S01.E18: Moonshadow

[HeyThere83]

36 minutes ago, Cardie said:

!?! Yes, he obviously gave up his dreams of show biz to toil in a job he hated--not. His idyllic marriage has been going on for two long years and they don't have any children.

I have no idea why he's the inspiration. Anyone know if he was married before? Or in other serious relationships that maybe he wanted to base this on so he could show how superior he was to his ex?? I dunno....

[Guest]

Funny, I was just thinking that they write parenting truly shitty and wondered if Fogelman was a parent and just looked it up.  The Pearsons are either wringing their hands in frustrated helplessness or playing clown to their kids, it seems like.  Neither feels realistic to me.  Moore and Ventimiglia aren't parents, either.  I do get a feeling that this is what non-parents think parenting must be like.  

[DrSpaceman73]

7 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Weren't we led to believe that he had his first drink in years after he and Rebecca had their Valentine's Day fight?

I may be confused about the timeline, but here's how I understood it:

Jack starts drinking frequently with Miguel after work in 1989. Rebecca calls him out on it and he stops cold turkey. Wouldn't even have one beer at the pool in the following episode. Shortly after that, the Randall private school thing comes up, and Jack takes a job with Miguel instead of starting his own company. That's when he starts working long hours at the office. Things continue like that until fall 1995 (the football episode), when Rebecca starts singing with the band locally. Jack rearranges his schedule so he can be there for the kids' activities while Rebecca is rehearsing/performing. He's not too happy about it, telling Miguel and Shelly at dinner (right before *they* announce their divorce) that if he wants to see his wife, he has to come to one of her shows. On their wedding anniversary in early 1996 Rebecca asks to go on tour, and Jack initially agrees, but then he comes to her V-Day show, sees her and Ben eye-fuck, and finds out from Ben that Rebecca used to date him. They have the big fight, Jack goes to their V-Day dinner date alone, and that's when he has his first drink since 1989. Rebecca's statement in the season finale that he "quit cold turkey seven years ago" supports that.

I meant more specifically recently on the show.  He has been drinking after and possibly during work, for probably longer than the last few weeks, not working until 8 PM.  I know he stopped for many years after the episode earlier in the season. 

[chocolatine]

27 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

I meant more specifically recently on the show.  He has been drinking after and possibly during work, for probably longer than the last few weeks, not working until 8 PM.  I know he stopped for many years after the episode earlier in the season. 

There's been no indication of that. Rebecca would have noticed if he'd been coming home drunk. Even on the nights she was singing and coming home late, they still slept in the same bed; she would have smelled the alcohol on him. The scene of him ordering and drinking a scotch after the V-Day fight played very much like that was his first drink in years.

[Guest]

That's what I thought, too.  Didn't Rebecca say in the fight something you like, '7 years without it and you picked tonight to fall off the wagon?'

[chocolatine]

3 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

That's what I thought, too.  Didn't Rebecca say in the fight something you like, '7 years without it and you picked tonight to fall off the wagon?'

I thought it was more along the lines of "you quit cold-turkey seven years ago, why can't you do that now?" But yes, she definitely said "seven years".

[SlackerInc]

2 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

That's what I thought, too.  Didn't Rebecca say in the fight something you like, '7 years without it and you picked tonight to fall off the wagon?'

Maybe, but he also said he had been drinking again "for a few weeks".  So while you might think she would have been able to tell, apparently they are saying that no, she wasn't able to.

[JudyObscure]

11 hours ago, Bringonthedrama said:

Thank you! I wanted to comment on your note here because I I see it as a definite problem for actors Milo and Mandy. I believe both M&M are talented and doing the best they can with what little they have to go on - otherwise their part of the show wouldn't have gotten significant positive attention thus far. Mandy in particular has gotten some shade for her portrayal of Rebecca.  Yet she can only act based on what she's reading in the script, and what direction she's been given regarding motivation. Not sure if anyone here has seen Saved!, a movie where MM starred when she was much younger. Her character was self-righteous (mostly due to her upbringing, it seemed), controlling in 'friendships', and in time angry and jealous, too.  The storyline, including her lines in a rant, spelled out her motivations quite well. In the last 10 minutes or so of the movie, she has a breakdown. Her acting (with two others) was quite strong; the lines and her tone and posture left no question about her getting real with herself.  MM is capable of a really solid performance - when the writing tells her what she is feeling and why she's doing this.

 

I think what you refer to may explain a lot of the split perspective on Rebecca.  I think many people are predisposed to like Rebecca because they have admired Mandy Moore since she was a teen.  For example, you think she is a fine actress and it's only her weak lines that make some of us dislike Moore/Rebecca.  On the other side, I never heard of her before this show, didn't see her early promise in teen movies, and think she is a really poor actress and that her acting probably is a big part of why I don't like, "Rebecca." I think even her appearance today is influenced by how she looked as a teen in the minds of many.  One poster said, a few weeks ago, that she found it hard to believe that anyone would accept, gasp, the beautiful Mandy Moore, as just a suburban housewife.  I thought, who, that big awkward woman with the lantern jaw? So for me it's just the opposite of the fans who grew up with her.  I'm thrown out of every scene she plays by how amateurish I think her performance is up against the rest of the cast.  It's definitely more than her lines in any given episode, the episode where she was due to deliver and walked to the liquor store was the very worst for me.  Her "ditzy housewife," played out like a kid's imitation of  an, "I Love Lucy," episode, to me.

We do agree on one thing and that is that the writing for her character isn't the best, but I think a better actress could deliver them so that we had more sympathy for the woman behind the words.

