S01.E13: Backfire

[marinw]

Random and Shallow observation: Kiefer looks more and more like a cross between Donald Sutherland and Tommy Douglas.

[blackwing]

Cornelius Moss has already been cast.  I'm not sure if casting info is considered spoiler, but I'll put it in bars just in case.  Cornelius Moss will be played by

a familiar face to "24" viewers.  Geoff Pierson.  Who played the ill-fated President Keeler during Seasons 3 and 4.  His plane crashed, he was in a coma, and then they never mentioned him again.

Alex is useless.  The kids are useless.  Leo is irritating and useless.  The daughter is played by the same actress who plays Nick and Sharon's daughter Faith on "The Young and the Restless".  She is getting older and she's just not as cute as she used to be.  On this show, her character serves absolutely no purpose.  Cry me a river that she no longer has any friends now that her dad is the President.  Really?  She's not allowed to talk to anyone?  Do the Secret Service agents sit in her classroom next to her?  I hope that Alex and the kids are getting written off the show.

I was wondering how an Indian-American ended up with the last name "Wright".   Since it was never explained, I just assumed it was one of those race-blind casting things, like how the Hispanic Jimmy Smits plays a guy named "John Donovan" on the new "24".  But now this reporter is claiming that he apparently stole the identity.  I'm not sure how much I care.  Is this supposed to create drama?  That the press secretary isn't originally who he claims to be?  Zzzzzzzzz.

I feel like very little was done to advance the plot in this episode.  They still aren't any closer to finding the mystery woman in the photo.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

The Designated Survivor Offloads Some Dead Weight

Another week brings another kick to the Kirkmans.

[paigow]

32 minutes ago, blackwing said:

  Reveal hidden contents

a familiar face to "24" viewers.  Geoff Pierson.  Who played the ill-fated President Keeler during Seasons 3 and 4.  His plane crashed, he was in a coma, and then they never mentioned him again.

That the press secretary isn't originally who he claims to be?  Zzzzzzzzz.

His real name is Don Draper.....

[Biggie B]

Quote

 But now this reporter is claiming that he apparently stole the identity.

I took that exchange about the meaning of the word "wright" as an indication that Seth's parents perhaps changed their last name when they came to the US. Which is kind of a stretch, I admit, but I haven't picked up on anything to lead me to think that Seth stole someone's identity. But it's completely possible he has a secret of some sort...this is, after all, a TV drama, and EVERYONE has SOMETHING going on! Speaking of which, what about Hannah's lover who was killed in the blast? Is that a non-issue? Was that just to show that she has/had a personal connection to the blast and is thus even more motivated to figure things out than any other agent?

[marinw]

1 hour ago, forumfish said:

And I wonder if Grandpa was an inspiration for the glasses Kiefer wears on the show

IIRC Kiefer said in an interview those glasses were very popular during the 50's and 60's because they were distributed at a low cost to anyone who needed glasses.

Can't find an image right now, but Kiefer has been seen wearing more stylish glasses in real life and to various award shows.

[Princess Lucky]

I was kind of let down by this episode, but it was probably because it followed last week's extravaganza. It wasn't bad or anything, just a little slow. Maybe it was the fact we had all those scenes with/about Kirkman's kids. Good riddance, by the way. May they only return for the season finale.

That said, I loved seeing the new, more badass version of Kirkman. He's still true to himself (what with all the family/kids stuff, and the tenderness there), but he is also way more take-charge, as he should be. He's "learning on the job," indeed. And does Kiefer look better, somehow, or is it me? Is it the hair? I have no idea.

I was pleasantly surprised they're "allowing" Jason Atwood to grieve, and we're seeing it. I hope that means his son's death will re-integrate him into the main storyline. Malik Yoba is so good, it would be a waste to lose him. I loved seeing him with Hannah again. They have a great vibe together.

On 23/3/2017 at 5:10 AM, Danielg342 said:

President Kirkman is really doing it for me in this series. Kiefer Sutherland is really shining. In fact, I think a lot of the actors here are truly great.

I really think the cast sets this show apart. The writing is mostly subpar, but the actors really bring it to life. I'm practicall astonished by the fact I'm emotionally attached to those paper-thin characters (like Emily or Aaron or even Seth), and it's all because of the actors portraying them. And then there's Kiefer and Maggie Q and Virginia Madsen, who actually have things to do, and they do them in style. Excellent cast, all over.

On 23/3/2017 at 11:09 AM, dwmarch said:

Emily sure transitioned from cute to gorgeous with the quickness.

Right? Talk about a glow up. That dark lipstick near the end? Damn.

On 23/3/2017 at 0:21 PM, Happy Harpy said:

Hookstraten is so devious, ruthless, and yet not evil. She's an excellent frenemy.

