S21.E12: The Final Rose/S21.E13: After the Final Rose

[OnceSane]

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12. Nick must choose between the final two bachelorettes.

 

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13. Nick recaps the season in an interview with Chris Harrison.

[Meowwww]

Nick's mom for the win. I love her. 

[huahaha]

Why is Raven always at the bottom of the kiss? Nick is safely on top while Raven bathes in a swamp or freezes on the ice.

[FlyingEgret]

Nick feels very strongly for her and when he's been with her he's only thought of her.  You can substitute either name for "her"

[huahaha]

I cannot believe Nick is letting Raven do this whole spiel. He was so angry that Kaitlyn let him propose instead of telling him no beforehand. That was just brutal and unnecessary.

[FlyingEgret]

Wait, Raven lost Nick and her coat???

[Artsda]

Aww I did love that ending with Nick & Vanessa. 

[bosawks]

Raven looks like she spent the time since filming watching The Addams Family and Tangled.

[BuckeyeLou]

22 minutes ago, FlyingEgret said:

Wait, Raven lost Nick and her coat???

Thats what I wondered too!  Raven went in wearing a beautiful long fur coat & then when she leaves, they send her out into the cold with no coat on!

[dbell1]

Raven always needs to wear false eyelashes. She looks so much better without spider legs on her lashes. 

As for the proposal, well Santa is also a fantasy. 

[KenyaJ]

Puppies! The puppies were hands down the best part of the episode.

I get that Nick’e family was traumatized by all the times he’s been on this show and gotten rejected, but my god, that made for some downer home visits.  And I didn’t feel like the episode got any better until Nick and Raven’s last date. Finally there was fun and laughter and I didn’t want to slit my wrists.

Despite that, I still expected Nick to pick Vanessa, and I smiled during the proposal. But Vanessa’s interview with Chris didn't make me super confident about her prospects with Nick. Also, I’ve watched every season of this show since Andrew Firestone’s and I don’t remember the Final One ever being interviewed solo in the absence of drama. WTH?

Finally, I’ve been ambivalent about Raven all season, but she was all class on ATFR and I’ve never liked her more.

[Armchair Critic]

Not a very passionate kiss from Vanessa. I thought maybe Nick would say he wants Rachel back.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Vanessa is exhausting.  I am ready to SLEEP. 

I've only watched a couple ATFRs.  Do they look extremely uncomfortable and unhappy or is it just me?  How long has it been since the proposal?

I was a little shocked Vanessa and even CHRIS were so open about how much difficulty Nick and Vanessa are having ALREADY.  

I don't know how Kaitlyn and Shawn were on ATFR but they still seem so happy NOW.

Vanessa seems so defensive about DWTS!

Edited March 14, 2017 by Ms Blue Jay

[annewithaneee]

I'm genuinely surprised at how little I care for Nick, Vanessa, and Raven. I mean, I generally don't care for the Bachelor(ette) or either of their final two, because the nature of this show and its 'journeys' and wasting a lot of beautiful scenery and generic adult contemporary/country musicians on a bunch of maddeningly bland personalities spouting word-salad platitudes -- but I was genuinely cheering for a Finnish avalanche to win the finale. 

I don't think Vanessa is too good for Nick. There's something about her that gets under my skin, that feels deeply inauthentic. In that way, I feel like they're a terrific match; together she and Nick can strive for middling success on the ABC/Disney family in whatever capacity they can. She just feels like that particular breed of modern reality TV character who's a little too savvy, like she came onto the show with a defined gameplay and brand in mind, and at times found the necessary mechanics of the show far beneath her. Like she self-produced, but the show let her get away with it. Fair play to her, I guess, but I hope they fade into obscurity quickly. I'm sure they have Marriage Bootcamps and Freeform spinoffs and all kinds of other sad little stars in their eyes though.

I'm really ready for Rachel's season, as it seems like this show has been for a month-ish now. I hope to all the reality gods that 'the process' doesn't dull her personality and wit. I was no big fan of Emily Maynard, but her Bachelorette was the most recent one I enjoyed, because she seemed to maintain control throughout and kept things driving forward. I could see Rachel doing the same thing, and I hope she pulls it off.

Edited March 14, 2017 by annewithaneee

[scenicbyway]

I loved that Raven had no tears for him, it was like the spell was broken in that moment.  

Nick:  I'll miss you.

Raven:  I know

Audience: Smacks forehead 

I don't buy for a moment that he started loving her at the second rose ceremony.  If they had fun, they sure didn't show it.

I was waiting for Neil Lane to say, "So Nick, the usual? And slide the ring box to him."