Edited March 19, 2017 by JudyObscure

[Bringonthedrama]

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

I think what you refer to may explain a lot of the split perspective on Rebecca.  I think many people are predisposed to like Rebecca because they have admired Mandy Moore since she was a teen.  For example, you think she is a fine actress and it's only her weak lines that make some of us dislike Moore/Rebecca.  On the other side, I never heard of her before this show, didn't see her early promise in teen movies, and think she is a really poor actress and that her acting probably is a big part of why I don't like, "Rebecca." I think even her appearance today is influenced by how she looked as a teen in the minds of many.  One poster said, a few weeks ago, that she found it hard to believe that anyone would accept, gasp, the beautiful Mandy Moore, as just a suburban housewife. 

Interesting. That poster you mention sounds like a MM superfan. I don't own MM's music, but I saw her in starring roles in A Walk to Remember and Saved!. The writing for AWTR had MM playing a high school senior who was an OTT (beyond Jack in TIU) perfect Christian girl, even after the audience found out sad news. The character wasn't allowed to get really angry (which I thought was weak writing). Her only not-perfect moment was a conversation with her Reverend dad about 'sinful' behavior, after he saw her *gasp* kissing a boy, which wasn't just a peck on the lips. In contrast, MM played a believable mean girl (due to seriously misguided 'Christian' thinking) in Saved!, with her best moments as an actress (skill in transitioning a character) in the last 15-30 minutes of the movie. Maybe it's better to say she can perform very well as an actress *under certain circumstances*? I believe that actors need strong writing and clear, good direction in order to do their jobs well. 

Another poster mentioned that actors MM and MV are not parents, so their portrayal of J&R's behavior with the kids is how they *think* parents would handle situations. That's a good point.

[DrSpaceman73]

10 hours ago, chocolatine said:

There's been no indication of that. Rebecca would have noticed if he'd been coming home drunk. Even on the nights she was singing and coming home late, they still slept in the same bed; she would have smelled the alcohol on him. The scene of him ordering and drinking a scotch after the V-Day fight played very much like that was his first drink in years.

Rebecca just admitted when he told her had been drinking for the last few weeks that she "had no idea" in this episode, so the idea she would have noticed something is a fallacy. 

And alcoholics or those in a binge very often lie about their drinking.  No reason to think he wouldnt have as well.  Maybe that was the first drink he had after the Valentine's day fight, but just based on that scene alone, I would not assume that is the case.  He could have been sneaking drinks here and there at work, after work, at home and they just used that scene to emphasize his return to alcohol, not as the actual time he started back.

Either way though, how long was not really my point.  The main point was him getting home late recently was not him working but him drinking again, however long that has been going on.  2 weeks, 4 weeks, whatever. 

Edited March 19, 2017 by DrSpaceman73

[Clanstarling]

@JudyObscure, I agree that at least some of the love for Rebecca is due to love for Mandy Moore. I'd never seen her act before, and only had a vague memory that she was a singer, so I didn't have any affection to overcome what I think is unremarkable acting. I think there's a great deal of affection in that regard for Milo as well (and I did have it as well at first). Interestingly enough (to me anyway), although I don't like Moore's acting, and don't particularly like the character (who I have some issues with regarding Randall), I'm more on her side than Jack's in most of these discussions.

That being said, it would be nice for the writing to be more even handed on a consistent basis. They've certainly put in scenes to provide clues that Jack's not all that, but they've been few and far between so that the climax of the season doesn't really illicit the tragedy of a marriage on the edge - but more of a who's wrong and who's right. And in a long marriage, there just isn't that kind of clarity unless someone does something objectively horrible.

[Guest]

I thought I saw in an article that the scene at the end of the v-day ep with Jack ordering that drink was him falling off the wagon.  But it could've just been a recap and that viewer interpreted it that way.  

Do we know how much time has passed between that night and opening night of the tour?  I guess that's the 'few weeks' he's been drinking, right?

I tend to believe Rebecca that Jack's not really an alcoholic, based on what we've been shown so far.  Not to start a debate on what is and isn't, but I've seen nothing to suggest he's drinking at or before work, secretly at home, or was drinking over those 7 years, for example.  I feel like he gave up drinking "for her" and now that she isn't giving up singing "for him" anymore, he's going to soothe that pain with drinking.  

I assume Jack's been working late for years, not weeks.  I don't think Rebecca's resentment of that would come from just the weeks leading up to her tour.  That would be unreasonable to me.

I was curious if the other two main writers of the show were parents but it's hard to tell.  They appear to be both young and recent graduates so I'm guessing not but who knows.  They appear to be a black man and woman.  I hope the portrayal of Randall's family from an ethnic perspective is better than the portrayal of parenting in general.  

ETA:  Or maybe not.  This says there are two new co-show runners for season 2 and they're two different people from the two that came up above when I googled the show's writers.  http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/is-us-elevates-duo-showrunners-season-2-983322

Edited March 19, 2017 by Guest

[Tiger]

Did the cast shoot and screen a different version of the finale than the one NBC aired?

Because I read interviews with Sterling and Chrissy about the finale and many of their comments address things we just didnt see.  In the least, they both seem to be under the impression that the audiance was given big clues about how Jack died; I didnt see one.

[laurakaye]

15 hours ago, HeyThere83 said:

I just read an interview, and if I read it correctly, the inspiration for Jack is Dan Fogelman himself. I had never read that before, so I am going to double check what I read. But if that's true it would explain so much.

Just double checked, and yes, it says that he based Jack on himself and had originally envisioned someone more "average" looking in the role, but hired Milo for it.

This might be the wrong thread...but if Fogelman was looking for "average," I think Milo fits the bill just fine.

 

14 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Funny, I was just thinking that they write parenting truly shitty and wondered if Fogelman was a parent and just looked it up.  The Pearsons are either wringing their hands in frustrated helplessness or playing clown to their kids, it seems like.  Neither feels realistic to me.  Moore and Ventimiglia aren't parents, either.  I do get a feeling that this is what non-parents think parenting must be like.  