Absolutely. She has her own agenda, and she's not burdened by silly things like "loyalty" or "emotions", but she is not evil. She helps, when she thinks it's the right thing to do (like with Hannah and Kirkman). That said, she's not above throwing Aaron under the bus. I like that. She's an interesting character, and Madsen is nailing it. I loved it when Aaron confronted her, and said "don't deny it," and she just casually (and sexily) said "OK, I won't". The face he made afterwards was hilarious. Aaron is way out of his league, with her. Oh, and it was fun to see her opposite Rob Morrow. I hope he'll be back.

3 hours ago, TheGreenWave said:

I'm hoping there is more behind the MacLeish story than his unit was set up, they killed a bunch of friendlies, and then they came back to the US and no one cared about their sacrifice as the reason for blowing up most of the government.  When Hannah was retelling the story to Kirkman, I kept expecting her to say, "but, there has to be more than that behind why he agreed to do this."  Pretty flimsy otherwise IMO.

Agreed. That's it? He was "radicalized" because he felt betrayed? And where does Mrs. MacLeish fit in? She seemed to be even more of a believer. I think we may know the reason why MacLeish was willing to betray his country, but we don't know who approached him, and what their plan is. Still, this was a very underwhelming "reveal".

1 hour ago, Biggie B said:

I took that exchange about the meaning of the word "wright" as an indication that Seth's parents perhaps changed their last name when they came to the US. Which is kind of a stretch, I admit, but I haven't picked up on anything to lead me to think that Seth stole someone's identity. But it's completely possible he has a secret of some sort...this is, after all, a TV drama, and EVERYONE has SOMETHING going on!

I think Seth himself changed his own name, made it more Anglo, perhaps for professional reasons. And Abe was judging him for it, saying Seth picked out a random name and didn't stay true to his real identity/heritage/culture. He was calling Seth a poser, a fake. That's what I got out of that scene. I liked that Seth didn't seem perturbed by it.

[marinw]

11 minutes ago, Princess Lucky said:

And does Kiefer look better, somehow, or is it me? Is it the hair? I have no idea.

Huh. For me personally, I have just accepted that he is older than he was on 24, and that his much-publicized hard-drinking lifestyle may have caught up with him. That said, I still find him adorable and sexy.

Edited March 24, 2017 by marinw

[kili]

Quote

She seemed to be even more of a believer. I think we may know the reason why MacLeish was willing to betray his country, but we don't know who approached him,

I'm not sure that he saw it as betraying the country. He probably saw it as he was defending the country by taking out the betrayers - that the existing government infrastructure had become so corrupt and intertwined, that somebody needed to hit the reset button.

While I can see him as not seeing himself as a betrayer, I think the big thing his radicalization would have to justify is mass murder on such a large scale. Even if you think all the politicians are dirty, there would have been pages and others in the building who would have been killed too.

Did MacLeish meet his wife before or after the "incident"? If after, that may have been part of his "recruitment" process. She is harder core than he ever was and there is no indication she was sent on a mission that turned bad.

I'm not entirely sure why he feels betrayed. The mission was to deliver something to a supposed ally in-country. It turns out the ally was playing them. Maybe the government should have vetted the ally better, but it's not a straight up betrayal.

Hookstraten doesn't do anything without a motive. Why did she feed the intel to a reporter who (despite trying to get back in the game) is drunk all the time? Surely she has other reporters she could have snuck the information out to? Did she just want to poke the administration? Take out Aaron? Or has Abe likely to provide some actual intel to her investigation?

[Danielg342]

1 hour ago, Princess Lucky said:

The writing is mostly subpar, but the actors really bring it to life.

It amazes me how many actors this show has who could be (and even have been) leads:

• Kiefer Sutherland
• Kal Penn
• Virginia Madsen
• Maggie Q
• Natasha McElhone
• Reed Diamond
• Rob Morrow

That's an All-Star cast right there. I also think about how good people like LaMonica Garrett, Adnan Canto and Italia Ricci have been- they have more than made a name for themselves on this show.

The talent level is off the charts. The only other show (in recent memory) I can think of with this level of acting is Criminal Minds in its heyday...it's unprecedented.

Unfortunately it's being wasted on such poor writing and direction and it's a shame.

52 minutes ago, kili said:

Why did she feed the intel to a reporter who (despite trying to get back in the game) is drunk all the time?

My guess is that Hookstraten felt Leonard would provide the greatest punch, and he'd likely be the only one she felt could report on something as outlandish as what McLeish did and still be believed. We have to remember if reports came out that an incident like McLeish killing Catahan happened in real life there would be a lot of skepticism because it's fodder for conspiracy theories. A "regular" reporter just wouldn't cut it.

