uncertain.  I just feel like our attention has been called to him a few times.   I think (? again not even close to certain) that having Maddy tell us he's gay (so that we will know he's gay when it serves no other purpose in the story) was about making his overtures towards Jane to be about friendship without agenda?  

Edited March 28, 2017 by stillshimpy

[madam magpie]

11 minutes ago, RemoteControlFreak said:

The barista is gay. That was determined in an early episode.  He also says almost nothing. He obviously represents the sole character who is not involved in the drama that all other characters are a part of.  There's a literary term for this that I don't know.  Obviously he is someone that viewers can easily project their own interpretation onto. 

Really?? I totally missed that. Interesting. Well, if that's true, he still provides an empowering, safe space. Either way, I think that's what he and the coffee shop represent for all the women: they can go there and be themselves, and he's basically the one man on the show who's always on their side.

I can't believe he's not into Jane! Though this may explain why I'm convinced that my dreamboat gay chiropractor is secretly my true soulmate...

10 minutes ago, stillshimpy said:

Madeline said he was gay, not that that makes him gay, just that Madeline believes him to be.   That's part of the reason I can't figure him out.  If that's true, then he doesn't have a crush on Jane but here, he behaved like he had a crush on Jane.  Or maybe it was supposed to be very genuine concern and warmth if romantic inclinations are out of the equation? 

Sincerely, can't figure out his purpose in the story. 

Also, Madeline has made more than one winky, nod-nod motion at Jane in reference to the barista. Like she's suggesting Jane go out with him. Maybe she was joking that he was gay?? I'll have to watch it again. For now, I'm going to say the same thing I do about my chiropractor: maybe he's bi.

Edited March 28, 2017 by madam magpie

[CKTV123]

9 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

It definitely looked like a badminton racket to me too which made me wonder why they had it in the closet or anywhere in their bedroom. I could see having it downstairs because the kids played with it but in their fancy closet with lighted racks of shoes? I know I shouldn't complain about any scenario that broke Perry's penis though.

I thought it was a squash racket. Either way when it happened I yelled out "oh my god she hit him in the dick!" My husband yelled back "what the hell are you watching in there?" 

Edited March 28, 2017 by CKTV123

[jeansheridan]

He adds continuity too.  A sense of community and familiarity.  Much like when the Greek Chorus actors show up in the background in some scenes.  

[RemoteControlFreak]

5 minutes ago, madam magpie said:

Really?? I totally missed that. Interesting. Well, if that's true, he still provides a safe space. Either way, I think that's what he and the coffee shop represent for all the women: they can go there and be themselves, and he's basically the one man on the show who's always on their side.

Right. Plus, it eliminates him from being a potential love interest for any of the moms.  

[stillshimpy]

5 minutes ago, madam magpie said:

Really?? I totally missed that. Interesting. Well, if that's true, he still provides a safe space

Yes, the very first time we see him, Celeste or Jane mentions that he's cute or nice, or appealing (very general "oh he seems sort of stealth hot" type of stuff) and Madeline says "He's gay, all the best ones are" and so I think it was to give Jane a friendship within the town that was without any kind of agenda.  As you say, a safe space character for Jane.  I like that phrasing :-)  

[RemoteControlFreak]

6 minutes ago, CKTV123 said:

I thought it was a squash racket. Either way when it happened I yelled out "oh my god she hit him in the dick!" My husband yelled back "what the hell are you watching in there?" 

It looked like a tennis racquet to me. Remember, Perry plays tennis and we say him carrying his tennis bag in the previous episode. So she hits him with the same racquet? Makes sense.

11 minutes ago, madam magpie said:

Also, Madeline has made more than one winky, nod-nod motion at Jane in reference to the barista. Like she's suggesting Jane go out with him. Maybe she was joking that he was gay?? I'll have to watch it again. For now, I'm going to say the same thing I do about my chiropractor: maybe he's bi.

I didn't see anything like that, but I guess YMMV.

[madam magpie]

12 minutes ago, stillshimpy said:

Yes, the very first time we see him, Celeste or Jane mentions that he's cute or nice, or appealing (very general "oh he seems sort of stealth hot" type of stuff) and Madeline says "He's gay, all the best ones are" and so I think it was to give Jane a friendship within the town that was without any kind of agenda.  As you say, a safe space character for Jane.  I like that phrasing :-)  

:)

Jane needs ALL safe space friends! Celeste too.