+++1.  One small scene that bothered the crap out of me was when J & R threw that huge birthday party for their triplets and all of their friends, and in the midst of the chaos, stopped to make out and "sweet monologue" each other in the living room.  Um...no freaking way.  You have that many young kids in your house?  You'd be pulling your hair out trying to keep an eye on all of them.  And I felt that the sole purpose for that scene was so that one little boy could spy them smooching and say, "gross."  Which was meant to reinforce how sweet and lovey Jack and Rebecca were to each other.  No, just no.  For realism's sake, the two could've met in the kitchen, looked at each other and laughed in a "what the hell were we thinking with this party?' kind of manner, quickly kissed and said, "okay, you take the living room, I'll take the backyard."  

 

1 hour ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Do we know how much time has passed between that night and opening night of the tour?  I guess that's the 'few weeks' he's been drinking, right?

I assume Jack's been working late for years, not weeks.  I don't think Rebecca's resentment of that would come from just the weeks leading up to her tour.  That would be unreasonable to me.

File it under "things we should know but don't."  The timelines on many of these storylines are very, very fuzzy.  Do the writers even know?  Or do they think the viewers won't notice or care?

 

1 hour ago, Tiger said:

Did the cast shoot and screen a different version of the finale than the one NBC aired?

Because I read interviews with Sterling and Chrissy about the finale and many of their comments address things we just didnt see.  In the least, they both seem to be under the impression that the audiance was given big clues about how Jack died; I didnt see one.

This almost makes me want to rage-watch season two.

Things we didn't see?  Overall, it seems that many viewers were underwhelmed by the season finale, even those viewers that love the show.  And yet from everything I have read, the sentiment at feeling gypped that we don't know how Jack died is pretty strong.  Are the actors reacting to the backlash from viewers by saying "you just weren't paying enough attention?"  Because I call BS on that.  The loyal viewers were, if anything, paying extremely close attention because the big question was, how did Jack die?  And if that question wasn't answered, it's certainly not the viewers' fault!  That's actually a bit insulting to the people that love this show, IMO.

Edited March 19, 2017 by laurakaye

[sasha206]

56 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

This might be the wrong thread...but if Fogelman was looking for "average," I think Milo fits the bill just fine.

+++1.  One small scene that bothered the crap out of me was when J & R threw that huge birthday party for their triplets and all of their friends, and in the midst of the chaos, stopped to make out and "sweet monologue" each other in the living room.  Um...no freaking way.  You have that many young kids in your house?  You'd be pulling your hair out trying to keep an eye on all of them.  And I felt that the sole purpose for that scene was so that one little boy could spy them smooching and say, "gross."  Which was meant to reinforce how sweet and lovey Jack and Rebecca were to each other.  No, just no.  For realism's sake, the two could've met in the kitchen, looked at each other and laughed in a "what the hell were we thinking with this party?' kind of manner, quickly kissed and said, "okay, you take the living room, I'll take the backyard."  

 

I also don't think Milo is all that either.  I find his voice alone irritating.  It almost sounds like he's purposefully trying to make his voice in a lower register and it feels inauthentic.

On the party, I commented on that issue thread on their shitty parenting in how they made a big deal TO RANDALL that he had no friends there.  And they questioned him whether he gave out the invitations.  Anyone who has been a parent and in that position would've just made the decision at that point to combine all parties -- make it more of a "station" type of party.  You don't force your kid to have to make some comment like, "All I need are a couple of friends..." which of course was another in the typical unrealistic reaction by a kid.

4 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I think what you refer to may explain a lot of the split perspective on Rebecca.  I think many people are predisposed to like Rebecca because they have admired Mandy Moore since she was a teen.  For example, you think she is a fine actress and it's only her weak lines that make some of us dislike Moore/Rebecca.  On the other side, I never heard of her before this show, didn't see her early promise in teen movies, and think she is a really poor actress and that her acting probably is a big part of why I don't like, "Rebecca." I think even her appearance today is influenced by how she looked as a teen in the minds of many.  One poster said, a few weeks ago, that she found it hard to believe that anyone would accept, gasp, the beautiful Mandy Moore, as just a suburban housewife.  I thought, who, that big awkward woman with the lantern jaw? So for me it's just the opposite of the fans who grew up with her.  I'm thrown out of every scene she plays by how amateurish I think her performance is up against the rest of the cast.  It's definitely more than her lines in any given episode, the episode where she was due to deliver and walked to the liquor store was the very worst for me.  Her "ditzy housewife," played out like a kid's imitation of  an, "I Love Lucy," episode, to me.

We do agree on one thing and that is that the writing for her character isn't the best, but I think a better actress could deliver them so that we had more sympathy for the woman behind the words.

That's so funny about "latern jaw."  I also have never thought Mandy Moore was anything but kinda cute.  The first few episodes, I thought she was a decent actress and was impressed.  But now I think my being impressed has more to do with her being a teen pop idol at one point and being surprised she was decent.  Now I'm iffy on her.  I don't think she's bad, but I don't think she's giving a layered, nuanced performance either.  I also think the writing for her sucks ass.

[mansonlamps]

Don't you think Kate feels responsible for Jack's death because she was the one who encouraged him to make the drive to see Rebecca which then resulted in their splitting up?  She, as a teen and not being there for the fight, wouldn't know there was a lot more in play and out was probably inevitable.  Anyway, assuming Jack dies while living away from home, I could see where Kate blames herself.

Although if my dad left every time my parents had one of those awful button-pushing arguments, we would have never seen him, sad to say.