...and who knows? Maybe Leonard will pay a favour to Kimble somewhere down the road, if he hadn't done so already. Kimble didn't exactly look scornful while talking with him.

[marinw]

3 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

The talent level is off the charts. The only other show (in recent memory) I can think of with this level of acting is Criminal Minds in its heyday...it's unprecedented.

Unfortunately it's being wasted on such poor writing and direction and it's a shame.

One thing that makes a great actor great is his/her abilty to elevate mediocre material. But that can only take a show so far. 

[Danielg342]

Perhaps I should have said "writing choices" because an actor has less control over that. I would agree that great actors can make even the most cliched story good.

[merylinkid]

8 hours ago, DFWGina said:

There was def something fishy with Seth's friends....

Yeah, they were all "The government's been blown up, the President was shot, the Vice President killed, you work for the White House that is just trying to keep the goverment going, but come out and get drunk with us."    Umm, dudes, he's a little busy now.   Does he need a break?   Probably.   But not going out drinking with his buddies.   He can sleep when this is over.

[JusLaugh]

On 3/23/2017 at 1:05 PM, Netfoot said:

They're not at Grandma's house.  They are at Camp David which has pretty decent security, seeing as it's actually a military base.

I must have missed that. I thought she said she wanted to take them to her Mom's. That makes more sense. 

[OtterMommy]

12 minutes ago, JusLaugh said:

I must have missed that. I thought she said she wanted to take them to her Mom's. That makes more sense. 

They talked about Grandma and then opted for Camp David.  It works--it is a plausible reason for us to not see the kids.  Kirkman is going to always be a target and, as a good father, he's willing to send his kids away to someplace safe and Camp David is a very logical choice.  Honestly, it is one of the smarter things I've seen this show do.

I do think we'll still see Alex--she said she'd come back as much as she could.  And, as the First Lady, she does have ceremonial duties to attend to (State Dinners, appearances on Sesame Street, etc).  They can bring her back every so often when the story actually needs her and then not have her wringing her hands in the corner in the meantime.  

[Netfoot]

10 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

And, as the First Lady, she does have ceremonial duties to attend to (State Dinners, appearances on Sesame Street, etc).

... running Health, Education & Welfare ...

[buckboard]

Rob Morrow also has made a few appearances on "The Fosters" as the boyfriend of Annie Potts, Teri Polo's mother.

[secnarf]

40 minutes ago, JusLaugh said:

I must have missed that. I thought she said she wanted to take them to her Mom's. That makes more sense. 

Alex said her mom would help out, but I don't think they were ever considering actually staying with her mother. If anything, I think Alex's mom will go to Camp David. It will also help out for when Alex needs to go back to the White House.

[shapeshifter]

Quite a few posters upthread expressed that the writing wasn't quite worthy of the talented cast, and at least one poster mentioned that the show would benefit from a little levity. Well, maybe PTV recapper Jeff Alexander should be enlisted to punch up the scripts. I mean, for example:

9 HOURS AGO, TARA ARIANO SAID:

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode! The Designated SurvivorOffloads Some Dead Weight Another week brings another kick to the Kirkmans.:

QUOTE

. . . "disgraced" reporter Abe Leonard (Rob Morrow . . . pisses in the punchbowl of Seth's briefing with a question about McLeish having Catalan killed . . .

. . . Kirkman . . . stumping around the White House with a cane while wearing a cardigan all day makes him look like a grandfather who keeps forgetting whether he actually needs glasses or not.

 

Edited March 25, 2017 by shapeshifter

[Blue Plastic]

On 3/23/2017 at 0:55 PM, chaifan said:

I was certain Seth's "friends" were going to get him drunk and pump him for inside info.  Or he would blab and someone would overhear.  But, no.  I really don't understand what the whole point of that scene was.  I'd like Seth to be just Seth, and have no drama of his own.  Not every character has to have a nefarious backstory or hidden secret or be a double/triple agent or whatever.  Let Seth be just Seth.

I thought he was going to get drunk and mess something up while inebriated since that's the usual TV trope, but when that didn't happen I started noticing how odd his "friends" seemed.  Supposedly he's known them for a while, but they seemed awfully intent on getting him to quit working for Kirkman, not in a "concerned friend" way but in a "we've been hired to sabotage Kirkman's presidency" way.

On 3/23/2017 at 1:46 PM, calipiano81 said:

I agree. Secret Service has to be present wherever the members of the first family are, so I don't see how a different location gives the kids a more normal life?

Yeah, that made no sense.  They can't play with the other kids at their regular school, but they aren't exactly going to have lots of friends their own age at Camp David, either.  One way or another, they are going to be isolated from their peers.  Anyway, I'm not crying that they're off screen but Keifer Sutherland sure did a good job of looking sad.