[Stella]

1 hour ago, stillshimpy said:

We've actually seen it before with Madeline and Abigail bonding about how Abby will always be her baby, then Chloe comes running out and Maddy's attention shifts to her.  

I could be wrong but that seems to be the theme of Abby's story.  Even when she starts coming down the stairs just in time to see her mother and Ed canoodling and she withdraws from the scene.  I think Abby spends most of her time feeling like the unnecessary part in the relationship machines around her.

I believe you have described Abigail's core issues. My husband happened to watch the piano scene between Abigail and Madeline. When Chloe came in his take was that Abigail was hurt when Madeline turned her full attention to Chloe. She's basically changed homes and parents for a very similar family dynamic. Younger sister is preferred in her mind, and getting more attention.

Then there is the ironic aspect that as a teenager she resent/loathes the adult attention that the inner 'little girl' desires.

[jeansheridan]

Jumping topics.  I get why Ed didn't want a confession.   It would only serve to make her feel better at this time.  But long term does he need confirmation?   Can the marriage move on without it?  Because sometimes I think full disclosure is the wrong way to go so long as there is no disease or children involved.

 

But I also get why Maddy was burning to confess.  I just wish she had chosen Celeste or Jane.

[stagmania]

3 hours ago, NutMeg said:

I thought it was really weird for Celeste to choose an apartment enclosed in glass. Me? I'd have found a place where I'm invisible from the outside - which wouldn't mean it didn't have a view, just not this feeling of being totally exposed which I would get at her place. 

3 hours ago, jeansheridan said:

On the plus side she can see what is coming.  I also think it was very visual.  Hence the choice. But not very secure.  Feels like Perry could break in easily.  But Monterey doesn't really have high security buildings.  Homes have gates but even on the 17 mile drive the houses are very visible. I am sure Clint Eastwood 's home in Carmel had gates and security.  And land.

When I saw that place, the first thing I thought was how easy it would be for him to find her and break in. Too close, too visible, too breakable.

1 hour ago, madam magpie said:

Interesting. I was thinking of the ocean as a metaphor for power. So sometimes it's associated with violence (like at Celeste/Perry's house), but other times it represents freedom (like when Jane goes running). The homes of Renata, Madeline, and Perry are right in the water as those characters all, in one way or another, seek power. Bonnie's home doesn't appear to be; she's not looking for power. Jane has little power, so her home has no ocean access, but she can go looking for it on her runs. When Jane escapes her rapist, she goes to the beach. His shoe print in the sand has to be a clue that will eventually lead to his being identified, freeing her. I think this take is why I saw Celeste's choice of apt as freeing: of course she's on the beach! Of course she has unobstructed views of the ocean. That's where the power is, and she can't escape if she's caged somewhere else.

But I really like this take, too. 

[Atlanta]

I wonder if Perry has seen this movie? Snort.

[sasha206]

12 hours ago, jeansheridan said:

Adam Scott is 43 and Reese is 41.  Gah. Time is unkind to actresses.  I honestly thought he was around 35.  Someone moisterizes. 

I also think he has a very boyish face and the thinness of him probably adds to it.

I personally don't think they look mismatched in terms of age.

[madam magpie]

51 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I did see Maddie give a knowing smile after Tom the barista's kind remark to Jane about not him not wanting her to move away, either.  

It occurred to me that one reason I like the virginity story is my own teen has that same guilt over kids suffering in the world and her having it soft and safe and cushy.  It frustrates them because they want to do something about the inequities but there's very little they can do besides carry that awareness into adulthood, that that suffering exists.  Most media teens are flat, unlikable tropes so I'm always thrilled to find an inkling of true humanity and goodness in fictional ones.  