Watching after the final rose, Nick seems completely miserable and nervous.  He could atleast smile a little.  Vanessa does all the talking while he sulks behind her.

Ah a smile, because he's going on dwts.

Oh boy...breakup in 3..2..1.

[felicity porter]

Holy smokes.  I don't watch this show very much, but is there usually this much tension between the winner and lead??  It's downright uncomfortable.  I feel like I'm on a double date and the other couple just got into a huge fight.

[Armchair Critic]

Is Vanessa going to marry Nick out of spite?  

[Artsda]

The alluding to Trump being an issue to her moving made me laugh. Nick didn't want to go there and say anything political. 

[scenicbyway]

2 minutes ago, Armchair Critic said:

Is Vanessa going to marry Nick out of spite?  

It would seem so.  Hopefully his family will swoop in and save him.

[KenyaJ]

2 minutes ago, scenicbyway said:

I was waiting for Neil Lane to say, "So Nick, the usual? And slide the ring box to him."

I was hoping he could get a "Buy 2, Get 1 Free" offer.

I've never seen an interview with the "happy" couple that was so short, and yet, it felt like it would never end. That was excruciating. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

To spite who?  Rachel?  Not being facetious I genuinely want to know!

[scenicbyway]

4 minutes ago, felicity porter said:

Holy smokes.  I don't watch this show very much, but is there usually this much tension between the winner and lead??  It's downright uncomfortable.  I feel like I'm on a double date and the other couple just got into a huge fight.

Seriously, this is the least happy couple I've seen.  He looks like he can't stand her.  Like it's physically hurting him to be there.  So strange.

[LittleCabbage]

I hate to say it, but Nick should really listen to his parents and try a relationship with a woman outside his usual 'type.' Clearly the type isn't working for him, if the tension and strain I just saw between Vanessa and Nick is any indication. 

[hyacinth]

I don't think he likes Vanessa anymore.   In his defense, who could?   

I figured out what he and Vanessa initially had in common.   Humorless parents!   I missed Corinne's Dad.   

Edited March 14, 2017 by hyacinth

[Armchair Critic]

Just now, Ms Blue Jay said:

To spite who?

To spite the critics and skeptics, just to prove they are committed (even if they can barely tolerate each other).

[PhysNerd]

If I were Nick, I would not have picked either one for the following reasons:

1) Raven--> she is fun and easygoing.  Honestly, if she were a bit older, then I think she would be great for Nick.  He really seems to enjoy being around her.  Laughter goes a long way during marriage.  However, she is significantly younger than Nick, which is concerning.

2) Vanessa--> can you say "drama queen?"  Her emotions are all over the place.  I feel exhausted just watching her on tv, so I can't imagine what it would be like to deal with her in person. She may be 29, but she has a lot of growing up to do.  She actually comes across as being less mature than Raven at times.

Nevertheless, I hope he and Vanessa get married and have a lasting marriage so that we don't have to hear anymore whining from either of them again.

Edited March 14, 2017 by PhysNerd

[scenicbyway]

1 minute ago, LittleCabbage said:

I hate to say it, but Nick should really listen to his parents and try a relationship with a woman outside his usual 'type.' Clearly the type isn't working for him, if the tension and strain I just saw between Vanessa and Nick is any indication. 

I get that he wants a strong woman and that's great, but there's got to be some part of his "type" that doesn't work long term for him.  Until he figures that out, he's going to be single.

[Armchair Critic]

This is what the big shocker is? Rachel doesn't seem pleased. Guess they need something "dramatic" to take the focus off the non-chemistry between Nick and Vanessa.

[huahaha]

3 minutes ago, scenicbyway said:

I get that he wants a strong woman and that's great, but there's got to be some part of his "type" that doesn't work long term for him.  Until he figures that out, he's going to be single.

Yeah, there are plenty of strong women out there who aren't the complete bitches that Nick insists on going for. Rachel was one.

To quote the infamous Patti Stanger, his picker is off. Maybe he should go on one of her shows next.

[Artsda]

This seems uncomfortable and awkward for live tv.

[annewithaneee]

This is a terrible and awkward surprise for a couple of limo arrivals -- I hope they re-film these later for the affected guys. The props people frantically wheeling in fake trees and stuff was hilarious, though. And really, her look tonight -- black jumpsuit, gorgous cleave, cape-like sleeves, is way better than the standard Bachelorette grown-up prom dress uniform though.

And oh my goooood that dude just said "I'm ready to go black and never go back" nooooooo why why why.

[scenicbyway]

6 minutes ago, Armchair Critic said:

This is what the big shocker is? Rachel doesn't seem pleased. Guess they need something "dramatic" to take the focus off the non-chemistry between Nick and Vanessa.