Am I the only one who is totally lost about McLeish and his company in Iraq?  I did not understand what the story was supposed to be AT ALL.  Also, it's been so long since the first half of the season aired that I had to look up who Langdon was supposed to be.  It's been a while since we've seen him, plus there was a pretty long hiatus.  I'm ready for them to just REVEAL who's supposed to be behind recruiting these people to bring down the gov't.

Somehow, though, overall I really enjoy this show even though I've never really been a fan of "fictional president" type shows before.

[shapeshifter]

18 minutes ago, Blue Plastic said:

. . . Am I the only one who is totally lost about McLeish and his company in Iraq?  I did not understand what the story was supposed to be AT ALL.  Also, it's been so long since the first half of the season aired that I had to look up who Langdon was supposed to be.  It's been a while since we've seen him, plus there was a pretty long hiatus. . . .

So it's not just me. All we need is one more cosign and we can officially declare that the emperor has no clothes.

Actually, someone else upthread did chastise the writers for telling rather than showing this revealed backstory, so yeah.

And I must have either snoozed through a lot or I'm still having memory issues, because I thought Langdon was a bad guy, and therefore Aaron was definitely in cahoots with the conspirators, but everyone else here didn't seem to think so. So who exactly is Langdon anyway?

[Blue Plastic]

37 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

So it's not just me. All we need is one more cosign and we can officially declare that the emperor has no clothes.

Actually, someone else upthread did chastise the writers for telling rather than showing this revealed backstory, so yeah.

And I must have either snoozed through a lot or I'm still having memory issues, because I thought Langdon was a bad guy, and therefore Aaron was definitely in cahoots with the conspirators, but everyone else here didn't seem to think so. So who exactly is Langdon anyway?

I think Langdon is supposed to have been the Chief of Staff for President Richmond and that he "mysteriously survived" the attack on the Capitol, much like McLeish.

Totally agree about "showing not telling."  I thought McLeish's company member (Alvin Joyner?) was going to tell the story and that we might even get some visual with a voiceover of him talking about what happened.  Instead he just looked anguished, the scene ended, and Agent Wells told Kirkman some gobbledygook that meant nothing to me.

[Raja]

On Thursday, March 23, 2017 at 0:05 PM, Netfoot said:

They're not at Grandma's house.  They are at Camp David which has pretty decent security, seeing as it's actually a military base.

Unless we actually have a 7 Days In May type conspiracy and the Camp David commander now has First  hostages 

[paigow]

2 hours ago, Raja said:

Unless we actually have a 7 Days In May type conspiracy and the Camp David commander now has First  hostages 

Implement Speed Protocol:  Shoot the hostage

[paigow]

21 hours ago, Princess Lucky said:

I was pleasantly surprised they're "allowing" Jason Atwood to grieve, and we're seeing it. I hope that means his son's death will re-integrate him into the main storyline. Malik Yoba is so good, it would be a waste to lose him.

Dude is going to eat a gun...not even enough energy to be vengeful grieving father...

ETA: FFS Nikita is volunteering to throw away the rule book and kill everybody for you and...nothing...

Edited March 25, 2017 by paigow

[Raja]

5 minutes ago, paigow said:

Dude is going to eat a gun...not even enough energy to be vengeful grieving father...

It certainly looked like that was what he is planning to do. But then since they have shown us that instead of just finding his body I think they have something else in mind for the ex FBI Director.

[Happy Harpy]

8 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

And I must have either snoozed through a lot or I'm still having memory issues, because I thought Langdon was a bad guy, and therefore Aaron was definitely in cahoots with the conspirators, but everyone else here didn't seem to think so.

Aaron was surprised to see Langdon, but his attitude wasn't "what the hell are you doing here we can't be seen together" or conspiratorial in any way. That's why I think that Aaron isn't truly in on it. For now, I'd tend to believe he was the designated fall guy, were anybody to suspect foul play from the inside. It will explain why it looks like he made that incriminating phone call (which particulars I don't remember, was it the one made to MacLeish during the address?).

44 minutes ago, paigow said:

Implement Speed Protocol:  Shoot the hostage

If only this show could be half thrilling as Speed.

Edited March 25, 2017 by Happy Harpy

[calipiano81]

11 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

And I must have either snoozed through a lot or I'm still having memory issues, because I thought Langdon was a bad guy, and therefore Aaron was definitely in cahoots with the conspirators, but everyone else here didn't seem to think so. So who exactly is Langdon anyway?

Langdon was the previous President Richmond's Chief-of-Staff and Aaron was his deputy. Based on the things he said to Hannah when she first ran into him at the cabin (he told her he had been the one calling her and giving her clues; he also said something to the effect that the conspiracy ran very deep) and the fact that he is hiding out, it appears that he may know a lot about the conspiracy, but is very much against it and wants it stopped - hence, at the moment, he appears not to be one of the bad guys.