I agree about the virginity story and think the motivation is genuine. Abigail has no idea what she's doing or what the wider ramifications are or how she'll be perceived, but her plan sounds (to her) like a self-sacrificing, personal way to bring attention to an important cause. White kids in progressive families are becoming very attentive to privilege. Abigail has a black stepmother, a biracial sister, and a mother who wanted to push social justice themes via Avenue Q. This is right up her alley, and I can't help but be reminded of what Gloria Steinem said at the women's march in January: "Sometime we have to put our bodies where our beliefs are..." That idea, that the privileged need to put themselves in the way of the injustice on behalf of the people without a voice, is gaining traction. Obviously prostitution for Amnesty International isn't what Steinem meant, but Abigail doesn't know that. It's an attempt to reclassify who has the power.

That said, I do also think Abigail feels left out of both her families and is jealous of the little kids, Chloe especially. I don't think she decided to do the virginity auction to address that, though.

Edited March 28, 2017 by madam magpie

[PepSinger]

1 minute ago, sasha206 said:

12 hours ago, jeansheridan said:

Adam Scott is 43 and Reese is 41.  Gah. Time is unkind to actresses.  I honestly thought he was around 35.  Someone moisterizes. 

I also think he has a very boyish face and the thinness of him probably adds to it.

I personally don't think they look mismatched in terms of age.

I just want to know on what planet has time been unkind to Reese? Ha. I wouldn't have known she was in her 40s if I hadn't been following her career since 2001. I would 100% buy her in her early to mid 30s. She looks great. Same goes for Adam.

[sasha206]

1 minute ago, PepSinger said:

I just want to know on what planet has time been unkind to Reese? Ha. I wouldn't have known she was in her 40s if I hadn't been following her career since 2001. I would 100% buy her in her early to mid 30s. She looks great. Same goes for Adam.

I agree.  I think Reese looks incredible for her age!

14 hours ago, jeansheridan said:

I guess I just don't buy them as a couple.  Imagine Mark Ruffalo in there.  Rumpled, warm Ruffalo.  I guess I just like to recast.

I love Mark Ruffalo.  But I think he's too smoldering sexy for that role.   I think Adam Scott works because he's attractive, but really not all that good looking.  And I don't find him sexy.  So it makes sense that for Maddie, he was the safe guy but not someone she lusts after.

[Atlanta]

29 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

I agree.  I think Reese looks incredible for her age!

I love Mark Ruffalo.  But I think he's too smoldering sexy for that role.   I think Adam Scott works because he's attractive, but really not all that good looking.  And I don't find him sexy.  So it makes sense that for Maddie, he was the safe guy but not someone she lusts after.

I'm the reverse. I don't think Ruffalo is attractive at all, but I find Adam, sans freaky beard, attractive. He's got a dead animal on his face.

With Reese, I think it's because she's lost some of that fullness she had when she was younger so she's more angular. Someone who is baby-faced like Shailene or Jennifer Lawrence will probably always be girlishly pretty. 

On a side note, since we're mentioning actors who don't age, Winona Ryder serious doesn't age. At all. 

[sasha206]

5 minutes ago, Atlanta said:

I'm the reverse. I don't think Ruffalo is attractive at all, but I find Adam, sans freaky beard, attractive. He's got a dead animal on his face.

With Reese, I think it's because she's lost some of that fullness she had when she was younger so she's more angular. Someone who is baby-faced like Shailene or Jennifer Lawrence will probably always be girlishly pretty. 

On a side note, since we're mentioning actors who don't age, Winona Ryder serious doesn't age. At all. 

Different strokes!  Adam Scott is waaaaaay too skinny for my tastes! I think he's got the bobble-headed thing going.

Reese has that huge chin too.  I've never thought of her as that great looking, but I think she still looks youthful.  And yes, the baby-faced ones do tend to age better!

[kj4ever]

17 hours ago, lampwick said:

It is telling that Jane didn't search the internet for Saxon herself.  It's game over to google someone you know that you are going to stalk and kill. 

I thought when she told Madeline about it she said she did a couple of google searches herself.  Maybe not when they first talked about it but they were at the cafe I think?

[stillshimpy]

Speaking of internet searches, I was urging Celeste to clear her fucking history.  It wouldn't be unusual for her to have some of her own funds (at least in a normal relationship) or to have a credit card that is in her name only.  Frankly, they've got so much money (or appear to) that I kind of assume that they have an accountant vs. poring over details themselves but it looked to me like Celeste just closed her laptop and walked away from it.  Then Perry didn't appear to take her "out to dinner with Jane" very well so I was afraid he was going to go snoop. 