[Crs97]

Don't know any of Mandy's music.  Never saw any of her movies (except "Tangled" - does that count?).  I think she is fine here.  Certainly fits in with everyone else.  Here is my UO: I am not blown away by anyone's acting.  They all range from decent to good.  I might give young William a very good.   The writing holds them all back.

[HeyThere83]

6 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

Don't know any of Mandy's music.  Never saw any of her movies (except "Tangled" - does that count?).  I think she is fine here.  Certainly fits in with everyone else.  Here is my UO: I am not blown away by anyone's acting.  They all range from decent to good.  I might give young William a very good.   The writing holds them all back.

You beat me to it. Nothing special about the acting here. I have always thought Mandy is OK. Always thought Justin was not good. I enjoy Sterling. Milo isn't doing anything special. So yeah....overall, this is yet another thing I need to put in the unpop thread.

[possibilities]

The only thing I ever saw Mandy Moore in before was a guest role as one of J.D.'s girlfriends on Scrubs (she lasted a few episodes and her character was annoying to J.D. because he didn't like her laugh or something). I had no idea she had been a singer or anything else. I have big gaps in my awareness of popular culture.

I think people have given very specific plot-related reasons for siding with Rebecca in some situations, and against her in others.

Do people who like Jack just think he and his greasy hair are hot, and haven't gotten over his bare ass from the pilot? Are they hanging on to nostalgia for Heroes or Gilmore Girls, and that's the only reason they like him on This Is Us? I doubt it. There are in-show arguments being made on all sides.

I have no trouble thinking we can disagree on values and have different opinions based on what we're actually seeing. After all, people differ in real life, on everything from who they vote for to what kind of food they like. Why wouldn't it happen when people watch a TV show? It think it's pretty insulting to think that viewers are unable to watch the actual show they're watching, think critically, and come up with conclusions based on what they see before them. Just because we don't agree on everything, doesn't mean we're a bunch of dimwitted hormonal teenagers incapable of critical thinking and unable to respond to what we're seeing portrayed before us in a lucid way.

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

I also don't think Milo is all that either.  I find his voice alone irritating.  It almost sounds like he's purposefully trying to make his voice in a lower register and it feels inauthentic.

I hear ya on that bit about his voice.  I thought he was hot early in the season but not really anymore due to the combination of reading douchey remarks from the actor in the media and the character being annoying to me.  All I knew him from was Heroes and I like his shaggy look better than that emo look.  But now he does stuff like go on talk shows and says stuff like "focus on Jack's life, not his death" and it makes me roll my eyes.

I've only seen Mandy in Entourage playing herself, as a girlfriend to the main character.  I had no opinion of her since I don't know her from anything else.  And how hard is it to play yourself.  

Edited March 19, 2017 by Guest

[OtterMommy]

26 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I hear ya on that bit about his voice.  I thought he was hot early in the season but not really anymore due to the combination of reading douchey remarks from the actor in the media and the character being annoying to me.  All I knew him from was Heroes and I like his shaggy look better than that emo look.  But now he does stuff like go on talk shows and says stuff like "focus on Jack's life, not his death" and it makes me roll my eyes.

I've only seen Mandy in Entourage playing herself, as a girlfriend to the main character.  I had no opinion of her since I don't know her from anything else.  And how hard is it to play yourself.  

Taking this to the Rebecca thread.... (Not this quote in particular....)

[AmandaPanda]

Please follow @OtterMommy's lead and take discussion of Rebecca to the Rebecca thread. Keep the episode thread only to discussions of the actual episode. Please and thank you. 

[Clanstarling]

3 hours ago, laurakaye said:

This might be the wrong thread...but if Fogelman was looking for "average," I think Milo fits the bill just fine.

+++1.  One small scene that bothered the crap out of me was when J & R threw that huge birthday party for their triplets and all of their friends, and in the midst of the chaos, stopped to make out and "sweet monologue" each other in the living room.  Um...no freaking way.  You have that many young kids in your house?  You'd be pulling your hair out trying to keep an eye on all of them.  And I felt that the sole purpose for that scene was so that one little boy could spy them smooching and say, "gross."  Which was meant to reinforce how sweet and lovey Jack and Rebecca were to each other.  No, just no.  For realism's sake, the two could've met in the kitchen, looked at each other and laughed in a "what the hell were we thinking with this party?' kind of manner, quickly kissed and said, "okay, you take the living room, I'll take the backyard."

I feel you. Once when my mother attended the birthday party of one of my daughters, she told me about giving a birthday party for me when I was in kindergarten - 30 some kids, and none of the mothers stayed. No dad there to help out either. I was horrified. Even the smallish parties I had for a single child were exhausting as heck.

2 hours ago, mansonlamps said:

Don't you think Kate feels responsible for Jack's death because she was the one who encouraged him to make the drive to see Rebecca which then resulted in their splitting up?  She, as a teen and not being there for the fight, wouldn't know there was a lot more in play and out was probably inevitable.  Anyway, assuming Jack dies while living away from home, I could see where Kate blames herself.

That's my take on it too.

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

The only thing I ever saw Mandy Moore in before was a guest role as one of J.D.'s girlfriends on Scrubs (she lasted a few episodes and her character was annoying to J.D. because he didn't like her laugh or something). I had no idea she had been a singer or anything else. I have big gaps in my awareness of popular culture.

I think people have given very specific plot-related reasons for siding with Rebecca in some situations, and against her in others.

Do people who like Jack just think he and his greasy hair are hot, and haven't gotten over his bare ass from the pilot? Are they hanging on to nostalgia for Heroes or Gilmore Girls, and that's the only reason they like him on This Is Us? I doubt it. There are in-show arguments being made on all sides.