 

3 hours ago, Happy Harpy said:

It will explain why it looks like he made that incriminating phone call (which particulars I don't remember, was it the one made to MacLeish during the address?).

It was a phone call Aaron supposedly made during the previous administration, prior to the bombing, which caused the Capitol threat assessment report to be suppressed.

.

Edited March 25, 2017 by calipiano81

[paigow]

Cannot decide if "Cornelius " is homage to O.E.M. Planet Of The Apes - i.e. Charlton Heston, or Hairspray [POTUS Corny Collins Moss]

[jhlipton]

On 3/22/2017 at 11:48 PM, merylinkid said:

Am I the only one who thought the helicopter would blow up as the First Lady and First Brats were taking off?   Just me?    All I thought was "well that would be one way to get rid of the kids on this show."  

Looks like I was the only one not just thnking, but hoping...

[Arynm]

Didn't the pres get contacts last half-season? Why is he still on/off with the glasses?

[paigow]

12 hours ago, Happy Harpy said:

If only this show could be half thrilling as Speed.

Speed had a compelling villain....

[Dowel Jones]

On 3/23/2017 at 5:47 AM, waving feather said:

A whole week to "rest"?

Really.  Could Kirkman have been any more obvious?  "Take Seven Days off, Aaron.  I mean, take a week, yeah, that's it."

My thought was that, although the Army corporal definitely had some PTSD issues going, maybe he was faking the entire story to Hannah about what happened in Afghanistan.  That would have been the go to story in case things started to fall apart back in DC.  Pretty sure I'm wrong on that, but there's always that twist. 

Granted, there's always the possibility of air traffic in and out of the White House, but, as a security measure so as not to draw attention to the activity, wouldn't it have been better to drive Alex +2 to Andrews AFB and fly them out from there?  Now, anyone who was watching knows the family has left and it's not that hard to track their travel.  Of course, that rather diminishes the effect of Kirkland walking back to the White House in the gloom.

If Aaron's not some kind of shady bad character, why is he meeting with the guy that the FBI is looking for?  That could go both ways.

Too bad Atwood didn't read some of the comments here before falling for the Big Bad demands.  He still would have lost his son, but he would now be one angry son of a bitch and he would have a captive.  I still think, if he doesn't kill himself, that there is a shitstorm heading for Team Conspiracy.

[thuganomics85]

Rob Morrow as an asshole reporter, who likes his drink.  Yeah, that checks out!  I wonder if he'll keep popping back up since he is league with Hookstraten and they seem to be setting up some kind of "old vs. new" feud between him and Seth.  Speaking of Seth, they continue to dig into his background with that name change, and the introduction of his kind of weird friends.  Something is going to come out of this.

Sending Alex and the kids to Camp David really sounds like an excuse to just get them off screen, since they now realize that they aren't working all that well.  Alex will clearly keep popping up; if nothing else, I can see numerous phone calls between her and Kirkman shown); but it felt like an obvious cleanser.  I'd like to think Mike deliberately made sure Alex saw the heighten security measures, so he would no longer have to babysit Leo anymore.  I was wanting him to be all "Now, if you follow me, I'll show you were we put all the land mines, tripwires, and the badass hole full of spikes, in case anyone got in the White House!" at the end.

So, Hookstraten leaks MacLeish's death, but Aaron takes the fall for it since he was the one who told her.  Kirkman uses this an obvious way to send him on "vacation" for a week, which makes him sad, and new interim Chief of Staff Emily sad too.  Poor Aaron.  I still think he's innocent.  Even if the episode ends with him suddenly bumping into supposed dead Langdon (Peter Outerbridge, baby!) again.

Now, it sounds like MacLeish actually wasn't completely a bad guy?  Man, this conspiracy is confusing!

Jason is clearly messed up.  Hannah meant well, but she probably could have used a bit more tact, there.

So, a former President will be showing up, soon?  I wonder which archetype: suave, "good old boy" Bill Clinton-type or "folksy," everyman George W. Bush-type.  Those are the only two in TV land! 

[marinw]

14 hours ago, Arynm said:

Didn't the pres get contacts last half-season? Why is he still on/off with the glasses?

He must have been wearing contacts when he was reading the Telepromter. Conatcts can be uncomfortable, so maybe he just wears them sometimes. And this way Kiefer can put on and take off the gasses in a dramatic manner.

Edited March 26, 2017 by marinw

[rur]

6 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

So, a former President will be showing up, soon?  I wonder which archetype: suave, "good old boy" Bill Clinton-type or "folksy," everyman George W. Bush-type.  Those are the only two in TV land! 