I think that the most dangerous time in abusive relationships is when the woman tries to leave, right?  So that was part of why I was yelling at her to clear her fucking history or at least use incognito.  

I also thought that barista was showing an interest in Jane that wasn't strictly friendly, but then remembered that Maddy had said he's gay as our introduction to him. 

Heh.  Maybe the Monterey tourism board suggested that, "Uh...so...if you're going to say the name of our town eleventy billion times, maybe you could include at least one character who isn't a complete butt munch?  That would be swell."   

[sasha206]

14 minutes ago, kj4ever said:

I thought when she told Madeline about it she said she did a couple of google searches herself.  Maybe not when they first talked about it but they were at the cafe I think?

Maybe I wasn't paying attention but what i don't get is if she went out to see Saxon, with gun in purse, after Maddie did her searches and told her where to find him, why wouldn't she have also googled him prior to taking off to see him?  Sure it's an unusual name, but wouldn't you want to be sure before to you drive off to confront someone that this is the right person?

And I know that she has told Maddie that she went with gun in purse to see him, has she actually ever said, "It was him?"

I'm with others who speculate that it was Perry that did the rape using Saxon as the name.  Saxon certainly didn't look like he knew who she was; hell, he seemed like he wouldn't even like girls.  Clearly the show is leaving that question open because seemingly there would be a conversation with Maddie that it was or wasn't him.

[sasha206]

1 minute ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

She said something to Maddie that I took to mean it wasn't him.  And she did look at the online photos of him before going, with the girls as we were shown, but she wasn't sure, which is why she went, I thought.  I think she had to hear his voice and smell him and see him move.

Ah thank you!  I clearly missed some important parts!

[Clanstarling]

5 hours ago, NutMeg said:

I thought it was really weird for Celeste to choose an apartment enclosed in glass. Me? I'd have found a place where I'm invisible from the outside - which wouldn't mean it didn't have a view, just not this feeling of being totally exposed which I would get at her place. 

Totally. While I can understand from the show's point of view (powerful metaphors), the idea of being surrounded by windows actually gives me the willies. I think I read something as a kid that scarred me. I do not like being on display. No window in our house is uncurtained after dark, and I'm constantly ticked off at tv shows that have people on the run/in danger/doing secret stuff keeping their curtains open at night (I'm looking at you Americans, Bones, etc.)

5 hours ago, stillshimpy said:

That's part of what made me nearly fall the fuck over, holy shit, that's not evidence of being an empowered young woman, owning her choices, that's evidence of having no idea, whatsofuckingever what sex is and should be in a life.  Man alive. 

Agreed.

3 hours ago, madam magpie said:

Really?? I totally missed that. Interesting. Well, if that's true, he still provides an empowering, safe space. Either way, I think that's what he and the coffee shop represent for all the women: they can go there and be themselves, and he's basically the one man on the show who's always on their side.

I can't believe he's not into Jane! Though this may explain why I'm convinced that my dreamboat gay chiropractor is secretly my true soulmate...

Also, Madeline has made more than one winky, nod-nod motion at Jane in reference to the barista. Like she's suggesting Jane go out with him. Maybe she was joking that he was gay?? I'll have to watch it again. For now, I'm going to say the same thing I do about my chiropractor: maybe he's bi.

I'd forgotten Madeline's comment from the first episode, but I think you have a strong point.

1 hour ago, sasha206 said:

I agree.  I think Reese looks incredible for her age!

I love Mark Ruffalo.  But I think he's too smoldering sexy for that role.   I think Adam Scott works because he's attractive, but really not all that good looking.  And I don't find him sexy.  So it makes sense that for Maddie, he was the safe guy but not someone she lusts after.

I've seen Ruffalo do mousy roles like this one and think he would be fine (I've only recently come to think of him as sexy in any way).

21 minutes ago, stillshimpy said:

Speaking of internet searches, I was urging Celeste to clear her fucking history. 

Amen to that. I was astonished she was doing it right there in the house, because I thought Perry was still at home recovering.