I have no trouble thinking we can disagree on values and have different opinions based on what we're actually seeing. After all, people differ in real life, on everything from who they vote for to what kind of food they like. Why wouldn't it happen when people watch a TV show? It think it's pretty insulting to think that viewers are unable to watch the actual show they're watching, think critically, and come up with conclusions based on what they see before them. Just because we don't agree on everything, doesn't mean we're a bunch of dimwitted hormonal teenagers incapable of critical thinking and unable to respond to what we're seeing portrayed before us in a lucid way.

My own opinion is that we're pulled into a show by certain actors sometimes, and will have an initial "bond" (for lack of a better word coming to mind) with his/her character.

But after the initial phase, I agree that the vast majority can separate the actor from the character and make opinions based on what's on the screen (while wistfully admiring a nice ass here and there).

For the most part, even when I disagree, the posts are interesting and am engaged when I read them.

[DrSpaceman73]

4 hours ago, mansonlamps said:

Don't you think Kate feels responsible for Jack's death because she was the one who encouraged him to make the drive to see Rebecca which then resulted in their splitting up?  She, as a teen and not being there for the fight, wouldn't know there was a lot more in play and out was probably inevitable.  Anyway, assuming Jack dies while living away from home, I could see where Kate blames herself.

Although if my dad left every time my parents had one of those awful button-pushing arguments, we would have never seen him, sad to say.

I have no idea.  Probably not though, I think the show is just teasing us with different things and just stringing this out as long as possible, much like How I Met your Mother did for many years with many things. 

This is starting to feel like How I Killed My Father with Kate. 

[jhlipton]

21 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

This says there are two new co-show runners for season 2 and they're two different people from the two that came up above when I googled the show's writers.  http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/is-us-elevates-duo-showrunners-season-2-983322

14 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

This is starting to feel like How I Killed My Father with Kate. 

They traded two black showrunners for two white showrunners -- ones who were working on a How I Met Your Mother spinoff (now not likely to happen)..  That explains a lot.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, jhlipton said:

They traded two black showrunners for two white showrunners -- ones who were working on a How I Met Your Mother spinoff (now not likely to happen)..  That explains a lot.

That's pretty funny.  What makes it worse is the two white writers only worked on three episodes, and to me they're three of the worst:  Moonshadow, Pilgrim Rick and Jack Pearson's Son, whereas the black writers wrote on all 17, at least per IMDB.  

I haven't watched any of the prior shows this duo wrote on:  Grandfathered, About a Boy, The Neighbors.  Are they all cancelled?  

[biakbiak]

1 minute ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I haven't watched any of the prior shows this duo wrote on:  Grandfathered, About a Boy, The Neighbors.  Are they all cancelled?  

Yes.

Imdb I'd notoriously unreliable on writing credits.

[Guest]

Thanks.  There were three other shows for each I'd never heard of, so if correct, that makes them 0 for 6 on past series?  Maybe that's normal. though.  

[mostlylurking]

On 3/14/2017 at 10:21 PM, betha said:

Pretty sure that is exactly what she's trying to do! I think the tour was going to be fulfilling for her. 

I agree with this!  Rebecca was trying to get back into singing since that was something she loved and put on the back burner to take care of her children.  Now that they are teenagers, she was going for it.  I don't think she ever thought she would become a star.  She just wanted to sing.  Jack was so dismissive of that.

The fight they had when they got home was very real.  Yelling, talking over each other, not making any sense, etc.  Yep, been there!

With regards to the fact that Milo and Mandy are not parents in real life, I don't think that really matters.  I mean, it's acting.  Actors play doctors, criminals, people of different nationalities with different accents, etc.  I don't think playing parents is any different than playing any other role that you do not fill in real life.  It's a part of the job.  Actors also can play deadbeat parents while being loving parents in real life, or vice versa.  It's all about the caliber of the actor and of course the material they are given to play.

That last little monologue was tough to watch.  I think Rebecca gets the short end of the stick, as unfortunately a lot of women do.  Jack gets cut a lot of slack.  They have both behaved badly at certain times.  Such is marriage and parenting, and just life.

I do not think they will get back together.  I think Jack will die before that happens.  That made it even sadder for me.

[jhlipton]

4 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I haven't watched any of the prior shows this duo wrote on:  Grandfathered,

Taking this to In the Media

[3 is enough]

Quote

I have no idea.  Probably not though, I think the show is just teasing us with different things and just stringing this out as long as possible, much like How I Met your Mother did for many years with many things. 

This is starting to feel like How I Killed My Father with Kate. 

I was just going to say that a week later, I am still feeling vaguely pissed off that we didn't some answer in the finale- either when or how.  Comparing This is Us to How I Met Your Mother is something I have done more than a few times.

Ok show, you had your cliffhanger season finale.  Now for the love of God, do not drag this on endlessly in season 2.  We all know Jack dies- the knowledge of when and how will not drive viewers away.  In fact, the endless wondering if THIS is going to be the episode we find out is wearing a bit thin.  

There are still plenty of stories to tell, including flashbacks.  

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, 3 is enough said:

Quote

I have no idea.  Probably not though, I think the show is just teasing us with different things and just stringing this out as long as possible, much like How I Met your Mother did for many years with many things. 

This is starting to feel like How I Killed My Father with Kate. 

I was just going to say that a week later, I am still feeling vaguely pissed off that we didn't some answer in the finale- either when or how.  Comparing This is Us to How I Met Your Mother is something I have done more than a few times.

Ok show, you had your cliffhanger season finale.  Now for the love of God, do not drag this on endlessly in season 2.  We all know Jack dies- the knowledge of when and how will not drive viewers away.  In fact, the endless wondering if THIS is going to be the episode we find out is wearing a bit thin.  