Atleast the air is back in the room.  It felt like the life had been sucked out of it before.

[KenyaJ]

OMG, Rachel has so much composure to be doing this on live TV without being warned ahead of time. I'd be catatonic right now.

But OMG, Dean. Please never say that to a black woman again. JFC.

Edited March 14, 2017 by KenyaJ

[Armchair Critic]

1 minute ago, Artsda said:

 

This seems uncomfortable and awkward for live tv.

 

I think they already knew Nick & Vanessa were going to be a flop so they needed a distraction but this is awkward.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I am SPEECHLESS at that Bachelorette preview.  So many things happened.  Like, haha.... hahahahahahhaahahahhahahaha

[371012]

It's the credits, but apparently Nick and Vanessa have already left the building.

[PhysNerd]

10 minutes ago, scenicbyway said:

I get that he wants a strong woman and that's great, but there's got to be some part of his "type" that doesn't work long term for him.  Until he figures that out, he's going to be single.

His problem lies with his definition of a "strong woman."  Strong does not mean you are a drama queen who loves to argue for the sake of arguing.  A strong woman is loving, speaks up about her needs and cares about her partner's needs. Huahaha, is correct in saying that Rachel is a perfect example of a strong woman.  Nick is terrible at choosing partners.  If I were him, I would just have his parents set him up with a nice woman.

[JenE4]

Nick says he's in Finland where Santa lives. Oh, no. Is someone going to tell him? Mama Viall tries to clue him in by wearing Dasher's pelt as a vest. 

These live audience members sure look snazzy compared to the TWTA crowd. Nary a bedazzled or custom-printed t-shirt to be seen! How are we supposed to know whom they're rooting for without it emblazoned on their outfits?

I had forgotten that the Vialls met Raven. Raven secures Bella's vote and that's about that--nothing more to see here.

Vanessa's vomiting story brings Mama Viall to tears. Then Vanessa sets herself back by saying she can't see herself engaged to Nick. She gives the same speech verbatim to Papa Viall, and now HE's crying. Now Vanessa is crying! Everyone is crying! 

Tears for Vanessa > polite smiles for Raven. They don't need t-shirts for me to know the Vialls (minus Bella) are Team Vanessa. Or, at this point, is sounds like Team Whomever Says Yes.

"Out comes Santa Claus!" squeals Vanessa. Yeah, these two (Vanessa and Nick, not Vanessa and Santa) are meant for each other. Except more crying--and these seem to be confused/upset/jealous tears. Of course the producers just want us to think Nick will be dumped at proposal point once again. Nick and Vanessa have a looooooooooooong talk that boils down to them both wanting the other to be 100% certain about their feelings before they can open up their own feelings. This is a slight variation on the compromise is important as long as YOU compromise talk of last week. Vanessa smiles, and I think she feels better, but all at once she's crying again! More tears on this one episode than the whole rest of the season put together.

Raven and Nick laughing and being silly juxtaposed with ALL that crying from the Vanessa date is the first time I see why Raven is in the finals. I was kind of hoping the husky puppies were actually wolf pups and it would be The Most Dramatic Finale in Bachelor History when mama wolf arrived on the scene, but alas, a mauling was not The Bachelor First that Harrison promised.

Raven, 24, has been searching for a relationship like this for her "whole adult life"! Vanessa still doesn't know whether she wants to get engaged, saving face in case he picks Raven--well, I didn't want to marry you anyway! If Nick chooses the largest stone ring Neil Lane has made in Bachelor History, she's in; if not, she'll be watching this back yelling at him for not getting that one.

Why is Nick letting Raven give her "proposal" if he doesn't want to put her what he went through? And then he doesn't even give her back her coat for the ride out?! Back to wardrobe!

It's the big ring! She'll say yes! Nick starts talking to Vanessa first--even though he made Raven talk first! Humph! Oh, now she's talking after he makes it clear it's her! More crying--finally happy tears! This show should have been sponsored by Kleenex. "Let's go do it. Literally." Classy ending there, Vanessa.

40 minutes of Vanessa and Nick saying how much they fight and how they are taking baby steps, etc. Either this doesn't bode well, or they'll surprisingly make it because they're at least being realistic and aren't blinded by love.

Loving that Rachel isn't even pretending that she's healing her heartbreak and putting on a brave face to find love again, like they're "supposed to do." These bachelor meetings are cringeworthy. Now I know why they normally have a gimmick. They don't know what to do but give a side hug pose for an imaginary picture. Although dancing with the last guy was cute.

[ragingpixie]

What a weird season.

[Artsda]

I think the entire plot of will Vanessa say yes was just to have the narrative out there for Nick's possible proposing again and being not chosen.