I know it won't happen, but I'd love to see former President Jed Bartlett come in to give Kirkman advice and help him kick ass. 

[txhorns79]

Quote

I know it won't happen, but I'd love to see former President Jed Bartlett come in to give Kirkman advice and help him kick ass. 

He's way too busy being married to Jack McCoy in California. 

Quote

Sending Alex and the kids to Camp David really sounds like an excuse to just get them off screen, since they now realize that they aren't working all that well.  Alex will clearly keep popping up; if nothing else, I can see numerous phone calls between her and Kirkman shown); but it felt like an obvious cleanser.  I'd like to think Mike deliberately made sure Alex saw the heighten security measures, so he would no longer have to babysit Leo anymore.  I was wanting him to be all "Now, if you follow me, I'll show you were we put all the land mines, tripwires, and the badass hole full of spikes, in case anyone got in the White House!" at the end.

I feel like the country, as envisioned in this show, should be in almost a perpetual state of panic.  Just think, within a few months, the Capitol was blown up, killing most of Congress, and the former Administration, the current President was nearly assassinated and the current VP was just murdered in a very shady murder/suicide with his wife.  Now the President is essentially saying that the threat against he and his family is so huge, and things are so dangerous, that they can't even stay in the White House. 

[Princess Lucky]

2 hours ago, marinw said:

He must have been wearing contact when he was reading the Telepromter. Conatct can be unconfortable, so maybe he just wears them sometimes. And this way Kiefer can put on and take off the gasses in a dramatic manner.

Nailed it. That's 100% the reason for the glasses, I'm sure of it. Now, the grandpa cardigans, well, I can't really explain those.

13 hours ago, paigow said:

Speed had a compelling villain....

So true. That's what the show lacks. We barely got to see MacLeish as a villain for a handful of episodes, and he's gone. We do have Hookstraten who is no villain though she's definitely an antagonist, but that's not enough. We're all trying to figure out the "mole" (if one even exists) but that just means there's no real villain to excite us. Peter Outerbridge will be innocent too,  I suspect (another red herring), so all that's left is Mariana Klaveno, the lady who kidnapped and killed (though probably not personally) Atwood's son. But she's barely on the show.

The problem is, we can't have a compelling villain (or any kind of villain) until we know who's behind the conspiracy. And that mystery has a long way to go, I'm sure. So we're left with this.

Edited March 26, 2017 by Princess Lucky

[orza]

I think the villain may turn out to be a group of people with ties to the former president mentioned in this episode. A domestic conspiracy could go in the direction of a group of ultraconservative old white men who think the country is too liberal and want to "make America great again" by putting their people in key positions to influence decision-making and consolidate power. The plan to install MacLeish in the oval office didn't work so they are trotting out a former president as elder statesman volunteering his advice and support to the inexperienced president. A former president wanting to get actively involved in the government again should raise eyebrows but it sounds like Kirkman may fall for it.

[paigow]

3 hours ago, marinw said:

Kiefer can put on and take off the gasses in a dramatic manner.

But more contact lens comedy....

Emily: Mr. President, you must watch this FBI video feed of Langdon....

Kirkman: [Covering and scratching eyes] Aaarrrgggghhhh!

Emily: Hard to watch sir, but he is a traitor...

Kirkman: Sorry, should have bought gas-permeable, my eyes are so damn dry.....

[shapeshifter]

10 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

. . . Man, this conspiracy is confusing! . . .

So, a former President will be showing up, soon?  I wonder which archetype: suave, "good old boy" Bill Clinton-type or "folksy," everyman George W. Bush-type.  Those are the only two in TV land! 

With a first name of "Cornelius," My first thoughts were either an African American (like on the original 24) or a white guy from the Deep South, a là Jimmy Carter. But Carter is practically up for sainthood these days, and Keifer's already portraying a younger version of present day Carter; I guess a Carter-like guy could be a nice mentor. But former POTUS Cornelius could also possibly be an old school racist guy who is Cornelis VI from a long lineage. Oh dear. Now I'm wondering if the conspirators are part of a multi-generational, multi-era cabal like what ruined (IMO) Timeless. I'd actually prefer a Planet of the Apes Cornelius — or from any planet — to some descendant of a KKK-type group. I like the show, but they seem to have written themselves into a corner with this whole larger-than-life conspiracy.

[OtterMommy]

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

With a first name of "Cornelius," My first thoughts were either an African American (like on the original 24) or a white guy from the Deep South, a là Jimmy Carter. But Carter is practically up for sainthood these days, and Keifer's already portraying a younger version of present day Carter; I guess a Carter-like guy could be a nice mentor. But former POTUS Cornelius could also possibly be an old school racist guy who is Cornelis VI from a long lineage. Oh dear. Now I'm wondering if the conspirators are part of a multi-generational, multi-era cabal like what ruined (IMO) Timeless. I'd actually prefer a Planet of the Apes Cornelius — or from any planet — to some descendant of a KKK-type group. I like the show, but they seem to have written themselves into a corner with this whole larger-than-life conspiracy.