Also, we know the ending of that show was a giant disappointment because

Spoiler

the real title should have been "Why it is a good idea for me to date your Aunt Robin"

Also, eff the showrunner for blaming the audience for being interested in Jack's death, not life.  They are the ones teasing out everything in hopes that it will keep us tuning in to the program.  I am starting not to care, particularly if it is going to lead to bad writing.

What do we know about Kate after the first season:

1. She struggles with her weight

2. She might have inadvertently killed her father, who she loved dearly

3. The second thing probably is a source of the first thing

They have cast actresses in the role of young Kate on the chubbier side, but no where in the range of obesity that Kate is now.  Are we supposed to infer that the guilt and trauma of Jack's death lead to this dramatic weight gain?  I have a feeling that is what the writers are hoping for.  They think they have a sure fire hook and teasing it out is just going to make this show ridiculous.

[HeyThere83]

16 minutes ago, qtpye said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

the real title should have been "Why it is a good idea for me to date your Aunt Robin"

Also, eff the showrunner for blaming the audience for being interested in Jack's death, not life.  They are the ones teasing out everything in hopes that it will keep us tuning in to the program. 

Straight from Dan Fogelman's mouth was that he didn't want to reveal the circumstances surrounding his death that soon because he wanted to have something to keep audiences waiting, coming back. So this is total and complete BS. A criticism was directed at his perfect werfect wittle show and so he decides to blame the audience and act as though they just don't know good writing.

[maddie965]

I just binge-watched the whole thing and would love to discuss the first season as a whole. Is there a place for that? Thanks.

[NutMeg]

Not sure where to post this, because it's more season specific than episode specific.

When the season/series started, it blew me away. I was interested in every character, and I wanted to see how they would all develop.

I very much enjoyed the flashbacks, because they helped us understand so much how these characters became who they were when we first met them.

And for a while I continued to be blown away, both by the current situation and the flashbacks. It all seemed very real, very relatable, very cathartic to relate.

And then it stopped. I'm not sure why, or when. Kate's story of self discovery at that place fizzled. Kevin's angst as a young kid and teenager never got any realistic outcome. Randall got a lot of focus, and the actor playing him is excellent, but that story sucked the hell out of the others. Of course William was great (and kudos to the actor), but I was sold this as a family story, not a one-member-of-the-family story. That shift didn't help the character the show writers were focusing on either, because I increasingly saw him as unrealistic and expecting everyone to tow the line and help his story, which shouldn't have been the case after what the pilot sold us.

And then, after the finale, I realised that there were so many characters that had been underdeveloped or given unrealistic stories that what had started as excellent got a very mediocre end grade in my mind. It's a shame, because there was so much potential. There still is, but the direction this has been going these last few episodes is not making me hopeful.  

Edited March 25, 2017 by NutMeg
I saw one typo, probably missed more

[OtterMommy]

3 hours ago, NutMeg said:

Not sure where to post this, because it's more season specific than episode specific.

When the season/series started, it blew me away. I was interested in every character, and I wanted to see how they would all develop.

I very much enjoyed the flashbacks, because they helped us understand so much how these characters became who they were when we first met them.

And for a while I continued to be blown away, both by the current situation and the flashbacks. It all seemed very real, very relatable, very cathartic to relate.

And then it stopped. I'm not sure why, or when. Kate's story of self discovery at that place fizzled. Kevin's angst as a young kid and teenager never got any realistic outcome. Randall got a lot of focus, and the actor playing him is excellent, but that story sucked the hell out of the others. Of course William was great (and kudos to the actor), but I was sold this as a family story, not a one-member-of-the-family story. That shift didn't help the character the show writers were focusing on either, because I increasingly saw him as unrealistic and expecting everyone to tow the line and help his story, which shouldn't have been the case after what the pilot sold us.

And then, after the finale, I realised that there were so many characters that had been underdeveloped or given unrealistic stories that what had started as excellent got a very mediocre end grade in my mind. It's a shame, because there was so much potential. There still is, but the direction this has been going these last few episodes is not making me hopeful.  

I can totally get on board with this. I thought the series premiere was gold (okay, maybe silver....bronze?  It was really good,that's what I'm trying to say).  And there have been some very good episodes since then--but there have also been some clunkers.  I also started to notice warning signs here and there, that I sort of filed away because then something really good would happen or we'd get an especially strong episode.  And, honestly, eps 16 and 17 were fabulous--maybe not as strong as the premiere, but more than enough to remind me of the potential of this show.

Then we get to the season finale and it fell flat...badly.  As I said in another thread, a friend of mine (a huge fan of this show....cried in *almost* every episode) pointed out that this was not a season finale...it was a season premiere.  Not a great season premiere, in my opinion--but definitely NOT a season finale.  With this, two things happened for me:

1 - I felt like the rug had been pulled out from under me on this show (not that I necessarily needed to know how Jack died.  At this point, I just really don't care.  But I did need an actual season finale).

2 - All those little red flags and warnings that I had tucked away in my mind regarding this show all came right back to the forefront.  Now, I am at the point where I recognize that this show has had some amazing *moments*-some moments being a fraction of a scene and some being an entire episode--but the show itself is, and has always been, a bit problematic.

I'm still going to tune in for season 2--unless I get some pretty stellar shows next season, there will still be room for this one--but I'm no longer at a place where I trust Fogelman and whoever else to be able to steer the ship safely through the channel, so to speak.

And that is not where you want a season finale to leave you.

[SueB]

@maddie965 and @NutMeg, I just made an "All Seasons Thread".  If you have a topic you want to talk about there, I'm game!

Go HERE

[3jt]

I don't think that Jack has jealously issues, I think that he was pissed to find out that the dude in the band was an ex-boyfriend, and to find out from said dude. That would piss me off too. If you aren't honest with your spouse and they find out something like that they start to wonder what the hell else you're not telling them. Been there, done that.