[Madding crowd]

I liked having a few guys come out to meet Rachel. Doing some new things makes the show interesting; doing things like getting rid of cocktail parties and having the rose ceremonies in the beginning of the show, not so much. Vanessa seemed like a total nag throughout the entire show. She never seemed like she was having fun and I just don't see her really being in love with Nick. Of course, I don't think he really wants to get married either. He is already 36, and I believe he is more interested in being on TV shows than anything else. Raven seems like a lot of fun, but seemed way too young for Nick. She also didn't look too broken up when he didn't choose her. Nick and Vanessa looked tense on ATFR and Nick didn't say much at all. 

[truthaboutluv]

The hell, how did I miss 40 comments? So I like Nick and I like Vanessa but I've always said the AFR truly tells the tale and yeah, not hopeful there. I thought Nick look very subdued and admitting struggles at the AFR is usually code for the inevitable breakup. Hell it almost feels like that's why Fleiss pulled that stunt with Rachel at the end, to end on a lighter note. I guess kudos to them for being honest in some sense and not sugar coating shit but yeah I'll be shocked if the breakup doesn't come in the next few months. What I find odd is that Fleiss would agree to let Nick do DWTS. Also interesting, Vanessa confirmed that no, she hadn't watched the show much and two, moving is actually not the issue for them. Go figure. 

[TheFinalRose]

I did love Finland. That was the most beautiful setting the Bachelor has ever been to. The horseback ride through the woods was stunning, not to mention Santa Claus and the puppies.  Raven and Nick's date was so fun .... but why have fun when you can have an emotional wreck instead?

That being said, they had one theme: Nick was afraid of being rejected, but even after he wasn't rejected, it was as if Chris Harrison could not let it go. Way to de-romanticize the journey guys.   I'm not more pessimistic about Nick and Vanessa than the rest of the couples that come out of this franchise, but Chris was pretty much a huge downer with the way he ran the ATFR. What a buzzkill.   

That bit with Rachel was reaching. So dumb.

[waving feather]

It was sort of like the Chris Soules and Whitney ATFR, in that the woman did most of the talking while the man just sat back and looked subdued. For Chris and Whitney, that continued during their media rounds as well. Let's see if the same thing happens during Nick and Vanessa.

[Artsda]

5 minutes ago, TheFinalRose said:

That being said, they had one theme: Nick was afraid of being rejected, but even after he wasn't rejected, it was as if Chris Harrison could not let it go. Way to de-romanticize the journey guys.   I'm not more pessimistic about Nick and Vanessa than the rest of the couples that come out of this franchise, but Chris was pretty much a huge downer with the way he ran the ATFR. What a buzzkill.   

I agree, I think it probably made Nick retract a bit. I'm interested to see how they are on Kimmel.

[jade.black]

I am furious that they didn't even let Nick be the one to appear in control on HIS OWN DAMN SEASON. It was all about whether or not Vanessa would choose him. Give the poor guy a break! I have never seen a finalist come out and NOT have to be the first one to talk, but Nick even had to start his speech to her and profess his love to her before she had to say a word.

He's too good for her. He was so emotional during the proposal and she just looked pleased that she finally got her validation. And who meets her boyfriend's clearly scarred parents (I think they need therapy with the amount of times they've had to appear on this show) after they've seen him dumped twice on national TV and tells them that she doesn't know if she'd accept a proposal from him?!

Ugh. She's such a drain.

I called Rachel meeting her guys early as the surprise. So awkward. I think they wanted to show that they were providing diverse contestants. The last guy's dance was cute and he was the only one who seemed confident. Guy #1 was best looking. I'm usually no fan of jumpsuits, but Rachel looked banging.

Nick's post-meeting-the-girls conversation with his parents came across like an intervention. 

[lightbeam]

Wow, Rachel was grace under pressure!

Nick looked miserable. 

[coconutcookie]

Everytime I see Vanessa I think she's drop-dead gorgeous.  She has fabulous hair.  But, then, there's something about her that puts me off.  It's just the opposite with Raven.  I think she's a bit odd looking, but she grows on me.  She was especially pretty and charming tonight on ATFR.  I thought if Nick was serious about getting married he'd have picked Raven, so when he picked Vanessa I thought he was looking for a way out.

[oakville]

I am happy for Nick & Vanessa. Vanessa is from my hometown, so I am proud of her. She will be tough on Nick & won't put up with his nonsense. I like Raven. She is very composed & will do well on Bachelor in Paradise.

[catrice2]

Can't wait to read all the comments!  So Bachelorette started and it was awkward?  Because Rachel is awkward?  Were the men attractive??!!