It could also be that once the name "Kimball Hookstraten" came on the scene, they had decided to not use any names that had been in use in the last century or so.  Okay, I'm being snarky with that...

But really, I only think of 2 things when I hear "Cornelius"

1 - One town over from where I live.

2 - Cornelius Fudge

[SharonH58]

I wish Aaron from 24 would show up.  Every time they use that name I think of him.  Glenn Morshower

[Roseanna]

On ‎23‎.‎3‎.‎2017 at 11:09 AM, dwmarch said:

So now MacLeish is a good guy who stopped the bad guys from doing even worse things? To the point where POTUS will declare yes he ordered someone murdered in cold blood but you know what, he's not so bad?

I think Kirkman did a mistake by defending Macleish's an order to kill the assassin. Even Macleish's reasons that he told at that time were bullshit, and now Kirkman know knows his real reasons.

Fine transparency indeed! (Although I think it's absolutely the wrong moment for the president to promise to tell the truth. In the end, yes, but not now.)

On ‎23‎.‎3‎.‎2017 at 0:21 PM, Happy Harpy said:

Hookstraten is so devious, ruthless, and yet not evil. She's an excellent frenemy.

She would be an excellent president. Kirkman isn't IMO but then, this is a fairy tale. 

On ‎23‎.‎3‎.‎2017 at 2:47 PM, waving feather said:

I don't blame Aaron if he switches team. It should be obvious Kirkman doesn't trust him, no matter how he tried to spin it. A whole week to "rest"? Bitch, please. If Kirkman was sincerely, it would only be a day or two. He is always going to trust Emily more than Aaron, because he has worked with her before. In that case, Kirkman should have accepted Aaron's resignation the first time. It is not fair to Aaron.

I think Kirkman should have asked Aaron about the phone call because if Aaron didn't do it or did it for somebody else, that would be a major lead. There is now no reason not to ask because it would make Aaron suspicious, because after he was denied the access to the secret files he knows already that POTUS doesn't trust him. 

As for switching teams, this isn't about the disagreement about policy, liking some other politicing over the current president and/or saving one's own career (as Seth's friends suggested). It's about defending democracy or destroying it.  

On ‎23‎.‎3‎.‎2017 at 7:48 PM, calipiano81 said:

This was the first episode where Hookstraten really pissed me off. I HATE how she threw Aaron under the bus. No Kimble, I blame YOU for the leak...Aaron just mistakenly trusted you, seeing as you are the Speaker of the House and the President asked you for help, not to create problems for him. This may be what happens in Washington, but I don't find it acceptable.

And what did she even gain from it? The country now knows MacLeish ordered the "Shoot to Kill," but then in his address, Kirkman seemed to spin it in a positive light. So what was Hookstraten trying to accomplish by betraying Aaron's confidence? 

I disagree. As the chief of staff, Aaron had no right to tell Kimble if POTUS didn't want her to know.

Kimble was a good motivation to show to the public that Macleish was a sinister character. Kirkman made a colosssal mistake by defending him in public.

On ‎23‎.‎3‎.‎2017 at 8:24 PM, JusLaugh said:

I don't understand the philosophy that the kids will be safer away from the white house. If the security is better at Grandma's house than the friggin White House, we are all in trouble.

I think it's quite obvious. White House could be blown up just as Capitol was. Also othwerwise, Kirkman is continually the target, so Alex and the children are probably safe when they aren't with him. On their own they are unlikely to be killed, although kidnapping and pressuring thereby POTUS is an option. 

BTV, when Mister Pulitzer Winner learns that POTUS has sent his family away, it's not difficult for him to guess the reason. Actually, it's not a bad think if also he would began to investigate the conspiracy. (Although I would have preferred Miss Journalist to continue. I didn't like her methods but it would be funnier to see Seth with a female antagonist.) 

[Roseanna]

On ‎24‎.‎3‎.‎2017 at 8:48 PM, Princess Lucky said:

I was pleasantly surprised they're "allowing" Jason Atwood to grieve, and we're seeing it. I hope that means his son's death will re-integrate him into the main storyline. Malik Yoba is so good, it would be a waste to lose him. I loved seeing him with Hannah again. They have a great vibe together.

I didn't like it all. He is a complete amateur. He was FBI's debuty chief and when his son was kidnapped, he did all wrong. And now when his son is killed, he just mopes about his own mistakes, not caring a bit about his country's fate.

Don't stay under the fire, man! Stand up, catch the culprits first and then is time to grieve!