[MaryPatShelby]

On 3/16/2017 at 7:02 AM, Johnny Dollar said:

I've been bugging Mrs Dollar with Jack and Rebecca's ages in the various timelines. The wedding invitation that Rebecca received showed the year that they met as 1972. Jack's father mentioned his worthless son was 28, meaning he was born in 1944. Later, when Jack and Rebecca had the big blow up, Jack mentioned that she was a forty year old mother. Since the kids were born in 1980 and seem to be about 15 at the time, the year of the fight was around 1995, meaning Rebecca was born circa 1955. So, Jack was a very hot looking 51 and Rebecca was a very hot looking 40 when they had the fight. However, it also means that when they first met Jack was 28, and Rebecca had to be 17 or 18, despite her friends being already married. Sorry, Mandy Moore, but you can't pass for a teenager.

Maybe this is a UO, but does anyone think there's a valid reason that the show won't put a chyron on the screen telling us what year the particular scene is happening in?  All these calculations and catching brief glimpses of props that we have to do seem nuts; I don't want to have to do math while I watch or do homework after. A nice "1986" on the screen would enhance my enjoyment of the show and keep me focused on the story.

[OtterMommy]

3 minutes ago, MaryPatShelby said:

Maybe this is a UO, but does anyone think there's a valid reason that the show won't put a chyron on the screen telling us what year the particular scene is happening in?  All these calculations and catching brief glimpses of props that we have to do seem nuts; I don't want to have to do math while I watch or do homework after. A nice "1986" on the screen would enhance my enjoyment of the show and keep me focused on the story.

They have given hints in certain episodes (there was an ornament on the tree for the Christmas episode, for example).  However, it might work in their advantage to keep things a bit "timeless."  However, that depends on them getting their chronology right.

[SlovakPrincess]

Eh.

I love Randall, but how are they going to adopt a child when they already have two kids and he just quit his job and Beth isn't back to working full time yet?   

And Kate is going to pursue her dream of singing!  I love Kate, too, but one sibling chasing their "dream!" in one episode is more than enough.  

Kevin didn't really have much of a story, but I did enjoy the random Ron Howard sighting.

The Rebecca and Jack stuff was fine, I guess.  But I prefer the flashbacks with the kids - the episode at the public pool was one of my favorites.

[Big Mother]

I am watching this weeks after it aired, so my take is probably the same that has been repeat for 11 pages. But I feel I have to get my 'review' of the episode off my chest. Therapy, if you will.

This was so hard to watch. By the last scene I was crying hard.

Rebecca was so incredibly mean to Jack. The entire episode was one big miscommunication. And who was she to kick her wonderful, loving, adoring husband to the curb? How about letting him talk? She was treating him like a child. I wanted to hang my head along with Jack.

The only wrong thing Jack did was drink. Other than that, he was the loving supportive husband who even went out to the club to watch her sing. And she treated him so horribly.  She made a unilateral decision that they should separate. It was completely unneccessary. They could've cooled off while staying in the same house.

At the end, when Jack was professing his undying love to Rebecca, I was sure she would jump up and beg him to stay. We didn't see a deterioriation in their marriage over time; all this fighting was just over a few days, maybe weeks. Is that a reason to separate? It made me so upset.

I have a weird feeling that this is the last we are going to see of Rebecca and Jack together. That Jack will somehow die before they can reconcile. And that the last Kate saw of her father was when she begged him in the car to go to the club. And that's why she's mad at Rebecca.

I really, really don't like Rebecca right now.

It was great to see the origin story of Rebecca and Jack though. Young Jack was so delicious and attractive and handsome. and he's been Miguel's friend for YEARS. It was interesting to see them two as young friends.

Since I watched this weeks later and knew Jack didn't die in this episode, I didn't spend the entire episode tensed up like so many others, waiting for him to die. I enjoyed it for itself. It just ended on such a sad note, I can't believe we have to wait almost six months to find out what happens next.

After I finished drying my tears I absorbed the one big lesson of This is Us. That it's time to stop focusing on trivialities and focus on what's truly important in life. Rebecca just let a treasure slip out of her hands. And she will regret it.

Sigh.

Time to go read eleven pages now just to get another fix of This is Us, for the next few months...

Okay, now that I've given it a minute, I'm realizing that Rebecca was boiling, hopping, unforgivably mad at jack for messing up her 2-week tour. She thought she had to drive him home bc he was drunk, giving up her dream tour.

But that was wrong! She wasn't responsible for driving him back. He couldve booked into a hotel and driven himself back in the morning. After all, the kids were sleeping at friends overnight. but she didn't even bother asking!

on the other hand, I think she was disgusted with Ben's behavior and was secretly glad to hightail it out of there.

i am still so flummoxed why she had to kick her husband out of the house over this disagreement. He wasn't abusive to her. He was obviously apologetic. You don't kick a man when he's down. And this means he won't see his kids either, and we all know how much his kids adore him.

Ugh. This show feels so real. :D

[ShadowFacts]

6 hours ago, Big Mother said:

It was great to see the origin story of Rebecca and Jack though. Young Jack was so delicious and attractive and handsome. and he's been Miguel's friend for YEARS. It was interesting to see them two as young friends.

That wasn't Miguel in the younger Jack scenes -- that friend was named Darryl, I think.  It's two different friends.

 

6 hours ago, Big Mother said:

The only wrong thing Jack did was drink. Other than that, he was the loving supportive husband who even went out to the club to watch her sing. And she treated him so horribly.  She made a unilateral decision that they should separate. It was completely unneccessary. They could've cooled off while staying in the same house.

I agree with this, it was a bridge too far.  It didn't make much sense.  After all that he said, and the fact that we've seen how they normally seem to function, that step was too much.  I wouldn't go so far as to say the only wrong thing Jack did was drink, but Rebecca's kicking him out didn't work for me, either.

[Katy M]

8 hours ago, SlovakPrincess said:

I love Randall, but how are they going to adopt a child when they already have two kids and he just quit his job and Beth isn't back to working full time yet?   

Are you suggesting that having time to spend with adopted children is a bad thing?

[Kohola3]

8 hours ago, Big Mother said:

The only wrong thing Jack did was drink.

Um, what?  A father of three drinks himself into a stupor, drives drunk and possibly kills himself and other people?  And then attacks a guy who had a couple of months of dating his wife when she was still a teenager?  He acted like a total ass.

 

7 hours ago, Big Mother said:

He could've booked into a hotel and driven himself back in the morning.

In my vast experience with alcoholics, that's not realistic.  Obviously (as many of them do) he felt he was perfectly fine to drive himself there.  He wasn't going to suddenly come to the realization that he was impaired and should sleep it off first.  Drunks don't have that kind of reasoning power.  It's to her credit that she recognized that.  She gave up her chance (it's unimportant how big it was, only that it was big to her) to get him home safely. 

[OtterMommy]

6 hours ago, Katy M said:

Are you suggesting that having time to spend with adopted children is a bad thing?

I don't think the OP is suggesting that.  I think the suggestion is that a family with one parent not working, and the other parent could be considered under-employed, and two existing kids may not be the ideal family in the eyes of an adoption agency.  (Of course, they do have money AND, if they were adopting through the foster system, this may not be much of an issue).

[laurakaye]

14 hours ago, SlovakPrincess said:

I love Randall, but how are they going to adopt a child when they already have two kids and he just quit his job and Beth isn't back to working full time yet?   

And Kate is going to pursue her dream of singing!  I love Kate, too, but one sibling chasing their "dream!" in one episode is more than enough.  

Kevin didn't really have much of a story, but I did enjoy the random Ron Howard sighting.

Regarding Randall: what about the scene where Randall and Beth were sitting on the floor and she was taking a pregnancy test because she hadn't been feeling well?  The test was negative, but what were we supposed to take away from that...she just had a tummy ache?  Or are we supposed to file that away in our brains because something is going to happen to her in season 2?  That's why I don't know what to take away from Randall suddenly wanting to adopt, because he sure wasn't too fired up about Beth possibly being pregnant.

Kate: what exactly does she do all day?  We saw her working for Jamie Gertz one time.  Does she still work there?  So now she's going to sing...how does that work?  She could barely croak out one song in the retirement home.  Her storyline was so fuzzy and strange.  I don't know her at all.

Kevin: Ron Howard produces amazing movies.  Kevin is no Tom Hanks, Bill Paxton or Russell Crowe.  The fact that he was the equivalent of one of the Full House guys, slept with every female associated with his play (which he then bailed on)...this guy gets a call from Ron Howard?  Come on.

So many threads left dangling, and not really in a good way because I keep getting a sense that if the writers feel like a storyline isn't working, they will simply drop it and pretend like it never happened, and look for the next big drama that will get everyone crying again.

[OtterMommy]

5 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

Kate: what exactly does she do all day?  We saw her working for Jamie Gertz one time.  Does she still work there?  So now she's going to sing...how does that work?  She could barely croak out one song in the retirement home.  Her storyline was so fuzzy and strange.  I don't know her at all.

She no longer works for Jamie Gertz.  In this episode, right before Kate said she wanted to pursue singing, Toby made a comment about her calling her boss and getting her old job back (and I'm assuming he wasn't talking about Kevin).  Now, as to why she is no longer working for her--I guess we can only assume that took too much time off at Christmas?

Quote

So many threads left dangling, and not really in a good way because I keep getting a sense that if the writers feel like a storyline isn't working, they will simply drop it and pretend like it never happened, and look for the next big drama that will get everyone crying again.

So much this.  One thing that I really like to see when I watch TV (and, admittedly, it doesn't happen often), is a "tight" show.  I don't want extraneous characters or story lines or, worse, dropped story lines and plot holes.  One thing that attracted me to this show in the first couple of episodes is it looked like it would be tight.  Yeah, there was a lot going on, but I felt that the show runners had it under control.  

I was wrong.  This is quickly becoming a very leaky ship.

[lunaseas1122]

8 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

 

Kevin: Ron Howard produces amazing movies.  Kevin is no Tom Hanks, Bill Paxton or Russell Crowe.  The fact that he was the equivalent of one of the Full House guys, slept with every female associated with his play (which he then bailed on)...this guy gets a call from Ron Howard?  Come on.

 

Ron Howard has made some good films, but he's also made some crap. He hasn't had a HUGE hit in a number of years, and one of his more current efforts starred Kevin James. I think we can believe that our Kevin is at least as good, and certainly a lot more attractive, than Kevin James. And I don't think Ron Howard was offering him a lead role...just a part in a film. I don't have a terribly hard time believing it, or anyway, there's plenty more about the show I have issues with than this.

[biakbiak]

3 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

She no longer works for Jamie Gertz.  In this episode, right before Kate said she wanted to pursue singing, Toby made a comment about her calling her boss and getting her old job back (and I'm assuming he wasn't talking about Kevin).  Now, as to why she is no longer working for her--I guess we can only assume that took too much time off at Christmas?

Which really makes one wonder, it seems weird to cast Jamie Gertz and someone to play her daughter and for just a one episode, particularly when theyou were showing the similarities between Kate and the daughter and then just drop the whole thing. It seems like poor season planning on behalf of the writers.