[Roseanna]

On ‎25‎.‎3‎.‎2017 at 6:50 PM, calipiano81 said:

Langdon was the previous President Richmond's Chief-of-Staff and Aaron was his deputy. Based on the things he said to Hannah when she first ran into him at the cabin (he told her he had been the one calling her and giving her clues; he also said something to the effect that the conspiracy ran very deep) and the fact that he is hiding out, it appears that he may know a lot about the conspiracy, but is very much against it and wants it stopped - hence, at the moment, he appears not to be one of the bad guys.

It was a phone call Aaron supposedly made during the previous administration, prior to the bombing, which caused the Capitol threat assessment report to be suppressed.

Maybe Langdon was the one who made the phone call because he knew about the secret room (he gave Hannah the wink)? Langdon was supposed to be abroad and it's so far supposed that as his deputy Aaron used his phone.

But why didn't Langdon earlier contact Aaron whom he did know instead of Hannah whom he didn't?

[Roseanna]

On ‎24‎.‎3‎.‎2017 at 5:26 PM, TheGreenWave said:

I'm hoping there is more behind the MacLeish story than his unit was set up, they killed a bunch of friendlies, and then they came back to the US and no one cared about their sacrifice as the reason for blowing up most of the government.  When Hannah was retelling the story to Kirkman, I kept expecting her to say, "but, there has to be more than that behind why he agreed to do this."  Pretty flimsy otherwise IMO.

Did I understand it right: in Afghanistan there was one CIA quy whose action caused all this (Catalan?) and MacLeish's men wanted to revenge him By killing him but MacLeish saved him.  But back at home, MacLeish agreed to destroy the whole government although most of its members had no idea about the happening. Rational eh?

On ‎24‎.‎3‎.‎2017 at 8:48 PM, Princess Lucky said:

Agreed. That's it? He was "radicalized" because he felt betrayed? And where does Mrs. MacLeish fit in? She seemed to be even more of a believer. I think we may know the reason why MacLeish was willing to betray his country, but we don't know who approached him, and what their plan is. Still, this was a very underwhelming "reveal".

Did Mrs MacLeish marry him in order to become his supervisor? But didn't they tell when dining with Kiefer and his wife that they met as students?

[snarkylady]

On 3/26/2017 at 6:32 PM, SharonH58 said:

I wish Aaron from 24 would show up.  Every time they use that name I think of him.  Glenn Morshower

I've been thinking of Mike filling the Aaron Pierce role here.  Hoping he doesn't turn out to be one of the bad guys.  And yes, Glenn Morshower would be welcome in any role. 

[Roseanna]

On ‎24‎.‎3‎.‎2017 at 9:29 PM, kili said:

I'm not entirely sure why he feels betrayed. The mission was to deliver something to a supposed ally in-country. It turns out the ally was playing them. Maybe the government should have vetted the ally better, but it's not a straight up betrayal.

Maybe MacLeish was simple so childish that he couldn't undertand that it's human to make mistakes.

Whatever happened in Afghanistan, after that the government protected MacLeish. Killing civilians was kept secret, and instead he was declared a hero and it was because of this, he was elected to the House. 

On ‎24‎.‎3‎.‎2017 at 10:32 PM, Danielg342 said:

My guess is that Hookstraten felt Leonard would provide the greatest punch, and he'd likely be the only one she felt could report on something as outlandish as what McLeish did and still be believed. We have to remember if reports came out that an incident like McLeish killing Catahan happened in real life there would be a lot of skepticism because it's fodder for conspiracy theories. A "regular" reporter just wouldn't cut it.

Not in ordinary circumstances. But after Capitol was blown up, POTUS was tried to assassinate and VP was shot By his wife, many people would have believed even worse.

Many sensible persons would have asked: when the assassin was killed, how many police did he kill before? Nobody - how is it possible? Who wanted to silence the assassin? Who would benefit of POTUS's death?

[MaryPatShelby]

On 3/22/2017 at 10:17 PM, Frozendiva said:

Sutherland is really doing well as the President. So far, handling the position with honour. Just wish it had more Sorkin-like writing.

 

I thought of Sorkin during this episode when the Abe character mentioned being on the debate club at Northwestern.  Reciting one's credentials (paraphrasing Natalie from Sports Night here: "I've got a journalism degree from Northwestern , for God's sake") is a Sorkinism, and here it was happening on Designated Survivor!!

On 3/23/2017 at 0:18 PM, forumfish said:

I'd love to see Haysbert, but I saw him on a commercial for Shots Fired (Fox). I'd like to see Gerald McRaney, but the new version of 24 has him.

Ooh, I'd love to see (and hear) "Bill Buchanan" on my screen again -- anyone know if James Morrison is available?

Please no Gerald McRaney.  My UO.